In this conversation, I have the pleasure of speaking with Dr Elaine Kasket - a UK-based Cyberpsychologist and Chartered Counselling Psychologist whose work explores how technology reshapes our wellbeing, relationships, work and identity.

Bringing a rich and deeply humanistic lens to the psychological, philosophical and social dilemmas we face in an age of AI, Elaine’s work explores not only the idea of digital permanence (what happens to our data beyond our death), but also how we can retain agency and humanity at a time in which so much of our lives are becoming quantified and digitised.

Through her books, talks, keynotes and clinical practice, Elaine challenges prevailing narratives of helplessness in the face of technology and helps individuals and organisations build more meaningful lives with and through tech.

She has authored two books. The first, All the Ghosts in the Machine: The Digital Afterlife of Your Personal Data (Robinson, 2019), is an exploration of how the online dead affect the privacy, finances and experiences of the living in surprising and evolving ways. The second book, Reset: Rethinking Your Digital World for a Happier Life (Elliott & Thompson, 2024), examines how we use — and sometimes misuse — technology across our personal and professional lives, and offers practical and values-driven ways to make smarter, more self-aware digital choices.

A regular contributor across international media and podcasts, Elaine is a renowned keynote speaker and storyteller, and she has collaborated with audiences and organisations worldwide, from Netflix, TEDx and the House of Beautiful Business, to the NHS, the Edinburgh Fringe and Latitude.

Having served five years as an Honorary Professor of Psychology at the University of Wolverhampton in recognition of her work on life in the digital age, Elaine is currently Visiting Professor at the Centre for Death and Society (CDAS) at the University of Bath. She was formerly a full-time academic and Head of Department for the Doctorate in Counselling Psychology at Regent’s University, and she is an Associate Fellow of the British Psychological Society, a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, and a Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy.

I was introduced to Elaine through a mutual friend and was absolutely captivated by her capacity to the complexity of many of the challenges and opportunities we face in this current moment. This was a compelling, thoughtful, heart-breaking, mind-expanding conversation, and I hope that you find it as enriching as I did.

BOOKS

• Reset: Rethinking Your Digital World for a Happier Life – Elaine Kasket (https://www.elainekasket.com/reboot)
• All the Ghosts in the Machine: The Digital Afterlife of Your Personal Data – Elaine Kasket (https://www.elainekasket.com/all-the-ghosts)
• The Atlas of AI – Kate Crawford (https://katecrawford.net/home)

WEBSITES

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/elaine-kasket/
• https://www.drelainekasket.com/
• https://www.elainekasket.com/

CHAPTERS

03:11 Free Will vs. Determinism in the Digital Age

05:58 The Impact of Technology on Relationships

08:59 AI Companions and the Loss of Reciprocity

11:54 The Nature of Therapy in the Age of AI

14:59 Experiential Avoidance and Psychological Flexibility

18:01 The Role of Technology in Human Connection

21:10 Seeking Meaning in a Technological World

24:00 The Dangers of a Flattened Existence

27:10 The Machine Stops: A Cautionary Tale

30:02 Rewilding and the Human Condition

35:02 The Philosophical Roots of Dominion Over Nature

39:07 AI's Impact on Climate Change Awareness

43:07 The Struggle for Emotional Control and Human Connection

47:03 The Role of AI in Shaping Work Culture

51:11 Navigating the Challenges of Capitalism and AI

55:08 The Developmental Arc of Technology and Human Connection

In today’s conversation, I speak with Low Kee Hong – Creative Director at Factory International, a pioneering Creative Company and Charity that commissions, produces, and presents a year-round programme of cultural opportunities and extraordinary artistic experiences, driven by innovation and a focus on sustainable futures.

Responsible for overseeing the work of the Creative Engagement programme which brings opportunities for people from all backgrounds, ages and from all corners of the city of Manchester, where they’re based, Low also leads the international department in collaborating with venues, festivals and other cultural organisations around the world.

Having previously worked as Artistic Director and General Manager of the Singapore Arts Festival, and the Founding Director and General Manager of the Singapore Biennale and Associate Artistic Director of TheatreWorks (Singapore), Low also headeded up the Theatre for Performing Arts at the West Kowloon Cultural District Authority in Hong Kong, where he was responsible for formulating the district’s artistic direction and strategies for Contemporary Performance, Dramatic and Theatre Arts.

