Hope in Source

Nadia Eghbal & Henry Zhu

What are the parallels between faith and open source software.

  • 1 hour 19 minutes
    Snow is a Commons (Melody Kim)

    Can snow itself be like open source? Just a fun thought while walking around talking about openclaw and seeing everyone's creations.. all on a impromptu prospect park sauntercast with Melody after last week's blizzard! (titled after Illich's essay, Silence is a Commons)


    0:00 highlights

    0:38 route and intro

    2:47 two weeks offline

    4:44 open claw and open source

    11:10 into the snow

    14:06 the xkcd dependency comic

    23:48 tragedy of the commons

    25:49 200K stars and eternal September

    33:40 everything was fine

    39:27 go back to just being people

    42:19 striving versus being

    45:54 wu wei

    49:16 audience of one

    56:36 Spotify broke the album

    1:06:42 foreground will never be replaced

    1:10:47 temporal bandwidth

    5 March 2026, 4:44 pm
  • 1 hour 50 minutes
    Salience (Sonya Mann)

    What makes something call out to us? Sonya and Henry explore how prayer transforms perception: ceaseless prayer, the felt body, sacred patterns, remembrance in communion, the invisible church spread through all time, and the holy mystery we're part of. (Recorded October 2020)


    Transcript at https://hopeinsource.com/salience


    0:00 Ceaseless Prayer

    2:37 Creation

    6:44 What Is Salience?

    10:35 The Ordinary as Extraordinary

    15:20 Patterns as Language

    19:34 The Felt Body

    27:19 Remembrance

    34:19 Embodiment

    37:44 Shape All the Way Down

    43:05 Beyond Our Concepts

    46:08 Eucatastrophe

    52:21 Praise and Prayer

    1:03:31 The Invisible Church

    1:11:55 Grace and the Fall

    1:17:05 No Ordinary People

    1:34:21 The Leap of Faith

    1:45:06 Holy Mystery

    8 February 2026, 4:11 am
  • 49 minutes 59 seconds
    Internet Checkpoint (Melody Kim)

    What happens when anyone can build anything? Melody and I snapshot this AI moment for us: vibe coding as gambling, understanding debt, McLuhan's extensions and amputations, building for community not companies, and why culture is really about cultivation.


    0:00 Internet Checkpoint (what it means + why we're recording)

    3:29 Why This Felt Urgent

    8:03 The Vibe Coding Journey (printers → force push → Claude Code)

    12:03 Why It Feels Like Gambling

    14:03 How the Design Process Has Changed

    15:26 Abstraction All the Way Down

    16:56 "The Hottest Programming Language Is English"

    18:14 The Faucet Turned On

    22:55 Will AI Replace Us?

    27:15 McLuhan: Extension and Amputation

    30:05 "The Seed Needs to Be High Quality"

    34:30 Orchestration and Human Judgment

    35:46 Building for Community, Not Companies

    39:58 Culture, Belief, and What Makes Us Human

    42:32 "There Is No Inevitability"

    48:52 The Checkpoint

    7 February 2026, 9:45 pm
  • 1 hour 40 minutes
    An Ordinary Walk (Laurel Schwulst)

    Can a conversation have a sense of place?  Laurel and I take a stroll through Central park on Memorial day: chatting about the idea of a walking podcast, sauntering, voice notes, memory, the romance of distance, physicality, screenshots, printers, embodiment, energy, perception, ultralight, ordinary time.


    Something NEW to listen for: the birds, dogs, cars, shoe tying, and even a lady asking us to take a picture! I certainly felt both the messiness and the surprise of being outside!


    Please check out the site https://sauntercast.henryzoo.com to follow our walking path!


