This is an episode all about the hard stuff. Politics. Disagreement on tour. Tour sites where the truth itself is in debate. Confronting places with complicated, dark histories.
Most of the advice out there is: avoid this stuff at all costs. People just want to have fun, they're on vacation. Guides should stick to the script and make sure they don't say something that upsets the guests. I'm not here as a tour guide to shove my opinions down everyone's throats. Can't we all just get along? Can't we just keep the discourse civil?
Our guest this week, Mike Fishback, is a middle-school humanities educator and curriculum designer who thinks this instinct is exactly the problem. "Civil discourse" isn't about keeping things polite — it's about strategies for engaging with and managing disagreement and difficulty in learning situations, like a tour. Mike learned through experience that it's unwise to sit back, cross your fingers, and hope you don't upset a guest. That there are powerful ways to lean into difficult topics that make the whole experience more meaningful — intentionally creating dialogue through artful questioning and participatory techniques. And he has the educational frameworks and two decades of lived experience to back every word of it up.
Mike also happens to have spent years as a client of mine — I was the tour guide for his group of middle schoolers on trips to New York and DC, and I saw firsthand how he engaged his students with really meaty, difficult topics in a way that didn't shut them down but fired them up.
The lessons here aren't for kids. They're for everyone. And if you've ever told yourself that your job is just to deliver the facts and keep things light, this conversation might be the most useful hour you spend all week.
More takeaways and show notes on tourpreneur.com
What if the most powerful segment in travel has been hiding in plain sight for decades?
Tourpreneur's Mitch Bach talks with Carolyn Ray, CEO of Journey Woman, about her transformation from corporate executive to full-time traveler and advocate for the 50+ woman traveler—a demographic that represents half the world's population yet remains largely invisible to the travel industry.
After a life-changing trip to Kenya at age 50, Carolyn sold everything and reinvented herself, eventually acquiring Journey Woman in 2019 and transforming it from a 1990s-era newsletter into a multifaceted platform that includes research, advocacy, a women's travel directory, and speakers bureau.
Through her groundbreaking "Invisible No More" research, Carolyn became the first to quantify this market segment, revealing that operators who only market destinations are "doing half the job" because 50+ women travelers are looking for purposeful, intentional experiences beyond simple safety assurances.
She challenges the industry's obsession paid media and influencer marketing, and urges women entrepreneurs to reject outdated rules, trust their intuition, and put themselves unapologetically in the spotlight—embodying her company's core value to "make your own rules."
This is a story of growth through creativity, experimentation, and using technology to stay lean.
Carlo Pandian (LinkedIn) is the founder of Slow Travel Italia. Four years ago he started with a single wine tasting in Verona, and today runs 160 experiences across 12 Italian cities, serving 15,000 guests a year with a very small team.
In this episode, he talks to TP host Mitch Bach about exactly how he did it: experimenting with neglected time slots (like 6pm) that competitors ignore, launching five tours at once instead of one to multiply his chances of finding a niche, using Airtable and automations to eliminate manual booking assignments and personalize communication at scale, and treating OTAs as a launchpad rather than a long-term home. Carlo shares how he identifies gaps in crowded markets by studying what's missing—not just in Italy but in places like Japan—and why he pulled out of Milan when the math didn't work. He explains his "requirements manifesto" for vetting partners, how he coaches food producers on storytelling for international audiences, and why the biggest trend he's seeing is travelers willing to spend half a day outside the city for a single product done deeply—visiting the olive grove, watching mozzarella pulled from boiling water, understanding one thing fully rather than tasting nine things superficially.
As always, more info and takeaways on tourpreneur.com.
In this episode Mitch Bach sits down with Marinel de Jesus, a former human rights lawyer turned tour operator.
She is filled with questions about the adventure tour industry:
Why do porters on the famous, touristy Inca Trail in Peru carry crushing loads for little pay and even less dignity? Why is it so difficult to find women adventure guides in so many parts of the world? What do indigenous communities actually want from tourism—and why doesn't anyone bother to ask them?
These are just some of the uncomfortable questions and themes she's carried with her as she's lived and trekked around the world. Originally from the Philippines, she became a human rights lawyer in Washington D.C., spending 15 years prosecuting child protection and mental health cases. Then her mother passed away—and she never went back to the office. But Marinel didn't just start a tour company. She moved into indigenous communities. She lived with Quechua porters in Peru and learned the dark truths behind the picture-perfect Inca Trail. She spent nearly 300 days in Mongolia during Covid, co-creating a nomad camp that started with tea and a blank piece of paper—not a business plan. She walked 100 days across Nepal with Mingmar, a female guide she searched for over a year and a half to find, proving that women belong on the Great Himalaya Trail.
