In this expansive and thought-provoking conversation, Dr. Lauren D. Sawyer unpacks the complex legacy of purity culture—tracing its historical roots, cultural entanglements, and deeply personal impact. Drawing from her academic research and lived experience, Lauren explores how purity culture is not just a theological framework, but a social system shaped by race, power, and control.

Together, we examine how purity culture has been influenced by historical moral panics like the "white slavery" scare, and how its ideals have been disproportionately constructed around white femininity. Lauren offers a critical lens on how these narratives intersect with white supremacy, while also highlighting the varied ways purity culture is experienced across different identities.

The conversation moves into the role of queer theory in reimagining sexuality, particularly as it relates to children and adolescents. Lauren challenges dominant assumptions about childhood innocence, emphasizing the importance of recognizing children as moral agents with the capacity for curiosity, embodiment, and choice. We also explore the concept of childism and why it's essential to creating more ethical, inclusive frameworks for discussing sexuality.

We also expound on the idea of "orgasmic failure" and how redefining sexual success can open up more compassionate, realistic understandings of intimacy and connection. Throughout the episode, Lauren emphasizes the importance of storytelling and narrative in reshaping how we understand sexuality, identity, and belonging.

With insight and care, Lauren discusses how therapy and education can support healing from purity culture, while also creating space for more honest, age-appropriate conversations about bodies, consent, and power. She introduces a more human-centered sexual ethic—one that prioritizes agency, relational awareness, and embodied knowledge over rigid rules and shame-based narratives.

This episode invites listeners to question inherited beliefs, listen more deeply to young people, and imagine a more inclusive, liberating approach to sexual ethics.

Guest Dr. Lauren D. Sawyer is a scholar, educator, and researcher specializing in Christian social ethics, gender studies, and purity culture. She serves as Affiliate Faculty at The Seattle School and Manager of Curriculum and Instruction at The Allender Center. Her forthcoming book, Growing Up Pure: White Girls, Queer Teens, and the Racial Foundations of Purity Culture (NYU Press, 2025), explores the intersections of race, gender, and evangelical sexual ethics.

What does it actually mean to "honor your parents" when the relationship is strained, distant, or painful? In this thoughtful and nuanced episode, we explore the tension between faith, family expectations, and lived experience. We unpack cultural and biblical interpretations of honor, distinguish it from obedience and access, and offer a compassionate framework for navigating boundaries, estrangement, and healing.

This conversation makes space for complexity—acknowledging grief, validating emotional realities, and encouraging self-awareness—while offering grounded insights into how respect and integrity can coexist with necessary distance.

We invite our listeners into a more spacious, honest understanding of family relationships—one that allows for both compassion and clarity. Honoring your parents doesn't mean abandoning yourself. It may, instead, look like living truthfully, setting wise boundaries, and choosing dignity for everyone involved—including you.

Email: [email protected]

Instagram: @wheredowegopod

Patreon: patreon.com/wheredowegopod

Key Themes & Topics

• Reframing Honor: Moving beyond simplistic definitions to understand honor as dignity, integrity, and non-dehumanization—not blind obedience or unlimited access.
• Scripture: A brief look at Exodus 20:12, Ephesians 6:1–4, and Colossians 3:21, including the often-overlooked responsibilities of parents.
• Boundaries as Healthy & Necessary: Understanding that boundaries are not rejection, but clarity—creating space for sustainable, honest relationships.
• Psychological Realities of Family Dynamics: Discussing attachment patterns, emotional distance, enmeshment, and the long-term impact of early relationships.
• Estrangement & Cultural Shifts: Examining increasing trends in low-contact relationships and generational differences in how family, duty, and emotional health are prioritized.
• Compassion Without Excusing Harm: Holding empathy for parents while still naming personal truth and honoring lived experience.
• Grief, Healing & Self-Awareness: Making room for mourning the relationship you hoped for, while moving toward acceptance and growth.

