- 54 minutes 11 seconds#317: Selling Smart Passive Income (And What We Can Learn From It) — Pt. 1 featuring Pat Flynn and Matt Gartland
This week I’m joined by two longtime friends — Pat Flynn and Matt Gartland.
Pat is the founder of Smart Passive Income, the creator education brand he started in 2008 and ran for 18 years. Matt came on around 2018 — first as an advisor, then as CEO — and spent years making SPI operationally strong enough to stand without Pat at the center. They spun SPI out into a separate entity called SPI Media, pivoted from courses to community with recurring revenue, and quietly prepared the business for a sale they weren’t sure would ever happen. In September 2026, they announced that SPI had sold. The deal had closed five months earlier.
The buyer is Liz Wilcox, an email marketing expert who spent those five months operating publicly as SPI’s “director of community” before anyone knew the deal had closed. The community doubled in size during that window. Part 2 is next week, with Liz.
In this episode, we talk about:
- How Pat and Matt deliberately structured SPI over 8 years so it could be sold — including spinning out a new company, removing Pat’s face from the website, and making the community the hero
- Why Pat turned down multiple VC and PE offers worth more than the final sale price
- The deal mechanics: seller financing, no broker, 160 documents of due diligence, and how it closed in 6 months when deals like this typically fall apart
- What creators who operate entirely under their own name are missing when they eventually want to exit
By the end of this episode, you will understand what it actually takes to build a creator business that could outlive you — and what the groundwork for an exit looks like years before anyone is thinking about it.
- Smart Passive Income
- Liz Wilcox — the buyer (she’s on next week’s episode)
- Deep Pocket Monster — Pat’s Pokémon YouTube channel (2.4M subscribers)
- Built to Sell by John Warrillow — the book that shaped their thinking on making a business sellable
- Superfans by Pat Flynn — his self-published book, part of the deal’s licensing terms
Full transcript and show notes
***
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) The news
(01:44) The first seeds of the idea
(03:10) The VC and PE offers
(05:52) Building for optionality
(13:20) Running two companies at once
(18:11) Why real partnership is the unlock
(21:17) Who to hire first
(38:16) Why the negotiation wasn’t about money
(40:38) What seller financing actually means
(41:24) The due diligence process
(45:26) The transition strategy
(47:37) Part 2 preview: Liz Wilcox next week
***
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#122: Pat Flynn and Matt Gartland – Courses, community, and the future of education
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8 September 2026, 7:00 am - 39 minutes 9 seconds#316: Kallaway’s EXACT System For Going Viral (Almost Every Time)
Meet Kallaway, the creator behind the Kallaway Marketing channel and the founder of Sandcastles — an AI research tool that helps creators find and validate viral video topics before they ever hit record.
Kallaway started 4 businesses. All 4 failed for the same reason: no one knew who he was. No audience meant no customers, no leverage, no second chances. So he made it his mission to understand how audience growth actually works.
He cracked short-form content at scale after years of building online businesses, and he built the research system he wished he’d had from the start. Now he has over a billion views, a 50% viral hit rate, and he built a tool to help other creators do the same. This episode is the full system.
In this episode, we talk about:
- Content minutes — the framework for mapping how much trust your audience needs before they’ll buy at each price point on your offer ladder
- The modern content stack: why short-form and long-form both need to funnel into email, and why that’s the golden goose
- The 3 metrics that actually matter for content creators — ranked in order of importance, with views coming in third
- A live walkthrough of Sandcastles: channel watchlists, outlier score, deep video analysis, and how to use the MCP to run research through Claude
By the end of this episode, you will have a clear research system for finding validated, high-trust video topics — and a framework for staying creative while using data to de-risk almost everything else.
Book a free discovery call with 1of10 Strategy
Try Sandcastles for freeFull transcript and show notes
***
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Intro to Kallaway
(01:03) Introducing “content minutes”
(02:12) The modern content stack
(03:45) Why you want a narrow ICP
(05:40) The 3 metrics that matter
(14:38) Sandcastles demo: building a channel watchlist from scratch
(16:14) Why you study mid-size creators, not mega-famous ones
(22:18) Deep video analysis: hook formula, storytelling structure, contrarian angle
(24:59) Kallaway’s research flow
(30:47) Solving structure and scripting problems using your own channel’s data
(36:34) Data-enabled creativity: the thesis behind the whole system
***
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#303: Riley Brown — The AI Content Creator Who Doesn’t Write With AI
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1 September 2026, 7:00 am - 1 hour 14 minutes#254: Caleb Ralston – Meet the Secret Strategist Behind Alex Hormozi and GaryVee [Greatest Hits]
Caleb Ralston is a strategist and brand builder for some of the biggest names in business. His breakthrough was back in 2018 when he grew GaryVee’s TikTok from 300k to 3.5 million followers in just 3 months. In 2022 he joined Alex and Leila Hormozi’s team as content employee #1, where he grew their audience from 1.2 million to 11.5 million. Caleb just doesn’t miss – and now that he’s out on his own, he’s here to help YOU.