This discussion challenges everything we assume about adventure tourism—the colonial narratives baked into our itineraries, the voices we never hear, the scripts we impose on communities who know how to welcome guests far better than we do. She makes the case for showing up with no agenda, listening before designing, and building something that matters more than scale.
Marinel's organizations:
More show notes and resources on tourpreneur.com
This short episode was recorded live at GetYourGuide's Unlocked conference in September 2025.
When you meet Arturo Ardao Rivera, the first thing you feel is his energy. He doesn't come off as an engineer, which was his profession until he discovered a joy for tour guiding and running a tour business. Originally from Madrid, Arturo found his true passion when he created Rainbow Tours Stockholm. It has grown from a solo operation to employing 26 guides.
His story is one of rejecting some of his engineering tendencies (choosing feelings over numbers!) and leaning into strategies that appear unorthodox but have worked well for him.
You'll discover:
Connect with Arturo on LinkedIn, and visit Rainbow Tours Stockholm!
It's 2026... welcome to a new year of Tourpreneur weekly travel business podcasts!
And we're starting the year off in a slightly different vein.
This episode is a must-listen to help you set a new and hopefully inspirational, deeper tone for your year ahead as a business owner or guide.
Our opening guest is the inimitable Dr. Anu Taranath, a professor, author, and facilitator. She's truly one of a kind. She gave the opening keynote at last year's Tourpreneur conference, and blew everyone away.
So Tourpreneur's Mitch Bach was excited to sit down with Anu to challenge Tourpreneurs to think new thoughts about what they're doing as business owners. Yes, our job is to bring joy and entertainment and storytelling to our guests. Yes, our job as business owners is to show up for the daily grind of practical, nuts and bolts business. That's the spine of many of our lives out there.
This episode will ask you to go deeper.
If you rest on only the level of entertainment, and 'customer service' and professionalism, you're missing an opportunity for greater meaning, both in your business and your guests' lives.
Anu asks you to think of your role as creating not only staged performances, but also spaces and containers to "rehumanize humans" and "normalize the normal"—that is, the kinds of human questions about culture and difference that are normal reactions to a travel experience that stretches people.
It's an invitation to take off the armor — yours and your guests, and create something more meaningful together, something deeply human.
As always, more show notes and links on tourpreneur.com.
Pete Syme interviews Andrea Lamparini from WeRoad, a hybrid tech company and tour operator that's rewriting the rules of group travel for millennials and Gen Z. The conversation reveals how WeRoad has achieved exceptional growth by building a community-first model where strangers become friends through small group experiences, using travel coordinators instead of traditional guides, operating as a curated marketplace where top coordinators design their own trips, and leveraging technology to scale operations with one-third of their 200-person team dedicated to tech. Andrea shares how they maintain quality with 4,000+ casual travel coordinators who each lead just one trip per year, why they leave 30-40% of each itinerary unstructured for group decision-making, how their supply model works across 68-70 DMCs globally, and why they're expanding into B2B channels including travel agencies, employee benefit programs, and corporate partnerships that already represent 17-18% of revenue. The discussion covers their VC backing (rare for a tour operator), plans for US expansion in 2026, the power of their We Meet app hosting 50,000 community members at events this year, and Andrea's key lesson learned: curating their marketplace offering earlier would have prevented the conversion drop caused by overwhelming choice.
Top Ten Takeaways
1. Travel Coordinators Work Alongside Local Guides
WeRoad uses travel coordinators who are the same age as travelers, depart from the same home country, and focus on facilitating group dynamics rather than delivering local expertise. Local guides are still included for museums, parks, and other sites where specialized knowledge is needed. Travel coordinators create WhatsApp groups one month before departure, balance introverted and extroverted personalities, and coordinate the 30-40% of unstructured time built into every itinerary. WeRoad has 4,000+ coordinators working casual contracts with a commitment of just one trip per year.
2. Quality at Scale Without Full-Time Staff
Coordinators go through online applications, webinars, group interviews, and a final boot camp weekend with 100 candidates. Most visit destinations for the first time, but rigorous hiring and training ensure consistency. Local DMC partners provide backup if logistics fail. Top performers can become "producers" who design and scout their own trips.
3. Groups Decide 30-40% of Their Itinerary in Real Time
Accommodations, transport, and core experiences are fixed, but dinners, half-days, and optional activities are decided by the group during the trip based on their interests and budget. Travel coordinators provide options and handle bookings with local partners, personalizing the experience to match group energy.
