In this conversation with Deacon Seraphim Rohlin, we continue our exploration of Genesis through the Syrian tradition, looking especially at Seth (Adam and Eve’s son after Cain and Abel), the Nephilim, and the fall of the sons of God. What begins as a discussion of the descendants of Seth becomes a way of understanding the descent from the holy mountain, the corruption of Cain’s line, and the strange traditions around giants, demons, music, desire, and the second fall before the flood.

YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/3D2bRWrbKUU
Episode 1 of this series: https://youtu.be/f--wBUEAxjY?si=cJE6aczhbDx13AoI

Fr. Stephen De Young talking about Nephilim with Tucker Carlson: https://youtu.be/5x9vR5sKHFI?si=nBh9exyV3jkGYtWs

📕 Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

📢 Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 

Books (outside of the Bible) mentioned:
The Cave of Treasures
The Book of the Bee
Book of Enoch
Book of Adam
Kebra Nagast
Jubilees

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💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
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Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

This is a talk I presented at Chesterton Academy of Ottawa earlier this year. 

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ETaRAauDxS0

Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
00:51 - Intro music
01:05 - Chesterton Academy introduction
03:28 - Jonathan begins: art, AI, education, and the Pope’s encyclical
05:53 - Why AI is not human intelligence
08:18 - AI lacks embodied understanding
10:47 - Money, efficiency, power, and the values behind AI
13:07 - The Moloch trap and the AI arms race
15:32 - AI’s impact on work and education
17:01 - The anti-human vision of technocracy
18:40 - What education is really for
21:05 - Why learn art in the age of AI?
23:50 - Little Red Riding Hood promotion
24:46 - Remember, celebrate, and create
25:57 - Remembering our stories and traditions
29:36 - Celebrate what is good
33:16 - Create in service of remembrance and celebration
37:11 - Sincerity after irony and cynicism
39:32 - Fairy tales, icons, and Christian visual language
42:58 - Graphic novels, saints, and medieval storytelling
44:28 - The challenge and opportunity of our time
46:27 - Q: Is pessimism about AI justified?
48:32 - Q: How can remembrance, celebration, and creation be transmitted practically in schools and families?
53:23 - Q: Should schools return to oral exams and oral presentations because of AI?
55:52 - Q: How much can we participate in or use AI without falling into the trap?
58:31 - Q: What does cave art reveal about the relationship between man and art? Is art the signature of man?
01:03:02 - Q: What is the difference between inventing something new and creating?
01:07:20 - Q: Do strict rules in art stifle creativity? Why do people say beauty is subjective?
01:10:04 - Q: How can we recover a true remembrance of the Middle Ages rather than seeing them as dark or backward?
01:14:55 - Q: What is the difference between reading traditional stories and watching movies for entertainment?
01:19:02 - Q: Why was beauty dismissed from art, and why is our built environment so ugly?
01:21:07 - Q: What is your favorite piece of art in your home?
01:23:28 - Q: Can AI be used as a Socratic interlocutor in education?
01:26:36 - Q: What is the value of teaching classical languages like Latin and ancient Greek?
01:27:45 - Q: How should young artists balance pursuing art with the need to make money?
01:30:50 - Q: What is the importance of boredom, rest, silence, and imagination?
01:33:15 - Q: Is re-enchantment, post-irony, and sincerity possible in an intentional way?
01:37:08 - Q: How can different traditions unite against AI without losing their distinctiveness?
01:41:39 - Q: How do we discern beauty in imperfect work, especially in a performative society focused on excellence?
01:44:02 - Q: Where do you think AI is going, especially in education and culture?

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

There’s a lot of expectation and noise around Christopher Nolan’s upcoming movie, The Odyssey (2026). For decades after WW2 we were unable to tell many stories about kingship and fatherhood. As we move through the turbulent end of the WW2 consensus, stories like this form part of how we process the return of the father and identity.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/6prGX3wZKI8

Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free. More than our other fairy tales, this one emphasizes the importance of the father’s role in protecting his family from the strange and subversive. https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

Backrooms (2026) is a recent horror/thriller film based on a creepypasta —an internet urban legend— that emerged around the time of the Covid lockdowns. A man discovers an infinite, labyrinthine expanse of "backrooms" that becomes increasingly disturbing.

