The crew recently got back from a week long shoot in Vermont, and now that the dust has settled it's time to talk all about it! 

 

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Small Town Monsters was honored to be included in the 2025 Ohio Bigfoot Conference, and Mark, Seth and Heather finally found the time to sit down and talk all about it. A little behind the scenes, a little history, and a whole lot of laughs. 

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From the World Turtle to the Beast of Busco, join Seth, Heather and Aaron for a deep dive on all things giant turtles. 

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SHOW NOTES:

Monsteropolis - Turtle Town

NEWS - We got a DISTRIBUTOR for Lost Contact lined up. Hey! This means you kids get to see it soon, along with some other stuff (right? Am I remembering this right?) that’s not presently available (is this wrong?). 

 

(At time of air) - Ape Canyon is screening at the Kiggins Theatre in just a few days! (5/22) 

 

Heartland, Archives, Decoded, Appalachian, BTT all be going on. Finale for Paranormal Horizons! Head to Youtube. Go there now, you can do that while you listen. Hit that subscribe button. They’ll all call you Subscribe-o

 

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Monsteropolis: Turtle Town. A sub neighborhood of Monsteropolis, like Ape Street, Octopus Alley and Thunderbird Boulevard. Let’s do these the whole show instead of the show. Bigfoot Borough. Turtle Town is a quaint little (big) neighborhood. And it’s gotta be big, because it’s full of real big turtles. Not Ninja Turtle big, those guys were big but like size of a bus big, eat your house big, ride across the ocean on their backs if you forged an unbreakable bond with them by saving their home land from a dragon big, stuff like that. 

 

TURTLES are REPTILES. They live in the WATER, but they breathe AIR. They have SHELLS. What a WEIRD ANIMAL. 

 

If you think about it, turtles are almost like their own cryptid already. Not as weird as the Platypus but still pretty weird. I mean. Shells? Some of them live to be super old too, like 100 years or so. 

 

Intrinsic weirdness aside, there are a lot of legends and cryptid encounters associated with turtles. 

 

THE WORLD TURTLE - Present in a lot of mythologies. Basically the idea is that the WHOLE WORLD sits on top of the back of a giant turtle. Turtle world. Turtle Planet. 

 

The oldest version we know about seems to come from Hindu mythology. The god Vishnu appears in the avatar of a giant turtle named Kurma, which had a mountain on its back. 

 

It also popped up, seemingly independently in First Nations lore, such as the Iroquois and Lenape, who portray it as a giant sea turtle. 

 

It’s cool to think of ancient societies observing the world around them and going, “Oh yeah, all this is on a turtle.” If you think about how they would have observed turtles in the wild, you know, algae and stuff growing on their backs, they kind of look like little models of earth. 

 

Historians and scholars also talk about themes that would likely have been in play, such as longevity and continuation, which were important to some of the First Nations tribes and really have been important to human societies for most of history. People would have noticed that turtles lived a long time and also kind of represent security and strength. That’s cool. 

 

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/world-turtle-cosmic-discworld

 

THE BEAST OF BUSCO - A big old turtle legend from Indiana. Local to Churubusco, Whitley County, Indiana, also referred to by the nickname Turtle Town, which I did not know when I tentatively named this episode. According to one online source,

the nickname originally stems from ‘Little Turtle,’ the name of a sagamore (chief) of the Miami tribe, but it’s later become associated with the giant turtle sighting at Fulk Lake.

 

• First sighting is said to come from 1898 by a guy named Oscar Fulk who spotted it on a large lake on his property. Like, really large, 7 acres apparently. 
• FIFTY YEARS went by. Then in 1948, two men named Ora Blue (that’s a name right there) and Charley Wilson were fishing on the same lake, when they reported seeing a similar creature - just a huge, huge turtle, which they described as looking like a snapping turtle with huge spiky shell “the size of a dinner table,” and now all I can think about is Bowser from Mario Bros. 
• Gale Harris, who owned the property at the time of the second sighting, got really into the whole thing, and launched multiple expeditions to try and capture it, including one wherein he drained the 7 acre lake. They tried nets and damming streams and all kinds of stuff. They never found the turtle and it nearly bankrupted him. 
• The local media picked it up a few months after the Blue/Wilson encounter, and it became another Cryptozoological staple. Thrill seekers, monster hunters and now internet weirdos (like us!) became fascinated with the story, and it hangs around in the new millennium. 
• Turtle Brother is supposed to be around 500 pounds. Adult male alligator snapping turtles (the ones we know for sure exist) can hit over 200 pounds, so maybe Busco Boy was just a really really big turtle, but you gotta wonder how he got that big. By the same token, alligator snapping turtles aren’t supposed to live in Indiana, so if it were one of those, it would represent its own anomalous encounter on par with Phantom Big Cats and other out-of-place animals. Some natural historians don’t think they ever lived there at all, though specimens have been seen as close as the White River in Morgan County, as recently as 1991, but experts posit that this was likely an escaped or released domestic specimen based on its growth pattern. So, shrugging emoji. 

https://www.iflscience.com/the-beast-of-busco-the-mystery-of-indianas-500-pound-turtle-sightings-75278

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/could-citizens-of-this-indiana-town-have-seen-a-500-pound-turtle-180984659/

The Ogua - Another big old turtle guy but this one has two heads (sometimes)! Two head turtle, Turtle Two Head, Turtle Tim and The Two Headed Ogua, I don’t know, this would make a great kids movie though. A lot of cryptid stories would make good kids’ movies. 

