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The Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice

Mary Chan

  • 23 minutes 50 seconds
    Find Podcast Success While Doing Less - EP 87

    What could doing less look like for your podcast? Life is chaos these days. The hours often seem to fill up instantly with all the things on your plate, so don’t feel bad if publishing podcast episodes start to slide to the bottom of your to-do list. Stumbling on the podcasting flow is totally normal—and totally fixable. The good news is that you can cut back on your workload and still release an impactful, exciting show.

    Curbing the number of hours you spend prepping, recording, editing, publishing, and promoting doesn’t have to result in lower-quality episodes. By circling back to your original goals and finding ways to trim, rearrange, and even cut tasks that don’t serve you, a process emerges that keeps you excited to create but not bogged down for hours and hours you just don’t have.

    Yes, you have the potential to balance more rest and a meaningful show:

    • How to check in on your definition of success
    • Why you’re getting better with every show, even if you didn’t notice
    • How to go out with heart if you decide to take a break

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Connect with Mary!

    Show Credits:

    [MUSIC IN - GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS]

    MARY: What's possible if you can do less on your podcast, but still achieve your goals. This very specific moment in time. We're looking at the very end of 2024. We're in early November. As I record this, I feel like the collective Western world is at a standstill, kind of waiting in the wings, in limbo to see what's going to drop next. Whether that is interest rates for housing, local or federal elections, cost of living, like grocery prices rising. And you know, there's still like the day to day stuff like managing your work and your podcast is part of that. 

    So there's a lot happening in your world, and podcasting might not be at the top of your list of to do’s. I know. And you know what? I'm here to say that it's okay if that's what you're thinking. Like, I got other things to do than to work on my podcast right now. And yeah, it's okay. And this is coming from someone who makes a living editing, managing and strategizing other people's podcasts. Podcasts is mainly what I do. So that's a scary thought for me that if I'm telling people to podcast less, is that going to be less for me as well? How do I survive that? 

    But once you take a step back, less is more. As they say, doing less at this time in history can reap many benefits in the future. During your podcasting journey, just like any other parts of your life, it's always good to take a step back. Ask yourself, is there anything I can optimize or do less of, while still enjoying making my show? So let's get into how you can reassess your podcast, so you can still have fun creating a show that you love and have the work of making a podcast that meets your capacity. 

    This is episode 87 on the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice.

    > 

    In our fast paced, moving, technological world, many things are grabbing our attention. 

    [INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

    And as creators of content, how do you want to create content for this world? I would like to think that we're not creating content just for the sake of creating content, adding noise to what is already out there. But you know what? If you want to create content for the sake of creating content, that's your goal? All the power to you. But if you're here to nurture those relationships, get more clients, practice your messaging, and maybe experiment with your thought leadership, then you're in the right place. 

    But a podcast with those values is not easy to create. We're not just here plugging in a microphone, sitting around a table, and just shooting the breeze with your best friend. To create a podcast with intention, the effort is a long game. And some days, those days of creating the podcast can feel long as well, and very isolating. Especially with the digital world, we're always on screens and have a lot of technology in our faces and in our ears, but we're also busy with our real, quote, unquote, real life. You know, outside of work, friends, family, life in general, there's so much busyness that we are looking to slow right down, in our world. 

    In the last few months, I've been hearing this a lot. I've been hearing you say you want to do less, or pare down this chaotic life that we're in to be less, do, do, do, and just be for once, just be in your space. Everyone is also, you know, looking at your bank statements or, you know, if you don't go through it in a fine tooth comb like most average people, then at least you're looking at the bottom line, right? We're scrimping, saving, hoping for the same, or having more with spending less. 

    And that was the scary thing I was alluding to at the beginning. It's like, oh, man, if people aren't investing in a podcast, what am I doing? What am I here for, right? And there's been a lot of talk in the podcasting world, too, where people have put their shows on pause or they stopped it all together because of health reasons. Health is a big issue right now, too. So many of my clients either went through a huge health concern themselves that, impacted their capacity, or they became a family caregiver to someone, focusing their time on that. And, yeah, they still want a podcast, but figuring out, what does that look like now? 

    So in my world, it's less scary, because people still want to podcast. It is still something that's fun and that people see meaning from it. So podcasting isn't going away, but in this world that we're in, what does it look like to do less for your podcast? 

    [MUSIC IN]

    Let's switch over to the podcast listeners themselves. Today, listeners are listening less, in terms of how many shows they dedicate themselves to. So listening to an average of nine shows a week last year in 2023 to only eight shows this year in 2024. That's all from Edison Research's Infinite Dial Reports for those years. Links in the show notes if you want to go back and prove stats, if you're a big stats lover. But okay. Although listening time has gone up, so there's probably more shows now. There's more choice, and the episodes have gotten a little longer. But the thing here is that each listener is choosing to have fewer individual shows to listen to. They still want the content. Doesn't matter how long the content is, but they're being more choosy about which shows they're sticking around for. And overall, like I said, podcasting is still popular. It still grows year over year. 

    So I'm not saying to stop your podcast, you know, unless that really is your goal, and it hasn't been fun for you to produce podcasts, so I get that. But these listeners are being choosy. So let's be choosy, too, about how we create our shows. We want to keep them fun and interesting and engaging for your listeners. Because if your listeners are choosing quality over quantity, let's make sure your show is the best quality it can be, but also with the time and energy that you have to create it. 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    You know, Nic Redman actually talks about this, too, in the latter half of our conversation on episode 86. That's just the episode before this one. How after a year of her podcast, she reconvened and wondered, you know, what is this all about? Who am I serving? How does this podcast serve, you know, that ecosystem of what you're doing? And I bet a lot of podcasters, and I bet you are thinking about this, too, you know, even though we are continuing to create, we also need to take a step back to wonder, okay, is this doing what I want it to do? And if not, how can I make a shift, but still keeping up a consistency and quality, that's integral to the values of the show, and, of course, your ideal listener. 

    [MUSIC IN]

    So I'm going to break down a couple of ideas here. These are some ideas that my clients have actually taken on. And like I've always said, each podcast is going to be unique, and so everyone's going to have a different approach. And like anything else, there's no one right answer. Because we're here to redefine success. At the top of the show. I talked about your goals. Your goal is going to be different from everybody else's goal. So what is your goal? How do you want to redefine your success for your podcast? Because it's not going to come down to just the download numbers. What does that even mean? So what does success look like to you? And how can you do less and save your sanity, all while still having some fun podcasting? Sounds like a tall order, but like I said, we're going to break it down. 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    One of my personal mantras is, if it's not fun, I'm not doing it. But like everything else in my life, that's not a hard or fast rule. There are many factors to consider, what fun is and what I can control and cannot control to make that experience more enjoyable. So when you take a look at everything you do on your podcast, and I mean everything, what stands out to you? So on a very general level, I'm just going to go through some very general things on creating your podcast. 

    So first I want you to actually write it all down. If you already have a checklist of items, awesome. Go through that too. If you don't, take a few minutes, let's write it all out right now and I'll help you brainstorm here. Start with the idea that you have for an episode. You know, how do you organize that? Do you have an organization system for that? And then from there, how do you draft your episode and your thoughts? If you have guests, what are those steps to make that guest happen to come on your show? Including, you know, asking them first, the follow up, the scheduling, the recording, collecting their information. I touched on the recording. So let's get into that. 

    Recording of the episode. What is that process? Like, what is that process? If you have guests, what is that process? If it's a solo episode, what is that process? If you do more of a narrative style and you're pulling clips from different things, how do you actually record and create your podcast episodes? And then of course after that, the podcast isn't finished. It still has to be polished up and get out into the world. 

    So the post production side, this can include editing, scheduling. Do you also have to publish it to a blog? Do you write transcripts, show notes, create graphics, images? These graphics and images, they could also be part of the promotion. What are you doing to share the episode and market your show? Do you email the guest and thank them? Do you make social media posts? What about a newsletter? All of that is a lot of work and I'll be the first to admit it, not all of it is that fun. My mantra, if it's not fun, I'm not doing it. But back to your values. Let's not have this whole overwhelming thing derail you and this list. 

    On a general overview from that list, what sticks out like a sore thumb or maybe even as you're writing, the one thing on the list, what made you go, ugh, or even make a really cringey face. What was that that made that emotion creep up? Or maybe another way to look at it could be asking yourself, why do you have that on your checklist in the first place? Does it actually align with your values for your podcast? Or did you add it because, well, everybody else seems like they're doing it. So if it's there, can you do it differently so it's more efficient, or can you take it out altogether? Would you be able to do that one thing alongside something else so that you can get two for the price of one under one task? 

    This reminds me a lot, actually, with episode 84 with Craig Constantine. He talks a bit about publishing schedules and quote, he says, if you're doing things all by yourself, weekly is insane. And I would even say if you have a little bit of support, that is still insane. I mean, just listen to that very general list I rattled off a few minutes ago. Podcasting is an insane amount of work. But like Craig says in the episode, he streamlines what he's not liking and constantly auditing his workflow so that it continues to stay fun for him in the capacity that he needs. 

    [MUSIC IN] Remember, too, that your podcast is a learning journey. What you did on episode 1 is not the same as what you'll do for episode 10, 20, or even 100. Yes, they still could sound the same. You might have, you know, same intro, you have the guest, and then you have an outro. The format could still be the same. But, how you create those episodes can differ. You learn with each and every episode you create, even if you're not, like, fully aware that's happening. Yeah, each time, you get to improve one small thing with each episode, whether that's the actual content of what people will hear, or the process in creating that episode. The podcast grows alongside you as a podcaster. 

    And since each podcast is unique, each host is unique, you are your own unique selling point, and your voice is a unique thumbprint, that nobody else has. You get to decide what works, what needs improvement, and what can stop. So, experiment, no one magic blueprint is going to solve all your problems. 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    So say you want more capacity. You need more time. Like Craig was saying, it's insane, a weekly show. So maybe think about changing to every other week instead of weekly. You can always go back to weekly when your capacity is not as limited, in this current season, every other week gives you more time to incorporate breathing space and spacing out your workload. But that doesn't mean, if you're still recording, editing, and publishing right up to the deadline, even when this schedule is adjusted and you feel like it's still a lot to handle, you might need to actually take a look at your calendar as a whole and schedule in time to do specific tasks, so it doesn't feel so overwhelming at the last minute. 

    So what I mean is, if, for example, on your previous schedule you had one week to record, edit, and publish, you can now spread that out over two weeks. So maybe record on one day, take a break for a few days, do anything else you need to do, then come back, edit your show, then take a break, do what you need to do, and then come back again and do the post production, like the scheduling and the publishing and all that sort of stuff. 

    You can implement this by adding it to your calendar. So scheduling in those editing and publishing dates, so they are there and blocked out for you. For example, I know a lot of my clients, they like to double check on things and make sure that the scheduling is done like two days before the publishing date. That gives you some buffer time in case you get sick or you're like, I'm going to procrastinate and not do the podcast. But at least it's in your calendar to remind you that you've got to do this this week. 

    [MUSIC IN]

    Another option could be thinking about shorter episodes. For example, if you like editing but it still feels like a slog, think about shorter episodes. Nothing says you have to create an episode of a certain length. That's actually some old mindset from the old TV standards, when you had to create 22 minutes, there was eight minutes of commercial time to fill. On a podcast, whatever time the content needs is the time it will be. Shorter episodes on interview style shows can also look like doing a bit more on the show prep side of things. 

    So, what you could do is review your current interviews that you've done and think about, you know, are you hitting record and stop only because you scheduled a one hour recording time. You know, you're just chatting away and then you're like, okay, well the time's almost up, so I'm gonna ask you one last question. Well, maybe you don't need to schedule a one hour recording time. Maybe start changing that to a 45 minute recording time. So as the times get shorter, over time you're gonna get better at getting to the meat of the conversation and what you want to get out of the conversation so it doesn't just sort of like, drag out for that one hour timeframe. This way you're honing in on your interview skills and you're forced to kind of focus on the topic at hand and have less tangents. 

    Or perhaps just to make things shorter, skip the pleasantries, skip the big bios, skip the how did you get here History stuff, and just get straight to the meat of the episode. There are various ways to cut down on an episode time, and these were just some little examples. 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    One last advice is, maybe not a popular one, but like I've said before, I'm not here to do what everyone else is doing, especially just for the sake of everything is content type of an idea. You know, in my radio days, that had a lot of impact on your mental health. When you're like, everything I do is going to be part of my show. That's a lot of pressure. So my last idea, which again, isn't say, you should do this, but I want to give you permission that it is an option, it's a possibility, to stop podcasting altogether. Shock, horror, I know, I know. 

    But as I said at the start of the show, if it's not fun right now, why are you doing it? Okay, so stopping can look like various forms. For one, a hiatus, just going to take a brief pause, or stopping and actually ending the show completely. But there's a gray zone here as well, right? It's not black or white. It's not one or the other. So to give you an idea of this hiatus, if you want to just pause for, say, a season, create your last episode, and then either explain in that last episode of it’s own or within the intro and outro that, the podcast is going on hiatus, let your listeners know why, and about approximately when you'll be back.

    It's only kind of fair when you think about it in terms of, like, a relationship. You've built up this relationship, and so you're just going to let them know, I'm going on a bit of a break. I need that break. Here are the reasons. I mean, you don't have to go in detail, obviously, but I think listeners really appreciate that. And they're going to wait for you to come back, essentially, because they're like, I get it. I'm in the same boat. I need a break, too. We'll come back together. 

    But on that train of thought, it's kind of the same, too. If you completely stop and cancel your show, don't ghost your listeners. It'd be really nice to give your show a proper farewell that it deserves. You've put a lot of effort into it. You know, whether you have only created a handful of episodes or you're on episode 100 or going into episode 500. You've put a lot of effort into this, so go out with the heart and values that you originally put into it. You've created a community here, and they would love to celebrate this goodbye along with you. 

    But of course, all of this is easier said than done. Ending your show by just, like, not doing anything anymore is also very legitimate. It's called podfading, where you just stop and ghost your listeners and you don't come back to it and you're like, I have some episodes recorded, but I got stuff. Life, it's a very real thing. And you don't have to come back to your podcast. Podfading is real, because, yeah, life. 

    You know, I personally went through that with my previous podcast about hosting international students. It's called the Homestay Kitchen. We had to stop because Covid, the world stopped. Students were not arriving, and I had a four year old to take care of while running my podcasting business during COVID So life right? Podcast gone cold turkey ghosted everyone? No, I think we did one episode about COVID and how we don't have any students right now and we might be back, and then we just never came back because life. But what I'm saying is there's no one right answer. Every podcast will go through its own journey and they will have their own path to take, too. 

    But starting with your podcast values to see what's jumping out at you right now that you want to stop doing in your podcast tasks, then you can look back and really evaluate to see what you can do to tweak that task to have it feel better or, yeah, just stop it altogether and not do that part. 

    [MUSIC IN]

    So as we start to wrap up this episode and just like this very natural time in the Northern Hemisphere, we're all turning inwards. We're cozying up in the fall and hibernating for winter coming up. So let's do a bit of collective rest for you and your podcast because I know we all need it right now. So what does rest look like to you as a podcaster? I'd love to know. How are you doing less for your show? As always, send me a note from my website, VisibleVoicePodcast.com or leave me an email to [email protected]. 

    On the next episode. I have a very special conversation because I wanted to make sure my guest was able to use what she needed to make sure that her side of the podcast was as effective as possible. For her. So it'll sound a little bit different because she'll be outside recording on her iPad. I'll take you along through the experience with the Deaf Queen Boss, Kellina Powell. Kellina empowers deaf and hard of hearing women to express themselves fully to be heard in the hearing world with confidence. So I had a lot of fun with Kalina on this episode. You'll want to hear what she does to be a podcast guest on my show and how you can also make your podcast more accessible and possible for anyone who's hard of hearing. 

    And speaking of that, of course, a full transcript of the episode is on my website, VisibleVoicePodcast.com, you can also find it on some of your apps too, so make sure that if you need the transcript, it's there for you. So we'll catch you next time when we chat with Kellina Powell, the Deaf Queen Boss. 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    >

    MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

    >

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    11 November 2024, 10:00 am
  • 42 minutes 49 seconds
    Warm Up to a Healthier, More Confident Voice with Nic Redman - EP 86

    What can you do to keep your voice in tip-top shape? As podcasters, we use our voices a lot. Chances are, that essential instrument of yours has temporarily abandoned you in the past. Whether the symptom stems from getting sick or from overuse, waking up to croaks, rasps, or silence is an awful feeling, especially if deadlines or interviews are looming. In this timely episode, Mary returns to the mic on the heels of her own voice loss to talk swollen vocal folds and slug tongue with Nic Redman, a vocal coach and voiceover artist who has spent almost 20 years helping professional speakers hone their voices.

