In this episode, Rachel Bernstein interviews Elise Heerde, a certified coach and mental health practitioner specializing in religious trauma, cult recovery, and coercive control. Elise recounts being raised in fundamentalist Pentecostalism with fear-based teachings about hell and the rapture, leading to anxiety, depression, and insomnia. While on staff at a high-control Pentecostal megachurch, she sought pastoral care and experienced grooming and assault, followed by silencing, threats, and blame. She describes the challenges of leaving and explains her trauma-informed coaching approach versus unqualified “spiritual counseling.” Elise also discusses co-founding the Religious Trauma Collective Australia & New Zealand to connect survivors with resources and practitioners, and advocates for behavior-focused reforms such as group-based coercive control through Victoria’s parliamentary inquiry. 

Elise’s Links

Website: https://www.eliseheerde.com/

Book: https://www.eliseheerde.com/books

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 

In this Patreon bonus episode, Rachel Bernstein covers black-and-white (all-or-nothing) thinking and how cults and controlling partners reinforce it through us-vs-them fear, loyalty demands, and discouraging questions. The episode covers how this mindset affects former cult members’ relationships, self-esteem, emotions, and decision-making, often fueling guilt, shame, anxiety, and paralysis. The episode also introduces CBT strategies and an exercise to practice more nuanced, evidence-based thinking and regain confidence outside a high-control group.

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

In this episode, John Collins, founder of the William Branham Historical Research and the 'Leaving the Message' YouTube channel, shares his personal journey of escaping the cult of William Branham. Raised within the cult, where his grandfather was a leading figure, John dives into his awakening from deep-seated indoctrination that began due to a series of personal traumas. He details his extensive research on the origins of the group, its ties to weaponized religion, and the profound influences on modern charismatic movements. John highlights the challenges of re-entering the 'real world' after years of indoctrination, the disturbing discoveries about the cult's connections to historical and political movements, and the ongoing efforts to bring these truths to light. His story is a compelling exploration of faith, manipulation, and the quest for truth.

Collins’ Links

Website: https://william-branham.org/site/john_collins

Books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LeavingtheMessage

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein speaks with Susan Bookheimer, a distinguished UCLA professor and neuropsychologist with over 40 years of expertise in brain imaging and human brain development. The discussion delves into the profound impact of trauma on the brain, particularly focusing on the reward system and the amygdala. They explore how neglect and various forms of abuse alter brain structures and functions, the significance of implicit learning, memory modulation, and the potential for healing through therapy and positive experiences. Susan emphasizes the importance of understanding the brain's interconnected systems, practical strategies for mitigating ongoing stress, and the power of conscious, repeated positive experiences in fostering recovery. This episode sheds light on both the challenges and possibilities for those seeking to heal from traumatic experiences.

Susan’s Links

UCLA Profile: https://profiles.ucla.edu/susan.bookheimer

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

A quick note: this podcast is proudly partnered with a company, but the ads you hear are chosen by our network, not by us. Their views don’t necessarily reflect those of the IndoctriNation team.

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 

In the continuation of this Patreon bonus episode, Rachel Bernstein discusses the importance of self-talk and its impact on mental well-being. The episode covers techniques to regulate the nervous system, externalize the internalized critic, and practice curiosity over blame. Rachel emphasizes the value of gentle cognitive behavioral techniques, grounding exercises, and compassionate self-talk scripts. The episode also highlights the benefits of shifting physiological and cognitive patterns to build more positive and self-affirming internal dialogues.

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

A quick note: this podcast is proudly partnered with a company, but the ads you hear are chosen by our network, not by us. Their views don’t necessarily reflect those of the IndoctriNation team.

In this episode, Camille Lewis, an assistant professor of Communication Studies at Furman University, discusses her latest book, 'Klandamentalism.’ Camille, who spent 15 years researching the book, uncovers the deep connections between Bob Jones University and white supremacist ideology, including ties to the Ku Klux Klan. The conversation spans Lewis's personal journey through fundamentalist Christianity, her academic career, the challenges she faced at Bob Jones University, and how she has used her research to uncover hidden histories. This episode also goes into broader themes of how high-control groups operate, the intersection of religion and racism, and the importance of autonomy and truth in scholarship.

Camille’s Links

Substack: https://klandamentalism.substack.com/

Book: https://libraries.clemson.edu/press/books/klandamentalism/

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

A quick note: this podcast is proudly partnered with a company, but the ads you hear are chosen by our network, not by us. Their views don’t necessarily reflect those of the IndoctriNation team.

In this episode, Dr. Lucas Wilson shares his personal journey and academic exploration of Holocaust studies and conversion therapy. He discusses his experiences growing up, his struggle with faith and sexuality, and his in-depth research on the intergenerational transmission of trauma. Dr. Wilson also provides a detailed account of his time at Liberty University, his attempts to change his sexual orientation through conversion therapy, and the profound impact these experiences had on his life. This compelling conversation delves into the complex interplay of religion, identity, and trauma, offering valuable perspectives for anyone interested in understanding the long-lasting effects of oppressive religious practices.

