Show Notes

We start by dipping into the book with 50 arguments for God and a chapter “Jesus as God” which says that if we ditch 4th & 5thC debates and modern categories of Trinity, we see Jesus expressing his divinity in his own way.  It explains Jesus’ caged language on this as Jesus needing to avoid being stoned for blasphemy.

We look at some of the key passages in the gospels, in particular looking for differences between the author’s view and Jesus’ proclamations regarding whether he was God.  This leads on to the Liar Lunatic Lord argument made famous by CS Lewis, and the sceptics’ 4th option “Legend”.  

We look at the “Liar” option. And we offer you: Misquoted, Misunderstood, Mythologised and Mistaken. 
   
Links:

Books: 
“Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. 

CS Lewis - “Mere Christianity”

Bart Ehrman - “How Jesus Became God”

Richard Carrier’s blog:
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/20130

Doubts Aloud Links:
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Show Notes
Ed has recently recorded an Unbelievable? Show with Dr Denis Alexander who is an evangelical Christian, a biologist and author of books like “Creation or Evolution: Do We Have to Choose?”.  Denis fully embraces evolution.  While these ideas are fresh, we took the time to think through how a deep thinking Christian reconciles evolution and faith as it informs theology on suffering, God’s intervention in the world, salvation, the soul and Adam & Eve.    

Links:
Denis uses John Stott’s idea that Adam was “Homo Divinus”. Here is a fairly short Stott quote:
 https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thepangeablog/200
9/01/13/quote-to-ponder-john-stott-on-creation-and-evolution/

Creation Or Evolution: Do We Have to Choose?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creation-Evolution-Do-Have-Choose/dp/1854247468

Doubts Aloud Links:

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The evangelical case for conditional Immortality 

Recommended books.

Edward Fudge   -  The Fire That Consumes
Henry Constable  -   The Duration and Nature of Future Punishment
Edward White -  Life in Christ 
John Stott -  Essentials 
Rethinking Hell - Readings in Evangelical Conditionalism

Episode 96 - The Kirk Cameron Controversy and the Case for Conditional Immortality

Kirks original video that sparked the controversy 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RflbA8Vt_Y

Kirk Camerons subsequent round table disscusion of the issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds3UbUsIaQs

Text for DA Podcast Ep 95
 
Title Suggestions
Virgin Births in Ancient Culture
Virgin Births in Greek and Hebrew Culture
 
Show Notes
We look for origins of the Virgin Birth doctrine in Christianity.  Principally we search the Greek and Hebrew cultures that are the context behind the birth narratives in Matthew and Luke’s gospels. What we don’t conclude is that the origin of the Virgin Birth was that mistake in the translation of the Old Testament into Greek, which created for the first time “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son…”. But we do wonder if the first version of Luke even had the Virgin Birth.
Links:
Greco Roman Literature and the New Testament : Selected Forms and Genres. Jan. 1988 by David E Aune (Editor)
From John Nelson’s Behind the Gospels, Aug 08, 2024 “How to Write an Infancy Narrative: A Seven-Step Guide to Ancient Birth Stories”
https://www.behindthegospels.com/p/how-to-write-an-infancy-narrative?utm_source=publication-search

And

https://www.behindthegospels.com/p/is-matthews-story-of-the-virgin-birth
 
The early creed which seems to deny the Virgin Birth doctrine: Romans 1:3–4
 
Mark Goodacre thinks Mary conceiving out of wedlock might be an origin. NT Pod 64
https://podacre.blogspot.com/2012/12/nt-pod-64-is-virgin-birth-based-on.html
 
The Bart Ehrman Blog - Why Was Jesus Born of a Virgin in Matthew and Luke?
https://ehrmanblog.org/why-was-jesus-born-of-a-virgin-in-matthew-and-luke/
 
 
Doubts Aloud Links:
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Show Notes
In episode 92 we explained the idea of Atheist Prayer and introduced a philosophy paper on it by Oxford prof Tim Mawson. This episode Tim is our guest.  We discuss the “Atheist Prayer Experiment”, which Tim’s paper inspired, and his contribution the Unbelievable? Shows on the Experiment.  The link to Divine Hiddenness is a strong theme.

