Women are often told that working harder is the key to getting ahead. Deliver exceptional results, say yes to every opportunity, support the team, and eventually someone will notice. But for many women, that strategy doesn't lead to promotions—it leads to becoming indispensable in the very role they're trying to outgrow.

In this episode of This Is Woman's Work, Nicole Kalil sits down with Patty Azzarello—author, speaker, business advisor, and former Fortune 500 executive—to unpack the unwritten rules that shape career advancement. Drawing from her own journey from awkward introvert to CEO before the age of 40, Patty shares the lessons she learned about visibility, executive presence, influence, and why competence alone is rarely enough to build a successful career.

In This Episode, Nicole and Patty Discuss:

• Why being excellent at your job can actually keep you stuck in it.

• The hidden career rules that no one teaches—but everyone is expected to know.

• The difference between being busy, being valuable, and being visible.

• Why women often take on "office housework" that doesn't advance their careers.

• How to identify the work that creates the greatest value for the business.

• Practical strategies for saying no without damaging relationships.

• Why executive presence is often poorly defined—and how to build it authentically.

• How bringing humanity to leadership creates greater influence than trying to be impressive.

• Why visibility matters just as much as performance when it comes to promotions.

• Simple ways to build relationships with senior leaders and decision-makers.

• The power of asking for help as a leadership skill.

• Why waiting until you feel ready often keeps you from your biggest opportunities.

• How healthy conflict strengthens leadership and decision-making.

• The career cost of constantly taking care of everyone else.

This conversation is a wake-up call for anyone who has been told that hard work alone is enough. Patty offers a refreshing, practical perspective on what actually drives career growth—and how to start making those shifts today. 

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Connect with Patty:

Website: https://pattyazzarello.com/ 

LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pattyazzarello  

IG: https://www.instagram.com/pazzarello777/ 

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• 162 / Compensation Myths with Kelli Thompson
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We explore a common paradox in this episode (and I’ll be up front that this is one I’ve struggled with for most of my career) – and that is, being a likeable badass.

How can we be both liked as a person and respected for our success? How do we get the recognition, negotiate for our value, and create opportunities without our peers or colleagues seeing us as cold, calculating or selfish? How do we create and leverage power and status as women, if we feel icky about the words power and status?

I don’t have the answers, friend, but I know someone who does.

Alison Fragale is the author of Likeable Badass and the Mary Farley Ames Lee Distinguished Scholar of Organizational Behavior at the Kenan-Flagler Business School. Her work has been published in the most prestigious academic journals in her field, and is featured in prominent media outlets such as The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Financial Times, Boston Globe, and many more. A sought-after keynote speaker and trusted advisor, Alison was introduced to me by Adam Grant, and is here today to help us understand more about power, status, and likeability – and how those things impact our ability to get more of what we want.

A loving reminder that whether or not you’re a working professional, we’re ALL negotiating for the things we want, for what matters most to us.

And whether you’re at work or in your personal relationships, your status matters.

It’s time for us to set aside those limiting mindsets because they aren’t serving us or our people.

You can be and become a likable badass.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Go to https://CovePure.com/tiww to get $250 off. Thanks to CovePure for sponsoring this episode!

Connect with Alison:

Website: https://alisonfragale.com/ 

Subscribe to Alison’s Substack: https://alisonfragale.substack.com

Book: https://www.amazon.com/Likeable-Badass-Women-Success-Deserve/dp/0385549148 

Group Coaching Program: https://alisonfragale.com/likeable-badass-accelerator/ An 8-week group coaching program designed to help ambitious women build influence, increase visibility, and earn the recognition they deserve. Enter kalil10 at checkout for your discounted rate.

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Divorce is often portrayed as a battle—one that leaves everyone emotionally exhausted and financially depleted. But what if that's not the only path forward?

In this episode of This Is Woman's Work, Nicole Kalil sits down with Erin Levine, founder and CEO of Hello Divorce, to challenge the common misconceptions surrounding divorce and explore what it actually takes to have a good one. After nearly two decades as a family law attorney, Erin witnessed firsthand how the traditional legal system often creates unnecessary conflict, higher costs, and prolonged emotional distress. That experience inspired her to build a different approach—one that supports people through one of life's biggest transitions with greater clarity, compassion, and confidence.

In This Episode, Nicole and Erin Discuss:

• The three legal steps every divorce requires.

• Why 95% of divorces are resolved through agreement rather than trial.

• Common misconceptions about the divorce process.

• State-by-state differences that can significantly impact divorce timelines.

• Why divorce should be viewed as a life transition—not just a legal proceeding.