    Nic is a font of healthy voice inspiration, sharing everything from the importance of hydration (and the truth about which beverages count) to warmups that will get your tongue trilling, your lips flapping, and your vocal cords folding. Come to terms with what you can and can’t control about your listener’s reaction to your unique voice and be reminded about what a privilege it is, literally and figuratively, to have a voice. This episode is packed with light science and exaggerated facial expressions you can practically see, all in the interest of keeping you talking for years to come.

    Join Nic and Mary for interactive vocal warmups and other voice health tips:

    • Silly faces and weird noises that can help your voice even when you’re sick
    • Why you need to get out of your own head and stop self-editing your voice
    • How to sound just as energized at the top of your episode as you do at the end
    • The benefit of vocal warmups beyond just keeping your voice healthy

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Engage with Nic:

    Connect with Mary!

    Show Credits:

    Transcript with Audio Description:

    >

    MARY: > That is a good lion roar. That's what I like to do. The trills and the lion roars. Ah, vocal warmups. They are really, really handy. Actually, you know, on my last episode, I did talk about losing my voice and how your voice is truly what makes or breaks your podcast. And, you know, it's been a month since that and I still feel a little dry in the throat. So, you know, these vocal warmups are really, really helping. 

    And luckily enough, if you can see a silver lining to losing my voice, I already had this interview scheduled with Nic Redman when I lost my voice. So kind of good timing because she gives us some really great tips. Nic has recorded and spoken for a living for nearly 20 years and coaches people to vocally free at home on the mic every day. She has been featured multiple times on BBC and Times Radio, as well as the Guardian, Irish Times and the Metro. So she really knows what she's talking about here. And some of these tips about podcasting while you're sick is so great because we're doing it real live in the moment with me, but also that preventative side that so many podcasters don't think about. And you know what, sometimes I skip over it myself. 

    So this episode is really great about learning that preventative side too. So it's all about before you ever even lose your voice from using it too much, you gotta listen to Nic and what she has to say. But aside from the vocal health, we also get into the depths of the problems of self monitoring your own voice. That leads to a lot of concern for how we sound and how we're perceived versus owning our voice. She gives a lot of great examples for this during this episode. So make sure you practice along, when we're doing our vocal warmups and start thinking about how you can also get out of your own head, because these vocal warmups are about more than just warming up those vocal cords. 

    So, yeah, get ready. Let's do some shoulder rolls while we are listening to the intro music of this episode. I always forget about the shoulders. Oh, you're gonna love these tips from Nic, it's just reminding me about all the things I need to do. 

    All right, this is episode 86 with Nic Redman on the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice.

    > 

    MARY: Nic thank you so much for joining me here on my podcast. I love that we finally get to meet over this platform.

    >

    NIC: Me too. Thanks for having me.

    MARY: Okay, first off, let's just get right to the nitty gritty about the health of your voice, because one, podcasters never think about that until they get sick. And two, I lost my voice four days ago before this recording, so I'm still a little froggy. Excuse the frog in my throat.

    NIC: That's alright.

    MARY: And I remember too, actually, in my radio days when I used to work in radio, coaching voices, reading scripts, and getting the announcers behind the mic and stuff. Whenever the announcers got sick, they lost their voice, but they still needed to talk. And I feel like that is also the same as a podcaster. It's a podcaster's worst nightmare come to life. 

    So what can podcasters do? Aside from, oh, just stop using your voice, because we get that advice a lot.

    NIC: Yeah, not useful, is it? 

    MARY: No…

    NIC: We can't.

    MARY: …so what can we do?

    NIC: Okay, I love this conversation because, like you say, often with podcasters and professional speakers, it's they come to me when they need a cure, not for prevention. You know, it's always cure rather than prevention. So I love when we get to talk about prevention, how lucky all your listeners are to get a few wee tips before it happens. Because I have to say, I've been in your position as a, as a voiceover artist and as a podcaster, and I've lost my voice and, you know, lost money and lost work, and it's just so stressful. So I'm so sorry that you're going through it. 

    If we were going through this as a consultation, she says metaphorically pushing her glasses off her hose, the first thing I would ask you, of course, is what's happened. So it's always important for the, as the voice user to sort of clarify for yourself if the voice loss is because of illness, like a cold, or cold and flu season, or allergies, or whether it's overuse, that's the first thing. 

    Because if it's overused, it's often not as simple as, oh, this will pass in a few days. Rest, hydrate, extra vitamins, you know, a few little rehab exercises, they'll be fine. If you're losing your voice a lot or you feel tired towards the end of your batch recording days or big interviews or live episodes where the adrenaline's pumping, then it is worth having a little natter to someone like me just to work out what's going on with the technique. So, that's the first thing I would always ask, but I know that yours is illness. So we'll go from an illness perspective > for this particular consultation.

    MARY: Yes. Thank you.

    NIC: The first thing is definitely hydration. That's easy, right? Just drink loads. Loads, and loads, and loads of extra fluids. People get a bit hung up on what you can and can't drink. The truth about hydration is it's very, very simple. All fluids count except alcohol. I'm really sorry if that's your tipple. Just chase that whiskey with water. > You can drink tea. It will still help you hydrate systemically within the body, which will hopefully, at some point, help the vocal folds and the mucus and the vocal folds. Even coffee, shock, horror, it's still fluid, it still counts as systemic hydration in the body. There are some elements of diuretic, i.e. it makes you go to the toilet a little bit more. But the actual more recent research about coffee is that you would have to drink an absolute tonne of it for it to actually have any effect on your voice. 

    So people can relax about coffee, espresso, martinis, whatever you need before you hit record, it's fine. I mean, of course, the caffeine might exacerbate reflux or the dairy might have an impact on the thickness in your mouth, but you can still just have your coffee for hydration. So, look, just hydrate loads. Because if you're coughing or if you're ill and creating more mucus that's thick, you will need the extra fluids to help counterbalance that. The first thing is hydration. 

    Two easy things, hydrate and rest. But we all know that rest is not easy. Sometimes it's a privilege to say that rest is easy… 

    MARY: Mhmm. 

    NIC: …shout out to anybody with a job or caregiving responsibilities or small people in their lives… 

    MARY: Yes. 

    NIC: …but if you can rest, that can really help because your body needs time to process the illness. And the more you can rest, the quicker you'll get over it. If you have to, like, record straight away, like, there's no getting over it. There are some rehab exercises you can do, but I say this with caution because obviously, if you have no voice, sometimes there's nothing to do but rest. As in rest your voice as well. I always say to people, manage the expectations of the person who's expecting you to record. 

    So if you can at any, any possibility delay it, push it back, you know, give yourself an extra day, because you do want to be on point. And it's better waiting a day and be slightly after deadline and sounding great than, you know, showing up half-cocked, as it were. 

    So that aside, if you do need to record, there's a group of exercises called, um, well, shorthand. We call them SOVT or Semi Occluded Vocal Tract Exercises. And they're designed to help release tension in the body, in the vocal tracts, regulate the breath flow, the airflow, so that the vocal folds vibrate nice and easily. And when they're swollen a little bit, if you're ill, or covered in extra thick mucus, these exercises are really good at just waking them up, encouraging them to close in a more consistent and easy way, which makes speaking better. So those exercises, although they have a big fancy name, are very simple. It's just gliding up and down your range with a partially occluded mouth space. For example…

    MARY: Yeah, I need an example.

    NIC: …Yeah. Oh, it's fine. I've got loads. Uh, this one > gentle lip trill is a nice one.

    MARY: Oh, I love those. Yes.

    NIC: Those do elude some people, though, so please don't worry, they're not for everybody. And a couple of nice other examples are big puffy TH sounds. So if you stick your tongue out and let your cheeks get nice and puffy like a hamster or a chipmunk and just go as if you're. > You've got your tongue right, like you're doing a TH sound, you know, like this. > So imagine you're just saying this, but you never get past the TH. >

    MARY: That's a good one.

    NIC: Okay. These. > That creates exactly the same environment as the lip chill does in your sort of throat area. And then the other ones you can do are any puffy fricatives, really. So these sounds like a puffy V. > You want to be aiming for a lovely feeling. Like the sound is all vibrating at the front of the mouth, rather than stuck at the back. So you don't want, like, >... 

    MARY: Yeah, that would hurt.

    NIC: ...you just want to. > Or a Z > or because different accents and different languages have different sound inventories, a puffy worse sound, like you're, you know, you're doing a trumpet with your mouth. >

    MARY: I can totally picture you doing that. That's awesome.

    NIC: What a great job I have. I'm glad there's no video. > I've got my face on the Internet doing this far too much. So it's a real free treat to not have my face in. So those exercises, I won't go into the science of it, but basically they put your larynx in a really happy, easy, free place, and they make it really easy for the vocal folds to close. 

    So if you're ill, what you might find when you glide up and down. And you could try this if you want you might find a few gaps in that glide. So you might end up with something that sounds like M. > Right? Which is because there's swelling because you've been coughing a lot or there's a lot of mucus and mucus in the way. But the thing to do is just keep gently gliding and keep gently gliding because what you'll find is your body, your incredible brain and body go, oh, that's weird. We usually make a sign there what's going on, you know, and I mean, this is not obviously the science, like the, there's real proper neuron stuff happening here. But this is how my brain processes it. It like sends everybody to work fixing basically inside. 

    So if I'm used to going, > and my body goes, > then my brain's going to go, whoa, we need to fix that. There's something wrong. And it starts helping you. And basically it encourages the vocal folds to close nicely and that will help you sound a little bit more healthy, vocally healthy, and get the mucus moving as well.

    MARY: Oh, I like that because yeah, so I lost the voice on Sunday, didn't do anything without it. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, got a little bit of it back. And I was doing some of this stuff yesterday because I thought, oh, like, what's taking it so long? 

    So I like your idea of like, the brain needs to make this happen. And so I think that's why I was like, ooh, today, yay. I have this interview. My voice is actually working for once all week. So this is nice.

    NIC: Oh, that's good. The other things I would add to complement the sort of comfort whenever you're getting through this is, people often love steaming. So taking a, well I have this peculiar looking sort of ceramic inhaler with a tube that looks a little bit dodgy to be honest, but you fill it with hot water and you suck on it gently and it's a really nice soothing in the vocal tract. 

    And then the other thing you can do as well is the sort of. The newest modern day version of steaming is using a nebulizer, like a personal nebulizer. So a little handheld device. There's one internationally you can get that's called VocalMist. They use a 0.9% saline solution and you use that for 10 minutes. And what it does is it helps the mucus on the vocal folds and it reduces, here comes the science, it reduces phonation threshold pressure for up to one hour, i.e. and makes your vocal folds vibrate more easily for a period of time. So they're really good for supporting your health, your vocal wellness, if you're under the weather.

    MARY: Wait, how does a nebulizer work? When you were describing it, I was thinking of those neti pots for your nasal sinuses. But is that similar?

    NIC: Yeah. So it's like an electrical device. If you Google, like, handheld, handheld nebulizer, you'll see it's like a little white sort of rectangular cube, like box, > I suppose, with a little spout on it. And you screw off the top, and you put a little vial of saline, note 0.9%. Very important. That's the same makeup as the saline in your body, as your mucus and stuff. And then you turn it on, and it mists, turns it into a mist. 

    MARY: Oh.

    NIC: And the mist actually reaches your vocal folds, which, with steaming, they're not sure. The droplets of steam actually hit the vocal folds. These days, the droplets of steam are bigger than the drops of mist, so it soothes your throat when you steam, and it helps thin out the mucus in your mouth. It feels nice. It's like an internal hug. But they're not actually sure if it gets to the vocal folds anymore. Whereas the nebulizer, the science and the research today, it currently shows that the mist does reach your vocal folds and hydrates them from the outside in. So the mist is absorbed at a cellular level because it matches the chemical makeup of the mucus in there, and therefore it creates a friendlier environment for the vocal folds. 

    So they're really good if you can get your hands on one. In the interest of disclosure, if I've been out to a party and had a few too many whiskeys, sometimes the next morning, a little hit on the nebulizer really helps bring my voice back to life. > I've been on the karaoke, doing a bit of a Bon Jovi.

    MARY: Yeah, those are the hacks that most people are, like, looking for. What's the hack?

    NIC: But, like, not pretend. We're all perfect. I have an episode of my podcast, actually, called how to keep your voice healthy during a festive party season. Nice. Because that's when I lost my voice, was when I went to, so I used to do a podcast called the Voiceover Social Podcast. And we have meetups, and I went to the Christmas do. I was already a bit under the weather because I host that party. It was like chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, like a wedding. And then my husband to stand up, and he was doing a gig in the evening, and me and a load of the people from that went to the standup gig. And were chat, chat, chat, laugh, laugh, laugh, chat, chat, chat. And I woke up the next day and I had no voice. I had no voice for 10 days and I lost almost a five figure amount of money in that week anyway. > So that's why I have that podcast episode and that's why I have all the hacks.

    MARY: Yes. Things we learn from our mistakes.

    NIC: Exactly. Win, learn, never lose. 

    MARY: Yep. Okay, so let's get out of the sickness mindset, but into the, when we're just doing our regular thing. We're going to be recording a podcast episode. Vocal warmups, 

    NIC: my favourite. 

    MARY: Okay. Honesty on my end. Now, even as a professional myself, you know, I do voiceover stuff too. I worked in radio, I know all the things. But there are many days that I don't even do proper warmups and I feel like it has to do more with the podcasting side. Like if I do the voiceover work, I'm doing the warmups. But when it comes to podcasting, it's more slack, I think today we're, we're trying to record so many different things for our show that we're like, we're going to do one task and the next task and the next task and we don't do the warmups. 

    So not necessarily looking for that hack or shortcut, but what can we be doing to quickly warm up before we go and set up our microphone for our recordings?

    NIC: Yes, I'm a big fan of, I suppose what, you know, they would call it the personal training world, compound exercises. So, you know, doing things that, that work multiple areas or doing a couple of things at once. So the very least I do, and I'm, I'm with you, Mary, because sometimes I drop the ball, or sometimes as a voiceover, something comes in and they need it back now, you know, and you have to jump in the booth. There's always time. There's always time to do something if I'm really honest with myself. But sometimes I take it for granted. 

    So what I love is, for example, a really, really simple one is some nice big, gentle kind of luxurious shoulder rolls and what I call a chewy hum. So you get a hum on the go that gets your lips nice and buzzy, but then you chew your lips roaring like you're eating something. So, again this is audio related, so I'll describe it as much as I can, but big shoulder rolls and then >.

    MARY: Like you're.

    NIC: And again with the hum, you're aiming to feel a really nice buzz at the front of the face, not > at the back, it really helps to kind of close your eyes and imagine you're eating something dead yummy. > I find if we're going to put an intention behind this, so you're. And then you can glide up and down your range. > It's a really good one. Oh, that felt really nice, actually.

    MARY: Yeah, that was great.

    NIC: So what you're getting there is you're releasing the shoulders, which is great for nervous tension, great for when you're on a microphone, because we often. The shoulders do a lot of our communicative talking for us as well. They're up, they're down, you know, so given the shoulders, release is really nice for the voice. The humming gets the lips released. It also encourages the voice forward a little bit, if we're thinking a bit like, sort of image based with resonance. And it also gets the airflow regulated. And, um, it gets the vocal folds vibrating and woken up as well. 

    And then, of course, when you glide light up and down, you're increasing the variety. You're showing your voice the high notes and the low notes that it can reach. Because a lot of the time with podcasting things, sometimes people feel they don't sound as vocally varied as they thought they did when they listen back. So, they listen back and they go, oh god, I sound really monotone or dull or. I thought I sounded more excited about that or something. So a very easy glide like that just shows your body the range that it's capable of, so it gives you more options. So that's one really good exercise. 

    And then I'm also a big fan of exercises that help you go straight into either, you know, practising your intro or practising a few questions. So there's an exercise again, grateful there's no video right now. But if you stick your tongue out on your lower lip like this was called, slug tongue. That's what it was called when it was taught to me, as in my book. I think if you want a picture, stick your tongue out on your lower lip and you're letting your mouth kind of relax down. If you imagine your best sort of Macaulay Culkin shocked face.

    MARY: Ah, yes.

    NIC: And that your tongue out and then you're going to speak through days of the week. Well, the first thing you can do is speak days of the week, months of the year and count one to ten with your tongue out like this. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, like that. But what you can do with that one is take the intro of your podcast and say it with that slug tongue hanging out. So you're like, hi, thank you so much for joining me, welcome to the Voice Coach Podcast. My name's Nic Redman and today we're going to be talking about warm ups. Then you can take your tongue in and go, Hi, thank you so much for joining me today. Welcome to the Voice Coach Podcast. My name is Nic Redman and today we're going to be talking about warm ups. 

