Sometimes it's lunch, sometimes it's dinner. Sometimes you're one, sometimes you're a family of 4. Sometimes it's a side, sometimes you're starving. How does a food brand answer all of these consumer/human need-states?

STOCKED has created a product category that didn't previously exist: chef-made, frozen blocks of deliciousness -  that you can choose to eat in 2,4 or 6 - you do it your way.

In this episode of Brand Growth Heroes, I'm joined by Sam Moss and Charlie Gilpin, the co-founders of Stocked, which is chef-made frozen food and reinventing the ready meal with portion-sized blocks that customers can heat, combine and serve however they like. 

We talk about their extraordinary brand growth journey, from launching direct-to-consumer and cooking everything themselves to appearing on Dragons' Den, building their own manufacturing operation and securing listings with Ocado, Waitrose and Sainsbury's.

I first met Sam and Charlie in 2022 when they joined the Brand Growth Heroes strategy programme, and it's been AMAZING to see what they've built since. What makes their story particularly valuable for founders scaling consumer brands is how many apparently difficult decisions have become genuine strengths. Manufacturing in-house, keeping their product range focused on one type of food, and asking consumers to do a little of the preparation themselves might not sound like the obvious route to scale. But each has helped Stocked build a differentiated proposition. We also get into the realities of scaling a team, the advantages of having a co-founder you've known since childhood, and why growing a business doesn't necessarily mean making the product more complicated.

What You'll Learn

• How Stocked grew from £4K monthly revenue to a £15M annualised run rate, and why direct-to-consumer was so important in proving the proposition before retail.
• What Dragons' Den actually delivered commercially, including 60% month-on-month growth, long-term social proof and interest from major retailers.
• Why manufacturing in-house became a competitive advantage, despite initially being something the founders had hoped to outsource.
• How product focus enables more innovation, with over 65 unique SKUs developed while keeping production centred on chef-made, sauce-based meals.
• What Sam and Charlie have learned about scaling together, from sharing ownership and responsibility to building a team that allows them to move beyond day-to-day production.

Key Topics Discussed

• Creating a new category within frozen ready meals
• Growing from £4,000 monthly revenue to a £15 million annualised run rate
• The role of DTC in consumer education and product development
• Dragons' Den, social proof and retail credibility
• Launching into Ocado, Waitrose and Sainsbury's
• Why around 90% of the business was still DTC at the time of recording
• Building a manufacturing facility from scratch
• Using operational complexity to create a competitive moat
• Keeping the manufacturing model focused while expanding the range
• Restaurant, chef and food creator collaborations
• Why consumers value control as well as convenience
• The economics of flexible portions and different eating occasions
• Scaling the team without losing operational discipline
• The realities of building a business with a childhood friend
• Why a 50/50 co-founder partnership has worked for Sam and Charlie
• What the Brand Growth Heroes programme taught them about messaging and consumer awareness

Links:

Website: https://stockedfood.com/?srsltid=AU7gw4Uj6rrYMb0tAqZtRTi6oed5mIi3lx0sLIBwb3mbxcQuyzK_pmP5
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/stockedfood?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&xtok=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

Did you get  value from this episode?
As founders, you know how important Rate of Sale is. For you, it's units sold on shelf or from your website. 
For us, it's episode downloads, follows, and even comments and shares.
Want to share some love or thanks back this way? Then double-check that you've clicked FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE - it makes a REAL difference to our business.

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Find out more about the programmes and courses Fiona runs here (https://www.brandgrowthheroes.com/mini-mba-2026)

Join the NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

*** HUGE Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor — Joelson, the BEST commercial law firm for Founders of CPG brands ***

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them at JamJar Investments today!

Joelson is offering a FREE LEGAL CONSULTATION to all BGH listeners (https://joelsonlaw.com/contact/bookings)- we highly recommend you take them up on it!

Credits

Thanks to our Producer & Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com, to Kimberely and Charlie, to Nats and all the BGH team.

Grubby -  the award-winning plant-based meal kits and ready meals delivered to your door -  went from a £23M valuation and rapid growth TO around 140 VC rejections, losses of more than £1m in a year and a point where the founder says the business was probably only weeks away from “game over.”

BUT... 

if you need some inspiration from someone who has been through this and successfully turned things around then you're going to love this convo with founder Martin Holden-White - an unusually open conversation about what it REALLY takes to turn around a scaling D2C consumer brand. 

