Justin sits down with Helen Ryles and Michael Green, the two people behind almost every chat, email, and demo call that comes into Transistor, to talk about the company's secret weapon: the thing that converts 75% of trials to paid and keeps people around for years.

Chapters:

• (02:13) - What did Helen do before she joined Transistor?
• (03:00) - What did Michael do before joining Transistor?
• (05:05) - How does Transistor do customer support different?
• (08:04) - What have we learned by doing demo calls with customers?
• (12:32) - What are some of the emotions of starting a podcast?
• (16:15) - What can startups learn from being a customer led company?
• (18:44) - How do we approach AI in customer support?
• (22:50) - How does customer support translate into sales?
• (25:49) - What else does a customer support role do at a Saas?
• (33:41) - How do future generations learn how to be on a team?

Quotes:

From Helen:"The bar with customer support is really quite low across the industry... If companies are setting the standard of getting back to people in three to five business days, we don't have to necessarily adopt that. We can set our own standards."

From Michael:

"There is an emotional side to podcasting, to using a product, to creation, and we help on that side as well. People are often excited or nervous or panicking or something feels urgent, and we can help alleviate all of that emotional side. It's not just about questions and answers."

Have feedback on this episode?

• 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​
• 🦋 Reply on Bluesky
  
• 📺

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Justin and Jon reconnect after a two-year podcasting hiatus. What's happened since their last episode? Lots! They talk about big changes in their personal lives, and then move on to how they're thinking about Transistor as a business. These discuss burnout and motivation, the evolution of the podcasting industry, the pressure of being a leader, and the possibility of taking a sabbatical. The Transistor team is off to Banff for their annual retreat!

Quote:

"Working hard does not lead to burnout, but the lack of hope leads to burnout. So if you're working really really hard for something that you don't believe will pay off, it's super easy to lose motivation. And that has happened to me in the past! But! If you believe that the thing you're working on will have a payoff, the amount of work almost doesn’t matter." – Aaron Francis

Links:

• The last episode Jon and Justin recorded together
• Aaron Francis' newsletter
• "Everything you've been told about burnout is wrong."
• Matt Wensing's tweet

Have feedback on this episode?

• 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​
• 🦋 Reply on Bluesky
  
• 📺 Watch this episode on YouTube.
  

Timestamps:

• (00:00) - Who remembers how to do this anyway?
• (00:30) - Where has Jon been for the last 2 years?
• (08:56) - What's Justin been up to?
• (11:36) - Maybe there's more to burnout than we think
• (24:40) - Should we build something else as a backup?
• (27:31) - What need to be true for you to be happier?
• (33:38) - Remote work kind of sucks
• (39:06) - Brainstorming more ideas around connecting better
• (42:32) - What about sabbaticals?
• (51:03) - Thank you to our Patreon supporters

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Harris Kenny was a long-time listener of the podcast, and dreamed about building his own software product. After multiple attempts, over 5 years, he finally did it. How? He shares his experiences transitioning from a corporate job to entrepreneurship. He also discusses the challenges of user engagement, the exploration of various SaaS ideas, and the importance of foundational work in entrepreneurship.

Links:

• Harris Kenny on Linkedin
• OutboundSync - Integrate outbound campaigns in HubSpot and Salesforce
• IntroCRM (Archived) - Access Blocked
• How Loom Found PULL - Growth Strategy Case Study
• Follow Justin on Bluesky

Have feedback on this episode?

• 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​
• 🦋 Reply on Bluesky

Timestamps:

• (00:09) - I did it! I build my saas!
• (02:59) - Why did Harris quit his job?
• (11:03) - When you don't have a boss, do you have the drive to go get work?
• (15:45) - How did you hear about saas businesses?
• (27:02) - Recognizing a need and building something for it
• (34:44) - So many opportunities in inventory software
• (41:03) - The difficulty of getting people to just log in
• (49:18) - The saas that worked
• (01:01:01) - Where are you getting new customers from?
• (01:06:47) - Using Tinyseed as a bridge
• (01:11:02) - Going over the top on support is a key
• (01:24:04) - Showing results helps agencies show value

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Bootstrapping a business is like getting a plane to lift off the ground. But what do you do once the plane is in the air?

