Future U Podcast
Jeff Selingo and Michael Horn
Jeff Selingo and Michael Horn discuss what’s next for higher ed and talk with the newsmakers you want to hear from most.
- 49 minutes 56 secondsWhy Don’t More Colleges Run Co-Op Programs?
Co-op programs are trending these days, with many colleges looking to offer students on-the-job experiences while taking classes. Jeff and Michael talk with Robert McMahan, president of Kettering University, which has a long-running co-op program for all students. He argues that more colleges could incorporate and scale the approach. But there are obstacles, both cultural and logistical. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.
Chapters
0:00 - Intro
1:44 - An Unusual History of a Co-op Model
3:28 - Kettering Presidents’ Path to University Leadership
6:17 - Why Colleges Should Think of Employers as Their Customers
11:23 - Why Colleges Can’t Learn Everything They Need On Campuses
17:17 - How Kettering University’s Co-op Model Differs Than Others
20:44 - Why Isn’t Kettering More Popular?
24:44 - What Is Keeping More Universities From Doing Co-op Programs?
29:30 - Sponsor Break
31:05 - How More Colleges Can Move to a Co-op Model
35:36 - Companies Don’t Have Enough Internships to Meet Demand
39:08 - Could There Be ‘31 Flavors’ of Experiential Learning?
41:50 - Will We See a Return of the Corporate University?
45:52 - Lightning Round With Robert McMahan
Links
“Colleges Teach Learning, but They’re Not Learning How to Survive,” by Robert McMahan in Fortune.
“Former Governor Dishes on Connecting Work and College,” past Future U episode.
Connect with Michael Horn:
Sign Up for the The Future of Education Newsletter
Connect with Jeff Selingo:
Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You
Sign Up for the Next Newsletter
Connect with Future U:
Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!
Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.
6 January 2026, 5:00 am - 1 hour 40 secondsResist or Reform? Vanderbilt’s Chancellor Speaks Out
Should colleges actively resist the Trump administration or find ways to engage and compromise? Vanderbilt University’s chancellor, Daniel Diermeier, has emerged as a leading example of engagement — facing a mix of cheers and jeers in the academy. Jeff and Michael talked with Diermeier about why he thinks higher education needs to change, and his ambitions to grow his institution’s prestige and research impact. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.
Relevant Links:
“Live from Milken: One-on-One with Bill Ackman,” preview Future U episode.
“Arizona State’s President Is Pulling Out All the Stops to Get on Trump’s Good Side,” in The New York Times.
“The Elite-University Presidents Who Despise One Another,” in The Atlantic.
“The (Not So) Quiet Schism Among Academic Leaders,” in The Chronicle of Higher Education.
“College-Age Jews Are Heading South,” in The Atlantic.
Chapters
0:00 - Introduction
2:07 - Why Vanderbilt’s Chancellor Stands Out in This Moment
4:46 - Is Vanderbilt Trying to Beat the Ivies?
7:23 - Why Vanderbilt Chose Dialogue With Trump Administration
10:06 - Did Higher Ed Get Too Comfortable?
11:12 - Are Higher Ed Institutions Up to the Challenge of Responding to Trump?
15:22 - What Daniel Diermeier Sees As Most Needed Reform for Higher Ed
17:40 - Will 'Resistance" by Colleges Hurt Federal Funding Broadly?
21:48 - Could the U.S. Lose the Lead In Higher Ed?
23:25 - Why Jewish Students are Flocking to Vanderbilt -
26:58 - A Plan for Expansion to Other Cities
29:03 - Sponsor Break
29:43 - Is Trump the Symptom or Cause of Higher Ed’s Challenges?
34:37 - A Rift Over How to Respond to Skepticism of College
37:40 - How Could the Research Process Be Reformed?
39:41 - The Fallout from October 7 Protests
43:40 - The Challenge of Political Diversity on Campus
49:37 - Can a New Group of Campuses Unseat the Ivy League?
52:06 - The Role of College Athletics in Campus Prestige
53:06 - A Regional Shift in Prominence
57:55 - Lightning Round With Daniel Diermeier
Connect with Michael Horn:
Sign Up for the The Future of Education Newsletter
Connect with Jeff Selingo:
Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You
Sign Up for the Next Newsletter
Connect with Future U:
Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!
Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.
16 December 2025, 5:00 am - 45 minutes 2 secondsTakeaways from 2025 and Predictions for Next Year
As the year comes to a close, Jeff and Michael step back to review some themes from recent episodes. They home in on how to build innovative campus cultures, and how colleges can respond to AI. And they look ahead, offering predictions for higher ed for 2026. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group, Adobe, and Butler University.