    So you're taught you're sort of practicing your intro to get your vocal energy going. You're sticking your tongue out, which sort of makes it harder. So that kind of wakes up the energy of the voice a little bit. You know, it wakes up those other articulators because when you put your tongue back in and you speak, it's like, oh, my god, this is so easy now. So that's a really good one for practicing with your intro or your questions. And, this is the final one. I mean, you'll have to just stop me at some point, Mary, because I could go on forever. > Like, I literally wrote the book on this.

    MARY: Yes.

    NIC: If you put your finger, pointy finger, horizontally across your lips, as if you were doing a moustache mime, you know, in a sketch show,...

    MARY: Yes

    NIC: …but down, lower, in front, like between your lips, and then you're gonna go. > And then you're going to glide up and down your range. > 

    MARY: Yes.

    NIC: Really nice for loosening the lips, getting the breath going, getting the vocal folds and the range going. But you can also do that one with your intro. So. > Hi, thanks for joining me today, my name is Nic Redman and this is the Voice Coach Podcast > 

    And then you can go straight into it with a really big vocal energy. Because some of my podcast clients say by the end of it, I'm really warmed up, but the start always feels a bit low energy and I always end up going back to re-record my intro because I feel like it doesn't match. Do you know how relaxed I was at the end? So this is a really good one because the last thing you want to be doing as a podcast is having to re-record and edit stuff. I mean, who can be bothered? > So doing this, > oh thank you so much, > gets the energy going so you can go in with a bang.

    MARY: I love this. And also because when, when I do this work too, with people that they're, like, really stuck on this, I need to sound professional thing. And I'm like, warm ups is not about professional, it's about being fun. It is about going outside of your comfort zone. And so we need to act silly. This is a silly thing…

    NIC: Yeah. 

    MARY: …And I feel like a lot of podcasters don't realize that even when they are behind the mic, they don't have to put on that professional hat. You know, this isn't a broadcast radio, BBC, NPR, CBC-type show. This is something that is about you and your message and your voice. 

    And so when we connected over Instagram earlier this year, it was really about how as speakers, we're not able to control how someone reacts to our voice. So there's two parts of this, right? It's the, listeners has their own work to do to figure out what's bothering them, but also, you yourself as the speaker, you've got some work to do too. So, tell me more about this. Expand on it.

    NIC: Yeah. So one of the things that I come across most with podcast host clients who come to me for help, both independent and in corporate space, is this idea that they're constantly focused on how they sound. 

    MARY: Mhm. 

    NIC: You know, podcasting comes through the filter of the edit, the production, the sound effects, the intro, how it looks, how I'm presenting it, what is my logo, what is my image, what is my tile for, like for Spotify and everything. And the same happens with the voice. And people are like, how should I sound? What do I sound like? I need to sound professional, I need to sound engaging. And they come to me and they go, I think I sound to X or I don't think I sound Y enough. And that's the problem for me is this self monitoring and editing of the voice when you're using it, rather than focusing on that connection with the listener and going, doesn't matter how I sound, it matters how they feel. And it's about sort of changing that focus, you know, so we did connect about that whole, I cannot control how someone hears my voice. 

    Your audience may or may not be aware of the intricacies of Irish politics, right? But I'm a Northern Irish person of a particular religion, right? Technically, people may hear my voice and get really angry because I sound how I sound. Right? If they're from a particular part of Northern Ireland, for example. Now, I cannot do anything about that, in the same way that you might have a listener who has a teacher that they didn't like that sounded like you once. So in their head they carry this vocal baggage with them, this auditory baggage that they kind of listen through a lens with. 

    So I always say to people, listen, who cares? Because you literally have no idea who's listening to you and you cannot do anything about it. All you can do is be as yourself on the microphone as possible. Or as whoever you need to be on the microphone as possible. And your listeners will find you. And the ones who you annoy will not stick around. And they're not your people anyway.

    MARY: Yes, Exactly.

    NIC: Because when we're worrying too much about how we sign, we forget about what we're saying. And that's the point. And funny enough, this links to warm ups. Mary. Because the reason I think warm ups are important is, yes, it's about saving time in the edit and in the record. So, A, you save money, B, you save sanity and your relationship with your editor. > But also, if you warm up, then your voice is ready and you don't have to think about it. And you could focus more on the words. You can focus more on the impact that you're having and the connection you're trying to make with the listener. 

    So warming up is incredibly generous for your listener and also really good for your voice. Because you are saying, this is important to me. It's not about being professional. It's about caring about what you do and caring that the information that you're going to say is getting to the people in the way that it needs to, to make them feel in the way that you want them to.

    MARY: I love that tie back into the vocal warmups because that was one of my thoughts. And I'm sure, like, a lot of people too, is like, when you said, who cares? Because I say that too. I'm like, who cares what other people think? It's about how you want and want to feel in this moment. But them who cares? Is easier said than done. So tying it back into that vocal warmup piece is so key. So thank you so much for making that connection and for sharing that.

    NIC: Yeah. Because it's, warm ups help you get to know your voice and enjoy it. And you said fun. You said warm ups are about having fun. And I completely agree with that. And you know, if you've got a guest, do them with the guest, because you're darn right that guest is going to be nervous or excited. Like, do a few with them. Break the ice, record it, don't record it, doesn't matter. Sure, it's all content, let's be honest. But, like, it's really, really generous, important to do your warm up. 

    And I have to say, you're right, loving your voice and appreciating how you sound and not caring how other people think you sound is a big piece. And I don't say that lightly because I have done a lot of work with people on that. But remember that if you're. If you're making the step to do a podcast and put your voice out there, you clearly believe you have something to say that is bigger than your ego around your voice.

    MARY: Actually, this new client of mine said the exact same thing where she's like, this is the biggest fear I have is sharing my voice. Because she used to be a journalist, it was more about writing, and she, now that she's got her podcast out there, she's just like, oh, oh, I'm so embarrassed with my voice. So, what would you say to someone like that who's still embarrassed about their voice?

    NIC: I would say to them, remember what a privilege it is to have a voice, both literally and figuratively. I have worked with many people who have a big voice baggage for very legitimate reasons. You know, whether it's bosses, or family members, or social circles who have told them their voice is not valid or that they are not worthy of being heard. But we have to take responsibility for the fact that we have a voice in the first place. 

    So we have to step up to that fear and go, it's incredible that I have a platform, and it's incredible and a privilege that I have a voice to start with. So you just have to kind of give yourself a shake, do the silly warm ups, listen to yourself over, and over, and over again. And the more you listen, the more you'll get used to yourself and your sound and the more you'll hear the beauty in it. 

    And just remember how amazing is it the only thing we have in podcasting that is unique. The only thing. I'm sorry if you think your idea for podcasts is the most unique thing in the world…

    MARY: No.

    NIC: …It is not. It will have been done before. The only unique USP you have in podcasting is your voice. And that's the truth.

    MARY: Yeah, that's right. I say that a lot because your voice is like a thumbprint. Everyone's is unique. Like, I sound similar to my older sister, sure, but it is still me. The way I say something, the tone, the words I use, it is still you. And I love that you bring that to the table as well. 

    So you've been working in the podcasting space. You have your own show too. What have you seen that's changed or shifted at all in regards to voice in the podcasting scene?

    NIC: Thankfully, we're seeing a lot more diversity than we were. 

    MARY: Yeah.

    NIC: There's still a lot of work to be done with giving the underrepresented shows more space and more possibility to grow, I think. But there's definitely more diversity out there, which is really exciting. And luckily, a lot more women…

    MARY: Mhmm.

    NIC: …which is exciting. As someone who identifies very much as female, this is a really hard thing to be objective about. I say that slowly because I always get subjective and objective confused. And I have to really say it really slowly for my brain to. So, because I am such a podcast nerd, I obviously listen to loads of podcasts, but I also have my preferences. So, I feel like what I think is exciting in podcasting is probably because of the podcasts that I listen to.

    >

    MARY: That's right.

    NIC: But I just love that it's still an open forum. If you have a phone and access to the Internet, you can do a podcast in theory. So I just love the fact that it's still. I know there's a bit more, you know, chitter chatter about things becoming more commercial and it losing some of its grassroots charm, but the truth of it is, anybody can still do it, which is pretty cool.

    MARY: Yeah. Like you were saying, you have your own show, you have your own podcasting journey. And I've learned quite a lot from your over 80 episodes of your, the Voice Coach Podcast. They're great because they're. They're short and to the point. But what is your. What's been your biggest challenge of making the show for yourself?

    NIC: Oh, I mean, for me, it was starting as a weekly show and having to keep it up. So when I started that, the person who was producing, I had a team helping me with it. I was like, I'm going all in. And she was like, do weekly for a year and then see how you feel. So I did weekly for, yeah, a year, which was intense.

    MARY: Oh, yeah.

    NIC: I mean, even with somebody, you know, a decade's worth of experience and entire degrees in my subject, like, I, it was still like, okay, come on, I. Stay focused, stay strategized. Plan the next 10 episodes. Where are we going with this? What's happening? What's it linking to? What am I launching next? What are my people getting out of this? You know? 

    So it was keeping it focused and within, like, in line with the strategy and not just going, oh, god, I need an episode this week. I'll talk about hydration. Okay, so definitely keeping the consistency and the quality up, I think, was hard. And for me, when I first started, this was interesting, but I, and I think I reflected more on this when I wrote my book. When I first started the podcast, I think if I'm honest, I was doing it, it might, this is a bit weird, but I don't know if it's deep or whatever, but I felt like I was trying to prove things to my peers rather than serve my audience in a way. In the sense that I felt like I had to show all my academic research, all the links, all the facts, you know, make sure everyone knows I've got a master's degree in Vocal Pedagogy. I'm very well read, da da da. I'm very good. And I know this because of this book, and I know this because of this recent article. And I know this because of. I was like, my listeners don't care about that. They just want the fucking exercise, I feel like. 

    So as the show progresses towards, you know, the end of the year of weekly, I suddenly realise, obviously some of my peers listen and that's incredible and they're very complimentary about it. I love that. But it's for my clients. The podcast is for my clients. So I think keeping myself on track and remembering that I don't have to prove myself and my academic standing within this world was an interesting journey and I could just be myself and just do the work that I love doing for the people that I love doing it for was an interesting one. 

    And when I listened to the first one versus, you know, episode 80, whatever, I think you can really tell the difference in that, both my delivery and you know, at the start I was like, word for word scripting it and then reading it. I'm very good at reading something… 

    MARY: Right, exactly, yes.

    NIC: …as if I'm not reading something because that's being a voiceover,... 

    MARY: That’s right.

    NIC: …so nobody could tell. But towards the end it was much more bullet points. > I wasn't scripting it anymore. So that was an interesting challenge.

    MARY: I love that mindset shift. I went through that too, where when I started the show and even my business in podcasting, because I worked in radio for 20 years, was downsized in 2018. And then I thought, maybe I'll try this podcasting thing. Is this a thing? And I went into it thinking, oh, I need to show that I have the experience. I know what I'm doing. I've, you know, I did this, I did that, and I didn't have the academics behind it. 

    And it feels like that societal hierarchy of if you have a university degree, you are better, you know, people will like you more or whatnot. And I didn't. I went to a two year radio program 20 years ago, like, that, that all gets into your head. And I did the same thing. I scripted a Lot. And sometimes I still do, depending on how busy I am and stuff. Because I am a voiceover artist, I can do that. But yeah, I think when you get to that point of, I'm serving my listeners for my clients, for my people. Yeah, they don't care. It's back to that. Who cares, part. 

    NIC: Yeah. And it's funny, you know, one of the things that people talk most about with my podcast is at the time I had a water bottle that was really squeaky when you took the lid off. And people still come up to me and go, and every time I listen to your podcast, when you take a drink, I take a drink, > you know, like, because I was like, you know, um, I can't be bothered editing this squeak. So every time I need to take a drink of water, I'm going to take a drink of water. We do it together. It's collective, you know, it's like a collective hydration experience. And people always come up to me and go, I've got a squeaky bottle. Or like, you know, it's like Pavlov's dog. Every time they hear a squeak noise, they have to take a drink. > So it's those imperfections that I think can also become the charm.

    MARY: Oh, I love that. Yeah. Because it's, it's an audio medium, so those squeaks work so well. So in that spirit and me still losing my voice, we're going to take a drink, everybody.

    NIC: Let's do it. Cheers. Or as we say in Ireland, sláinte. 

    >

    MARY: Yeah, so helpful. So, so helpful. I, I cannot wait for your show to come back because you're right, I do want just the little tips and the little tricks. So what, what are your podcasting plans?

    NIC: Oh, god, I have been mulling it over for far too long. I'm still mulling. I'm trying to decide whether I want to start a brand new show or whether I want to start, you know, do a limited series under the same banner as the Voice Coach Podcast. I'm not sure. I need to talk to some friends, some podcast friends and see what they think is the best thing to do. > But I have an idea because I'm working a lot more in corporate at the moment.

    MARY: Mhm.

    NIC: So, helping the people who host corporate podcasts to, um, be their best selves on the microphone and show up vocally as the experts and thought leaders that they want to be within their industry. So that's a really empowering, exciting side of the business that I'm moving into. So I'm wondering whether it might be themed or in that I'm not sure.

    MARY: Yes.

    NIC: Still mulling it over. Yeah.

    MARY: It's always going to be like what we were saying, who your listener is. What is that person wanting? Yeah.

    NIC: Yeah. Maybe they just want more tips. Mary, Mary, this is good market research for me. > Just need to get off my arse and onto the microphone and get the voice coach podcast going again.

    MARY: Well, like you said, you wrote the book on it, so you can talk about this endlessly. And I'm sure that it will be so, uh, valuable because I know the podcast as it is right now, now, it has been so valuable for me, so.

    NIC: Oh, thank you. That's so good to know.

    MARY: Yeah. Nic thank you so much for your time and your unofficial medical glasses off diagnosis with my voice. >

    NIC: Yes. Please see a medical professional and, uh, if not responsible for any pathologies, that maybe. There's my disclaimer.

    MARY: Exactly.

    NIC: Do seek professional help.

    MARY: Yes.

    NIC: If your voice changes for more than two weeks.

    >

    MARY: This has been so lovely. Thank you so much.

    NIC: Thank you.

    MARY: Oh, weren't those tips great? Yeah, the slug tongue she mentioned earlier, > like, those tongue twisters get easier after the slug tongue. > It’s a great one to go hand in hand with the lion's roar that I tend to do. I do the trills and the lion's roar. And this is how you do a lion's roar. It has to do with the tongue and all the muscles in your mouth and your jaw. And so you stick the tip of your tongue behind the bottom front teeth. Okay, so the tip of the tongue is at the bottom of your front teeth. You're going to try and stick your tongue out as far as you can and open up your mouth wide like a lion. But that tip of your tongue is still stuck to the back of your lower teeth. Okay. And then you're just going to exhale with a wide mouth and you go. > You're going to make like a lion's roar face, like my eyes, close, my cheeks, wrinkle all of it. Because you're really stretching out the back of your throat as well when you do that. And I find it goes really hand in hand with that slug tongue. 

    Because then you're also working your tongue or trying to relax your tongue, and then the trills is trying to relax your lips. > That is a tough one. But if you can relax your lips, that's what that does. 

    So many great tips from Nic. And I'll be sure to also link her book in the show notes because she says it's got some good pictures if you're a visual aspect person so you can go that way and read her book and look at her pictures. But also in the show notes, I will link to her podcast because like I said, I do listen to her show. She's got some great short episodes with vocal tricks and tips. So get more vocal warm ups through Nic and her podcast. You'll love it. 

    All right, and also just a quick reminder, if you are still listening to this episode before November 1st, or at least the end of the day on November 1st, I still have my giveaway going for a ticket for you to join me at the Podcasting For Business Conference that's happening November 13th through 15th. But on the 14th, right in the middle of it, I'll be on a panel all about using your voice. It's called Your Voice, Using It, Shaping It And Protecting It. And I would love for you to join me at that conference. I'm giving away a free ticket to it. And this is how you enter. 

