Constitutional lawyer and former US Solicitor Ted Olson recently died at the age of 84. Olson represented the state of New Jersey in its efforts to overturn a federal ban on sports gambling. Those efforts succeeded, as we hear in our episode "Welcome to the Garden State." But Olson and Michael Lewis talked about many other aspects of his vivid legal career. We're offering their full conversation today.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Michael Lewis heads to Las Vegas to explore the way sports betting used to work, up until the day it was rapidly legalized by states around the country. We meet the betting sharps who figured out what others couldn’t and set the odds for other bookies. That is, up until everyone seemed to have a casino on their smartphone. But the new online casino differs from the old ones in an important way: It doesn’t take all bets.

For further reading: 

Edward Thorp’s Beat the Dealer

“Cigars, Booze, Money: How a Lobbying Blitz Made Sports Betting Ubiquitous” by 

Eric Lipton and Kenneth P. Vogel

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

As the US election nears, Michael Lewis sits down with Nate Silver, co-host of the Pushkin podcast Risky Business (along with the writer, psychologist and professional poker player Maria Konnikova). They talk about why people bet on elections, the problem with sports gamblers in the United States, and Silver’s new book, On the Edge: The Art of Risking Everything. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Is there a difference between fandom and religion? In Pittsburgh, it can be hard to tell. Fans of the city’s football team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, seem to have a cradle-to-grave devotion, complete with a golden relic, the “terrible towel.” Michael Lewis talks with sociologist Marci Cottingham, a native of Steeler Nation, about her work studying the religious overtones of fandom, and why the positive experiences of sports fans should get more scholarly attention.

For further reading: Marci Cottingham’s Practical Feelings: Emotions as Resources in a Dynamic Social World

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It may seem like sports gambling got legalized overnight in the US. But it was in fact a winding road to get there. Michael Lewis speaks with legal historian and University of Chicago professor Alison L. LaCroix about all the factors that led to the Supreme Court overturning, in 2018, a federal law called the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act. And they explore why, in some eras of US history, the Court tends to lean towards “states rights” arguments.

For further reading: Alison LaCroix’s The Interbellum Constitution: Union, Commerce, and Slavery in the Age of Federalisms

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How did we get from fantasy sports to legalized sports betting? The path is convoluted, but most of it winds through New Jersey. Michael Lewis speaks with former governor Chris Christie, among other Jersey politicians, as well as lobbyists for the gaming industry. Plus we hear from Ted Olson, the lawyer who kept bringing the Garden State’s constitutional challenge until it finally reached the Supreme Court — and hit a jackpot.

For further reading:

Albert Chen’s Billion Dollar Fantasy

Murphy v. NCAA

ESPN timeline of how sports betting was legalized

SCOTUS Blog: The Tenth Amendment, Anti-Commandeering and Sports Betting

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bill Bradley was already famous in college as the epitome of certain American virtues: integrity, honesty, and athleticism. As an NBA star, he took those virtues to the big leagues. As a US Senator, he had a chance to codify some of them into law and prevent the rise of sports betting. But at the same time, others in Bradley's state were making huge money on this illicit form of gambling.

For further reading:

John McPhee’s A Sense of Where You Are

American Bettors Voice, non-profit advocacy for sports bettors co-founded by Gadoon “Spanky” Kryollos.

Bill Bradley’s Values of the Game

David Hill's The Vapors: Southern Family, the New York Mob, and the Rise and Fall of Hot Springs, America's Forgotten Capital of Vice

Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act of 1992.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/102nd-congress/senate-bill/474

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sports fans experience incredible highs and lows, and spend loads of money on a product over which they have no control. But for a long time, no one bothered to study the minds or impulses of fans. Michael Lewis finds out how that's changing as writers and academics learn more about the powerful psychology of fandom. Just in time for technology to exploit fandom more than ever.

For further reading: 

Eric Simons’ book The Secret Lives of Sports Fans

Research by Murray State University psychology professor Daniel Wann on fandom: https://murraystate.academia.edu/DanielWann

The Henry Tajfel Experiments

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Against the Rules is going to Vegas (by way of New Jersey!). Host Michael Lewis bets high and low to find out how Americans, and their state governments, got addicted to a new form of legalized gambling. This season, we’ll meet bookies, lobbyists, lawyers and professional sharps. All in their own ways trying to figure out why fans might hitch their life savings to their favorite team’s performance. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sam Bankman-Fried was sentenced to 25 years in prison after being convicted of fraud and conspiracy. Michael Lewis and Lidia Jean Kott were there in court. They talk about what happened with Judging Sam’s legal expert, Rebecca Mermelstein, a former federal prosecutor and partner at O'Melveny and Myers.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

While Sam Bankman-Fried has been on trial, the cryptocurrency exchange he founded, FTX, has been going through bankruptcy proceedings. Jonathan Lipson, a professor at Temple Law School, tells Michael Lewis that he believes the proceedings have highlighted problems with the US bankruptcy system. 

Jonathan Lipson’s research paper “FTX’d: Conflicting Public and Private Interests in Chapter 11” is forthcoming in the Stanford Law Review. You can read a draft here. 

You can listen to our previous interview about the FTX bankruptcy with Jonathan’s co-author, David Skeel, here. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.