Relevant Links
“A Looming Crisis: New Analysis Shows Dozens of Well-Known Colleges Are Near Financial Trouble,”
Michael Horn and Steven Shulman
"The Financially Sustainable University,"
Jeff Denneen and Tom Dretler
Chapters
0:00 - Introduction
4:22 - A Case for Massive Experimentation
6:30 - Making Shared Governance an Asset
10:00 - Building Innovation Into Campus Culture
11:41 - Lessons From Silicon Valley
13:17 - What Parents Are Asking About AI at Colleges
14:54 - Importance of Experiential Learning
18:40 - How Liberal Arts Can Be Taught Differently in the AI Age
21:11 - Being Creative v. Being a Creator
22:20 - Time for Colleges to Step Back and Strategize About AI
28:00 - New Research Reveals Mid-Size Colleges Could At Financial Risk
33:43 - Understanding the Details of New Student Loan Caps
37:37 - Breaking Down the Latest Enrollment Numbers
40:07 - Michael’s Predictions for 2026
41:56 - Jeff’s Predictions for 2026
Connect with Michael Horn:
Sign Up for the The Future of Education Newsletter
Connect with Jeff Selingo:
Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You
Sign Up for the Next Newsletter
Connect with Future U:
Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!
Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.
9 December 2025, 5:00 am - 48 minutes 42 secondsRerun: Visiting Bowie State University: HBCUs, Employer Partnerships, and Student Engagement
On the latest stop of Future U.'s campus tour, hosts Michael Horn and Jeff Selingo visit Bowie State University to speak with President Aminta Breaux, as well as faculty and administrators at the Maryland institution about increased enrollment at HBCUs, partnerships with employers, and student engagement. With support from Salesforce.org.
25 November 2025, 5:00 am - 52 minutes 40 secondsNavigating a Merger as a College Trustee
When Marymount Manhattan College’s board of trustees decided last year to merge with Northeastern University, becoming a part of that Boston-based university’s global system, the vote was unanimous. As Jeff and Michael continue their ongoing exploration (some might say obsession) with mergers and acquisitions in higher ed, they talk to one of Marymount Manhattan’s trustees, Abby Fiorella, on this episode to get a board member’s perspective on how mergers can be strategic wins for smaller institutions, as well as key to protecting their core missions. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.
Relevant Links
“God and Man at Yale,” by William F. Buckley.
"The Abundant University: Remaking Higher Education for a Digital World," by Michael Smith,
Mission statement of Arizona State University
Mission statement of Southern New Hampshire University
“Why a University Proactively Sought a Merger," our other episode this season about M&A in higher ed.
Chapters
0:00 - Why Do We Keep Talking About Mergers?
3:50 - Introducing Our Guest, Abby Fiorella
5:17 - How to Prepare a Board for a Merger
9:19 - Deciding on Institutional Priorities
12:44 - What Is Marymount Manhattan College Doing to Preserve Its Identity?
17:17 - How Can a Board Come to Peace With a Merger?
21:40 - How Can Boards Make Mergers Less Taboo?
24:29 - Reframing Merging As an Opportunity
27:01 - Closing Thoughts From a Trustee
28:54 - Sponsor Break
29:38 - What It Means for a Board to Be Responsible to a Mission
36:21 - How Can Universities Put Mission Statements Into Practice?
38:52 - Why College Mergers Require ‘Courage’
39:21 - Making Time in Board Meetings for Strategic Planning
44:56 - The Role of Communication Between Presidents and Boards in Considering Mergers
47:59 - Why Most Boards Should Set Up Systems to Prepare for an Uncertain Future
48:37 - Lightning Round With Abby Fiorella
Connect with Michael Horn:
Sign Up for the The Future of Education Newsletter
Connect with Jeff Selingo:
Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You
Sign Up for the Next Newsletter
Connect with Future U:
Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!
Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.
18 November 2025, 5:00 am - 54 minutes 44 secondsPreparing Students for an AI-Infused Workforce
In this special episode recorded live at Adobe’s EduMAX conference, Jeff and Michael explore practical ways to harness AI in higher education to prepare students to be more effective creators. They were joined by a panel of industry and academic experts including Jennifer Sparrow, New York University’s chief academic technology officer; Simon Koh, who has led early career recruiting at Raymond James and KPMG, among other organizations; and Allison Salisbury, founder and CEO of Humanist Venture Studio.
Relevant Links:
“AI Is Not Just Ending Entry-Level Jobs. It’s the End of the Career Ladder as We Know It,” CNBC“
The Rise of AI Will Make Liberal Arts Degrees Popular Again. Here’s Why,” in Inc magazine.
Chapters
0:00 - Intro
3:49 - What Is an AI-Ready Graduate?
7:52 - How AI is Changing Early-Career Jobs
11:00 - What Skills and Mindsets Do Students Need?