Today, the picture looks very different! Grubby is heading towards roughly £6m revenue, growing around 25%, has recorded approximately six profitable months this year and is close to achieving its first break-even year. 

Martin shares what had to change to get there: the down round, cost cutting, greater financial transparency, bringing in stronger financial leadership, acquiring manufacturing and recipe IP from Allplants, launching ready meals and becoming far more disciplined about how growth is funded.  

What You’ll Learn

• How Grubby went from a £23m valuation to being weeks away from failure
• Why Martin now looks back at that £23m valuation as “completely bonkers”
• What changed to take Grubby from £1m+ annual losses towards break-even while still growing
• How acquiring Allplants’ manufacturing and recipe IP accelerated Grubby’s move into ready meals
• Why Martin wishes he had hired a Financial Director much earlier

Key Topics Discussed

• Grubby’s journey towards approximately £6m revenue
• The danger of valuations becoming detached from business fundamentals
• Raising around £6m and navigating an extreme down round
• What happened after roughly 140 VC rejections
• Cutting technology and marketing spend to change the economics
• How existing investors helped save the business
• Founder dilution and protecting crowdfunding investors
• The physical impact of founder stress
• Why Grubby shares its P&L internally every month
• Building a more financially disciplined growth model
• Acquiring manufacturing and recipe IP from Allplants
• Ready meals growing to around 20% of the business
• £50-ish customer acquisition costs and reducing reliance on paid social
• Using AI for menu optimisation, forecasting and waste reduction
• Partnerships as a route to product discovery and growth
• Why Martin wishes he’d hired an FD sooner  Pasted text

Community and review request

If you learn anything from this chat, PLEASE share the love by sharing this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate or anyone trying to work out how to build a sharper, more focused growth model.
AND! 

Don't forget to FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

IF you leave a review with your name and I can find you on LinkedIn, I promise to write to say thanks!

*** Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor — Joelson, the commercial law firm ***

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm with 10000s of hours experience supporting the founders of scaling consumer brands, just like you.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and they still work with them at JamJar Investments today!

Joelson is offering a FREE LEGAL CONSULTATION to all BGH listeners (https://joelsonlaw.com/contact/bookings/ We HIGHLY recommend you take them up on it, you'll learn a LOT. (Don't forget to let them know you booked becauase you listened to Brand Growth Heroes)

********

Follow Brand Growth Heroes to learn more from fab founders scaling Challenger Brands:

Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/brandgrowthheroes)
LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/brand-growth-heroes/?viewAsMember=true)
Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@brandgrowthheroes)

Find out more about the programmes and courses Fiona runs here (https://www.brandgrowthheroes.com/mini-mba-2026)

Join the NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours. https://mailchi.mp/fionafitzconsulting.com/building-ai-native-challenger-cpg-brands

Credits

Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com and the entire BGH team. 

Most pet brands sell function. Denzel’s Dog Treats built its challenger brand around something very different: Happiness!!

 In this conversation, I speak with founders James and Nathan about how they spotted an emotional gap in the pet category and used brand strategy, packaging, product format and occasion-based innovation to turn dog treats into something much bigger than a functional purchase.
And the commercial results are what make this such an interesting story for founders scaling consumer brands. A Valentine’s activation delivered around 15–17x the rate of sale of a normal promotion, with more than 60% of shoppers buying it having not previously bought from pet. Their advent calendar has become their bestselling SKU despite only being available for part of the year. We get into how seasonal innovation moved from “marketing stunt” to revenue channel, why they designed for grocery, hospitality and online from day one, and how becoming obsessive about the brand experience helped Denzel’s create genuinely incremental growth.

Use code BGH25 for 25% off Denzel's NEW Advent Calendars from https://www.denzels.co.uk/products/advent-calendar

Details below *

*Redeemable from https://www.denzels.co.uk/products/advent-calendar only
25% off Advent Calendar
Applies to one-time purchases
No minimum purchase requirement
One use per customer
Can’t combine with other discounts
Early bird discount, active from 15 Sept to 22 Sept (23:59)

What You’ll Learn

• How James and Nathan identified an emotional white space in a category dominated by functional positioning.
• Why Denzel’s spent roughly 30–50% of its initial £25,000 startup loan on brand, design and packaging.
• How Valentine’s treats generated around 15–17x normal promotional rate of sale and attracted shoppers who had never previously bought from pet.
• Why seasonal NPD has evolved into an acquisition funnel that can ultimately drive shoppers into the core Denzel’s range.
• How to design products and formats around new channels and occasions rather than simply competing for space within your existing category.