    What you need to do between now when this episode is published to, uh, the end of the day on November 1st, all you need to do is leave me a voice note from my website because I want you to share your voice. So go to VisibleVoicePodcast.com There's a purple button there that says send voice mail. Click on that and I want you to leave a 90 second voice note from your device. Quickly state your name, where you're calling from, Hello, Mary Chan, long time listener, first time caller. And two, say and complete the following sentence stems, The first time someone said something about my voice, it made me feel, dot, dot, dot, and then end with today, what I love about my voice is, dot, dot, dot. Okay? I say leave a 90 second voice note, but if it cuts you off, feel free to continue on the next one. It's fine, it's fine because I just want you to share your voice. I would love to hear what someone said to you the first time. You were like, oh, my voice. Okay, maybe I won't do that anymore. It's happened to a lot of people, so I just want to hear it. And I would love to hear how you transitioned, through that to today. 

    And then I will draw from all the entries for that free ticket to the podcasting for business conference. Again, it's happening on November 13th through 15th, and it is hosted by Megan Dougherty of One Stone Creative. She was a guest on this podcast. So if you haven't listened to that one yet, that one's just fun because she talks all about research and reports, it's episode number 70. Make sure you get on that because, ooh, actually the 2024 report because I interviewed her, for that episode last year, 2023. But the new 2024 report is coming out this same week. If you are listening to when this podcast first came out at the end of October. So, lots of podcasting reports and information that I'm gonna be delving into. So if you're not into the stats and all that stuff, don't worry, leave it with me. > So, yeah, good luck with winning those tickets with me. Just send me your voice note from my website, VisibleVoicePodcast.com. 

    On the next episode. I want to explore what it means to do less. There's so much overwhelm in the world these days. We're really, really busy in the world of podcasting in your own work, and then there's also your personal life and everything in between. And I've noticed when just talking to podcasters, to other people, just within my networking, creating a business and my friends and family, there is a lot happening and we are all trying to streamline and just do less. What does it mean if we did less and this specifically for a podcast? How do you do less around your show, yet still create episodes that you love? We're going to explore this, the next time, so join me then. 

    >

    >

    MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

    >

    >

    28 October 2024, 9:00 am
  • 15 minutes 39 seconds
    Voice Health: Treat Your Podcasting Instrument With Care - EP 85

    How much do you prioritize your vocal health? Most of us, even if we work in the voice acting, podcasting, or broadcast industries, don’t think too much about our voices. But remember: if you don’t have a voice, you don’t have a podcast!

    In this episode, Mary breaks down what we can all do to take better care of our most important business asset. The solution can’t be to never speak or raise your voice except while you work, but preemptive planning, some mind-body connection, and a little (or a lot of) self-love go a long way to keeping those chords healthy for when you need them.

    Give your voice the TLC it deserves! Listen in to find out:

    • Why glugging water right before you speak doesn’t cut it
    • How to balance those fun, loud nights out with your podcast-related voice work
    • The mental component of taking care of your voice

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Connect with Mary!

    Show Credits:

    Transcript with Audio Description:

    [MUSIC IN - GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS]

    MARY: Your voice is your number one instrument. This is something I talk about a lot. I mean, it's also one of the first things you see on my website, because without your voice, and take it from me, I lost my voice in the middle of September for almost a whole week. Without your voice, you don't have a podcast. So why is it, as podcasters, we don't think about our voice as much as, say, the person we want to interview, or the titles, the artwork, those aspects always get a lot of focus. But your voice, not so much. 

    So in this episode, we’re talking voice. Why it's not exactly what you hear in your head and how we can move forward to record more episodes with more love for your vocal cords and your heart. 

    This is episode 85 of the Podcasters Guide to a Visible Voice. 

    > 

    Welcome back to the show. And like I said at the start, I did lose my voice in the middle of September, 

    [INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

    and I still feel like it's a little dry and scratchy. So bear with me. But I do sound so much better even my daughter was like, you sound like a grumbly bear. Before I was kind of talking like this, and I actually didn't do any talking because I couldn't talk. So when you're a podcaster, it's like, your worst nightmare, losing your voice.

    [MUSIC IN]

    You know, it's funny how most people, even those who work in the industry, like voiceover artists or broadcast media, they don't always think about their voice until they lose it, like I did. I remember one of my coworkers back in the radio days. She hosted a four hour Monday through Friday show, but she lost her voice because she was screaming and having fun at a concert the night before. Long haul voice usage, so talking to people is one thing, but when you're a podcaster, you're actually performing with your voice. That's a totally different thing. That's like presenting, or teaching, or voicing audiobooks, and, yeah, like I said, when we're podcasting, this is when we are being intentional with our voice. 

    Whether you are actually thinking about that on purpose or not, it isn't just about having a conversation. In the back of your mind, you want to make an impact with your podcast episode. So before you get to the, oh, my God, I've lost my voice like I did. 

    Let's talk about prevention. I know, my version of getting sick and losing my voice, that's harder to prevent. You know, you can't prevent the fact that my daughter brought home a cold and then she passed it on to me. That's just part of the September back to school blues. But what I'm talking about is maybe that concert that my coworker was screaming at or talking all night at a loud dinner party, that part, we can do more to nurture our voice. And just whenever we use our voice on a day to day process, we can nurture our voice at any point in time. 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    I think more and more people these days are more aware of hydrating. So drinking water, you know, those Stanley tumblers that have been out on social media, huge water bottles that people are drinking out of, because they want to stay hydrated. But what podcasters might not realize is that you're just not hydrating your body. That also means you're hydrating your voice. But when you drink, the interesting thing that most people often think is that drinking water will immediately hydrate your vocal cords. But really, your vocal cords live in the same world as where you breathe air makes them work, not your digestive system. 

    So when you drink fluids, the water actually isn't coating or washing out your vocal cords. You actually need to hydrate, meaning drink well before you speak in order for that hydration to reach your vocal cords, because what we drink or eat, those fluids need to be transported through the body system in order to be absorbed by cells for it to work, and that could take 24 hours. If you're more of a science nerd, you can read more about it in an article called The Effects Of Hydration On Voice Acoustics from the American Speech Language Hearing association. I'll put that link in the show notes. But, yeah, when we're breathing, we're using our vocal cords, but when we hydrate, we need to drink well in advance. Stay hydrated is what that means. You gotta drink well in advance to make sure that your vocal cords are hydrated. 

    [MUSIC IN]

    So the Internet myth of lemon and honey or gargling salt water won't actually fix your voice. Oh, the Internet. We love busting myths. Rest is also key, and I know you can't just not talk. You know, we still have to do our day to day work. But with some advanced planning, rest could help. 

    For example, you know, you're heading out to a loud restaurant for dinner one night. When you plan your podcast recordings, make sure you give your voice a break. So don't schedule any recordings the day after or even first thing the next morning. Give your voice time to get back to normal. You have to think of your voice like other muscles in your body. You just did a huge workout with it the night before. Talking loudly at that dinner party. So are you going to be doing a marathon the day after? Probably not. 

    So when we have the luxury of time and planning, think about what you've got planned around any big vocal events. And I know vocal events might be hard to grasp, like, okay, concerts, dinner parties, but what else? Sometimes you just never know when you need to speak loudly for long periods of time. And one of those things too is like a networking event. You know, I go to those, but I make sure because they're once a month or what have you. I'm not scheduling anything after that networking event, I'll make sure my voice has time to rest. It's like having a little vocal nap. Naps are lovely, so why not one for your voice? 

    Another vocal event could be like recording a podcast episode. Yeah, you might think, okay, I'm gonna record back to back, to back, to back, so I can just batch record everything and get things out of the way. But are you scheduling time in between to rest? Those vocal cords need a little bit of a rest before you take it out for another workout. So, make sure little voice snaps are scheduled in for you when you're even batch recording podcast episodes. 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    And using your voice goes beyond the physical aspects we've been talking about. Your voice is really multi-layered, and there's always going to be a mental component as well. We worry about every word and how we sound, but imagine being able to strip away all of that. But I know it's easier said than done. When we use our voice all that muck from our past, the subconscious stuff. It all gets kinda in the way. When I use my voice too. I think about all the times my family told me not to say anything because it's quote unquote private. Which in my mind equals to. Should I share this one story on a podcast? Can I talk about this with a friend? When should I hold back? How much do I share? There's some mental gymnastics going on there. Or I might also be thinking about my experiences in grade six. My teacher giving me the nickname motormouth Mary all year. 

    So today I still wonder at times, am I talking too fast? I'm just going on and on and on and on. All that history with your voice comes back every time you do some vocal work, the little nuances creep up. But what I found is that, as you heard, I've made those little connections with my voice story. That grade six moment, my family moments. I've realized how past experiences affect my voice today.

    I can acknowledge it and be quicker at moving past it so that mental gymnastics doesn't take as long and realize things like, nope, not talking too fast. This is just my energy. It's my speed. It's just the way I'm passionate about expressing something. When you know your voice story, you get to rewrite that ending. So we're rewiring our brain at the same time we're doing this. And I've got a great step by step for figuring out your voice story. I talked about that in episode 55, How To Find Your Podcasting Voice. So make sure you listen to that one if you haven't yet. 

    [MUSIC IN]

    Recently, I also had a chat with Andrea Klunder of the Creative Impostor Podcast, all about voice. You can hear the whole conversation on her podcast link in the show notes, of course. But one of the main things I got to was that need to love our voice as much as we love other parts of ourselves, or as much as we love our loved ones in our life. When you're listening back to your episodes, and I recommend that you do want to check out episode 50, Stop Thinking About Yourself, or episode 54, The Process Of What's Working, What's Not Working, And What To Celebrate For Your Podcast. Those are some good ones. If you're not so great about listening back to your episodes anyway. 

    The point is, when you listen back to your episodes, I want you to listen like a friend. What would you say to your voice? Write down those notes as you listen, and write down those examples when it made you go, ooh, that's nice? We don't love our voice enough. So when you're writing down your notes, they're like little love notes to your voice, because your voice is doing a big job every single day, and it's really been underappreciated up until this point. So now that you've got that awareness, what are some little love notes that you're gonna leave for your voice? 

    And if you wanna learn more about how to use your voice, Andrea and I, along with Brienne Hennessy, will be on a panel all about voice, called your voice, using it, shaping it, and protecting it. I would love for you to join us. We'll be at the podcasting for business conference. It's happening November 13 to 15th. It is all online, so this conference is going to be great for you. It was created by Megan Dougherty of One Stone Creative. She was actually a guest on  this very podcast, episode 70, How To Use Research And Reporting To Guide Your Podcast. So make sure you listen to that one. If you haven't listened to Megan yet she is a fount of information. She is the one that's creating the conference. So make sure you head to the link to attend the conference and I'll see you there on my panel about using your voice. Of course, as always, as I've already said, link will be in the show notes.

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    Ooh, also, thank you for listening this far along. I'd also love to give you a free ticket to join us. I have a ticket for the conference for you, so if you would like to enter to win between now, so now, meaning when this episode is published on October the 14th until the end of the day on November 1st, if you want to win a ticket to the conference, all you need to do is leave me a voice note from my website because I want you to share your voice. Head to VisibleVoicePodcast.com, there's a purple send voicemail button to the right of your screen. 

    From there, I want you to leave a 90 second voice note from your device. One, state your name where you're calling from. Two, say and complete the following sentence stems I want you to say, the first time someone said something about my voice, it made me feel dot, dot, dot fill in the blanks and then end with, today, what I love about my voice is dot, dot, dot. This is part of the voice story that I mentioned early on in the episode. So, this is part of the inner work, the mental work that we're doing with our voice, and I would love for you to share that with me, please. So yes, state your name, where you're calling from and then complete the following sentence stems. The first time someone said something about my voice, it made me feel and then end with, today what I love about my voice is. 

    So thank you so much in advance for sending in ah, your voice note, your little love note for yourself, and I'll do a random draw for a free ticket to the podcasting for business conference. So good luck. And again, thank you in advance. 

    [MUSIC IN]

    So I hope this was a good little reminder or love note to you and your voice. Don't forget, stay hydrated, give your voice a nap when it needs it, and I'll see you at the Podcasting For Business Conference online in November. 

    On the next episode, we're going to talk more vocal health and warm ups with Nic Redmond. She shares some really great short exercises to love your voice before you settle in behind the mic. She also gives some really solid tips for when you need to podcast while you're sick. And yeah, it was more personal for me because when I recorded the episode, I was just recovering from losing my voice, and I was still a little scratchy. So you're not gonna want to miss this, it's cold and flu season. We all need these tips, and, uh, they're such great reminders for your voice. So join me next time with Nic Redmond. We're gonna talk vocal health and voice warm ups. We'll talk to you then.

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    >

    MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

    >

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    14 October 2024, 9:00 am
  • 41 minutes 20 seconds
    Simplify Your Workflow to Keep Your Podcasting Passion Alive with Craig Constantine - EP 84

    How do conversation skills make your podcast process more enjoyable? Even if we’re lucky enough to “do what we love,” work tends to have tedious aspects we don’t like. Craig Constantine is a passion podcaster who, through the creation of thousands of episodes and rigorous reflection, has built a workflow that simplifies every step of his method, from prep to publication.

    A consummate conversationalist, Craig’s overarching goal is to use understanding and compassion to have exciting exchanges that inspire listeners to dive directly into meaningful dialogues. In this episode, he gets into the nitty-gritty of the personal process that led him to discover his devotion to podcasting.

    Let Craig’s passion inspire you to:

    • Understand the difference between compassion and empathy in conversation

    • Consider why you might not want to bring your prepared questions into the conversation

    • Approach AI tools to create the perfect research assistant

    • Simplify your process to make it more fun in the long run

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Engage with Craig:

    Connect with Mary!

    Show Credits:

    Transcript with Audio Description:

    >

    MARY: Every podcast is unique, not only in its content, but also how you produce and create it. That workflow that I've talked about before, no one way is the right way or wrong way to create a podcast. And that's actually what I love about today's guest Craig Constantine. 

    He's all about his passion project, podcasts of having conversations. His goal of having a podcast will be different from yours, but what I really resonated with him is his desire to audit his own workflow. What's working for him before, during, and after the recording. 

    Craig Constantine, who's on a mission to create better conversations, to spread understanding and compassion, is a passionate podcaster. He does a lot of things that I know podcasters want to do, but never make the time to do it. So he's here to share how he's got multiple shows to his name with hundreds and hundreds of conversations published to share his podcasting journey. You can hear the passion in his voice for the work and the dialogue that he wants to have. So take a listen to this episode on how he analyzes his podcast to make things simpler for his world and how you can make similar reflections on yours. 

    This is episode number 84 of the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice.

    > 

    MARY: Craig, thank you so much for coming on the show. We've had a great little preamble so far, so I know this is going to be a good one.

    >

    CRAIG: Oh, no pressure. But thank you so much for inviting me. You get the prize for, of all the people who ever asked me to be on their show, you're the one who worked the hardest. So thank you so much for that.

    >

    MARY: A lot of logisticals behind the scene, and, you know, personal schedules and stuff.

    CRAIG: You actually hunted me down. You asked me through a service that we're both on, and I totally ghosted you, like a lot of people. And then you went and found my website and found my contact form and emailed me, and I'm like, wow, all right, this person is motivated. Yes, I want to be on the show.

    MARY: Well, what you do is intentional practice of conversations, and I think that is so unique because a lot of people find podcasting as like, oh, I can talk, I'll just plug a microphone in and start talking. > But what is intentional conversation? Why is it so important to you?

    CRAIG: Well, it's important to me because I found myself having more and more really great conversations, and that's like a whole separate story. And the more that I learned how to shut up and listen, which took me longer than it should have, the more I shut up and listened, the more I enjoyed the conversations and the more other people seemed to enjoy them. And then the people lurking around it enjoyed them too. 

    So I started wondering, well, this isn't new. Humans have been doing this for a long time. And the more that I looked into it, now I have a books problem. You know, like, oh, here's a book from 150 years ago where somebody had all these things. And then I started having conversations that I was intentionally picking challenging guests. Not that the people were challenging, but, like, I have no knowledge about the topic we're going to have this conversation about, then, what would the skills be that I would need to have that be a good conversation when I'm totally floundering every second of the way? 

    And I'm like an autodidact nerdy self learner. So it works well for me to be like, whoa, that sucked. That was horrible. And then I, like, write down, why did suck? What was wrong with it? How could I make it better? So I'm always preaching, like, you know, take notes and reflect, um, on your conversations, reflect on your life in general, and figure out, could I try something different next time? Or maybe that just, it happened. The bird flew into my head. That, that went weird.

    MARY: So then what do you need then to have a conversation? Because, you know, you were saying, I stopped talking, so I listened. But when people think of dialogue, well, you gotta talk. So how do you define that art of conversation?

    CRAIG: That's a really hard question. That's two different questions. How do I define the art of conversation? I'm gonna ignore how I define it. That's hard. I would say that you actually, you don't really have to talk for it to be a good conversation. And a lot of times when I'm having conversations with people, they are already aware of my, my issues of, like, wanting to dig into the meta. 

