Rob, Doug, Andy, and Sarah chat with Gabe Cuzzillo (Ape Out, Despelote) and Bennett Foddy (Getting Over It with Bennett Foddy, QWOP) about their (with Maxi Boch) latest game, the multi-IGF-nominated open-world hard-walking manchild simulator Baby Steps. We discuss the game's in-house approach to voice acting, balancing challenge with humor, creating (and hiding) a looping environment, telling an honest story about masculinity, including explicit content without getting banned from Steam, rock curation, secrets, and so much more!

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway

Discussed in this episode:

Baby Steps https://www.babystepsgame.com/

Dr. Katz, Professional Therapist https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111942/

My Summer Car https://store.steampowered.com/app/516750/My_Summer_Car/

zk map (for stranger) https://www.glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/11388

La belle noiseuse (1991) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101428/

Kelly Reichardt https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0716980/

Perfect Days (2023) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27503384/

The Taste of Things (2023) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19760052/

NYU Game Center Lecture Series Presents Jane Ng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yWIoRuwpm0

DESPELOTE: FIFTH TRAILER (now on nintendo switch) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MXKlgMZ3Jc

The Love That Remains (2025) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt33381401/

Solo (Australian ad) 1983 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCkz0JsaU8k

Solo Man ad, Australia 1986 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T3RS78Tp58

Solo (Australian ad) 1984 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_1nZZrv8aU

Frog Detective 3 https://store.steampowered.com/app/1171320/Frog_Detective_3_Corruption_at_Cowboy_County/

https://secretlives.games

https://discord.gg/tslog

https://www.patreon.com/tslog

We're joined by droqen (The End of Gameplay, Starseed Pilgrim), Darius Kazemi (Tiny Subversions, Harvard Applied Social Media Lab), and Tara Macalister (mathematician, composer) to discuss Vertex Dispenser, the second game in our year-long exploration of the work of Michael Brough.

Next Month: Kompendium

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway.

Discussed in this episode:

Vertex Dispenser https://store.steampowered.com/app/102400/Vertex_Dispenser/

Michael Brough's Website https://www.smestorp.com/

Four color theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_color_theorem

Graph coloring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_coloring

Starcraft II https://starcraft2.blizzard.com/en-us/

Splatoon https://splatoon.nintendo.com/ Dota 2 https://www.dota2.com/home Droqen's rare color graph/explanation https://discord.com/channels/690388280767807518/1442554518092120186/1465039921147412510

lots of michael brough games https://smestorp.itch.io/lots-of-michael-brough-games

The Sense of Connectedness https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=16151.0

Kompendium https://mightyvision.blogspot.com/2012/06/kompendium.html

The End of Gameplay https://droqen.itch.io/the-end-of-gameplay

Utopia Clicker https://tinysubversions.com/game/utopia/

A Jackpot of Skulls https://brainfruit.studio/games/jackpot

_update() Jam https://adamatomic.itch.io/update-jam

https://secretlives.games/

https://discord.gg/tslog

https://www.patreon.com/tslog

https://www.youtube.com/eggplantshow

The gang's all here to count down our favorite "games" of "2025", alongside a bevvy of great picks from previous guests and listeners. Happy new year!