Key Topics Discussed

• Building a pet brand around the “happiness exchange” between dogs and their owners
• Borrowing inspiration from consumer brands such as BEAR rather than the existing pet category
• Using Denzel himself as the central brand character
• Starting the business with a £25,000 loan
• Investing disproportionately in packaging and brand from day one
• Designing dog treats to work in grocery, cafés, pubs and online
• Creating selection boxes, Valentine’s treats, Easter products, birthday products and advent calendars
• Bringing a Tesco Valentine’s idea from conversation to delivery in only a few months
• Driving incremental category shoppers rather than simply stealing share
• Selling more than 30,000 advent calendars through Denzel’s own website during an early launch
• Becoming a bestseller on Amazon at Christmas
• Building specific hospitality products including peanut butter brownie, banana bread and pistachio cheesecake treats
• Outselling a chocolate Florentine in Caffè Nero
• The operational pain behind seasonal forecasting and manufacturing
• Turning seasonal innovation into a repeatable retail growth model
• Building the UK blueprint before selectively expanding into Europe
• Why packaging has to do more of the selling in crowded grocery categories
• Targeting what Denzel’s calls “Gen Zennial pet parents”

Useful links
https://www.instagram.com/thedenzelstory/?hl=en
https://www.denzels.co.uk/collections/shop-our-treats?srsltid=AfmBOorqeOYT4jb5u60GQa-AtYmjaba8MHZRynjaGkfn1vmkOy_DcN5A

Community and review request
Did you get a nugget of value from this chat?
If so, PLEASE share your thanks by hitting FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

AND by sharing this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate who loves business podcasts - or anyone trying to work out how to build a sharper, more focused growth model±

Join our community
Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/brandgrowthheroes)
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/brand-growth-heroes/
Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@brandgrowthheroes)

Fiona Fitz runs lots of great programmes, courses and coaching sessions. Find out more here or contact her directly on Linkedin to find out about booking one of her advisory hours.
https://www.brandgrowthheroes.com/mini-mba-2026
https://www.linkedin.com/in/fionafitz/

Are you a founder leaning in to the value that AI can unlock for your consumer branded business?
Then join Fiona's NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

Sponsor
*** Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor — Joelson, the commercial law firm ***
If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.
But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.
That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.
Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them at JamJar Investments today!

Joelson is offering a FREE LEGAL CONSULTATION to all BGH listeners ([email protected] or https://joelsonlaw.com/contact/) - we highly recommend you take them up on it!

Credits
Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com

Many of you founders working with niche ingredients out there might have struggled with this question:
How do you build a new category when consumers don’t yet understand the ingredient, retailers don’t know where to place it, and nobody is walking into stores asking for it?
 
In this episode of Brand Growth Heroes, I speak with Andrew Hunt, co-founder and CEO of Aduna Superfoods, about what category creation around niche ingredients really looks like for CPG founders. We talk about how he has built a business that is approaching £5M in annual revenue by bringing ingredients like baobab and moringa to the UK, to creating demand through education, sampling and relentless market development - until these ingredients are on the brink of becoming mainstream.

What I found particularly interesting is how Aduna has evolved as the market around it has changed. The business started out highly ingredient-led and impact-led, but eventually hit a commercial ceiling. Around 2022, Andrew and the team shifted towards clearer consumer needs such as gut health and everyday wellness, while keeping the quality of the ingredients and their sourcing at the heart of the brand. Now, as wholefood supplements, gut health, UPF-free products and higher-quality functional ingredients all move further into the mainstream, Aduna is increasingly well positioned for what Andrew calls the next generation of superfoods.

What You’ll Learn

• How Aduna created demand for ingredients consumers had never heard of
• Why getting a retail listing means very little if shoppers don’t understand what your product is for
• How intensive sampling helped take baobab from almost no rate of sale to a best-selling superfood
• Why Aduna moved from ingredient-first communication towards clearer consumer need states
• What founders building new categories can learn about timing, market education and knowing when the consumer is finally ready

