This week, we’re replaying the inaugural episode of More Perfect (first aired in 2016) we explore three little words embedded in the 8th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: “cruel and unusual.” America has long wrestled with this concept in the context of our strongest punishment, the death penalty. A majority of “we the people” (61 percent, to be exact) are in favor of having it, but inside the Supreme Court, opinions have evolved over time in surprising ways.

And outside of the court, the debate drove one woman in the UK to take on the U.S. death penalty system from Europe. It also caused states to resuscitate old methods used for executing prisoners on death row. And perhaps more than anything, it forced a conversation on what constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.

In this episode, we also include a new conversation with Harvard law professor Carol Steiker and former death-row inmate Damien Nichols about the moment the death penalty finds itself in now. After the botched execution of Christa Pike, and with the government considering livestreaming a firing squad execution, how do we understand the death penalty in 2026?

Special thanks to Claire Phillips, Nina Perry, Stephanie Jenkins, Ralph Dellapiana, Byrd Pinkerton, Elisabeth Semel, Christina Spaulding, Carol Steiker, Damien Nichols, and The Marshall Project
 
EPISODE CREDITS: 
Update Reported by - Karen Duffin
Update Produced by - Mona Madgavkar, and Matt Kielty
with mixing help from - Jeremy Bloom and Arianne Wack
Fact-checking by - Hilary Elkins

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In 1973, a massive manhunt in New York's Adirondack Mountains ended when police captured a man named Robert Garrow. And that’s when this story really gets started.

In this episode, that we first released in 2016, we consider a string of barbaric crimes by a hated man, and the attorney who, when called to defend him, also wound up defending a core principle of our legal system. When Frank Armani learned his client’s most gruesome secrets, he made a morally startling decision that stunned the world and goes to the heart of what it means to be a defense attorney - how far should lawyers go to provide the best defense to the worst people?

NOTE: This episode contains graphic descriptions of sexual assault and violence, listener discretion is advised.

Special thanks to Tom Alibrandi, author of Privileged Information, with Frank Armani, Laurence Gooley, author of Terror in the Adirondacks: The True Story of Serial Killer Robert F. Garrow, Charl Bader and the students in her Criminal Defense Clinic at Fordham University, Leslie Levin and the students in her Legal Profession class at The University of Connecticut School of Law, Clark D. Cunningham at Georgia State University College of Law, Debra Armani, Mary Armani, Lohr McKinstry, Tom Scozzafava, Stephanie Jenkins, Brian Farrell, Jennifer Brumback and Nick Capodice. 

EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Brenna Farrell
with help from - Simon Adler
Produced by - Matt Kielty and Brenna Farrell

EPISODE CITATIONS:

• Sworn to Silence: The Truth Behind Robert Garrow and the Missing Bodies' Case, by Jim Tracey.

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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First aired back in 2020, this episode follows the story of an octopus living one mile under the ocean as she performs a heroic act of heart and determination.

In 2007, Bruce Robison’s robot submarine stumbled across an octopus settling in to brood her eggs. It seemed like a small moment, but as he went back to visit her month after month, what began as a simple act of motherhood became a heroic feat that has never been equaled by any known species on Earth. 

This episode was reported and produced by Annie McEwen. 

If you need more ocean in your life, check out the incredible Monterey Bay Aquarium live cams (especially the jellies!): www.montereybayaquarium.org/animals/live-cams

Here’s a pic of Octomom sitting on her eggs (© 2007 MBARI), Nov. 1, 2007.

If you need more ocean in your life, check out the incredible Monterey Bay Aquarium live cams (especially the jellies!): Live Cams of Monterey Bay Aquarium!!

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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Throughout human history, there’s been one element we’ve always associated with death. Just the smell of it is an alarm bell that says, “something here is dangerous.” But what if our noses have been wrong all along?

In this episode of our series Viscera: Gripping Tales of the Human Body, we take you to a live performance in Boston where we reveal how this much-maligned element might be better understood as the smell of life.

