A year ago we brought you a show called Shell Game where a journalist named Evan Ratliff made an AI copy of himself. Now on season 2 of the show, Evan’s using AI to do more than just mimic himself — he’s starting a company staffed entirely by AI agents, and making a podcast about the experience. The show is a smart, funny, and truly bizarre look at what AI can do—and what it can’t. 

This week we bring you the first episode of Shell Game Season Two, Minimum Viable Company. You can sign up to get the rest of the Shell Game ad-free, and the Shell Game newsletter, at shellgame.co .

EPISODE CREDITS: 

Shell Game 
Hosted by Evan Ratliff, 
Produced and edited by Sophie Bridges. 
Shell Game’s Technical Advisor Matty Bohacek 
Executive Produced by Samantha Henig, Kate Osborn and Mangesh Hattikudur at Kaleidoscope
and Katrina Norvell at IHeart Podcasts.

Radiolab portions 
Hosted by Simon Adler 
Produced by Mona Madgavkar.

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Our original host Jad Abumrad returns to share a new podcast series he’s just released. It’s all about Fela Kuti, a Nigerian musician who created a genre, then a movement, then tried to use his hypnotic beats to topple a military dictatorship. Jad tells us about the series and why he made it, and we play the episode that, for us at least, gets to the heart of the matter: How exactly does his music work? What actually happens to the people who hear it and how does it move them to action?

You can find Jad’s entire nine-part series, Fela Kuti: Fear No Man, on Apple or Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Reported by - Jad Abumrad
Radiolab portions produced by - Sindhu Gnanasambandan

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Today on the show, we’re bringing you an episode from Our Common Nature (https://link.podtrac.com/v7mx144d), a new podcast series where cellist Yo-Yo Ma and host Ana González travel around the United States to meet people, make music and better understand how culture binds us to nature. The series features a few familiar voices, including Ana González (host) and Alan Goffinski (producer), from our kids podcast, Terrestrials (https://link.podtrac.com/vysacqn1). 

About the episode: 
West Virginia is defined by its beauty and its coal, two things that can work against each other. Yo-Yo Ma felt this as soon as stepped foot in its hills.This episode explores how music and poetry help process the emotions of a community besieged with disaster and held together by pride and duty. We travel down the Coal River with third-generation coal miner Chris Saunders, who tells us how coal has saved and threatened his life. Poet Crystal Good shares her poetry, which channels her rage and love. And musician and granddaughter of West Virginia coal miners, Kathy Mattea, explains the beauty of belting out your home state in a chorus. The end of the episode finds host Ana floating down the New River with help from a group of high schoolers and Yo-Yo Ma. 

Listen to the full series Our Common Nature (https://link.podtrac.com/v7mx144d). 

Featuring music by Yo-Yo Ma, Dom Flemons, and Kathy Mattea and poetry by Crystal Good.

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Radiolab Bits Produced - Anisa Vietze (Radiolab bits)

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Qasem Waleed is a 28-year-old physicist who has lived in Gaza his whole life. In 2024, he joined a chorus of Palestinians sharing videos and pictures and writing about the chaos and violence they were living through, as Israel’s military bombardment devastated their lives. But Qasem was trying to describe his reality through the lens of the most notoriously confusing and inscrutable field of science ever, quantum mechanics. We talked to him, from a cafe near the Al-Mawasi section of Gaza, to find out why. And over the course of several conversations, he told us how this reality-breaking corner of science has helped him survive. And how such unspeakable violence actually let him understand, in a visceral way, quantum mechanics’ most counter-intuitive ideas. 