• Anyway though, this guy shows up in Virginia and Pennsylvania and Ohioooooo, right near you guys. Aleghenny and Monongahela rivers apparently. 
• Did you, did you check for turtles? Turtle check? When you went outside today? Watch out for this guy because he’s-
• Twenty feet long! That’s longer than cars. 500 pounds. Does this seem too long? Like shouldn’t something that long weigh more? Unless he’s like a really slim cigar shaped turtle? I dunno, I’m not good at math, maybe somebody can figure out what a twenty foot long thing that’s also 500 pounds would look like and draw it. 
• Story goes that in 1745 (before the Revolution) a giant two headed turtle jumped out of the river and ate a 12 year old boy who was fishing. Which is kind of how alligators and predatory turtles hunt you know, like hiding right under the surface. Bummer. 
• There are supposed to be sightings “all over Marion county” according to online sources but specifics are spotty. Did you guys SEE the Ogua when you were children? Were you WARNED not to get EATEN by two headed turtles?

So could any of these guys actually exist? Maybe not the world turtle one unless we’re just gonna decide that that’s real. I like it so I’m good with it. 

• The biggest turtle ever known to exist was the Archelon Ischyros, a sea turtle that grew up to 15 feet long and was believed to weigh up to three tons. 
• See that’s what I was saying earlier - something 20 feet long would need to weigh more than 500 pounds.
• BUT an especially large Alligator Snapping turtle could, maybe, possibly, be MISTAKEN for weighing 500 pounds, or maybe actually weigh close to that much. There are people who are way taller than the average person so it probably happens with turtles.
• It could be a whole thing where there just were some really big turtles hanging out in these areas and witnesses mistook them for being 20 feet long. 
• What they’re doing in Indiana and Ohio though is another mystery. 
• Ultimately it’s not a question of whether turtles this size/near this size existed - it’s a question of whether or not one matching the anatomy of a snapping turtle could get this large, and if it could/did ever exist in some of these northern parts of the country, AND if they could still be hanging around in the modern day. We’re essentially talking about dinosaurs here - should the “turtle cryptids” be thought of the same way we think about Plesiosaurs and other “surviving dinosaur” stories? Is this just too many questions? 
• We’re also talking about behaviors really closely associated with gators/crocs (the ambush hunting) so maybe there were some stories about alligators that got mixed up and turned into stories about turtles, but that seems like a stupid guess now that I’m typing it out. And also alligators aren’t supposed to be in Ohio or Indiana either. 

SOME POP CULTURE REFERENCES - Plenty of giant turtles in Pop Culture. There’s that Gamera guy, and the smaller Toho kaiju Kameobas from the cult film Yog: Monster from Space (Kameobas also shows up in Godzilla: Tokyo SOS, 2004). There’s the giant turtle from Aladdin and King of Thieves, always liked that guy. The Pokemon Torterra is pretty clearly a take on the World Turtle idea (got trees and mountains on his back and in the Detective Pikachu movie he’s the size of a mountain). There’s this video game called Fortnite you may have heard of. Giant turtle in there as a part of the Oni/Ninja theme they did for season whatever it was - is that guy still around? I haven’t played in awhile. He was cool though you could hide in the trees on his back and find really crappy shotguns and then get killed by a much better player who already figured out that’s a bad strategy. 

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Thanks for listening everybody! Come to the Ape Canyon screening, listen to The Lore You Know, and maybe by the next episode we’ll figure out how to get Aaron out of here. You can (should!) subscribe to Small Town Monsters on Youtube, and if you liked this show, give it a rating or review! If you didn’t like it don’t. Enough people did that already. You’re good. 

We're tackling a particularly weird case today while Mark takes a much deserved vacation. Seth, Heather and guest host Aaron dive into the 1973 case of Sam the Sandown Clown, one of the most bizarre monsters... well, ever. 

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SHOW NOTES:

BUFORA Journal Report - 1978

Monsteropolis

Sam the Sandown Space Ghost Clown

 

INTRO

 

We told you Seth was coming back. Ha! But there’s a catch! Mark is on vacation. I know, total rip off. I’m sorry. Some other guy is here to fill the mic. 

 

Announcements?

Ohio Bigfoot Conference

Dawn of The Dogman is filmed! Thank you Backers.

Ogopogo Discount code - 10% off the book, movie or cup until 5/15.