14:31 - How Colleges Can Increase Experiential Education With Employers
22:19 - What Colleges Do As Employers Pull Back on Internships
28:37 - What is the Purpose of College in an AI World?
34:14 - How the Signaling Power of College Could Change in the AI Era
37:38 - How Students Are Using AI to Create
41:25 - Will AI Bring Resurgence of Liberal Arts?
45:50 - How Creativity is Important Even in the Finance Sector
49:31 - Why AI is More Creative Than Humans
51:40 - What Colleges Can Do in the Next 12 Months
Connect with Michael Horn:
Sign Up for the The Future of Education Newsletter
Connect with Jeff Selingo:
Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You
Sign Up for the Next Newsletter
Connect with Future U:
Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!
Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.
11 November 2025, 11:45 am - 54 minutes 53 secondsHow States Can Meet the Moment In Higher Ed
In this time of uncertainty and pullback of federal support for higher education, is it time for states to step up and play a greater leadership role in helping colleges better serve students? And if so, how? Jeff and Michael debate those questions on this episode. To set the stage, they talk with Ruth Watkins, president of postsecondary education for Strada Education Foundation and a former college president, about Strada’s new State Opportunity Index. A key theme: the state level may be the ideal one to match educational offerings with available jobs, especially as AI reshapes so many industries. This episode is made with support from Strada Education Foundation.
Chapters
0:00 - Intro
3:40 - How a New Report Measures State Higher Ed Efforts
5:53 - Is This a Time for States to Lead?
8:17 - How to Encourage Competition Among States
10:12 - Which States Lead In Higher Ed ROI
12:52 - Low Tuition Doesn’t Guarantee Good ROI
15:39 - What Can Colleges Do If Job Prospects Are Low in a State?
19:00 - Who Is the Audience for the State Opportunity Index?
21:09 - How Can State Measure Return on Investing in Higher Ed?
23:52 - What Can States Do in Higher Ed to Respond to AI?
26:45 - Sponsor Break
27:55 - Some Context for How States Interact With Federal Higher Ed Support
29:40 - Why Jeff Thinks States and the Feds Aren’t ‘Rowing in the Same Direction’
32:00 - Why Michael Sees More Alignment in State and Federal Efforts
34:15 - Will States Step In to Support Research?
37:07 - Are Some States Doing Better on Work-Based Learning?
40:54 - Colleges Still Aren’t Comfortable in Their Role of Getting Students Jobs
46:29 - New Leadership Opportunity In Human Capital in the AI Era
48:18 - A Better Way to Measure State Investment
51:56 - Lightning Round With Ruth Watkins
Relevant Links:
2025 Strada State Opportunity Index
Strada Education Foundation
State Higher Education Executive Officers Association
Connect with Michael Horn:
Sign Up for the The Future of Education Newsletter
Connect with Jeff Selingo:
Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You
Sign Up for the Next Newsletter
Connect with Future U:
Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!
Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.
4 November 2025, 5:00 am - 55 minutes 53 secondsVisiting Butler: Sparking a Culture of Innovation
On the latest stop of Future U.'s campus tour, Michael and Jeff visit Butler University to talk with Butler president Jim Danko and other campus leaders. They explore how, out of a mix of excitement about serving students and fear of potential competitive threats on the horizon, the university built a culture and infrastructure to encourage innovation.
Relevant Links
Butler University’s Transformation Lab website.
Chapters
0:00 - Why We Wanted to Visit Butler University
3:46 - What Butler’s President Said He Would Do When He First Started
7:22 - Some Early Wins In Sparking Innovation
9:16 - The Importance of Time and Patience in College Leadership
13:25 - How Presidents Can Best Work With Trustees to Encourage Innovation
15:46 - How a Business Background Influenced Leading a University
19:37 - Why Did Butler Push for Innovation?
21:11 - Putting a Vision Into Practice
22:50 - The Importance of Wanting to Win
28:01 - A Chief Strategy Officer’s Viewpoint
35:35 - A Faculty Perspective on Innovation
37:04 - The 50-50 Rule of Running the Board of Trustees
38:53 - What Butler Ventures Looks Like Today
47:43 - What Grade Would Butler Give Its Innovation Efforts?
52:00 - Closing Observations
Connect with Michael Horn:
Sign Up for the The Future of Education Newsletter
Connect with Jeff Selingo:
Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You
Sign Up for the Next Newsletter
Connect with Future U:
Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!
Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.
30 October 2025, 11:28 am - 57 minutes 59 secondsThe Impact of AI on Student Motivation
How can AI be adopted in a way that turns more students into “explorers” rather than “passengers” in their learning? This week we bring you a conversation with the co-author of a book on student disengagement in school, Rebecca Winthrop, who is also researching the impact of AI on education. The episode is by one of Future U’s producers, Jeff Young, from his new podcast, Learning Curve.