    But even when I'm talking to people who don't know anything at all about me, they have an agenda and the real question is, when you're having a conversation with someone, is the other person aware of their own agenda? That's really, like, determines are we going to have a spectacular conversation. So Mary has ideas about where this conversation is supposed to go, ideas about what she wants the two of us to find here for the people who are listening. So that's like the biggest switch or choice. Like, when I'm having a conversation with someone, I'm, as best I can, always intentional about why I'm here, what I'm saying, why I'm saying, and I'm always curious, like, what is the other person thinking when they started talking? Were they just talking at me because they haven't seen me in a week, or are they really interested in something? 

    So that's like, the first thing is like, are both people on the same page about what does it mean to have a good conversation? Some people, they just talk. I'm not saying that's bad. It's just, you know, that's a deli conversation that's going to be a little more shallow maybe, or a little different.

    MARY: Yeah. What about then in the role of podcasting? That being intentional piece, do you then prep your questions and you have your set questions, or do you allow that conversation to unfold? Because, like you said, everyone's got an agenda.

    CRAIG: Yes. It depends on what you mean by you. So if you mean, does Craig? I generally don't write down my questions anymore in the very, very beginning, which would be like 2017. So I was kind of late to the party, but when I started, yes, I used to be intentional about, the show was all about movement, I would be intentional about, I'm going to talk to this person because I have this question or this story I want to know. And I would write down my questions, and I would imagine, like if I wasn't thinking story arc, but I was kind of imagining a story arc about, I want to start here and then I want to go here, and I want to end over there if I can. 

    So in the beginning, yes, I totally did that. And I got heavily involved in coaching podcasters. I've literally helped thousands of people as an assistant coach in courses. And that's a very good question for people to ask. So I say yes, in the beginning, write literally, preferably with a pencil, not like typing on your computer, because writing is different than typing. 

    MARY: Yeah, 

    CRAIG: Write your questions out in whatever your chicken scratch looks like. And then when you get to the recording, don't bring your notes. That's what I tell people, because the notes will distract you. I have a blank piece of paper on the table in front of me just in case I need to write something down. But when you go into those recordings as the host, all of that homework that you did, you're not going to forget it. It's going to be in the back of your head. 

    So I would say yes, I used to write things down, and I do recommend that that's a great place to start. And then eventually I can hold the questions in my head for weeks. I think about someone, you know, and I listened to one of your episodes as I was preparing for this, and I had, oh, that's interesting. And I see the kinds of things that Mary is attracted to, and I feel like I have enough things in my head that I could, I don't want to, but we could probably flip this around, and I could probably, you know, be the host if I had to, but I don't want to. > That's, if you ask Craig, how Craig does it, how does everybody else do it? I don't think people write their questions down based on what I hear, When I hear people.

    MARY: Certain shows, there are some shows where it's like, bam, bam, bam, question, question. There was, like, no follow up. And I feel like, yeah, that's not good either.

    CRAIG: Right. That's the other problem. That's the opposite of prepared.

    MARY: Yeah, exactly. So then if you don't write your questions, it feels a lot to me, too, about when I worked in radio, we called this show prep. You know, it's all about being prepared and kind of knowing, like you said, that agenda. But having the follow up questions are the sparks in that conversation. So do you then, have, like, a toolbox of ways to guide a conversation, or like,... 

    CRIAG: Oh yeah.

    MARY: …those. Oh yeah? Yeah. Okay, What is that? 

    CRAIG: So there's a whole bunch of them, and rather than try to rattle them off, but just kind of, like, paint kind of what they are.

    MARY: Yeah.

    CRAIG: I have these ideas in mind about, I have a visual, I live, like, 2 hours from Manhattan, so I've been there a bunch of times. And if you ever walk down Broadway is, like, the biggest street, you can walk the whole length of the place. I imagine that in conversations, I'm walking with someone. 

    So if I'm talking with someone and something strange happens, like, they ask me a question that I wasn't expecting, or they give me a strange answer, or they stopped, like, something weird happens. I'm imagining they, like, turned left into a side street. And my reaction needs to be not, wait, where are you going? Yeah, come back. My reaction needs to be, well, that's interesting. And follow, like, go with them. So I'm always trying to listen, air quoting is useless, you can't even see. I'm trying to listen not only to the words that they're saying, but the emotions that they're conveying. The emotions maybe they're trying to convey, which could be different, and try to imagine what is the experience that that person is having. 

    So I'm always yammering about my mission is about creating better conversation to spread understanding and compassion and empathy is close, but I think empathy is a thing that might come later after understanding and compassion. And I feel like that is what I'm trying to do, is I'm trying to deploy understanding and compassion as a tool. 

    So in a conversation, when something weird happens, I'm thinking, do I understand? Like, that's my first thought is, do I really understand what just happened here? Like, maybe I don't understand and I should ask a question about what just happened here. So I have, like, lots of nerdy tools that I can bring up, but they all fit in that toolbox of my first, you know, do I understand? And then, am I being compassionate? Is this person freaking out because Craig's too energetic for them? Like, that happens to people. I understand.

    MARY: You mentioned empathy, and I feel like empathy is very similar to compassion.

    CRAIG: Yes.

    MARY: So how do you differentiate that?

    CRAIG: The way that I think of it is that empathy is about the feeling and compassion is about, I don't want to say doing something about it, but imagining what could be done, either generally or that I should be doing. So, empathy, if you're empathic and you can't distance yourself from that, that's really hard. That's people who, like, if the elections go bad and then they have, like, a nervous breakdown, I’m like, well, okay, I mean, you're feeling for those other people, but you really need to be able to control that. You have to have boundaries. You have to be able to protect yourself physically and emotionally. 

    So, empathy, I think of as like, a feelers reaching out, sensitivity. And even I would say I'm pretty empathic. But even if you're really empathic, you really never know. You really can't say, I know what you're feeling, but that would be the goal, would be to feel outward. And then the compassion is, all right if I understand what's going on and I have some empathy for the person, the situation, or whatever we're talking about, then I might, if I'm a compassionate person, I might begin to imagine, is there something I could do about that? Could I help that person pick up whatever they dropped? Or could I donate money to this charity? Or could I help push this car out of a snowbank? That's the kind of thing that I do because I'm a large guy, you know. 

    But if you didn't have empathy for the person who was stuck in the snowbank, you'd just be like, sucks to be you. And you'd walk right by, you know? So that's why when I wrote my mission. That's why I wrote compassion rather than empathy, because I feel like empathy, I don't want to say it's easier, but I felt like I already had enough empathy and I wanted to work on the compassion part. So very, the mission is very specific to me, of course.

    MARY: What about then, if you're in a conversation with someone and you don't agree?

    CRAIG: That depends on why I'm in the conversation. So I don't do journalistic interviews, just because it's not my cup of tea. But I've listened to a lot of journalists talk about their process. And, yeah, if you're a journalist and you're supposed to be getting facts or truth or you're trying to, you know, uncover a particular story, if people say something you disagree with, you need to push back, and you can push back nicely. You can ask clarifying questions. You can, you know, throw in juxtapose. I thought it was X. You can make jokes. There are ways to reveal questions without actually asking questions, which then lets the two of us stand in one place and point at the question over yonder without it getting very antagonistic. 

    So there are things you can do to sort of direct, or in this case, redirect the conversation where you hope it would go. But that's not normally what I do because I'm not a journalist looking for something I don't have, like a target I'm aiming for, which kind of cuts both ways. Not having a target makes it harder because I think it would be easier if I knew where I was supposed to be going. So I don't often find myself in situations where, no, that's wrong, and I need to get you to tell me the other thing, so. 

    MARY: Yeah, it's just a matter of, okay, yes, you've said what you've said now. Oh, I'm going to ask you this question to, to redirect.

    CRAIG: Yeah, ask more questions. Ask different questions. You were asking for about tools earlier. I sometimes talk about people's salience, the word salience. Humans are spectacular at noticing salience. I always say I'm afraid of three kinds of snakes, little snakes, big snakes, and any stick that looks anything at all like a snake. So snake fear and, like, falling. These are wired in. 

    So there are other things, in conversations when you're listening to someone and you have an agenda and a story arc and a plan, and your brain suddenly goes, wait, what? And, like, it grabs these two things. The thing that you thought you were going to ask about and the thing that just lit you up, you have these two. Those things are related. I'm telling you, they are. That's what your brain just went, these are related. And you could just say, I wonder if these two things are related. You can just say that I do that and give people two, you know, like cheese and sneakers, and people will go, huh, that's a really good question. And then they'll think about it, and it's. 

    Conversations are just people sharing ideas. There's no rules about my ideas have to follow logically and clearly from the last. It can be whatever two people want to share. So I really feel like people, like I've said, I've seen a lot of people do this. A lot of people take courses and say, how do I do interviews? They really undervalue this magical, I don't want to say device, because your brain's not a computer, but, like, this magical power that you have about identifying the things that light you up. That already works. So that's probably what your podcast is about. If you have a day job as a journalist, then you got to work a little harder, because now you have to. You have to aim those tools at a specific. My producer said, I must do X.

    MARY: Yes.

    CRAIG: Just a little harder.

    MARY: Yeah. Like you were saying we're not computers, right? This. This isn't an AI interview.

    CRAIG: Whew, good.

    MARY: You know, we are humans. We have emotion. We have feelings in our bodies that will then guide us to. Okay, what is that curiosity piece? What is that follow up question?

    CRAIG: Why am I upset all of a sudden?

    MARY: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, like, go with that feeling in your body and make sure that, you say it out loud.

    CRAIG: Yeah. A lot of times, just naming the thing goes a long way toward helping both parties understand, because sometimes people say something and, you know, somebody's triggered, and if you're really good at hiding that, well, that's not helping anybody. I mean, maybe if you're really triggered, you're trying to leave the space. Okay. But if it's the kind of thing that can be discussed, people can't read minds. I used to make that error a lot. I'm like, the other person opposite me is fuming. And I don't know.

    MARY: Yep. You can still hear it in their voice, even though you can't see them fuming. Like in the podcasting world.

    CRAIG: Yeah. Audio is magical.

    MARY: Yeah. Is magical that way, for sure. 

    Let's move into a little bit with your podcasting journey. You have two active shows right now. Even one show is a lot, like, how. How do you manage all of this?

    CRAIG: Oh, I actually have. Well, if you want to count accurately, I have five active shows. 

    MARY: You have five active, oh geeze. 

    >

    CRAIG: Okay. All right. So how do I manage it? I have a pride problem. I love, you know, shiny things. I love to go after them. 

    So the very first show that I created, I did not set out to make a podcast. I didn't say, I want to become a podcaster. This is the thing I want to do. I was literally having cool conversations in movement spaces. I would be out, like, in London running and jumping and playing with people at an event or doing a thing, and then I'm the kind of person who just walks up to someone and says, whoever they are, oh, hey, and we start talking. 

    And then I turn around, there's people walking behind us because I'm talking to somebody semi-famous. And then they say, you should have recorded that. I would have listened to that. That's literally how I got into podcasting. Then I was like, well, I guess I should get some SM58 mics and a little interface. I just started basically pressing record on conversations that I was having. So I'm super lucky, super privileged that that happened to me. 

    So that's how I started into it in 2017. And I did, like, 40 episodes with no clue what I was doing. Just like, you know, like, I don't know, let's try this. I had a friend who knew how to edit. I'm like, hey Brian, and he's like, use this mic and get this interface. And, you know, like, people just giving me tips. And I went about, like, 35 or 40 episodes along. And then I took a course. And I took the course not, and it's. It was a sofa, I call it sofa to 5K. I had a podcast course, and I already knew all that. I had 40 episodes out.

    MARY: Yeah.

    CRAIG: But I wanted to completely tear it apart, and I did. I took it all apart, and I, like, changed the descriptions, and the course made me think about things differently. It was one of the greatest things I ever did. And I met a whole bunch of people who were passionate about podcasting. That was the third time they ran the course. I went back as an assistant coach for 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11, for the runnings of the course, till they stopped the course. 

    And along the way, I kept having more ideas. So the first show was, I was having conversations. People wanted to hear them. But the next show which came out, I was like, I wonder what would happen if you did a daily podcast. That was just me for 30 seconds reading a quote every day and didn't tell anybody. Just, like, stealth launched the thing. So I did 1,400 episodes of that show. 

    And then while that show was going on, I started a podcasting community, and I started interviewing the other podcasters in the community and working my way up with, like, who should I talk to after I did a show? And that show was all about podcasting. 

    So once I fell backwards into it and figured out how to do it, then it became this. Like, I imagine painters might just, oh, I got a paint. They run to the easel and they start painting. And, like, I do that with podcasting. I, like, I run to the microphone and I start making. Or I get people and I make a recording. So that's how I wound up with all these shows. It's really not any harder to have five shows. It's just, how many episodes are you doing? That's all that really matters.

    MARY: Yes.

    CRAIG: So, uh, you also, I haven't forgotten, you asked me, how do I do it? But if you want to follow up on that before I tell you how I do it. Or I can just tell you how I do it.

    MARY: Yeah, how do you do it?

    CRAIG: How do I do it? I'm a checklist and process nerd. So I have, for every one of the shows, I have a separate document that I maintain that tells me every detail. Like, this is the, you get an e nine minor guitar chord, goes here as the music bumper, and then the intro, and it has every step all the way through to emailing the guests at the end to say, thank you, your show is published. Here's the, you know, please share. 

    And if you do ten of those, then you'll be editing your list. And then the list gets a little more detailed. And eventually, all of the things that used to make me get stuck, I don't want to do the editing. I’m, I don't like editing. Oh, I don't want to do the show notes. All these things that I get stuck on. I just kept making it simpler. What's the simplest thing that could possibly work? And that's what I, and I broke it down to more and more steps until, when I look at the checklist, I have an episode that you go out sometime this week, and the next checkbox is so easy. I'm like, you know, I could totally do that, that I could do that. 

    And that's. That was how I broke it down, was to just make it simple enough that I could find a simple next step for whatever was going on. And then the checklist helped me remember. So if I'm not doing anything for three weeks. When I come back. Oh, right, here's where I was. Here's how I start, here's how I finish.

    MARY: What's an example of making it simpler? What does that mean?

    CRAIG: So we were talking about AI before. I use ChatGPT to write the episode notes. Shhh. I say that at the bottom, I wrote, written with, actually, it's written with help from ChatGPT.

    MARY: Yes. I was just going to say, I like that you have it written down.

    CRAIG: I'm a computer nerd, but I'm not an AI. Like to me, I was like everybody else, a what? How do you work this? I had no clue. But I have a checklist that helps me prompt the AI to give me what I want. So just like little nuances of sentences, like I'm resisting urge to open it up and read them, but it's like these really detailed, like, I want, say, I want one sentence to be the hook sentence for the thing that might be like 120 word paragraph that I've slowly fiddled with and kept in a document. 

    So now when I learn what the hook sense, that it's like copy, paste, and it actually says, write me five variations of a sentence and then it tells it what to do and then it writes me five sentences and I look at them and none of them are good enough. But somebody, once I forget where this comes from, somebody said, working with AI fixes the blank page problem, so you should totally use it for everything because it will do a terrible job and you will rush to fix it’s work. And it gets me going every time. 

    So like, I rush and I'm like, no, no, you cannot use the word delve. No, no, no, edit the sentence, right? And then I edit my instructions and I say, you may not use the word delve. Put that in the instructions. So now when I have to write episode notes for like, say, a 15 minute conversation, I'm like, I can do that in 3 minutes. Watch this. > And I'm all done, you know, copy and paste and, and I have to edit, you know, like everybody has their personal writing style. I don't bother to try and make it do my style. I just edit the thing. I look at the paragraph and I go, hey, I don't like this part. Edit it. And then at the bottom I just write, written with help from ChatGPT. 

    I tell everybody who asks, like podcasters. It's like having the greatest research assistant. This person is tireless. They have infinite patience. No matter how many dumb questions I ask, they're just like, here's your answer. You can, like, just ghost them for two weeks, come back, they pick up right where you left off without a single. As long as you realize it's really more about, I think of it like the first stage on the rocket launch. Get me moving, get me off the ground here so I can get a feel for what this thing is supposed to be. And that's what I use it for.

    MARY: What about not AI? What can you make simpler? That has nothing to do with AI, because that's what everybody's talking about these days.

    CRAIG: I stopped editing my shows. How about that one? If you've listened to, so the one show is called Movers Mindset is 170 episodes. I think Podtalk is at 150 or something like that. And basically the last hundred plus maybe 150 episodes on those two shows that I've released. I don't edit the audio. 