Key Topics Discussed

• Building a new category around unfamiliar ingredients
• Introducing baobab and moringa to the UK market
• Why Whole Foods initially rejected Aduna because “nobody comes in asking for baobab”
• Creating demand before there is established consumer awareness
• The role of sampling in category building
• Going from around 10 units sold in three months to becoming a best-selling superfood in Whole Foods and Planet Organic
• Using early retail success to unlock Holland & Barrett
• Why product education alone can become a commercial constraint
• Aduna’s strategic shift towards consumer needs such as gut health and radiance
• Protecting brand integrity while becoming more commercially focused
• The rise of wholefood powders and supplements
• Why ingredient quality matters as consumers become more knowledgeable
• Aduna’s “Superfood 2.0” thinking around bioactive compounds
• High-flavanol cacao and the difference between commodity ingredients and higher-quality functional ingredients
• Building a proprietary supply chain in Ghana and Burkina Faso
• Working with more than 100 women’s cooperatives
• Agroforestry, tree planting and community infrastructure
• The relationship between Aduna’s branded consumer business and its ingredient supply business
• Amazon as a major growth channel
• Amazon UK growing around 50–60% year on year
• The scale of the Amazon US opportunity
• Aduna’s ambition to grow towards £15 million over the next four years
• Building long-term sustainable growth rather than chasing scale at the expense of quality

Useful links

https://www.instagram.com/adunasuperfoods/?hl=en

20% Discount code for Brand Growth Heroes Fans:
Use BGH20% at checkout at the Aduna store 

Like this episode?
PLEASE share the love by sharing this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate who loves brilliant non-alcoholic drinks, or anyone trying to work out how to build a sharper, more focused growth model.

Don't forget to FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

Join our community
Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/brandgrowthheroes)
LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/brand-growth-heroes/?viewAsMember=true)
Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@brandgrowthheroes)

Find out more about the programmes and courses Fiona runs here (https://www.brandgrowthheroes.com/mini-mba-2026)

Join the NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

*** Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor — Joelson, the commercial law firm ***

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them at JamJar Investments today!

Joelson is offering a FREE LEGAL CONSULTATION to all BGH listeners - just request it here - we highly recommend you take them up on it!

Credits

Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com and the entire BGH team.

In this episode, Fiona Fitz chats with Richard Peake, Managing Director of Merchant Gourmet and one of the rare non-founder guests to grace our show. When Richard entered the role, Merchant Gourmet was a £15 million business. Fast forward four years, and the company has doubled its revenue to £30 million. 

Bold innovations, a revamped product range, and strategic market expansion have powered this incredible growth. Our conversation delves into the power of innovation and the importance of staying ahead of consumer trends. Richard shares invaluable lessons in new product development (NPD). One particularly fascinating theme we covered was servant leadership—how Richard and his team drive Merchant Gourmet’s growth by empowering their people and focusing on purpose.

Additionally, we explore how export markets present an exciting new frontier for brands looking to scale. It was also refreshing to hear Richard admit that even seasoned professionals can find brand positioning a challenge. So, if you’ve ever struggled with getting it just right, you’re in good company!

Enjoy the episode, and as always, let us know your thoughts!

=============================================================

 Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor - Joelson, the commercial law firm
=============================================================

If you're a founder, you already know how much of your energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with your consumers. 

But don’t forget that scaling a CPG business also comes with a maze of legal complexities that can make or break your business journey. From contracts, term sheets and regulatory compliance to protecting your brand's intellectual property as you expand, it's essential to get it right.

And that starts with the right legal partner. 

So we're thrilled to introduce Joelson, a leading commercial law firm that specialises in guiding the founders of scaling CPG brands, as Brand Growth Heroes' sponsor.

With long term relationships with clients like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, Joelson is also famous for advising the innocent founders in their landmark sale to Coca-Cola! As a female team, we are especially impressed by Joelson's commitment to championing female founders in CPG.

Not many law firms are also BCorps, nor do they specialise in helping founders navigate the legal challenges of scaling without stifling the creativity and momentum that got you here in the first place...so thanks Joelson - we’re delighted to have you on board.

If you'd like to get in touch to find out more, why don't you drop them a line on [email protected]!

==============================================

If this episode inspires you to think about new ways to drive business growth, don't forget to click FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE on your favourite podcast app and leave a review

You won’t want to miss the next episode, in which Fiona Fitz talks with another successful founder of a challenger brand who shares more valuable insights into driving growth. Plus, your small gesture will be truly appreciated.

Please don't hesitate to join our Brand Growth Heroes community to stay updated with captivating stories and learnings from your beloved brands on their path to success!

Follow us on our Brand Growth Heroes socials: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube.

