Karolina Willis shares her remarkable journey building Intercare Recruitment from a struggling startup to ta hriving healthcare staffing firm. After relocating from Dubai to the US, she faced rebuilding her business in an unfamiliar market while raising two young children.

Despite reaching a breaking point where she nearly abandoned her entrepreneurial dreams, Karolina implemented strategies that fueled explosive growth in just six months. She reveals how she created unique differentiators that justified retained contracts - employing former nurses as recruiters, offering comprehensive immigration services, and maintaining relentless face-to-face business development even when facing multiple rejections.

This episode offers practical insights for recruitment agency owners looking to scale their businesses through genuine market differentiation and strategic team building across multiple countries.

Karolina is a seasoned recruitment professional with 19 years of experience in the healthcare recruitment industry. As a CEO and Founder at Intercare Recruitment, she specializes in matching top-tier healthcare professionals with leading medical institutions, ensuring that both clients and candidates find the perfect fit.

Episode Outline and Highlights

[01:53] From Poland, the UK, Dubai, and the US - Carolina’s recruitment journey.

[07:27] The mindset that helped Karolina be successful in a short space of time.

[10:16] How to generate candidates by organizing events.

[13:39] The initial challenges of going solo and starting a recruitment business. 

[28:02] Relocating to Florida, relaunching their business, and overcoming a breaking point.

[37:23] How Karolina approached the market differently in the US.

[40:34] Key differentiators as a boutique company.

[46:30] Strategies for growing her team.

[51:59] Overcoming the recruiter paradox - how to identify potential members of your recruitment firm.

[57:35] What would Karolina have done differently when looking back at her career?

Overcoming a Breaking Point and the Challenges of Launching a Boutique Firm

Karolina excelled quickly in her first recruitment role in the UK with the NHS, which became a solid foundation for her when she launched Intercare Recruitment in Dubai. Like many recruiters who aspire to build their business, she faced initial struggles and challenges along the way.

Karolina faced significant challenges when launching her recruitment firm in Dubai. Although finding candidates was relatively easy due to her strong existing network, the complexities of navigating healthcare regulations and business development were major hurdles. Karolina and her husband had to secure clients from scratch. Their strategy involved relentless, in-person business development—visiting hospitals unannounced, persistently requesting meetings with HR directors and CEOs. Despite initial rejections, her research-driven approach, industry connections, and sheer determination eventually led to success, with her 13th hospital visit yielding their first major contract. However, cash flow management became another major struggle, as collecting payments from clients was a slow and challenging process. The legal system in the UAE made it difficult to enforce contracts, ultimately influencing her decision to explore opportunities outside the Middle East.

When she moved to the US, the true breaking point came in 2022 when, after years of working for others, Karolina could no longer ignore her entrepreneurial drive. She had gained the necessary industry knowledge and confidence, but stepping away from the security of a full-time job was a daunting decision, especially as a mother of two young children with a mortgage to maintain. Despite the fear and financial pressure, she knew she had relaunched Intercare. With the unwavering support of her husband, she leaped, marking the start of Intercare’s second chapter in the U.S.

Building Key Differentiators as a Boutique Firm

I wanted to focus on Intercare Recruitment's unique approach to providing the best solutions for its clients. Their service offering is retained and involves recruiting nurses internationally. 

“So what I call ourselves, we are kind of boutique companies, small, quality-focused, concierge type agencies. We really go beyond with our services. We really get on side with our clients.

Here are some of their differentiators:

International Nurse Recruitment Expertise – They have an extensive referral-based network in the Philippines and partnerships with nursing schools, allowing them to source top-tier talent efficiently.

Comprehensive Candidate Support – Unlike most agencies, they assist candidates beyond job placement, handling immigration, flights, onboarding, Social Security, and even driving licenses to ensure a smooth transition.

Nurse-Led Recruitment Team – Their recruiters are former nurses, which helps build trust with candidates and ensures a deeper understanding of the industry’s needs.

Retained, Upfront Payment Model – Instead of working on contingency, Intercare secures exclusive, retained contracts where clients pay upfront, covering immigration costs and reducing hiring risks.

Extended Guarantee Period – They offer a 12-month guarantee, which is longer than industry standards, ensuring clients have long-term confidence in their hires.

End-to-End Immigration Management – They fully integrate legal and immigration services into their process, partnering with immigration attorneys to handle all necessary paperwork.

What are your key differentiators as a recruitment firm? How do you stand out from the competition? The key to getting retained clients is to show a unique solution that solves your client’s problems that they can’t get anywhere else.

Overcoming the Recruiter’s Paradox - Finding the Right Member of Your Team

Karolina shared best practices in her approach to building her team. She has now expanded to 10 members - 5 in the US, 5 in the Philippines. This growth allowed her to grow her revenue from $5K/month to $300K/month in six months! 

What are her key techniques in finding great team members?

“I see people's motivation and ambition rather than skills. You can teach skills, but you cannot teach attitude.” Aside from doing a DISC assessment, they invest time in researching the candidate, from social media, LinkedIn, and conducting three to four steps interviews.

Once the team member gets hired, they focus on empowering and coaching them. Extensive training and tools for recruiters are provided while providing all the support needed for them to succeed. 

Karolina Willis Bio and Contact Info

Karolina Willis is a seasoned recruitment professional with 19 years of experience in the healthcare recruitment industry. As a CEO and Founder at Intercare Recruitment, she specializes in matching top-tier healthcare professionals with leading medical institutions, ensuring that both clients and candidates find the perfect fit.

Karolina launched Intercare Recruitment in 2011, bringing with her a wealth of knowledge and a passion for the healthcare sector. Her deep understanding of the industry's unique challenges and requirements has made her an invaluable asset to the team. She has a proven track record of successfully placing candidates in a wide range of roles, from nursing and allied health positions to senior medical and executive roles.

Karolina's approach to recruitment is characterized by her commitment to building strong, lasting relationships with both clients and candidates. She takes the time to understand the specific needs and aspirations of each party, providing personalized guidance and support throughout the recruitment process. Her meticulous attention to detail and her unwavering dedication to excellence have earned her a reputation for reliability and integrity in the industry.

In addition to her professional achievements, Karolina is known for her leadership and mentoring skills. She plays a key role in training and developing new consultants at Intercare Recruitment, sharing her expertise and fostering a collaborative and supportive work environment.

Karolina holds a Bachelor's degree in Human Resources Management and is a certified Professional in Human Resources (PHR). Outside of work, she is an advocate for mental health awareness and actively participates in community outreach programs aimed at improving healthcare services.

With her extensive experience, deep industry knowledge, and a passion for making a positive impact, Karolina Willis continues to be a driving force behind Intercare Recruitment's success in the competitive healthcare recruitment landscape. 

Married and mother of 2 daughters, 5 and 8 years old. Lives in Greenville, SC.

Karolina on LinkedIn

Intercare Recruitment website link

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Focus is a superpower every recruiter needs, especially in a harsh market with tough competition. How do you keep yourself organized and focused despite multiple expectations that you have to deliver to your clients, candidates, and if you are a business owner, to your team?

Jenny shares the Jenny Diaz Day Plan and how it helps her stay organized and focused every day. She also shares how basic daily tasks help her business navigate this tough market while navigating growth and expansion.

Jenny Diaz entered recruiting in 2015. In late 2021, she, Ryan, and another former colleague, James, founded Apex Recruitment Group, a firm that specializes in construction management recruitment throughout DC, Virginia, and the Carolinas. 

While Jenny has worked in various industries, she has focused on construction management for the last several years. Through her recruitment career, Jenny has had the opportunity to participate in relevant non-profits that make the tough days in recruitment easier. She is currently the Vice President of one such organization, Career Confidence.