    Now, full disclosure, I'm actually hard of hearing. I have hearing aids and crappy hearings. I'm a terrible audio editor to begin with, but I also can't afford to pay ninety cents a minute to edit all this stuff. So I went, well, what if I had a conversation that was so good, there wasn't anything that had to be cut out? How would you do that? Yes, and then work on that for 300 conversations. I've done about 500 recorded conversations for my shows, for other shows, not counting my guesting appearances. And every time I do them, I listen back and I'm like, why did I say that? Why didn't I shut up? > Because a lot of times the guest is about to say the great thing, and I'm still like, wait, you got to hear me. It's like, no, I'm the host. Shut up. 

    So I've looked at, like, exactly what percentage of myself, when I'm the host, do I want in the audio? The answer is 25%. I want one quarter Craig and three quarters of the guest. And I occasionally drop that into Otter, which will give you a percentage speaker rating. And I make sure I'm at the target number that I want. And if I'm over or under, then I think about that for my next conversation. 

    So, if you don't want to edit, could you just make the conversations better? Could you screen out people who are poor speakers unless you really need them? Like, there can be issues sometimes. I won't really want to guess because I want that representation. I really want this voice to be heard of. So I'm willing to live with thumbs and aahs and pauses. Just put it out raw you know, edit the levels, run the anti white noise background thing, 30 seconds. I mean, sometimes I'm, I have a 45 minutes conversation. It takes me five minutes to go from raw audio to mp3, final mix down, including the time it takes my Mac to make the mp3. It's, you know, because otherwise I wouldn't get it done if I didn't cut that corner. 

    And there are other ones, like, I stopped doing introductions in the guest. Like, I never, when I'm recording, I never ask the guest to tell me who they are. Tell us, no, that's a disaster. And I don't. I don't read that in anymore for a while. I would open the show by saying, oh, my guest today is. I skipped all that. I got tired of recording intros and outros because I actually don't think people listen to them. So I skip them. My show opens, and I say, Hello, I'm Craig Constantine. There's like a sentence or two of what the show is. And then I asked the guest the first question, and we just have a conversation.

    There are other things about, oh, I can only do so much social media. So I have a WordPress plugin. I hit a button, and it just posts the three platforms. And then I'm like, good enough. Yep. I'm not making short form. I figured out how to do YouTube auto load from RSS. Good enough.

    MARY: Done. Yes.

    CRAIG: Moving on. I just looked at every single thing on the list that was in my head, and I went, this is stressing me out. Write it down. And then when I looked at the list written down, I identified, I can't do this. This is too much. I want to have hundreds, thousands of great conversations, and I don't want to do all these pieces. So delete pieces until I only want to do the part between record and stop and anything else that I absolutely have to, to make the show go out.

    MARY: And I think that's the difference, too, between people who are podcasting as a passion, like you do, or those who are like, I need to generate income, so I have to do X, Y, and Z, right? So it's like talking about that agenda piece. You were, you were saying at the very beginning, it's like, what is your goal for your podcast? So what would you define as success, then, for your podcast?

    CRAIG: Oh. Sometimes people can read each other's minds. I was listening to some of your shows, and that's a question you ask often because it's super important. And I'm like, this would be the spot where we need to talk about what Craig thinks success is. 

    Success, in my opinion, for my shows is so for the two shows that have guests, if somebody listens to an episode and then they manage to email in real life, whatever, talk to the guest and they can skip over the parts that make conversations suck and go right to the good part. That's the definition of success for my show. 

    So one of the shows is all about parkour and has french names and all these things, and there's people who run and jump and play all over the world, and everybody's pretty famous that I'm talking to. If they, somebody runs into that person and says, hey. And just goes right to the part of the conversation where both of them are enjoying it. Not, my guest, who's semi famous is like, oh, another fan. But where the fan comes up and says something and that person goes, oh, yeah, I'd love to talk about that. 

    Like, that's my definition of success. People listen to the episodes that I did, and that enables them to have a better conversation with that person, even if it's just email or, you know, direct messaging or whatever. That may be a weird definition of success, but it turns out to be hard to do that. But it only means I have to have a certain kind of conversation. It doesn't mean that I have to advertise or, you know, kill myself in editing, I hope.

    >

    MARY: Yeah.

    CRAIG: That nobody listens.

    MARY: That's always the podcaster problem. 

    CRAIG: Yeah.

    MARY: Nobody's listening.

    CRAIG: Well, there's only one problem and lots of problems.

    MARY: So what are some other problems that you have with podcasting?

    CRAIG: Uh, I spend too much time on it. Spend too much time on it. It's like I have an embarrassment of riches. So I understand. I'm not claiming this is weird, but I understand why people say they're nervous about reaching out to guests. I do not have that problem. I'm a computer nerd. I have something like 600 guests. I'm not exaggerating in queues. And I wrote software that mails me weekday mornings that suggests, you know, you mailed this person three weeks ago and they never got back to you, so you probably should message them again. Like, I wrote software to keep track of all that, so that I can just turn the crank. I do the fun part, which is, new email, Hey, Bob, would you like to be on the show? Or like that kind of thing? 

    People mention a guest to me and I put it in a certain little config file, and I don't forget, two years later, it comes up. And then when I look at the notes, I know who recommended them. And maybe I, maybe they said, I'd really like to hear them talk about X. Like, I figured out a way to capture that stuff. You can do it with pieces of paper or excel spreadsheet, whatever you like. 

    I think a lot of the struggle with guest outreach is in it's just an infinite number of threads. Like, it's complex, and it's always going to be complex. Don't put your friends into customer relationship management software. That doesn't make it better. So I just figured out, well, what would this have to be for me to enjoy doing this? 

    So I have, the other problem is, if I turn that crank, if I start messaging people, I can do like five touches in a day in like ten minutes, because I just send an email, send a thing, go to whatever platform they're on. You do that for a few days, then people start showing up in your calendar. And like, that's the other side is make sure people can schedule themselves in using Calendly or something. 

    If I'm not careful, all of a sudden it takes about two to three weeks. Three weeks out, all of a sudden it's like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, I have all these podcast recordings scheduled. And even if I say one show per day, I can still wind up with two or three on one day because I have multiple shows. > That's my problem. I removed all of the sticky points, and I really wasn't paying attention to that means it's all going to go really fast. So I have to like, woah, slow down and try to keep it under control.

    MARY: Wow, you definitely have a very unique challenge.

    >

    CRAIG: Nice choice of words that you're going to say, that’s very special.

    MARY: Earlier you were talking about, you got a lot of advice. You give advice about podcasting. So what was one advice that you got that did, you know, good. You're like, you know what, this is an advice that's out in the podcasting space, don't follow it.

    CRAIG: Oh, well, it's, uh, a similar version of that. Question is, what's something I disagree with that everybody else would be mad at me, and that's that you have to publish on a schedule. That's the piece of advice that I patently, I started on that at one point, I had a show that was all over the map, and I actually had hired someone to work on my team. I said, job one, get me on a schedule, which meant get the guest work and all that stuff. And I got on a schedule and I published every week for like a year and a half. I have completely given up, I don't care about, I don't care about schedules. So I said, like, mary, when was my last episode put out?

    MARY: I'd have to look, I don't know.

    CRAIG: Right? I mean, even if you went and listened, it's okay if you didn't. I don't think Craig is that interesting. But, even if somebody goes and listens to one of my shows, thing they look at is not the publication date. They go to the chronological list. They want to listen to the most recent one. Maybe they scroll back and listen to the trailer, or maybe they search for a word. 

    So I think that the advice to get yourself on a schedule. Okay. If it's your first episode, yes. Get on a schedule for five or ten or something, seven. But have it in your mind that you're planning on getting off the schedule, or you're at least planning on slowing way down. Because weekly, if you're. If you're, like, a one man band, and if you're doing things by all by yourself, weekly is insane.

    MARY: Oh, yeah.

    CRAIG: Even if it's hostile, weekly is like the treadmill. So I, I think that's the advice that it's super useful if someone is literally starting out on the sofa to 5K journey of podcasting. Yes. You need to imagine how do I, because it teaches you to close the loop. If I start here and I got to do all these steps, and I got to be done by next week, because I got to do it all over again, and then you start to think, oh, can I do the guest outreach in parallel? So I was working multiple guests, could I work ahead? So I got one or two in the can I. It teaches you those things. But then once you learn those lessons, then let go of having to publish on a schedule is my advice that I think didn't serve me because I took the course and people said that, and I was at 40, and I was like, yeah, I already want to get off this.

    >

    MARY: Get off this, because it is a lot of work and a lot of pressure on yourself to make sure it goes out at a certain day and time.

    CRAIG: Yeah. And, like, your die hard listeners, I've had people talk about. We talk about feedback and hearing from your fans. I've had people come up to me at, like. Like, I bump into them in person, and they talk about the show, and I've had people say to me, I can't keep up. Like, sometimes they drop, like, three or four in one week, and people are like, what are you doing? I can't listen to all this. It's too much content.

    MARY: That is a lot!

    CRAIG: Well, it is, but from my side, it's not. And I just had. It was a 30, 40 minutes conversation. I had a blast. It was awesome. And then I blasted through the post production, right? Sometimes I'm done, and if I'm really flying, I can be done in 45 minutes. I hit stop. The guest hasn't even, like, finished with their. You know, and I'm like, I'm done. It's crazy.

    MARY: So wait, why not then? Wait. Like, okay, if you've got this back, not back log. Like, then why not schedule?

    CRAIG: Because then the next week, I did three more, and then the next week I did three. Was like, well, there's another scheduled to, you know, never. And I also. I felt bad sometimes. I don't know, there's something about it. Everybody says, you always love all of your children the most. And every one of them, when I'm done with them, I'm like, that's the best thing I've ever created that has to go out right now. 

    It's part of my drive to make and do and create. And I feel like when I hit stop, I'm doing a disservice. I'm sitting on something I shouldn't be sitting on. And I have had some weird situations where I had some that I sat on for, like, ten months because I get nervous about that. Like, why isn't this done, well, because I can't get a transcript from the thing. I got stuck on details. 

    So, I really just love. I don't know, I love the feeling of, wow, I had a great conversation, and now everybody else can hear it with as little time between those two statements as I can get.

    MARY: Okay then, I'm checking out the time. Like, I had scheduled a certain amount of time with you, but then it got me thinking, then, do you schedule, like, a certain amount of time, or do you just let this conversation go? Because, like, I think I can talk to you for hours, right? And I literally mean that, you know, people say that on shows, but, you know, there has to be an end.

    CRAIG: Oh, I guess this is like a whole nother show. Okay, so I will say, yeah, you got 60 seconds before the time you allotted. However, I do not have a hard stop. So you could, if you want to record a second shows worth of material, knock yourself out. 

    Here's what I will say. People often ask if they're. If they're good podcasters, it occurs to them to ask, how do I have a good ending to my conversation? How do I have a good ending to my show, if I have a host and guest situation, and I always say, well, the first thing you can do is cross off anything that you know that won't work. 

    So, if you want to have a good ending, do not stop when the show sucks. > Right? So the friction and this is good. You always want to feel this as a host when you're on your show. This is great. This is where we should stop when you feel that tension of, this is awesome because people are going to slap their headphones off and go, that was awesome. And they're going to be like, they're going to go talk to somebody about the show or they're going to share it or whatever. 

    I mean, maybe don't stop right in the middle of an idea. But that part where we all want to go, wow, that was great. Now what do I ask? Oh, wait, there's more, Mary, let's talk about that. Don't do that. Just go, that was awesome. Thanks so much, Mary. It was a pleasure talking to you today. And hit stop. Hit stop when you're going is great, and you'll be good. Then there are a couple other little tips. Conversations go in, I call them saccades, not cicadas, the insect. Saccades, is a reference to how you move your eyes when you're reading. I don't know if people talk about cicadas in conversation, but, um, I'm doing it. There's a saccade to conversation. It's follow the bouncing ball, and it's about 20 minutes per hop on a conversation.

    MARY: I've heard about that. Yeah, yeah.

    CRAIG: And you might need to do people going, what? You might need to do a few hundred conversations to get out your metrics and look at the things. And what happens is, if you just let that bouncing ball go, you can't really stop at 30 if you're in the middle of a bounce and you can't really stop at the 20 minutes because that's the sucky part in the middle where you need to have a follow up question to get us back to the >. 

    So that’s another thing is to understand, like, as a host on your show, understand some of the dynamics of conversation. Have your, have your conceptual head only if you can manage it. Only half in the show, half out of the show, watching the clock, knowing what you wrote that you wanted to get to, that you haven’t got to yet. So, you know, oh, I have to get this one more thing. The next bounce of the saccade is going to be this. If you can manage to stay out. That’s hard. Then that lets you have some of that. You know, you can have your head. You like old gopher, you know, like you stand up, you look around a little bit. Okay, let's go back into the next 20 minutes. So that's the, those are the things that I think about when I'm trying to figure out where to stop. 

    Really. Just don't stretch. You get to the end and it's awesome, and somebody says something profound, just say, that was awesome.

    MARY: That was awesome, Craig.

    CRAIG: But I did it on purpose. 

    MARY: I know.

    CRAIG: But, like, it's tough to do that when you're ahead. When you're really as a host, if you're having an awesome conversation, you get completely lost. That's good tape.

    MARY: So, yeah, that is. But I always end my show with the same question, and I'm going to let you go. So my last question for you is, what are you excited about podcasting right now?

    CRAIG: I totally should have prepared for that because I heard that what am I excited about podcasting? Well, in case people couldn't tell, I'm not excited about anything. I'm really excited about more people are starting to want to talk to me about conversation, and that's great because that means that I'm either, well I'm going to say I'm not doing something offensive. At least it means that things aren't going badly pessimistic. 

    So I'm really excited about having the chance. It's been happening more often to have conversations like this, where the whole thing is very meta about conversation. So that's really kind of makes me want to start another show. > I'm going to do more of this, but I'm not going there. So that's what I'm going to say. I'm really excited about and getting back, I was mentioning before I was sick, so I'm, like, on a pause at the moment. So I'm excited to get back to having more conversations, but it's really. I feel like I'm getting more interest in talking about talking.

    MARY: Yeah, I think that's what we need, because it's that human connection that we're all craving, you know?

    CRAIG: Oh, yeah.

    MARY: So thank you so much for this human connection with me and for the conversation.

    >

    CRAIG: My distinct pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.

    MARY: Thanks so much, Craig. I love the enthusiasm in his voice and for the work that he does. And, you know, during the conversation, he mentioned saccades and following the bouncing ball. I love that he brought up how conversations cycle through around 20 minutes, and we talked about this before, actually, in a previous episode with Steph Fuccio in number 51, we talked about Honing Your Podcast Voice Through Second Language Learning, and Steph had done similar research as well. She mentioned that same phenomenon around 20 minutes for a conversation. So if you want to revisit that episode number 51, the link is in the show notes. 

    So after listening to this conversation, what advice would you take from Craig's podcasting journey for your own show? Now, like I said on the show in the beginning, his podcast is a passion project and his success is not going to be the same as your success. So we're not saying you need to follow what he is doing. Like the way how he doesn't schedule. Scheduling is important to some people because it provides them structure and to make sure they do things so that they go out. Craig's really great at finding out what works for him, so I hope this episode makes you think about what could potentially really work for you. It's his idea of making things simpler. That's what he found works for him. But what does that mean for you? 

    Send me a voice note with your feedback at VisibleVoicePodcast.com. you'll find the purple button that says send voicemail. From there, click on that, send me your feedback, and let me know what would be simpler for your podcasting workflow. Or as always, you can email me as well [email protected]. 

    On the next episode we're talking voice tips. How do we embrace our voice as a tool? We think of podcasting as an easy thing to do where you can plug in your microphone and just start talking, but it's not as easy as that. We'll explore more of your voice next time.

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    MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the podcaster's guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

    >

    >

    30 September 2024, 9:00 am
  • 16 minutes 34 seconds
    Podcast Manners Matter: Setting Guest Expectations - EP 83

    How do you create clear and open communication with your podcast guest? Every podcast—and every episode, for that matter—has a lot of moving parts. As podcast hosts, we know that in order to stay organized, we need systems in place. But those systems should extend to more than your recording and editing tools, and how you publish your episode. You need systems in place for your guest interactions, too.

    An unfortunate experience shared by a fellow podcast host prompts Mary to explore podcast etiquette and guest/host interactions. She outlines how to approach this important relationship before, during, and after the interview to make sure you’re setting the clearest possible expectations.

    Consider how you could fine-tune your own podcast guest etiquette:

    • Ace the early interaction that will set you up for that “easy yes”
    • Keep your guest in the know as the interview begins
    • Make sure you’re both set up for success once the episode airs
    • Red flags to watch out for when you’re the guest!

