Before Brad McLeod became one of recovery’s most inspiring voices, he survived an almost unbelievable series of hardships—including childhood instability, extreme isolation as a teen, addiction, incarceration and briefly sharing a jail cell with a murderer.

Now he’s the founder of Sober Motivation and helps people around the world stay sober through honesty, storytelling and connection. This conversation answers the question: how does someone survive the unsurvivable?

The Sober Curator (thesobercurator.com) is the place to find all things sober pop culture and more. It has you covered on book, movie, music, and TV reviews, sober travel and events, gift guides, and other tips for living your best sober life.  We talked all about it with our friend Alysse Bryson, the Sober Curator herself, who created the site for fellow pop culture, fashion, and entertain junkies, who happen not to drink.  Subscribe to the newsletter and watch for the upcoming membership club, “Backstage with the Sober Curator.” It will have special live sessions and content. We’ll be there!

You know the birthdays, the ones with a zero at the end? Hitting our first ones in sobriety added a new dimension to the milestones. Lisa couldn’t believe she made it her 40th birthday and wishes she’d kept contributing to her 401(K) before that. Anna turned 30 a month after going to rehab and 50 in the midst of the pandemic. Despite the challenges, in the end we realized there’s always a reason to celebrate.

It’s the dreaded 8th Step in 12-Step recovery - making amends to those we have harmed. Anna and Lisa talk about their first experiences with it, as well as what “living amends” look like. And when an amends turns into a bitch session for the other person, we take it in stride, and maybe even have a laugh years later. Plus: how do you make amends to a no-longer-living grandmother you tricked into shoplifting against her knowledge?

What does the first Saturday night you stay home sober look and feel like? Just the prospect of it can send shivers down a newly sober spine. Lisa remembers a sense of relief, tinged with some envy knowing that her friends were out partying. Anna learned that boring wasn’t always bad and that maybe those people who’d been watching Saturday Night Live while she was out tearing it up were onto something.

We catch up with Ann Dowsett Johnston (anndowsettjohnston.com), the author of the groundbreaking bestseller, DRINK: THE INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WOMEN AND ALCOHOL. Published in 2013, it will be mass-market re-released in the fall. In her 60s, Ann got brave again, followed her heart and became a psychotherapist. We dig into all of this, plus the return of Ann’s popular memoir writing course,  “From Memory to Memoir.” For women only, it’s an eight-session live-on-Zoom course, and it takes participants from the elements of finding voice and story to getting an agent. Classes start at the end of April, so register now: anndowsettjohnston.com/workshops

Eric Zimmer went from homelessness, heroin addiction, and facing prison at 24 to inspiring global audiences with his podcast, The One You Feed, and his new book,  How a Little Becomes a Lot: The Art of Small Changes for a More Meaningful Life. Eric and Anna discuss how Eric’s podcast grew, why he didn’t focus it solely on recovery and what it took for him to decide on the book he wanted to write.

Business dinners often come with the expectation of drinking to loosen things up and get everyone feeling chummy. Defying that expectation can feel uncomfortable, but it doesn’t have to. Anna spent her first nine months of sobriety among the open bars of the most fabulous Hollywood events as Premiere magazine’s “Party Girl” columnist while Lisa’s nights out with her colleagues taught her a lot about the way other people drink.

Who says you can’t go home again? You can. Sometimes it’s a choice, and sometimes it’s not. Lisa went home to her family straight out of detox and immediately faced the reality that she might have left the world of drinking, but it hadn’t left her. Anna learned what can happen when a family member asks if you mind if they drink, you say you do and they get mad. The ladies also veer into discussing going home to an apartment that had previously been a den of inequity and starting fresh (and clean).

Being a sober woman in a male-dominated corporate world can be challenging, to say the least. Toni Will, General Manager and Governor of a men’s professional hockey team, knows all about it. So do Lisa and Anna. They talk about how their sobriety gives them an advantage in dealing with the demands and frustrations of work, as well as going public with their sobriety.

Learn more about Toni here. 

It was bound to happen - an ex from our pasts would pop up out of nowhere. Lisa ended up rekindling an old flame that was more fun sober. And Anna found herself face-to-face with her first love. We talk about crazy run-ins, finding closure, and the universe bringing people back into our lives.