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How Jason Kindler Uses AI to Create Real Leverage in Mortgage

In the first guest episode of the Mortgage AI Podcast, Frazier interviews mortgage broker owner and producing LO Jason Kindler of First Coast Mortgage Funding (400–500M annually) about what the mortgage industry misunderstands about AI and how to use it for real business leverage. Jason says most people still see AI as prompting for images, are distracted by shiny objects, or are afraid to dabble, and he emphasizes starting with a clear objective. He shares practical use cases: building value-first tools to attract realtors (like a headshot/thumbnail generator and marketing tools for new construction agents), creating operational efficiencies such as an email/notification digest, and developing an AI loan officer assistant to automate borrower communication and document work. They discuss how fast tools are evolving, why “Claude vs ChatGPT” debates are noise, and why communication and relationships become more valuable as AI advances.

00:00 Welcome and First Guest
01:14 Meet Jason Kindler
02:40 AI Misconceptions and Fear
04:20 From Prompts to Leverage
06:44 Using AI for Marketing
10:17 Start Date and Tool Hopping
11:42 Building Realtor Value Apps
14:48 Operational Wins and Cash Flow
16:07 AI Tools Evolving Fast
19:16 Vibe Coding and ROI Focus
21:58 Tool Overload Reality
24:25 Start Small With AI
25:48 Best ROI Automations
29:25 Record Everything Workflow
30:55 Rapid Fire AI Takes
35:03 Next Steps And Wrap

Connect with Jason Kindler

Presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

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Stop Paying $40 to Win $1: Avoid Rent-Seeking With AI in Mortgage

In the first episode of the Mortgage AI Podcast, Frazier introduces the transition from the MLO Project to the Mortgage AI Podcast and explains his goal of helping loan officers use AI to create real leverage, not just surface-level hype. 

He shares a game-theory example from economist Martin Shubik’s 1971 “$1 bill auction,” where rational bidding escalates until people pay far more than the prize a dynamic described as rent-seeking: spending time, money, energy, and effort to chase a reward that can’t justify the cost. 

Frazier warns that many loan officers are doing this with AI tools and subscriptions without clear ROI or customer demand, citing an example of a loan officer whose production declined despite heavy automation efforts. He urges a strategy-first approach, often starting simply with ChatGPT, and previews next episode guest Jason Kindler.

00:00 Welcome to Mortgage AI
00:40 Podcast Mission and Guests
01:23 The 40 Dollars for 1 Dollar Idea
02:26 The Dollar Auction Explained
05:04 Why We Refuse to Lose
06:24 Rent Seeking and AI Hype
08:09 ROI Over Shiny Tools
11:56 AI Moves Fast Stay Focused
13:02 Simple Stack Start with ChatGPT
14:42 Sponsors and Listener Feedback
15:46 Closing and Next Episode

Article mentioned in podcast

Presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

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Episode Zero: Transitioning Growth Notes From The MLO Project to The Mortgage AI Podcast

Frazier announces the final episode of The MLO Project and introduces “episode zero” of The Mortgage AI Podcast, explaining that Growth Notes is pivoting to focus on where the mortgage industry is going and how to create the most impact with AI. Past episodes will remain available, and episode one of the new show launches September 1. Michael will still appear and also run some episodes, sharing firsthand experience from AI projects he’s building, while Frazier drives production and direction. The podcast will emphasize leveraging AI—not just using it—cutting through bad information, noise, and sales agendas, and exploring topics like build vs. buy with guests from mortgage and outside the industry. Frazier invites listener feedback and AI use cases, and thanks sponsors MortgageCon (founding), Summit Lending (broker), Different Coaching (presenter), and Empower LO.

MAP is presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

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Google Ads are not dead.

But the cheap-lead fantasy needs to be.

Michael and Frazier dig into the real state of Google Ads, search intent, and mortgage lead generation in today’s market. This episode picks up right after the “Be the Answer” conversation and looks at the other side of the same coin: paid search, consumer-direct funnels, and what actually makes a lead worth chasing.

Michael breaks down what has changed since the low-cost lead days, why cost per lead is one of the most misleading numbers in mortgage marketing, and how personalization, landing page consistency, and follow-up strategy can make or break a campaign.

Because a $3 lead that never converts is not a deal.

It is a distraction.

And if your funnel does not match the promise that got someone to click in the first place, you are paying for attention you are not ready to convert.

