Shiny Happy People star Chad Harris joins us on this episode to discuss the latest developments in the Joe/Kendra Duggar cases. We discuss the potentially fake documents published by Katie Joy of the YouTube Channel "Without a Crystal Ball," the Joe/Kendra Duggar phone call, statements made by Jinger/Jeremy, and Jason/Maddie. In the third segment we answer listener questions about the arrests, about the Duggars, and about the IBLP in general.

These are the two appeals to loss of parental rights cases we mentioned in the episode.

https://law.justia.com/cases/arkansas/court-of-appeals/2025/cv-24-747.html

https://law.justia.com/cases/arkansas/court-of-appeals/2025/cv-25-38.html

00:00 - Intro

01:44 - Subscribe to our Patreon!

02:20 - NO VICTIM SPECULATION

02:45 - Katie Joy and the fake(?) court documents

04:50 - What is a trusted source?

08:04 - Josh got visitation with his kids

11:02 - Thank you to our patrons!

12:48 - Statement from Jinger and Jeremy

15:40 - Statement from Jason and Maddie

19:50 - IBLP fails young men

22:00 - Phone call between Joe and Kendra

24:58 - Kendra is in a difficult spot

29:25 - Every home is a cult and every father is a cult leader

30:23 - Why do we talk about this? The stakes are high!

34:53 - Listener Questions! 35:17 - 6th amendment rights

37:35 - Why did Jim Bob want to be on TV?

40:47 - Child Endangerment Clarification

45:08 - What if the Duggars were allowed to date?

47:29 - Gothardism and Jim Bob's trauma

53:54 - Why are all the Duggar daughters social media influencers?

55:35 - Did Jim Bob and Michelle reconsider their choices?

55:58 - Why do the women stay?

57:50 - How to bring down the IBLP

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In this episode, we discuss the continuing fallout from Joseph Duggar's arrest for child molestation, including Kendra Duggar's Child Endangerment/False Imprisonment charges, our breakdown of these charges, family statements made by/on behalf of Duggar family members, and our speculation on whether or not this case will go to trial.

In the extended patreon edition, we discuss in greater detail our impressions of Amy Duggar after our (limited) interactions with her when she was a guest on our show while promoting her book.

CW for discussion of CSA and CSAM

AT NO POINT will we be speculating on the identity of the victim.

02:00 - Kendra Duggar Arrested!

02:52 - Please subscribe and join our Patreon!

04:28 - Tonitown police file charges

06:45 - What "Unrelated" means

07:40 - WE ARE NOT LAWYERS

07:55 - Endangering the Welfare of a Minor

10:05 - New Information about Joe's Confession

11:40 - Our Original Theory

12:22 - Locks on the doors?

13:40 - Unsecured Firearms

14:40 - False Imprisonment

14:50 - Jason does not use power tools safely

16:30 - IBLP and Cult of Personality

16:50 - Magical Thinking

17:35 - How serious are Kendra's charges?

24:44 - Thank you to our Patrons!

26:19 - Jill and Derick Dillard's statement

29:48 - Jessa and Ben Seewald's Statement

30:22 - Amy Duggar King's Statement

31:41 - Amy's book plug

35:40 - Access and Accountability

37:59 - People who deconstruct and stay Christian

40:40 - Josh Duggar's Statement

46:03 - Joseph Duggar's Phone Call

47:20 - Jim Bob is running everything

48:44 - Will there be a trial?

49:04 - Can you imagine being Michelle Duggar?

51:17 - No statement from Jim Bob and Michelle

52:27 - We hope the victim's name never comes out

54:55 - Megyn Kelly is not a real journalist

55:57 - We hope the stories of survivors continue to be taken seriously

57:29 - Should Christians pay taxes?

55:29 - Should Christians pay taxes?

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n this special episode, we discuss the charges filed against former 19 Kids and Counting/Counting On star Joseph Duggar. Duggar is accused of committing Lewd and Lascivious Behavior, involving unlawful sexual activity with a minor. He has been taken into custody. The alleged molestation occurred some time in 2020. In this episode we discuss everything that we currently know, everything we don't know, the circumstances of the abuse, and then we answer listener questions.