Dave Giunta and Justin Jackson recorded a recent phone call about maintaining motivation after the initial startup phase. How does founder energy shift once you've achieved your early goals? Dave prods Justin to find new sources of motivation – whether through mentoring junior team members, connecting with customers in fresh ways, or knowing when it's time to explore new horizons.

They also discuss why Dave left Home Chef (after 8 years) and what he's doing next.

Links:

• Follow Dave on Bluesky
• Connect with Dave on LinkedIn
• Follow Justin on Bluesky

Have feedback on this episode?

• 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​
• 🦋 Reply on Bluesky

Timestamps:

• 00:00:17 - Giuuuuuunta
• 00:01:15 - Chatting in Guatemala: maintaining motivation, remote work, career transitions
• 00:02:12 - Motivation in early vs late stage startups
• 00:06:00 - Challenges with maintaining motivation once the business is established
• 00:15:35 - Working with different team member motivations
• 00:26:42 - Importance of understanding individual team members
• 00:29:20 - Remote work advantages and challenges
• 00:35:35 - Working with junior team members and mentorship
• 00:54:00 - Why Dave left Home Chef after 8+ years
• 00:57:00 - Discussion of career transitions and giving yourself space to explore
• 01:02:20 - Future plans and exploration after leaving long-term role

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

How do founders of small bootstrapped companies hire new employees?

Adam Wathan got over 1600 people who applied for two new roles at Tailwind Labs (a small team of six people). They ended up hiring two people, but neither of them actually applied. This wasn't how Adam expected (or hoped) this process would go. There were lots of surprising takeaways and lessons learned from the whole experience.

"If you figure we spend 5 minutes on every single application, that was like 133 hours straight reading applications. Processing these job applications was basically my full time job for 2 months." – Adam Wathan

Links:

• Hackers Inc podcast
• Tailwind job opening announcement
• Design Engineer job posting
• Staff Software Engineer job posting
• Reddit: 11 months of job searching visualized

Have feedback on this episode?

• 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​
• 🐦 Reply on Twitter

Timestamps:

• (03:40) - What's the size of Transistor and when did you last hire?
• (05:24) - How did you meet or find your employees?
• (07:12) - Adam's process for hiring
• (12:44) - The energy required to process applications
• (17:32) - What got people in to the 100 list?
• (21:03) - Did Adam get any videos in applications?
• (24:49) - Previous employment was a good indicator
• (30:16) - Painting a picture of what the position looks like
• (32:02) - The kinds of people who applied
• (34:52) - How did the application process work out?
• (38:52) - The kinds of questions we asked applicants
• (42:25) - Does a great conversation impact a hiring decision or not?
• (49:24) - Does having the position open in public help?
• (51:36) - How Adam was connected to the people they hired
• (59:31) - The importance of conference conversations
• (01:02:20) - Finding ways to share your work in public
• (01:06:11) - The process does work... just not this time
• (01:12:30) - Could I ever get comfortable with a 70% success rate?
• (01:20:53) - Bringing in someone you knew vs a fan
• (01:26:45) - Keeping a tab in different areas to pull from

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

A panel discussion on 37signals' first ONCE product, the launch of Campfire ("pay for it once, install it, and run it on your own server"). Ian Landsman, Tyler Tringas, and Justin Jackson share what they expected to happen before the launch, what did happen, and what it means for indie hackers and bootstrappers who want to launch SaaS companies. Is this the end of SaaS?

Links:

• Once landing page
• Campfire sales page
• DHH's tweet: "ONCE/Campfire hasn't even been for sale for a week, but we've already sold more than quarter of a million dollars."
• Tyler Tringas's video

I want to hear your thoughts:

If you listen to the episode, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts:

• Can you think of a low-price, pay-once, on-prem software product that's succeeded? (The only one I could think of was ​Statamic CMS​)
• Do you think a different Once product might have made more sales? What kinds of products do you think might work?
• Did you buy Campfire? What did you buy it for? Are you using it as a chat tool for your company?
• Other thoughts on our discussion.

👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​

🐦 Reply on Twitter

Timestamps:

• (00:00:00) - "I appreciate that 37signals exists."
• (00:01:58) - 37signals' influence in the bootstrapped startup space
• (00:03:58) - What did we expect from the Campfire/Once launch?
• (00:06:23) - DHH's tweet on Campfire sales – is that what we expected?
• (00:09:49) - The Once model, philosophy, and Campfire's history
• (00:17:21) - Misconceptions about what IT Managers want
• (00:19:49) - How Campfire was marketed and positioned
• (00:26:01) - Basecamp's PR, virality, and audience 
• (00:28:29) - Can you do customer research to validate demand?
• (00:32:01) - The volume of sales as a success metric
• (00:33:33) - The Potential for Campfire's expansion
• (00:37:37) - Distribution opportunities with hosting providers
• 00:39:31) - The intuition behind HEY Email's success
• (00:43:42) - The Value of an Audience and Customer Overlap
• (00:45:12) - The Compounding Advantage of Longevity
• (00:49:54) - Scorecard

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Fast Company called Acquired "the #1 tech podcast sensation." I've been a huge fan of the show for years. So, I was surprised when they contacted me and wanted to switch to Transistor for podcast hosting!

Since switching, they've had a breakout year. Their clips started showing up everywhere on my social media feed; they had chart-topping episodes on Nintendo, Nike, and Costco, and they interviewed the CEOs of NVIDIA, Uber, and Charlie Munger. 

And this was the year that Ben Gilbert and David Rosenthal (the co-hosts) both went full-time on the podcast. Podcasting is now their job.

With all of that activity, I thought Build your SaaS listeners would be interested in hearing my interview with David about their entire story:

• How they got started, how they built momentum over time,
• how they were able to double their audience every single year since 2015, 
• And how that momentum ended up Attracting an incredibly valuable audience that they've now monetized through sponsorships. 

This interview has so much that podcasters, creators, and indie entrepreneurs will find super helpful and inspirational.

🔥 Key moments:

• (0:00:00) – A breakout year for Acquired
• (0:01:45) – What is the Acquired podcast about?
• (0:02:40) – How the Acquired podcast got started (origin story)
• (0:07:23) – How Ben and David's co-hosting relationship works
• (0:09:00) – The 3 big goals that made them want to start Acquired
• (0:11:38) – How did listeners respond to the first episodes?
• (0:14:55) – The best reason to start a podcast
• (0:15:30) – The secret to how Acquired attracts new listeners
• (0:18:13) – How they got featured in Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Pocket Casts, and Spotify
• (0:24:18) – How they got their first podcast sponsors (and why it wasn't about making money)
• (0:27:58) – Why they give their sponsors a white glove, 11-star experience
• (0:34:13) – How to get more word-of-mouth referrals for your podcast
• (0:37:00) – Acquired's unconventional approach to podcast ads
• (0:41:54) – How the Acquired podcast's growth machine works
• (0:48:05) – Why their NVIDIA podcast episode went viral
• (0:50:48) – Why they switched from Libsyn to Transistor for podcast hosting
• (0:57:18) – The rise of the "independent, boutique podcaster."
• (1:02:27) – "The future of podcasting doesn't belong to Gimlet, NYT, NPR..."
• (1:06:22) – David Rosenthal's advice to aspiring podcasters

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

The whole team is on the show! Jon, Helen, Jason, Josh, and Justin are on the mics to discuss our recent team retreat to Nashville, Tennessee. If you're wondering what a retreat looks like for a remote team, you'll get a lot out of this episode. We also reveal some of our exploits in Music City:

"Going to a Tiki Bar is usually a mistake."

Highlights

• (00:10) - Welcome
• (01:10) - Highlights of our retreat in Nashville
• (12:55) - It's not easy to get everyone together
• (20:26) - Our schedule for the retreat
• (26:24) - Electrolytes are a good idea
• (31:49) - Things to improve or tips for other teams

"For 51 weeks, our small team works efficiently. Our team retreat week is a culmination of celebrations, milestones, birthdays, and holidays we might have missed. It's special to condense these moments into one week and see everyone in person to celebrate our achievements from the previous year." – Helen

Links:

• Photos from our trip to Nashville. 
• PhotoWalk Nashville service.
• SurfOffice Location Finder: "Discover the optimal location to meet with your remote team. Results are sorted by average travel time per person, number of stopovers, and overall price."
• How to plan a team retreat: Planning a retreat can be a daunting task, so we wanted to share our learnings in the hopes that it’ll be helpful for other remote teams out there.