In this episode, you'll learn the content strategy he used, how to improve your content, and where to start if you're feeling overwhelmed.
Full transcript and show notes
Caleb's Website / Twitter / LinkedIn / YouTube / Instagram
***
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) The Secret Man Behind GaryVee and the Hormozi’s (01:11) How Often Do the Top 1% Post? (03:31) The Brand Journey Framework (05:18) Being Intentional With Your Content (08:51) Is It Possible to NOT Niche Down? (13:55) Say the Same Things in Different Ways (18:07) Tracking and Analyzing Data (22:36) Maintaining Quality While Increasing Quantity (24:27) What it Actually Takes to Perform like the 1% (27:21) Where to Start (30:22) Building a Personalized Team (34:54) Agency vs Full Time vs Contractor (41:58) Developing a Content Strategy (45:15) Width Content vs Depth Content (46:55) Scaling Trust Using Educational Content (50:02) Best Call to Action Strategy (52:10) Email and Web Traffic Strategy (55:27) How Caleb is Going About Hiring His Own Team (58:53) The Correct Way to Give Feedback to Your Team (1:03:17) How to Take Inspiration from Others (1:04:55) Which Platform Has the Biggest Opportunity (1:06:57) Audio Content Strategy (1:08:47) Why You Need to Collaborate with Others
***
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→ #175: Angus Parker – Ali Abdaal’s right-hand man shares a YouTuber’s guide to hiring.
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25 August 2026, 7:00 am - 59 minutes 11 seconds#315: Breaking Down Our $101,666 Launch: The Mechanics And Lessons Learned From Our Virtual Summit
Our first-ever 6-figure launch started with a cold email I didn’t respond to. Twice. The third time, I wrote back. A few months later, we ran a 3-day free virtual summit that drove $101,666 in revenue — with a $78,400 margin. This is the full breakdown of how it happened, what we’d do the same way again, and what we’d change.
Joining me for this behind-the-scenes recap is Anna Reich, the integrator here on the Creator Science team. This was Anna’s first launch — 3 and a half months into the job — and she was right in the middle of all of it. We ran this summit in partnership with a third-party team called After Harvest, who pitched us on the whole concept via cold email and worked on a 15% performance-based fee.
In this episode, we talk about:
- The full mechanics: $101,666 in revenue, $23,300 in costs, and the exact offer stack that got us there
- What we’d absolutely do the same — the VIP ticket, aggressive email volume, and the live pitch with a day-2 bonus
- What we’d do differently — a simpler structure, a new webinar platform, and building the presentations before everything else
- The 80/20 version: what a stripped-down, repeatable launch playbook actually looks like
By the end of this episode, you will have a clear-eyed view of how a virtual summit launch actually works from the inside — with all the numbers, the chaos, and the lessons on the table.
Work with Sean and the After Harvest team
Build a Beloved Membership — 50% off the self-paced version
Full transcript and show notes
***
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Introduction: the first-ever 6-figure launch and what this episode covers
(03:44) Registration and attendance numbers: 3,145 registered, 1,000+ live on day 1
(04:34) Revenue breakdown: $63K cohort, $9K upsell, $17K downsell, $11K VIP tickets
(08:29) Cost breakdown: After Harvest’s 15% deal, $1,800 in affiliates, $7,800 domain
(10:01) Timeline: cold email in February to contract in April to summit in June
(13:56) Things we’d do the same: VIP ticket, compelling web work, full offer stack
(16:12) Why the $47 VIP ticket was the biggest surprise of the whole launch
(20:54) The live day-2 pitch — 30 minutes, almost no drop-off, and why the bonus mattered
(24:30) Things we’d do differently: simpler structure, drop WebinarJam, build launch capability in-house
(36:24) The core mistake: building all the assets before locking the presentation content
(42:10) The 80/20 version: what to lock in before you open registration
(52:28) Skipping affiliates for high-ticket offers, and why one-click opt-ins backfired
***
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#144: Bari Baumgardner – How to create the perfect 3-day event (IRL or virtually)
#191: Breaking down my $60,723 product launch***
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18 August 2026, 7:00 am - 51 minutes 55 seconds#296: Meet The Man Who Solved YouTube (With Data)—Richard from 1of10 [Greatest Hits]
Richard is the co-founder of 1of10, a research platform built by YouTube strategists, and his team has quietly been behind the scenes for some of the biggest channels on the platform—helping creators accumulate over 2 billion views through a repeatable, data-backed system.