• Erin's definition of a "good divorce" and what makes it possible.

• Why fear and anger often lead to poor decisions during divorce.

• The financial mistakes that frequently cost people thousands of dollars.

• The role divorce coaches, mediators, therapists, financial professionals, and real estate experts can play throughout the process.

• Practical conversations and ground rules couples can establish before filing for divorce.

• Common misconceptions surrounding custody arrangements.

• Important considerations when dividing real estate and retirement assets.

• Why the end of a marriage doesn't necessarily mean the relationship failed.

Ultimately, the conversation reframes divorce as a process that can be navigated with clarity, dignity, and support rather than conflict.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Connect with Erin:

Website: https://hellodivorce.com/ 

LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinlevine/ 

IG: https://www.instagram.com/hellodivorce 

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• 047 / Mindset, Resilience & Divorce with Susan Tripi
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Spiritual health isn’t about following a specific religion, meditating on a mountaintop, or taking the sacrament (unless you want to do those things). It’s about something deeper—our connection to something greater than ourselves, our capacity for faith, and the hope that carries us through life’s challenges.

Dr. Lisa Miller is a New York Times bestselling author of The Spiritual Child and The Awakened Brain. She’s a professor in the Clinical Psychology Program at Teachers College, Columbia University, and the founder of the Spirituality Mind Body Institute—the first Ivy League graduate program dedicated to the study of spirituality and psychology.

Her groundbreaking research has been published in over 100 peer-reviewed articles, and she’s a sought-after speaker, working with the U.S. military, Fortune 500 companies, schools, and healthcare organizations to integrate spirituality into mental health and leadership.

Spirituality isn’t just a belief system—it’s a proven driver of resilience, purpose, and well-being. In this episode, we dive into:

✔️ How spiritual health impacts mental resilience and emotional well-being

✔️ The neuroscience behind spirituality and how it physically changes the brain

✔️ Why faith—whether in God, the universe, or your inner wisdom—makes you stronger

✔️ Practical ways to nurture your spiritual health (without needing a formal practice)

Because here’s the truth: Whatever created you, lives within you—and that alone makes you inherently valuable, worthy, and powerful.

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Connect with Dr. Lisa Miller: 

Website: https://www.lisamillerphd.com/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/dr.lisamillerlis

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• The Power of Conscious Connection with Talia Fox | 263

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What if the goal isn't to live longer—but to live better?

In a world obsessed with anti-aging hacks, longevity supplements, biohacking, and looking younger, Dr. Kerry Burnight is offering a radically different perspective. A gerontologist, educator, and author of the New York Times bestselling book JoySpan: The Art and Science of Thriving in Life's Second Half, Dr. Kerry challenges the fear-based messaging that dominates the aging and wellness industries and invites us to focus on something much more meaningful: joy.

In this conversation, Nicole and Dr. Kerry unpack what actually matters when it comes to healthy aging, longevity, purpose, confidence, connection, and fulfillment. They explore why society's obsession with youth may be distracting us from the very things that create a life worth living—and why growing older might be one of the greatest gifts we receive.

In This Episode, We Discuss:

• Why the anti-aging industry profits from fear—and how to stop buying into it

• The difference between lifespan, healthspan, and Dr. Kerry's concept of "joyspan"

• What research says actually improves as we get older

• How purpose, meaning, friendship, and connection impact longevity

• Why confidence often increases with age

• The role of mindset in healthy aging and overall wellbeing

• How to overcome internalized ageism and embrace every stage of life

• Why joy isn't something you find—it's something you cultivate

• Practical ways to focus less on optimization and more on actually enjoying life

Because at the end of the day, a meaningful life isn't built through endless optimization—it's built through the moments, relationships, and experiences that make us glad we're here.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Connect with Kerry:

Book: https://drkerryburnight.com/joyspan 

IG: https://www.instagram.com/the_gerontologist/ 

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Let’s drop the highlight reel for a second: entrepreneurship is hard. It’s lonely, messy, and full of moments where you wonder if you’re the only one falling apart behind the scenes. So in this episode—and a few more to come—we’re cutting through the noise and talking about what it really takes to build a successful, scalable business.

Enter: Dr. Darnyelle Jervey Harmon, powerhouse CEO of Incredible One Enterprises, creator of the Move to Millions® Method, and unapologetic truth-teller for entrepreneurs who want to build businesses with both profit and purpose. She’s helped clients generate over half a billion dollars in sales, made the Inc. 5000 list twice, and built a business that aligns with her values, her faith, and her vision.