This episode contains discussions of child sexual abuse as well as discussion of Joseph's brother Josh's 2021 trial and conviction for possession of CSAM. This episode is not appropriate for children.

Nowhere in this episode do we speculate about the identity of the victim, and we will not allow comments that do.

Facebook post from Bay County Sheriff's Office

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1EoDDDy9qY/

Reddit post with pictures of Joe and Kendra at Panama City Beach dated to October 11

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/1rxk6ty/my_parents_2020_beach_vacation/

Oxford University article about genetic predisposition to being an abuser

https://www.psych.ox.ac.uk/news/sex-offending-genes-more-important-than-family-environment

02:00 - Joe Duggar has been arrested

02:54 - Welcome to our show

03:10 - CW for CSA and CSAM discussion

04:20 - Consider joining our Patreon!

05:00 - BCSO Facebook Post

06:50 - Poor Kendra

07:53 - What is Joe charged with?

08:36 - What is a Life Felony?

09:46 - Joe's Apology

11:35 - Purity Pledge

12:34 - Will there be a trial?

17:48 - Thank you to our Patrons!

19:17 - What is the timeline?

20:04 - Raid on the Duggar car lot

20:45 - Counting the Cost by Jill Duggar Dillard

22:26 - Holy Disruptor by Amy Duggar King

24:20 - Jim Bob lied to the family

24:55 - Reddit Pictures on the beach

25:30 - Who was in Panama City Beach?

27:40 - Apologies to the victim's father?

28:15 - Homeland Security and US Marshals

31:27 - Kendra was pregnant

31:50 - Why did Joe Apologize?

32:50 - You are your father's property

34:20 - Did Kendra know?

35:12 - Will Kendra stay or go?

35:30 - Sadie's angry rant

37:43 - Question 1: Have we seen signs from Joe? Joe/Kendra age gap

38:54 - Sadie attended the wedding of a child bride

41:15 - Question 2: How does this keep happening in this family?

42:46 - Women are property, like livestock

44:50 - Limiting access and adding accountability prevents abuse

47:07 - Question 3: We know nothing about the victim or their family

48:11 - Question 4: Did this follow the same pattern as Josh's cover-up?

49:40 - Questions 5 and 6, Social media and Can Kendra Leave because Joe admitted his crime?

52:01 - Question 7: Purity Culture

52:42 - Question 8: Will this change fundie culture?

54:14 - Question 9: Genetics and Grandpa Duggar

55:35 - If there is a trial we will cover it!

Subscribe to Leaving Eden Podcast on YouTube!

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In today's episode, Sadie tells us all about Hyles-Anderson College, the fundamentalist cult bible college that she enrolled in as an 18-year-old. We discuss the reason why a cult would want to have a college, the history of the school, what gets taught in classes at Hyles-Anderson, the school rules, and the predatory financial programs the school uses to keep students from dropping out or leaving.

02:00 - What do they teach you at cult college?

02:30 - Marriage and Motherhood degree

02:52 - Join the Patreon for all of the bonus content!

03:36 - Why do cults need a college?

04:30 - Hyles-Anderson College

04:53 - Listen to Sadie's interview on Preacher Boys Podcast with Eric Skwarczynski

05:05 - Jack Hyles

05:25 - Russell Anderson

05:55 - Other Christian Colleges were TOO SOFT

06:05 - Fundamentalism youth pipeline

06:50 - Boot Camp for Christian workers

08:15 - Business model of Hyles-Anderson College

10:00 - The IFB connection to the unjustified killing of Breonna Taylor

10:15 - HAC is unaccredited

15:47 - Thank you to all of our patrons!

17:12 - What is in the curriculum?

17:40 - YOUR BODY IS NOT YOUR OWN BY JOBETH HOOKER

21:40 - Scum Manifesto

22:20 - Christian Womanhood

23:12 - Preparation for Marriage Class

23:40 - David and Jonathan

24:20 - Give your husband a standing ovation when he comes home or he will cheat on you with his secretary

26:54 - Other classes at cult college

27:30 - HAC is basically Sea Org/Scientology

28:40 - Bible Class

30:13 - Steven Anderson and the NIFB

32:45 - The rules of cult college

34:35 - Dress Code

38:40 - Demerit system

38:55 - Tiered justice system and nepotism

39:40 - Sadie almost got expelled!