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Connect with Mary!

    Show Credits:

    Transcript with Audio Description:

    [MUSIC IN - GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS]

    MARY: Having a podcast means you've got to have your systems in place. What do you do before you record an episode? How do you manage the actual recording? Then finally, what do you do after you record that episode and have that file? What's next? 

    There are so many things and variables involved when creating each episode that this also extends to being on a guest on podcasts as well. What are your routines to get on a show? And then when you're on that show, what are you doing? And then after the show, then what do you do with your guest appearance? There are a lot of similarities here when it comes to having your own show or being a guest on one. So when you do have your own show, how do you treat your show and your potential guests? That all matters. 

    Today, let's get into some podcast etiquette. What happens with your guests before, during, and after the interview? How you respond will set the success for your show and your guests. 

    This is episode number 83 of the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice. 

    > 

    Hey, welcome back to the show. Thanks for joining me today. It's my first episode back from my little summer break. 

    [INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

    And if you had a summer break as well, I hope you got to do at least one thing on your list that made you happy, because we all have, like, a list of things to do, right? Like, you're away from work and you got all these other things to do on the to do list. For me, it was honing in on my family value of adventure. So we hopped on a ferry and visited family on the mainland in Vancouver, stayed for a little staycation and did some camping and just got to explore our beautiful part of the world with our friends and family and meeting some clients, too, who came for their summer vacation. So it's been a really joyful, adventurous, and relaxing summer for me. And so I hope you had the same of, ticking off a couple things on your list for you as well. 

    And then, of course, now that I'm doing the back to school thing with my daughter, it’s time to also do the back to podcasting thing with you. And just before I went on my little break there, I was chatting with my previous guest, Christian Klepp. He was episode number 66. We were talking about the continuous improvement as a podcaster. So we're hooked up on LinkedIn, and he was asking me about my opinion, and he wanted to run something past me. It's one of those, quote, unquote, if you were in my shoes or my show, what would you do? 

    [MUSIC IN]

    So let's first just lay out the situation. Okay? He said that this guy reached out and asked him to be a guest on his podcast, which was really nice because it is focused on B2B marketing, which is what he does, business to business marketing. So Christian reciprocated by interviewing this guy on his podcast as well. 

    So here's the thing he says. One, he never told me when my interview was going live. He just published it and shared the link.

    Two, I was completely transparent with him and told him when I'd publish his interview.

    Three, I sent him an email with the links, no reply.

    Four, I added him on LinkedIn and tagged him when I published the episode, no reply. And he didn't share it. He even removed me as a connection.

    Five, I introduced two guests to him based on his request, no reply.

    A few weeks ago, he adds me back as a connection and asks me to refer leads to him. I said, nobody comes to mind, but I'll keep my eyes open.

    Today he sent me another email to follow up and ask if I have any leads for him. So back to that main question. If you were me, how would you respond?

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    I had a lot of feelings percolating. It just like, escalated, right? All through those numbers. We got five points there. Okay. My response was this, like that initial, oh my god, that's the worst. But two parts of this really come to mind. Initially, I was all, this guy is all, take, take, take. If he ever disconnects from you, I would disconnect from him as well and remove those connections and never reconnect again. Cut it, cut it all off, cold turkey. [LAUGHTER] 

    But then the more logical side of my brain was thinking of what were the parameters around being a guest? Did he mention beforehand if he was going to tell you when it would go live? I know not everybody does. No one's as prepared to know ahead of time. But did he mention that or what did he say he was going to do to prep you for this episode being published? 

    So as I kept saying to Christian, my initial response would be no response. I'm too busy to deal with this type of relationship that is clearly not mutually beneficial. Emails get lost, buried, and forgotten. So, no response. I mean, he had no response. I'm gonna have no response. It's my quick, petty little response to that. 

    However, Christian and I had a good back and forth about this because I think it's a lot to do with those expectations. Christian was very, as he said in point number two, completely transparent with him and told him when I'd publish his interview. But he was getting no replies on those other points that he was making. Right? There was, 3, sent him an email with links, no reply. Added him on LinkedIn and tagged him, no reply. Introduced two guests to him, no reply. And I think at that point, with all the no replies, those are the red flags they are signalling to me, this is not a reciprocal relationship. 

    And then the more and more we chatted, he came to his own conclusion on what he wanted to do. But I realized this really is about the care. You, as a host, care a lot about your show. So, like Christian, you are doing all, you know, all the things that you would like to do and show that you care about this person as your guest. And when the two expectations don't line up, because it doesn't seem like that guest had the same care, there will be the feelings. 

    So how do we make sure this doesn't happen again? How do we make sure that for you as a podcaster, for your show, that you've got a framework in place so that you are laying down all your expectations? And as I always say, you are the host of your show. You're driving that bus. So are you going to be driving this bus left and right, through the lanes, over the curves, past the yellow line, or are you following a direct route? And what is that route? You can share it with everybody. Let them know where you're going.

    [MUSIC IN]

    So let's lay down some of these tracks for this framework as a host. When contacting your guests, give them some of that framework right off the bat, they haven't even said yes to your show yet, but when you give them this framework, they're going to think, whoa, you're really professional. You know exactly what you want. You sound like you know what you're doing. I want to be on your show. That's also one of the first things that they'll see. And they haven't even talked or met with you yet, right? Sometimes this can just be a cold email to someone or a message. What do you expect from them at this point in time? What should they expect from you? You laid this all out now, so there's no disappointment. We'll know exactly what each person gets. 

    So, for me and this show, I let them know what days I have available for publishing or spots I'm hoping to fill. This way, they could start thinking about, oh, um, at that time of year, I might want to talk about this or that, and they can already start thinking about certain topics that they want to talk about. Then I let them know that they have to fill out my form first. After filling out the form and giving me all the information I need, that will then automatically send them to my calendar to pick a time to record the episode. All of that is in my initial email to them. 

    So it makes for an easy yes. You know, this might be an initial email to them, but you've already done your homework. Or you may have already chatted with them a little bit about, oh, yeah, I'd like to have you on my show. But this initial email is the how to. They want that blueprint. And if you want more details on this process, I talk about exactly this on episode 62. So go through the back catalog number 62 almost 20 episodes ago, How To Land Someone From Your Dream Guest List. 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    Okay, so that's all pre-interview stuff. Now we're going to talk about during the interview. Like, you've got the person on the line, you may or may not have hit record yet, but you're going to set some expectations here, too. Remind them of when you plan on publishing this. You might not have an exact date, but you could always say, oh, this will be released sometime in November. So that way you could also be in the moment. If you know that you'll be publishing this months later than you recorded it, then you don't mention timely things, such as, I had a client who recorded something in the new year, and so she was talking about New Year's resolutions and all the stuff, yet it was being published in the summer when it is hot out. They're thinking about vacations. Maybe they're on vacation, and all of those things. 

    So you might want to talk about something that's more important to the publishing date. And your guest might also want to talk about something that's more relevant. Such as, maybe if you're publishing in the new year, they can then talk about all the new year's resolutions. Or you're publishing in the summer, and they want to talk about some fall retreats that they're hosting. This would give them permission to talk about those things. 

    And since we're on the topic of permission, this also gives them the permission to make mistakes, because we all do. Whether that is going to be something we're saying and we stumble and fumble on, or that our tech isn't working and everyone is feeling a little awkward, like, I'm so sorry this is happening. This normally doesn't happen or what have you. But that permission allows everyone, you and your guest, to be more human. And when you're more human, you care. And when you care. That interview is going to sound so much better. 

    [MUSIC IN]

    Okay, after the interview. Now, this is actually the important part and what Christian was actually alluding to in his question to me. And I wonder, now that I'm putting this episode together, was some of these steps implemented either on Christian's show, which it sounded like he did because he said, I sent him the link and da da da da da. But also on the other show that Christian was a guest on. So when you are a guest on another show, what is their framework like? And maybe if you're getting some red flags, then you don't want to be a guest on that show. 

    But, okay, let's go back to after the interview. What do you do when the episode is published? What are those expectations? And how, if you want to, how do you share that message? So I have a client. She shares this message with an email to the guest the day before. This email has all the details about the episode and all the shareable audiograms all linked or attached to the email as part of the promotional campaign. She also makes a suggestion that you don't have to, but you would be really honoured to if you did share the episode and also provided, uh, the graphics so the episode artwork and the links to the episode so that the guests can share it. 

    But also, what she's doing is making a reminder for this guest. It's doing two things, reminding them that their episode, that they probably recorded months ago, is being published tomorrow. It's giving them a heads up. The second thing is that it's reminding them what they talked about. When guests come on shows, they usually have more than one topic that they're talking about. And this email is a great reminder. 

    And for you as the host, it's easy to remind them what you talked about because you're just basically copying pasting parts of the show notes here. Usually I'll have bullet points of the major points of the episode, and that's what I will paste into the email. And I guess another thing of this reminder is that you're gonna let them know that you're gonna start tagging them on their social media accounts tomorrow. 

    So my client will give them this expectation, hey, this is what's coming up. And this gives your guest an expectation that it will happen tomorrow. They can be prepared for that. They can be excited for it and relive the conversation through your email and then be excited to share it. And this, of course, might sound like a lot of work as you, as a host, you're like, I have to send out this email with how many things? But it's all a format and templated. It's essentially the same email that goes out to each and every guest. You just need to update the relevant details for each guest and ta da, done. 

    But it doesn't sound like from Christian's original question, the host did not do that for him when he was a guest on that show. And that is where some of the expectations that he thought was supposed to happen wasn't happening. 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    So yes, all podcasters are going to podcast their own way. I mean, this industry really still is the wild, wild west, although we'd like to think there's similar things. And sometimes people go their own way, and that's not necessarily a good or bad thing. In this circumstance, though, it's getting to know what your red flags are. Your value of integrity for your podcast, and the care you are receiving from that person to determine if their etiquette is what you want to follow. 

    So thanks for Christian for asking that question to me over on LinkedIn and allowing me to share it on this episode. And if you have a podcasting question that you want to share, feel free. Hit me up on LinkedIn like Christian did. And that's where I usually hang out. Or I would love it if you left a voicemail on my website, visiblevoicepodcast.com. 

    And hey, when you leave that feedback, let me know. How would you respond to Christian's scenario and what's your podcast etiquette that you follow? And if you need some support on some of those templates I'm talking about, I'd love to have a chat with you. We can set you up with your own system so that you can do the copy and pasting and send this out really easily so you can create your own template and your own workflow that aligns with your values and sort of some of this podcast, unofficial podcast etiquette that is in the industry about guesting on a show. 

    [MUSIC IN]

    And diving into the next episode. We're going to talk about the art of conversation and what intentional conversation means for your podcasting journey. We chat with a podcaster who's defying certain rules about editing and how his experience with multiple shows that he's created can support you on assessing your needs for your own show. We'll chat with Chris Constantine next time. We'll see you then. 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    >

    MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the podcaster's guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

    >

    [MUSIC ENDS]

     

    16 September 2024, 9:00 am
  • 23 minutes 57 seconds
    How to Audit Your Podcast Effectively - EP 82

    How do you make sure your show evolves along with your listener? As an independent podcast creator, chances are you wear a lot of hats. You’re the host, of course, as well as the producer, the audio editor, the marketer, the designer… When you’re so focused on doing all the things for your show, it can be easy to forget that your podcast isn’t about you at all. It’s about your listener.

    Being a podcaster means you’re responsible not just for putting out a show you think your ideal listener will connect with, but for diving deep into your current listener and making sure that your episodes evolve alongside them. In the last episode before the summer break, Mary takes you through the many steps she follows when she conducts a podcast audit, so that your show can evolve to serve your audience better.

    Take these pro tips on a test drive to guide the evolution of your podcast:

    • How to learn more about your current and ideal listener
    • Why defining success is directly linked to podcast growth
    • How to evaluate your show, inside and out

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Connect with Mary!

    Show Credits:

    Transcript:

    [MUSIC IN - GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS]

    MARY: In podcasting, creating your show can feel so much about that overwhelm because of what the host does. Many shows are a one person show. So not only are you the host, but also the audio editor, the writer, the producer, showrunner, marketer, executive assistant, and the list really does just go on and on. But remember, your podcast is actually about your listener, not you. 

    Without your listeners, your podcast is basically a fancy place to leave yourself some voice notes. If that's what you're looking for, great. I mean, hit stop on this episode and move on. But if you want to grow alongside your podcast, you need to learn more about your listeners so that you can evolve along with them. So today we're getting into auditing your own podcast so that you can grow and learn from it. 

    This is episode 82 of The Podcasters Guide to a Visible Voice. 

    > 

    Thanks for joining me today on this episode. And, yeah, it's about auditing your podcast. 

    [INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

    And part of that process is learning about your listeners. So, before we get started into the meat of the episode, I want to learn from you. I'd love to hear what your feedback is. And really, that is the main theme of the episode. So, knowing your show and auditing your podcast comes down to knowing your listeners. 

    I'm doing a listener survey to learn more about you. This way, I can create more episodes with you in mind. What do you want to hear more of? What can I improve on? What do you actually not like to hear? You know, all the good stuff, all the feedback. And as a thank you for taking your time to share your thoughts. The survey is anonymous, but if you provide me your contact information, you'll be submitted to one entry to win a deck of my Voice Connection Cards. They'll give you a boost of compassion before you hit that record button. It's kind of like a little affirmation card deck for you. 

    Plus, I'll also throw in a 30-minute strategy session to talk to me about voice or podcasting and everything in between. So that's for you to choose. Kind of like a choose your own adventure session. You bring your questions and fire them at me, and I'll help support you on your voice and podcasting journey. So head on over to visiblevoicepodcast.com/offers, and on that page will be a link to the survey. 

    So, like I said, as part of the theme of this episode, you can also go through my listener survey. And yeah, use it for yourself, too. Why not? Go through the survey, fill it all out. But then you can use those questions as a template for your own listener survey, if you want. It's okay. You can steal my ideas, because point number one here, this whole episode, is to know your audience, your ideal listener. So let's get into that.

    [MUSIC IN] Your ideal listener can change over time as your podcast evolves. I have a client who does a yearly survey, and I was like, that is amazing. Go you. Of course, she's got a team behind her, too, so she has that support. So for myself, as essentially one person show creating my podcast, I thought to put one out for years. And so I finally made the time to do that. And I truly believe it will help you understand your listeners and to help you grow your show.

    Because I may have an idea of who my ideal listener is. That's a foundation that I take all of my clients on, is to create that ideal listener avatar, essentially. But it doesn't exactly mean that is who my current listener is. It's always good to check in and see how your listeners are evolving along with your show. You know, do you want to grow alongside them, or are you sticking with your ideal listener and gaining new listeners all the time to align with that creation? At some point, it'll be good for you to gather listener insights so that you can, A, validate what you're doing and give yourself a good pat on the back, and B, know what you can tweak so that you can serve those listeners and not abandon them. Through a survey you can also generate ideas for episodes because it's what they want, it's the challenges that they're working through. So how can you create an episode that is for your current listener in mind? Because remember, your show is not about you. It is about your listeners. What do they want and how do you want them to feel? 

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    So point 2 here is, knowing your goal and what success looks like to you as well. There is one question I ask everyone, whether I work with them as a client or they are a guest on my show. So, if you've been listening to my show for a while and you've been following along, this is a question that comes up quite a bit.

    What does success look like to you? Because knowing what you want out of your podcast will drive what you do with your podcast. Is your goal just to have a hobby, passion-based project podcast? Or is it used as a platform for creating a marketing space for your business or having listeners be aware of your brand?

    A podcast is a great way to do that. It's an extension of who you are and your brand. Knowing these things will drive your show with part of that foundational work, you'll know exactly what little tweaks you want to make to be one step closer to that success that you're hoping for.

    Now, success can also evolve over time. We are human, so we grow, and so will your podcast. What success looks like for you today may not be what you started out with or what will be success for you in the future. And, yeah, we can't predict the future, but we can make a plan for it. So let's do that. 

    [MUSIC IN]

    Some powerful questions that I posed for one of my clients recently was around her solo episodes. Now, not just for this client, but a few of my clients actually say solos are really a big, heavy lift for a weekly show. Or you know what? Even a bi-weekly show, myself included sometimes. It seems easier to come up with the guests, make the invite, then ask those questions than to come up with the content yourself. Organize your thoughts and ideas, create your episode, record the whole thing. Right? Like, there's so, so much more going on to create that solo episode.  And sometimes, because of that heavy lift, one would then lead to think, let's not do these anymore, and create more flow in the recording and publishing process. We can get more out if I don't have the stumbling block of my solo episodes. But my question is, what if you can create flow with your solos so that they are working for you and nothing against you? Because sometimes week after week of recording and publishing can get you out of the mindset of your podcast. And again, back to that, what does that success look like for you?