In this episode, Darnyelle shares the real, raw truths about entrepreneurship—what it costs, how to scale sustainably, and why mindset, mission, and money must work together. Because scaling isn’t about hustle or hype. It’s about clarity, alignment, and building a business that actually works for you.

In This Episode, We Cover: ✅ What most people get wrong about scaling a business ✅ How to move from confusion to clarity in entrepreneurship ✅ How to build a profitable, purpose-driven business ✅ Why entrepreneurship gets messy—and how to keep going anyway

This path isn’t easy—but it’s yours. And the mess? That’s not a sign you’re failing. It’s a sign you’re growing.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Connect with Darnyelle: 

Book: www.movetomillionsbook.com  

FB: http://www.facebook.com/darnyellejerveyharmon

FB Group: http://www.movetomillionsgroup.com

IG: http://www.instagram.com/darnyellejerveyharmon

IG: https://www.instagram.com/teamincredibleone/

LI: http://www.linkedin.com/in/darnyelejerveyharmon

Freebies for your audience: https://www.movetomillions.com/freebies

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• How to Scale A Business Without Sacrificing Everything with Kelly Roach  | 311

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• 202 / Building Your Email Lists & Websites with Brittni Schroeder

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What if the biggest thing standing between you and the life you want isn't a lack of confidence, credentials, experience, or readiness? What if it's the invisible rules you've been following without ever questioning them?

In this episode of This Is Woman’s Work, Nicole sits down with Cate Hall—former Supreme Court attorney, former #1 ranked female poker player in the world, biotech founder, former CEO of the Astera Institute, and author of You Can Just Do Things: How High Agency People Get What They Want Out of Life. Together, they unpack the concept of high agency, why successful people aren't waiting for permission, and how fear of rejection, failure, and embarrassment may be keeping you stuck.

In This Episode We Discuss:

• What it means to be a high agency person

• Why most of the "rules" we follow are actually invisible agreements

• The art of getting what you don't deserve—and why that's a good thing

• How fear of rejection limits personal and professional growth… and why rejection is a necessary part of success

• Practical ways to build rejection tolerance

• The connection between identity and personal transformation

• How strengths can become weaknesses when taken too far

• The "moat of low status" and why people avoid being beginners

• Why women often struggle with looking inexperienced—and how to overcome it

Cate's message is simple but powerful: you don't need more permission, more credentials, or more certainty. Sometimes, you just need to do the thing.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Connect with Cate:

Book: https://www.amazon.com/You-Can-Just-Things-High-Agency/dp/0063488450 

Website: https://www.catehall.com/ 

Find your personal cringe minefield quiz: https://www.catehall.com/cringe-minefield-quiz 

TedTalk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN07gbipMoY

Substack: https://usefulfictions.substack.com/ 

X: https://x.com/catehall 

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When a powerful man says, “She’s not my type,” and a jury (actually, multiple juries) finds that man liable for sexual abuse and defamation, that’s not just a headline — that’s a masterclass in what it takes for a woman to be believed in America.

In this episode, writer, journalist, and Not My Type: One Woman vs. a President author E. Jean Carroll joins Nicole to talk about truth, power, paperclips, and what actually happens when you drag a president into court and win. Twice.

We talk about the facts, the stories we build around those facts, and why so many people will twist themselves into a pretzel to excuse powerful men while shredding women who speak up.

We get into:

• What actually happened in court — beyond the headlines, hot takes, and Twitter warriors

• How clothes became her armor and why what she wore in court mattered more than you’d think

• The “not my type” moment, the infamous deposition photo, and how Trump accidentally proved his own lie

• Why her sexual history was dragged into the trial — and how she took back that narrative with joy

• Trauma responses, laughter in the dressing room, and why “if you didn’t scream it doesn’t count” is garbage

• How mock juries forced her legal team to reckon with ageism, beauty standards, and who we think is “believable”

• What she plans to do with the tens of millions awarded in damages — and why giving it away is part of her resistance strategy

• The big questions this case raises: What does a woman have to do to be believed? And what does a powerful man have to do to be held accountable? 

Because this isn’t just E. Jean Carroll’s story. It’s a mirror held up to how we treat women, power, and truth — and a reminder that one 80-something woman can still change the story for all of us.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Connect with E Jean:

Book: https://static.macmillan.com/static/smp/not-my-type-9781250381682/

Substack: https://ejeancarroll.substack.com/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/ejeancarroll1/ 

X: https://x.com/ejeancarroll?lang=en

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For generations, parents have been told that picky eating is normal, inevitable, and just part of raising kids. But what if that's not true? What if picky eating is actually a modern phenomenon—and one we've unintentionally created?