No mail this week

 

• Today we’re talking about a case that is usually discussed in UFO circles, but we’ve picked it because it has a very, very weird monster. And really, the incident itself doesn’t have any ACTUAL UFO sightings - just some nearby ones that add to the mystery. Get ready. 

 

We’re going to the UK today. All the way, all the way over there. 

 

It’s May 1973, Tuesday at around 4 PM, the Isle of Wite, near Lake Common, adjacent to the town of Sandown. Two wee children, around age seven. Their names have not been publicly disclosed apparently, even all these darn years later. Can’t say I blame them though, and you’re about to find out why. They are usually referred to in retellings as “Fay” and “Unnamed boy”

 

• SUDDENLY, they heard a HORRIBLE WAILING NOISE which they described as sounding like an ambulance. Being wee curious children they investigated, following the sound into the woods. Why’s there an ambulance in the woods? That’s a good question. There’s not. 

 

The wee children found themselves near a little bridge running over a little stream, very idyllic except for the wailing, when SUDDENLY A WEIRD GUY WAS THERE. 

 

About seven feet tall and dressed like a clown. Triangle shaped eyes. Three toes and three fingers. Appeared to be made of WOOD. Like, wooden planks for arms. Also wooden antennae poking out from either side of it’s head. Red hair that fell to the forehead, and circular marks on his cheeks, even a little bob on top of the hat.  

 

And when we say “dressed like a clown” we’re talking green tunic, white breeches, conical yellow yat. Like something straight out of Rankin & Bass, but like, wrong. Also, seven feet tall. You know what? Here’s a picture.

 

I just love this dude so much

 

He kind of trips and splashes in the water, and he’s holding this book. Like a regular book. And he drops the thing, right in the water, sort of playing out this whole cartoonish thing, like you hear the music from the animated movie based on this in your head and it’s like “womp WOMP womp WOMP womp womp WOMP WOMP wompy wompy WOMP WOMP WOMP”

 

Then it picks up the book, jumps up on the riverbank and starts like, DANCING AROUND like it’s on the moon or something, lifting it’s legs up super high, doing a fancy jig I guess. THEN it turned and ran off towards a small metal hut, which had apparently been there the whole time, and dashed inside. 

 

• What? This isn’t normal? Seems very normal to me. 

 

And the kids are scared, I mean, you know, they’re not having a great time. This isn’t what they signed up for. But then the tall weird dude comes back, and he’s holding a microphone, and the wailing sound picks back up and the kids are like, nah dude, and they book it. 

 

But then the wailing sound stops, and the weird clown man TALKED.

“Hello. Are you still there?”

 

And the kids can hear him, even though he’s “fifty meters” away. Did I mention the microphone? He’s talking into the microphone. So they stop and turn back and clown brother takes the book back out, the one he dropped earlier. He scribbled a bunch of stuff in the book and showed it to the kids, but was apparently just a bunch of random words out of order. Then he starts pointing, one word at time, repeating the same sequence over and over again. And the message said,

 

“I AM ALL COLORS SAM. HELLO AND I AM ALL COLORS SAM.”

 

Would anyone like to play the part of “kids” for this sequence, I’m down to play Clown, I can also just make scifi noises in the background if you guys wanna do it

 

KIDS - “Are you a man”

CLOWN - “No”

KIDS - “Are you human”

CLOWN - “No”

KIDS - “Are you a ghost”

CLOWN - “Not really, but I am in an odd sort of way”

KIDS - “What are you”

CLOWN - “You know”

 

Sam also explained that there are others like him on earth, but that they fear human beings. He stated that if he were attacked by humans, he wouldn’t fight back. 

 

This is around when they realized the creature could talk without the microphone, but the voice was distorted and the lips didn’t really move, like someone trying to use a ventriloquist dummy.

 

Then he just turns around and walks towards the hut, and invites the kids to follow him inside. 

 

Alright like we’re all parents, so obviously there are some concerns here. It’s not looking good. And it’s gonna get weirder but not like, in a bad way, so, it’s cool. It’s cool. 

 

I’ve been playing a lot of Stardew Valley lately and this is sending me

 

They crawled through this little hole in the side of the hut. It was two-storied on the inside, and had blue-green walls covered in dials or knobs.

 

Then Sam pulled out a berry, stuck it in his ear, and the kids saw it roll around behind his eyes. Then it popped up in his mouth I guess, like a reverse nutcracker or something, and then he just eats the berry like normal. Like that’s just a normal thing to do. 

 

They hang out with Sam for a little while, just, chatting about space stuff I guess? And after thirty minutes or so they bounced, headed home, play time is over, okie dokie. 

 

The kids keep it largely to themselves, except apparently ran up to the first adult they saw on the way home and said they’d seen a ghost. The unnamed bystander didn’t believe them. Stupid idiot. Three weeks later the girl lets it slip to her dad. The report refers to dad as “Mr. Y” to protect his anonymity. 