Now, you may be asking yourself why, on a show that principally explores our relationship with one another, with technology and with the living world, I’m interviewing an Artistic Director… Well, as the challenges we face increase in complexity and unpredictability, I believe that it is precisely our capacity to think pluralistically, laterally and creatively, that will help us to shift the initial conditions from which we operate, so that more fruitful futures might emerge.

I believe that this is particularly true when it comes to redefining how we imagine, develop and deploy public-facing technology. As the dynamics that underpin our current media systems serve to fracture the social fabric and capture our algorythmically-influenced imaginations, it is often the artist – in all their forms – that can dance amidst the chaos, swim against the tide of homogeneity, and whisper into being alternative futures that unfold far beyond our conceptions of the beaten track.

I first met Low at an IBTM travel conference that we were both speaking at in Barcelona last year, and I was so captivated by his thinking and approach that I just had to invite him onto the show. I hope you revel in ths conversation as much as I did.

WEBSITES

• https://factoryinternational.org/
• https://www.onassis.org/people/low-kee-hong-uk
• https://gdi.ch/en

CHAPTERS

7:26 The Power of Art as a Change Maker

11:24 Cultural Memory and Indigenous Knowledge

12:25 Sensory Expansion

18:19 Artistic Collaboration and Community Engagement

32:20 Community Engagement

33:54 Art and Governance

43:33 Financial Sustainability in the Arts

49:18 Corporate Partnerships

51:27 Artistic Perversity

54:32 AI and Creativity

61:31 Conclusion and Future Vision

Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Professor Gerd Gigerenzer – a world-leading psychologist, author and internationally acclaimed expert in decision-making, risk literacy, and bounded rationality.

Formerly a Professor of Psychology at the University of Chicago and John M. Olin Distinguished Visiting Professor at the School of Law at the University of Virginia, Professor Gigerenzer has reshaped how we understand human intuition, heuristics, and the ways in which we make decisions under uncertainty.

A long-time director at the Max Planck Institute for Human Development with decades of groundbreaking research to his name, he is currently director of the Harding Center for Risk Literacy at the University of Potsdam and vice-president of the European Research Council (ERC).

Having trained managers, doctors, and U.S. federal judges in dealing with risks and uncertainties, Professor Gigerenzer has received a litany of awards, from the German Psychology Prize and Communicator Prize, to the award for the best journal article in the behavioral sciences by the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

Switzerland’s prestigious Duttweiler Institute has named Gigerenzer one of the 100 most influential thinkers in the world, and it is there – at their International Trends Day – that I met him, sharing a stage exploring our perpectives around the impacts of digital noise, the current use of LLMs, and how we might more wisely navigate an increasingly complex and uncertain world.

His talk was one of my highlights of the event, and so it is with great pleasure that I share this conversation with you today.

BOOKS

https://www.gerd-gigerenzer.com/books

WEBSITES

• https://www.gerd-gigerenzer.com/
• https://www.mpg.de/en
• https://www.hardingcenter.de/en
• https://erc.europa.eu/homepage

CHAPTERS

02:32 Technological Paternalism and Human Agency

05:36 The Role of Intuition in Decision Making

08:45 The Impact of Algorithms on Human Interaction

11:35 Human Intelligence vs. Algorithms

14:48 Understanding Stable and Unstable Worlds

17:43 The Risks of Predictive Policing

20:33 Deep Fakes and Disinformation

23:42 The Accountability Shift in AI

26:36 The Influence of Tech Oligarchs

29:27 Changing the System for Better Leadership

32:37 Reclaiming Agency in a Digital World

35:34 Hope for the Future of Digital Literacy

36:32 The Cost of Freedom in Social Media

38:38 Conditioning and the Need for Critical Thinking

41:28 Mental Health and Cognitive Challenges in the Digital Age

45:24 The Shift from Extrinsic to Intrinsic Motivation

51:36 Rediscovering Joy Beyond Screens

56:39 The Future of Technology and Human Connection

Today I have the distinct pleasure of speaking with Professor Sue Black, OBE - a multi-award-winning computer scientist, social entrepreneur, and technology evangelist with over 25 years of experience driving change at the intersection of technology, equity, and public policy.

