From public scandals to private betrayals that never make the news, experiencing the failure of a leader is both heartbreaking and disorienting. When someone leads a church community or is esteemed as a hero, the fallout of their failure is felt even more. 

Lisa Fields joins Jackie and Preston for an honest conversation about leadership betrayal. They discuss what healthy admiration looks like, how to navigate the grief of failed leadership without becoming cynical, and why restoration doesn't always mean a return to the platform.

Scripture References:

• John 21

• 1 John 3

• Galatians 6:1

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Check out “When Heroes Fall: Healing from the Aftermath of Sin” – https://www.amazon.com/When-Heroes-Fall-Healing-Aftermath/dp/0593603109 

Follow Lisa on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/lisavfields/ 

https://lisavfields.com/ 

Lisa’s last conversation on With The Perrys, “How to Wrestle With God” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwTKOItm3Wo

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Earlier this month, Jackie found herself at the center of a Threads post that generated a whole lot of conversation. It got her and Preston thinking about the opposition we face as Christians because of a worldview that is confusing to unbelievers.

NOTE: For most of us, the persecution we face is social in nature – that’s different from persecution others face around the world when they risk their lives professing Christ.

As Christians, we’re not supposed to defend ourselves. We’re supposed to preach the gospel and leverage opposition as an opportunity to point others to Jesus. Jackie and Preston discuss a helpful framework for approaching unbelievers, why it’s important to lead with compassion, and the reason why both prayer and patience are required for those conversations.

Scripture References:

• 2 Corinthians 4:4-6

• 1 Peter 3:15-16

• Nehemiah 4:17–18

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A stronghold is an untruth that has lodged itself in our brains and keeps out the knowledge of God. Shame can be a stronghold if we are believing something that is literally not the truth – about God, ourselves, or others. So really, shame and the gospel can’t co-exist peacefully. You could even say that shame is anti-gospel. 

Jackie and Preston discuss how the gospel – the good news that we are forgiven – exposes lies and replaces them with the truth we find in God’s word. We’ve got to meditate on the gospel, read the Bible more than we think about ourselves, and be aware of the way we are helping to remove (or unconsciously adding to) shame in other people’s lives. 

Scripture References:

• Genesis 3:7

• Hebrews 12:2

• "The Soul of Shame: Retelling the Stories We Believe About Ourselves" by Curt Thompson: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0830844333/
• Video from Dan Allender, "The Fall" – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNLFNIfHqLE

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We all go through seasons where we have little desire for God. We don’t really want to pray, and reading our Bible doesn’t sound exciting.
Being honest about not wanting God isn’t unbelief, but it may uncover areas of our life where we’re believing a lie or not dealing with sin. There are so many things in life that compete for our affections, but God will meet us in our insufficiency and invites us to go deeper in our faith.

Preston mentions John’s Piper’s book, “Desiring God” - https://www.amazon.com/Desiring-God-Meditations-Christian-Hedonist/dp/1433595974

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When you hyper-focus on what you think you lack, you aren’t practicing gratitude, and you can become discontent. When you covet what someone else has, you will start to believe that God is withholding something good from you. That means our discontentment is not about our life circumstances but about the state of our hearts. 

Melissa Kruger joins the Perrys to talk about a book Jackie stumbled upon when looking for resources on the topic of covetousness – one that Melissa wrote back in 2012 called “The Envy of Eve: Finding Contentment in a Covetous World.”

Whatever you’re wanting, it will not ultimately be soul-satisfying. We spend our time chasing the contentment we want when it’s available to us simply by abiding with Jesus. 

Connect with Melissa:

• https://www.instagram.com/melissabryankruger 

• 
  https://melissabkruger.com/

Check out Melissa's book, "The Envy of Eve: Finding Contentment in a Covetous World" – https://www.amazon.com/Envy-Eve-Finding-Contentment-Covetous/dp/1845507754

Jackie and Melissa's Ephesians study with Jasmine Holmes: https://www.lifeway.com/en/product/ephesians-bible-study-book-with-video-access-P005843174?

Scripture References

• Genesis 3

• Philippians 4:11-13

• 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

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Y’all love a Q&A episode, so the Perrys asked Instagram followers to submit questions to help guide the topics of conversation. Jackie kicks things off with a “storytime” moment about an unforgettable (and not in a great way) evangelism experience, and then they dive into the questions.

How do you deal with insecurity as a man?

Should you only date someone who is spiritually at the same pace as you?