    - (00:00) The Birth of a Walking Podcast

    - (03:01) Exploring the Concept of Footnote

    - (06:09) The Role of Voice Notes and Memory

    - (08:54) Capturing Ambience and Context

    - (12:00) The Challenge of Finding Notes

    - (15:04) Romanticizing Distance and Connection

    - (17:48) Art, Memory, and Public Spaces

    - (21:00) Desire Paths and Unplanned Journeys

    - (23:58) Screenshots as Time Capsules

    - (29:52) Exploring the Energy of Language

    - (32:20) The Meaning Behind Screenshots

    - (34:04) The Art of Printing Memories

    - (36:52) The Journey of Receipt Printers

    - (39:00) Layering Meaning in Screenshots

    - (40:40) Walking the Internet, A New Perspective

    - (47:40) Infrastructure and Awareness

    - (51:01) The Energy of Open Source

    - (58:50) The Evolution of Podcasting and Seasons

    - (59:56) Understanding Open Source Philosophy

    - (01:03:00) The Concept of Lightness and Ultralight

    - (01:06:02) Art, Design, and Limitations

    - (01:08:56) Games as a Medium for Creativity

    - (01:12:03) The Importance of Rest and Time

    - (01:14:59) Exploring Ordinary Time in Life

    - (01:18:00) Creating Meaningful Spaces and Memories

    13 June 2025, 9:59 pm
  • 46 minutes 13 seconds
    The Façade of Control (Melody Kim)

    Does technology give us control or the illusion of it? We explore how societal expectations, the nature of work, and AI challenge what it means to be human, contrasting the allure of self-sufficiency with the call to vulnerability.


    Transcript: ⁠⁠https://hopeinsource.com/facade/


    [05:18] Work Beyond the Title

    [08:29] Unpredictability and Decision Frameworks

    [11:02] Allure of Control

    [13:35] Personhood

    [16:18] Self-Control

    [17:26] Self-Perception

    [19:58] Technological Coping

    [22:56] Deliberate Choices

    [24:37] Unexamined Accelerationism

    [28:01] The Proximity of Care

    [30:56] Self-Sufficiency and Vulnerability

    [33:08] Engineering Out Discomfort

    [35:43] Hidden Labor

    [42:26] Finitude

    9 May 2025, 8:35 pm
  • 43 minutes 46 seconds
    Unpacking Belief (Joseph Choi)

    What does it really mean to call yourself anything? Joseph Choi begins to explore his ongoing journey of faith deconstruction, reconstruction, and whatever it is now. But we end up through about the anxieties around labeling one's beliefs, between commitment and optionality, and abundance and scarcity mindsets.


    Transcript: ⁠https://hopeinsource.com/unpacking

    • (01:04) Labels and Their Limits
    • (04:21) The Trap of Infinite Options
    • (07:06) Beyond Idols
    • (09:42) Marriage as Compounding Interest
    • (13:06) Reconciling Lenses on Truth
    • (16:10) Abundance as a Heavenly Mindset
    • (19:45) The Importance of Embodiment
    • (23:07) Pharisees to Heretics
    • (26:45) Parables, Miracles, and Game Theory
    • (35:54) Organizational Structures
    17 February 2025, 1:06 am
  • 33 minutes 44 seconds
    Sacred Charity (Austin Chen)

    How does rationality/ea and faith intersect? Austin Chen joins me to explore the overlaps between Catholic upbringing and EA principles. We discuss his car wash story, tithing/earning to give, the concept of utilons and fuzzies, creating secular liturgies like Taco Tuesday, the tension between being agentic and the savior complex, on rest and waiting, and seeing the uniqueness of each person amidst the systems we create. (Recorded May 2024)

    Transcript: https://hopeinsource.com/charity

    • (00:00) - Jewish Culture and Rationalism
    • (00:57) - Growing up Tithing
    • (02:16) - Car washing for missions to earn to give
    • (03:49) - Ebbs and Flows
    • (05:32) - How far does a dolllar go
    • (08:49) - Separate your utilons and fuzzies
    • (09:55) - Assumptions in value
    • (11:24) - EA as at it's best a meta-framework?
    • (13:18) - Friends vs Movements
    • (15:42) - Continual commitment
    • (18:56) - Babel and Pentecost
    • (20:16) - The Mystical Body and Taco Tuesdays
    • (24:23) - Agentic or Salvific
    • (26:08) - Humility of Sabbath
    • (28:22) - Efficiency and Waiting
    • (29:49) - Hope is trusting in people
    • (32:06) - Knowledge Progression, Loose Structure
    28 August 2024, 8:40 pm
  • 47 minutes 23 seconds
    Right Feeling (Sonya Mann)

    How does faith call us to both right action and right emotion? Sonya Mann joins me again to discuss the layered meanings of biblical parables. Some themes I liked: the paradoxical nature of faith, the generousity of God, the interplay bt obligation and grace, freedom within constraint, the parable of workers in the vineyard and talents, lay utilitarianism, the nature of praise, phenomenology in faith, the metaphor of weddings, viserality and the flesh, specificity, sacred modes, acceptable woo, cheap grace. (Recorded October 2020) Transcript: https://hopeinsource.com/feeling