What You’ll Learn

• Why Google Ads are still valuable, but harder than they used to be
• How lead costs have changed from the early consumer-direct days to now
• Why landing page conversion rate matters just as much as cost per click
• How personalization can lower cost per lead and improve response rates
• Why intent matters more than raw lead volume
• What questions LOs should ask before hiring a lead gen partner

Real Talk Quotes:

• “The timeless principle of consumer direct is making sure you’re giving the same experience from top to bottom of funnel.”
• “Cost per lead means diddly squat to me.”
• “Intent is everything in mortgage lead generation.”
• “I could get you 50 cent leads today. They’re all going to be shit.”
• “If they don’t communicate any expectations, that’s probably a red flag.”

Tactical Takeaways

✅ Make sure your ad, landing page, follow-up, and offer all match the same message

✅ Stop judging lead programs by cost per lead alone

✅ Focus on intent, quality, and cost per closed loan

✅ Improve landing page conversion before blaming the ad platform

✅ Use personalization in both the landing page and follow-up experience

✅ Ask any agency what they expect from you in order to make the campaign successful

The Big Idea

Cheap leads are not the goal.

Closed loans are the goal.

Too many loan officers get distracted by the headline number and ignore the things that actually matter:

• Intent
• Conversion
• Follow-up
• Funnel consistency
• Cost per customer

Google Ads still work.

But they only work when the entire system is built to convert the person who clicked.

The Reality Check

The market is already hard.

Why make it harder by:

• Buying low-intent leads because they look cheap
• Sending traffic to generic mortgage pages
• Ignoring the follow-up experience after the form fill

A lead is not just a name, email, and phone number.

It is a person who clicked for a reason.

Your job is to continue that conversation.

Match the message.

Respect the intent.

Track the real cost.

Find out more at Empower LO

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The old internet rewarded people who knew how to get found.

The new one is going to reward the people who become the answer.

Frazier and Michael are back on the MLO Project, and they are coming in direct, tactical, and very clear on where mortgage content is headed next. The conversation centers on Frazier’s shift toward helping loan officers become the answer in their local markets, not just another name trying to rank, post, or compete with the biggest players online.

For years, loan officers played in the search economy.

Google something.

Scroll through results.

Click around.

Hope the answer is somewhere in the mess.

But AI is changing that behavior. Consumers are not just searching anymore. They are asking better questions and expecting direct answers. And if your content is not structured to answer those questions, you are already playing the old game.

This episode breaks down what the “answer economy” means, why hyperlocal content matters, how AEO is different from traditional SEO, and why loan officers have a real land grab opportunity right now if they move before everyone else catches up.

Because you are not going to outspend Zillow, Rocket, Redfin, or the bigs.

But you can out-answer them.

What You’ll Learn

• Why the internet is shifting from the search economy to the answer economy
• Why loan officers need to answer real consumer questions, not just post generic mortgage content
• How hyperlocal blogs can create organic leads without being directly mortgage-related
• Why AEO and SEO are connected, but not the same thing
• How structured question-and-answer content helps both Google and AI understand your authority
• Why this is a “time machine moment” for LOs who want to build local authority early

Real Talk Quotes:

• “You need to be the answer.”
• “You are not going to outspend Zillow.”
• “You’re not going to outgeneralize them.”
• “This is a land grab opportunity.”
• “Don’t talk yourself out of this opportunity.”

Tactical Takeaways

✅ Stop creating generic mortgage content that tries to compete with everyone

✅ Build content around specific questions buyers and movers are already asking

✅ Use AI research tools to uncover hyperlocal questions in your market

✅ Structure your blogs around direct answers, FAQs, and internal linking

✅ Think beyond mortgage topics and become a trusted local authority

✅ Move now while most loan officers are still stuck in old-internet content strategy

The Big Idea

Search is not dead.

But search is changing.

Consumers do not want more results.

They want the answer.

And the loan officers who understand that shift early will have a massive advantage.

Not because they have the biggest budget.

Because they are creating the clearest, most useful answers in their market.

The Reality Check

The market is already hard.

Why make it harder by:

• Playing the same content game as everyone else
• Posting generic loan program content nobody is searching for
• Waiting until the big companies dominate this space too

The opportunity is not to become louder.

It is to become more useful.

Answer the questions.

Own the local market.

Build authority before everyone else realizes what is happening.

Find out more at Empower LO or BrokerFuel.

Presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

MAP is presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

Send us Fan Mail

AI is moving fast.

