Andy Burnham is the first Prime Minister on How to Fail. Past leaders have run scared of doing a podcast with ‘fail’ in the title - but not this one. As he says in this conversation: ‘if you’ve not succeeded, you have to understand why it happened, and what you’re going to do about it.’ Wise words from a global leader.

Burnham is now our 7th Prime Minister in 10 years, having won a decisive by-election in Makerfield and having received nominations from 94% of Labour MPs in an unopposed leadership contest.

In this exclusive episode, recorded at No. 10 North, Andy talks about growing up, how his Catholic faith has shaped his outlook (and whether or not he snuck some communion wine as an altar boy). Plus: imposter syndrome, what he learned from his past failed leadership bids, friendships within politics, how his wife responded to his desire to run for PM, the meaning of ‘home’ and whether or not his dad, who suffers from Alzheimer’s, knows his son has become Prime Minister.

A must-listen, even if we do say so ourselves.

IN THIS EPISODE:

00:00 Introduction

03:12 Imposter Syndrome and Authenticity

06:13 Faith and Catholic Roots

08:32 English Degree and Power of Words

10:19 Failed Leadership Bids

16:50 Politics Friendships and Family

21:07 Post Cambridge Job Hunt

25:06 What Home Means

26:26 Hillsborough and Two Britains

27:36 Number 10 North Vision

28:43 Building Safety and Hope

32:49 Radical Yet Sensible Politics

35:35 Fixing Social Care

38:16 Roy and Alzheimer’s

43:10 Faith Power and Farewell

LINKS + MENTIONS:

Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com

WANT MORE?

Ed Miliband - swap.fm/l/YTnZMo8h78DZNf7ZmKnF

Sadiq Khan - swap.fm/l/FcuzDh396Ul76Sc46KRb

Jess Phillips - swap.fm/l/EHHLbfGCH6oBDbOaMhbX

LOVE THIS EPISODE?

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TikTok: @howtofailpod

Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod

Website: www.elizabethday.org

Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails

Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com

Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan and Jen Mistri

Sound Engineer: Ed Gill

DOP: Keith Gubbins

Assistant Camera Op: Charlie Painter

Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson

Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Alex Lawless

Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts

To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Before becoming a No. 1 New York Times bestselling author, and one of the most widely read poets on Instagram, Nikita worked as a cleaner and carer while sharing her poetry online. She moved from New Delhi to Britain in her early twenties to study for a master's degree at the University for the Creative Arts, and felt she ‘disappointed’ her parents and faced repeated rejection and misogyny in the process.

In this episode, she tells Elizabeth about her unusual childhood at sea, growing up in places marked by contested borders, where bomb scares at school felt routine, and the many obstacles she faced throughout her career. She also reflects on the power of poetry to connect us, why myths still resonate today and how writing became both a form of resistance and survival.

IN THIS EPISODE:

00:00 Introduction

03:10 Archivist Heart

04:33 Unheard Voices

07:10 Borders Bomb Scares

09:49 Childhood

11:30 Mythical Power

13:52 Rejection To Breakthrough

25:51 Success Highs and Lows

26:31 Rejection as Return

27:45 Dating and Being Returned

28:11 BuzzFeed Fame Backlash

33:36 Shame and Misogyny Online

34:51 Surviving Internet Pile Ons

39:16 Chronic Pain Finally Named

48:34 Family Grief and Goodbye

LINKS + MENTIONS:

Nikita’s new book, Styx: The River is out this Autumn: www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/Styx-The-River/Nikita-Gill/9781398537194

Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com

WANT MORE?

Michael Rosen - swap.fm/l/TCjvDZaxrZsq4iZRCccm

LOVE THIS EPISODE?

Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts

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Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth:

Instagram: @elizabday

TikTok: @howtofailpod

Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod

Website: www.elizabethday.org

Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails

Elizabeth and Nikita answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com

Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan

Engineer: Matias Torres

Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson

Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Alex Lawless

Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts

To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Miquita Oliver is a podcaster, TV presenter and all-round brilliant woman. She was just 16 when she burst onto our screens co-hosting Channel 4’s cult music show Popworld alongside Simon Amstell. Twenty-five years later, she’s still one of Britain’s most distinctive broadcasters and interviewers. She co-created Miss Me?, with Lily Allen, and now co-hosts it with musician Jordan Stephens of Rizzle Kicks.

You may also know Miquita from the acclaimed BBC series The Caribbean with Andi and Miquita, in which she and her mother, Andi Oliver, travelled to Antigua to reconnect with their family, heritage and identity.

We talk about Miquita surviving the 2004 tsunami in Thailand, the shame she associates with going bankrupt, her struggle with alcoholism in her thirties, love, family, and why she still can't quite conquer her driving theory test. She even opens up about her hopes and fears around motherhood. This is an essential conversation for any one who survived the noughties diet culture or who has grappled with financial hardship. Frank, funny and unexpectedly moving: just like Miquita herself.

IN THIS EPISODE:

00:00 Introduction

02:42 Heritage and Caribbean Roots

04:19 Tsunami Trauma and Healing

07:04 Iconic Co-Hosts and Craft

10:51 Losing Home

13:03 Miss Me Origins and Honesty

15:26 Bankruptcy Shame and Survival

30:58 Weight and Work Comeback

32:02 Second Reinvention Switch

33:01 Money Lessons After Bankruptcy

34:21 Why Aren’t We Taught Tax

35:50 Alcoholism

39:19 Leaving Richmond and Getting Clear

43:12 Motherhood Without Shame

48:03 Driving Test Fail

LINKS + MENTIONS:

Listen to Miss Me? wherever you get your podcasts

Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com

WANT MORE?

Andi Oliver - swap.fm/l/kcBWNXdPsg7LhgcGhvoF

Lily Allen - swap.fm/l/8Otj3tpmbH5SF4xjVHTJ

Neneh Cherry - swap.fm/l/r5YD9vNivp5t6yw1gN1U

Mabel - swap.fm/l/bfOzGVjFFpo13LK7MHUu

LOVE THIS EPISODE?

Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts

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Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth:

Instagram: @elizabday

TikTok: @howtofailpod

Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod

Website: www.elizabethday.org

Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails

Elizabeth and Miquita answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com

Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan

Engineer: Matias Torres

Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson

Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Alex Lawless

Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts

To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What connects Barack Obama, a tabloid sting and Love Islander Alex George? Have a Blue Peter badge if you were thinking of Richard Bacon...

While the broadcaster and producer is perhaps best known for the time his Blue Peter contract was terminated - following a tabloid reveal of his cocaine use - there is so much more to the man. His storied time in television led to him founding a production company and creating numerous TV shows on both sides of the Atlantic. He credits this restless creativity to his ADHD, a diagnosis he only received later in life.

We discuss how neurodivergence fuels him; how the cocaine exposé in the 90s impacted who he is; his relationship with his parents; his failed move to America, landing an interview with Barack Obama... and being tracked by the Secret Service.

Richard talks movingly about being an addict, going to AA, his failure to quit drinking and a near-death experience that could have been averted by a certain doctor on Love Island. Trust me, an hour with Richard Bacon is quite the ride - strap in!

IN THIS EPISODE:

00:00 Intro

03:57 Defining Success Today

04:15 Botox Water And Moisturizer

05:32 Parents And Upbringing

10:05 ADHD Intelligence

11:38 Blue Peter Cocaine Exposé

21:06 Fallout Press And Shame

25:42 Dad Crying in Secret

26:35 Public Humiliation to Resilience

29:01 Trust After Betrayal

30:05 America Move

32:37 Woody Harrelson

33:30 Obama Interview Whiplash

35:36 Work as Identity and Failure

37:53 Addiction Coma and Gratitude

LINKS + MENTIONS:

Richard’s podcast ‘Why Are You More Successful Than Me?’ is available now

Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com

WANT MORE?