4. A Curated Marketplace Scales the Portfolio 5x
WeRoad's internal team creates 200 itineraries while travel producers create 1,000+ more. This model scaled their catalog 5x without adding internal headcount. All producers use standardized supply agreements ensuring every DMC meets centralized requirements for safety, insurance, compliance, and capacity.
5. Supply Quality Is Non-Negotiable
WeRoad works with 68-70 DMCs globally, visits partner sites, and monitors quality constantly. The rule is simple: mess up once or twice and you're out. Because each group makes different choices during unstructured time, suppliers must be flexible enough to support varied activities in every destination.
6. Community Extends Beyond Travel Through We Meet
The We Meet app hosts 10,000+ events across Europe where 50,000 people connected this year. Travel coordinators organize pottery classes, running groups, hiking, pub quizzes, and weekend trips in their home cities. This keeps travelers engaged between their one or two annual trips and drives repeat bookings.
7. One-Third of Staff Are Tech People
WeRoad built their entire platform internally: booking websites, supply platforms for internal operators and external producers, and the We Meet app. They use AI for customer service, machine learning for demand forecasting that gives suppliers 12-month projections, and sentiment analysis to understand feedback at scale.
8. Growth Comes From Digital, Community, and B2B Channels
WeRoad started with digital acquisition through social media and paid channels, building massive accounts that visualize the beauty of trips and community. They recently launched a global partnership program targeting travel agencies, employee benefit platforms, corporate retreats, and associations. This B2B channel already represents 17-18% of total volume.
9. VCs Invest in Tour Operators That Look Like Tech Platforms
WeRoad is unusually VC-backed for a tour operator because investors see them as a tech platform sustaining a brand mission. Strong unit economics in mature markets mean they can self-finance growth, but external investment accelerates new market expansion. The focus remains on sustainable growth, not burning money short-term.
10. Overwhelming Choice Kills Conversion
Andrea's biggest lesson: curate your marketplace offering early. When WeRoad first opened to travel producers, the abundance of trips—including duplicates—confused customers and decreased conversion. They now prioritize how offerings are visualized and presented, not just experience quality. US expansion is planned for 2026 after strengthening European markets, followed by Asia and Middle East. Japan is currently their most popular destination.
Christy Hunter started Photo Walk Nashville seven years ago after discovering Airbnb Experiences, combining her photography skills with local knowledge to create tours that capture memories for travelers. What began as open photo shoots quickly evolved as she learned to segment products for different customer types—bachelorette parties, couples, solo travelers, dog owners, and corporate groups.
The conversation covers her product development journey, including early mistakes like mixing incompatible customer types and learning when to say no. Christy emphasizes the importance of local partnerships, sharing examples like teaming up with cosmetic brand Winky Lux for a home base and an apartment complex for rooftop access.
On marketing, Christy shares her successful TikTok strategy: having team member Gina speak directly to camera as if she were a past guest ("You have to do this one thing in Nashville..."), which drove multiple viral videos and direct bookings. She also discusses influencer marketing from both sides—as a tour operator and as an influencer herself—stressing the importance of clear communication, doing research on engagement rates, and not asking for specific deliverables.
Christy expanded to Charleston this year when a team member relocated, keeping the same operational model rather than franchising. She's also building Go To Nashville, an OTA reselling partner experiences through Tour Base's affiliate system. Looking ahead, she's focused on increasing capacity utilization rather than geographic expansion, and launching a consulting business to help other photographers and retailers enter the tourism space.
Ryan Connolly went from finance analyst to glacier guide to co-founder of Hidden Iceland. In this episode, he shares the numbers behind their most pivotal business decision: cutting small group tours that represented 50% of their departures but only 10% of revenue.
That shift to exclusively premium and luxury private tours helped the company grow by 5% while improving quality and profitability. Ryan explains how relationship marketing drives 70% of their bookings directly without OTAs, why they lead with education when working with travel advisors, and why PR outperforms paid advertising when selling luxury experiences.
Plus, the story of how a three-year journey across 40 countries led him to Iceland, where he met his wife on a glacier tour and built a business with two partners.
1. Cut unprofitable segments ruthlessly
Small group tours accounted for 50% of Hidden Iceland's departures but only 10% of revenue. After eliminating that segment, they grew 5% by focusing resources on premium and luxury private tours where margins are higher.
2. Partner with competitors instead of viewing them as threats
When customers can't afford Hidden Iceland's luxury pricing, Ryan personally introduces them to partner companies that serve the budget segment. This maintains relationships and positions them as helpful experts rather than pushy salespeople.