 

Mr. Y didn’t take the story seriously, until his daughter continued to insist that it was an actual event, apparently becoming upset when he didn’t believe her. Then he starts to question like you and I probably would, “Wait, what if something bad happened and this is just like the child version of it”

 

So he goes and asks the other boy about it, and after some prodding Unnamed Boy tells pretty much the exact same story that Mr. Y’s daughter did. Uh oh, two witnesses. 

 

Now obviously the kids could have come up with this whole thing on their own. I used to have an imaginary friend that was a giant donut. 

 

• But Mr. Y starts taking it more seriously, and contacts BUFORA - The British UFO Research Association. Brilliant name. Blows MUFON out of the water. Our information today comes straight from that report.  

 

But here’s another fun fact - Mr. Y had his own UFO sighting in October of 1970 and March of 1972, so as he’s hearing this story from his daughter, he’s coming off of two really bizarre encounters of his own. Obviously already asking himself what’s out there, what’s going on, etc. The report specifically states that Mr. Y never disclosed his own experiences to his daughter. I mean, later probably, but not while she was a kid and not during this encounter. 

 

He described a large ring of “seven or more spheres” hovering over a river with no apparent purpose. He had eyes on it for several minutes, and other witnesses passed and remarked on it while it was visible. It moved over trees and between some buildings. 

 

During his second encounter he saw two glowing yellow orbs beneath the surface of the water on Compton Bay, which he was overlooking from a cliff face. It was between 9-10 PM. 

In the the BUFORA article Mr. Y is quoted thusly,

Sam. This is Sam. Sam the Sandown Space Ghost Clown. 

 

What do you guys think?

 

• I’ve always felt like maybe this guy is a really bad intergalactic salesperson. The vague answers, flashing fancy goods, obviously really nervous. Like he’s here to sell space toys to kids and he just can’t hack it, so he gives up half way through the pitch and just invites them in for berries. He’s already waving around a sketch book and a karaoke machine. He’s clearly conjuring Christmas Elf with this disguise. 
• Speaking of Rankin and Bass, and bear with me here, because we’re gonna go skeptical for a second - the first Rankin and Bass movie to screen in the UK was Willy McBean and His Magic Machine in 1965. Rankin and Bass’s Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer premiered in the US in 1964, and while I wasn’t able to find a UK release date, we can assume it would have been relatively soon. Maybe before 1973, even. The film features an elf named Hermey who wears your traditional elf garb, not dissimilar to Sam’s. Also present is a living snowman voiced by Burl Ives… named Sam. And of course Bumble the Yeti. 
• I’m NOT saying the kids probably saw this movie and dreamed up some scenario and stuck with it just because that’s what kids do sometimes, I’m not saying that at all, but I also kind of am saying that, because ultimately that’s the most PROBABLE explanation. Even if they hadn’t watched these particular films. One point that’s often mentioned is the amount of detail the kids gave when describing the hut and the creature, leading people to assume they couldn’t have made it up, but dude? Dude. Kids be mad smart. They can imagine all kinds of stuff and have memories like bear traps when they’re interested in something. You ever talk to a nine year old about Pokemon? And also, this was before Pokemon - there wasn’t as much entertainment in those days. Dang I feel like I just ruined it.
• On the other hand, the previous statement is just a theory, and is based on assumptions. There’s no direct line that ties the Sam incident to the Rankin & Bass films, or ANY films for that matter. 
• The more fun, bizarre theory is that this was some kind of space creature or interdimensional interloper, and that it was attempting to disguise itself as a human, and failing. Maybe it wanted to practice blending in, and figured a couple of kids were a great place to start. If they freak out they’re a lot smaller than you, and nobody is likely to believe them anyway. The fact that Mr. Y got the same story two times from two different kids helps, as does the fact that he had his own UFO sightings in the same area. Then again, we could flip that and say that Mr. Y wasn’t able to remain completely objective due to his own experiences. 
• WE will simply probably never know what really happened in 1973. Since, as far as we know, the witnesses have remained anonymous, and for all we know may not be with us anymore (fair chance Fay and Unnamed Boy are still around but that’s just a guess based on how old they’d be today), this one will likely remain an obscure and incredibly entertaining mystery. 

 

You may have heard of Tom Slick, the man who financed many early expeditions in search of Sasquatch both the in US and internationally. But did you know he was also a scientist, military man, inventor, philanthropist, and much more? Learn the strange, fascinating and tragically short history of Thomas Baker Slick Jr. with Heather Moser, Mark Matzke and guest host Aaron Deese. 

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SHOW NOTES

Monsteropolis: Tom Slick

 

Welcome back, you lawless knaves. 

 

READER MAIL - got at least one - HERE IT IS, from our friend Christine!

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Hi Guys,

 

First of all, congratulations on the success of your 10th anniversary Kickstarter!  I can't wait to see your new films, especially The Siege of Ape Canyon and The Kinderhook Creature.