Most mortgage teams are still trying to figure out what actually matters.

Frazier and Michael sit down with Chris Nielson at the High Table Mastermind in Myrtle Beach to talk about the real role of AI inside a broker business.

Not the hype.

Not the buzzwords.

The actual use cases that buy back time, simplify operations, and help LOs focus on revenue-producing work.

Chris breaks down how his team is using technology to create an unfair advantage, from AI-assisted business plans to open house tools, better follow-up systems, and more consistent customer experiences.

Because the win is not replacing people with AI.

It is removing the busy work so your people can do the human work better.

What You’ll Learn

• Why AI should be used to buy back time, not replace relationships
• How Chris Nielson is using technology to give LOs an unfair advantage
• Why the human element still matters most in mortgage
• How AI can change operations without eliminating the need for great people
• Why leaders should build tools around proven business needs, not random ideas
• How Chris is using AI to create open house tools, business plans, and better customer experiences

Real Talk Quotes:

• “Don’t kill yourself learning technology. Just be ready for the technology that’s coming your way.”
• “I’m using AI in our business to basically buy back our time.”
• “You can’t lose the human element of it.”
• “If it’s something beneath my personal hourly wage, that’s not a money-making activity.”
• “We’re using AI to build tools to solve problems.”

Tactical Takeaways

✅ Use AI to remove busy work so your team can focus on higher-value conversations

✅ Do not automate the parts of the business that require trust, empathy, and human connection

✅ Look for tasks that drain time but do not need a human touch

✅ Build tools around real problems your team faces every day

✅ Give LOs simple technology they can actually use instead of forcing them to become developers

✅ Use AI to create consistency across the customer experience from lead to close

The Big Idea

• AI is not the strategy.
• Leverage is the strategy.
• The winning teams are not trying to turn every LO into a coder.
• They are using technology to remove friction, tighten the process, and give their people more time to do the work that actually creates revenue.
• Better tools only matter if they help your team execute better.

The Reality Check

The market is already hard.

Why make it harder by:

• Letting your team drown in busy work
• Chasing tools without a clear business problem
• Automating the human parts of the loan process

AI will not save a broken business model.

But it can make a strong one faster, cleaner, and more consistent.

Stop chasing every tool.

Start building real leverage.

Find out more at Empower LO or BrokerFuel.

Presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

MAP is presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

Send us Fan Mail

This one is for every broker owner who thinks compliance is something they can deal with later.

Frazier and Michael sit down with Jim Bell, the guy who helps brokers handle the stuff most people want to avoid:

👉 Licensing
👉 Compliance
👉 Call reports
👉 State exams
👉 Information security

And Jim makes one thing very clear.

Compliance does not have to be scary.

But ignoring it absolutely can be.

This episode breaks down what state regulators are looking at right now, why messy data can turn into a real problem, how security is becoming a bigger focus, and why broker owners need actual processes instead of random policies sitting in a folder somewhere.

Because when the examiner shows up, “I thought we had that handled” is not a strategy.

What You’ll Learn

• Why compliance should have a process just like your loan files
• What state exams are focusing on right now
• Why call report errors are creating problems for brokers
• How advertising, rate posts, and social media can trigger compliance issues
• Why information security is becoming a bigger deal in mortgage
• What broker owners need to know about offshore VAs and data access

Real Talk Quotes:

• “Compliance does not have to be super scary.”
• “You need to do the same thing for compliance that you do for the perfect loan process.”
• “It’s not enough to have a policy. You have to prove you are following it.”
• “If a state does not say no, that does not automatically mean they are saying yes.”
• “Hopefully today is the worst I’ll ever be.”

Tactical Takeaways

✅ Build a repeatable compliance process for every file, not just your loan process

✅ Keep your call report data clean, organized, and easy to verify

✅ Review your advertising before posting rates, products, or fee-related claims

✅ Put real information security policies in place, then test and document them

✅ If you use offshore VAs, make sure data access, security, and monitoring are covered

✅ Align with your CPA, attorney, and compliance team before making risky compensation decisions

The Big Idea

• Compliance is not the enemy.
• Disorganization is.
• Most broker owners do not get into trouble because they are trying to do the wrong thing.
• They get into trouble because they never built the process to prove they are doing the right thing.
• And when the state asks for proof...
• Your intentions do not matter nearly as much as your documentation.

The Reality Check

The market is already hard.