Chapters
0:00 - Intro
4:19 - When the ‘Student Disengagement Crisis’ Started
7:25 - A Framework for Describing Levels of Student Engagement
15:18 - How AI Is Impacting Student Motivation
19:00 - Why ChatGPT’s ‘Study Mode’ Is Not the Answer
25:05 - Advice for Companies Making AI Tools for Education
29:32 - Tips for Students
34:42 - A High School Student’s Take on AI
48:30 - Advice For Teachers on Dealing with AI
51:35 - What Is the Purpose of School in the Age of Generative AI?
Publications Mentioned:
by Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson
“Minnesota high school student weighs the benefits and pitfalls of AI,”
“I’m a High Schooler. AI Is Demolishing My Education,”
Brookings Global Task Force on AI in Education
‘We Have to Really Rethink the Purpose of Education,’
“Attention Please: Professors Struggle With Student Disengagement,”
“Playing the Grade Game,”
Connect with Michael Horn:
Sign Up for the The Future of Education Newsletter
Connect with Jeff Selingo:
Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You
Sign Up for the Next Newsletter
Connect with Future U:
Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!
Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.
21 October 2025, 4:00 am - 39 minutes 43 secondsHow AI Could Reshape Higher Ed
Parents and prospective students want to know how colleges are responding to the rise of generative AI — and to other recent developments like federal budget cuts to research. On this episode, Jeff and Michael share what they’re both hearing as they visit campuses around the country this fall. And they offer their analysis of what AI could mean for higher education, and whether the time is ripe for new entrants to enter the college landscape. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.
Publications Mentioned
Joshua Rothman in The New Yorker
Student Loan Debt Is Strangling Gen X
Oyin Adedoyin in The Wall Street Journal
Charlie Javice sentenced to 7 years in prison for $175M fraud
ABC News
Anthology Declares Bankruptcy, Blackboard to Remain as the Core,
Phil Hill, in OnEdTech
Chapters
0:00 - Intro
2:23 - What Jeff Is Hearing On His Book Tour for ‘Dream School’
4:25 - Should College Get Harder Because of AI?
7:27 - Why Different Kinds of Colleges Will Be Impacted Differently
10:48 - Startup Universities Are Emerging With an AI Focus
14:25 - Redesigning the College Experience Around Activities and Personal Development
17:39 - Will a New Kind of Expertise Be Required On Campuses?
19:20 - Will Employers Trust Degrees In the AI Era?
24:40 - Sponsor Break
25:35 - How Student Loan Debt Is Impacting Gen X
28:22 - A Republican Effort to Question Consultants That Help Set College Prices
30:15 - Charlie Javice Sentenced In Fraud Case
31:44 - Anthology, Owner of Blackboard LMS, Goes Bankrupt
34:00 - Some Trade Schools Exempted From New Federal Rules
35:00 - Making Changes at Colleges Stick
Connect with Michael Horn:
Sign Up for the The Future of Education Newsletter
Connect with Jeff Selingo:
Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You
Sign Up for the Next Newsletter
Connect with Future U:
Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!
Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.
14 October 2025, 4:00 am - 44 minutes 20 secondsWhy a University Proactively Sought a Merger
Mergers and acquisitions are usually seen as bad things in higher ed. But there’s a growing sense that many colleges could benefit by teaming up, especially as the fiscal cliff means fewer potential students. Jeff and Michael continue to dive into their fascination with M&A by talking to Walter Iwanenko Jr, the president of Gannon University in Erie, Pa., about how and why the institution sought a merger with Ursuline College near Cleveland. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group
Publications Mentioned:
“Two North Carolina universities announced a merger. Why some alumni are pushing back,” in USA Today.
“A Midwest Merger: How Two Ohio Colleges Are Coming Together,” from Future U, season 8.
Chapters
3:42 - Why Mergers and Acquisitions Are Increasingly Important In HIgher Ed
6:15 - What Led Gannon University to Look for a Merger?
9:30 - What Gannon University Hoped For in a Partner
13:01 - How Gannon University Found Ursuline College
16:21 - What’s Stopping More Colleges From Seeking Mergers?
21:36 - Learning From Other Mergers That Failed
23:04 - What Should Change to Help More Mergers Happen?
27:02 - Sponsor Break
29:00 - How to Change the Perception of M&A in Higher Ed
35:46 - Finding the Right Leadership
38:30 - What is the Trump Administration’s Stance on Making College Mergers Easier?
41:08 - Lightning Round
Connect with Michael Horn:
Sign Up for the The Future of Education Newsletter
Connect with Jeff Selingo:
Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You
Sign Up for the Next Newsletter
Connect with Future U:
Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!
Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.
7 October 2025, 4:00 am - More Episodes? Get the App