Thanks to our Sound Engineer, Gyp Buggane, Ballagroove.com and podcast producer/content creator, Kathryn Watts, Social kews
ZnmPvZOnCDIffjwMVXXI

How should founders value an early-stage consumer brand, negotiate with investors and raise capital without giving away more of the company than they intended? 

In this second part of my conversation with Phil Hails-Smith, Managing Partner at Joelson, we move from founder equity into investment, valuation and the legal foundations required to scale a CPG brand.

Phil explains why private-company valuation is an art rather than a science, how SEIS and EIS can support early fundraising, and why an ambitious valuation can create painful dilution if the business later misses its plan. We also discuss responsible AI policies, investor due diligence, change-of-control clauses and why owning every element of your intellectual property can determine whether an eventual sale completes.

What You’ll Learn

• How SEIS and EIS can help early-stage founders attract investment.
• What investors consider when valuing a pre-revenue or early-revenue consumer brand.
• Why raising at too high a valuation can cost founders more equity later.
• What a scaling company should include in its AI policy.
• How contracts and intellectual-property ownership affect an eventual exit.

Key Topics Discussed

• Moving from founder equity into external investment
• SEIS and EIS tax incentives
• Raising an initial seed round
• Valuing pre-revenue and early-revenue consumer businesses
• Revenue multiples and future growth potential
• Why valuation is an art rather than a science
• Balancing company valuation against founder dilution
• The dangers of raising at an unsustainable valuation
• Down rounds and the effect on founder ownership
• Changes in investor appetite for consumer and CPG brands
• Why defensible physical products may appeal to investors
• Responsible company use of AI
• Protecting confidential and personal information
• Controlling which AI tools employees can use
• Preparing for private equity or strategic acquisition
• Reviewing customer and supplier contracts
• Change-of-control provisions
• Making sure the company owns its brand assets
• The Innocent logo dispute and the importance of intellectual property
• Why unresolved legal issues can delay or jeopardise a sale

Useful links

https://joelsonlaw.com/

Like this episode?
PLEASE share the love by sharing this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate who loves brilliant non-alcoholic drinks, or anyone trying to work out how to build a sharper, more focused growth model.

Don't forget to FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

Join our community
Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/brandgrowthheroes)
LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/brand-growth-heroes/?viewAsMember=true)
Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@brandgrowthheroes)

Find out more about the programmes and courses Fiona runs here (https://www.brandgrowthheroes.com/mini-mba-2026)

Join the NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

*** Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor — Joelson, the commercial law firm ***

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them at JamJar Investments today!

Joelson is offering a FREE LEGAL CONSULTATION to all BGH listeners (https://joelsonlaw.com/contact/) - we highly recommend you take them up on it!

Credits

Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com and the entire Brand Growth Heroes team.

How should co-founders divide equity - and what happens to those shares if one person leaves?

In Part 1 of my conversation with Phil Hails-Smith, Managing Partner at Joelson,  we unpack the ownership decisions that founders building consumer and CPG brands need to make long before an investment round or exit. (This conversation was soo jam-packed with value that we had to split it in to two!)

Joelson B Corp is the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands. The're the law firm that advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola (and still work with them at JamJar Investments today, which tells you something...). They also work with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and are always present at every industry event, chatting to everyone, with smiling faces and ready to help.

In this episode, Phil shares practical benchmarks rather than vague principles: why a 50:50 co-founder split is relatively unusual, when 60:40 or 70:30 may be more appropriate, how vesting can prevent dead equity, and why both founders may need to be subject to the same provisions.

We also explore all the questions you might have around advisor equity, employee option pools, EMI options and the hidden dilution founders can absorb when investors negotiate on a fully diluted basis.

What You’ll Learn

• How to decide between a 50:50, 60:40 or 70:30 co-founder split.
• Why founder shares may need to vest over three or four years.
• What “dead equity” means and why future investors dislike it.
• How much equity an advisor or instrumental early employee might receive.
• How employee option pools can dilute the founding team during a fundraise.