Episode Outline and Highlights

[03:31] How Jenny got into recruiting from studying Hebrew, traveling, car washing, and working on a dude ranch.

[12:29] Discussion on “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.”

[17:25] Launching Apex Recruitment Group and overcoming initial hurdles.

[23:19] The added value of meeting people in person.

[27:39] What is it like being married to your business partner?

[30:09] Keys to getting her first million.

[33:10] Going through challenges and things they would have done differently.

[43:34] Jenny shares their growth plans.

[48:03] Zooming in on Apex’s business culture.

[54:37] Business development and client acquisition in a tough market.

Jenny’s Day Planning Process

Focus is the super power that recruiters need for sure. Successful business owners and recruiters have a daily hack on how to organize their to do’s and make the most of their days. Jenny is no different, and she gladly shared the “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.” 

“So I have this Microsoft Word doc… I print it out, I take a pencil because the day will change, and I write down whatever's on my Microsoft calendar. I have a list of follow-ups that I'm people I'm going to follow up with. That's usually like five to 30 people depending. I have my three main goals, I have my two jobs. I'm going to work that day if I get it. I have things I'm grateful for, that I've learned.”

To summarize her methodology, here are the takeaways:

Jenny meticulously plans each day using a printed Microsoft Word document with hourly blocks

She writes her plan in pencil to allow for adjustments throughout the day

Her day plan includes follow-ups, main goals, jobs to work, things she's grateful for, and long-term goals

Writing plans physically rather than digitally creates a stronger commitment

The planning process helps combat distractions and provides focus

Jenny maintains this day-planning routine for approximately 90% of her workdays

Do you have a similar approach to being focused and organized?

Going Through Setbacks and Valuable Lessons Learned

Like all business owners, Jenny and his team have had a few setbacks that can be considered teachable moments. 2023 was a challenging year for them as they expanded too quickly into new geographies while the market was getting softer. They also hired four additional people, which created financial pressure and eventually forced them to scale back after the overexpansion.

Jenny shared critical learnings and adjustments they had to take to avoid reoccurrence. They learned the importance of tracking KPIs over different time periods (weekly, monthly, quarterly).

“So one thing I have done this year, just with the team member I'm working with, and he probably hates it, but I'm telling him, listen, every week you're going to fill out this form and you know it's more than just KPIs.”

They also used color-coding systems to track performance patterns.

“This is what we're doing. Are they green, yellow, or red? I actually have them. I have them, Mark, green, yellow, or red? And you know, if last week was all red, but you're trailing six months are green. Like, let's get back at it if it's all red for six months. Well, this is a story, right?”

Lastly, Jenny appreciates how partnership was crucial during tough times as partners talked each other ‘off the ledge’.

“But I think the partnership was really helpful in that because we could look around and say, no, get back. Like, come back. Like, we've all been there. You're gonna get over it. You're gonna have a great month soon. I don't know when it is, but like just get back at it.”

Business Development and Client Acquisition Tactics in a Tough Market

I also enjoyed the part of our interview where Jenny emphasized the importance of getting back to the basics on business development in a tough market.

“But it's, it's the basics. I think we are still big on cold calls. We do business development calls that are cold. We try to do a little bit. I try to do a little bit on LinkedIn or a lot, as much as I can.”

Their business development tactics include:

Cold calls - the team targets 50 meaningful connections per week.

LinkedIn Engagement

Database management.

Jenny Diaz Bio and Contact Info

Jenny has partnered with firms of all sizes to successfully recruit entry-level professionals to C-level executives. Since 2017, she has focused on engaging construction management talent in the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast. She stumbled into recruitment through seemingly unrelated experiences that began with working and studying in Russia and Israel and then ended on a dude ranch outside of Yellowstone. She has learned that the people you meet along the way are anything but chance encounters.

Jenny on LinkedIn

Apex Recruitment Group website link

People and Resources Mentioned

Guerrilla Marketing for Job Hunters 3.0 by David Perry

Connect with Mark Whitby

Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

Mark on LinkedIn, 

Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

Mark on Facebook

Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Dandan Zhu and Grace Marlin, co-founders of DG Recruitment, share tactical insights to help recruiters achieve top biller status in today's competitive landscape. 

Their rec-to-rec agency has given them unique visibility into what separates elite performers from the rest.

"To succeed in sales, you need to understand that everyone is extremely focused on their own needs," explains Dandan. "And hiring managers' primary need is that they suffer when it comes to hiring."

This episode dives into three game-changing strategies: maintaining robust client pipelines beyond just a few accounts, making strategic relationship investments with measurable long-term ROI, and perfecting the MPC approach to immediately capture hiring managers' attention.

With Dandan’s background as a top-performing recruiter who achieved financial independence by 28 and Grace's 6.5 years helping launch and elevate recruitment careers, they offer a powerful perspective on building sustainable success in agency recruitment.

Episode Outline and Highlights

[01:28] How Dandan and Grace started working together.

[04:00] Insights on what is currently happening in the recruitment space.

[06:40] What do top billers do consistently?

[15:06] The ROI of thinking big and going the extra mile.

[20:37] The concept of the “Golden Loop.”

[27:26] What an MPC strategy blueprint should look like.

[33:30] The value of adapting to rapid changes in market and technology.

[37:22] How to learn more from Dandan and Grace’s online platforms.

Top Billers Never Stop Building Client Pipelines

While many recruiters became comfortable with just a few accounts during good times, Dandan Zhu observes these recruiters were "scrambling" when markets changed. To maintain a robust pipeline, top billers consistently build relationships through webinars, panels, and content creation.

Dandan questions why more recruiters don't implement proven strategies: "Go out and set up a webinar for your network, for your niche. Go and set up a panel and invite your clients to be part of that as a BD tool." He notes that "all the playbook is there" but few recruiters convert theory into practice.

Grace adds that success comes from "who is willing to go one to two steps deeper than everyone else" with investments that might take "six to eight months to really start getting there." These consistent efforts ensure you'll never be left claiming "nobody's paying fees" during downturns while competitors continue closing deals.

The Long-Term ROI of Strategic Relationship Investment

DG Recruitment hosts rooftop events and specialized gatherings like pottery painting sessions targeted to client demographics. Though measuring immediate return is challenging, Grace notes these investments create "much higher odds of placing candidates" and develop "closer relationships with more trust."

"That year I met that person, two years later, that became a placement." Dandan explains their events were specifically designed for their target audience - "middle-aged women with kids in the Jersey pharma belt" for pottery painting, and New York recruiters for rooftop gatherings.

These strategic relationship investments help recruiters stand out in an industry with reputation challenges. Grace observes it's "very easy to do better" than competitors by "just doing a couple things differently." While others focus on transactions, this approach builds a foundation of trust leading to higher placement odds, client loyalty, and valuable referrals.

MPC Strategy: Skip the Intro and Sell Your Talent

Most recruiters waste time on company introductions when contacting hiring managers. Dandan recommends a more effective approach: "Sell the NPC right away. Boom, boom." This direct method recognizes that hiring managers prioritize solving their problems over hearing about your firm.

Hiring managers focus primarily on addressing their own challenges. A refined approach that immediately demonstrates candidate value shows respect for their time while positioning you as a solutions provider. Dandan emphasizes creating compelling candidate profiles with a confident, engaging tone instead of a nervous or disinterested delivery.

In today's competitive landscape, the first few seconds determine client engagement. Leading with immediate value helps bypass typical screening filters, significantly increasing your chances of meaningful engagement and placement success.

