When is the last time you heard the word “heathen”? The word was originally used to delineate between European Christians who tended to be in urban centers and pagans in rural areas. 

 “Heathen exists in the mind of the person doing the labeling, right? It's a label that one people foists onto another.”

 Our guest today, Kathryn Gin Lum, walks us through the history of the term heathen and how it has utterly shaped the world. We discuss her book Heathen: Religion and Race in American History. The idea behind the term was wielded as a weapon to justify colonization and enslavement, and though the term has fallen out of use, she says the mental map of the world it has created has not.

 Show Notes

 Resources mentioned this episode:

 "Heathen: Religion and Race in American History" by Kathryn Gin Lum

 "The Origin of Others (The Charles Eliot Norton Lectures)" by Toni Morrison

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination

 Eugene Cho and Karen Korematsu: Fear, Home and the Asian-American Experience

 PDF of Lee's Interview Notes

 Transcription Link

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This is our unabridged interview with Tim Shriver.

 On social media and the news, the narrative told about humanity is often one of violence, division, and dehumanization. But is that really who we are?

 Tim Shriver, best-selling author and chairman of the Special Olympics, doesn’t think so. “My view,” he says, “is that the versions of our lives that most of us lead most days are much more hopeful.”

 As the nephew of John F. Kennedy, Tim has known great privilege and great grief. As an educator and social worker, he has seen the countless ways that humans defy stereotypes and give grace and hope to one another. In this episode, he talks about why his life and career have led him to the conclusion that the key to a happy life is to live it for the flourishing of others.

 Show Notes

 Resources mentioned this episode:

 "Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most" by Tim Shriver

 Tim's Website

 "Need a Lift?" Podcast

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Greg Boyle: Cherished Belonging

 Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist

 Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream

 PDF of Lee's Interview Notes

 Transcript of Abridged Episode

 Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

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On social media and the news, the narrative told about humanity is often one of violence, division, and dehumanization. But is that really who we are?

 Tim Shriver, best-selling author and chairman of the Special Olympics, doesn’t think so. “My view,” he says, “is that the versions of our lives that most of us lead most days are much more hopeful.”

 As the nephew of John F. Kennedy, Tim has known great privilege and great grief. As an educator and social worker, he has seen the countless ways that humans defy stereotypes and give grace and hope to one another. In this episode, he talks about why his life and career have led him to the conclusion that the key to a happy life is to live it for the flourishing of others.

 Show Notes

 Resources mentioned this episode:

 "Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most" by Tim Shriver

 Tim's Website

 "Need a Lift?" Podcast

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Greg Boyle: Cherished Belonging

 Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist

 Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream

 PDF of Lee's Interview Notes

 Transcription Link

 Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

 Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
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This is our unabridged interview with Philip Mangano.

 Is homelessness a problem that can be solved?

 Historically, efforts made to address homelessness in the US have taken a symptom-management approach, focusing on soup kitchens, clothing drives, and medical programs. But these well-intentioned efforts often have a paradoxical effect: over time, they end up serving more and more homeless people, rather than reducing the number of those unhoused.

 In this episode, Philip Mangano describes his longtime effort to approach homelessness in a new way. “I took the abolitionist frame,” he says of his renowned Housing-First Initiative. “People were homeless, so the antidote must be a place to live.”

 Show Notes

 Resources mentioned this episode:

 "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell

 "Good to Great" by Jim Collins

 "The Innovator’s Dilemma" by Clayton Christensen

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm

 Charlie Strobel: Remembering a Life Well Lived

 Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke

 James Lawson: The Architect of the United States Civil Rights Movement

 PDF of Lee's Interview Notes

 Transcript of Abridged Episode

 Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

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Is homelessness a problem that can be solved?

 Historically, efforts made to address homelessness in the US have taken a symptom-management approach, focusing on soup kitchens, clothing drives, and medical programs. But these well-intentioned efforts often have a paradoxical effect: over time, they end up serving more and more homeless people, rather than reducing the number of those unhoused.

 In this episode, Philip Mangano describes his longtime effort to approach homelessness in a new way. “I took the abolitionist frame,” he says of his renowned Housing-First Initiative. “People were homeless, so the antidote must be a place to live.”

 Show Notes

 Resources mentioned this episode:

 "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell

 "Good to Great" by Jim Collins

 "The Innovator’s Dilemma" by Clayton Christensen

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm

 Charlie Strobel: Remembering a Life Well Lived

 Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke

 James Lawson: The Architect of the United States Civil Rights Movement

 PDF of Lee's Interview Notes

 Transcription Link

 Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

 Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
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 Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

This is our unabridged interview with Christian Wiman.

 “Suffering, I think, catalyzes an intimacy that couldn't happen otherwise.”

 Christian Wiman, renowned poet and teacher at Yale Divinity School, does not say these words flippantly. Two decades ago, he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer and given a life expectancy of five years. He has lived the past twenty years in the shadow of death and the grip of despair.

 In this episode, while discussing his recent memoir “Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair,” Christian explores faith, doubt, joy, and sorrow in the way only a great poet can, taking the stuff of life - the mundane, confusing, chaotic, and tragic - and making meaning out of it.