Key Topics Discussed

• Assessing each founder’s original idea, commitment and financial risk
• Why equal equity is not always the fairest structure
• Planning for illness, parental leave or a founder leaving the company
• Good-leaver and bad-leaver provisions
• Founder vesting schedules
• Preventing dead equity
• Why vesting should generally be balanced between co-founders
• Using AI to create co-founder agreements
• Why AI cannot identify questions founders do not know to ask
• The risk of US legal assumptions appearing in UK agreements
• Typical advisor equity of approximately 1% to 2.5%
• Why 5% or 7.5% may be excessive for an advisor
• Founder control at 75%, 50% and 30% ownership
• Creating a 15% to 20% employee option pool
• Understanding fully diluted valuations
• Who absorbs option-pool dilution during an investment round
• EMI options and tax-efficient employee incentives
• Giving meaningful equity to instrumental early employees

Useful links
https://joelsonlaw.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/joelson-law/

Like this episode?
PLEASE share the love by sharing it with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate who loves brilliant non-alcoholic drinks, or anyone trying to work out how to build a sharper, more focused growth model.
Don't forget to FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.
Join our community
Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/brandgrowthheroes)
LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/brand-growth-heroes/?viewAsMember=true)
Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/brandgrowthheroes)
Find out more about the programmes and courses Fiona runs here (https://www.brandgrowthheroes.com/mini-mba-2026)

Join the NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

*** Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor  - Joelson, the commercial law firm ***

Scaling CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property - that's why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.
Joelson is offering a FREE LEGAL CONSULTATION to all BGH listeners (mailto:[email protected]) - we highly recommend you take them up on it!
Credits
Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com and the entire BGH team

Tampons in an Ice Cream Tub

In this episode of Brand Growth Heroes, I’m joined by Tara Chandra and Susan Allen, co-founders of Here We Flo, the organic, sustainable period care brand turning one of the most shame-coded categories in consumer brands into something loud, funny, feminist and brilliantly visible on shelf. We talk about how two friends from LSE spotted a gap in women’s intimate products, started with a period care idea in a Hackney flatshare, and built a challenger brand now stocked across major retailers including Boots, Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Asda, Superdrug and Holland & Barrett.

Here We Flo shows us the power of brand strategy to create value when the category ITSELF is broken. Tara and Susan didn’t just create organic cotton tampons, pads and liners; they questioned why period care was hidden, clinical and functional when other parts of consumer life had already moved towards better materials, better design and better conversations. We cover packaging as a growth lever, why their ice cream tub became a “trolley magnet”, how they think about rate of sale rather than just chasing distribution, and why their mission now stretches across cycle care, bladder care and sexual wellness.

What You’ll Learn

•  Why Here We Flo used packaging as their first “billboard” before they could afford media. 
•  How starting in independent Hackney stores helped them build product market fit. 
•  Why brand tone of voice matters so much in categories shaped by shame and stigma. 
•  How they think about growing rate of sale with existing retail partners. 
•  Why product reliability is non-negotiable in period care and bladder care. 

Key Topics Discussed

•  Building a feminist challenger brand 
•  Organic and sustainable period care 
•  Packaging as a shelf strategy 
•  Launching in independent retailers 
•  Breaking into WHSmith Travel, Boots and Tesco 
•  Making taboo categories emotionally accessible 
•  Period care, bladder care and sexual wellness 
•  Growing through rate of sale, not just distribution 
•  Education on shelf and in-store communication 
•  Sports partnerships, stigma and period confidence 
•  Building a team of 31 women 
•  Scaling towards 50–100% growth ambitions 

Like this episode?

 PLEASE share the love by sharing this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate who loves brilliant non-alcoholic drinks, or anyone trying to work out how to build a sharper, more focused growth model.

Don't forget to FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

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Find out more about the programmes and courses Fiona runs here (https://www.brandgrowthheroes.com/mini-mba-2026)

AND 

Do you want to lean in to unlock value from AI? We have a whatsapp group -the  NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours. Do you want to join? 

*** A massive thanks thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor -  Joelson, the commercial law firm ***

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them at JamJar Investments today!

Joelson is offering a FREE LEGAL CONSULTATION to all BGH listeners (mailto:[email protected]) - we highly recommend you take them up on it!

CREDITS

Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com and all the rest of the Brand Growth Heroes team.

We don't often hear about Challenger brands that are PROFITABLE...So let's do it!

*** Find out more about the NEW Brand Growth Heroes September Sprint 4 week programme just launched June 2026 - applications are open through June and July***

In this fab interview, I chat with Helena Hills, co-founder of TrueStart Coffee, about how she and co-founder Simon have taken a once-niche healthy coffee idea and turned it into a fast-growing challenger brand now on a £12m revenue run rate, profitably. So for those of you who are wondering if it's possible, here's some BRILLIANT insights, advice and experience!