When we get to Heaven, will we recognize our loved ones?

How can you be delivered from sexual immorality?

Why doesn’t Jackie talk more about her prophetic dreams?

Scripture References

• 1 Corinthians 6:12-14

• James 1:12-15

• 1 Corinthians 14:23-25

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The Perrys are joined by Melissa and Mike Kruger to discuss their new book “The Good News Family Devotional: 52 Weeks Through the Gospel of Mark.” Mark is fast-paced and story-centric, which makes it an ideal book to study alongside your kids.

The Kruegers and Perrys discuss navigating discipleship with kids in different stages, helping children move beyond surface-level observation questions, and seeing family devotionals as just one part of a broader culture of discipleship in the home. Melissa and Mike encourage parents – especially those without a model from their own upbringing – to pursue family discipleship imperfectly but diligently.

Check out “The Good News Family Devotional” – https://goodnewsfamilydevotional.com/; https://us.amazon.com/Good-News-Family-Devotional-Through-ebook/dp/B0GX2YCWT4 

Connect with the Kruegers:

• https://melissabkruger.com/ 

• https://www.instagram.com/melissabryankruger/ 

• https://goodnewsfamilydevotional.com/

Scripture References

• Deuteronomy 6:4-9

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When we’re “born again” as Christ followers, we’re babies, and “growing up” is a choice. But emotions, pride, and an endless buffet of online voices can keep new believers spiritually stuck.

In this episode, Jackie and Preston discuss how spiritual maturity isn’t automatic, nor is it a checklist. We become mature by pursuing humility, having discernment about false doctrine, and establishing deep roots in a local church community. Ultimately, we have to know our Bible more than anything and come to terms with our complete dependence on God. 

Tim Keller’s sermon, “Principles of Christian Growth”

• Part 1 – https://podcast.gospelinlife.com/e/principles-of-christian-growth-part-1/ 

• Part 2 – https://podcast.gospelinlife.com/e/principles-of-christian-growth/ 

Scripture References

• Ephesians 4:11-15

• 1 Corinthians 3:1-4

• Psalm 139:23-24

• John 15:1-2

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The second half of the Perrys’ conversation with Matt Chandler is a deeper discussion of the Beatitudes of Matthew 5.

For example, the Bible says, “Blessed are those who mourn,” but what are we to mourn, and how do we mourn well? Matt explains that we mourn our own sin, and we grieve the broken world around us. Comfort is found in the hard work of mourning, and the consequence of not mourning is distance from Jesus.

Beyond mourning, Matt and the Perrys also explore meekness, a thirst for righteousness, mercy, peacemaking, and persecution.

Scripture References

• Matthew 5:3-10

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After more than two decades leading a church – and through his own faith journey, too – Pastor Matt Chandler says confidently that, “Come what may, God is at work.” 

In this conversation on sanctification, Matt, Jackie and Preston explore the Beatitudes of Matthew 5, not as a checklist of spiritual goals but a portrait of a person Jesus is creating as we mature in Christ. The Christian life isn’t about wins and losses; it’s about staying tethered to Jesus through the highs and lows. Keep saying yes to Him, and He’ll use it all to form you.

This is part 1 of a 2-part conversation.

Check out Matt Chandler’s new book, “Becoming Like Jesus: The Everyday Journey to Living a Life of Holiness” (releasing this week, April 28): https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Like-Jesus-Everyday-Holiness/dp/1400344301 

Tim Keller sermon Jackie mentions: http://podcast.gospelinlife.com/e/principles-of-christian-growth-part-1/

Scripture References

• Matthew 5:3-12

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Trip Lee is an author, teacher, and hip-hop artist who recently released new worship music titled “For Your Glory.” He joins Jackie and Preston for a conversation about worship music, rap music, and the importance of music in our lives as followers of Jesus. 

Music plays a major role in spiritual formation – singing truth helps us remember and believe what is true about God. Worship is not just the fluff before a sermon; it’s a response to who God is. Ultimately, worship is about making much of Jesus, and it’s something we’re called to participate in together.

Connect with Trip Lee:

• https://www.instagram.com/triplee/ 

• https://builttobrag.com/ 

Listen to For Your Glory, the new worship project from BRAG WORSHIP & Trip Lee:

• https://link.reachrecords.com/fyg1 

Scripture References

• Ephesians 5:19

• Psalm 77:1-3, 13-14, 16

• Psalm 103:1

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