Why make it harder by:

• Ignoring compliance until exam season
• Posting ads without proper disclosures
• Letting sensitive borrower data move without controls

A written policy does not protect you if no one follows it.

A clean process does.

Better systems.

Cleaner documentation.

Fewer surprises.

Presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

MAP is presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

Send us Fan Mail

This one is going to make a few LOs uncomfortable.

Frazier and Michael are calling out one of the quietest money leaks in the mortgage business:

👉 Buying tools you don’t fully use
👉 Switching platforms before building a process
👉 Confusing activity with progress
👉 Building “solutions” that don’t actually create revenue

Because here’s the truth:

A new CRM will not fix a lack of discipline.

A custom-built AI tool will not fix weak follow-up.

And spending your weekend vibe coding a calculator does not matter if your pipeline is starving.

This episode breaks down the real cost of tool hopping, half-learning platforms, and chasing every new tech trend before you have built roots in the system already sitting in front of you.

What You’ll Learn

Why switching tools usually exposes a process problem, not a platform problem
 How top producers build roots inside the systems they already use
 Why “I only use 40% of it” is not a reason to jump to something new
 How to measure whether a tech project is actually worth your time
 Why vibe coding can become a distraction for producing loan officers
 How AI is getting easier without requiring every LO to become a developer

Real Talk Quotes:

“If it’s easy for you to switch tools, you probably never put roots down.”
 “You’re probably paying for something right now that you don’t use.”
 “What makes you think the next CRM is going to change your behavior?”
 “The math does not freaking math.”
 “If you are a producing originator trying to get more business in the door, vibe coding is a waste of time.”

Tactical Takeaways

✅ Audit what you are already paying for before buying another platform
 ✅ Commit to one system long enough to actually build a process around it
 ✅ Spend focused time learning the tool before blaming the tool
 ✅ Calculate the real hourly cost before building something just to save a few dollars
 ✅ Use AI to create leverage, not another excuse to avoid prospecting
 ✅ Protect your revenue-generating time: calls, follow-up, referrals, and conversion

The Big Idea

The next tool is not the breakthrough.

The breakthrough is using one tool well enough to build a real system.

Most LOs are not stuck because the software is broken.

They are stuck because they keep starting over.

The Reality Check

The market is already hard.

Why make it harder by:

Buying tools without using them
 Switching platforms every few months
 Calling distraction “innovation”

You do not need another login.

Presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

MAP is presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

Send us Fan Mail

This one pulls no punches.

Frazier and Michael go straight at two of the most common excuses in today’s market:

👉 “I’m not techie”
👉 “I have ADHD”

And they’re not buying either one.

In a market that’s evolving faster than ever, these aren’t just harmless statements—they’re self-imposed ceilings. If you’re using them to justify inaction, you’re already falling behind.

This episode is a reality check on accountability, adaptation, and why the people winning right now aren’t more talented—they’re just less attached to their excuses.

What You’ll Learn

Why “I’m not techie” is no longer a valid excuse in 2026
The difference between a real challenge vs a convenient crutch
How top producers actually use ADHD as an advantage
Why refusing to adapt is the fastest way out of this business
The simple reps that eliminate “tech confusion” forever
How mindset—not tools—is the real bottleneck

Real Talk Quotes:

“If you can use a phone, you’re techie. Stop lying to yourself.”
“You’re not bad at tech—you’re just not willing to practice.”
“ADHD isn’t your limitation. It’s your excuse.”
“Technology isn’t slowing down for you.”
“Don’t want it if you’re not willing to do what it takes.”

Tactical Takeaways

✅ Spend one focused hour learning your CRM or tools—reps remove confusion
✅ Stop labeling yourself—start building capability
✅ If you won’t learn it, hire someone who will
✅ Treat tech like pricing loans—you didn’t know it until you practiced
✅ Use AI as leverage, not an excuse
✅ Eliminate language that limits your growth (“I can’t,” “I’m not”)

The Big Idea

Excuses feel productive…
but they don’t move anything forward.

And in today’s market, the gap between those who adapt and those who don’t is getting wider by the day.

The Reality Check

The market is already hard.

Why make it harder by:

Fighting technology
Avoiding growth
Talking yourself out of progress

Every excuse you stack…
is just more weight you’re carrying uphill.

Presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

MAP is presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

Send us Fan Mail

Most loan officers aren’t failing because they’re not working hard enough.

They’re failing because they’re building a business that doesn’t fit them.