LATERAL CUTS:

Want to see a Viscera show? Join us for Radiolab Presents: Viscera, live in New York City on Thursday, November 5th. All about the sometimes freaky world of organ transplants, with special guest Mary Roach discussing her upcoming book, Replaceable You: Adventures in Human Anatomy. Get your tickets at wnyc.org/events.

EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Avir Mitra and Matt Kielty
with help from - Mona Madgavkar
Produced by - Mona Madgavkar and Matt Kielty
with mixing help from - Jeremy Bloom
Fact-checking by - Rachel Gross
and Edited by  - Pat Walters
Liveshow production support - Natalia Ramirez, Sarah Sandbach, Maia Appleby Melamed, and Jeremy Bloom.

EPISODE CITATIONS:

Videos - 

• Watch the video of Radiolab Presents: Viscera live at WBUR CitySpace (https://zpr.io/PZF3BqnbKKJD)

Articles - 

• A possible chemical explanation for the events associated with the death of Gloria Ramirez at Riverside General Hospital (https://zpr.io/sbjXYcPenGSH), the paper explaining Livermore Lab’s hypothesis.

Books - 

• The Great Secret (https://zpr.io/PGCmihSFBHj4), by Jennet Conant about the birth of chemotherapy in the laboratory of war. 

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Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.

Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [email protected].

Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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In less than four years, mathematician Steve Strogatz watched AI go from flailing at basic arithmetic to solving problems that baffle the world’s best mathematicians. In September of 2026, Open AI announced it had solved a Millennium Prize Problem, one of math’s highest achievements. In short, mathematics is right now on the cusp of a reckoning that may be coming for all of us. In this episode, Steve grapples with the idea that the window might be closing on humanity’s effort to unpuzzle, or learn, or understand the world around us.

Special thanks to Ravi Vakil, Alex Kontorovich, Bob Wright.

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Reported by - Maria Paz Gutierrez and Soren Wheeler
Produced by - Soren Wheeler and Maria Paz Gutierrez
Fact-checking by - Diane Kelly
and Edited by  - Pat Walters

EPISODE CITATIONS:

Videos -  

• On deep learning for cancer diagnosis and treatment (https://zpr.io/TPnVfbPH8gTr), by Regina Barzilay (MIT Professor of AI & Health)

Articles - 

• Mathematics Isn’t Just a Game to Let A.I. Solve. History Shows Why (https://zpr.io/n67amKFPuiYA), by Steven Strogatz and Alex Townsend
• OpenAI Releases Findings on 377 Math Problems, Further Roiling Field (https://zpr.io/YDjQXvYfqkvA), by Kenneth Chang and Siobhan Roberts 

Books - 

• Big Math: The Hidden Codes that rule our World (https://zpr.io/BFuYZ29qt8av), by Steven Strogatz and Alex Townsend

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Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [email protected].

Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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In this short episode, first aired in 2011, a neurologist issues a dare to a ragtime piano player and a famous conductor. When the two men face off in an fMRI machine, the challenge is so unimaginably difficult that one man instantly gives up. But the other achieves a musical feat that ought to be impossible.

Reporter Jessica Benko went to Michigan to visit Bob Milne, one of the best ragtime piano players in the world, and a preternaturally talented musician. Usually, Bob sticks to playing piano for small groups of ragtime enthusiasts, but he recently caught the attention of Penn State neuroscientist Kerstin Betterman, who had heard that Bob had a rare talent: He can play technically challenging pieces of music on demand while carrying on a conversation and cracking jokes. According to Kerstin, our brains just aren't wired for that. So she decided to investigate Bob's brain, and along the way she discovered that Bob has an even more amazing ability ... one that we could hardly believe and science can't explain.

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
 

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When you think about grass, what do you think of? Pool parties? Suburbs? Allergies? What about: human history? It turns out, unassuming grass, which exists on every continent, has an epic story to tell. One of transforming the planet, and … us. From what we eat, to how our body might be shaped and the ways we perceive the world. Senior Correspondent Molly Webster speaks to biologist and writer David George Haskell in this tiny ode to Grass.