In this episode, Richard walks through his complete four-phase ideation system—audience identification, outlier research (using five distinct methods), idea remixing, and validation—and backs every step with real examples. We talk about what happens when the wrong audience floods your channel, why creators should double and triple down on formats that work, and how a single title change took one creator's video from 10,000 views to 150,000. He also shares data from 300,000+ YouTube outliers on the ideal title length (hint: shorter than you think) and where the sweet spots are for video duration across different niches.
Full transcript and show notes
***
TIMESTAMPS
(01:12) Where 80-85% of YouTube success comes from
(01:50) Phase 1: Audience
(03:19) When should you start a fresh channel instead of pivoting?
(04:09) The danger of going viral with the wrong audience
(05:40) Phase 2: Research
(07:37) Format vs. Interest Topic
(08:00) Method 1: Inside your own channel
(10:52) Tripling and quadrupling down
(12:33) Method 2: Inside your niche
(13:45) Method 3: Adjacent niches
(16:00) Method 4: Outside your niche
(17:37) The "Japanese Rule" format
(20:56) Method 5: External inspiration
(22:07) Phase 3: Remixing
(23:00) Escalation, inversion, and interest topic replacement
(24:10) Viral vectors: concepts that work across all niches
(25:28) Phase 4: Validation
(27:00) Optimal video duration by niche
(30:45) Why long videos are making a comeback
(31:39) Total Addressable Viewership
(34:36) Titles: Fear, Curiosity, and Desire as the three core drivers
(37:17) Data: Title Length
(37:51) Three methods for generating title angles
(42:11) Thumbnails: Composition and Elements
(45:11) It's never too late: title/thumbnail changes
(46:10) Live demo: 1of10 thumbnail generator
(48:10) The full 1of10 workflow
***
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→ #282: David Altizer — How to Make Great Thumbnails (For Non-Designers)
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11 August 2026, 7:00 am - 45 minutes 42 seconds#314: Getting Unstuck: The Three Hidden Roadblocks Blocking Your Progress with Cat Mulvihill
Most productivity advice operates in one of two categories: you’re missing a skill or system, or you have a mindset problem. Cat Mulvihill thinks both camps are right — and both are incomplete. There’s a third category that almost nobody is talking about, and she argues it’s the one most likely to be the actual culprit when you’re stuck.
My guest this week is Cat Mulvihill, a speaker, trainer, accountability coach, and licensed Immunity to Change facilitator who has been leading workshops for more than 20 years. After being formally diagnosed with ADHD in 2024, she developed the Momentum Formula — a framework separating the reasons we fail to follow through into three distinct categories: logical, biological, and psychological. Cat is a longtime Lab member and led the second-highest-rated session at this year’s Lab Offline event in Boise.
In this episode, we talk about:
- The three roadblocks to follow-through — and why the biological one is the category almost everyone overlooks
- How to diagnose which roadblock is actually keeping you stuck, and why the order you check them matters
- The “dreaded identity” — the hidden, subconscious version of yourself you’re afraid of becoming — and how it quietly kills follow-through
- Why knowing your tendency from Gretchen Rubin’s Four Tendencies framework changes which accountability strategies actually work for you
By the end of this episode, you will have a concrete diagnostic framework for understanding why you’re not doing the things you know you should be doing — and what to try first.
- Cat Mulvihill — website and upcoming workshops
- The Four Tendencies quiz by Gretchen Rubin
- Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey
- LinkedIn bookmarked search overview
- Instagram — @catmulvihill
- X — @catmulvihill
- The Momentum Experiment Podcast
Full transcript and show notes
***
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) “Are people going to think I’m a sellout?” — the dreaded identity, cold open
(00:19) Introducing Cat: the Momentum Formula and why the biological roadblock gets missed
(01:59) The 3 roadblocks — logical, biological, psychological — and where brain chemistry fits in
(04:29) Diagnosing which roadblock you’re facing: why Jay thinks his problems are “just chemicals”
(08:04) How to check the roadblocks in order — and the patterns that signal it’s not logical
(10:55) A real Lab member example: when great systems still don’t get used
(14:40) The Four Tendencies (Gretchen Rubin): upholders, questioners, obligers, rebels
(19:25) The “dreaded identity” — the hidden psychological block most creators can’t see
(21:14) Working through all 3 roadblocks with a LinkedIn example
(25:44) Energy management and the biological roots: dopamine, blood sugar, sleep, environment matching
(32:17) How to work with obliger tendencies instead of against them
(36:18) The Immunity to Change framework and next steps for going deeper
***
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#171: Nir Eyal – Writing books, persuasion vs. coercion, and how to be indistractable
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4 August 2026, 7:00 am - 56 minutes 51 seconds#313: How Tom Ross Doubled His Community Engagement and Retention With Training Pathways
Closing the doors to a membership is supposed to hurt signups. But one of Tom's clients did exactly that — closed it, added an application, doubled the price, then reopened. His next launch sold out in 4 minutes. Same community. Same people. Just different mechanics.