3. PR drives better ROI than paid ads for high ticket sales
Over 450 articles in publications like Condé Nast, Forbes, and CNN have driven 70% direct bookings. For luxury trips ($20,000+), earned media builds trust better than Facebook or Google ads.
4. Lead with personal story in first customer contact
Ryan's initial email starts: "Hello, my name is Ryan. I'm originally Scottish. I've lived in Iceland since 2016. I originally trained as a glacier guide..." This builds immediate trust and differentiates from transactional competitors.
5. Educate travel advisors. Don't just sell to them
Hidden Iceland runs webinars teaching agents about Iceland's seasons, distances, and what each time of year offers. Not sales pitches. The education first approach builds meaningful advisor relationships that generate 30% of bookings.
6. Vet activity partners on safety and environmental standards
Before partnering with snowmobile companies, helicopter tours, or other providers, Hidden Iceland shares their own safety and environmental policies first, then asks partners to reciprocate. This creates collaboration, not just transactions.
7. Train guides to be themselves, not follow scripts
Instead of teaching guides what to say at each stop, Hidden Iceland tells them: "Be yourself in the most authentic way possible and create genuine connections." This leads to reviews that praise the guide more than the destination.
8. Choose conferences strategically. Avoid the herd
Ryan skips luxury travel conferences if more than 2 or 3 other Iceland companies will attend. Less competition means easier differentiation and more meaningful conversations with travel advisors.
9. Keep the sales process low tech and high touch
Despite having a CRM (LEMACS), Hidden Iceland puts key itinerary details in the body of emails and offers phone calls early. For luxury clients, human connection trumps slick automation.
10. Build the business with partners you trust implicitly
Ryan emphasizes: "Don't set up a company with anyone you don't trust inherently and that you believe will communicate effectively during the hardest times." Through pandemics and volcanic eruptions, Hidden Iceland's three owners have never shouted at each other because they chose partnership carefully.
Kevin and Sylvia launched iRide Arusha in July 2024, offering motorcycle tours and rentals in Tanzania. Within 18 months they scaled across four East African cities through a franchise model called iRide Africa, with partners operating in Rwanda, Nairobi, and Mombasa. The franchise structure allows riders to cross borders and book multi-country tours.
The episode covers operational realities: importing equipment across borders, navigating tourism regulations, managing multi-country payment processing, and running rentals and guided tours as two distinct businesses with different customer profiles and sales cycles. Kevin and Sylvia share how they find customers through motorcycle clubs, price for premium buyers, and use immediate response times as a competitive advantage.
TOP 10 TAKEAWAYS
1. Test adjacent niches when your market is saturated
Rather than launch another safari company in an oversaturated market, Kevin and Sylvia identified motorcycle touring as an underserved adventure niche in East Africa. Consider what adjacent experiences your destination supports that competitors aren't offering.
2. Franchise models can scale faster than going solo
Within 18 months, iRide expanded across four East African cities through franchise partnerships. Partners share mechanics, bikes, marketing resources, and customer referrals. This creates a network effect where riders can start in one country and end in another, adding value no single operator could deliver alone.
3. Target communities, not just individuals
Kevin reaches out directly to motorcycle clubs in major US cities. One Chicago BMW Riders club is bringing eight people in February. Booking one club creates the revenue of eight individual customers with a fraction of the acquisition cost. Find the clubs, associations, or communities that match your experience type.
4. Customer service is a competitive advantage in developing markets
Their immediate response times and willingness to hop on Zoom calls builds trust fast, especially for customers who've never been to Africa.
5. Platform diversification requires testing, not guessing
iRide is on Get Your Guide, Viator, Klook, WeTravel, and fielding Facebook messages, but hasn't found the magic channel yet. Test widely, track what converts, double down there.
6. Price for the experience you're actually delivering, not your self-doubt
Kevin admits they severely underpriced at launch. Beginner business owners often can't see their own value clearly. If you're offering wow moments and authentic connections, charge accordingly.
7. Guided vs. rental requires different marketing and operations
Rental customers (experienced, self-sufficient, quick decision makers) need less hand-holding than guided tour customers (more questions, longer planning cycles, higher price points). These are functionally two different businesses with different messaging, pricing, and customer profiles.
8. Gross revenue and net income are very different
Vehicle maintenance, cross-border parts sourcing, and insurance eat into margins constantly. Build cash reserves and expect hidden costs, especially in asset-heavy businesses.