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

TRR #110 - Why Top Billers Don’t Want to Join Your Recruitment Agency

Dandan Zhu Bio and Contact Info

Dandan Zhu launched her agency recruitment career at the age of 23, quickly excelling as a full-desk headhunter specializing in a technical niche and eventually executive search for the pharmaceutical and life sciences industry. 

Through high commissions, obsessive saving, and aggressive investing, a method she calls “The Millionaire Trifecta”, Dandan achieved financial independence by 28, transitioning into full-time entrepreneurship.

She is the founder of DG Recruit (est. 2018), a leading R2R (recruiter-to-recruiter) firm serving top billers and recruitment agencies, and Agency Recruitment Academy (est. 2024), where she provides training and guidance to senior producers and recruitment leaders.

Dandan is also the author of Agency Recruitment 101, a comprehensive guide offering insights into the recruitment business model, commission structures, and industry best practices. She hosts the DG Recruit Podcast featuring top voices in the recruitment industry and showcasing top sales and recruitment strategies and tactics.

An active speaker and trainer, Dandan collaborates with go-getters and leaders in the recruitment industry to elevate their skills and results. Her mission is to share the knowledge she gained as a headhunter, sales leader, and entrepreneur, empowering others to achieve financial, career, and life success.

Dandan on LinkedIn

Dandan on Instagram

Dandan on Twitter @dandanzhudg

Grace Marlin Bio and Contact Info

Grace has been servicing the agency recruitment industry for the past 6.5 years as the Co-Founder of DG Recruit, a US-based agency-to-agency rec2rec firm.

Throughout Grace's time in the industry, she has helped launch, elevate, and track the careers of top performing recruitment and staffing sales professionals which has provided her a keen vantage point to understand what it takes to be a successful agency recruitment professional. She is passionate about the unique earning potential and autonomy that comes from a successful career in the industry, so she solely focuses on the agency side, NOT HR/internal recruiting/TA roles.

Grace routinely shares industry-related content on LinkedIn and is a champion for leveraging social media marketing as a cornerstone of your recruitment practice since it's still an underutilized tool for current and aspiring top billers.

In addition to her work at DG Recruit, she co-founded Recruiter Prep which offers an "Intro to Agency Recruitment Course" that teaches aspiring agency recruiters everything they know to break into the industry with the highest probability of having a successful first year.

Grace on LinkedIn

DG Recruit website link

DG Recruit Podcast link 

DG Recruit on Facebook

DG Recruit on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. Cialdini

Connect with Mark Whitby

Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

Mark on LinkedIn

Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

Mark on Facebook

Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Imagine building a recruitment firm where every placement creates an actual positive impact. That’s exactly what Leo Hewett did with Core3 — and this is how he made it happen.

After over a decade of experience working for large corporates up to Director level, Leo decided to take the plunge and launch his own ethical recruitment business, Core3 -specialising in Finance & Accounting talent. 

Alongside their B Corp certification, Core3 are proud to have won multiple awards since launching in 2022, including REC's 'Start up of the year' (2023), and Business Leader's 'Business of the Year' (2024).

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:23] The story on how Leo’s mom inspired him to give back to the community through recruitment.

• [08:43] What inspired Leo to launch Core3?

• [15:30] A purpose-driven recruitment firm: how Leo set up their organization differently.

• [28:33] How making a difference can easily attract talents.

• [30:39] Highlights and challenges in Core3’s growth journey.

• [34:59] Strategies on reactivating past clients.

• [37:15] ROI from building a personal brand on LinkedIn.

• [40:41] The practicality of following through with a voice note after a LinkedIn connection or engagement.

• [43:10] Developing an inner-circle community to add value.

• [51:50] Bringing in experienced hires in your team.

• [57:15] Overcoming two setbacks when scaling: Culture & Cashflow.

• [1:05:31] Most meaningful metrics Leo and his team focus on.

Building a Purpose-Driven Recruitment Firm

Leo reached director level at Robert Half and was detached from billing for years. During the COVID-19 pandemic, he led his team on hands-on recruitment and rediscovered that he still enjoys doing it. With an unexpected inheritance, he built a financial buffer which helped him establish Core3. He established his business in a way that is very much different from most recruiting firms: by being B-Corp Certified!

B-Corp certification acts as a "fair trade" equivalent for businesses, signaling that Core3 is committed to high ethical standards and strong ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) credentials. Core3’s decision to pursue B-Corp certification was driven by a desire to embed impact into the business model and stay accountable to ethical standards. The certification also enhanced its attractiveness to stakeholders who value purpose-driven businesses.

“The values are more than words written on a wall and people love the culture and work I'm working here. But it's, it's different because you can feel it every single day. Because we've given 3% of revenue to these three good causes that we support. Every consultant feels it with every placement. The client, after every placement, gets a menu of which charity they would like to choose where that 3% of this placement will go,” explained Leo.

Another way that Core3 engages with its community is by building inner-circle groups.

Adding Value Through Inner-Circle Groups

Leo and his team have strategically built value-driven communities to foster meaningful conversations among finance professionals. The approach began with the Conscious Finance podcast, which explored finance’s role in meaningful change. As the podcast gained traction, clients expressed interest in deeper discussions, leading to the creation of roundtable events. These roundtables bring like-minded professionals together to discuss shared challenges in an open, collaborative environment. There are challenges in hosting events for these inner circles, such as resource, time, and event costs. However, Leo shared the benefits in adding value to your niche community by developing these inner circles:

• Stronger Client Relationships – Moves Core3 beyond transactional interactions, making them a trusted partner rather than just another recruiter.

• Enhanced Brand Authority – Hosting and facilitating discussions positions Core3 as thought leaders within the industry.

• Exclusive Networking Opportunities – Clients benefit from valuable peer discussions and insights, making them more likely to stay engaged with Core3.

• Self-Sustaining Communities – With ongoing engagement via messaging platforms, these groups create lasting professional connections beyond Core3’s direct involvement.

• Business Growth & Differentiation – Unlike traditional recruiters focused solely on job placements, Core3 creates a deeper, more meaningful engagement model that attracts both talent and businesses.

By fostering these high-value, non-sales-driven communities, Core3 successfully differentiates itself from competitors and creates lasting relationships with finance professionals.

The Challenges of Scaling Your Business

Another topic that I can relate to is how Leo dealt with two main challenges when scaling his business. He shared the two main areas where he struggled: culture and cash flow.

For culture, defining and embedding a strong culture was difficult in the early stages. Lack of clear values and behavioral expectations made it hard to create a positive and cohesive environment. To overcome it, Leo did the following:

• Setting Clear Standards from the Start

• Involving the Team in Defining Culture

• Hiring the Right People

In terms of cash flow, Leo’s corporate background did not give him solid exposure in managing cash-flow directly. Although his business was thriving in its first year, the geopolitical situation in Ukraine and Russia affected his business, leading to a 6-month loss-making.

To overcome this, Leo implemented action points such as:

• Increased Accountability and Visibility: The team collectively committed to improving processes, tracking performance, and holding each other accountable.

• Shift from Inputs to Outputs: Rather than focusing on meaningless KPIs (e.g., "how many calls did you make today?"), they focused on more meaningful metrics like conversion ratios and actual results.

• Implemented OKRs (Objectives and Key Results): This allowed the team to focus on high-impact goals and measurable outcomes, rather than just activity.

• Strengthened Team Collaboration: The team took ownership of the problem and worked collectively to improve performance and cash flow.

Core3 survived the six-month loss-making period without losing a single team member.

Leo Hewett Bio and Contact Info

After over a decade of experience working for large corporates up to Director level, Leo decided to take the plunge and launch his own ethical recruitment business, Core3 -specialising in Finance & Accounting talent. 

He believes that business has a bigger role to play in society than just making a profit. Being future-conscious and aware of how our actions affect people and the planet is more important now than it ever has been. 