    Think about, why did you start the podcast in the beginning? What were some of those fundamental things that drew you to wanting to create solo episodes.

    For this particular client, I think they lost sight about the reason behind the solos and how they wanted to structure them. Not only the structure of the episode itself, but also the structure of how they're used in the entire ecosystem of the show. She really wants to be a thought leader in her space, so you can't be a thought leader without imparting your opinion. And your opinion is really crucial in those solo episodes because it's just you in a conversational piece. The guest is doing all the talking. They're the expert. So you're not really showcasing your thought leadership when it's a fully interview style podcast.

    So when reviewing reasons for why we created this structure or format with the solo episodes, there will be a clear direction on what that episode is supposed to do for you and for your listeners.

    What are you aligning with your offer for this solo episode? What is the theme that you are working on with this particular episode, and does it align with the surrounding episodes before and after it? Are there ties to each episode for repetition? Because audio retention can only work with that repetition.

    Things have to be repeated over and over again. Repetition is key, and if you feel like you're talking too much about it, you're not.

    This is something that was drilled into me in radio as well. Because in radio, we may be talking about something constantly because people are coming in and out listening to the radio, and it is a similar thing in podcasting. You may feel like you're talking about it too much because maybe you're recording all your episodes back to back or within a very short time frame from one episode to the next. But know that your listeners will get these touch points over the course of several weeks, or a month, or longer, depending on how often you publish episodes.

    So even if they are a raving fan and they are listening to you every single week, and you publish an episode every single week, that's only once or twice in an episode that you're going to mention this, which is only once or twice in a week that they are going to hear this messaging. So, repetition means you're actually not talking about it too much.

    So when you go back to these foundational questions, you can then realize, okay, like for this particular client, are solo episodes really working out? And if you want to continue with them, how are we going to integrate it into the workflow of what you're doing with the entire podcasting ecosystem?

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    Now that we have the foundations laid out, let's also get into the details of a podcast audit. These are more questions that I would always go through when auditing a podcast.

    First thing I'll look for is your title. Does your title still reflect your theme and mission for your show? Most of the time people are going to say yes, but if not, do you need to do a whole rebrand, including your artwork, your music, your show description? All of it? But yes, most of the time the title is still great and includes your main keywords of your theme. Then yay. Okay, let's move on.

    [MUSIC IN]

    Next is your artwork, or also known as your cover art. This is what everyone sees when they are listening to your podcast before they click play. It's almost like judging a book by its cover for new listeners, it's your cover art, your book cover, but it is also for existing listeners, for your fans.

    Is it recognizable? If I scanned my podcast listening app with all the podcasts I follow, does your artwork stand out? At the very least, does it stand out in your category of choice? And at the very, very least, does it look good on a small scale?

    That's my main question. Because no matter if you're a new listener or a raving fan coming back all the time, the title of your podcast needs to stand out. If you have a photo of you in your podcast artwork, great, that's totally fine. But not everybody is going to recognize your face. So it all comes down to the title, especially when it comes to word of mouth, when people are like, oh, I listened to this podcast. It's called, you know, XYZ. Can you read that title at a small scale? When it's tiny, tiny, tiny on your phone or device?

    And not just the text font, but is there enough colour contrast that I can actually read the printhead even when it's big enough? Nothing's worse than having like, a lemon yellow as your brand color. But white is the background colour or secondary colour. You won't be able to read anything with yellow on a white background. There's just not enough contrast.

    So this isn't only a brand thing, but it is also an accessibility feature too. So I always look at that and make sure that you're doing everyone a favour to make sure that people can read the title of your artwork and that it becomes recognizable.

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    For the next show level review, I go with show description right off the bat I want to know who this show is for. Remember, a podcast really works when it's niched down. So you're not talking to everyone on the planet that can listen to a podcast. Hey everyone, how are you doing today? But a very specific person.

    When someone is new coming to your show and they scan through your show description, this is where they want to see themselves in that description. Your ideal listener is gonna come into play here. Who is your ideal listener? Let them know right here in the show description that this show is for them.

    [MUSIC IN]

    Visibility on platforms would be my next look on this audit. So not just where you yourself, as the podcast hosts, likes listening to shows, but what about all the other apps? What does your show look like on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon?

    You know, I'm an Android user. I used to use Google Podcasts, but that's gone. Now I like to use Pocket Casts. That's my app of choice. Wherever your podcast listener can access your podcast, you gotta check there too. Such as, your website. That's another place that's huge on podcasts listening.

    If you have multiple devices. Also check there. Like I said, I have an Android, but luckily I also have a used iPad in the house that my kiddo plays on and reads from and learns on and stuff. So I use that and check that as well.

    So, for example, if you've ever made tweaks to your podcast title, artwork, show description, things like that, if you've made changes in the past, do all the places still look the same? Is your branding the same on all the different platforms? And if you're not on all the places, make sure your show gets listed on all the places. Yes, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon, those are the top, but there's the other places too.  Now, while you are on these platforms, don't just look on the show level. So all the things I've been talking about so far, the artwork, the description, the title of your show, we're going to look at the episode level as well.

    When you click on an episode, you'll get to see your show notes. You get to see how everything is displayed. Does the podcast listening app use episode specific graphics? Do you use episode specific graphics as well?  Also, most platforms these days do use hyperlinks in the show notes, but not all do. So are your links clickable? Like when you say the link is in the show notes, is it there available for them to go click, or is there another layer of friction for them to get to that episode link?

    Also, does the platform have truncated text? So, this means that they will only show a certain amount of letters or characters in the show notes or episode description.

    Sometimes some apps will actually truncate based on where you put in a paragraph. So if you have one line on its own as a paragraph, but they give you a lot more text to show you're missing out on that little bit of real estate. So don't use just one line as a paragraph on its own, but give it a good chunk of text so it doesn't get truncated just on that one line.  And still on the show level now, you're going to look at the overall titles of each episode. Is there consistency on how you're naming them?

    Meaning are you including or not including episode numbers? Do guest names come at the beginning or the end of titles? Are you even including guest names? Do your titles even have a good description of what your potential listener will be hearing? Episode titles are great for SEO points. This is a field where search engine optimization is crucial.

    So this is another piece where more listeners will judge a book by its cover, meaning they will judge the episode based on the title, if I'm looking at a new show, I may listen to the latest episode, sure, but I will also scroll the episodes and see if any other titles jump out at me in terms of interest and then wanting to hit play on that one.

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    So, so far, woo, we've covered a lot. That's a big list, and I haven't even gotten to any of the actual listening parts of the podcast audit. So when you're finally listening to review your show, what is that experience like? Is the episode intro too long? If you listen to episodes back, to back, to back, to back, what's annoying to you that stands out? Or if you're listening while multitasking, do you have to turn up the volume to max on your device so you can hear your own voice? Is your voice rich and clear and full bodied?

    And I'm not talking about like, understanding what you're saying in terms of accents or the way you're speaking, but the actual sound quality of it all. Do I have to strain to hear the sound of your voice? Is there too much background noise? It's the same with the guests.

    So it's not just your voice, but any of the voices that come through. How is that audio quality? Does it just sound like another Zoom call? Do they drop in and out? And so it's just really hard and fatiguing to listen to the conversation. These are all questions I would ask for the sound quality of the show.

    But at the same time, you can also listen for format. Meaning do you like how the intro works? Would you rather not have a show level intro and just have an episode specific intro? Do you want to have shorter episode specific intros? Or maybe you want it longer, or do you even have an outro? How do you end your show? Do you want one of those things? What about ads and sponsors? If you do have those, where do they come in? Do they have a nice transition where they're placed to show that there is a break in the show, is this seamless sounding, or would you prefer it to be more seamless?

    These are all questions that I have roaming in my head constantly when I am doing an audit. But depending on what your goals for your podcast is, the listening part of the audit will be different. And I can totally get more nuanced than this.

    But if you're at this point of the episode where you're thinking, whoa, that is a lot of questions that you're asking right now. I'm firing them off and you're thinking, I don't know, you tell me. Yes, I would love to tell you actually, or at least make a few suggestions and audit your show for you.  This is also such a great time of year to audit podcasts because we are halfway through the year. As I'm recording this, it's early July. So how does your podcast align with your idea of what success looks like?

    This is the time of year to make those reviews and then implement them so that you can end the year strong, or depending on your capacity, start the next year strong with that renewed plan for your show. And I know capacity always plays a big part in planning for your podcast. So I'm here with you to take a look at your podcast with a very discerning eye, meaning I'm from an outside perspective, listening to your show, or looking at it from a listener's perspective.

    Sometimes podcasters are in what I like to call like a fishbowl. They're swimming and swimming around in circles, publishing episode after episode. But is this the best or even simplest way to go about achieving success for your show?

    Do you maybe want to swim slower, or swim faster, or swim in a totally different direction? Or you know what? Better yet, get a bigger aquarium for more fish? I can go on and on with this analogy.

    But yes, let's take a look at your podcast together. We can review what success looks like to you with a complimentary strategy session. Here we'll talk through what's important to you, what your goals are for this audit, and of course, the success part. Right?

    I've been talking about that this whole episode. I'll do a quick mini overview in five minutes or less of what I see on your podcast. Basically, a lot of these questions that I posed during this episode I'll do in the complimentary strategy session. And then if after that you feel like you need more, we can schedule a full audit for your podcast.

    So, the complimentary strategy session, the link will be in the show notes, and we can plan for your success of your podcast.

    [MUSIC IN]

    But before I let you go, just a reminder to check the show notes not only for that link for the complimentary strategy session for your podcast audit, but also the link for the listener survey. So not only can I improve my show with your feedback, but that means you'll improve yours as well. From listening to my podcast. It's a whole ripple effect.

    So as a thank you for taking your time to share your thoughts, if you enter your details again, the survey is anonymous, but if you enter your contact details as an option, this will provide one entry to win a deck of my voice connection cards to give you a boost of compassion before you hit that record button to record your show.

    Plus, I'll include a complimentary 30 minutes strategy session anyway. And we can talk voice, podcasting, all the good stuff you need to grow your show. Again, the listener survey link is in the show notes, or you can go to visiblevoicepodcast.com offers and the survey link will be there for you as well.

    So have a lovely July and August. That's a summer break for me. I do my yearly summer hiatus of the podcast, or if you're on the other side of the world listening from the other side from where I live, have a very cozy, cozy winter. This will be the last episode until I'm back in September.

    In the meantime, don't forget, fill in the survey or I'm always around over email if you have any burning questions that you need answered over this time time, [email protected] is where you can reach me.

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    >

    MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the podcaster's guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

    >

    [MUSIC ENDS]

    8 July 2024, 9:00 am
  • 39 minutes 57 seconds
    Start a Ripple Effect of Continuous Learning with Beth Cougler Blom - EP 81

    How can activating your beginner’s mind help you facilitate an authentic podcast experience? For many podcast hosts, the draw of creating a show is two-fold: we are eager to engage with and educate our listeners on topics we’re passionate about, and we look forward to the personal learning and professional development our interviews and solo episodes can foster.

    Beth Cougler Blom is a facilitator, learning designer, and author crafting impactful learning experiences for organizations making a difference in the world. She also funnels her passion for transformational learning into her own podcast, Facilitating on Purpose. In this episode, she and Mary discuss the challenges, joys, and vast potential of kicking “Instagram Perfect” to the curb and creating an authentic podcast.

    Explore how your podcast facilitates learning for yourself and your community:

    • Facing down the fear of reaching out to potential guests
    • The benefits of receiving (and giving) listener feedback
    • Balancing vulnerability and professionalism in your episodes
    • Prioritizing the pursuit of greater inclusivity on your podcast

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Engage with Beth:

    Connect with Mary!

    Show Credits:

     

    24 June 2024, 9:00 am
  • 23 minutes 36 seconds
    Level Up Your Listening Skills to Improve Your Podcast - EP 80

    How has being a podcaster changed how you listen? There are plenty of ways AI can make podcasters’ lives easier, but there’s one human ability Mary firmly believes AI will never be able to replicate (or at least not for a very long time): true listening. We humans have the incredible potential to distill the emotional impact underlying the words a person speaks. Artificial intelligence bots, on the other hand, can only record the words themselves and “react” with whatever follow-up is programmed into their databanks. 

    As podcasters, we learn to hear and listen differently than other people. We hone in on the nuances in our guests’ voices, which enables us to strengthen that shared connection in our interviews. We also pick up on background sounds that wiggle in around our recorded words, affecting the quality of our episodes in a big way. So, when you’re podcasting—what are you listening for?

    Explore the emotional nuances of the human voice:

    • The significant difference between listening and hearing

    • What’s behind the “zoom-quality sound” fatigue we all experience

    • How deep and supportive listening can make you healthier

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Connect with Mary!

    Show Credits:

    10 June 2024, 9:00 am
  • 34 minutes 40 seconds
    Making Accessibility Possible in Podcasting with Joel McKinnon - EP 79

    How can we make sure your podcast is accessible to everyone? Everyone in the podcasting world is talking about accessibility these days, as more and more platforms release improved transcription services aimed at making the process easier for creators and meeting growing expectations around equitable access. Of course, AI tools are leading this charge, and simply publishing whatever that tool spits out—misspelled guest names, garbled industry terms, and all—just doesn’t cut it.

    Joel McKinnon is a podcaster and an accessibility engineer—the ideal expert to discuss the future of podcasting accessibility. The creator of two podcasts and a rock opera, Joel turns his expertise to exploring the future role of AI in all things podcasting and websites. He has an inspiring take on striking a balance between making the most of robot efficiency and maintaining that essential humanity.

    Gaze off into the fantastic future of podcasting and explore:

    • The quickly changing accessibility landscape of podcasting
    • How to incorporate equitable access into every layer of your podcast 
    • How to efficiently and effectively manage the extensive podcast-creation workflow

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Engage with Joel:

    Connect with Mary!

    Podcast cover art by Emily Johnston of Artio Design Co. https://www.artiodesignco.com

    27 May 2024, 9:00 am
  • 19 minutes 24 seconds
    Podcast Transcripts and the Future of Accessible Audio - EP 78

    How can transcripts positively impact your podcast? Podcasts have always had an audio-first following, but as-is, audio isn’t accessible for everyone. In the wake of Apple Podcasts’ announcement to begin including transcripts with their latest update, it seems likely other platforms will begin to follow suit. This raises an important question for podcast creators: is it worth preparing transcripts for each of your episodes?

    After two years of exploring transcripts for her and her clients’ productions, Mary dives into their potential to transform both creator and listener experiences. You’ll hear (or read!) about everything from SEO (search engine optimization) and AI to the proven benefits of many other accessibility initiatives. If you’ve been considering taking the leap and creating text alternatives for your episodes, or you want tips on fine-tuning your transcript process, add this episode to your queue.

    Get a better grasp on how transcripts can impact your show:

    • Why are platforms making the move to include transcripts?
    • How can transcripts improve the podcast experience for both creators and listeners?
    • What are the professionals doing to make sure their transcripts perform?

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Connect with Mary!

    Podcast cover art by Emily Johnston of Artio Design Co. https://www.artiodesignco.com

    13 May 2024, 9:00 am
  • 44 minutes 25 seconds
    Why We Need To Highlight Our Humanity In Podcasting with Erin Moon – Episode 77

    How do you bring your humanity to your podcast? Sharing your voice isn’t always easy. Factor in the painstaking writing of your script or copy, all those edits and revisions, and some nerves about speaking into the mic, and even the most heartfelt story can wind up either flat and unemotional or encased in that “reporter voice” from the dawn of radio.

    Unlock some podcasting inspiration through this conversation with Erin Moon, a classically trained actor who has narrated more than 450 audiobooks. To deliver the sincere and evocative narration for which she’s known, Erin centers her humanity in every character she adopts, embracing both the muse that first inspired the author and the physical reactions—the literal human responses—the writing evokes. Because connecting to the text means connecting to the listener and, as Erin says, “we don’t exist without each other.”

    Align your true self with Erin’s thought-provoking insights:

    • Why it’s vital to bring your humanity even when you’re reading off the page
    • How to avoid “just reading” as a podcast host or audiobook narrator
    • What the explosion of podcast popularity says about our need for connection
    • What we risk losing if we let AI voice our stories and write our scripts

    Links worth mentioning from the episode:

    Engage with Erin:

    Connect with Mary!

    Podcast cover art by Emily Johnston of Artio Design Co. https://www.artiodesignco.com

    29 April 2024, 9:00 am
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