Go back in time and re-listen to this episode, to prepare you for the season 8 premiere on October 5.

We first covered Hunters, Washington back in season two. And while our reporting on it paused, our investigation into it did not. Jordan and an anonymous source have spent years digging into Hunters and the abandoned farmhouse there. And even as we thought there was nothing left to find, new information began pouring in. And continued pouring in as recording and post-production on this episode were happening.

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With research by: Jordan Taylor, Shana Wilensky, and Michelle Tooker.  
 
PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

Music by: Radical Face, Itai Argaman, Sergey Cheremisinov, and Nocturne. 

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Season 8 launches on October 5 and dives into Keyes's upbringing, life, and connections in Washington state and how they impacted and defined Keyes's crimes across the country. We look at new cases, follow-up on past cases, and get into the woods looking for caches and interviewing more people from Keyes's life. 

PATREON
www.patreon.com/studiobothand

TROVA TRIP to Slovenia
https://trovatrip.com/trip/europe/slovenia/slovenia-with-josh-hallmark-jun-2027

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Coveron: Coveron.com/TCB with code TCB for 20% off (for the first 100 users).
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns.  
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

In Retrospective 5, Josh discusses how a family loss created massive life changes during the creation of TCB season 2. And how the pandemic and Kelly Cochran led to some massive podcast changes, gambles, and fears.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Slovenia
https://trovatrip.com/trip/europe/slovenia/slovenia-with-josh-hallmark-jun-2027

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

PATREON
www.patreon.com/studiobothand

SPONSORS
• Coveron: Coveron.com/TCB with code TCB for 20% off (for the first 100 users).
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns.  
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

In this interview:
• The FBI discuss Keyes's competency and psych evals
• Keyes details the creation of his silencer
• Keyes discusses various accounts of stalking
• Keyes shares his grand plan and dreams of doing something big

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Slovenia
https://trovatrip.com/trip/europe/slovenia/slovenia-with-josh-hallmark-jun-2027

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Coveron: Coveron.com/TCB with code TCB for 20% off (for the first 100 users)
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns.  
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

In this interview:
• Keyes tells the FBI about a New York homicide
• Keyes details the Tupper Lake bank robbery
• Keyes talks about other active areas in New England
• The FBI finds out about the boat

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns.  
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

In this interview:
• The FBI detail their four part plan to negotiate their needs and Keyes's
• Keyes accidentally hints at several details surrounding his unknown crimes
• Keyes grapples with media attention
• Keyes starts to spill

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns.  
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

In this interview:
• The FBI goes over items seized from Spurr Lane and Constable
• Keyes's early years in Neah Bay
• Keyes's early crimes in Colville
• Keyes's various watercraft and how he used them in crimes
• Keyes's using friends as unwitting accomplices
• The Washington state caches
• Julie Harris
• and more

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off. 
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month.  
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.
  

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

In Retrospective 4, Josh discusses how massive life changes coalesced with the creation of the first season of TCB. How he isolated himself entirely to both heal and get into the head-spaces of the people he'd spent so much time researching and writing about. Plus, what went into creating the season one finale.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS.
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

In Retrospective 3, Josh discusses how 24 harrowing hours changed his life and the course of True Crime Bullsh**. He discusses how an incident re-shaped his vision for the first episode of the podcast, and his view on true crime and its darkness. Plus, the impact of that first episode on listeners, and the impact of those listeners on Josh.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Retrospective 2 takes us to the origin of the investigation; where Josh's interest in storytelling evolved into his obsession of needing to know everything. And it started in a surprising place: a bound book of correspondence between two teenage girls and their landlord. What started as comedic found writing, became a mystery that people could not let go. And as Josh made his way through it, while working on TCB, he learned about investigations and their repercussions.

This is parts one and two of The Karen & Ellen Letters, Josh's first full-fledged investigation.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

Cast:
Sara Stapleton as Karen
Sara Kitcher as Ellen
Jeff Powell as Mark
Matt Peelen as Rob

SPONSORS
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

To celebrate 10 years in podcasting, we're spending the summer going back in time and both highlighting key episodes and telling the stories behind them; you’ll get new behind-the-scenes information about what was happening in life, in various investigations, and in the world that impacted these important episodes and their podcasts. You’ll learn how Josh started podcasting, how he started investigating Israel Keyes, some hilarious and terrifying stories from the road, and some really vulnerable and personal stories.

We start our first retrospective at, duh, the beginning. Josh shares how both his podcasting journey and Keyes obsession began. He discusses his time in Seattle and on the Olympic Peninsula, how he ended up on the East Coast, his first deep-dive investigation (not Keyes) and how that led to his second (Keyes).

And this kicks off an early episode of his very first show, Our Americana, entitled Van Life. 

TROVA TRIP to The Galapagos Islands:
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.