Takeaways:

• The city you choose for your retreat will significantly influence the team's productivity and leisure activities.
• Be intentional and set aside time for planning and product discussions.
• A retreat is a great time for a remote team to celebrate milestones and achievements.
• Have a balance between work activities and fun activities.
• Simple activities like games or cards can be as fulfilling as fancy events.

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Justin catches up with his old internet friend Paul Jarvis. Today, Paul co-founded Fathom Analytics with Jack Ellis: a simple alternative to Google Analytics. Paul is also the author of the book "Company of One," which has influenced a whole generation of indie entrepreneurs (and has been reviewed by Cal Newport, Chris Guillebeau, Ben Chestnut, Tiago Forte, and more). Previously, Justin and Paul did a weekly mastermind, where they supported and encouraged each other around our indie businesses. They decided to do a catch-up call and recorded it so you could listen in. 👍

Highlights:

• (00:10) - Intro
• (02:15) - Being off the internet
• (03:53) - What's a typical day for Paul?
• (06:16) - Looking back at our Mastermind call
• (08:03) - There's no beginning and no end
• (10:31) - Things that are out of your control affect your business
• (13:03) - Does Justin's surfing metaphor make sense to a surfer?
• (16:06) - How would you start an indie business in 2023?
• (22:00) - You've got to get in motion
• (25:03) - Using products in your category for a long time
• (27:48) - Is there still any room in Saas?
• (31:51) - The act of making the bet
• (38:40) - Is freelancing still viable in 2023?
• (42:50) - Company design is lifestyle design
• (44:55) - Worrying about being stagnant
• (47:15) - How do you handle customer feature requests?
• (52:03) - It's ok to be late to a shift in the market
• (58:19) - Caring is an indie advantage
• (01:05:00) - Collaboration is what gets us anywhere

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

Links:

• Fathom Analytics (get $10 off)
• Book: Company of One
• Article: How to Start a Mastermind
• Wayback Machine: Mint Analytics
• Article: Why we moved from courses to SaaS
• Self-Publishing Hangout: Paul Jarvis, Nathan Barry, Sacha Greif, Justin Jackson

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Tim reached out after the Aaron Francis episode: "I wanted to pitch you on the idea of coming on the podcast and sharing my journey of building side projects for the last decade while raising a family. I can also share the guardrails I put in place before finally going full-time on T.LY."

Highlights:

• (00:12) - Welcome
• (01:13) - Who is Tim Leland?
• (03:20) - What guardrails did you put in place?
• (06:24) - What's the sales funnel?
• (08:13) - Family as a motivator
• (16:21) - How would you describe your effort during this process?
• (20:06) - What about family boundaries?
• (23:25) - How do you manage your thoughts?
• (31:15) - How have you been able to manage the effort level?
• (34:44) - The pressure of cutting the cord from your job
• (38:16) - What's it been like being full time on t.ly?
• (39:59) - What's your SEO magic touch?

Links:

• Tim's startup: T.LY
• Tim's Twitter
• Tim's blog: tools for marketers

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

This week Jon and Justin are joined by Marcella Chamorro. Previously, she worked in startup marketing but has recently transitioned to coaching founders and teams. We discussed how startup founders and their team members can realize their full potential.

Here are some highlights:

• (00:24) - Introducing Marcella
• (03:03) - How do you define your coaching?
• (05:10) - What do you see with rising stars?
• (09:37) - Do you navigate team dynamics or individual work?
• (14:40) - Any advice for founder's stress
• (23:22) - Personal lives do come to work
• (32:44) - The ability to have difficult conversations
• (47:05) - A lot of value in speaking to someone who's not you
• (50:26) - How can people reach out Marcella?

Quote:"I think people who choose to do coaching want to be really good at what they do and they want to have a really good life. They are looking to optimize their time on planet Earth."  – Marcella

Links:

• Subscribe to Marcella's newsletter
• Marcella’s coaching website
• Check out Marcella's articles
• Marcella on LinkedIn
• Marcella on Twitter

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Rewardful.com
• Mitchell Davis from sixsides.co
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★