In this video, I analyze the symbolism of the film and explore the deeper reasons why it is so popular, outshining major blockbusters with much larger budgets and marketing campaigns. Enjoy.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ZK6NaFsBGaM

Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

I had a discussion with Gavin Ortlund about the Orthodox Church's position on salvation outside the church.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/RtC8ENpbOW4

Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 

Timestamps
00:00 Introduction and background to the discussion
03:08 Steelmanning each other’s positions
04:12 Gavin summarizes the Orthodox view of salvation
05:37 Jonathan explains salvation as healing and theosis
06:36 Normative and non-normative ways of salvation
08:13 Jonathan summarizes Gavin’s historical argument
10:53 Gavin clarifies his thesis about Orthodoxy, Catholics, and Protestants
16:40 Is the modern Orthodox view a return to earlier tradition?
18:32 Gavin explains why the 9th–19th century period matters
20:20 Disagreement over whether individuals can be declared damned
22:57 Jonathan responds on Orthodox theological boundaries
24:54 Debate over the 9th century and the Photian schism
31:32 The question: Is Gavin a Christian brother?
38:37 The Synod of Jerusalem and Protestant theology
41:36 Jonathan reads from the Synod of Jerusalem
43:56 Gavin responds to Jonathan’s use of an old blog post
46:42 Gavin outlines the Synod’s language about Protestants
49:12 Jonathan argues synods define norms, not individual destinies
52:28 Gavin challenges the “normative” reading of the Synod
55:20 Normative texts, dogmatic authority, and qualifications
58:13 Theophan the Recluse and hope for the non-Orthodox
01:04:16 St. Philaret of Moscow and leaving souls to God’s mercy
01:09:35 Protestant missions in Orthodox lands
01:11:23 Gavin defends Protestant missionary theology
01:13:30 Jonathan critiques Protestant evangelism and denominationalism
01:16:21 The Eucharist, communion, and institutional exclusivism
01:18:16 Gavin explains why he is not Orthodox
01:20:44 Jonathan on Christ’s presence and God’s desire to save all
01:21:59 Are Protestants categorized like Buddhists or Muslims?
01:25:36 Salvation as transformation into the image of Christ
01:28:55 Theophan’s advice: focus on your own salvation
01:30:06 Personal holiness and evangelism
01:32:18 Calvinism, evangelism, and divine decree
01:36:52 Predestination, foreknowledge, and the River of Fire
01:39:59 Closing the theological discussion
01:40:33 Gavin’s apology and reflections on online discourse
01:42:59 A call for patient Protestant-Orthodox dialogue
01:44:12 Jonathan’s closing thanks

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

I went to see Spielberg’s Disclosure Day and found myself watching a strange, late-stage piece of boomer propaganda about aliens, media, religion, and who we are supposed to trust. Here are my thoughts on the symbolism of the film.

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/SBGPLaGfVTc

Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

We often think of enemies as those who attack us openly, but fairy tales also warn us about another kind of enemy: the one who comes close, pretends to be our friend, and destroys from within. I also discuss how this pattern appears in Scripture, culture, identity, and even technology, and why discernment is so important in our current moment.

Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/ 

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/U8VXqPX1-0Q

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

I’m joined again by Seraphim Hamilton to discuss his upcoming Symbolic World course on Isaiah, beginning June 15th. We talk about why Isaiah is central for understanding Christ in the Old Testament, the relationship between prophecy, exile, the suffering servant, the gentile nations, and the deep symbolic unity between Scripture, liturgy, and creation.

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/lPpBFh2-V90

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
00:47 - Intro music
01:01 - Introducing Seraphim Hamilton and the Isaiah course
01:48 - Seminary, liturgy, and returning to Scripture
02:39 - Why Isaiah?
03:02 - Isaiah as a Christological book
05:27 - High Christology in the Old Testament
06:52 - Leviathan, Revelation, and the Angel of the Lord
07:51 - Isaiah 27 and the serpent of Genesis
08:22 - Sennacherib, Hezekiah, and the Angel of the Lord
10:51 - Are Old Testament prophecies taken out of context?
11:18 - Exile, Assyria, Babylon, and biblical prophecy
14:57 - Course promo: The Fifth Gospel
15:47 - Isaiah 14 and the fall of Satan
16:44 - The king of Babylon and the Daystar
19:06 - Isaiah 14, Isaiah 53, and the suffering servant
22:46 - Venus, Lucifer, and Christ as opposite images
24:22 - Angels, humanity, and the transfer of authority
25:57 - Is the suffering servant Israel or the Messiah?
26:23 - The Messiah as the son of David
28:50 - The servant, the seed, and the restoration of Israel
32:13 - How the nations participate in the promise
32:41 - The Old Testament and the redemption of the nations
34:54 - The mountain of the Lord and divine fire
37:34 - The heavenly Jerusalem and Isaiah 60
38:02 - Isaiah 59, incarnation, and the redemption of Israel
40:19 - The nations coming to honor the Jewish Messiah
43:14 - What the Isaiah class hopes to offer
43:56 - Seeing Christ disclosed in the Old Testament
46:36 - Symbolism, the Fathers, and the tight weave of Scripture
47:44 - Course details: five classes on Isaiah
48:49 - Closing and where to sign up