This episode was inspired by “Grass Fed”, a Radiolab outdoor theatre performance at Little Island in New York City. “Grass Fed” featured biologist and writer David George Haskell; Foley artist Steven Wendt; and dance company, Pilobolus. Special thanks to all the artists, and to Little Island, Sarah Sandbach, Natalia Ramirez, and Soren Wheeler.

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Hosted by - Molly Webster
Reported by - Molly Webster
with help from - Jo Strogatz and Anisa Vietze
Produced by - Sarah Qari
with help from - Jo Strogatz, Molly Webster 
Original vocals from - Jo Strogatz
with mixing from - Jeremy S. Bloom
Fact-checking by - Nora Belblidia
and Edited by  - Pat Walters
 

EPISODE CITATIONS:

Articles - 

• The Other Almanac 2026 (https://www.otheralmanac.com/), by David George Haskell a print-only magazine contains an essay All Hail Grass, Maker of Humans! by David George Haskell all about grass’s role in human history. 

Books - 

• How Flowers Made Our World” (https://zpr.io/r4ybZJea8WV9) by David George Haskell which has a chapter all about grass in it (it’s a flowering plant, if you didn’t know!)
   

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Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.

Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [email protected].

Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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“What is the sweetest thing in the world?” After co-host Latif Nasser’s sons ask him this deceptively simple question, he goes on a quest to find it. Is it a West African Katemfe berry? Or an industrial sugar substitute cooked up in a lab? Or an ingredient hiding in plain sight in all of our pantries? A simple mystery that will make you question what sweetness even is, how our tongues (and other body parts you wouldn’t expect) determine what we like, and how far you would go to taste something sweeter than anyone has ever experienced. 

Thank you to Latif’s sons for indulging us, to Nicola Twilley and Cynthia Graber at Gastropod, to Anni Laffitte, Nazli Parvizi at Museum of Food and Drink, to food icons Claire Saffitz and Sam Seneveratne who did a live show version of this episode with us at the Tribeca Festival. And thank you to Davy Gardner and his wonderful team of audio folks at the Tribeca Festival.

Thank you to Jialin Deng who composed the song that was our ‘sonic seasoning’. And to Laura Rickman and everyone else at Columbia University’s Mortimer B Zuckerman Mind Brain Behavior Institute for hosting us. 

And big thanks to experimental psychologist Charles Spence at Oxford, sweetness chemist Grant DuBois, Danielle Reed at Monell Chemical Senses Center, and nutritional scientist Sarah Berry at King’s College London who all talked to us about their research. And Brian Everett of Honest Organic Farms.

And a very special thanks to Sean Oomens, inventor of producer Jess Yung’s favorite candy, nerd gummy clusters

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Reported by - Latif Nasser
with help from - Jessica Yung, Maria Paz Gutierrez, Jessica Yung, Ekedi Fausther-Keeys, and Natalia Ramirez
Produced by - Jessica Yung 
with help from -  Mona Madgavkar, Maria Paz Gutierrez, Gabby Santas, and Maia Appleby Melamed
with mixing help from - Jeremy Bloom
Fact-checking by - Sophie Samiee
and Edited by - Pat Walters

EPISODE CITATIONS:

Videos:

• Youtuber Chemiolis tried to make Luguduname himself (https://zpr.io/MmUbGfwwFrFH) 

Articles -

• Race to Redesign Sugar (https://zpr.io/VpsMxfPRbxaz) by Nicola Twilley
• The Search for Sweet (https://zpr.io/JmeDkVhrd2dK) by Burkhard Bilger
• How My Trip to Quit Sugar Became A Journey Into Hell (https://zpr.io/ni6xgC38Qmyf) by Caity Wever
• How Much of Our Existence Do We Owe to Sugar? (https://zpr.io/M2py48SxnQAT) by Jackie Flynn Mogensen
• Scientists Find Sugar In Space (https://zpr.io/e94UtUuhPtbT) by Rebecca Dzombak

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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When Kelley Benham and her husband Tom French finally got pregnant, after many attempts and a good deal of technological help, everything was perfect. Until it wasn't. Their story raises questions that, until recently, no parent had to face… and that are still nearly impossible to answer.