Recognised as one of the Forbes World Top 50 Women in Tech and in the Top 20 Most Influential Person in UK Tech, Sue’s work spans bias in AI, digital inclusion, culture change, and community transformation.

She has advised the UK government on digital skills, founded TechUPWomen to support underserved women into tech careers, and was the pioneering mind who led the successful campaign to save Bletchley Park.

Currently serving as a trustee at Comic Relief and the Institute for the Future of Work, Sue’s mission is to ensure technology works for everyone, not just the few. And it is precisely her focus and work around responsible AI, inclusive leadership, and tech for good that inspired me to speak with her today.

WEBSITES

• https://sueblack.co.uk/
• https://www.skool.com/women-in-tech-power-network/about
• https://www.techup.ac.uk/contact-us/

CHAPTERS

05:01 The Role of Technology in Society

10:00 Education and Technology Literacy

17:00 The AI Opportunity Gap

23:11 Navigating AI and Technology Myths

27:07 Harnessing Positive Technologies for Everyday Life

27:31 Understanding Gender Disparities in AI Adoption

28:25 Skepticism vs. Adoption: A Deeper Look at AI

30:25 The Importance of Diversity in Tech Development

32:23 Breaking Down Silos: The Value of Intergenerational Perspectives

34:33 Using Technology for Pro-Social Outcomes

35:53 Empowering Women in Tech: Challenges and Solutions

41:50 The Need for Diverse Leadership in Tech

42:13 Creating a Diverse Board for Ethical Tech Decisions

43:37 Current Focus: Empowering Women in Technology

In this episode, I speak with Carl Miller: an author, journalist and researcher at Demos, a London think tank where he co-founded the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media in 2012. A renowned speaker, Carl has given address in Parliament, to NATO, at TED, the Web Summit, the Hay Literary Festival, Oxford University, the British Academy, the Mayor of London, Latitude and many more.

As a journalist, he has written on everything from living in a political technology commune and visiting an information warfare base, to meeting fake news merchants in Kosovo. He’s conducted longterm, immersive investigations into the digital democrats in Taiwan, hackers in Las Vegas and assassination markets on the dark net, and he's the host of the multi-award-winning, 7-country #1 podcast, Kill List.

The author of several books, including The Death of the Gods: The New Global Power Grab (which won the 2019 Transmission prize), Carl has led over 40 major projects to research the digital world. He highlighted the influence of conspiracy theories in 2010, called for digital literacy education in 2012. He warned about the rise of crypto-currencies in 2013, and how the digital world was transforming policing. With the former Director of GCHQ, he coined 'SOCMINT', social media intelligence.

In 2015 he led a team monitoring the rise of digital politics over the General Election. In 2016 he worked on using machine learning to measure how social media was targeting minority groups for abuse. From 2019 onwards, he has focussed on confronting the rise of shadowy forms of influence, disinformation and information warfare.

And this, dear listeners, is what we’ll be exploring today…

WEBSITES

• www.carlmiller.co
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlmiller/
• http://www.demos.co.uk/people/carl-miller
• https://demos.academia.edu/CarlMiller
• www.demos.co.uk

BOOKS & RESOURCES

Book: The Death of The Gods – Carl Miller (https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/436073/the-death-of-the-gods-by-carl-miller/9781786090126)

Writing: https://carl-miller-website.webflow.io/writing

Podcast: Kill List (Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/kill-list/id1769072368 / Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0MKZSB39sSnSYHzey11SPF)

CITED

Demos Waves Project - https://demos.co.uk/project/waves/

Estonia's X-Road Digital Identity System - https://e-estonia.com/solutions/interoperability-services/x-road/

CHAPTERS

06:06 The Role of Technology in Society

11:18 Information Warfare and AI

17:00 Civic Engagement and Digital Literacy

25:41 The Challenge of Digital Identity and Security

28:17 The Evolution of Internet Trust and Fraud

30:28 The Implications of AI on Identity and Trust

33:53 Innovations in Digital Democracy: The Waves Project

Today I’m speaking with Richard Gerver - one of the foremost experts on change and human leadership, described by the late Sir Ken Robinson as, “One of the clearest and most passionate voices for radical change both in education and in business.”