 

I listened with interest to the Monsteropolis episode where you described the changing nature of the appearance of the Wendigo in popular culture from an emaciated human being to one with antlers and a stag's skull. In the fall last year I became aware of the legend of the Leshy of pagan Slavic culture through an excellent YA novel called "Where the Dark Stands Still" by Polish writer A.B. Poranek. When I googled the Leshy I was astounded to see images of what I recognised as the Wendigo. So this got me thinking - is there a Slavic influence at play here too? Perhaps this is something you could look in to! 

 

I am really looking forward to the book and film regarding the Wendigo which I understand may come out next year. I have been fascinated by the Wendigo since reading Algernon Blackwood's novella and there is one passage in particular that always sticks in my mind:

 

"And soon after he slept, the change of wind he had divined stirred gently the reflection of the stars within the lake. Rising among the far ridges of the country beyond Fifty Island Water, it came from the direction in which he had stared, and it passed over the sleeping camp with a faint and sighing murmur through the tops of the big trees that was almost too delicate to be audible. With it, down the desert paths of night, though too faint, too high even for the Indian’s hair-like nerves, there passed a curious, thin odor, strangely disquieting, an odor of something that seemed unfamiliar—utterly unknown."

 

Christine

 

(your biggest Scottish fan who lives in Germany 😄)

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• Today we’re gonna talk about a special guy. A real, real special guy. We’re also going to talk about the history of Sasquatch research in the US, and by extension, the world, and how we might not be where we are without this very special guy. 

 

Thomas Baker Slick, Jr. was born on May 16th, 1916, so this episode will air just under a month before his 109th birthday (right? 109?). Not to be confused with his father, Thomas Baker Slick Sr, who was born in 1883. This can get confusing if you go looking into it and weren’t aware of that. He was from Oklahoma, but moved to San Antonio, Texas pretty much as soon as he could. 

 

Tom inherited a vast fortune at a very young age when his father passed away in August of 1930 - age 46. Remember that number, it’ll be important later. 

 

Unlike the common perception many of us have when we hear the word “millionaire,” Tom Slick didn’t retire to the hamptons and spend his days playing croquet, using words like, “indubitably” and attending the Kentucky Derby. Those are just things I’m assuming millionaires do. 

 

Instead, he spent the remainder of his life pouring all of his energy - and tremendous financial resources - into a number of scientific and industrial pursuits. 

 

He helped to invent the “lift slab” method of construction, which is still used to this day. It sped up the construction process of large buildings and made it a lot safer. Starts with concrete foundations and then uses hydraulic lifts to put pieces into place. 

 

He also financed a TON of scientific research. You could argue it was kind of his main thing, but he had a lot of things. 

He founded the Mind Science Institute, which studied the human mind (wow imagine that), INCLUDING Psychic Phenomena. Yep, it’s getting paranormal now! You were like, “why are we talking about the history of lift-slab construction?”, haha! I know. Just wait there’s more. 

They still exist today, and in fact most of the organizations Slick founded are still in operation at one capacity or another, though some have merged or are now nested under other groups.  

 

He founded the Texas Biomedical Institute and the Southwest Research Institute, which are also both still in operation in San Antonio to this day. Southwest Research does RND for private contractors and the government, and no one is allowed on the facility grounds without a good reason to be there. They’ve been on the History Channel! Modern Marvels, Season 8/Episode 8 “bulletproof,” showing experimental non-lethal weaponry sound stuff, goo stuff, etc.) They also have a test course for self driving cars you can see from the road.  

Barbed wire, security check points, cameras, the works. I drive past it all the time. One of my listeners at HS is a local and has worked there a few times - he says you can’t go anywhere you’re not supposed to be and it’s basically exactly what you’d imagine from a secretive research facility that does work for the government. 

 

Another fun fact though, there is a metal cutout silhouette of Bigfoot on the SWRI grounds which is occasionally moved to different places so people can “search” for it. The SWRI PR rep confirmed as recently as 2022 that it’s still there, and was even kind enough to send me pictures of it, which I’m pretty sure made it into my first book. Hold on I think I have it somewhere.

•  Why Bigfoot? Oh, don’t worry. You finna find out. 

 

SWRI (Under the sub-organization Southwest Primate Research Center) has one of the largest “pedigreed non-human primate populations in the world.” They have 2500 specimens on the grounds. Yep, almost 3000 apes, right in the heart of West Side San Antonio. Someday I figure maybe society will collapse and if I’m still around I’ve got a note to go let these guys free so they can inherit the earth. Ape Future, it’s my plan to save the world. We can talk about it another time probably.  

 

This might already be happening though, because rumors also roll around town about escaped specimens, and some San Antonio old timers remember walking past the grounds and seeing the actual primate enclosures before security was upped and the perimeter extended. 

 

Anyway, why are we talking about a bunch of Texas Apes and some guy named Tom? This dude who was also a philanthropist, pilot, adventurer, military veteran (he served as a “dollar a year” man during WW2, taking an officers commission but effectively collecting no salary) and Sasquatch enthusiast?