This is why Core3's purpose is to pioneer the ‘Conscious Recruitment’ mindset; putting people, planet and progress first. Pledging 3% of sales to their local community and the environment. 

Alongside their B Corp certification, Core3 are proud to have won multiple awards since launching in 2022, including REC's 'Start up of the year' (2023), and Business Leader's 'Business of the Year' (2024).

• Leo on LinkedIn

• Core3 website link

• The Conscious Finance Podcast links

• Core3 on Facebook

• Core3 on Instagram

• Core3 on X

• Core3 on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Start With Why by Simon Sinek

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

• Mark on LinkedIn

• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

• Mark on Facebook

• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

What if your next training session became the highlight of your recruiters' week rather than just another calendar obligation? We explore how innovative recruitment leaders transform traditional onboarding into engaging experiences that drive performance and retention.

In this episode, a tenured recruiter and recruitment business owner shares his experience in training hundreds of recruiters in this career. For David, “training and developing people is fun!”

David Bloxham is the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David is passionate about connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward. 

In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has expanded globally with a team of 100 consultants and 7 offices including London, Reading, Amsterdam, Berlin, Dublin, Orlando and Philadelphia.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:12] How did David get started in recruiting?

• [04:30] Has productivity in recruitment remaining relatively constant over time?

• [13:08] Effective and efficient team structure to increase productivity.

• [20:23] Hiring and developing hundreds of people over the years, what key training elements David wishes to share?

• [36:05] David and his team use tools and technology for reports and gamifying objectives.

• [40:27] Core focus of recruiters despite technological advances: telephone first and networking.

• [49:31] Discussion on David’s Management Buyout (MBO) experience and learnings.

• [56:53] Should your recruitment firm get an investment from a Private Equity?

Training and Developing People is Fun!

David started in the recruiting industry in 1996, and both of us agree that training back then was almost as simple as “here is a phonebook, and a phone, start calling.” We both understand the value of effective training as a key ingredient to successful recruiting results. 

Having hired and developed hundreds of recruiters over the years, what is David’s approach to training, especially in this age where technology can overwhelm the human factor of a new recruiter? For David, it is about going back to basics and focusing on what a recruiter really does. Phone first, and building a network. He utilizes existing technology and tech stack, especially when monitoring and gamifying performance as part of training and development. Most importantly, his mindset says a lot about his success, “Training and developing people is fun!”

Below are some of the takeaways he shared on this topic:

• Passion for Teaching – He genuinely enjoys training people, seeing them "get it," and watching their progress. His enthusiasm makes training engaging and impactful.

• Gamification and Fun—He introduces friendly competitions, small challenges (like mentioning random topics in calls), and a team environment that keeps training lively and engaging.

• Hands-On Learning – He believes in learning by doing, allowing trainees to make calls early, experience rejection, and develop resilience.

• Focus on Fundamentals – Despite industry changes, he emphasizes that the core of recruitment remains the same: connecting clients and candidates.

• Creating a Supportive Environment – He fosters a collaborative setting where trainees can share wins, struggles, and experiences.

• Emphasizing Resilience – He prepares recruiters for the challenges of the job, especially handling rejection and navigating modern recruitment complexities.

• Adapting Training to Modern Challenges – He acknowledges changes in recruitment (e.g., difficulty reaching candidates, compliance hurdles) and tailors training to address these new realities.

What Does a Recruiter Do?

Despite technological advances in AI, David strongly believes that focusing on the human factor by understanding what a recruiter does is still the key success factor in this field. He believes that two things are essential:

• Telephone First

• Building a Network

Regardless of what AI or other tools can do to improve your recruitment process, it is still a recruiter’s human factor of connecting with candidates and clients that drives the decision of whether you will win the business or not. As he puts it,  “And, and that's really where I kind of come to with, with what does a recruiter do? What a recruiter does is it has the human interaction, the human touch, right? And if we can really get that into the heads of recruiters, this is where your value is. This is what you do, right? You meet people, you talk to people, you network, you find out things.”

Indeed, recruiters who rely too much on automation risk becoming replaceable. But those who master the human side of the business—building relationships, influencing decisions, and adding personal value—will always be in demand.

Learnings from an MBO (Management Buyout)

As one of the first employees at GCS, David was deeply invested in the company’s growth. When it reached an eight-figure valuation, the decision was made to exit certain owners and transition leadership. Since David didn’t have the capital to buy out the founder, they sought backing from nGAGE, an investment company that specializes in recruitment businesses. The process involved intense due diligence, financial scrutiny, and planning to make GCS an attractive investment.

David's learnings also apply to recruitment business owners who plan to exit and sell their business through acquisition. You may be interested in the following topics that David elaborated on:

1. Know Your Numbers

2. Focus on Profitability & Efficiency

3. Investors Want Focus & Justification

4. Culture & Brand Matter

5. The Shift from Employee to Shareholder

David Bloxham Bio and Contact Info

David Bloxham is a seasoned recruitment professional and the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David has a passion for connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward. In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has grown significantly on a global scale, helping clients to "Employ the Future to Create it." David's expertise in the recruitment industry and his dedication to fostering strong client relationships have made him a respected figure in the field.

• David on LinkedIn

• GCS Tech Talent website link

• GCS Connect Leaders podcast

• nGAGE talent website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• LinkedIn Recruiter

• Lusha

• Crunchbase

• Daxtra

• PowerBI

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

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The journey from top-performing recruiter to successful business leader requires a significant mindset shift. Melanie DeBeer, Director of Full Circle Selection shares how she built a thriving recruitment business that doesn't rely solely on her personal billings. With over 25 years in the industry, Melanie reveals the pivotal moment when she realized that to scale her business, she needed to step back from day-to-day operations and empower her team.

"The challenge for me was letting go," Melanie admits. "I love every component of recruitment. But I had to make a decision. I can't juggle all of these balls and my business is not going to grow and upscale if I'm doing everything myself."

This candid conversation explores how Melanie transitioned from being fully immersed in the business to working strategically on it, creating a recruitment firm that continues to thrive even when she's not directly involved in every aspect of operations.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:16] How Mark and Melanie go way back in the coaching field, and how she got into the recruitment space.

• [09:49] Going back to basics and avoiding shortcuts: Highlight of Melanie’s career before starting her own business.

• [14:55] How leadership and structure contributed to Melanie’s success factors as a recruiter.

• [22:31] Discussion on the most impactful metrics to look at.

• [26:53] Why you should not be afraid to increase your average fee percentage.

• [31:34] Melanie’s journey of starting her recruitment business.

• [39:25] The milestones of growing the team and how Melanie overcame the biggest challenges.

• [47:32] Transitioning to a mindset of working on the business instead of ‘in the business.’

• [57:54] Approach and best practices to onboard the right people.

The Importance of Going Back to Basics

Before launching her recruitment business, Melanie was an achieving recruiter. Her 25 years of recruitment experience is a colourful collage of peak performance and highlights, and she is very much willing to share her early influences and success factors. 

One mindset that resonates with me is how she values the importance of returning to basics. Going back to basics is crucial for Melanie because it helps her avoid the pitfalls of taking shortcuts, which can negatively impact the quality of her work. Even as an experienced recruiter, she acknowledges that revisiting fundamental principles—such as thoroughly qualifying candidates and job specs—leads to greater success. She ensures a more strategic and sustainable path forward by stepping back, reassessing, and refining her approach, reinforcing the importance of “quality over quantity.”

