The Education Gadfly Show
The Thomas B. Fordham Institute
For more than eight years, the Fordham Institute has been hosting a weekly podcast, The Education Gadfly Show. Each week, you’ll get lively, entertaining discussions of recent education news, usually featuring Fordham’s Mike Petrilli and Alyssa Schwenk. Then the wise Amber Northern will recap a recent research study.
- 35 minutes 50 seconds#960: Why Secretary McMahon shouldn’t waive federal testing requirements, with Charles Barone
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Charles Barone, Senior Director of the Center for Innovation at the National Parents Union, joins Mike and David to discuss the future of federal assessment and accountability policies under the Trump Administration. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a study on student loan forgiveness and its impact on work, earnings, and borrowing.
Recommended content:
- Charles Barone, “The Future of Assessment and Accountability | Part 1 | Goodbye Federal Assessment Guardrails?,” National Parents Union (2025).
- Dale Chu, “Are states ready to lead on education? Could Trump’s policies set them up to fail?,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (March 6, 2025).
- Victoria McDougald, “The case for standardized testing,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (August 1, 2025).
- Michael Dinerstein, Samuel Earnest, Dmitri K. Koustas and Constantine Yannelis, Student Loan Forgiveness, NBER (February 2025)
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].
12 March 2025, 8:00 am - 40 minutes 18 seconds#959: Are GPAs the key to measuring school quality? with Jing Liu and Seth Gershenson
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Jing Liu (University of Maryland) and Seth Gershenson (American University), authors of our latest report, Ready or Not? A New Way to Measure Elementary and Middle School Quality, join Mike and David to explore how tracking students’ future GPAs could offer a clearer measure of school quality. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber reviews a new study on young children’s evolving media consumption habits and their effects.
Recommended content:
- Jing Liu, Ph.D. Seth Gershenson, Ph.D. and Max Anthenelli, Ready or Not? A New Way to Measure Elementary and Middle School Quality, Thomas B. Fordham Institute (February 20, 2025).
- David Griffith and Amber Northern, “Make room, test scores: Introducing “indicators of high school and middle school readiness,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (February 20, 2025).
- Supreet Mann, Angela Calvin, Amanda Lenhart, and Michael Robb, The 2025 Common Sense Census: Media Use by Kids Zero to Eight, Common Sense Media (2025)
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].
5 March 2025, 9:00 am - 35 minutes 14 seconds#958: Louisiana’s NAEP gains and the power of a strong curriculum, with John White
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, John White, former Louisiana superintendent of education and current CEO of Great Minds PBC, joins David and Amber to discuss the reforms he led in Louisiana and their role in the state’s significant NAEP gains. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber highlights a study on the expansion of “transitional kindergarten” in Michigan and its impact on early learning access and socioeconomic gaps.
Recommended content:
- Kevin Mahnken, “New NAEP Scores Dash Hope of Post-COVID Learning Recovery,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (January 29, 2025).
- Emily Freitag, “A bold state move to improve reading,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (February 20, 2025).
- Sara Schwartz, “Why Are Reading Scores Still Falling on the Nation’s Report Card?,” EducationWeek (January 29, 2025).
- Sonia Q. Cabell, James S. Kim, Thomas G. White, Charles J. Gale, Ashley A. Edwards, HyeJin Jordan Berne, Katia Córdoba García, Brian A. Jacob, Tareena Musaddiq, Samuel Owusu, Anna Shapiro, and Christina Weiland, Transitional Kindergarten: The New Kid on the Early Learning Block, SAGE Journals (2025)
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].
26 February 2025, 9:00 am - 37 minutes 8 seconds#957: DOGE, IES, and the future of education research
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Mike and David discuss what’s really going on with DOGE, including its cuts to IES research grants and the implications for education policy. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber highlights a study on whether the Core Knowledge curriculum helped strengthen kindergarteners’ vocabulary and knowledge.