This hour, which we first released in 2013, we spend the entire episode on the story of Kelley and Tom, whose daughter was born at 23 weeks and 6 days, roughly halfway to full term. Their story contains an entire universe of questions about the lines between life and death, reflex and will, and the confusing tug of war between two basic moral touchstones: doing no harm...and doing everything in our power to help. Kelley has written about her experience in a brilliant series of articles in the Tampa Bay Times. 

If you want to know more about what we talk about in the update tacked onto the end of this episode, check out the links below: 

• This Photo Here (https://zpr.io/ZvMD42u9hzuu) 
• Plus This Video Here (https://zpr.io/8ewZUD368TzP) 

Check out the book that Tom and Kelley wrote about Juniper here:

• Juniper: The girl who was born too soon. (https://zpr.io/8ewZUD368TzP) 

And when you're done listening to the episode, be sure to check out the video below--but be warned, it does contain spoilers. 

• 23 Weeks 6 Days Video

EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by Jad Abumrad
Produced by Matt Kielty and Jad Abumrad
Update produced by Pat Walters and Anisa Vietze
with mixing help from Jeremy Bloom
 

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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We’re coming up on the 25th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, and it had us thinking about an episode we produced in 2014. It’s the story of one sentence, written in the hours after September 11th, 2001, that has led to the longest war in U.S. history. We examine how just 60 words of legal language have blurred the line between war and peace. 

In the hours after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, a lawyer sat down in front of a computer and started writing a legal justification for taking action against those responsible. The language that he drafted and that President George W. Bush signed into law—called the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF)—has at its heart one single sentence, 60 words long. Over the last decade, those 60 words have become the legal foundation for the "war on terror." In this collaboration with BuzzFeed, reporter Gregory Johnsen tells us the story of how this has come to be one of the most important, confusing, troubling sentences of the last two decades. We go into the meetings that took place in the chaotic days just after 9/11, speak with Congresswoman Barbara Lee and former Congressman Ron Dellums about the vote on the AUMF. We hear from former White House and State Department lawyers John Bellinger & Harold Koh. We learn how this legal language unleashed Guantanamo, Navy Seal raids and drone strikes. And we speak with journalist Daniel Klaidman, legal expert Benjamin Wittes and Virginia Senator Tim Kaine about how these words came to be interpreted, and what they mean for the future of war and peace. 

LATERAL CUTS -
Really anything from our sister show, More Perfect

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Reported by - Kelsey Padgett
with help from - Matt Kielty
Produced by - Matt Kielty
with help from - Kelsey Padgett

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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The world lost a legend recently, and we wanted in some small way to pay tribute to the great Dolly Parton. So we’re playing you an episode from a series we had a small part in back in 2017, Dolly Parton’s America. 

The series kicked off with a simple question: How did the queen of the boob joke become a feminist icon? Helen Morales, author of “Pilgrimage to Dollywood,” gave us a stern directive – look at the lyrics! So we dive into Dolly’s discography, starting with the early period of what Dolly calls “sad ass songs” to find remarkably prescient words of female pain, slut-shaming, domestic violence, and women being locked away in asylums by cheating husbands. We explore how Dolly took the centuries-old tradition of the Appalachian “murder ballad”—an oral tradition of men singing songs about brutally killing women—and flipped the script, singing from the woman’s point of view. And as her career progresses, the songs expand beyond the pain to tell tales of leaving abuse behind.

How can such pro-woman lyrics come from someone who despises the word feminism? Best to let Dolly tell you herself. 

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Reported by - Jad Abumrad and Shima Oliaee
Produced by - Jad Abumrad
with help from - W. Harry Fortuna
Original music from - Alex Overington
Sound design contributed by - Alex Overington
and Edited by  - Suzie Lechtenberg

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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