What I loved about this conversation is Helena's clarity around this decision, her conviction. And that TrueStart didn’t suddenly appear from nowhere. It spent years doing the hard, unglamorous work: testing the proposition, building a community at sports events, learning where the brand had real pull, and being incredibly choosy about what to invest in before stepping into scale-up mode.

We talk about the contradiction at the heart of their growth: this is a coffee brand that didn’t lead with coffee culture, but with energy.
Helena explains why TrueStart tests for quality and purity markers (I honestly didn't know this was important), why caffeine consistency matters (nor this, but it makes complete sense to me now!), how COVID became a light-switch moment for the brand, and why their Series A fundraise with Jam Jar felt like a full-circle moment after first naming them as a dream investor back in 2015. 

For founders building consumer brands, this is a brilliant conversation about patience, timing, culture, focus and what it really means to scale without building on sand. 

What You’ll Learn

•  Why TrueStart built its early community through sports and fitness events. 
•  How a niche proposition became more mainstream as health, ethics and quality became more important to consumers. 
•  Why profitable growth became a deliberate strategic choice. 
•  How Helena and Simon divide leadership between outward energy and internal process. 
•  Why timing matters in innovation, especially with the launch of Coffee Concentrate. 

Key Topics Discussed

•  Series A investment from Jam Jar 
•  Building a profitable challenger brand 
•  Healthy coffee and caffeine consistency 
•  Word-of-mouth growth at events 
•  Moving from startup to scale-up 
•  Coffee Concentrate and iced coffee at home 
•  Founder energy, ADHD and complementary co-founder roles 
•  Culture, hiring and decision-making guardrails 
•  AI, process and avoiding founder bottlenecks 

Find out more about TrueStart
Follow TrueStart on Instagram

Like this episode?
PLEASE share the love by sharing this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate who loves brilliant non-alcoholic drinks, or anyone trying to work out how to build a sharper, more focused growth model.

Don't forget to FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

Join the Brand Growth Heroes tribe
Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/brandgrowthheroes)
LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/brand-growth-heroes/?viewAsMember=true)
Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@brandgrowthheroes)

Join the NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

*** Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor - Joelson, the commercial law firm ***

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them at JamJar Investments today!

Joelson is offering a free legal consultation to all Brand Growth Heroes listeners - just send an email to [email protected] - we highly recommend you take them up on it, they are honestly brilliant.

CREDITS

Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com and to the entire BGH team.

Most challenger founders assume international expansion should happen in neat, logical steps. New Zealand → Australia → UK → US. But Lisa's view was different, and that's why it's so interesting:

In fact, conventional FMCG wisdom tells us to prove your business in nearby markets first. But founder Lisa King of Free AF Drinks ignored that advice!  After building a 40% share brand in New Zealand, Lisa decided to skip Australia entirely and went straight after the most competitive drinks market in the world...the USA!

Why? 

--> If the ambition was always to build a globally valuable business, she asked herself why spend years proving the model somewhere that wasn't ultimately where the biggest opportunity sat?

In this brilliant conversation with Kiwi female founder Lisa, you'll hear how today AF Drinks is stocked in more than 4,500 stores across the US, including Target, Walmart, Whole Foods and Kroger, and just HOW they're doing it. 

We discuss why she made they made the decision they did, how Pernod Ricard Ventures invested before the US launch, what it really takes to build a beverage brand in America, why alcohol-free RTD cocktails are outperforming expectations, and the lessons founders should understand before attempting to scale internationally.

Lisa takes us through a masterclass in the realities of the beverage market in the United States; Why alcohol-free RTD cocktails are growing faster than many expected and finally, how she has approached fundraising, equity and scaling internationally!

Key Topics Discussed

•  Alcohol-free drinks category growth 
•  Building challenger brands internationally 
•  International expansion & export to USA  
•  Listings with Target, Walmart, Whole Foods and Kroger 
•  US grocery retail
•  Walmart and Target listings 
•  Fundraising and investor strategy 
•  Pernod Ricard Ventures investment 
•  Beverage category economics 
•  Product innovation, IP & technology 
•  Ready-to-drink cocktails 
•  Scaling consumer brands globally 
•  Founder leadership 
•  Building brands from New Zealand 

USEFUL LINKS

AF Drinks Website
AF Drinks Instagram

Like this episode?

PLEASE share the love by sharing this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate who loves brilliant non-alcoholic drinks, or anyone trying to work out how to build a consumer packaged goods business.