• That’s why. That last bit. 

 

- Tom Slick is widely considered to be one of the first, if not the first “patron” of modern cryptozoology. Why? WHY!?

 

- I’ll tell you WHY, jeez, so impatient lol Because Tom spent A BUNCH of money financing expeditions to search for Bigfoot. He was FASCINATED by Cryptozoology, and truly believed it was worth the time and money to investigate. 

 

And not JUST Bigfoot, young ones, oh no no. Slick was fascinated by the whole scope of Cryptozoology. 

 

• In college, he visited Scotland to search for the Loch Ness Monster. (After that he paid a visit to the Soviet Union to “see what it was like” - this will also be important later on). 

 

• But Nessie was just the start. Tom didn’t find her, obv, but it was enough to hook him. Hook? Like a fish? In the water? Eeh? Eh. 

 

• For starters, he traveled to, and later financed expeditions he wasn’t on, to the Himalayas in search of the Yeti. There are some great historical photos of Tom hiking and camping in them there mountains. He preferred to be on the trips himself, but on one of them was injured in a bus crash while traveling through the mountains. Broke his legs if I recall correctly.  

 

- He was involved in a plot to steal the Pangboche Hand, an alleged Yeti hand kept in the Pangboche Monastery in Nepal. It’s bad to steal from monasteries, just to be clear on that. Robbing temples and other sacred places of their cultural artifacts is bad. But they pulled it off - THEY being Tom Slick, famous actor Jimmy Stewart, and a few other interested parties. 

- The story goes that Stewart smuggled the hand through customs in the case containing his wife’s Particular Garments For Ladies, and that officers were unwilling to search it. Smuggling was a lot easier in the old days dude. Like people talk about old timey criminal masterminds like they were super smart but honestly I think I’d be a great 1950s criminal and I’m not very smart.

- Tom also financed the late great Peter Byrne, AKA, one of the Four Horsemen. Tom would link up with Byrne in the early days and provide just about everything Byrne needed to continue his on the ground research. 

- See, this is where a lot of overviews of Slick’s life begin. It’s obviously super important and the main reason we’re talking about him, but I intentionally stuck 2 ½ pages of notes about Slick’s not bigfoot stuff first. I think it gives you an idea of how BIG A DEAL it is that a guy with this many resources and credentials was so invested - literally - in the search.

 

- Tom was also fascinated by the Orang Pendek, which we talked about in Bigfoot International. He sent teams to Sumatra to look for the thing, and we might argue that he’s responsible for introducing it into the modern cryptozoological roster. Don’t quote me on that. 

 

• Slick was also really into giant salamanders, and would also task his “bigfoot teams” with looking for it, which was apparently a point of contention in some cases. “Bro you ain’t paying me to find lizards”

 

• We could go on, and on, and on (CAN YOU GUYS THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE THERE’S MORE I JUST HAD TO STOP SOMEWHERE) 

 

• Slick died tragically in a plane crash on his way back to Texas from Canada at the age of… wait for it… 46. Same age as his daddy, Thomas Baker Slick Sr. 

 

Life is a simulation. 

 

For real though, some people do find this very suspicious. 

 

Even more suspicious when you consider his early trip to the soviet union. 

 

And even MORE suspicious what you consider that Slick owned/was involved in companies that were essentially shell corporations for the CIA. Loren Coleman documents this quite empirically in Tom Slick: True Life Encounters in Cryptozoology.

 

Harkening back to the Soviet visit, some people have speculated that maybe he was visiting on behalf of the CIA. He made the trip to Loch Ness with friends, but moved on to Russia solo. So, I dunno. The fact that he was an officer in WW2 doesn’t do much to knock this idea off either - Slick had documented government/military connections, so who knows what’s still classified. 

 

SO, in summary - very rich very young, poured tons of money into science, industry, philanthropy and cryptozoology, had connections to the CIA and military, also had connections to a lot of famous people like Jimmy Stewart, died at the same age as his father in a plane crash before Slick’s vision/money could intersect with the modern Bigfoot search. It’s likely that Mr. Slick would have passed from natural causes by NOW, but with his resources he probably could have hung on to life for many, many more years. Who knows what else he might have accomplished. 

 

SOOOO it’s really not a stretch to say that Bigfoot Research wouldn’t be where it is today without the four horsemen. Dahinden, Krantz, Green and Byrne paved the way, babyyyy, and Mr. Byrne had some help - a lot of help, by most accounts - from good old Tommy Baker Slick. 

 

A few more factoids about Slick,

 

THAT PODCAST WITH LUKE WILSON

 

He was a major art collector and a good chunk of his collection is housed today in the McNay Art Museum. 