Dr. Lucas Wilson's Links

Social Media Handles

- Instagram: @lukeslamdunkwilson

- Threads: @lukeslamdunkwilson

- TikTok: @lukeslamdunkwilson

- Bluesky: @lukeslamdunkwilson.bsky.social

- Twitter/X: @wilson_fw

- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucas-wilson-2a0753b1/ 

- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/luke.wilson.96 

Links to Books

- Shame-Sex Attraction: https://bookshop.org/p/books/shame-sex-attraction-survivors-stories-of-conversion-therapy-lucas-wilson/5f133f339779ddb5?ean=9781805011323&next=t& (for those in the U.S.)

- At Home with the Holocaust: https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/at-home-with-the-holocaust/9781978839816/

Discount Code

The following is the 20% discount code for Shame-Sex Attraction: “WILSON20” (but the discount is only available through Jessica Kingsley Publishers' and the University of British Columbia Press' websites [the discount code does not apply to the links included above]). For those in the United States, this code can be used on Jessica Kingsley Publishers' U.S. website (https://us.jkp.com/), and for those in Canada, the code can be used on the University of British Columbia Press' website (https://www.ubcpress.ca/shame-sex-attraction).

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

A quick note: this podcast is proudly partnered with a company, but the ads you hear are chosen by our network, not by us. Their views don’t necessarily reflect those of the IndoctriNation team.

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 

In this Patreon bonus episode, Rachel Bernstein addresses the pervasive issue of negative self-talk among cult survivors. She explains how cults and controlling relationships instill an internal critic in members, leading to persistent self-criticism and shame. Drawing from a book on self-talk and personal experiences, the episode offers trauma-sensitive tools to identify and change harmful internal messages. It includes education on how cults build these internal critics, followed by practical strategies and evidence-based counters to common harmful self-criticisms. The goal is to help listeners depersonalize these critical voices and foster self-compassion. 

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

A quick note: this podcast is proudly partnered with a company, but the ads you hear are chosen by our network, not by us. Their views don’t necessarily reflect those of the IndoctriNation team.

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein sits down with Matthew Facciani, a researcher at the University of Notre Dame whose work focuses on misinformation, media literacy, social networks, and political polarization. Matthew discusses the reasons why people fall for misinformation, how identities and networks influence our belief systems, and the importance of critical media literacy. He also shares insights from his new book, 'Misguided,' and provides strategies to improve our media consumption habits. The episode emphasizes the need to find common ground in dialogue and the importance of being aware of conflict entrepreneurs who profit from societal division.

Matthew’s Links

Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0231205058?tag=bk00010a-20&th=1&psc=1&geniuslink=true

Website: https://www.matthewfacciani.com/

Substack: https://matthewfacciani.substack.com/podcast

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

A quick note: this podcast is proudly partnered with a company, but the ads you hear are chosen by our network, not by us. Their views don’t necessarily reflect those of the IndoctriNation team.

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein sits down with cult expert Steven Hassan for a personal and eye‑opening conversation about how cults work, why people get drawn into them, and how those same dynamics show up in today’s political and social landscape. Steven opens up about his own recruitment into the Moonies, the difficult process of leaving, and how that experience shaped his decades of work helping people understand and break free from undue influence.

They explore the overlap between cult behavior and modern politics — including his research on what he describes as the “Cult of Trump” — and his interactions with key figures and organizations along the way. They also dig into broader topics like Fourth Generation Psychological Warfare, why certain groups are more vulnerable to manipulation, and what it actually takes to build resilience and critical thinking in a world full of persuasive forces.

This episode offers a grounded, compassionate look at the tactics used to control people, and highlights why awareness, empathy, and informed conversation matter so much right now.

Steven’s Links

Website: https://freedomofmind.com/

The Cult of Trump book: https://freedomofmind.com/the-cult-of-trump/

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

A quick note: this podcast is proudly partnered with a company, but the ads you hear are chosen by our network, not by us. Their views don’t necessarily reflect those of the IndoctriNation team.

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 

In this Patreon bonus episode, Rachel Bernstein discusses the potential dangers of relying too heavily on artificial intelligence (AI) as a digital guru. She talks about how AI can manipulate psychological vulnerabilities, leading to identity erosion, cognitive outsourcing, and even AI psychosis. Through detailed examples, Rachel explains how AI can become the ultimate digital love bomber and control mechanism, emphasizing the need for vigilance, critical thinking, and maintaining a well-defined sense of self. The episode concludes with practical advice on using AI as a tool rather than a leader and encourages the embrace of life's natural complexities and frictions.

Connect with us on social media:

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about