Recommended content:
- Chester E. Finn, Jr., “Easy, DOGE. IES matters.,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (February 11, 2025).
- Robert Pondiscio, “Culture war vs. competence: Why conservatives should support Penny Schwinn,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (February 6, 2025).
- Chester E. Finn, Jr., “Trump should stay out of what students learn in school,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (January 30, 2025).
- Sonia Q. Cabell, James S. Kim, Thomas G. White, Charles J. Gale, Ashley A. Edwards, HyeJin Hwang, Yaacov Petscher, and Rhonda M. Raines, Impact of a Content-Rich Literacy Curriculum on Kindergarteners’ Vocabulary, Listening Comprehension, and Content Knowledge, Journal of Educational Psychology (2024)
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].
19 February 2025, 9:00 am - 30 minutes 52 seconds#956: How schools can manage deportation fears, with Delia Pompa
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Delia Pompa, Senior Fellow for Education Policy at MPI’s National Center on Immigrant Integration Policy, joins Mike and David to discuss how the potential threat of immigration agents at school doors is affecting students—and what can be done to keep them coming to class. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a study on the impact of a Hawaii Public Schools policy that raised special education teacher salaries by $10,000.
Recommended content:
- Alexander Russo, “Threat Assesment: Ice raids in schools,” The Grade (February 5, 2025).
- Ileana Najarro, “How Schools Can Navigate Trump’s Immigration Policies,” Education Week (January 23, 2025).
- Liz Willen, “In just one week, Trump created a new culture of anxiety in education,” The Hechinger Report (January 27, 2025).
- Roddy Theobald, Zeyu Xu, Allison Gilmour, Lisa Lachlan-Hache, Elizabeth Bettini and Nathan Jones, The Impact of a $10,000 Bonus on Special Education Teacher Shortages in Hawai‘i, Sage Journals (2025)
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].
12 February 2025, 9:00 am - 34 minutes 6 seconds#955: Critical race theory: The student perspective with Brian Kisida
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Brian Kisida, Associate Professor at the Truman School of Government & Public Affairs at the University of Missouri, joins Mike and David to discuss his recent Education Next article, which reports on what high school students are hearing from their teachers about racism in America. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber shares a study about how test-optional policies at elite universities hurt high-achieving, disadvantaged students.
Recommended content:
- Brian Kisida, Gary Ritter, Jennifer Gontram, J. Cameron Anglum, Heidi H. Erickson, Darnell Leatherwood, and Matthew H. Lee., “Bridging the Divide over Critical Race Theory in America’s Classrooms,” Education Next (November 1, 2024).
- Frederick Hess, “It’s a Crisis! It’s Nonsense! How Political Are K–12 Classrooms?,” Education Next (Winter 2025).
- Bruce Sacerdote, Douglas O. Staiger & Michele Tine, How Test Optional Policies in College Admissions Disproportionately Harm High Achieving Applicants from Disadvantaged Backgrounds, NBER (2025)
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].
5 February 2025, 9:00 am - 30 minutes 21 seconds#954: Should America prioritize its struggling students? with Tim Daly
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Tim Daly, CEO of EdNavigator, joins Mike and David to discuss whether America should refocus its efforts on helping our lowest-performing students and explore the best ways to address this challenge. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber shares a study on how students prepare for tests and the effectiveness of their strategies.
Recommended content:
- Tim Daly, “We’re living through an education depression,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (November 1, 2024).
- Michael J. Petrilli, “Get ready for more bad news from NAEP 2024” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (January 16, 2025)
- Robert Pondiscio, “After a “lost decade,” let’s restore high expectations for students,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (December 12, 2024).
- Fatema Sultana, Richard C. Watkins, Tarek Al Baghal and John Carl Hughes, An Evaluation of Secondary School Students’ Use and Understanding of Learning Strategies to Study and Revise for Science Examinations, Education Sciences (2025)
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].