41:40 - How are the rules enforced?

42:10 - The Jericho Plan

42:55 - This scheme is probably illegal

43:50 - The Bait and Switch

Subscribe to Leaving Eden Podcast on YouTube!

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Join our Patreon for extended, uncensored, and ad-free versions of most of our episodes, as well as other patron perks and bonus content!

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Sadie takes us through the five categories of Crazy Fundie Rules, and how these rules affect your life when you are trying to live by them. Some of them have biblical justifications, some of them are completely made up by some pastor somewhere and ended up being widely adopted. Fundie pastors use these rules as a way to physically and psychologically control church members, and they can be quite draconian.

What are the most arbitrary rules that your church had growing up? Let us know in the comments!

02:00 - Is it a sin to walk down the beer aisle in the grocery store?

02:23 - Proverbs 23:31

02:40 - Genesis 3:1-3

03:07 - Crazy Fundie Rules

03:52 - Join our Patreon!

04:37 - The 5 Categories

05:40 - Category 1

05:50 - Prohibition on Tattoos

06:55 - Carl Lentz

07:12 - Pete Hegseth

07:22 - Jewish law vs. Christian Interpretation

10:30 - Joyce Meyer's tattoo

11:47 - Thank you to our patrons!

14:13 - Deuteronomy 22:5

16:45 - Deadmau5 and the Ferrari

17:02 - Why the Duggar Daughters didn't wear pants

18:15 - Coulottes vs. JNCO Jeans

19:59 - Jealousy is a sin, wanting to do a sin is a sin

21:30 - Fundie Women find a way to rebel

24:00 - Visibly religious people get harassed the most!

26:11 - Category 2

26:31 - Being suspected of sinning is a sin

27:04 - Jack Schaap's crimes

28:27 - Going to the movies is a sin

29:01 - Bee Movie and There Will Be Blood were in the movie theater at the same time

30:14 - Walking down the beer aisle is a sin

30:49 - Category 3

32:30 - Going to Six Flags is a sin

34:17 - Category 4

34:36 - Doing anything that you want to do is a sin

35:00 - Teen Soulwinning is the worst

36:00 - Holy Guilt Trip Batman

36:43 - Wanting a snickers bar is a sin

37:45 - Great Britain is full of heathens

39:00 - Wanting a pretty wife is a sin

40:00 - It is a sin to not be miserable

40:40 - Category 5

41:00 - Hosiery

Subscribe to Leaving Eden Podcast on YouTube!

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Join our Patreon for extended, uncensored, and ad-free versions of most of our episodes, as well as other patron perks and bonus content!

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Today, Gavi FINALLY gets to talk about his favorite topic, Jean Beaudrillard's "Simulacra and Simulation," which explains Hyperreality. "The Matrix" film is allegorical to the postmodern condition of Hyperreality. We discuss examples of simulacra, Hyperreality, and the history of how we (in the western canon) came to view the world this way. We discuss simulated reality as it relates to christian fundamentalism and the US.

If you have any thoughts, opinions, or questions about this topic (or corrections) please let us know either by comment or by emailing us at [email protected]! We would love to do a listener responses episdoe!

02:00 - Intro

02:20 - Black Mirror San Junipero

03:15 - The Matrix

03:30 - Elon Musk

03:48 - Mark Zuckerberg and the Metaverse

04:10 - Please subscribe to our Patreon!

04:40 - Media Theory and Philosophy

05:17 - I'm sorry for mixing up SimulaCRA and SimulaCRUM

05:47 - Jean Baudrillard's "Hyperreality"

06:04 - Simulacra and Simulation

07:10 - First Order Simulacrum

07:40 - Second Order Simulacrum

07:55 - Third Order Simulacrum, Hyperreality

08:29 - Fourth Order Simulacrum, or Pure Simulation

08:50 - Alexander Hamilton to Scamilton is Hyperreality

11:07 - Christian Nationalism and Hyperreality

12:54 - Hyperreality and Pure Simulation are curated reality

13:30 - Did Sadie grow up in a simulation?