His huge ranch property, Cable Ranch, was donated in parcels to various organizations, like the SWRI and the San Antonio Parks Department. Cable Ranch is a common street name in San Antonio, and Tom Slick Park sits today next to a brand new neighborhood with street names like Nessie’s Way, Yeti Trails and Wildcatter Way (Oklahoma oil guys, like Slick and his cohorts, were often referred to as Wildcatters - Slick’s father was considered the “King” thereof)

Slick was also an author, and a strong proponent of nuclear disarmament. He wrote two books on this topic - The Last Great Hope, and Permanent Peace; A Check and Balance. Haven’t read them myself, but the titles are super inspiring. Really gives you an idea of what his vision of a peaceful future could be like. 

 

Pretty infamous series of Sasquatch sightings in San Antonio from the 70s. I went on a few local SA discussion groups to ask if anyone remembered it during a podcast research dealy, and several people said they had heard that the “bigfoot” in question was an escaped orangutan from the Primate research facility. Not saying that’s what it was because I’m pretty sure we have Bigfoot here, but it’s a fun anecdotal connection between Slick, his real world legacy and Bigfoot. I’m fairly certain that it’s a mix of the two and Slick captured a Bigfoot and today it lives on the SWRI, but nobody seems to agree with me on that even though I dreamed it up all on my own. 

Personally - Just being from here and living in the area for going on 20 years, Slick did a TREMENDOUS amount to bring jobs/development/what have you to San Antonio. Pretty good chance I wouldn’t even live here if it wasn’t for all the industrial development he helped establish. Nevermind the fact that he helped usher Sasquatch research into the twenty first century and give it credibility. 

Mark, Heather and guest host Aaron Deese (Seth will be back soon, we promise) take a trip around the world in search of the International Bigfoot. Sasquatch legends are all over the world - like, really, all over the world - and some of them may be new to you.

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Monsteropolis takes a trip to ancient Greece to meet some of the most well known monsters of all time. Did you know Heather is a professor? You will after today! Featuring guest host Aaron Deese. 

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Theoi Greek Mythology

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As the 2025 Kickstarter draws to a close (there's still time to back!) we're looking ahead at one of the major projects we have coming this year - Dawn of The Dogman. But not that, because it's not out yet! Instead Mark, Heather and Seth are talking about the some of the other Monsters of Michigan. 

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BONUS: Aaron's Unedited Producer Notes:

Monsteropolis

Monsters of Michigan

WELCOME BACK

KICKSTARTER is still running. Last episode before the campaign ends. To keep the excitement going we’re talking about one of our upcoming projects - DAWN OF THE DOGMAN, but not THAT, because that’s what the movie is, and you can’t see it yet. Instead we’re looking at the OTHER Monsters of Michigan. At least a few of them. There might be more. 

Wendigo – cannibalistic humanoid monster. Strong association with winter and extreme cold. Comes from native legends. 

• Has gained a lot of popularity in the modern era, frequently placed alongside other cryptids, but very much its own Native legend. 
• Comes from the Algonquin language/dialect spoken by tribes like Ojibwe, Kree and Saulteaux. 
• You can kill a Wendigo by putting hot tallow down its throat, which melts its icy heart and kills it. Otherwise they’re pretty much invincible. At least in some legends. 
• Like a lot of native lore/older legends, as the Wendigo has become more popular it’s been adapted as a storytelling motif. A lot of horror/narrative podcasts use it as the “monster of the week,” the video game Until Dawn features the Wendigo as it’s primary antagonist (the special edition or secret ending bonus or whatever for that game has Chad Lewis in it talking about the Wendigo) 

Loup Garou - You’ll have to wait for Dawn of The Dogman. Dogman and Loup Garou aren’t exactly the same thing (Rougarou also) and if we wanted to we could get in the weeds and pinpoint differences between what we consider the modern “Dogman” phenomenon and the Loup Garoux vis a vis the term’s roots in France but nah, we savin’ that. 

Sasquatch - The BFRO lists 225 sightings for Michigan, and those are just the ones that made the cut. 

• I don’t really know what else to say about this. Michigan is big and cold and there’s woods, so like, Bigfoot can hide there. Hey, here’s a cool Class A report from the BFRO! 
• Spring of 1999, near Copemish/Thompsonville
  • “I was walking in the woods down a two track by Thompsonville in the early spring morning. On these early morning walks I often scare up deer and occationally a bear so when I heard the noises of something running in the woods I expected to see some such animal. Instead I saw what looked to me like a large man dressed in white running at an incredible speed. He was about 50 yards away and I tracked him for some distance. I was amazed at how he ran so fast through the dense undergrowth. He had to have long legs to be able to traverse the fallen trees and swampy areas.

• The next day I was walking in that same area and discovered tracks that confirmed to me it was not a man I had seen. They were quite large - about 18 inches or so. I could only see three toe prints thought there may have been more that didnt inprint and what may have been claws or long toenails that left a mark. The distance between them was about three of my strides long.”