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway

Our GOTY Picks (SPOILERS!):

~~~~~~~~~

Rob

5. Many Nights a Whisper - Deconstructeam, Selkie Harbour

4. Blue Prince - Dogubomb

3. Skat - German Trick Taking Game

2. UFO 50 - Mossmouth

1. Caves of Qud - Freehold Games

Zach

Hollow Knight: Silksong - Team Cherry

Pokemon Legends: Z-A - Game Freak

Dragon Warrior IV - Chunsoft

(Bonus: CorgiSpace - Adam Saltsman)

Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire (N64) - Lucasarts

1. Kirby and the Forgotten Land - HAL Laboratory

Doug

5. Don't Rank Cuomo - Robert Yang

4. Harold Holt Video Series (first episode) (YouTube uploads) - James Ward

3. Baby Steps - Gabe Cuzzillo, Maxi Boch, Bennett Foddy

2. Dr. Robotnik's Ring Racers - Kart Krew

1. Slice & Dice - Tann

Nick

Tall Trails - Brady Soglin

Magical Athlete - Takashi Ishida - updated design by Richard Garfield

The Attraction - Palace Games San Francisco

Hot Streak - Jon Perry

1. Öoo - NamaTakahashi, tiny cactus studio, Tsuyomi

Sarah

5. Consume Me - Jenny Jiao Hsia, AP Thomson, et al.

4. Blue Prince - Dogubomb

3. Slice & Dice - Tann

2. Tiny Bookshop - neoludic games

1. Lorelei and the Laser Eyes - Simogo

Laura

The Roottrees are Dead - Evil Trout Inc.

Type Help - William Rous

Monkey Around: the Wiggle and Giggle Game - Peaceable Kingdom

despelote - Julián Cordero, Sebastian Valbuena

Death Wears White - Guillaume Montiage/Asmodee

Andy

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - Nintendo

Hollow Knight: Silksong - Team Cherry

Hot Streak - Jon Perry

Death Stranding 2: On The Beach - Kojima Productions

The Old King's Crown - Pablo Clark

Other picks from guests and listeners:

UFO 50 - Mossmouth

Consume Me - Jenny Jiao Hsia, AP Thomson, et al.

Öoo - NamaTakahashi, tiny cactus studio, Tsuyomi

Hollow Knight: Silksong - Team Cherry

Blue Prince - Dogubomb

Clues By Sam - Ad Artis Oy

Magical Athlete - Takashi Ishida - updated design by Richard Garfield

Complex 629 - Lillex Studios

Donkey Kong Bananza - Nintendo

Final Fantasy V - Square Enix

Baby Steps - Gabe Cuzzillo, Maxi Boch, Bennett Foddy

Puzzmo Crosswords - Puzzmo Team & Collaborators

Numberblocks RPG (developed in Izzy Kestrels mind)

Lost Cities - Reiner Knizia

Deadlock - Valve

Hexadecipad NES Tetris Tournament - Patrick LeMieux and Stephanie Boluk

Star Waspir (from UFO 50) - Mossmouth

Lumines Arise - Enhance, Monstars

Outer Wilds - Mobius Digital

Zexion - Gallant Leaf

PEAK - Landfall

Writing essays

Elden Ring Nightreign - FromSoftware

Unfair Flips - HEATHER FLOWERS

DISCOPUP - Parry Mechanics

OVER/UNDER - Sam Sorenson

Type Help - William Rous

Rain World - Videocult

Snekburd - Werxzy

2025 Pico-8 Advent Calendar - organized by Kevin Thompson and bikibird

Mol Hunt for 2025 Season of De Mol - TSLOG Discord

Q-UP - Everybody House Games

Many Nights a Whisper - Deconstructeam, Selkie Harbour

Vantage - Stonemaier Games

The Old King's Crown - Pablo Clark

Hot Streak - Jon Perry

Cave Noire - Konami

Judo (martial art)

Retro handheld hobby

Clair Obscur | Expedition 33 - Sandfall Interactive

Skin Deep - Blendo Games

Peekaboo

The Séance of Blake Manor - Spooky Doorway

Minni & Max (from UFO 50) - Mossmouth

Patapon - Pyramid, Japan Studio

Promise Mascot Agency - Kaizen Game Works

10S Forever - owch

Miscellaneous Honorable Mentions:

Perfect Dark (N64) - Rare

ACTION BUTTON REVIEWS Cyberpunk 2077

Party House of the Day (mod of UFO 50) - Mossmouth

Cairn - The Game Bakers

Other topics discussed this episode:

Why We're Boycotting Xbox (and Maybe You Should Too) - People Make Games

Cosmic Encounter - Fantasy Flight Games

Upcoming games packed with hidden secrets! – FuryForged

Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective - Space Cowboys

Klaverjas - Dutch Trick-taking Game

129: Reinforcing Worldbuilding through Gameplay with Spoils

despelote - Official Nintendo Switch Trailer

Immersipedia

https://eggplant.show/

https://discord.gg/tslog

https://www.patreon.com/tslog

We're joined by Shawn Alexander Allen (Beatdown City Survivors), Cole Wehrle (Root), and Drew Wehrle (Pax Pamir) to discuss the first title in our year-long exploration of the work of Michael Brough: 868-HACK.

Next Month: Vertex Dispenser

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway

Discussed in this episode:

868-HACK

https://868-hack.neocities.org/

Michael Brough's Website

https://www.smestorp.com/

XPerience Studios

https://xperiencestudios.org/

"King Me": A Defense of King-Making in Board Game Design

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UraJElx1ebg

Leder Games