A best-selling author, educator and keynote speaker, Richard’s work draws upon a deep understanding and compassionate interpretation of change and human potential, and – as Sir Robinson describes – “In his compelling presentations and books, he takes his powerful message of hope and possibility to educators, business leaders and policy makers around the world.”

The mind behind two hugely successful courses on LinkedIn Learning, Richard is also the author of four renowned books – Change, Simple Thinking, Education: A Manifesto for Change and Creating Tomorrow's Schools Today – guides that draw upon his experience as an educator and consultant to businesses and organisations, to help readers think in new ways about the people we know and the places we work in.

I first met Richard at the World Business Forum last year in Madrid, where we talked about his forthcoming book, Curiosity, which is due out in Spring 2027. We hit if off immediately and I just had to invite him onto the show to explore the many themes about which we are both deeply passionate. This was a moving conversation for me, and I hope you enjoy it.

SUMMARY

Richard Gerver and Nathalie Nahai explore the depths of human psyche, change, curiosity, and collective resilience. They discuss how uncertainty, fear, and the need for certainty shape our world, and how storytelling, vulnerability, and micro-activism can foster hope and transformation.

WEBSITE

https://richardgerver.com/

BOOKS & RESOURCES

Books:https://richardgerver.com/books/

CHAPTERS

00:00 The Global Human Psyche: Uncertainty and Fear

06:23 The Fragility of Certainty: Learning from Failure

11:59 Risk and Growth: The Importance of Taking Chances

19:27 Personal Journeys: Adversity and Resilience

23:38 Curiosity: The Key to Navigating Change

34:58 Questioning vs. Condemnation: The Power of Curiosity

36:07 The Dignity of Disagreement

37:35 The Power of Storytelling in Change

41:43 Micro Activism and Personal Responsibility

44:28 The Renaissance of Humanity

48:14 Navigating Darkness Together

52:40 The Role of Shame in Human Connection

58:56 Empowering Change Through Responsibility

To kick off this new season, I’m speaking with Dr Paul Goldsmith, a neuroscientist and practising neurologist with a background in founding and building life sciences companies across both the drug and digital therapeutics space, in addition to NHS systems and strategic experience, clinical networks, vanguard and clinical senate roles.

Having studied natural sciences at the University of Cambridge and gained a clinical scholarship from the University of Oxford, Paul undertook postgraduate medical training in Oxford, at the National Hospital for Neurology in London, and in Cambridge, and went on to take a Ph.D. in developmental neuroscience at Cambridge, which lead to an interest in evolutionary medicine. A visiting professor at Imperial College London in the Institute of Global Health Innovation, he is also the author of a new book, “The Evolving Brain: How to thrive in a world we weren’t meant for”, a guide that draws from his clinical to offer compassionate, practical insights on the evolutionary origins of our brain and how we can best use it to thrive in our daily lives.

Given the increasing complexity and turbulence we face today, this felt like a poignant place from which to open this series of conversations, and I hope you find this episode as uplifting, companionate and insightful as I did.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Paul Goldsmith and Nathalie Nahai explore the intricate connections between the human psyche, the evolving brain, and the challenges of modern life. They discuss the importance of understanding our place within a larger system, the role of social goals in happiness, and the impact of meaningful relationships on well-being. They examine the complexities of modern existence, including the decline in fertility rates, the influence of social media on loneliness, and the significance of community and shared experiences. Finally, Paul and Nathalie emphasise the need for self-compassion, the power of physical activity, and the potential for finding beauty in adversity.

WEBSITE

https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-goldsmith-624241/

BOOKS

The Evolving Brain: How to thrive in a world we weren’t meant for (https://www.hachette.co.uk/contributor/dr-paul-goldsmith/)

CHAPTERS

00:00 The Global Human Psyche

02:39 Understanding the Evolving Brain

05:40 The Complexity of Modern Goals

08:29 Navigating Social Dynamics and Relationships

11:40 The Role of Melancholy in Goal Pursuit

14:38 The Impact of Modern Society on Fertility and Loneliness

17:35 Finding Meaning and Belonging in Life

33:16 The Quest for Validation in Modern Life

36:21 Understanding Neurodivergence and Focus

40:50 Auditing Personal Goals and Life Purpose

44:40 The Power of Connection and Community

56:25 The Role of Ego in Our Perception of Reality

Hello, and welcome to this special Solstice episode of the podcast.