My guest this week is Tom Ross, the founder of Learn.Community, where he helps community builders design learning experiences that actually stick. His clients have reached millions of people and generated tens of millions of dollars in revenue. Tom has been building online communities for 20 years, and he's been a member of The Lab since 2022.
In this episode, we talk about:
- Why an application process might be the most underused retention lever in the membership world
- The “bacon medicine” framework for making your membership both sellable and sticky long-term
- Tom’s “delight, direct, connect” onboarding philosophy — and what almost every community gets wrong
- How he rebuilt his course into learning pathways, drove completion from 20% to 50%, and turned a siloed module into the main engine of community engagement
By the end of this episode, you will understand exactly why most membership churn is decided before someone joins, and what to actually do about it.
Full transcript and show notes
***
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) “People inherently don’t know what they don’t know”
(00:29) Tom's background: 20 years building communities, what we're covering
(04:06) Most retention problems start before someone joins — the targeting failure
(07:51) Application process as the biggest membership lever — and how to handle rejections kindly
(10:09) Closing doors creates demand: one client’s launch sold out in 4 minutes
(14:43) The “bacon medicine” approach to membership positioning
(24:28) Tom’s “delight, direct, connect” onboarding framework
(29:01) Responsive vs. linear onboarding — why static sequences break
(33:01) Learning pathways: reinventing the traditional course
(36:47) AI agents, deep worksheets, and vibe-coded SaaS tools inside the pathways
(40:02) Turning off course comments and routing engagement back into the community
(50:49) Real results: completion up from 20% to 50%, churn down, engagement way up
***
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#260: Detailed Breakdown: Our First Offline Event (And What We’ll Do Differently Next Time)
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28 July 2026, 7:00 am - 1 hour 1 minute#312: Everything We Learned From Our Second In-Person Event — The Good, The Bad, and The Full Economics
This week, my wife Mallory joins me for only her second podcast appearance ever to break down everything from The Lab Offline Powered by Circle — our second annual 2-day in-person retreat for Lab members, hosted June 8–9 at Hotel Renegade in Boise, Idaho. Mallory planned essentially everything: seating charts, venue contracts, menus, swag, run of show. She's been at it for roughly 6 months.
In this episode, we talk about:
- The full economics of running a community retreat (we lost $8,300, which is actually an improvement)
- How we took breakfast from a 4.8 to an 8.1 rating — and what we'd cut to reduce costs next year
- What ranked #1 for attendees 2 years running, and why trivia (our favorite activity) came in 7th
- Whether we'll keep doing this in Boise — and what Columbus, Toronto, and doing 2 events per year might look like
By the end of this episode, you will have a clear picture of what it actually costs to run a high-quality community event, what's worth paying for, and what we'd do differently.
Full transcript and show notes
***
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Cold open: people were moved, tears were shed
(00:53) The Lab Offline explained: 2-day member retreat, goals, and agenda
(06:44) Initial impressions: a reunion feeling, smoother logistics, zero fires
(13:08) Attendee feedback numbers: 9.3/10 overall, 91% returning, 34% said underpriced
(18:46) Event economics: $30,459 revenue, $38,800 costs, $8,300 loss
(23:05) Top cost drivers: hotel catering, travel, venue rental, dinners
(26:52) Planning challenges: acoustics, dietary restrictions, every decision is a trade-off
(36:52) What to keep: assigned seating, Kat's Immunity to Change workshop, Fighting Off the Sleepies
(42:04) What to improve: more mastermind sessions, less solo writing, better acoustics
(47:49) Open question: should the event stay paired with Craft and Commerce?
(53:49) The case for Columbus, 2 events per year, and an international option
***
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#260: Detailed Breakdown: Our First Offline Event (And What We’ll Do Differently Next Time)
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21 July 2026, 7:00 am - 55 minutes 42 seconds#311: How to Build a Successful Paid Community | Growth in Reverse
The highest month of membership revenue in Lab history was also the setup for the highest month of churn. One year later, February delivered both records.