13:50 - Kim Kardashian's butt broke the internet

14:54 - The 6 7 meme is proof that we are living in a simulation

15:30 - Doot Doot 6 7 by Skrilla

15:50 - Lamello Ball

16:00 - The 6 7 kid is Hyperreality and the meme is pure simulation

17:19 - Brainrot is hyperreality

18:50 - Thank you to our patrons!

20:17 - The Civil War and the birth of Modernism

21:50 - Modernist themes, truth comes from struggle and effort

22:17 - Upton Sinclair, The Jungle

22:30 - John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

22:50 - Gone With the Wind

24:00 - Little Women

24:34 - The Civil War, Transcendentalism, Naturalism

25:05 - The birth of postmodernism

25:15 - Dada art movement (dadaism)

25:26 - Anything can be a source of truth

25:30 - The gifts of postmodernism, Civil rights, LGBT rights, Women's Lib movement

25:55 - World War 2 and the nuclear age

27:10 - Love is Blind, Kobe Bryant, Fresh off the Boat, Scottish Independence referendum

28:45 - Absurdism, Memes, and Breadtube Spongebob

29:04 - The drawbacks of postmodernism

30:00 - Hyperreality, 9/11

31:22 - Loss of sense of self

32:04 - Michael Jackson, Prince, Robin Williams, George Carlin, Jesus, AI Deepfakes

32:35 - Leonard Cohen

32:50 - Bag Culture, Taylor Swift, Travis Kelce, Jason Kelce, Commercials

34:35 - Prince Harry and Meghan Markle

36:28 - Please email us!

37:01 - Our current state of Hyperreality

37:31 - Doctors vs. Anti-Vaxxers and influencers

37:41 - Teachers vs. Homeschoolers

38:07 - Doomerism

38:17 - It's going to be OK?

38:38 - The early church

38:50 - Jesus was a guy (probably?)

39:11 - The Disciples (first order Simulacrum)

39:22 - The Council of Nicaea (Second order Simulacrum)

39:40 - Church Tradition (Third Order Simulacra, or Hyperreality)

40:10 - Culture War/Kid Rock Turning Point USA halftime show

40:45 - Growing up in a cult vs. growing up in a simulation

41:04 - Destruction of the 2nd Temple happened, Revelation is a first order simulacrum

41:35 - Millerism, Adventism, Premillennial Pretribulationism are second order simulacra

41:45 - Protocols of the elders of Zion, A Thief in the Night, and Left Behind are all third order simulacra or Hyperreality

42:12 - The Holocaust, McCarthyism and the Red Scare, Satanic Panic, Q Anon, January 6, 2025 Rapture Hoax, are mass delusion brought on by pure simulation

44:20 - Hyperreality peaked in 2020

44:45 - The end of COVID-19 and the rise of AI

45:04 - What is coming next?

45:45 - AI CEOs are grifters

46:32 - Minor League Baseball

47:10 - 2020, Social Unrest, George Floyd protests, Anti-Mask/Vaxx

48:14 - Transcendentalism, Naturalism, humanity's relationship with nature, Oliver Wendel Holmes, Henry David Thoreau, Walt Whitman

50:29 - The next movement

Subscribe to Leaving Eden Podcast on YouTube!

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In this episode, Sadie takes us through two different theories of truth, and what it means for a statement to be true or not true. In using these two theories of truth, we discuss how anti-trans crusaders like Matt Walsh or Christian fundamentalist biblical literalists use bait-and-switch tactics to distort what their followers perceive as the truth. These bad faith arguments can be avoided by avoiding circular logic traps.

00:00 - Intro

00:47 - Patreon.Com/LeavingEdenPodcast is where the bonus content is!

01:30 - Is a hot dog a sandwich?

01:50 - We support trans people

02:05 - What is a post-truth society?

02:20 - Authoritarian populists like Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin

03:00 - Postmodernism

03:44 - The Philosophical Definition

04:39 - What is a woman?

05:00 - Caitlyn Jenner

05:30 - The correspondence theory of truth

06:45 - The coherence theory of truth

08:30 - Thank you to our wonderful patrons!

10:00 - Truth conforms to the entire ecosystem of other things that are true

10:10 - What is a sandwich?