In this episode, Nicole sits down with historian, professor, and author Helen Zoe Veit to explore the surprising history behind children's eating habits. Drawing from her book Picky: How American Children Became the Fussiest Eaters in History, Helen reveals how kids once ate everything from bitter greens to spicy foods and why modern parenting, nutrition advice, convenience foods, and fear-based messaging may have changed that. Together, they unpack what parents can learn from history, how to build curiosity around food, and why confidence—not control—may be the missing ingredient at the dinner table.

In This Episode We Discuss:

• Why picky eating is a relatively recent phenomenon in American history

• How children in the 19th century developed adventurous palates

• The role of nutrition science in changing children's diets

• Why modern parents feel so much pressure around food and feeding

• The difference between food neophobia and true picky eating

• How repeated exposure helps children learn to enjoy new foods

• Why separate "kids' meals" may be contributing to the problem

• The impact of snacks, convenience foods, and ultra-processed foods

• How confidence and consistency can transform family mealtimes

• The connection between food, curiosity, joy, and lifelong health

This conversation is a powerful reminder that children may be capable of far more than we give them credit for—and that curiosity, resilience, and openness can all be nurtured one bite at a time.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Connect with Helen:

Book: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250402509/picky/ 

Website: http://www.helenveit.com/ 

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• How To Build Girls’ Confidence with Cyndi Roy Gonzalez | 308 

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Here’s the truth: Raising emotionally intelligent kids isn’t about making sure they say “please” and “thank you.” It’s about raising little humans who can actually handle big feelings, express themselves without melting down (well, most of the time), and build relationships that don’t implode at the first sign of conflict.

Emotional intelligence (EQ) is the underrated superpower that will serve your kids long after they’ve forgotten their multiplication tables. From playground drama to career success to healthy adult relationships, EQ is the thread that ties it all together. And while it doesn’t come with a manual (seriously, why don’t hospitals hand that out with the newborn onesie?), there are some universal truths every parent needs to know.

To help us break it down, we’re joined by Alyssa Blask Campbell. With years of experience teaching parents and kids how to build emotional awareness, resilience, and connection, Alyssa has made it her mission to help families thrive from the inside out. In this conversation, she shares practical strategies, science-backed insights, and the FACTS about what it really takes to raise kids who can navigate their emotions (instead of being ruled by them).

Because let’s be honest: you don’t just want your kids to be successful — you want them to be good humans. And that starts with emotional intelligence.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Go to https://CovePure.com/tiww to get $250 off. Thanks to CovePure for sponsoring this episode!

Connect with Alyssa:

Website: https://www.seedandsew.org/

Book: https://www.seedandsew.org/book

Related Podcast Episodes

• The Good Mother Myth with Nancy Reddy | 274

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• What To Know Before They Go: Collegebound with Dr. Pamela Ellis | 280

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Leadership has never been more challenging—or more important. In a world defined by constant disruption, AI, economic uncertainty, global conflict, and nonstop change, the old leadership playbook is showing its age. The leaders who thrive today aren’t the ones with all the answers. They’re the ones willing to ask better questions, challenge their assumptions, and expand their perspective.

In this episode, Nicole sits down with Cornelia Choe, international leadership expert, CEO of Leaders Alliance, and co-author of The Panoramic Leader with Marshall Goldsmith. Having advised CEOs, Fortune 500 executives, and government leaders across five continents, Cornelia brings a global lens to what effective leadership requires today.

In This Episode, We Discuss:

• What Panoramic Leadership is and why it matters now more than ever

• Why today's leaders are facing unprecedented levels of change and uncertainty

• The hidden dangers of operating on autopilot

• How to identify and update your personal "mental map"

• Why curiosity, humility, and adaptability are critical leadership skills

• The power of seeking perspectives that challenge your own beliefs

• How blind spots impact decision-making and organizational success

• Cornelia's GEM Framework:

  • Get Up Close

  • Establish Meaningful Bonds

  • Map Your Evolving Perspective

• Why command-and-control leadership is becoming increasingly ineffective

• How leaders can create environments where honest feedback thrives

Leadership isn't about having the loudest voice in the room. It's about having the widest lens. As change accelerates and complexity grows, the leaders who succeed will be those willing to continuously learn, evolve, and see beyond their own experience.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Connect with Cornelia:

Book: https://lnkd.in/e_cE6WeH

Website: www.corneliachoe.com 

LI https://ch.linkedin.com/in/cornelia-choe 

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