Claudia Winkleman – swap.fm/l/Q65AatVGMWgB27BoS0g2

LOVE THIS EPISODE?

Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts

Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories

Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth:

Instagram: @elizabday

TikTok: @howtofailpod

Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod

Website: www.elizabethday.org

Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails

Elizabeth and Richard answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com

Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan

Engineer: Matias Torres

Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson

Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Alex Lawless

Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts

To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It was a privilege to have Bonnie Tyler on How to Fail back in 2024 - and we are heartbroken to hear of her passing today.   

Bonnie was open, funny and moving when she joined me on How to Fail. Total Eclipse of the Heart made her a global star, and at the time of this recording, she managed to squeeze in an hour on How to Fail between gigs and the release of her new album, In Berlin. It was also her first ever podcast interview. 

You might want to bring the tissues for this one, as we have a bit of a weep when Bonnie talks about losing her amazing mum.  We also touched on miscarriage and a childfree life. Plus her failure at elocution lessons, the fascinating story behind her friendship with Tina Turner, performing for Putin (no, really), being a bit of a hoarder and the secret to a 50-year marriage.

We love you Bonnie Tyler, rest in peace. 

Production & Post Production Coordinator: Lily Hambly

Engineer: Gulliver Tickell and Josh Gibbs

Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Carly Maile

How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production.

Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts

To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected]

Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, I sit down with bestselling author‑illustrator Charlie Mackesy, whose work – The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse – has become a global touchstone for kindness, vulnerability and hope.

Yet Charlie’s path was anything but straightforward: he grew up feeling inherently at fault, shaped by the pressures of competitive schooling and the emotional weight of carrying the painful stories readers now share with him.

He talks about failing his driving test four times and the devastating loss of his best friend, Jamie, in a car crash – a grief that propelled him to London and sparked the first moment he began drawing compulsively, with music as solace.

Charlie reflects on not achieving what he calls “conventional success” through marriage or children, the underrated importance of friendship and the power of kindness and self‑compassion.

We also explore his years of not earning a living as an artist – a period he now sees not as failure, but as an essential process. Charlie urges us to create without fear, to let go of perfection and to live fully in the imperfect present.

✨ IN THIS EPISODE:

00:00 Intro

03:44 Feeling at Fault

04:30 Outsider and School Years

05:55 Carrying Others Stories

13:57 Animals and Ducklings

17:08 Driving Test Failure

18:06 Loss and Aftermath

20:05 Grief Fuels Art

23:14 Bottling Emotions

25:07 Remember Mothers Word

28:28 Mum’s Tactile Reading

29:44 Dementia and Story Comfort

33:21 Redefining Success

37:46 Friendship Essentials

40:37 Kindness and Self Talk

46:09 Failing as an Artist

💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER:

“When people tell you their weight, their sadness, anything, their failings, whatever it is they tell you, treat it like they’re giving you gold.”

“I just wrote a book about a mole who likes cake and friends who are journeying in a difficult way with each other… but I think people just want to be heard and seen.”

“None of us get out of here alive, so why not try? What have you got to lose?”

🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS:

Charlie’s latest book, Always Remember: The Boy, the Mole, the Fox, the Horse and the Storm, is available from all major UK booksellers.

Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com

📚 WANT MORE?

Jacqueline Wilson - this episode explores how Jacqueline Wilson’s life and career never followed a predictable path. She didn’t become a bestseller until her 40s and the setbacks she faced helped shape the writer she became. It reflects on the imagination and resilience behind unforgettable characters like Tracy Beaker, her ability to reinvent herself, most recently with The Primrose Railway Children and the creativity and determination that have sustained a career spanning more than 100 books. Ultimately, it’s about a woman interrogating creativity, perseverance and the determination required to keep going: swap.fm/l/PawxjS1dFBaohoKZXfpL

💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE?

Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts

Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories

👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth:

Instagram: @elizabday

TikTok: @howtofailpod

Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod

Website: www.elizabethday.org

Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails

Elizabeth and Charlie answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com

Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan

Engineer: Matias Torres

Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson

Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Alex Lawless

Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts

To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Anastacia has released eight albums and sold over 50 million records worldwide. She has collected a total of 227 gold and platinum certifications and counts Elton John as one of her biggest fans.

In 2000, she released "I'm Outta Love", her debut single, which quickly topped charts worldwide and paved the way for her first album, Not That Kind. This year sees her embark on a major arena tour to celebrate that album’s 25th anniversary.

In this episode we talk about her experience with breast cancer - she underwent a double mastectomy in 2013 after being diagnosed for the second time, dealing with sexism in the music industry and being a mother beyond the traditional sense.

✨ IN THIS EPISODE:

00:00 Intro

02:32 Brodie Joins the Studio

03:15 Day Jobs Before Fame

04:16 Not That Kind at 25

05:31 Finding Her Sound

08:25 Celebrity Gig Stories

11:34 Failures Tech and Glasses

26:04 Dream Glasses Partnership

26:57 Tinted Lenses Origin Story

28:31 Sexism and Image Pressure

31:45 Redefining Femininity

32:32 Cancer Advocacy Fire

37:40 Self Care Birthday Hack

41:44 Writing Singable Songs

44:22 Mothering Beyond Biology

💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER:

Give yourself a self-care birthday - go and get a mammogram

There are so many different ways to be a mother

 So the word cancer, I didn't like it, but I looked at the first three letters

🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS:

Anastacia is celebrating 25 years since the release of her debut album ‘Not That Kind’ and is taking her #NTK2026 on the road

Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com

📚 WANT MORE?

Shania Twain - took us back to her childhood, where she felt she grew up too fast, singing in smoke-filled bars at a young age. There are some real similarities between these two episodes - see what you think: swap.fm/l/JyU54nvq2muyBpNFq3B9

💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE?

Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts

Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories

👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth:

Instagram: @elizabday

TikTok: @howtofailpod

Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod

Website: www.elizabethday.org

Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails

Elizabeth and Anastacia answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com

Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan

Engineer: Matias Torres

Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson

Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Alex Lawless

Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts

To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the FIRST EVER How To Fail Roundtable - a format we enjoyed so much we might just keep it. Today, Elizabeth is joined by broadcaster, actor, author and comedian Mel Giedroyc, and presenting powerhouse AJ Odudu for a candid conversation about body confidence, midlife reinvention and self-acceptance. Brought to you by Dove Whole Body Deodorant, they discuss navigating public scrutiny, aging, personal experiences of the menopause and the importance of friendship. 

Together, they explore how honesty, resilience and everyday rituals can help us feel more confident and comfortable in our own skin.

✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 

00:00 Intro

02:39 Mel on body confidence

05:50 AJ on self appreciation

06:53 Freshness and shoot day hacks

09:08 Mel career and live TV

11:46 Screen scrutiny and representation

18:05 Midlife reinvention begins

22:15 The Power of Invisibility

23:51 Slowing Down to Go Deeper

24:58 AJ on Reinvention and Grief

27:32 Daily Rituals as Survival

28:45 Perimenopause Reality Check

30:47 HRT and Finding Relief

33:46 Owning ‘No’ and the Crone Era

35:42 Women Supporting Women Finale

💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER:

Mel: Body confidence, to me, is literally getting closer to the mirror.

AJ: We don't worship ourselves and honour our bodies in the way that we should. 

Elizabeth: Everything is data acquisition about the thing that went wrong… you can do better next time or make different choices.

🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS:

• Dove Whole Body Deodorant: www.dove.com/uk/collections/whole-body.html
• Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content
• Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com

💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE?

• Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts
• Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories

👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth:

• Instagram: @elizabday
• TikTok: @howtofailpod
• Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod
• Website: www.elizabethday.org
• Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails

Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan  

Engineer: Matias Torres

Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson

Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Alex Lawless

Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts

To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected]

_________________________________________________________________________

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In a career spanning four decades, Dame Kristin Scott Thomas has become one of Britain’s most celebrated actors: Four Weddings and a Funeral, The English Patient, The Horse Whisperer, Tell No One and Slow Horses, alongside acclaimed stage work including her Olivier‑winning performance in The Seagull.

Yet her path was far from straightforward: discouraged at drama school, she moved to Paris as an au pair and rebuilt her training from scratch. Her childhood had already been shaped by profound loss after the deaths of her father and stepfather in near‑identical accidents. She has now channelled these experiences into her directorial debut, My Mother’s Wedding, which she also co‑wrote and stars in, alongside Scarlett Johansson, Sienna Miller and Emily Beecham.

We talk about her early grief, the emotional armour she built as a teenager, the chaotic experience of filming with Prince, making My Mother’s Wedding, the power of women writing women, her unforgettable Fleabag monologue and the joy and clarity she has found in her 60s.

✨ IN THIS EPISODE:

00:00 Intro

03:15 Reclaiming a Tragic Narrative

04:59 Joy in her 60s

06:22 Co Writing With Her Husband

07:03 Animation and Childhood Memory

09:07 Casting and Creative Reunions

12:23 Failure One: Prince Film Debut

17:06 Fame Theater and Radical Roles

24:09 Under the Cherry Moon Lessons

25:28 Failure Two: Teenage Grief

26:24 Childhood Losses

27:58 Eldest Sibling Burden

28:37 Acting Through Sadness

29:59 English Patient Reflections

33:19 Four Weddings Role

36:39 Therapy and Healing

43:41 Grief Advice and Faith

45:45 Football and Identity

49:16 Aging and Gratitude

💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER:

“I wanted to take my past and make it into something positive.”

“If people enjoy what you do, it’s not bad.”

“Having children allowed me to see where I’d gone wrong and where I was beating myself up.”

🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS:

Kristin’s directorial debut, My Mother’s Wedding, is now available in UK cinemas and streaming platforms such as Amazon Prime and Apple TV

Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com

📚 WANT MORE?

Rosamund Pike - this episode explores how her career has resisted tidy narratives, how she’s navigated fame without reading reviews for 25 years and how her so‑called “failures” – not getting married, struggling with fear, raising two sons while working, even a disastrous attempt at cooking a rabbit – have shaped her. It’s ultimately about a woman interrogating identity, courage and the stories she tells herself:http://swap.fm/l/tePOA4HZ2PoaBBwudnv7

💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE?

Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts

Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories

👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth:

Instagram: @elizabday

TikTok: @howtofailpod

Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod

Website: www.elizabethday.org

Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails

Elizabeth and Kristin answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com

Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan

Engineer: Matias Torres

Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson

Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Alex Lawless

Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts

To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What draws an award-winning writer to the darkest corners of human behaviour? Patrick Radden-Keefe is a New York Times bestselling author and staff writer at The New Yorker. He is known for his acclaimed books, including Empire of Pain and Say Nothing - the latter was adapted into a BAFTA and Emmy-nominated drama series.

Radden Keefe’s latest book, London Falling, investigates the life and untimely death of Zac Brettler, a North London teenager drawn into the criminal underworld. In this conversation, Patrick reflects on why he is so fascinated by “the bad guys”, how the extraordinary story behind London Falling unfolded and his unconventional writing process.

Patrick also talks about the years of rejection that preceded his success and how it has shaped him. I hope you enjoy this conversation with one of the world’s finest narrative journalists (oh, and Patrick). JUST KIDDING.