In this episode, Frazier and Michael break down one of the most overlooked problems in the mortgage industry: misalignment between your strengths and your business model.

You’re told to:

•  Prospect like this 
•  Build relationships like that 
•  Post content like them 

But what if none of that actually fits who you are?

This conversation flips the script—forcing you to stop copying success and start building your version of it.

What You’ll Learn

•  Why modeling your business after others can backfire 
•  The difference between growth discomfort vs misalignment
•  How to identify your actual strengths (not what you wish they were) 
•  Why some LOs win quietly—and others burn out loudly 
•  The biggest mistake people make when choosing a business model 
•  How to build a model that actually fits your personality and skillset 

Real Talk Quotes

•  “You’re building someone else’s business and wondering why it’s not working.” 
•  “There’s zero value in trying to fix your weaknesses when your strengths can carry you.” 
•  “Laziness is not a strength. Comfort is not a strategy.” 
•  “The loudest people in the industry aren’t always the best models to follow.” 
•  “You don’t need the right way. You need your way.” 

Tactical Takeaways

✅ Identify your top strengths before choosing a business model
✅ Stop forcing yourself into strategies that feel unnatural
✅ Double down on what you’re already good at
✅ Use tools like Clifton Strengths to gain clarity
✅ Separate fear-based avoidance from true misalignment
✅ Build a business that fits your personality—not someone else’s highlight reel

The Big Idea

There isn’t one way to win in this industry.

There are thousands of ways—but only a few that will work for you.

The problem?

Most people pick a model based on:

•  What looks cool 
•  What’s loud 
•  What someone told them works 

Instead of asking:

“What am I actually built for?”

The Reality Check

If your business feels like a grind every day…

If you’re constantly forcing yourself into activities you hate…

If you’re watching others win and wondering what you’re missing…

You’re probably not broken.

You’re just misaligned.

Why This Episode Matters

The next level in your business isn’t more tactics.

It’s more clarity.

Because when your business aligns with your strengths:

•  You move faster 
•  You burn out less 
•  You win more consistently 

Resources Mentioned

📘 StrengthsFinder 2.0 (includes CliftonStrengths assessment)
📘 The Five Dysfunctions of a Team

Presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

MAP is presented by: DIFRNT Coaching

Founding Sponsor: MortgageCon

Broker Sponsor: Summit Lending

Friends of the Program: Empower LO

Send us Fan Mail

The market isn’t “getting tough.”
 It’s changing.

And most loan officers are still operating like it’s 2021.

In this episode, Frazier and Michael break down the reality of the new economy—where AI, inflation, global conflict, and shifting consumer behavior are rewriting the rules in real time.

No predictions. No false hope.

Just a blunt question:

👉 If the market flipped tomorrow… would your business survive, thrive, or fail?

Because what worked post-COVID won’t work now.
And the ones who figure that out first? They win.

What You’ll Learn

•  Why trying to predict rates is a losing game 
•  The difference between building for hope vs reality
•  How AI will reshape your borrower base (not just your workflow) 
•  Why most business models today are fragile 
•  The real balance between cutting costs vs driving revenue
•  What it actually means to “outsell the shift” 

Real Talk Quotes

•  “Hope is not a strategy. It’s gambling.” 
•  “You can’t control the market—but you can control your output.” 
•  “You don’t cut your way to success.” 
•  “Most people are building for a market that doesn’t exist.” 
•  “You have to outsell the shift. That’s it.” 

Tactical Takeaways

✅ Stop trying to predict rates—build for uncertainty instead
✅ Focus on sales activity, not just optimization
✅ Get lean—but don’t starve your ability to produce
✅ Avoid over-investing in tools that don’t drive revenue
✅ Build a model that works in any market condition
✅ Use AI as leverage—not a distraction

The Big Idea

This isn’t just another cycle.

It’s a reshuffle.

•  Borrowers are changing 
•  Income structures are changing 
•  The workforce is changing 

And if your business depends on “things going back to normal”…you’re already behind.

The Reality Check

You can’t:

❌ Predict the market
❌ Control rates
❌ Wait for conditions to improve

You CAN:

✔ Control your discipline
✔ Control your activity
✔ Control your positioning

Why This Episode Matters

Most loan officers are reacting.

The best ones are preparing.

This episode forces you to look at your business honestly:

👉 Is it built to last… or built to hope?

Because the next shift won’t ask for permission.

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