Special thanks to Katya Rogers, Karim Kattan, Allan Adams, Sarah Qari, Soren Wheeler, and Pat Walters

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Reported by - Lulu Miller
Produced by - Jessica Yung
with mixing help from - Jeremy Bloom
Fact-checking by - Emily Krieger
and Edited by  - Alex Neason

EPISODE CITATIONS:

Videos - 

• A Brief History of Quantum Mechanics with Sean Carroll, The Royal Institution (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVmeOCJjOU)
• Introduction to Superposition, with MIT’s Allan Adams (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ3bPUKo5zc)
• The Quantum Wavefunction, Explained (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOI4DlWQ_1w)

Articles - 
Read a selection of Qasem’s published essays about his life in Gaza and the quantum world: 

• I am stuck in a box like Schrodinger’s in Gaza (https://zpr.io/ALDVi9E5bRt8) 
• Israel has turned Gaza’s summer into a weapon (https://zpr.io/YS4WK4hVQC5T)
• The Physics of Death in Gaza (https://zpr.io/hxsgxicVqPAd) 

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

When we think of China today, we think of a technological superpower. From Huawei and 5G to TikTok and viral social media, China is stride for stride with the United States in the world of computing. However, China’s technological renaissance almost didn’t happen. And for one very basic reason: the Chinese language, with its 70,000 plus characters, couldn’t fit on a keyboard.

Today, we tell the story of Professor Wang Yongmin, a hard-headed computer programmer who solved this puzzle and laid the foundation for the China we know today.

Special thanks to Martin Howard. You can view his renowned collection of typewriters at: antiquetypewriters.com.

 

EPISODE CREDITS: 

Reported by - Simon Adler

Produced by - Simon Adler
 

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

A call to oceanographer Edie Widder about a fish with a very odd immune system quickly becomes something else: a dive into the deep sea, into a world of brilliant light. But down there, the light doesn’t behave like light -- it sparkles and glows, but also drips, squirts, and dribbles. Today, find out how creatures make the light and how they use it, from hunting and hiding to maybe even … talking. And hear about a series of mysterious moments where Edie goes from studying the creatures to becoming one of them. 

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Hosted by - Molly Webster
Reported by - Molly Webster
Produced by - Maria Paz Gutierrez
with help from - Molly Webster
Fact-checking by - Diane A. Kelly

LATERAL CUTS (Other Radiolab episodes you may like):
Octomom - https://radiolab.org/podcast/octomom
The Darkest Dark - https://radiolab.org/podcast/the-darkest-dark

EPISODE CITATIONS:
Documentary - 
Coming soon, there’ll be a new doc about Edie’s life and work studying bioluminescence in deep sea creatures. According to Edie, “A Life Illuminated”, contains some of the best deep sea bioluminescence footage ever recorded. It’s from our friends at Sandbox Films, and director Tasha Van Zandt.
https://www.sandboxfilms.org/films/a-life-illuminated/

Books - 
Edie Widder wrote a memoir! Go read, “Below the Edge of Darkness: A Memoir of Exploring Light and Life in the Deep Sea”.https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/564185/below-the-edge-of-darkness-by-edith-widder-phd/

Videos - 
It’s not in the episode, but a few years back, Edie’s fame reached new heights when she captured footage of a never-before-seen Giant Squid … here’s the story, and video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krDdv9KLmuM
 

Articles - 
A look at some glowing shrimps.
https://zpr.io/3jyHWi7VFBw5

A photo gallery of different types of deep sea glow, from different types of deep sea creatures, including one of counterillumination, which Edie talks about in the episode.
https://zpr.io/hdFFsArGjhau
 

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Love it or hate it, the freedom to say obnoxious and subversive things is the quintessence of what makes America America. But our say-almost-anything approach to free speech is actually relatively recent, and you can trace it back to one guy: a Supreme Court justice named Oliver Wendell Holmes. Even weirder, you can trace it back to one seemingly ordinary eight-month period in Holmes’s life when he seems to have done a logical U-turn on what should be say-able.  Why he changed his mind during those eight months is one of the greatest mysteries in the history of the Supreme Court. (Spoiler: the answer involves anarchists, a house of truth, and a cry for help from a dear friend.)  Join us in an episode we originally released in 2021, as we investigate why he changed his mind, how that made the country change its mind, and whether it’s now time to change our minds again.