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

This is a talk I did at Hillsdale College in March 2026. In this talk, I explore mythological thinking as a way of understanding how facts become meaningful. Facts do not present themselves to us neutrally. They are always organized by care, relevance, attention, and story. I look at examples from Genesis, Icarus, Spider-Man, the Tower of Babel, and modern science to show how myths preserve deep patterns of human experience. Rather than treating myth as fiction or primitive explanation, I argue that myth reveals the structures by which we perceive reality, understand purpose, and connect psychology with theology.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/DEShUddn8HY

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Timestamps:
00:00 Coming up
01:38 Intro music
02:03 Introduction at Hillsdale College
06:59 Talk begins: hope, fragmentation, and new conversations
09:19 “Facts don’t care about your feelings”
12:12 Care organizes facts
16:50 Facts are always contained in a story
19:15 The Fifth Gospel course announcement
20:10 Why stories survive across generations
24:04 Mythological stories vs. scientific descriptions
27:14 Origin stories and why we care
30:37 Genesis as more than a scientific text
33:34 Genesis, relevance, and human categories
37:38 Why the mythological story should be primary
39:36 Myths are not primitive explanations
41:47 Babel, Icarus, Prometheus, and repeated patterns
44:16 Applicability vs. allegory
47:40 All remembered stories are mythological
49:24 Psychology, theology, and human care
51:27 The Incarnation as the myth that came true
54:34 How story unites psychology and theology
58:29 Returning to mythological thinking
59:55 Q&A: Bringing mythological thinking into science education
01:02:58 Q&A: How to recognize false myths
01:07:37 Q&A: Speaking truth in hostile circles
01:08:53 Q&A: Original sin as a true myth
01:11:13 Q&A: How artists discover truth through story
01:13:42 Q&A: Why live by Christ’s story rather than another?
01:18:21 Q&A: The modern fall into cold, hard reality

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

A telling of the events in Genesis that you might never have heard before.
In this episode of Universal History, Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and I return to Genesis through the Syriac tradition, especially the Cave of Treasures. This is the groundwork for understanding the universal history of Persia.

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/f--wBUEAxjY

Universal History playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_M2uZP3yW6EEiod3fGD6FD

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
00:38 - Intro music
01:03 - Why return to Genesis before Persia
05:54 - Syriac sources and the Cave of Treasures
08:21 - Tradition, Scripture, and how ancient stories are received
12:55 - Melchizedek, Moriah, and hidden biblical patterns
17:41 - The first day: creation, waters, and the leaven of life
24:37 - The second day: the firmament and the waters above
28:45 - The third day: earth, seeds, and creation’s hidden potential
34:22 - Sterility, power, and modern artificial systems
38:21 - The fourth day: sun, moon, stars, heat, and life
43:45 - The sixth day: the formation of Adam
45:23 - Adam’s glory and the angels’ fear
52:17 - Satan refuses to venerate Adam
56:56 - The chariot of fire and ascent into paradise
59:19 - Eve, Adam’s side, and ancient wedding symbolism
01:02:09 - Paradise as the Church
01:06:47 - Jerusalem, the cross, and universal history
01:10:55 - The fall, the serpent, and the mirror of temptation
01:17:42 - Garments of skin and the body after the fall
01:22:13 - Adam and Eve expelled from paradise
01:27:00 - The Cave of Treasures and the first temple
01:29:21 - Cain, Abel, and the first sacrifice
01:31:42 - Cain’s jealousy and the first murder
01:35:40 - Abel as the first martyr and first relic
01:37:50 - Genesis as the pattern of the whole world

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
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🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this video, I look at the symbolism of the recent TV show, Pluribus. There's a lot of speculation about whether it's an allegory for AI, the internet, totalitarianism, or resisting tyranny. But I would argue that it's not allegorical at all, rather it's an exploration of a deeper ontological problem: the relationship of the one and the many, the inside and the outside, sameness and difference.

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/JIk5jpmf5D0

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/