https://ledergames.com/

Wehrlegig Games

https://wehrlegig.com/

7-Day Roguelike Jam blog post

https://mightyvision.blogspot.com/2013/03/7drl-day-2.html

868-HACK Release Trailer (2015)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMH-yDR35lI

PRACTICE 2013: Michael Brough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4iswqa8r-Q

Michael Brough on balancing prog costs:

https://mightyvision.blogspot.com/2014/06/868-hack-prog-costs.html

Michael Brough on streak scoring

https://mightyvision.blogspot.com/2013/05/score-conditions.html

https://mightyvision.blogspot.com/2017/09/streak-scoring-redux.html

James Lantz on 868-HACK

https://web.archive.org/web/20160531060339/https://www.decisionproblem.com/inmachinam/?p=175

Dewan

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/439742/dewan

Zaynation Complete UFO50 Alternate History Voicemails

https://discord.com/channels/690388280767807518/1298414011368607796/1440018452050870385

Michael OBlivion tutorials:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R92zN2899s&t=586s

Rock Paper Shotgun 868-HACK Review (2015)

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/868-hack-review-pc

Michael Brough on passive vs active abilities

https://mightyvision.blogspot.com/2013/05/uniform-activations.html

Vivafringe blog post on 868-HACK Secret Level and Good vs. Bad Secrets

https://vivafringe.wordpress.com/2017/07/20/lets-spoil-868-hacks-secret-level-and-talk-about-good-secrets-vs-bad-secrets/

Beatdown City Survivors

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3383040/Beatdown_City_Survivors/

Molly House & John Company Reprinting

https://john-company-molly-house-reprint.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders

Michael Brough on Plan B design notes

https://mightyvision.blogspot.com/2017/07/planb-notes.html

Brick101 - new Steam guide for Powerups

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3577171247

Spawn count chart:

https://discord.com/channels/690388280767807518/1418970536137981962/1425545294032146494

https://secretlives.games/

https://discord.gg/tslog

https://www.patreon.com/tslog

Nick is joined by guest co-host Chris Plante (Post Games) for a chat with Kimmo Lahtinen (aka gimbll) about his dynamite new twin-stick shooter, Sektori. They discuss the joy of the genre, pursuing excellence in an oversaturated genre, and how personal limitations shape solo development.

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway

Discussed in this episode:

Sektori

https://www.gimblll.com/sektori/

Day Repeat Day

https://www.gimblll.com/dayrepeatday/

Barbearian

https://www.gimblll.com/barbearian/

Drift and Drive

https://www.gimblll.com/driftndrive/

Resogun

https://housemarque.com/games/resogun

Outland

https://housemarque.com/games/outland

Dead Nation

https://housemarque.com/games/dead-nation

Super Stardust Portable

https://housemarque.com/games/ssp

Geometry Wars

https://store.steampowered.com/app/8400/Geometry_Wars_Retro_Evolved/

Rez Infinite

https://www.rezinfinite.com/

Post Games podcast

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/post-games/id1815131711

Besties podcast

https://www.themcelroy.family/podcasts/besties/

Limetown podcast

https://twoupproductions.com/limetown/podcast

Quest Tabletop Game

https://www.adventure.game/

https://secretlives.games

https://discord.gg/tslog

https://www.patreon.com/tslog

We're proud to present the final installment of our over-a-year-long Into the Depths series on Caves of Qud, as well as our last episode with our recently retired Eggplant branding. Caves of Qud is a massive open-world roguelike RPG that has been in development since 2007 and Early Access since 2015, and we give it an appropriately epic sendoff with nearly four hours of deep discussion.

Doug and Rob, joined by special guest host Star St. Germain, dive into the game's finale and overarching themes with narrative designer Caelyn Sandel and co-creators Jason Grinblat and Brian Bucklew. Be warned, major spoilers await: We discuss the aftermath of the Tomb of the Eaters, the Moon Stair, the [Redacted], Reclamation, We Are [Redacted], plus other juicy details about how this legendary game finally came to an end… and what's in store for it next.

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway.

Discussed in this episode:

Brian's must-follow bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/unormal.bsky.social

Warm static – Official Caves of Qud wiki https://wiki.cavesofqud.com/wiki/Warm_static

Independent Games Summit: What Even is 1.0?: Indefinite Early Access and Live Development https://gdcvault.com/play/1035081/Independent-Games-Summit-What-Even

