In the second half of this interview, Keyes shares his thoughts on other serial killers like BTK, Ted Bundy, and The Green River Killer. Then he discusses his plans for the future, losing control, and how the facade of his life was moving further and further away from who he really was. He also goes into detail regarding the New York victim, the Curriers, breaking into homes, arsons, and fatherhood... and public art.

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
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In this interview, Keyes discusses publicity and strategy, the impacts of his crimes on his family, searching for remains, the NY victim, lies he's told about his time in Texas, and serial killers he's read about and studied.

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
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This is Keyes's first interview following his failed escape attempt from court. They discuss the Curriers, the NY victim, negotiating publicity, the boat, Washington jurisdictions, speculation, protecting his family, and more.

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Season finale.
TCB will be back in October.  

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With additional research by Michelle Tooker, Shana Wilensky, and Jordan Taylor.

Sources include:
• KARK.com
• 4029TV.com
• The Northwest Arkansas Democrat Gazette

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This episode was made possible by the following Patreon producers:
Amy Basil, Kendall C., Asch Fish, Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Pink, JenJ, Robin, Carol, H Beth Jones, Michelle, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, Sara Cee, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Virginia Williams, Carrie, Jeff, Jordan T, Bethany, David Begley, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Chris S, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Meaghan Daigle, Melissa Tracchia, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen Troccola, Trixie

To support the investigation, go to www.patreon.com/studiobothand

This episode included music by:
Whithe, Sero, LaBon, and Sergey Cheremisinov
With featured music by: Sigur Ros

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

The team returns to Texas to look at a case, which Jordan has been following for four years, that involves a suspicious death, an arson, and an abandoned house. And this case may just shed light on some of Keyes's odder travels and some new and unsettling information on the Azle bank robbery.

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Jordan Taylor. 
With editing and writing by Josh Hallmark. 
Additional research assistance by: Michelle Tooker.  

TROVA TRIP TO COSTA RICA:
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PATREON
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SOURCES
• Houston Police Department Casefile, Case #030249612
• FBI interview with Israel Keyes: 07/12/12
• Harris County Office of Forensic Sciences Report 12-0671
• Houston Fire Department Report 12-0680736
• HOUSTON, TX Weather History | Weather underground. (n.d.). https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/KHOU/date/2012-3-9
• Pinkerton, J. (2014, April 5). HPD sergeant fired, 7 other disciplined in murder case probe. Chon. Retrieved May 26, 2025, from https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/HPD-sergeant-fired-7-others-disciplined-in-5377253.php
• Pearson, L. (n.d.). Who came up with HPD’s “SL” code that suspended 264K cases? Panel identifies former assistant chief. https://abc13.com/amp/post/houston-police-suspended-cases-what-is-sl-code-lack-of-personnel-donald-mckinney/14822151/
• FBI interview with Israel Keyes: 07/10/2012
• James E. Lankford. (2011). Peak DB SPL of various Firearms (5 Miyara, F. (n.d.). A NOTE ON FIRECRACKER’S NOISE. https://www.fceia.unr.edu.ar/acustica/biblio/firecr1.htm
• In J Am Acad Audiology (Vol. 22, pp. 93–103). https://www.caohc.org/UserFiles/fileShot%20of%20Prevention%20extra%20handout.pdf
• Miyara, F. (n.d.). A NOTE ON FIRECRACKER’S NOISE. https://www.fceia.unr.edu.ar/acustica/biblio/firecr1.htm
• Azele Police Dept Case # 2012-961

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Asch Fish, Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Pink, JenJ, Robin, Carol, H Beth Jones, Michelle, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, David Begley, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Chris S, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen Trocola, Trixie, Melissa Tracchia.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

A case the team has been looking into for over four years, makes its podcast debut; where a crime in an Israel Keyes hotspot eerily matches a chapter from one of his favorite books.

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Michelle Tooker. 
Additional research, editing, and writing by Josh Hallmark. 
Research assistance by: Shana Wilensky and Jordan Taylor.  

PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

SPONSORS:

Factor: Get 50% off your first Factor box PLUS free breakfast for 1 year, by using code TCBS50OFF at factor.com/tcbs50off
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Uncommon Goods: Get 15% off at www.UncommonGoods.com/TCB
Cornbread Hemp: Get 30% off your first order by using promo code TCBS at www.cornbreadhemp.com/TCBS

SOURCES
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/unsolved-jeffrey-mitchell-murder-sacramento-17382062.php
https://www.facebook.com/share/1GyTUQpCYZ/
https://www.dailydemocrat.com/2006/10/29/link-between-van-deputy-explored/?clearUserState=true
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/crime/unsolved-california-wife-of-murdered-deputy-shares-her-hope-for-justice-and-how-she-keeps-jeffrey-mitchells-legacy-alive/103-9e1af8e8-984b-4c1a-b69f-ec7cc64b9e85
https://ohp.parks.ca.gov/listedresources/detail/575
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/238696800/jeffrey\_vaughn-mitchell
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article2581679.html
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/sacbee/name/allan-shubert-obituary?id=13658767
https://unresolved.me/deputy-jeffrey-mitchell
https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/sacramento-county-woman-vanished-2010-homicide-suspect-arrested/
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/sacbee/name/allan-shubert-obituary?id=13658767

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Asch Fish, Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Pink, JenJ, Robin, Carol, H Beth Jones, Michelle, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, David Begley, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Chris S, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen Trocola, Trixie.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Josh and the team discuss how Israel Keyes used infrastructure maps to scout, hide and/or bury his caches and victims. This may just be the key to solving his crimes.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
With additional research by Kathy Nation, Jordan Taylor, and Michelle Tooker.
This episode featured Kathy Nation, Jordan Taylor, Michelle Tooker, and Shana Wilensky.
 
PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

SPONSORS:

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Music by: Sonic Yard. 
Featured music by: The Foundry Field Recordings 

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Asch Fish, Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Dan del Rossi, Trista, Nichole, Pink, JenJ, Corey D, Robin, Carol, Michelle, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, David Begley, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Chris S, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen Trocola, Trixie.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

Josh and team dissect various information and semantics surrounding Keyes's male-female couple. They circle back to Eugene Hyatt and Kami Vollendroff, and then deep-dive the disappearance of a Spokane couple. Then new information from a friend of Keyes gives the team a new perspective not on just the male-female couple and the vicitm ruled accidental, but potentially all of Keyes's unknown victims. 

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With research by: Kathleen S. and Jordan Taylor
 
PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

RESOURCES

• NAMUS
• The Charley Project
• Pacificorps.com
• LowImpacthydro.org
• Damsafety.org
• The Washington state digital archives
• The Spokesman Review

SPONSORS:

• Uncommon Goods: Get 15% off at www.UncommonGoods.com/TCBS
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Music by: William Hellfire, Radical Face, Sergey Cheremisinov, Whithe, and Sero. 
Featured music by: Patrick Watson 

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Asch Fish, Becky C, Pink, JenJ, Corey D, Robin, Carol, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, Lauren Ferri, Emily Payne, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Megan Inman, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen, Justin Runion, Trixie.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

The FBI releases some surprising new information obtained from Keyes, including more maps. Josh begins connecting a handful of those maps to facts, theories, tips, and potential victims.

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With research by: Jordan Taylor, Michelle Tooker, and Kathleen S.

TROVA TRIP to ICELAND
Learn more and/or reserve your spot at https://trovatrip.com/trip/europe/iceland/iceland-with-josh-hallmark-jun-2026  
 
PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

RESOURCES
NAMUS
The Charley Project

SPONSORS:

• Uncommon Goods: Get 15% off at www.UncommonGoods.com/TCBS
• Cornbread Hemp: Get %30 off your first order by using promo code TCBS at www.cornbreadhemp.com/TCBS
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Music by: LaBon. 
Featured music by: Sarah Belkner

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Asch Fish, Becky C, Pink, JenJ, Corey D, Robin, Carol, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, Lauren Ferri, Emily Payne, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Megan Inman, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen, Justin Runion, Trixie.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

In light of new revelations about Keyes's childhood and time in Eastern Washington, we further explore his upbringing, religious history, and his family's beliefs; which all lead us back to that farmhouse in Hunters, Washington. And from there, we try to make sense of what happened on April 2, 2005.

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With research by: Jordan Taylor  
And additional research by: Michelle Tooker and Shana Wilensky.

TROVA TRIP to ICELAND
Learn more and/or reserve your spot at https://trovatrip.com/trip/europe/iceland/iceland-with-josh-hallmark-jun-2026  
 
PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  RESOURCES
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/1997/jun/17/cheyne-kehoe-turns-himself-in-brother-still-on/https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/influential-christian-identity-pastor-dies/https://www.splcenter.org/resources/extremist-files/christian-identity/https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/christian-identity-movementhttps://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/christian-identity-movement-analyzing-its-theologicalhttps://califias.blogspot.com/2014/10/art-bulla-and-church-of-jesus-christ.htmlhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy

SPONSORS:

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Music by: Radical Face, Itai Argaman, Sergey Cheremisinov, and Nocturne. 
Featured music by: Joan as Police Woman

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Asch Fish, Becky C, Pink, JenJ, Corey D, Robin, Carol, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, Lauren Ferri, Emily Payne, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Megan Inman, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen, Justin Runion, Trixie.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

A childhood friend of Israel's comes forward to discuss his time in Colville, Christian Identity, the Keyes family, Israel's early crimes, and more.

This episode was written, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 

TROVA TRIP to ICELAND
Learn more and/or reserve your spot at https://trovatrip.com/trip/europe/iceland/iceland-with-josh-hallmark-jun-2026  
 
PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

SPONSORS:

• Uncommon Goods: Get 15% off at www.UncommonGoods.com/TCBS
• Cornbread Hemp: Get %30 off your first order by using promo code TCBS at www.cornbreadhemp.com/TCBS
• BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month at www.BetterHelp.com/TCB
• Quince: Get free shipping at www.Quince.com/TCBS

Featured music by: Kate Dalton. 

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Kathleen Studer, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Asch Fish, Becky C, Pink, JenJ, Corey D, Robin, Carol, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Emily Payne, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Megan Inman, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen, Justin Runion, Trixie.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.