 Show Notes

 Resources mentioned this episode:

"Zero at the Bone" by Christian Wiman

"My Bright Abyss" by Christian Wiman

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty

 Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation

 Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days

 Angela Williams Gorrell and Miroslav Volf: On Joy and Sorrow

 Transcript of Abridged Episode

Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

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“Suffering, I think, catalyzes an intimacy that couldn't happen otherwise.”

 Christian Wiman, renowned poet and teacher at Yale Divinity School, does not say these words flippantly. Two decades ago, he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer and given a life expectancy of five years. He has lived the past twenty years in the shadow of death and the grip of despair.

 In this episode, while discussing his recent memoir “Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair,” Christian explores faith, doubt, joy, and sorrow in the way only a great poet can, taking the stuff of life - the mundane, confusing, chaotic, and tragic - and making meaning out of it.

 Show Notes

 Resources mentioned this episode:

"Zero at the Bone" by Christian Wiman

"My Bright Abyss" by Christian Wiman

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty

 Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation

 Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days

 Angela Williams Gorrell and Miroslav Volf: On Joy and Sorrow

 Transcription Link

Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

 Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
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 Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

This is our unabridged interview with Russell Moore and David French.

 For the last decade of American political discourse, both the Left and the Right have each been developing fierce tribalism, in which it is increasingly costly for one to wage critique at one’s own group. Threats of canceling, doxing, and worse are everyday occurrences for those who speak out of step with their party.

 Russell Moore and David French have been in the dangerous business of insider critique for a while. As conservative Christians, their criticism of the Right (specifically of Donald Trump) has cost them friends, careers, and safety.

 In this episode, they discuss why they continue to do the work they do, offering insight on the landscape of politics and religion, and how we might re-frame the way we do discourse.

 Show Notes

 Resources mentioned this episode:

 The After Party

 "The After Party: Toward Better Christian Politics"

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Tim Alberta: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory

 Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French

 David French: Conservatism Without Trumpism

 Russell Moore: Against, and For, the Tribe

 PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

 Transcript of Abridged Episode

Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

 Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
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 Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

For the last decade of American political discourse, both the Left and the Right have each been developing fierce tribalism, in which it is increasingly costly for one to wage critique at one’s own group. Threats of canceling, doxing, and worse are everyday occurrences for those who speak out of step with their party.

 Russell Moore and David French have been in the dangerous business of insider critique for a while. As conservative Christians, their criticism of the Right (specifically of Donald Trump) has cost them friends, careers, and safety.

 In this episode, they discuss why they continue to do the work they do, offering insight on the landscape of politics and religion, and how we might re-frame the way we do discourse.

 Show Notes

 Resources mentioned this episode:

 The After Party

 "The After Party: Toward Better Christian Politics"

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Tim Alberta: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory

 Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French

 David French: Conservatism Without Trumpism

 Russell Moore: Against, and For, the Tribe

 PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

 Transcription Link

Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

 Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
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 Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

This is our unabridged interview with Musa al-Gharbi. 

 Society has never been more focused on equality and diversity… right?

 The last few decades have been marked by a drastic increase in what often gets labeled “social justice.” Companies and individuals perpetually take very public vows to defend progressive values and denounce all kinds of injustice. But somehow, in spite of all this, social and economic inequalities have only worsened. How is this possible?

 “The fundamental tension,” argues Musa al-Gharbi, “is that while a lot of us are committed to social justice, we also really want to be elites.” Musa makes the case that an excess of public symbolic gestures has created a backwards world where justice is preached but rarely done, offering a sharp critique of the ways many of us, on all sides of politics and culture, have used social justice as a subtle way to serve ourselves.

 Show Notes

 Resources:

 "We Have Never Been Woke" by Musa al-Gharbi

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Eboo Patel: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy

 Patrick Deneen: Why Liberalism Failed

 Ben Cohen and Jay Jakub: Ben and Jerry’s and a Better Capitalism

 Christian Miller: We’re Not as Good (or Bad) as We Think We Are

 PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

 Transcript of Abridged Episode

 Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

 Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
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Society has never been more focused on equality and diversity… right?

 The last few decades have been marked by a drastic increase in what often gets labeled “social justice.” Companies and individuals perpetually take very public vows to defend progressive values and denounce all kinds of injustice. But somehow, in spite of all this, social and economic inequalities have only worsened. How is this possible?

 “The fundamental tension,” argues Musa al-Gharbi, “is that while a lot of us are committed to social justice, we also really want to be elites.” Musa makes the case that an excess of public symbolic gestures has created a backwards world where justice is preached but rarely done, offering a sharp critique of the ways many of us, on all sides of politics and culture, have used social justice as a subtle way to serve ourselves.

 Show Notes

 Resources mentioned:

 "We Have Never Been Woke" by Musa al-Gharbi

 Similar NSE episodes:

 Eboo Patel: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy

 Patrick Deneen: Why Liberalism Failed

 Ben Cohen and Jay Jakub: Ben and Jerry’s and a Better Capitalism

 Christian Miller: We’re Not as Good (or Bad) as We Think We Are

 PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

 Transcription Link

 Want more NSE? JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes designed specifically to help you live a good life, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

 Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube
Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter
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 See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

 Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.