WWJD article: https://thefaithfulcitizen.substack.com/p/where-did-jesus-go?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1pgj0j&triedRedirect=true

Estrangement articles:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jomf.12898

Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents

https://bookshop.org/p/books/adult-children-of-emotionally-immature-parents-how-to-heal-from-distant-rejecting-or-self-involved-parents-psy-d-lindsay-c-gibson-psyd/c76b830ed14fe568?ean=9781626251700&next=t

The Place We Find Ourselves - 4 part series called "Engaging with Someone Who Has Harmed You" (episodes 93 to 96)

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2zk8LNivIxf2vH0bj4q1V8?si=8ed69a76f0af407c

In this deeply insightful and expansive conversation, Chantal McKinney shares her journey through spiritual deconstruction, healing from church harm, and reimagining faith beyond traditional structures. Drawing from her experiences as an ordained priest, mystic Christian, and community builder, Chantal invites listeners into a vision of church rooted in love, inclusion, and the divine feminine.

Together, we explore the impact of systemic misogyny in faith spaces, the power of prayer and inner authority, and what it means to co-create a more compassionate and expansive spiritual future. This episode is a powerful resource for anyone navigating faith shifts, seeking healing, or longing for authentic, liberating community.

Petition mentioned: https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/los-women

About Chantal McKinney

Chantal McKinney is an author, mystic Christian, and visionary leader dedicated to supporting those on the margins of traditional church spaces. A former Episcopal priest, she is now the founder of Root Thrive Soar, Founding Pastor of Christ's Beloved Community, and founder of Contemporary Mystics Publishing.

Through her work, Chantal creates supportive networks for those impacted by church harm and for spiritually expansive individuals seeking new expressions of faith. She lives in North Carolina with her family.

Chantal's book: Following Jesus Beyond Church Walls: A Catalyst for Your Spiritual Growth available here: https://a.co/d/01oNjK8R

Learn more:

• chantalmckinney.com
• rootthrivesoar.com
• contemporarymysticspublishing.com
• Petition: https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/los-women

Key Themes & Topics

• Spiritual deconstruction and faith reconstruction
• Healing from church harm and systemic misogyny
• The divine feminine and reimagining God
• The role of prayer and Christ's example
• Reclaiming inner authority and spiritual autonomy
• Building authentic community outside institutional church
• Co-creating the future of Christianity
• The mass "exodus" from traditional church structures
• Reframing angels, demons, and spiritual language
• Spiral fractals as a model for spiritual growth
• Jesus' spiral prayer in John 17 reflects both spiritual growth and interconnectedness—like fractals in nature:

o Begin with praying for yourself

o Extend prayer to family and friends

o Move outward toward the broader community, your state and nation.

o Pray for the world

In this insightful and empowering conversation, educator and domestic equity expert Laura Danger joins us to unpack the invisible systems shaping our homes, relationships, and sense of fairness.

With over a decade in education and a background in special education, Laura brings a practical, inclusive lens to topics many families struggle to name—let alone solve. As the creator of That Darn Chat and the author of No More Mediocre, she helps people navigate burnout, emotional labor, weaponized incompetence, and the unequal distribution of care work.

Together, we explore how societal expectations around gender and parenting continue to influence family dynamics—and what it actually takes to build more equitable, supportive partnerships at home.

Laura shares actionable strategies for discussing redistribution of labor, reducing resentment, and moving toward intentional, egalitarian relationships—without perfectionism.

What We Cover

• The differences between physical, emotional, and mental workload
• Emotional and mental loads are real, measurable, and often unevenly distributed
• The estimated monetary value of a care worker, particularly a parent
• The impact of gender roles in parenting and partnership
• Navigating relationship challenges while striving for equity
• The cultural pressure of motherhood and its consequences
• Why many online parenting spaces center "motherhood" over inclusive "parenthood"
• Domestic engineering and social reproduction

• We are all carers and care work is essential labor
• Egalitarian relationships require intentional conversations not assumptions
• How to recognize incompetence versus weaponized incompetence
• Negotiating who is competent to complete various tasks as care givers in one household
• Mental health challenges in care work
• New family structures
• Community support plays a crucial role in sustainable change

About the Guest

Laura Danger is an educator and domestic equity expert helping individuals and couples navigate household labor, mental load, and relationship dynamics. She is the creator of That Darn Chat and author of No More Mediocre, and her work has been featured in major outlets including HuffPost and Business Insider.