29 January 2025, 9:00 am - 33 minutes 43 seconds#953: From Biden to Trump: Rank punditry, with Rick Hess
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Rick Hess, the director of education policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, joins Mike and David to discuss education reform (or the lack thereof) during former President Biden’s term and what we might expect from President Trump. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber reviews a study on the implementation of college- and career-readiness policies, focusing on the alignment between career and technical education courses and industry-based certifications.
Recommended content:
- Rick Hess, “Miguel Cardona Is America’s Worst Education Secretary,” American Enterprise Institute (October 25, 2024)
- Dale Chu, “Fault lines in the MAGA coalition and what they mean for education,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (January 16, 2025).
- Matt S. Giani, Madison E. Andrews, Tasneem Sultana, Fortunato Medrano, Curricular-Credential Decoupling: How Schools Respond to Career and Technical Education Policy, Annenberg Institute at Brown University (2025)
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].
22 January 2025, 9:00 am - 32 minutes 28 seconds#952: Unpacking the impact of Wisconsin's Act 10 on teacher pay, with Barbara Biasi
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Barbara Biasi, assistant professor at the Yale School of Management, joins Mike and David to discuss Wisconsin’s Act 10 and its impact on teacher compensation. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber highlights a study on the underrepresentation of certain racial and socioeconomic groups in gifted education.
Recommended reading:
- Barbara Biasi, “Wisconsin’s Act 10, Flexible Pay, and the Impact on Teacher Labor Markets,” Education Next (April 25, 2023).
- Shawn Johnson, “Wisconsin’s Act 10 is back in court. Here’s what to know about the controversial law.,” Wisconsin Public Radio (December 4, 2024).
- Dante D. Dixson, Scott J. Peters, Jonathan A. Plucker, Carolyn M. Callahan, The (Conference) Room Where it Happens: Explaining Disproportional Representation in Gifted and Talented Education, Annenberg Institute at Brown University (2025)
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].15 January 2025, 9:00 am - 33 minutes 43 seconds#951: The future of federal education policy under Trump, with Alyson Klein
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Alyson Klein, assistant editor at Education Week, joins Mike and David to discuss how President Trump could weaken the U.S. Department of Education without dismantling it entirely. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber shares a study examining the impact of early math intervention on student outcomes in Kentucky.
Recommended content:
- Alyson Klein, “How Trump Can Hobble the Education Department Without Abolishing It,” Education Week (December 12, 2024).
- Chester E. Finn, Jr., “Will Trump eliminate the federal role in education or weaponize it?,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (December 12, 2024).
- Michael J. Petrilli, “How much blame does the federal government deserve for America’s mediocre schools?,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (November 21, 2024).
- Zeyu Xu, Umut Özek, Jesse Levin and Dong Hoon Lee, Effects of Large-Scale Early Math Interventions on Student Outcomes: Evidence From Kentucky’s Math Achievement Fund, SAGE Journals (2024)
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].
New for 2025! You can now watch this episode on YouTube.
8 January 2025, 4:00 pm - 33 minutes 3 seconds#950: The best and worst of ed reform in 2024, with Checker Finn
On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Checker Finn, Fordham’s president emeritus—and the original Education Gadfly—joins Mike and David to discuss the best and worst news in education reform in 2024. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber shares the top five research studies of the year.
Recommended content:
Michael J. Petrilli, “How much blame does the federal government deserve for America’s mediocre schools?,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (November 21, 2024).
- Michael J. Petrilli, “The end of MCAS is the end of an era. Now let’s figure out what comes next.,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (December 5, 2024).
- David Griffith and Daniel Buck, “It’s time for tough love to address chronic absenteeism,” Thomas B. Fordham Institute (September 5, 2024).
- Dan Goldhaber and Grace Falken, ESSER and Student Achievement: Assessing the Impacts of the Largest One-Time Federal Investment in K12 Schools, CALDER (2024).
Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our podcast? Send them to Stephanie Distler at [email protected].
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