Melanie also emphasized the following factors that contributed to her success as a recruiter:

• Continuous Learning & Training

• Strong Leadership & Guidance

• Leveraging Strengths

• Structured & Strategic Approach

• Face-to-Face Client Engagement

• Working Smarter, Not Harder 

Focusing on the Most Impactful Metrics and KPIs 

In running your recruitment business, what metrics do you prioritize? Melanie shared the most impactful metrics that they focus on. Below are the takeaways:

• Qualified Specs & Candidate Quality—Before submission, she assesses the qualifications of job specs and candidates, ensuring higher placement success.

• Referrals to Placements Ratio – She tracks how many candidate referrals (submissions) lead to placements, optimizing the process to improve efficiency.

• Number of Placements Per Month – This metric helps monitor overall productivity and revenue generation.

• Placement Fees & Average Placement Value—She focuses on increasing placement fees to ensure higher earnings per deal instead of simply increasing volume. 

• CVs Sent to Referrals Ratio – Tracking how many CVs are needed to secure a referral (candidate submission) helps refine sourcing and qualification strategies.

• Interview Conversion Rate (Referrals to Interviews) – She evaluates how many referred candidates secure interviews, ensuring quality over quantity in submissions.

We also covered why you should not be afraid of increasing your average fee percentage. When done right, doing so will bring advantages and a better perception of your clients.

Working on the Business versus Working In the Business

You'll also enjoy hearing how Melanie has successfully made the shift from being fully in the business to working strategically on the business. This means she's building a business that is not overly reliant on her billings and doesn't require her micro-managing in every little area for things to get done. It was difficult for her at first, because she loves what she does, and even when building a team, there is this tendency for her to get involved in everything. 

What helped her reframe her mindset is by trusting to what her team is capable of. Melanie said, “We talk about teamwork, makes the dream work. So I think there's also that element where I know that I can leave it in their hands. I know that they're going to deliver and they're competent. So again, they've got the skill, they've got the will and I know I can leave it in their hands. We've spoken about what they want to achieve. We know their long-term goals fit in with my long-term goals and they've got the skill. So I could step back a bit more.’

This resulted in Malanie having more breathing space and time to think of more strategies in running their business.

Melanie De Beer Bio and Contact Info 

Melanie Donnelly is an experienced recruitment specialist and Talent Acquisition Coordinator with over 25 years in the finance and engineering sectors. Leading Fullcircle Selection, Melanie excels in aligning top talent with companies' needs, particularly in South Africa. Her client-focused approach and expertise in staff retention and recruitment process improvement have helped her build trusted partnerships and exclusive collaborations. With a strong foundation in sales and client relationship management, Melanie continues to drive impactful hiring outcomes and enhance workforce quality across industries.

• Melanie on LinkedIn

• Fullcircle Selection website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Dan Martell - Buy Back Your Time 

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

• Mark on LinkedIn 

• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

• Mark on Facebook

• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

Would you be apprehensive about adding a recruitment bot in your hiring process at the risk of losing the ‘human’ factor? Our special guest, Betsy Robinson, explains how they utilize AI trends and other tech stacks to enhance their client and candidate experience.

Betsy Robinson is the Founder & CEO of Tier4 Group, a woman-owned, diversity-certified talent acquisition firm headquartered in Atlanta. 

The company specializes in connecting exceptional talent with top-tier employers for technology and executive roles, combining advanced recruitment automation with a personalized approach. 

Under her leadership, Tier4 Group has achieved remarkable recognition, including six consecutive years on the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing companies (2019-2024) and five appearances on the Atlanta Pacesetters list.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:03] Recruiting out of college - beginning of Betsy’s 20-year recruitment journey.

• [07:05] How she ventured out alone - discussing high points and challenges.

• [18:31] Fostering a culture of feedback and how it elevates the quality of output.

• [24:19] Incorporating recruitment automation, technology, and AI.

• [33:35] Would you include a digital recruiter in hiring your process?

• [41:15] Betsy reveals their tech stack and AI trends.

• [47:28] The value of using note-taking AI tools.

• [51:52] Creating a culture of strong team collaboration.

Incorporating a Digital Recruiter in the Hiring Process

Would you consider incorporating a recruitment ‘bot’ in your hiring process? A lot of recruitment business owners might be apprehensive about doing so, as it poses the risk of diminishing the ‘human touch’ in the process. 

On the other hand, Betsy's team is leveraging a "digital employee," specifically a digital recruiter, to enhance their hiring process. This AI-powered recruiter can call and chat with candidates, helping to screen large volumes of applicants more efficiently while maintaining a personalized experience. Unlike traditional chatbots or automated emails, this digital recruiter has a live voice and engages in real conversations, making it feel more human-like.

Some of the outlined advantages of this investment include:

• Speed & Efficiency – The digital recruiter can process large volumes of candidates quickly, helping the team sift through hundreds of applicants without delays.

• Candidate Engagement – One of the biggest complaints in recruitment is ghosting—candidates never hearing back from employers. A digital recruiter ensures consistent communication, so candidates stay informed.

• 24/7 Availability – Unlike human recruiters who work business hours, the digital employee can operate around the clock, allowing candidates to engage at their convenience—whether during a lunch break or late at night.

Tech Stack and AI Trends

Betsy and I also talked about the tech stacks they are using and the recent trends in technology that recruiters can use to either improve and simplify their processes, improve candidate and client engagement, and manage performance and KPIs for their employees.

We have listed below some tools that you may already be familiar with or others you might consider exploring: 

Applicant Tracking & CRM Systems

• Loxo – Legacy ATS/CRM system 

• Tracker – New ATS & CRM for front/middle office operations with better API integrations

AI-Powered Communication Tools

• CloudCall – AI-driven text and voice communication for candidate and client interactions.

• Digital Recruiters (AI Recruiters) – AI-powered virtual recruiters that conduct initial screenings via calls and chats.

Note-Takers & Meeting Assistants

• Otter.ai – AI-powered transcription and meeting summarization.

• Fathom – AI note-taking with advanced meeting insights.

• Fireflies – AI transcription, summarization, and team collaboration.

• Copilot (Microsoft) – AI assistant for Teams meetings and documentation.

• Quill – AI-driven note-taking tool specifically for recruiters.

• Gong – AI-powered call analysis and coaching for sales and recruiter conversations.

AI-Driven Data Management & Automation

• VMS Integrations – Automates job order creation and updates within the ATS.

• AI-Powered Contact Management – Automatically updates candidate and client contact information.

AI for Remote Team Collaboration & Coaching

• AI Call Coaching (via GPT or Gong) – Analyzes recruiter and sales calls for performance improvement.

• Remarkable (Digital Notepad) – Converts handwritten notes to digital format for easy CRM integration.

These tools collectively enhance efficiency, automation, and candidate engagement in recruitment businesses.

Creating a Culture of Strong Team Collaboration

Despite being tech-heavy, Betsy and her team still invest in ensuring that their connection and culture as a team is as collaborative as can be. With a team of 30, mostly working remotely, seamless collaboration and teamwork are essential.

This is how she summarizes their collaboration:  “We, I will say, first of all, we welcome all ideas. It doesn't matter if you are someone who's been on our team for one week or someone who's been on our team for one year or you've been our first employee who's been here 10 years. Everybody brings unique at different perspective perspectives. And I would say we are much more collaborative in our decision-making.”

She also added the value of transparency: “We also communicate to the best of our ability the why behind a lot of our decisions that we're making.”

Lastly, she emphasized the value of accountability: “So we're also working on a culture of, you know, pure accountability.”

The key factors are critical in Betsy’s successful culture-building. Do you have similar values in terms of your business culture?

Betsy Robinson Bio and Contact Info

Betsy Robinson is the Founder & CEO of Tier4 Group. Headquartered in Atlanta, Tier4 Group is a woman-owned and diversity-certified talent acquisition firm specializing in connecting exceptional talent with top-tier employers seeking to fill technology and executive roles. By combining advanced recruitment automation with a personalized approach, Tier4 strives to identify the best fit for both the customer and the candidate.