It’s been a while since the last show, and that’s because this year has been a bit of a whirlwind for me. I was hosting over the summer, the nascent season of a new show called “I am not creative” for Do Radio, and I’ve since been on the road for a solid three months giving talks on how we might navigate this age of AI and automation with greater criticality, agency, humanity and discernment. I’ve shared stages with Brené Brown, Adam Grant and Grace Blakeley, and I’ve even dared an auditorium full of 1300 business people to sing together at a moment’s notice, and joined futurists in conversations around longevity and the future of the human race.

I’ve also been spending time painting towards a solo exhibition which will be launching in London in late Autumn 2026, and I’ve been back in the studio recording a third album with Mercury nominated producer, Drew Horley, down in Somerset.

It’s been a really bonkers year, full of intensity, beauty, challenges and surprises, and so I’m delighted to be rejoining you once again for this touchstone, and what has become a cherished tradition of reflection, contemplation, and looking ahead to the year to come.

In this conversation, I rejoin Manda Scott and Della Duncan for a collaborative midwinter offering from myself, Accidental Gods, and the Upstream Podcast.

From the questions we’re holding to the highlights we’re taking from the year, this is a ritual that I’ve come to really look forward to, and I hope you find it as uplifting as I do.

To introduced my companions…

Manda Scott is a novelist, podcaster and smallholder. Formerly a veterinary surgeon, Manda’s novels have been shortlisted for the Orange Prize, the Edgar and the Saltire Award and has won the McIlvanney Prize. She is host of the Accidental Gods podcast, which showcases individuals and organisations at the emerging edge of our world, to set the foundation for a future we’d be proud to leave to the generations that come after us.

We’re joined by Della Duncan, a Renegade Economist based in the San Francisco Bay Area. She is a co-host of the Upstream Podcast, a Right Livelihood Coach, a faculty member at the California Institute of Integral Studies, a Senior Fellow at the London School of Economics, a founding member of the California Doughnut Economics Coalition, and the designer and co-facilitator of the Cultivating Regenerative Livelihood Course at Gaia Education.

This is always a special episode for me, and I’m very grateful to be able to dive into conversation with these two brilliant women. I hope you find it inviting and inspiring, and I wish you a peaceful Winter Solstice and a fruitful new year

Hello and welcome to a special episode of In Conversation with Nathalie Nahai – the podcast that explores our relationship with one another, with technology and with the animate world.

On this rare occasion, I have the pleasure of interviewing two friends of the podcast – Manda Scott and Rupert Read – about their powerful, compelling and practical new book, Transformative Adaptation.

A selection of essays by leading practitioners and pioneers this book lays out approaches for adaptation that work with, not against nature, and it is a theory and a practice, a community and an attitude, designed to support us in imagining and creating a flourishing future even in the jaws of adversity.

Rupert Read is an eco-philosopher, academic, author, campaigner, UK Green politician, and environmental activist. Having been a key spokesperson for the Extinction Rebellion movement, Rupert now dedicates his time to the Climate Majority Project as its Co-Director.

Manda Scott is a Thrutopian novelist, podcaster and smallholder. Formerly a veterinary surgeon, Manda’s novels have been shortlisted for the Orange Prize, the Edgar and the Saltire Award, and she has won the McIlvanney Prize. She is host of the popular Accidental Gods podcast, which showcases individuals and organisations at the emerging edge of our world, to set the foundation for a future we’d be proud to leave to the generations that come after us.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Nathalie Nahai, Manda Scott, and Rupert Read explore the themes of collective awakening to climate risks, the importance of imagination in envisioning a flourishing future, and the vital role of art and creativity in shaping narratives. They discuss the necessity of community action for transformative adaptation and the significance of acknowledging despair as a pathway to empowerment. The conversation emphasises learning from the Global South's experiences and the evolving consciousness among politicians regarding climate realities. Ultimately, they call for individuals to recognise their power to influence change and to build a shared narrative of possibility for a sustainable future.