Special thanks to Jenny Lawton, Soren Shade, Kelsey Padgett, Mahyad Tousi and Soroush Vosughi.

LATERAL CUTS:
Content Warning
Facebook Supreme Court
The Trust Engineers

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Reported by - Latif Nasser
Produced by - Sarah Qari
with help from - Anisa Vietze

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Over the past five years TikTok has radically changed the online world. But trust us when we say, it’s not how you’d expect.

Today we continue our yearslong exploration of what you can and can’t post online. We look at how Facebook’s approach to free speech has evolved since Trump’s victory. How TikTok upended everything we see. And what all this means for the future of our political and digital lives.

Special thanks to Kate Klonick

EPISODE CREDITS: 

Reported by - Simon Adler
Produced by - Simon Adler

Original music from - Simon Adler

with mixing help from - Jeremy Bloome

Fact-checking by - Anna Pujol-Mazzini

Lateral Cuts:
The Trust Engineers
Facebook’s Supreme Court

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Ella al-Shamahi is one part Charles Darwin, one part Indiana Jones. She braves war zones and pirate-infested waters to collect fossils from prehistoric caves, fossils that help us understand the origin of our species. Her recent hit BBC / PBS series Human follows her around the globe trying to piece together the unlikely story of how early humans conquered the world.  But Ella’s own origins as an evolutionary biologist are equally unlikely. She sits down with us and tells us a story she has rarely shared publicly, about how she came to believe in evolution, and how much that belief cost her. 

Special thanks to Misha Euceph, Khalil Andani, and Hamza Syed.

EPISODE CREDITS: 
Reported by - Latif Nasser
Produced by - Jessica Yung and Pat Walters
with help from - Sarah Qari
Fact-checking by - Diane Kelly
and Edited by  - Pat Walters

EPISODE CITATIONS:

Videos - 

“Human” (https://www.bbcearth.com/shows/human), Ella’s show on the BBC and PBS

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

This is the story of a three-year-old girl and the highest court in the land. The Supreme Court case Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl is a legal battle that has entangled a biological father, a heart-broken couple, and the tragic history of Native American children taken from their families. We originally released this story back in 2013, when that girl’s fate was still in the balance of various legal decisions. We thought now was a good time to bring the story back, because the Act at the center of the story is still being questioned.

When then-producer Tim Howard first read about this case, it struck him as a sad but seemingly straightforward custody dispute. But, as he started talking to lawyers and historians and the families involved in the case, it became clear that it was much more than that. Because Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl challenges parts of the 1978 Indian Child Welfare Act, this case puts one little girl at the center of a storm of legal intricacies, Native American tribal culture, and heart-wrenching personal stakes.

LATERAL CUTS:
What Up Holmes?
The Gatekeeper

EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Tim Howard
Produced by - Tim Howard

EPISODE CITATIONS (so many):

Background and Reporting from a range of different perspectives

• "Couple forced to give up daughter"
  An introductory article by Allyson Bird, for the Charleston, SC Post and Courier
• "Supreme Court Takes on Indian Child Welfare Act in Baby Veronica Case" 
  A report for Indian Country Today by Suzette Brewer, who has also written a two-part series on the case.
• "Supreme Court hears Indian child custody case"
  Tulsa World article by Michael Overall which includes Dusten Brown's account of his break-up with Veronica's mother, and his understanding about his custodial rights. Plus photos of Dusten, Veronica, and Dusten's wife Robin in their Oklahoma home_._
• Randi Kaye's report for CNN on the background of the case, and interviews with Melanie and Matt Capobianco: "Video: Adoption custody battle for Veronica"
• Nina Totenberg’s report for NPR: "Adoption Case Brings Rare Family Law Dispute To High Court"
• Reporting by NPR's Laura Sullivan and Amy Walters on current ICWA violations in South Dakota.
• Dr. Phil's coverage: "Adoption Controversy: Battle over Baby Veronica"