9. Local language fluency unlocks competitive advantages
Sylvia's Swahili fluency helped navigate Interpol holds on imported bikes, handle tourism police complaints from competitors, and build long-term supplier relationships. Language access isn't just customer-facing—it's operational power.
10. Differentiation isn't just what you do, it's how guests connect
Guests consistently cite the vastness of the landscape and local interactions (like lunch with Sylvia's 88-year-old farming grandmother) as their standout memories. Design for connection points your format uniquely enables.
This conversation with Jeff Gayduk, publisher of Premier Travel Media, reveals an industry at a transformative inflection point where specialized group travel is experiencing unprecedented growth despite predictions of its demise. Speaking from his unique vantage point overseeing multiple travel industry verticals, Gayduk identifies 2026 as a watershed year driven by three major events—the World Cup, Route 66's centennial, and America's 250th anniversary—while highlighting the explosive growth in niche markets from pickleball tourism to multi-generational family trips. The discussion underscores a fundamental shift in how travel experiences are designed and marketed, moving away from cookie-cutter itineraries toward highly specialized, passion-driven offerings that leverage everything from sports tournaments to career readiness programs, with successful operators focusing on authentic relationships and deep expertise rather than trying to compete with legacy brands on traditional offerings.
The group travel market has undergone a complete transformation since COVID, moving from a defensive position of proving relevance to an offensive surge of innovation and growth. Special interest groups, family bonding experiences, and educational opportunities are creating unique travel products unavailable to individual consumers. The pandemic's forced separation actually accelerated demand for meaningful group experiences rather than diminishing it.
The World Cup across 16 North American cities will bring 6.5 million visitors with 40% from overseas, creating massive opportunities for tour operators in hub cities. Route 66's anniversary and America's 250th celebration will generate patriotic tourism and historical programming throughout the year. These events create both standalone opportunities and chances for creative tour operators to build complementary experiences around the main attractions.
Youth sports tournaments drive consistent weekend travel with families spending whatever necessary for their children's athletic participation, creating massive but underserved tourism segments. Adult amateur sports, particularly pickleball, are seeing explosive growth with facilities featuring 32-64 courts becoming destinations themselves. The opportunity lies not in the games themselves but in creating experiences for the downtime between matches, serving families who are tourists without tour infrastructure.
Career readiness programs are emerging as students face AI-driven uncertainty about future employment, with manufacturers and trade schools becoming unexpected tourism partners. Small, specialized STEM groups and performance ensembles are replacing massive band trips, creating opportunities for highly targeted educational experiences. College visit tours have become sophisticated multi-campus experiences as the stakes for education choices continue rising.
"The riches are in the niches" has proven true as operators who focus on specific passions outperform those trying to compete on standard itineraries. Technology now enables operators to reach highly specific audiences globally rather than being limited to local marketing through yellow pages and park districts. The tighter the niche, the easier it becomes to market and the more likely customers are to pay premium prices for expertise.
Older Americans with disposable income are funding entire family trips, from luxury yacht cruises to Disney vacations, often including extended family and friends. These trips require sophisticated customization that big operators can't provide, creating opportunities for bespoke tour designers. The spending on these milestone celebration trips is "mind-boggling" according to industry data, with grandparents willing to invest heavily in family bonding experiences.
Destination Marketing Organizations spend hundreds of thousands on marketing but need tour operators to provide the actual bookable products visitors seek. DMOs possess mountains of data and local insights that operators often don't know to request, creating missed opportunities for partnership. The relationship should be symbiotic: DMOs drive inspiration and awareness while operators deliver the experiences that fulfill that inspiration.
Large traditional operators face the challenge of serving aging loyal customers while attracting younger demographics with different travel styles and expectations. Successful adaptation includes smaller group sizes, slower itineraries with longer stays, and the integration of river cruising as a bridge product. The human relationship element that made these companies successful remains their key differentiator even as they modernize their offerings.
The successful travel advisor model has shifted from selling airline tickets to becoming highly specialized experts in specific destinations, cruise lines, or travel styles. Good advisors serve as client advocates navigating an increasingly complex travel landscape, especially for multi-generational or special interest trips. The question remains whether there's a sufficient pipeline of new advisors entering the field to sustain this specialized, high-touch service model.
Modern travelers seek transformative experiences rather than destination checkboxes, with operators succeeding by creating unique access and authentic local connections. Events from Taylor Swift concerts to World Cup matches are becoming trip anchors, with some operators building entire experiences around events without even including tickets. The shift represents a fundamental change from "where are we going" to "what will we become through this experience."