BOOK

• US edition of TrAd: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/801723/transformative-adaptation-by-edited-by-rupert-read-and-morgan-phillips-with-manda-scott/
• UK edition of TrAd: https://www.permanentpublications.co.uk/port/transformative-adaptation/

WEBSITES

• Edge Cities: https://www.edgecity.live/
• Edge City in California: https://www.edgeesmeralda.com/
• Our House (creating civil charters by Peoples’ Assemblies): https://ourhouseuk.org/
• OPUS in Sheffield: https://www.weareopus.org/

Rupert Read

• https://rupertread.net/
• https://climatemajorityproject.com/

Manda Scott

• https://mandascott.co.uk/
• https://accidentalgods.life/
• https://thrutopia.life/

CHAPTERS

00:00 Awakening to Collective Realisation

01:55 The Role of AI in Society

05:10 Imagining a Flourishing Future

08:11 Transformative Adaptation and Climate Crisis

11:06 The Power of Narrative and Imagination

14:00 Creating Alternative Futures

17:07 The Role of Artists in Change

20:10 Building a Shared Vision

23:03 Gathering Spaces for Creative Collaboration

35:29 Reimagining Storytelling for a New Era

38:15 The Role of Emotional Literacy in Media

39:15 Welcoming Our Shadows for Healing

42:13 Embracing Despair as a Path to Growth

47:38 The Interplay of Love and Fear

51:21 Integrating Inner Conflicts for Collective Action

56:33 Transformative Adaptation: A Hopeful Future

For the final episode of the season, I have the distinct pleasure of being in conversation with the renowned author, activist and friend of the podcast, Rob Hopkins.

Having interviewed him about his powerful book,  From What Is to What If: Unleashing The Power Of Imagination To Create The Future We Want in episode 87, I had to invite him to return to the show to dive into his new, eagerly awaited sequel: How to Fall in Love with the Future: A Time Traveller’s Guide To Changing The World.

To give you a bit of background, Rob is the co-founder of Transition Town Totnes and the Transition Network, he has authored several titles including The Transition Handbook, The Transition Companion, The Power of Just Doing Stuff, and 21 Stories of Transition , and he presents the podcast series From What If to What Next.

In 2012, he was voted one of the Independent’s top 100 environmentalists and was on Nesta and the Observer’s list of Britain’s 50 New Radicals. Rob has also appeared on BBC Radio 4’s “Four Thought” and “A Good Read”, in the French film phenomenon Demain and its sequel Après Demain, and has spoken at TEDGlobal and three TEDx events.

An Ashoka Fellow, Rob also holds a doctorate degree from the University of Plymouth and has received two honorary doctorates from the University of the West of England and the University of Namur. In November 2022 he was made an Honorary Citizen of Liège in Belgium by the Mayor of the city. Rob runs ‘Imagination Catalyst’ trainings for organisations as diverse as Balenciaga, London Marathon Group, local councils and Museum Booster, he’s collaborated with musician Mr Kit on a project called Field Recordings from the Future, due out in 2025, and he is a keen gardener and a director of Totnes Community Development Society, the group behind Atmos Totnes, an ambitious, community-led development project.

Now, this season has been focusing heavily on AI – its impact in the world, how we develop it, how we approach it, discerning fact from fiction, uncovering some of the more existential questions, and figuring out how to chart a path forward that gives us back our sense of agency, creativity, imagination, and collective power. And so for me it felt really fitting to land this series speaking to Rob about his extraordinary ways in which we can really breathe ourselves into a future that is flourishing, beautiful and just. And to take that as a starting place, the fertile ground, from which to anchor any imagination around what technology and other aspects of life, could bring.

...

A brief note: When we recorded this episode, there were road-works being carried out in the street outside - and while we’ve done our best to reduce the noise, I’m including a note here to flag that the audio drop outs in my voice are not due to Caro C’s work, but are the result of pre-editing carried out by someone else. I hope you’ll enjoy the episode nonetheless!

...

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Rob Hopkins and Nathalie Nahai explore the importance of imagination and longing in activism. They discuss the need for community, the skepticism towards AI, and the power of collective action in creating a flourishing future. Rob shares insights from his book, 'How to Fall in Love with the Future,' emphasizing the significance of storytelling and social technologies in shaping a better world. The dialogue highlights the necessity of nurturing imagination and the potential for human beings to enact extraordinary change.

