Rick Harmon shares his time-tested method for organizing information about messy real estate cases

Meet Barry Adams. Barry's practice mainly focuses on probate and trust law and over the course of the podcast, Rick and Barry talk about some of Barry's more tricky cases and his thoughts on that area of law in general. They also discuss the impact of the fires in California and how it is affecting the people in the region.

What kind of cases do you typically encounter?

Barry has been doing almost exclusively probate and trust work since 1993 so he's had quite a bit of experience in that area. Since he's in the middle of two major regions he gets a wide variety of cases but he often gets a lot of litigation cases but prefers to avoid the litigation if he can.

Practicing in Northern California has a very different feel than the cases in Orange County. Most of Barry's clients find him through existing clients and other attorneys, but he's getting a lot more from the internet than he expected would be the case.

The California court system is the biggest in the world, it's actually bigger than the Federal system. Each county also tends to do things a little differently which can create some difficulties for the practitioners.

Are the fires in Sonoma County causing a lot of issues?

Definitely, Barry has had a number of clients that have lost all their documents along with their house to the fire. Because of the number of homes that have been lost and the number of people that want to rebuild, there is a massive labor shortage in the area and the cost per square foot is going up.

The scale of the destruction is creating really complicated issues but at the end of the day, these people are just trying to put their lives back together.

How do you approach new cases that come through your doors?

Barry's approach has changed over the years. He usually looks for beneficiaries that are being taken advantage of, he's been in that kind of situation before a number of times and wants to prevent it if he can.

Elder abuse and elder fraud are also pretty common in Barry's practice. Oftentimes, the abuser ends up being a failure to launch sort of situation but when it happens, Barry is happy to fight the good fight. Barry relates a story where the daughter of a widow took over the finances after the spouse died and ended up squandering the money while bouncing mom from old age home to old age home.

The abuser is those situations often have a sense of entitlement that causes a number of problems that you wouldn't see with a stranger. The parents have to recognize the fact that there is going to be an issue in order to not leave a mess for the more responsible child.

Links To Resources Mentioned

949 274 4760

adamsandrafferty.com

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Meet David Shapiro. Rick and Dave discuss David's trust and estate practice, tricky puzzles he's encountered in the course of his business, and some of the more messy property cases he's worked on.

What does your practice look like?

David's practice is almost exclusively trust and estate litigation. He represents trustees and beneficiaries from all over the world.

No matter what planning people will do, people will die and leave messes behind. As long as there are people around, Rick and David will always be in business.

A lot of David's cases come from other attorneys that refer him when the case becomes too litigious. The first introduction to the case where they put together the plan is the most exciting time. Discovery tends to be the most costly part of the case but you will need to do some discovery to reach a resolution.

When working in trust and estate law in California, you end up seeing the same people all the time since most cases are consolidated into the primary courthouse, which can end up being an asset.

Do you get any cases that last a long time?

Some cases can take up quite a bit of time, but David likes those cases. He prefers to be in the trenches finding a resolution for his clients.

When it comes to the opposition, it's hard to tell if a poor performance on a case is due to the level of competence of the attorney or because of the client. Trust and estate law is a complex area, and working with a personal injury lawyer should probably not be your first choice. You need someone with experience is this particular area of law.

Do you get into messy property matters?

All the time. David has seen plenty of wacky deeds, forgeries, and everything you could think of when it comes to title. Land and property in California can be extremely complicated, especially when you go back in history.

You have to bring on other people, you can't be an expert in everything. David has a handful of other attorneys he trusts that he can bounce ideas off of for tricky legal puzzles. Very few title inspectors are left, it's a dwindling skill and talent that you can't find very often anymore.

A title company should be in a position to take on some risk for a client in order to facilitate a case and get it to a resolution. Rick has cases with missing pieces all the time and that means there is risk involved, but you do have to pick and choose the kinds of people you want to get involved with. There are a lot of bad stories in probate court and sometimes you can never be quite ready for certain cases, but it's always nice to see cases that turn out well for the families involved.

Do you work with a lot of people outside the US?

Usually, there is a lawyer that works with David's international clients that can represent them and get them to sign documents. Language can be tricky so it's important to work with someone who can help you communicate with the client. Even with language barriers, David usually manages to find a satisfactory resolution for his clients.

Links To Resources Mentioned

310-773-0377

davidashapirolaw.com

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Listen into the interesting interview with Joseph McHugh. Rick and Joseph discuss the ins and outs of his law practice, some of the more tricky cases he's dealt with, as well as how Joseph works with his clients.

What kind of work do you like to do?

Joe's background of working at Disney gave him a taste for contract administration and project management. While he was working at Disney, he got a lot of questions about probate and estate planning. His wife eventually pointed him in the direction of focusing on the field.

Joe realized that he could protect people and their assets and grew to enjoy the work. He started off with a lot of referrals from a CPA firm that he worked with and this lead him to get into elder law where he could help people in very difficult situations.

There has been so much bad advice that has been given out about elder law. Joe deals with a lot of MediCal cases because a lot of people don't realize what the requirements are. He gets quite a few cases that are in crisis mode by the time they come to him.

California is the only state that hasn't adopted a deficit reduction act. This allows California to do a lot of other things that the other states can't take advantage of. In many cases MediCaid falls short in ways that don't apply in California.

Have you encountered any really difficult cases?

Joseph talks about a story where a woman who was on MediCal and had died and her family had to deal with a $250,000 MediCal claim on the home. During the conversation, the family may have been under the impression that he was willing to disable one of them with an axe.

He tells another story of a case where a woman who passed away was sold two promissory notes. The slippery part was that they were 30 year notes and the woman was 91 years old. Rick refers to this as an equity-ectimy, Joe calls it elder abuse. A lot of elders are preyed upon by bad people.

Burbank is turning out to be a great source for cold calls from people looking for estate planning and elder law. Joe also gets quite a few referrals from sources like Yelp and Google searches.

Any parting words for the listeners?

People should really be looking at the preventative stuff. There are a few documents that you should have which are power of attorney and advanced health care directive. You should try to avoid a conservatorship being taken out on you as much as you can. Do some pre-planning now and save your family a lot of grief later on.

Links To Resources Mentioned

818-241-4238

http://www.la-lawcenter.com/

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and leave a 5-star rating and review in iTunes!