Tier4 Group has been recognized for six consecutive years (2019-2024) as one of the fastest-growing companies in the nation on the prestigious Inc. 5000 list, as well as being named for a 5th time in 2024 to the Atlanta Pacesetters list of the fastest growing privately-held companies in GA. Additionally, the company is a four-time Bulldog 100 Honoree. The Bulldog 100 recognizes the 100 fastest-growing businesses owned or operated by UGA Alumni. 

Betsy was named LGBTQ Businessperson of the Year in Georgia in 2023 and recognized to the inaugural Inc Magazine 30 Under 30-ish list in 2023. She was also named to the Atlanta Business Chronicle’s 40 Under 40 Class of 2019. Betsy holds a B.B.A. from the University of Georgia’s Terry College of Business. She is an active volunteer with Women in Technology (WIT), currently serving on the Board of Directors. Betsy has also served on the Board of Directors for the Technology Association of Georgia’s Diversity & Inclusion Society, as well as the Business Advisory Board for ITT Technical Institute. 

Outside of work, Betsy is active in outreach within the community as a volunteer supporting several non-profits. Her most important jobs are as a wife and mom. On weekends, you can find her cheering on her son on the soccer field, boating on the lake, or cheering loudly in the stands for the Atlanta sports team as well as the Georgia Bulldogs.

• Betsy on LinkedIn

• Tier4 Group website link

• Retained Executive Search (a division of Tier4) website link

• WIT (Women in Technology) website link

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

• Mark on LinkedIn, 

• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

• Mark on Facebook

• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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A 25-year recruiting veteran! Our special guest, Jeff Cox, shares his journey and insights on how he made two transitions to up his recruitment game: From placing junior to senior roles and switching from contingent to retainer model.

These shifts can be challenging, and so it takes the right mindset and preparation for your to have the power to transition. Jeff shared how he did it!

Jeff specializes in assisting biotech and pharmaceutical companies in building transformative leadership teams. 

As a member of the prestigious Pinnacle Society, Jeff is one of the top-producing recruiters in the country. But he believes success in this industry is less about the money and more about the people we impact and the life-changing projects we advance.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [02:50] How did Jeff end up in the recruiting industry after aspiring to become an actor?

• [06:52] Acting as Jeff’s cornerstone in his recruitment approach.

• [10:42] Success factors contributing to consistent improvement when starting your desk.

• [18:34] Why being nervous all the time is not necessarily a bad thing.

• [20:11] Jeff shares his experience working with his father and siblings in the business.

• [24:48] Transition to placing senior directors, VPs, and C-level executives.

• [42:36] Insights on the current market and team dynamics and how it can be challenging for [retained searches.

• [48:34] Switching from contingent to retained search - the power of walking away.

• [54:35] Going back to the basics amid a big reset in 2025.

What Success Looked Like

What would Jeff consider a success factor in his success as a recruitment business owner? For him, it is no magic ingredient.

“It's just showing up every day and being, you know, you know, like my dad says. We used to say, “Dad, I don't know what to do.” You know, pick up the phone. That's what you do. “Dad, I don't have enough job orders.” Pick up the phone. If you work every day, it works out.”

Jeff emphasized the value of being consistent and showing up every day as a key factor in his longevity and success in the recruiting field. He also shared how his background as an actor helped him learn a lot about being human - which is a key ingredient when building relationships with clients and candidates. 

“I mean, I think that's the foundation, of why I'm a good recruiter. Because, you know, the most important thing to do as an actor is to listen. To listen and to live in the moment, you know, not, not to let things get ahead of yourself… I guess also the ability, you know, when you play a lot of different characters, you have to be able to jump into other people's skin. You have to be able to understand.”

On top of the above, he also had the foundation of working in his father’s recruitment firm. This led him to eventually build his desk and the rest is history.

Transitioning to Place Executive Senior Roles

Jeff initially worked in lower-level positions such as associates and clinical chemists. When he started his firm, he made two key decisions that positively impacted his revenue.

1. Making a strategic decision to focus on higher-level positions such as directors, VPs, and C-level executives.

2. Moving from Contingency to Retained search model.

The first item above is not an easy transition. Jeff decided to no longer accept managerial placements but rather focus on executive-level positions. Here are the two takeaways: 

Making a Conscious, Strategic Shift – He decided to position himself exclusively for senior director-level and above roles. This meant actively telling the market, "No, I don't work at that level; I only recruit senior executives." By consistently reinforcing this message, he established himself as a specialist in executive recruitment.

Leveraging Long-Term Relationships – Over time, the professionals he had placed in junior roles advanced in their careers, moving into managerial and director positions. He capitalized on these relationships, using his existing network to transition into higher-level placements.

He also had the same mindset when he switched from a contingent to a retained search model. He shared that for him to have the ability to make strong choices such as this decision to switch, he had to ensure that he kept his housekeeping in order. “I made a strategic choice to live within my means. And when I made. When I made these choices, I was like, okay, you've got enough. You've got enough Runway where you can do it.”

Why Going Back to the Basics is Essential in This Market

A key topic that resonates with me is how Jeff deals with the current market difficulty in the pharmaceutical and biotech industries.  

“I think the pharmaceutical and biotech industry has had a rough year and there's this balancing act that I'm going through in my brain. Do I go back to contingency when times are tough? Like, like what do you know? What do I do?” 

If you can relate to how Jeff felt, I am sure you will appreciate his strong sense of accountability and self-awareness. 

“And I, and I have found that I'm not, I'm not doing my job as well as I should. So it's now for me it's a time to get back to the basics. And I think that's what 2025 is. It's getting back to doing the job properly, you know, and, and you know, and I fault myself because I should have known this, but sometimes you don't see it, but really like sitting here now, it's just getting back to the basics. So I'm excited and that's exciting to me. It's like the realization is I gotta go back to the basics. I gotta start hammering out the phone calls and it's exciting.”

Such an admirable mindset! 

Jeff Cox Bio & Contact Info

With over 25 years of experience in pharmaceutical recruitment, Jeff has built a career connecting top talent with leading companies. The journey began in 1995 with a first placement made in just 16 days—a milestone that set the stage for decades of success.

Starting with roles such as Clinical Research Associates, Analytical Chemists, and Regulatory Affairs Associates, Jeff steadily progressed to placing Managers, Senior Managers, Associate Directors, and Directors. Today, the focus is on VP-level and executive placements, a natural evolution earned through years of dedication and expertise.

More than just a recruiter, Jeff is a builder—helping biotech and pharmaceutical companies strengthen their leadership teams with experienced professionals who have climbed the ranks step by step. At this level, recruitment goes beyond compensation; it’s about aligning the right people with the right projects to drive innovation and impact.

• Jeff on LinkedIn

• CKR Associates website link

• Pinnacle Society website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Katherine Jerald on LinkedIn

• Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In, R.Fisher

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

• Mark on LinkedIn

• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

• Mark on Facebook

• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

Imagine this: being so meticulous in your candidate screening process invites an unexpected face-to-face investigation from Federal Agents. That is what our special guest, Lee Ann Howard, had to go through when starting as a recruiter in her early 20s. The secret to her 'suspicious' expertise? Simply asking the right questions and listening carefully to candidates.

Lee Ann is the visionary Founder of Howard & O'Brien Executive Search. With a keen eye for identifying top talent in senior management roles and a specialization in HR, finance, and sales and marketing functions, Lee Ann stands as a beacon of excellence in the realm of executive search.