I have been building community in some form since 2012. I ran Startup Weekend events in Columbus, led online Mastermind groups, consulted on the launch of SPI Pro, and spent 2021 leading the community team at Smart Passive Income before going back out on my own. In early 2022, I launched what became the Lab, a membership for creators earning at least $10,000 per month in non-service revenue or with 10,000 followers on a single platform. The Lab now has around 340 members across three tiers and is still standing after years of waves of communities coming and going.
In this episode, we talk about:
- Why scarcity and urgency drive signups but can crater your retention a year later
- The two onboarding "secrets" I kept quiet for a while
- The mastermind paradox
- How to think about scaling a community without accidentally eroding the culture you've built
- What I would tell anyone thinking about launching a membership before they write a single line of copy
By the end of this episode, you will have a clearer picture of how a membership actually works over years, not just at launch.
- The Lab Membership
- The Lab Membership Teardown (free)
- Circle (community platform)
- Kit Craft and Commerce Conference
- Chenell Basilio on Creator Science
Full transcript and show notes
***
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Introduction and episode context
(02:08) How Jay started the Lab (from Startup Weekend to SPI Pro to Creative Companion Club)
(09:37) The scarcity play: record revenue month followed by record churn
(10:38) What actually works as a marketing lever for a community
(13:46) Why Jay runs applications and has a 90% conversion rate for accepted members
(16:30) The design philosophy: reduce effort, increase impact
(24:19) Mid-boarding: the missing piece between onboarding and renewal
(35:13) Jay's onboarding framework and the two secrets he's been keeping
(40:46) Why offline events matter for retention (not necessarily growth)
(47:00) How to think about scaling community without destroying culture
(49:19) Who shouldn't launch a membership (and what to figure out first)
***
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14 July 2026, 12:55 pm - 48 minutes 46 seconds#310: Brad Hoos — What 50,000 influencer campaigns tell us about what brands really care about
Brad Hoos is the CEO of Outloud Group, one of the top influencer marketing agencies in the United States. His clients include AG1, Chomps, KitchenAid, and Whirlpool, and he’s managed campaigns across tens of thousands of creator partnerships. Jay found Brad while researching for his book proposal on trust, trying to track down the agency behind AG1’s dominance in podcast advertising.
In this episode, we talk about:
- Why the creators who say no the most often are actually the most valuable to brands
- The difference between brand voice and brand advocacy, and why getting this wrong kills campaigns
- What Outloud learned running AG1’s campaigns across tens of thousands of creators
- The data across 50,000 campaigns showing no meaningful correlation between CPM and performance
By the end of this episode, you will think differently about how brands choose creators and how creators should position themselves for long-term partnership success.
Full transcript and show notes
***
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Introduction
(01:10) What brands actually want when they hire an agency
(06:20) The two things brands need to understand before a campaign starts
(07:09) Brand voice vs. brand advocacy: why the difference matters
(10:18) How trust changes what brands allow creators to do
(15:48) What running AG1’s campaigns taught Brad about influencer marketing
(20:39) How creators can position themselves to attract brand deals
(22:52) Why entertaining your audience beats being the “perfect” brand advocate
(27:24) Why the creators who say no most often perform best
(39:10) The data: no meaningful correlation between CPM and creator performance
(42:47) What Brad believes is true but can’t yet prove with data
(44:09) If you could only pick two platforms right now
***
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#179: Justin Moore – A step-by-step strategy to get anyone sponsored, regardless of audience size
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7 July 2026, 7:00 am - 13 minutes 2 secondsI want to help you build a membership in July. (limited time opportunity)
For the first time ever, I'm teaching my most popular course, Build A Beloved Membership, live over four weeks. You'll learn the exact approach I've taken to building The Lab to a ~$500K/year membership.
Here's what you'll get:
- 4 weeks live. 10 sessions taught by me (July 3 to August 3).
- Kickoff call (Friday July 3) and Sendoff call (Monday August 3).
- Recordings of every session.
- A Circle space for homework, questions, and cohort chat.
- A year of Lab Basic (member directory, questions answered, frameworks).
That last bullet is a big deal. Because after these four weeks are over, a year inside our Basic Membership (which typically costs $699/yr on its own) gives you monthly office hours with me for a year. So after the cohort, you aren't totally on your own again; you still have our community by your side.
I won't run this again in 2026. The timing just doesn't work with our next baby on the way—so I'll be going all out on THIS cohort. By the way, it’s going to be a hell of a lot of fun.
Here's the full cohort page to learn more. We have more than 30 students enrolled already, and enrollment closes Wednesday, July 1 at 11:59pm ET.
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28 June 2026, 12:44 pm - More Episodes? Get the App