    • (00:00) - Right Feeling (Sonya Mann)
    • (02:30) - Come to the table: God's generosity
    • (05:21) - Orthopathos: a change of heart
    • (08:53) - Freedom and Responsibility within the Body
    • (12:42) - On obligation: asking something of you
    • (15:41) - The freedom of the woodcarver
    • (18:36) - formative moments of intimacy
    • (22:37) - integrating with tradition, Christian art, Kanye
    • (25:37) - Archaic on the outside, Alive inside
    • (27:34) - Fruits: the form of faith
    • (30:18) - Auras: acceptable woo and phenomelogy
    • (33:25) - Sacredness as a mode of being
    • (37:26) - Communities of praise
    • (40:05) - One can't help but laugh
    • (41:34) - cheap grace, coming prepared for the wedding
    • (44:09) - A vibration throughout the whole stack
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    9 August 2024, 11:02 pm
  • 50 minutes 27 seconds
    Artificial Physicality (Drew Austin)

    Why does everyone care about New York? Drew Austin explores the interplay bt digital/physical env and how tech values shape our lives. We discuss some of his past essays: fashion as public good, airport lounge-ification highlighting, and how digital paradigms reshape our physical spaces. Topics include: fake serendipity, lofi, gm, resilient systems, the commons as customs, postmodernist software, leaving a trace, Twitter as a waiting room. (Recorded October 2021)


    Transcript: https://hopeinsource.com/artificial

    • (00:00) - Artificial Physicality (Drew Austin)
    • (00:08) - So what's the weather in New York?
    • (01:58) - Even a pandemic becomes about NYC
    • (03:18) - We behave the same, online or in a city
    • (04:39) - Technology, Memory, and Depersonalization
    • (06:46) - Lofi, CDs, and Artifical Physicality
    • (13:19) - From Sharing Silence to gm
    • (15:58) - Worn Out: Fashion and Public Space
    • (21:39) - Modernist architecture and postmodernist software
    • (27:41) - Code isn't just code
    • (29:25) - Infrastructure requires resilience
    • (31:28) - The commons as customs
    • (33:43) - Airport Lounge-ification of Cities
    • (37:03) - McDonalds as the only third place
    • (39:51) - Reverse engineering bodegas
    • (41:31) - Fake serendipity vs the city
    • (44:17) - Can digital environments enable serendipity?
    • (47:12) - Leaving a trace, a legacy, provenance
    • (48:17) - Twitter as a waiting room
    7 August 2024, 10:50 pm
  • 50 minutes 14 seconds
    Everyone is "Protestant" Online (L.M. Sacasas)

    How do we all act as protestants online? L.M. Sacasas joins Henry (4th time!?) to chat about material/digital culture, how we compensate for natural affordances in new digital interfaces, our inability to account for non-measurable losses, texture vs. frictionlessness, lofi, roguelikes, reality tv, ambient data capture, extracting our private life for gain, how digital space is more of a past rather a place. (Recorded August 2022) Transcript: https://hopeinsource.com/protestant

    • [00:00] Introduction
    • [04:15] The Everyday Texture of Material Culture
    • [07:11] Translated Affordances of Digital Interfaces
    • [09:11] The Burden of Note-Taking Systems
    • [10:36] No Accounting for Loss
    • [11:48] The Added Texture of Lofi
    • [14:54] Anchors of the Material World
    • [16:02] The Frictionless Life
    • [18:03] The Internal Motivation of Roguelikes
    • [19:42] The Language of Needs
    • [21:52] Liturgies and Mediums
    • [22:47] No Material Trace
    • [24:41] Compensating for the Losses of the Digital
    • [27:28] You can't capture me!
    • [29:11] Reality TV prepped us for the Very Online Life
    • [31:23] Ambient Capture and Surveillance Culture
    • [33:41] On the Terms of the Medium 
    • [35:41] Extraction of Private Life into Public Benefit
    • [38:28] On Loneliness and Making a Living
    • [41:45] Negotiating The Terms of Technology
    • [43:45] The Gradience of Relationality in Sidewalk Life
    • [45:12] Artificially Reconstituting Our Being in a Built Environment
    • [48:07] A Gaze Turned Pastward
    27 September 2022, 10:54 pm
  • 43 minutes 49 seconds
    Finding Hope Amid Burnout (Alex Kim)

    Where can hope be found? Alex Kim joins again to open up questions of responsibility, and our place in relation to times of weariness. He speaks out his experiences growing up and also shepherding a local church body as a youth pastor. We speak amidst the burnout on notions of time, the work of Charles Taylor through Andrew Root, work/play, and living out in hope. Maybe it's what this podcast is attempting to work towards! (Recorded June 2022)


    Transcript: https://hopeinsource.com/hope


    27 September 2022, 10:16 pm
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