You will surely enjoy Lee Ann’s insights on how to build a continuous pipeline of senior management roles for your clients and what it takes to have long-lasting strategic client relationships.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• 01:18 How Lee Ann left broadcasting to get into recruitment. 
• 05:05 What made Lee Ann stand out in her early years; Her astonishing story of why she had to be investigated by the government because of her recruitment activities.
• 12:05 Emphasizing learning and development.
• 20:04 From corporate to executive search - Lee Ann shares her transition. 
• 27:15 Discussion on the board recruiting business model of Howard & O’Brien.
• 45:48 Lee Ann explains their Conversation with the Board program.
• 48:38 Discussion on their Reverse Placement program.
• 51:17 How to cultivate long-term strategic client relationships.
• 57:30 Making it a family business - how Lee Ann’s children eventually joined her in the business.

Unexpected Government Investigation for Doing a Thorough Job

Lee Ann shared an astonishing story about being investigated by federal agents because of their extensive knowledge of security-cleared roles and positions. 

“I ended up getting investigated by the government because they thought I was a spy because I knew too much … I literally got visited. I was visited by the government. It was unbelievable because I was sitting in my office and the receptionist came back and they said, there's somebody here from the government to see you. And I'm like, I've paid my taxes because that's the only thing I thought I could possibly do wrong. And I got taken into a conference room and they said, we believe you know too much about what's happening. And I'm like, no, I'm not a spy. I don't work for Russia.”

This made her realize that she was probably doing something right if she was getting information that other people were not getting in their industry. Indeed she was! Asking the right questions, and being meticulous in her job, contributed highly in her success as a recruiter and later on as a recruitment business owner. Some of the takeaways on Lee Ann’s success factors are as follows:

• Instinctive Recruiting Ability

• Curiosity and Continuous Learning 

• Strong Relationship Building

• Commitment to Hard Work

• Personalized Approach 

• Client and Candidate Engagement

• Being Not Focused on Sales, But on Relationships 

Which of the above success factors resonate most with you as a recruiter or business owner?

Board Recruiting, Conversation with the Board, and Reverse Placement Programs

Lee Ann also discussed key strategies that they implement in Howard & O’Brien with the focus of providing a continuous stream of C-level talents to their clients. The three main programs she discussed are Board Recruiting, Conversation with the Board, and Reverse Placement. Below are the key concepts of the programs:

Board Recruiting

Board recruiting is the process of identifying and placing individuals in board positions for organizations. Unlike traditional executive search, it involves adding responsibilities rather than replacing someone. The process includes:

• Engaging with CEOs, board chairs, or governance committees to define the board’s needs.

• Creating a strategic long-term plan for board composition.

• Ensuring cultural fit and alignment with the company’s strategic direction.

Conversation with the Board

This is a program aimed at increasing diversity and exposing more candidates—particularly women—to board opportunities. It was developed as a way to help executives, who may not see themselves as board material, realize their potential for board service. It involves:

• Facilitating networking opportunities between potential board members and current board leaders.

• Encouraging companies to consider non-traditional candidates who bring valuable perspectives.

Reverse Placement Programs

This is a specialized career development service for executives looking to join boards. It is either funded by companies or individuals and serves as a way for leaders to continue their professional growth. It provides:

• Guidance on positioning oneself for board roles.

• Strategic networking with board leaders.

These programs put Lee Ann’s team in a strategic position, providing them a long-term relationship-building with existing clients. 

Cultivating Long-Term Strategic Relationships

On this topic, Lee Ann summarized what can make you stand out with the following experience she had: “What makes you different is what you're trying to do. And I think it's the little things. There was a marketing person that I was interviewing for a job and she knew I'd just gotten a new puppy and she sent me this little assortment of stuff for my puppy. Now I still remember that because, I mean, she listened to what I was saying. It, you know, she probably spent $20 on it. But what an impact.”

It is indeed the little things you do. Some of the best practices that Lee Ann and her team have been doing over the years are as follows:

Long-Term Value Over Transactions – They prioritize relationships rather than quick sales, consistently providing valuable insights, industry articles, and strategic advice.

Community Engagement – Each team member is involved in community initiatives, reinforcing their reputation as good corporate stewards and deepening trust with clients.

Personalized Touchpoints – They maintain relationships through handwritten thank-you notes, customized gifts (e.g., olive oil or cherry salsa), and small but meaningful gestures that make an impact.

Being Helpful Beyond Business – They go beyond recruitment by assisting clients in unexpected ways, like recommending a plumber and reinforcing their role as trusted advisors.

Their approach is centered on authenticity, generosity, and a long-term mindset, setting them apart from competitors. As Lee Ann concluded, “It is putting yourself second and putting others first.”

Lee Ann Howard Bio & Contact Info

As Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Howard & O’Brien, Lee Ann Howard brings with her a passion for understanding people and dedication to following their journey in executive leadership. In her 25 years of connecting high-caliber candidates with her clients, she has solidified her reputation in driving quantifiable success for million and billion-dollar companies across North America. 

Lee Ann leads a Women-Owned Business and carries this spirit into diversity, inclusion, and equitable placement strategies. 

Lee Ann founded Conversations with the Board® in 2001 and continues to lead workshops for those who serve or have the desire to serve boards. She is currently on the board of the American Heart Association as Leadership Development Co-chair and past Board Chair as well as Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) Family Business Center Advisory Committee. She has served on the boards of MetroHealth Foundation Board - Membership Committee Chair; the John Carroll University Entrepreneur Association - Executive Committee; In Counsel with Women - Membership Chair, The Gathering Place, Women’s Community Foundation, and Business Volunteers Unlimited (BVU).

Lee Ann is especially passionate about and involved in the shared impact of individuals in greater Cleveland. Over the course of her career, she has received the National Association of Women Business Owners Top Ten Award in Northeast Ohio, the Athena Award, and the Medical Mutual Pillar Award for Community Service.

• Lee Ann on LinkedIn

• Howard & O’Brien website link

• Howard & O’Brien on LinkedIn

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

• Mark on LinkedIn

• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

• Mark on Facebook

• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

In this episode, we are joined by Rickard Fritjofsson. He’s the founder and CEO of a successful multi-brand recruitment company, Worldwiders, that has placed over 5,000 people in 40 countries.

Rickard discussed key elements of their company culture, influenced by sports principles, including clear career paths and collaborative goal-setting. As a recruitment business owner, it will also resonate with you how he addressed challenges such as downsizing due to market fluctuations which is a great business case of how being resilient will allow you to turn around unfavorable situations into learnings and advantages.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:48] How Rickard got into recruitment and how his role as the coach of Norway’s national Bandy team influences his leadership.

• [08:11] Why Rickard focuses on international jobs as his niche.

• [13:34] Growing from 0 to $5m in six years - discussion of Nordic Jobs Worldwide’s early days.

• [21:56] Trigger to decide on when to make the next hire in your recruitment firm.

• [23:35] Discussion about the business model and the management of portfolios.

• [26:46] Key success factors when rapidly growing their team.

• [36:42] Prioritizing career development of team members via progression and support projects.

• [45:30] Learnings that forced them to downsize and restructure.

Targeting International Jobs as a Niche

A unique selling proposition of Rickard and his team is their focus on international jobs as a niche. “So I did some research and figured out that no company in the world, even if the recruitment industry is big, is doing the niche of language recruitment of Nordics… So we were the first to step into that niche in 2016. So Norwegian, Swedish Danish, and Finnish were the specialization, and the business developed there. And we decided also to build it organically, like stone by stone.” 

Being observant of industry needs, Rickard came up with an impactful solution and built their business from there. He shared their three main objectives when launching their recruitment business: build a company organically, scale the business, and be the best in what they do. So far, Rickard and his team are on track to achieving these three main goals since starting their business in 2016.