Connect with Laura:

Website: lauradanger.com

Instagram: @thatdarnchat

In this special bonus episode, we're giving you a behind-the-scenes look at what a typical month sounds like on the Where Do We Go From Here? Podcast.

You'll hear:

• An excerpt from our March RomCom Recap
• Sneak peeks from two upcoming April interviews
• Clips from EDJ's conversation with Dr. Kevin Jenson on the Epstein files
• A teaser from March News & Views
• A timely reminder from February's No Hard Feelings discussion

This episode is designed to give both new and longtime listeners a feel for the range of conversations we explore—from pop culture and media analysis to deeper discussions on power, purity culture, and sexual ethics within deconstruction spaces.

Supporting the Podcast

Some of our content is free for all listeners, while other episodes are available exclusively through our Patreon community.

For just $3 USD/month (roughly $4–5 AUD/CAD or just over $5 NZD), paid subscribers get full access to:

• The complete RomCom Recap
• Full News & Views episodes
• The Epstein Files deep dive
• All interviews

This episode also breaks down where your support goes and shares additional ways you can help sustain the podcast.

www.patreon.com/wheredowegopod

A Note from the Hosts

We deeply appreciate every listener. We know transitions can be challenging, especially as we move from the original hosts, Devi and Jessica—who built something truly meaningful—to our current host:

EDJ (Eady Jay / Evangelical Deconstruction Journey)

Our hope is that you'll continue with us as we:

• Learn and grow together
• Engage thoughtfully with faith deconstruction
• Explore topics like purity culture and sexual ethics
• And keep asking the question: Where do we go from here?

Stay Connected

• Follow, rate, and comment
• Find us on Instagram @wheredowegopod
• Review the podcast and share episodes with friends
• Join us in the Green Room March 31st (April 1st AUS / NZ) & April 28th/29th
• Join us on Patreon for full access and bonus content: www.patreon.com/wheredowegopod

Does church still have a purpose when you're questioning everything you were taught?

· EDJ, Emily and Kristen share their current relationship with church and one word (or a few) describing their deconstruction season.

· They discuss what church actually is and what they find important about a church or spiritual community.

· They suggest that podcasts and online communities are ways of doing and being "church."

· They explore questions around why people leave church and why people stay, particularly during deconstruction. Some of the reasons mentioned for leaving have to do with panic attacks or anxiety, burnout, LGBTQIA+ concerns or disagreements. Reasons for staying vary from relationships, to worship practices, to wanting to give children exposure to other opinions about God, to quality discussion with others and more.

· The hosts delve into the gender (sex) of people attending church and why in the past this has been more feminine, but in the present leans more masculine. Naturally, they look at patriarchy and hierarchical issues, women preachers, pastors and leaders, and gender equity.

· Kristen, Emily and EDJ, question the future of church and what it could evolve to become. They discuss Denominations that might be considered "safer" or more "progressive," and some denominations they would no longer attend.

· Finally, the hosts discuss two Reddit questions for their unsolicited advice section: 1) I wish I didn't start deconstructing & 2) Parents keep asking me to go to church

· Find us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wheredowegopod/

· Support this podcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/wheredowegopod

In this episode, EDJ interviews Adam Harris, the Executive Pastor at God Why? Church—a church built on people's raw and unfiltered questions. He earned a B.A. at Oral Roberts University, a Masters of Theology at Vanderbilt University, and a Doctorate of Leadership at Portland Seminary. He is dedicated to integrating spiritual formation and education for a faith equipped for the 21st century.

Adam shares his journey to God Why? church, discussing the impact of purity culture, the challenges of deconstruction, and the stages of faith as outlined by James Fowler. He reflects on the emotional turmoil of navigating faith and doubt, the role of conscience shaped by cultural constructs, and the importance of complex conversations across different beliefs. He emphasizes the need for liberation from shame and the value of community in spiritual growth.

In this conversation, EDJ and Adam explore the evolution of their own faith journeys, the complexities of belief, and the importance of love and compassion. They discuss personal experiences with loss, the impact of near-death experiences and research, and the challenges of dogmatism and political division within faith communities. The dialogue emphasizes the need for civil discourse, understanding, and the role of community in fostering spiritual growth.