✨ IN THIS EPISODE:

03:25 Why He Writes Bad Guys

05:12 London Falling Origin Story

08:01 Reinvention and Secret Lives

10:06 Holocaust Legacy and Lying

14:58 Carrying Grief and First Failure

31:47 Parents Read First Drafts

33:13 Family Themes And Fixations

34:22 Chasing The New Yorker Dream

36:49 Rejection Resentment And Drive

41:14 What To Leave Out

43:28 Research Outline

48:13 Screenplays That Never Get Made

50:51 Growth Outside Comfort Zone

💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER:

I tend to look at people, even people who do pretty monstrous things, as human beings... The question for me is always, how did they get there? And usually they got there by degrees.

I'd like to think that the sense of who you are as a person isn't contingent on the dopamine hit of people telling you you've done a good job.

🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS:

London Falling is out now: www.patrickraddenkeefe.com

Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com

📚 WANT MORE?

Jon Ronson - another journalistic hero of mine, Jon talked about his love of storytelling, what being bullied at school taught him and why truth-telling is vital: swap.fm/l/3Uwm2GCNCBpHQVZc6dwr

Malcolm Gladwell - on being mediocre at running, failing to be a friend and whether prejudice can ever be a force for good: swap.fm/l/CxIsEyNtJcyXROPZQCvh

💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE?

Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts

Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories

👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth:

Instagram: @elizabday

TikTok: @howtofailpod

Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod

Website: www.elizabethday.org

Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails

Elizabeth and Patrick answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com

Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan

Engineer: Matias Torres

Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson

Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Alex Lawless

Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts

To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected]

_________________________________________________________________________

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

*triggers: This episode includes discussion of depression and mental health crises.

In 1997 Natalie Imbruglia released her first single, Torn, which sold more than 4 million physical copies worldwide. In her homeland of Australia, it became the most played song on the radio, being played an average of 75 times a day over the two decades following its release.

She landed a part in Neighbours in 1985, when she was just 16 years old, and stayed on the hugely popular soap for two years before moving to London. Her first album, Left Of Middle, went multi-platinum. Five further albums followed but it wasn’t always easy: in 2009 she took a six-year break from music to concentrate on acting, appearing on stage and in film and also as a judge on the Australian X Factor. Since then, she has released further music, become a mother to a son and won The Masked Singer.

Now she returns with her seventh studio album, Algorithm.

We talk about how writing this album coincided with the perimenopause, reflect on her time in Neighbours, her experience of dating apps, going through solo IVF to have her son, the sexism she faced in the music industry, plus the wisdom she has found in her 50s.

✨ IN THIS EPISODE:

03:08 Making Natalie’s new album Algorithm

04:55 Neurodivergence and Menopause

08:59 Death Scrolling

10:47 Dropped by Label

16:07 Neighbors and Rejection

25:35 Dating in Your 30s

27:15 Rejection Builds Clarity

27:37 Choosing Love Over Biology

30:47 IVF Reality Check

34:13 Single Mother Headlines

35:48 Manifesting With Lists

38:11 Living After Torn

43:53 Sexism and Aging Power

💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER:

It doesn't matter who it is, never give your power over to another human being. Never think somebody knows you better than you know yourself.

I'm quite good at being the underdog. I find it much scarier to be at the top, waiting to fall off a pedestal.

Sometimes the universe is working for you, it just doesn't feel that way at the time.

🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS:

Natalie’s latest album, ‘Algorithm’ is to be released on 4th September. Pre-order here: republicofmusic.lnk.to/algorithm

Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content

Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com

📚 WANT MORE?

Shania Twain - this episode reflects on a childhood marked by poverty, early fame, loss and self-doubt: swap.fm/l/JyU54nvq2muyBpNFq3B9

Lily Allen - talks about failing to be famous, body image, children, marital breakdown, addiction and songwriting: swap.fm/l/8Otj3tpmbH5SF4xjVHTJ

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