Key Success Factors Contributing to Rapid Growth

An astonishing feat that Rickard and his team have accomplished is the rapid sustainable growth of their company since its inception. He grew the company from 0 to $5m in just six years. They have placed over 5000 people in 40 countries and they have 400+ clients worldwide. What would Rickard consider as a success factor contributing to this growth? Here are some takeaways:

• Core Values-Driven Culture – Embedding Courage, Trust, and Results into daily operations and decision-making.

• Clear Career Progression – Offering fast internal growth opportunities, and motivating employees to excel.

• Decisive Expansion Strategy – Rapidly opening offices in Barcelona and Lisbon, executing growth plans with confidence.

• Market-Aligned Scaling – Capitalizing on post-2022 industry demand to scale efficiently.

• Performance-Driven Mindset – Fostering a "best in the world" mentality, akin to elite sports teams (due to his background in Bandy)

• Client Partnership Approach – Positioning as strategic advisors rather than just service providers.

• Culture of Celebration – Recognizing achievements through company-wide events, awards, and gatherings.

Rickard said,  “From day one, when we started the business, we also put up core values and they are still active in the company. We also have three keywords: courage, trust, and result. So it's like having the courage to climb Mount Everest and call it taking strategic risks, putting the trust in the people we are hiring, and from that getting the results”

Overcoming Challenges - From Scaling to Downsizing

Rickard has also been very generous in sharing their resilience mindset when overcoming challenges. The last two years have been challenging: from scaling from 0-90 employees to downsizing to 60 again and cutting costs to meet the market situation is a scenario that Rickard is not used to. 

However, you will hear in our conversation his resilient recruiter mindset and how getting out of his comfort zone makes him a strong CEO who can turn around unfavorable situations. He was specific in action points that they are doing differently such as implementation of stricter financial controls and a return to foundational recruitment practices, with plans to scale responsibly with improved processes. 

If you are a recruitment entrepreneur and leader, you will surely be able to relate to what he shared in his experience. Have you navigated a similar scenario as a leader before?

Rickard Fritjofsson  Bio & Contact Info

Rickard Fritjofsson is a Swedish citizen living in Norway for the past 15 years, with an apartment in Málaga, Spain that allows him to enjoy both northern and southern European lifestyles. He is the founder of Worldwiders, a multi-brand recruitment company specializing in Language Recruitment, IT, and Executive Search, serving 400+ clients across 40+ countries. Passionate about the blend of sports and business. Former bandy player, now the national coach for Team Norway, leading them to a World Cup bronze medal.

• Rickard on LinkedIn

• Worldwiders website link

• Nordic Job Worldwide website link

• Asian Job Worldwide website link

• IT Jobs Worldwide website link

• Multilingual Jobs Worldwide website link

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

• Mark on LinkedIn

• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

• Mark on Facebook

• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Not everyone is born to become a recruiter, but this may be the case for our special guest, Rachel Filby. When her father convinced her to pursue a career in recruitment, she never hesitated and firmly believed that it was one of the best decisions of her life. In her first year with Michael Page, she became a top biller, and she now runs her own recruitment agency, RF Recruitment.

In this episode, you will hear about the very specific success factors that led to her becoming a top performer and how she successfully transitioned to becoming a consistently successful solopreneur.

Rachel has 20 years of recruitment experience, initially working for one of the largest recruitment agencies in the world. 

In the Financial Times Survey 2024, Rachel Filby was recognized as one of the top 150 recruiters in the UK. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [01:09] How Rachel got into recruiting and how she became the number one biller at Michael Page.

• [11:21] Five success factors in becoming a top billing perm recruiter in the UK in her first year.

• [19:33] Thought process that motivates Rachel’s sense of urgency.

• [25:22] Discussion on rapid career trajectory and development as a leader.

• [32:00] Launching RF Recruitment agency during COVID and while integrating family life.

• [40:55] Rachel reveals her typical day-to-day process (past-present-future approach).

• [48:13] Best practices on lead generation and business development.

• [1:00:55] Rapid fire questions - business model, tech stack, etc.

Five Success Factors of Becoming the Top Biller in Her First Year as a Recruiter

Rachel initially wanted a career in media, but her father recommended that she take recruitment as a career path. At 21, she started her career with Michael Page and became a top biller in her first year!  Although she primarily attributes her success to the great training she received from Michael Page, I found five success factors that could resonate well with many aspiring recruiters who also plan to become future recruitment business owners:

• Commitment to Training and Preparation: Rachel took her training seriously, treating it with the level of commitment often reserved for seasoned professionals. 

• Strong Work Ethic and Dedication: Her willingness to work long hours and focus on her tasks set her apart. 

• Genuine Passion for People: Her empathy and listening skills allowed her to build meaningful relationships and understand individuals' unique needs, making her a trusted advisor during critical moments in their careers.

• Focus on High Activity Levels and KPIs: Rachel consistently met or exceeded her KPIs, which ensured a steady pipeline of candidates and opportunities.

• Sense of Urgency and Speed: Rachel’s natural inclination for urgency enabled her to act swiftly on opportunities. 

Together, these factors, along with the right mindset and strategy, propelled Rachel to outstanding success in her first year as a recruiter. This also led to a strong career trajectory, with her getting an early promotion as a manager.

Using the Past-Present-Future Approach in Day-to-Day Business

As a recruitment solopreneur, it can be challenging for Rachel to handle the end-to-end process of her business due to capacity challenges. This is also on top of her duty as a mother, as she places high value on taking care of her kids. I wanted to know her day-to-day process and how she can sustain her momentum in successfully running her business with consistent billing and client acquisition.

She explained, “I kind of separate my, my thought process and on my business in kind of three areas. So it's past, present, and future.”

She elaborated that the “past” means protecting the money she made or existing relationships. This entails a lot of aftercare and ensuring that relationships are continuously maintained.

The “present” is explained as “Then I have kind of the present, which is jobs I'm currently recruiting, candidates I'm currently working with. That's my kind of here-and-now. So, you know, I guess there's a bit of a sweet spot of how many jobs, you know, you have that you can do a really good job on within the time that you have. And you don't really want too many more than that or too many less than that.”

The “future” refers to business development and lead generation to secure the source of the next job.

Do you also apply the same approach to your business?

Best Practices on Lead Generation and Business Development

When discussing the “future” principle, I wanted to pick Rachel’s brains on her approach to business development and lead generation as well as how much time she spends in this aspect of her business. Below are some takeaways:

1. Proactive and Low-Pressure Engagement

Rachel consistently monitors her niche market, staying updated on who’s hiring and when they might need her services. She engages early in the recruitment process with no expectation of immediately winning the job, allowing her to build rapport without pressuring the client.

2. Intentional Targeting and Tailored Communication

Her outreach is bespoke and personal—whether it’s a phone call, LinkedIn message, or email—avoiding generic marketing materials in favor of tailored communication that resonates with potential clients.

3. Prioritizing Connection Through Calls

Despite the prevalence of digital communication, Rachel emphasizes the power of phone calls as the foundation of strong client relationships. She supplements this with follow-ups via voicemail, email, and LinkedIn to ensure she remains on their radar.

Rachel Filby Bio & Contact Info

Rachel Filby has 20 years of recruitment experience working initially for one of the largest recruitment agencies in the world and now runs her recruitment agency specializing in Facilities Management Recruitment. Rachel Filby is recognized as one of the top 150 recruiters in the UK in the Financial Times Survey 2024. 

• Rachel on LinkedIn

• RF Recruit website link

People and Resources Mentioned 

• Firefish 

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

• Mark on LinkedIn

• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

• Mark on Facebook

• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.