Breakdown:

• Pastor Adam Harris shares his journey to God Why Church: www.GodWhy.com
• The church's name reflects a commitment to addressing questions about faith.
• Growing up in purity culture led to feelings of shame around sexuality. One youth pastor taught that nocturnal emissions were sinful.
• In some ways marrying young helped alleviate shame for Harris, but he urges that the broader framework of purity culture—the shame and the fear of punishment—needs to be deconstructed.
• Exposure to biblical criticism challenged Adam's understanding of faith.
• Navigating faith and doubt is a common experience for many.
• James Fowler's stages of faith provide a framework for understanding spiritual development.
• Stage four of faith often involves emotional turmoil and confusion.
• The shift to stage five allows for more complex conversations about faith.
• Peer pressure can manifest in various ways within faith communities. Embracing a new concept of God can lead to profound changes in faith.
• Personal loss can significantly impact one's faith journey and facilitate a shift from one stage to another
• Universalism and progressive Christianity can be just as dogmatic as conservative Christianity.
• EDJ and Adam explore universalism and the universality of God's love
• Adam shares research into near-death experiences and the insight they offer to the love of God.
• Perception of God influences mental and emotional health.
• Positive thinking can rewire the brain for better emotional health.
• Adam mentions the book "How God Changes Your Brain" by Andrew Newberg.
• Truth can be subjective and vary from person to person.
• Experiential faith emphasizes the importance of lived experiences.
• Compassion is essential in navigating faith and relationships.
• Deconstruction can lead to humility and a deeper understanding of others.
• The illusion of separation can hinder our understanding of community.
• Political division can stem from different stages of faith development or from reverting back to the same mental operating system despite changing beliefs.
• Civil discourse is necessary for bridging divides in faith communities.
• Experiencing love can transform perspectives on others. Adam shares a powerful spiritual experience he had in 2025.
• Listening to people at all different points on the political spectrum is crucial to stage five and beneficial to broader society.
• Fighting injustice should be done with love and compassion.
• Boundaries are important in maintaining healthy relationships.
• Community and connection are vital for spiritual growth.

In this episode of No Hard Feelings, EDJ, Kristen and Emily explore the complex history and cultural significance of surnames, particularly focusing on the tradition of women changing their last names. They discuss the historical context of coverture, the evolution of women's rights, and the impact of naming conventions across different cultures. The conversation also delves into modern practices in queer relationships, the legal and political implications of name changes, and the intersection of identity and faith. Throughout the episode, the hosts emphasize the importance of personal choice and reflection in navigating these topics, ultimately inviting listeners to consider what their surnames mean to them.

Subscribe to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/wheredowegopod

· Coverture definition: English Common law defining a married woman's legal identity as suspended and merged into her husband's, creating a single legal entity. A wife couldn't own property, sign documents, sue in their own name. Things like "Mrs. John Smith" convention come from this.

· History: English tradition that began sometime after the Norman Conquest around the 11-15th Century;

· In 1765, is when it was codified into English law which is part of how it became a piece of both American and Australian tradition.

· Lucy Stone became the first recorded American women to insist on keeping her birth name in 1855 and there were other laws in the mid 1800s that allowed property ownership and changed some inheritance laws.

· 1966 is when the US Supreme Court states covertures was "obsolete" but it was still in existence in at least 11 states. Within the 1970s - with the rise of feminism and continued Supreme Court rulings laws requiring women to change their name were far more widely removed.

· Only about 20% of women keep their birth name currently.

· Patronymic names - surname based on the given name of a person's father/paternal lineage - ie Danish tradition "Christiansen" literally means "Christian's Son." or in Russian "Ivanovich" would be Ivan's son. Some Scandinavian traditions also used "datter" for a female child.

· Hispanic tradition - generally 2 surnames. First surname represents the paternal line and second surname the maternal line. Women typically keep their name after marriage and children then take the first surname of each parent. So Juan García Martinez marries Maria Lopez Rodriguez and their child is Anna Garcia Lopez. See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surnames_by_country#English-speaking_countries

· No default tradition in queer partnerships. Options: keep, hyphenate, combine, create new name.