Analysis and Editorials

• Op-ed by Veronica's birth mom, Christy Maldonado, in the Washington Post: "Baby Veronica belongs with her adoptive parents"
• Colorlines report "The Cherokee Nation’s Baby Girl Goes on Trial:"
• Americans remain dangerously uninformed about the basics of tribal sovereignty, and what it means for the relationship between the United States and Native tribes and nations.
• The Weekly Standard's Ethan Epstein argues that ICWA is "being used to tear [families] apart]: "Mistreating Native American Children"
• Andrew Cohen considers the trickier legal aspects of the case for the Atlantic in "Indian Affairs, Adoption, and Race: The Baby Veronica Case Comes to Washington:"
• A little girl is at the heart of a big case at the Supreme Court next week, a racially-tinged fight over Native American rights and state custody laws.
• Marcia Zug's breakdown of the case (Marica Zug is an associate professor of law at the University of South Carolina School of Law who she specializes in family and American Indian law) "Doing What’s Best for the Tribe" for Slate:
• Two-year-old “Baby Veronica” was ripped from the only home she’s known. The court made the right decision.
• Marcia Zug for the Michigan Law Review: "Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl: Two-and-a-Half WAys To Destroy Indian Law"
• From Walter Olson, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute’s Center for Constitutional Studies: "The Constitutional Flaws of the Indian Child Welfare Act"
• Rapid City Journal columnist David Rooks poses a set of tough questions about ICWA: "ROOKS: Questions unasked, unanswered"
• Editorial coverage from The New York Times:
• "A Wrenching Adoption Case"
• "Adoptive Parents vs. Tribal Rights"

Contemporary, Historic, and Legal Source Materials

• Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl on the SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) Blog
• Audio from the oral arguments in the Supreme Court
• Official website for ICWA (the federal Indian Child Welfare Act)
• 1974 Hearings Before the Subcommittee on Indian Affairs "on problems that American Indian families face in raising their children and how these problems are affected by federal action or inaction." PDF
• The National Indian Child Welfare Association
• The First Nations Repatriation Institute, which works with and does advocacy for adoptees

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Over the course of millions of years, human voices have evolved to hold startling power. These clouds of vibrating air carry crucial information about who we are–and we rely on them to push ourselves up and out into the physical world.

This week, we’re on a journey to understand how we got our unique sonic fingerprint, the power it affords us, and what happens when it’s taken away.

Special thanks to Alice Wong, Wren Farrell, Hector Espinal and his parents, Crisaly and Hector Espinal, Mary Croke, Nancy Kielty, Beth McEwen, Robin Feuer Miller, Roomful of Teeth, Amanda Crider, Caroline Shaw, Judd Greenstein, Leilihua Lanzilotti, Rebekka Karijord, and Michael Harrison.

EPISODE CREDITS: 

Reported by -Annie McEwen and Matt Kielty
Produced by - Annie McEwen and Matt Kielty
Original music and sound design contributed by - Jeremy Bloom and Matt Kielty
with mixing help from - Jeremy Bloom
Fact-checking by - Anna Pujol-Mazzini
and Edited by  - Alex Neason

EPISODE CITATIONS:

Books - 

• Disability Intimacy by Alice Wong
• Year of the Tiger by Alice Wong
• This is the Voice by John Colapinto

Websites -

• DisabilityVisibilityProject.com

Audio/Artists -

Roomful of Teeth (https://www.roomfulofteeth.org/)

• Partita for 8 Voices written by Caroline Shaw
• AEIOU composed by Judd Greenstein
• On Stochastic Wave behavior by Leilehua Lanzilotti
• Fugue by Rebekka Karijord, taken from the record “The Bell Tower", featuring Roomful of Teeth.
• Just Constellations, composed by Michael Harrison

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Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.

Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [email protected].

Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.