Don't forget to FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

Follow us

Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/brandgrowthheroes)

LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/brand-growth-heroes/?viewAsMember=true)

Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@brandgrowthheroes)

Find out more about the programmes and courses Fiona runs here (https://www.brandgrowthheroes.com/mini-mba-2026)

Join the NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

*** Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor - Joelson, the commercial law firm ***

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why I'm proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them at JamJar Investments today!

Joelson is offering a FREE LEGAL CONSULTATION to all BGH listeners (mailto:[email protected]) - I honestly recommend you take them up on it, they're brilliant.

CREDITS

Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com 

In this episode of Brand Growth Heroes, I’m joined by founder Bethan Higson and Alice Gallsworthy of Mother Root. Get this: Mother Root is already the UK’s number one non-alcoholic spirit brand in terms of revenue driven per product. Whoah.

So what's the deal? This ginger-based non-alcoholic aperitif is different to most playing in food and beverage, as it only has one core SKU, but an incredibly powerful DTC growth engine. Even though it's the UK's No1 non-alc spirit, it still only has around 6–7% distribution -  talk about headroom for growth!

As you might imagine, Bethan and Alice are incredibly clear on the choices that created their growth. We talk about why they stopped trying to do everything, how they went all-in on DTC, how customer interviews and jobs-to-be-done thinking shaped their marketing, and why the product itself delivers something so many non-alcoholic drinks miss: flavour, ritual, heat, length and a real adult drinking moment. We also get into team building, finding the right second-in-command, launching into the US, and why operations has to scale at the same rate as marketing if you don’t want the business to break.

What You’ll Learn

•  How Mother Root grew from around £1.5M to £15–16M run rate. 
•  Why focus on one channel helped build a repeatable and scalable growth model. 
•  How jobs-to-be-done customer interviews shaped Mother Root’s digital marketing. 
•  Why the non-alcoholic drinks consumer is not necessarily the Gen Z sober-curious stereotype. 
•  How Bethan and Alice think about hiring, operations, US expansion and scaling without breaking the business. 
• Why AI is part of EVERY part of the working day at Mother Root

Key Topics Discussed

•  Mother Root’s growth from early-stage brand to £15–16M run rate 
•  Building a challenger brand with one core SKU 
•  The evening drink ritual and the role of non-alcoholic drinks 
•  Ginger, apple cider vinegar, slow burn and flavour architecture 
•  Choosing where to play and walking away from distracting channels 
•  Building a DTC growth engine 
•  Paid social, customer interviews and jobs-to-be-done insight 
•  Word of mouth and repeat purchase 
•  Nielsen performance and retail headroom 
•  Hiring a brilliant number two 
•  Scaling operations alongside marketing 
•  Launching Mother Root in the US 
•  Why the non-alcoholic category is not just about Gen Z 

Useful Links

https://motherroot.com/
https://www.instagram.com/motherroot/

Like this episode? 

PLEASE share the love by sharing this episode with another founder building a challenger brand, a colleague or a mate who loves brilliant non-alcoholic drinks, or anyone trying to work out how to build a sharper, more focused growth model. 
Don't forget to FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to Brand Growth Heroes on your favourite podcast app, and even LEAVE A REVIEW - both of these actions make a MASSIVE difference to our mission to help more founders just like you.

Join our community on Instagram, LinkedIn and Youtube, and find out more about the programmes and courses Fiona runs, as well as the NextGen CPG WhatsApp group for founders leaning in to the value that a leadership approach to engaging with AI can unlock for businesses like yours.

Follow Brand Growth Heroes on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube.

*****Thanks to Brand Growth Heroes’ podcast sponsor  - Joelson, the commercial law firm *****

If you're a founder, you already know how much energy goes into building the perfect product, creating standout branding and connecting with consumers.

But scaling a CPG business also brings legal complexities that can make or break your growth journey - from contracts and regulatory compliance to protecting your intellectual property.

That’s why we’re proud to partner with Joelson, the leading commercial law firm specialising in helping founders of scaling consumer brands.

Joelson works with brands like Little Moons, Trip, Eat Natural, Bear Graze and Pulsin, and advised the innocent founders on their landmark sale to Coca-Cola - and still work with them at JamJar Investments today!

To learn more contact [email protected] - in fact, Joelson is offering Brand Growth Heroes listeners a FREE Legal consultation - we highly recommend you take them up on this! 

Credits

Thanks to our Sound Engineer Gyp Buggane at Ballagroove.com and all the Brand Growth Heroes team.