10:54 - Matt Walsh argues in bad faith

12:45 - Bioessentialist transphobia does not hold up to scrutiny

13:22 - The King James Bible

15:15 - Hateful comments on social media

16:10 - The Bible is true because the bible says that the bible is true

16:20 - Cult control tactics and brainwashing

19:30 - Atheism vs. Religion debate

20:00 - Is personal experience evidence?

20:55 - Realism and Anti-Realism

22:22 - anti-realism

23:58 - Big questions

24:38 - Color theory

25:18 - Berlin and Kay's theory of Basic Color Terms

26:58 - WHAT COLOR IS SADIE'S HAIR?

28:27 - Sadie is the proof

30:03 - John Calvin profile pic

30:53 - Sadie once had a man

31:08 - Capitalism is the root of all christian misogyny (not actually)

33:38 - What is proof?

36:04 - Are we living in a simulation?

Subscribe to Leaving Eden Podcast on YouTube!

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Join our Patreon for extended, uncensored, and ad-free versions of most of our episodes, as well as other patron perks and bonus content!

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In this episode, Sadie takes us through the bizarre reasoning behind Fundamentalism's stipulation that the King James version is NOT ONLY the "best" version of the bible in English, but that it is actually not a translation, but God's own words, just as valid as the original texts in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. We also discuss how this belief leads to other fundie beliefs like quiverfull, and women wearing only skirts and no pants.

Support the show by going to Patreon.Com/LeavingEdenPodcast!

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Subscribe to Leaving Eden Podcast on YouTube!

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Join our Patreon for extended, uncensored, and ad-free versions of most of our episodes, as well as other patron perks and bonus content!

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In this episode, we review "Dating With a Purpose," which is an IFB purity culture dating manual targeted at teens and young adults in the IFB and at Hyles-Anderson college. It was written by Jack Schaap, who later went to prison for sexually abusing a child who was a student at the high school where he was chaplain.

We also discuss Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family's appearance in the Epstein files, and why abusers love purity culture so much.

Support the show by going to Patreon.Com/LeavingEdenPodcast!

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Subscribe to Leaving Eden Podcast on YouTube!

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Join our Patreon for extended, uncensored, and ad-free versions of most of our episodes, as well as other patron perks and bonus content!

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Sadie Carpenter tells us all about Soul Winning, the IFB practice of knocking on doors in order to witness to people and to get them to join your church. She tells us stories of trapping kids in the McDonald's PlayPlace, getting guns pulled on her, and we read through a soulwinning textbook that teaches how to witness to a Jewish person! We hope you enjoy!

Support the show by going to Patreon.Com/LeavingEdenPodcast!

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In this episode, we discuss what the early church actually was, and how Christianity was formed as much by Paul as it was by Jesus.

Citations for claims about the authorship of the bible:

1. Tabor, J. D. (2013). Paul and Jesus: how the Apostle transformed Christianity. Simon & Schuster.
2. Tabor, J. (2025, June 10). The quest for the historical paul. Biblical Archaeology Society. https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/people-in-the-bible/the-quest-for-the-historical-paul/

Join our discord server! https://discord.gg/aneFkUJu

Join our subreddit! Reddit.com/r/EdenExodus

Bluesky:

@leavingedenpodcast.bsky.social

@hellyeahsadie.bsky.social

@gavihacohen.bsky.social

Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/leavingedenpodcast/

https://www.instagram.com/sadiecarpentermusic/

https://www.instagram.com/gavrielhacohen/

Subscribe to Leaving Eden Podcast on YouTube!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4q94gAnsoW2jME4SvVrrQ

Join our Patreon for extended, uncensored, and ad-free versions of most of our episodes, as well as other patron perks and bonus content!

https://www.patreon.com/LeavingEdenPodcast

Join our Facebook group to join in the discussion with other fans!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/edenexodus

Join our subreddit! Reddit.com/r/EdenExodus

Bluesky:

@leavingedenpodcast.bsky.social

@hellyeahsadie.bsky.social

@gavihacohen.bsky.social

Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/leavingedenpodcast/

https://www.instagram.com/sadiecarpentermusic/

https://www.instagram.com/gavrielhacohen/

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.