· Legal navigation in states with varying protections. While still protected federally under Obergefell and Respect for Marriage Act, Tennessee alone has advanced five anti-LGBTQIA+ marriage bills THIS WEEK

· Voter registration and ID laws require exact name matches.

· Marriage/divorce name changes complicate registration.

· Administrative burden often falls on women

· Hosts delve into "unsolicited advice" at the end of the episode, discussing deconstruction, adult music choices and church attendance.

· Stay tuned for the next episode of No Hard Feelings where we will unpack the purpose of church during deconstruction some more!

Jess' Archive Bundles (available until 28 February 2026): • The Jess and Devi Show (2021–2025) – $30 • The Jess and Friends Show (2025) – $10 Discounts available for paid and free Patreon members.

Raised in an agnostic family in Adelaide, Australia, Jason John studied zoology because he wanted to work with animals. After these scientific studies, Jason experienced a spiritual transformation that led him to became a six-day creationist, no-sex-before-marriage Conservative Evangelical with a dose of the Charismatic and a dash of Pentecostalism.

At theological college he discovered that Christianity was a very broad umbrella, re-embraced evolution and, though married himself, advocated for a more open approach to sexuality within the church.

He explores the intersection of science, Christianity, politics and Earth Care as an ordained minister and founder of ecofaith.org. Jason is also a performance poet and author. Listeners of this podcast can download his book Faithful Fornication: Bacteria, Bonobos the Bible and Beyond for free from ecofaith.org/freebies, password SpiritualMisfits, with the hopes that they will rate and review it on Goodreads and Amazon.

Jason has B.Sc in Zoology and a Post Grad Diploma in Environmental Studies from Adelaide University; B.Min & PhD in Theology from Flinders University.

In this episode of the Where Do We Go From Here podcast, host EDJ and Jason John explore Jason's journey from agnosticism to Christianity, the impact of purity culture on the church, and the evolution of human relationships. This conversation delves into the contrasting creation stories of the Bible and scientific evolution as well as the role of Jesus in modern Christianity. They discuss the importance of open and deeply honest communication in relationships and the past, present, and future of monogamy.

• Jason's book "Christian Sex Today" was attracting the wrong kinds of readers. Conservative Christians found it too progressive and progressives assumed it was conservative and weren't picking it up. So, Jason changed the title to "Faithful Fornication."
• When he became a Christian Jason initially rejected his scientific studies to embrace a literal 6-7day creation story.
• When he attended seminary, Jason learned that not all Christians reject evolution and he was able to re-negotiate his Christian beliefs in light of his scientific studies.
• Jason contrasts the Genesis creation stories with the evolution story: In the beginning…life reproduced asexually.
• EDJ and Jason discuss how life evolved from asexual reproduction to hermaphrodite and homosexual reproduction and eventually to heterosexual reproduction and the implications for Christianity.
• Jason elaborates on gametes and DNA including the unique (and exquisite) DNA of the platypus.
• The Bible should be approached as a historical document rather than a literal guide.
• Jesus' teachings emphasize love, grace, and acts of kindness and service to one another. This is a conservative view and yet it stands in contrast to American-Evangelicalism which has an over-emphasis on sexual behavior and identity and an under-emphasis on the beatitudes and Jesus' more challenging teachings.
• EDJ and Jason touch on the history of monogamy, polyamory, polygamy and polygyny and where homo sapiens' may be headed.
• Jason talks about Freud and the invention of the vibrator to treat women with "hysteria" by inducing orgasms.
• Women have a very similar libido to men.
• Open communication is essential in relationships to avoid secrecy and shame.
• Domestic abuse is a critical issue that needs to be addressed within the church.
• Human relationships are evolving, with changing views on monogamy and commitment.

To listen to the entire 73min episode for free, subscribe to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/wheredowegopod

Jess' Archive Bundles (available until 28 February 2026): • The Jess and Devi Show (2021–2025) – $30 • The Jess and Friends Show (2025) – $10 Discounts available for paid and free Patreon members.