WEBSITES

• http://transitionnetwork.org/
• https://www.robhopkins.net/
• https://www.atmosfortotnes.org/
• https://plumvillage.org/

BOOKS

• How to Fall in Love with the Future: A Time Traveller’s Guide To Changing The World (https://www.robhopkins.net/the-book/)
• From What Is to What If: Unleashing The Power Of Imagination To Create The Future We Want – Rob Hopkins (https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/from-what-is-to-what-if-paperback/)
• Transition Handbook (https://amzn.to/3IHIn7e)
• The Transition Companion (https://amzn.to/4597gjN)
• The Power of Just Doing Stuff (https://amzn.to/45gJe7A)
• 21 Stories of Transition (https://archive.transitionnetwork.org/resources/21-stories-of-transition-pdf-to-download/)

PODCAST

From What If to What Next (https://www.patreon.com/fromwhatiftowhatnext)

MUSIC

Field Recordings from the Future (https://www.robhopkins.net/field-recordings-from-the-future/)

CHAPTERS

04:59 The Role of AI in Our Future

09:40 The Importance of Longing and Imagination

19:26 Activism and the Cultivation of Longing

33:47 Cultivating a Positive Mindset

36:14 Imagining a Better Future

37:32 Experiencing the Present

41:00 The Power of Imagination

47:31 Field Recordings from the Future

55:42 Finding Hope in Difficult Times

Today I have the pleasure of speaking with a dear friend and one of the most extraordinary Realist Painters of our generation, Carl de Jager.

Born and raised in South Africa, Carl is a fine artist and co-founder of The Realist Painter, a project that delivers painting and drawing workshops across multiple European locations including Greece, Spain, Cyprus, and Austria, distilling years of classical training into highly focused learning experiences. 

Having originally obtained a Bachelor of Arts with a major in Art History, Carl went on to have a successful career as a software engineer in Melbourne, and he later pivoted to pursue classical drawing and painting at the prestigious Barcelona Academy of Art.

A well loved and respected teacher and program coordinator, delivering instruction from fundamental drawing techniques to advanced painting methods, Carl also oversees specialised courses including Light and Form and Portrait programs.

I actually had the pleasure of being taught by Carl in person while studying at BAA, an experience which (as some of you may know), fundamentally changed the course of my life – prompting a change in country, an expanding of community, and a shifting of priorities that gave rise not only to this podcast and the Salons, but to my painting and music-making that are now at the heart of my daily life.

I’ve been wanting to bring Carl onto the show for a long while, especially since he brings such a unique, multifaceted approach to creativity, art and AI. It’s not often one gets the opportunity to speak to someone with such deep expertise in both art and technology, which is why this conversation was such a gift.

And another gift – if you’ve ever felt a call to paint or draw, The Realist Painter are hosting a really exciting collaborative workshop this September with one of the most celebrated painters of the contemporary art world, Scott Waddell, formerly from the Grand Central Academy in New York. This rare workshop will focus on the great 19th century master , Bouguereau, and it’s selling out fast – so if you’ve been holding back on your creative impulse and you want to experience the best teaching the art world has to offer, from some of the most sought-after artists, this is for you. I’ll put the links in the shownotes, or you can visit The Realist Painter.com.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Carl and Nathalie explore the intersection of creativity and AI, discussing the nature and process of creativity and the implications of AI on artistic expression. They discuss the complexities of cultural gatekeeping, the future of art in an AI-driven world, and the challenges surrounding intellectual property. The dialogue highlights the importance of personal experience in creativity and the evolving role of technology in artistic practices.

LINKS

https://www.instagram.com/carldejager.art/

https://www.carldejager.com/

https://www.therealistpainter.com/

https://www.instagram.com/therealistpainter/

CHAPTERS

02:58 The Essence of Creativity

05:59 AI's Role in Artistic Expression

08:55 The Intersection of Human and AI Creativity

12:03 The Complexity of Artistic Creation

15:11 Cultural Gatekeeping in Art

17:52 The Future of Art and AI

21:06 Responsibility and Understanding AI's Impact

34:22 The Trust Crisis in Governance

36:18 Reconsidering Copyright and Intellectual Property

42:49 The Evolution of AI Tools in Art

48:25 Navigating the AI Landscape in Creativity

55:50 Art as a Community Experience

57:24 The Realist Painter: A New Venture