Pressie - five bucks you already know what this is. That’s right baby, a WATER MONSTER, ERRBODY got a water monster these days. ERRBODY also be stealing Nessie’s alliteration. What happened to originality. Just kidding, no really though I don’t like this trend, kind of glad it’s died off, anyway PRESSIE is,

• Supposed to be whale tailed and horse headed and have whiskers. Sort of sounds like a big manatee. It hangs out in Lake Superior. Lots of water there, plenty of places to hide. Very good monster place. 
• Is Pressie a manatee? Must investigate. 
  • Probably not. It’s supposed to be 75 feet long. 
• First spotted in 1894! Wow. From there it jumps to 1977 with a few sightings in between, and conjecture over rumors of sightings in “the 1990s”
• Named for Presque Isle River where it has frequently been seen. 

Nain Rouge - bon nuit, The Red Dwarf AKA Red Man AKA Little Red Man. I did a House of Monsters on this guy. He’s a favorite. 

• Said to be a harbinger of bad luck and ill fortune
• Shows up before something bad happens
• Ya’ll know Detroit be real french? City was founded by Antoine de la Mothe Cadillac in the 1700s. ONE DAY this guy is on a stroll with his wife, when suddenly a TINY RED MAN jumps out of the bushes. Antoine yelled at the tiny man and hit him with his cane, after which he was CURSED. He eventually lost his fortune and died in poverty. 
• The Nain has been blamed for a number of tragedies over the years, though whether he’s supposed to be causing them or is just showing up to give people a warning seems to be a matter of interpretation.
  • 1763 - The Battle of Bloody Run - 60 british soldiers are massacred by Native inhabitants
    • (OH BUT OF COURSE this had nothing to do with the European settlers encroaching upon land and devastating their populations, sure, totally unprovoked, blame the nain, sorry feeling fighty today, been binging Cobra Kai)
  • The great fire of 1805 - Massive city wide fire, destroyed nearly the entire thing. Massive loss of life and property. In the wake of the fire the city’s flag was changed to include the phrase “Speramus meliora; resurget cineribus,” which means “We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes.” Man I get chills every time, that’s  inspiring.
  • 1967 - The 12th Street Riot - one of the deadliest examples of civil unrest in the United States at that time. Precipitated by a number of onerous conditions, such as racial segregation and over-policing, the riot would result in 43 deaths, nearly 1200 injuries and over 700 arrests. It went on for five days.
  • 1976 - a huge blizzard knocked out and crippled much of the city’s infrastructure
  • And other tragic events throughout the years. 
  • The city would eventually embrace the Nain as a local symbol, holding an annual parade where they chase the Nain out of the city to usher out the bad luck.
  • Fun fact, there’s an OLDER story about Napoleon taking advice from a Little Red Man who advised him on battle tactics. He only lost when he didn’t listen. He’s supposed to have met the guy in an ancient egyptian tomb before declaring himself Emperor of France. 
    • PRODUCER’S NOTE - I’m very much of the opinion that the Nain Rouge is a direct folkloric descendent of Napoleon’s little red man, not literally but like, there’s clearly a lineage there. 

Giant Green Squirrel of Amble: “It is literally just a very large, green squirrel.” - Reddit

• Okay so. I guess this is a squirrel the size of a cow or a small car. 
• It makes a lot of loud chirping and squeaking noises, and it’s also green
• There, uh... There doesn’t seem to be a lot more to this. Or anything else. I like it though, let’s make a movie about it. 

https://99wfmk.com/monster-squirrel-amble/

Okay also though, there are apparently giant squirrel legends present in some native cultures in Nova Scotia (The Micmac Tribe) - some researchers believe these were derived from stories about giant ground sloths, which were (are?) a thing. So there is some background to this one. No idea if theres a direct link to the Michigan one. 

There are OTHER weird Michigan monsters, but because the movie doesn’t come out for a bit we’re gonna save ‘em. Thank you for listening, and be sure to go back the Kickstarter RIGHT NAAAOOO - Link in the show notes. There are only four days left (counting today at time of air), and then a brief window for late backing with much higher rates due to kickstarter specific policies beyond our control.

If you’d like to add on a copy of Mark Matzke’s Ten Years: A Decade of Monsters, send an email to Courteney! [email protected]

Tune in next time, until we meet again! (Skeletor running away meme)

 

 

 

 

Last time we discussed the last ten years of Small Town Monsters - this week we dive into the road ahead and highlight all the ongoing and upcoming projects we're bringing to you RIGHT NOW. 

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We're celebrating 10 years of Small Town Monsters, and this week Seth, Heather and Mark look back on the long road that lead to today. Join us as we kick off the 2025 Kickstarter and reflect on a decade of Monsters!

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Buckeye Bigfoot is midway through its first season with exciting things on the horizon. Seth, Mark and Heather sit down to discuss the show so far, the inspiration for the series, and share some behind the scenes while having an in depth discussion on the Sasquatch of Ohio.

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Watch Sasquatch Unearthed: Buckeye Bigfoot

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