In this episode, Katherine Spearing discusses her experiences with spiritual abuse, particularly within the contexts of purity culture and the Christian Patriarchy Movement. She shares insights on how these environments shape beliefs about gender roles, emotional labor, and personal values. The conversation explores the dynamics of cult-like behavior in religious communities, the importance of consent, and the journey towards healing from spiritual trauma. Katherine emphasizes the need for diverse communities and the significance of understanding one's own emotions as a pathway to recovery.

Takeaways:

· Many churches perpetuate patriarchal values under the guise of spirituality.

· Spiritual abuse often uses religious texts to control behavior.

· Purity culture is overt spiritual abuse that can lead to significant emotional and psychological harm.

· Women are often conditioned to prioritize perfection over bravery.

· Emotional labor disproportionately falls on women, even in egalitarian settings.

· Spiritual bypassing can invalidate genuine feelings of grief and sadness.

· Differentiation of feelings is crucial for healthy relationships.

· Healing from spiritual abuse requires understanding personal values and emotions.

· Diverse communities provide essential support for recovery from spiritual trauma.

Katherine has a Masters of religion and culture. She grew up in an extreme Christian patriarchal movement (a cult) and has worked for several evangelical churches. After leaving spiritually abusive workplaces, she went on to found Tears of Eden, a nonprofit supporting survivors of Spiritual Abuse, producing and hosting its groundbreaking affiliate podcast Uncertain, which pioneered pivotal conversations around Spiritual Abuse and has been quoted in scholarly articles, seminary papers, and PhD dissertations. Her book, A Thousand Tiny Papercuts was published in October 2025.

Find Katherine on Instagram: @katherinespearing & @tearsofedenofficial

And websites: www.katherinespearing.com & www.tearsofeden.org

Jess' Archive Bundles (available until 28 February 2026): • The Jess and Devi Show (2021–2025) – $30 • The Jess and Friends Show (2025) – $10 Discounts available for paid and free Patreon members.

This episode marks the final chapter of Where Do We Go From Here? hosted by Jess, and it's centred on a deeply personal, wide-ranging conversation with long-time co-host and author Eady Jay.

At the heart of the episode is an interview about Eady's latest book, Reconstructing Sexual Ethics, a part-memoir, part-theological work that traces her journey from growing up in Australian evangelical purity culture to reimagining a Christian sexual ethic shaped by grace, consent, dignity, and justice.

The conversation moves fluidly between personal story and theological reflection, including:

• Eady's early public commitment to abstinence and the "virgin vs vixen" binary she was placed into as a teenager

• How purity culture shaped desire, shame, mental health, and expectations around marriage

• Why deconstruction alone isn't enough, and what reconstruction actually requires

• The vulnerability and risk of speaking about sex personally, not just abstractly

• Reframing Christian sexual ethics around consent, love, and lived experience

• Navigating progressive and conservative tensions without collapsing into certainty

The episode also includes the regular Thoughts & Prayers segments:

• Unsolicited Advice for Christians on Reddit, including a candid discussion about "body count," virginity, and the long shadow of purity culture

• A closing Prayer of the People, holding space for grief, justice, transition, and hope

This episode is both a farewell and a handover, honouring what this space has held while opening the door to what comes next.

Get the Bundles:

The Jess and Devi Show Bundle - $30USD (++ on iOS)

The Jess and Friends Show Bundle - $10USD (++ on iOS)

If you're looking for discounts as a previous Patreon member, send a request via email to: [email protected]

Links Mentioned / Relevant Resources

• Eady Jay's website and bio: https://evangelicaldeconstructionjourney.com

• Reconstructing Sexual Ethics (book): https://evangelicaldeconstructionjourney.com

• Patreon archive bundles: https://www.patreon.com/wheredowegopod/collections

• Making Biblical Womanhood by Beth Allison Barr (mentioned in discussion)

• Sheila Wray Gregoire's work on consent and arousal non-concordance (referenced)

If you're looking for support after sexual assault (USA)

If this episode brings things up for you, you're not alone, and help is available. Healing support does not require certainty, a clear memory, or a particular story. You deserve care simply because something hurt you. Immediate and confidential support:

RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) Call 800-656-HOPE (4673) Chat online at rainn.org Available 24/7. Free, confidential, and anonymous.