End-to-End Procedural Generation in Caves of Qud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV-DZqdKlnE

Tile-Based Map Generation using Wave Function Collapse in 'Caves of Qud' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdCgi9E90jw

Caves of Qud Discord https://discord.com/invite/cavesofqud

Eris – Girsh Illustration https://www.reddit.com/r/cavesofqud/comments/1n449aw/girsh_qas_and_qon/

A Mythopoetic Interface Reading of Caves of Qud (Roguelike Celebration 2025) https://www.youtube.com/live/UQNfH9pKWd4?si=jFy9VTRZzLPJHn4W&t=1091

Sproggiwood https://store.steampowered.com/app/311720/Sproggiwood/

Slav Epic Paintings by Alphonse Mucha https://www.muchafoundation.org/en/gallery/themes/theme/slav-epic

https://secretlives.games/

https://bsky.app/profile/secretlivesofgames.bsky.social

https://www.youtube.com/eggplantshow

http://discord.gg/tslog

https://www.patreon.com/tslog

(full rebrand still in progress, lol)

We're joined by Frank Lantz (Q-UP) and Mare Sheppard + Raigan Burns of Metanet (N++) for the first episode of All Systems Brough, a year-long exploration of the work of Michael Brough. We share our thoughts on why Michael's oeuvre demands a deep dive, add some historical context, and share the plan for the year ahead. We also introduce a (final?) rebrand to the podcast!

Next episode: 868-HACK (it's also recommended that you start playing Vesper.5 now to prepare for later)

(Tentative) Episode/play order:

1. 868-HACK

2. Vertex Dispenser

3. Zaga-33

4. Vesper.5

5. Corrypt

6. Kompendium (plus digital archiving of O)

7. BECOME A GREAT ARTIST IN JUST 10 SECONDS

8. Helix (plus SMESPORT)

9. Imbroglio

10. Cinco Paus

11. P1 Select (plus Quinzena maybe?) & Broughlike Game Jam Games

12. 868-BACK (caveat: still in development)

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway

Discussed in this episode:

Michael Brough's Website

https://www.smestorp.com/

Michael O'Blivion's Youtube Channel

https://www.youtube.com/@michael_oblivion

Flock

https://annapurnainteractive.com/en/games/flock

Wilmot's Warehouse Boardgame

https://www.cmyk.games/products/wilmot

Q-UP

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3730790/QUP/

Donkeyspace (Frank's Substack)

https://franklantz.substack.com/

The Beauty of Games

https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262552950/the-beauty-of-games/

Metanet Software

https://www.metanetsoftware.com/about-us

N++

https://nplusplus.org/

PRACTICE 2015: Mare Sheppard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBCDeMl4VwY

FTL

https://subsetgames.com/ftl.html

Sylvie's Games

https://sylvie.website/

A wild start, 41 points with no artifacts! (Cinco Paus LP ep 1) by vivafringe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-8xXBwAdG4

Droqen's website

https://www.droqen.com/

Raigan's bluesky (will give away free copies of Cinco Paus on Christmas!)

https://bsky.app/profile/raiganburns.bsky.social

Q-UP OST

https://kariomart.bandcamp.com/album/q-up-ost

868-HACK (Steam)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/274700/868HACK/

Vesper.5

https://mightyvision.blogspot.com/2012/08/vesper5.html

https://www.youtube.com/@thesecretlivesofgames

https://discord.com/invite/tslog

https://www.patreon.com/tslog

Rob, Sarah, and Doug chat with Jenny Jiao Hsia and AP Thomson about Consume Me, an award-winning autobiographical resource-management RPG about the pressure cooker of young adulthood. We discuss the game's ten-year development cycle, balancing dynamic difficulty in a game about overachievement, the complex dynamics of mining your own story, and more!

Heads up: This episode includes discussion of disordered eating and religious upbringing.

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway.

Mentioned in this episode:

Consume Me https://hexecutable.itch.io/consume-me https://store.steampowered.com/app/2359120/Consume_Me/

Prototyping Personal Experience – Jenny's talk at A MAZE 2017 https://youtu.be/iQ-PaGTr-iI?si=RIAWQMFZfMWCVCsN

Papers Please by Lucas Pope https://papersplea.se/

Nina Freeman's games on itch.io https://starmaidgames.itch.io/

Triad by Anna Anthropy https://w.itch.io/triad

Reigns by Nerial https://www.reignsgame.com/reigns

Long Live the Queen by Hanako Games https://hanakogames.itch.io/long-live-the-queen

Perfect Tides by Meredith Gran https://granulac.itch.io/perfect-tides

Look Back (movie) https://www.amazon.com/Look-Back-Kiyotaka-Oshiyama/dp/B0DH5DMSRW

Look Back (manga) https://www.viz.com/look-back

Jenny's TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@q_dork

AP's Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bad_tetris/

https://eggplant.show/

https://discord.gg/eggplant

https://www.patreon.com/eggplantshow

https://www.youtube.com/eggplantshow

Laura, Rob, and Sarah chat with Adam Robinson-Yu about The Annual Ghost Town Pumpkin Festival, a communal and virtual festival experience hosted every ~October for the last six years. We discuss the logistics of running a seasonal multiplayer game, encouraging emergent interactions through limited tools, highlighting pumpkin artistry, expressing embodiment in digital space, building secrets over time, and more!

NOTE: If you want to avoid spoilers of this year's additions to the game, skip the section from 1:12:40 to 1:22:00!

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway

Discussed in this episode:

Ghost Town Pumpkin Festival https://adamgryu.itch.io/pumpkin-carver

Laura E. Hall's 31 Days of Halloween newsletter https://buttondown.com/31daysofhalloween

Adam's Itch https://adamgryu.itch.io/

Adam's Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/adamgryu.bsky.social

https://eggplant.show/

https://discord.gg/eggplant

https://www.patreon.com/eggplantshow

https://www.youtube.com/eggplantshow

Laura chats with Jeremy Johnston and Robin Ward about The Roottrees are Dead, their genealogy, murder-mystery, "static deduction" game. We discuss the development process of taking a jam prototype to full release, developing hints and systems that lead players to satisfying discoveries, and the taxonomy of games like The Roottrees are Dead and The Return of the Obra Dinn.

Spoilers abound, so consider playing the game first before tuning in.

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway

Discussed in this episode:

The Roottrees are Dead (Steam) https://store.steampowered.com/app/2754380/The_Roottrees_are_Dead/

The Roottrees are Dead (itch.io – Global Game Jam entry) https://jjohnstongames.itch.io/the-roottrees-are-dead

Return of the Obra Dinn https://store.steampowered.com/app/653530/Return_of_the_Obra_Dinn/

Outer Wilds https://store.steampowered.com/app/753640/Outer_Wilds/

Her Story https://store.steampowered.com/app/368370/Her_Story/

Family https://owlskip-games.itch.io/family

Type Help https://william-rous.itch.io/type-help

The Rise of the Golden Idol https://store.steampowered.com/app/2716400/The_Rise_of_the_Golden_Idol/

Blue Prince https://store.steampowered.com/app/1569580/Blue_Prince/

Severance https://tv.apple.com/us/show/severance/umc.cmc.1srk2goyh2q2zdxcx605w8vtx

White Lotus https://www.max.com/shows/white-lotus/14f9834d-bc23-41a8-ab61-5c8abdbea505

Righteous Gemstones https://www.max.com/shows/righteous-gemstones/c3bd0a34-c4ce-4ca5-bd6c-820df7340671

Announcement: Eggplant Plays De Mol (2025 Season) https://eggplant.show/announcing-eggplant-plays-de-mol-2025-season

The Genius (Korean Game Show) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Genius_(TV_series)

Robin Ward's blog (links to socials included) https://eviltrout.com/

The Roottrees are Dead Discord server https://discord.com/invite/Z6Y5sE9Dgt

https://eggplant.show/ https://discord.gg/eggplant https://www.patreon.com/eggplantshow

We're joined by (most of) the developers of UFO 50 - Derek Yu, Jon Perry, Eirik Suhrke, Tyriq Plummer, and Paul Hubans - to close out our series with a project-spanning discussion of their development process, how they're feeling a year out from launch, and so much more.

Next week: Who knows??

Audio edited by Dylan Shumway

Discussed in this episode:

868-HACK

https://868-hack.neocities.org/

Eggplant: The Secret Lives of Games Presents: A Year of UFO 50 Finale Eggstravaganza - LIVE! Recording

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTHuGIU3wRI

Eggplant Merch!

https://cottonbureau.com/people/eggplant-the-secret-lives-of-games-podcast

A Year of Block Koala

https://redcircle.com/shows/4e5322d3-2ea6-42dc-bfb3-18a427384a68

Roguelike Celebration 2025 (Including Fireside Chat with Jon Perry!)

https://www.roguelike.club/event2025.html

Time Barons

https://www.time-barons.com/about.html

Middleditch and Schwartz

https://www.middleditchandschwartz.com/

SPONTANEANATION with Paul F. Tompkins

https://www.earwolf.com/show_archive/spontaneanation-with-paul-f-tompkins-archive/

Scrubbin' Trubble (Tyriq's upcoming game)

https://scrubbintrubble.com/

Madhouse (Paul's upcoming game)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3727130/MADHOUSE/

UFO 50 Physical Edition

https://www.fangamer.com/products/ufo-50-game-nintendo-switch-deluxe-edition

https://www.youtube.com/eggplantshow

http://discord.gg/eggplant

https://www.patreon.com/eggplantshow