Appendium notes regarding the views of Richard Swinburne.

"Swinburne does think that atheists who pray for a revelation because they intend to send their results into a radio show, even those who at the stage they actually do the praying are doing it sincerely (in the sense we're using that term - that is wanting to find out the truth for truth's sake and being willing to shape their lives accordingly thereafter) are less likely to get answers from God than are those who were merely sincere in this sense, i.e. those who are praying for a revelation without, as he called it today, 'mixed' motivations. But that's not because God doesn't like the idea of the news of their experiences spreading via the radio and thus reducing the general level of hiddenness that He has good reason to maintain; so Richard's is not, as I erroneously speculated it was, an instance of the footnote-13-type reasoning which someone might have for maintaining this. It's rather - Richard says - because God has more reason to answer prayers asking for revelation from people with just the motivation to seek the truth, et cetera. rather than those with mixed motives; it depends on the 'mix ratio' as it were. So, ideal then (for some purposes) would be atheists who pray this sort of thing sincerely (in the sense we mean), and only later - as an afterthought - report it onwards. Those he'd be more likely to answer than the ones Justin and I had on our 'experiment', who only started praying with the intention of passing it onwards, even if they later (or even simultaneously) developed the sincere motivation; either way, they will have had mixed motives." 

Links:
The paper “Praying to stop being an atheist” by Prof Tim Mawson:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k_TWLsLji4te169FZicpg_2vI9vsB330/view?usp=sharing
Tim’s email: [email protected]
 
Unbelievable? Shows on the Experiment:
Classic Replay: Atheist prayer experiment results show – part 1. 29-9-2022
Classic Replay: Atheist prayer experiment results show – part 2. 4-10-2022
(Seach ‘Mawson’ in your Unbelievable? Feed)
 
Ryan Bell tried a "Year Without God"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_J._Bell
 
 
Doubts Aloud Links:
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Show Notes
We welcome Dr Lucas Wilson (also known as Luke), he’s an academic and has both studied and experienced the practice of Conversion Therapy.  The idea behind such therapy is that sexual orientation and/or gender identity is a mental disorder which can be fixed, usually by God, with the help of a programme, therapist, exorcist, boot camp, deliverer or some such. Luke has recently edited a book containing a set of personal stories and vignettes of experiencing such ‘therapy’. It is shocking, harrowing, sometimes comic and wonderfully written by each contributor.  We discuss the practice from the point of view of a historian, as well as a former conservative Christian and now a human with a strong moral compass. Is Conversion Therapy a category of genocide?  
 
Links:
Don’t miss Luke’s book:
Shame-Sex Attraction. Survivors’ Stories of Conversion Therapy edited by
Lucas F. W. Wilson. Jessica Kingsley Publishers, 2025
 
Films Mentioned, both from 2018:
Boy Erased
The Miseducation of Cameron Post
 
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using:  [email protected]

Show Notes
Yes, atheist prayer is a thing! We explain the idea and introduce a philosophy paper on it by Oxford prof Tim Mawson. The paper gave rise to the “Atheist Prayer Experiment” which Justin Brierley conducted and reported on via the Unbelievable? Show in 2012.  We discuss the setup and results of the Experiment. Tim Mawson himself has agreed to be our guest in November to give feedback on our musings.
Links:
The paper “Praying to stop being an atheist” by Prof Tim Mawson:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k_TWLsLji4te169FZicpg_2vI9vsB330/view?usp=sharing
 
Unbelievable? Shows on the Experiment:
Classic Replay: Atheist prayer experiment results show – part 1. 29-9-2022
Classic Replay: Atheist prayer experiment results show – part 2. 4-10-2022
(Seach ‘Mawson’ in your Unbelievable? Feed)
 
The Facebook group on the Experiment, here is the setup page we mentioned and you can click on to group home page:
https://www.facebook.com/legacy/notes/227785844014301/
 
Key Bible passage on those outside the faith seeking God:
Acts 17:24-27
 
 
Doubts Aloud Links:
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Show Notes
Andrew leads us through the development in the Hebrew scriptures regarding how other Gods/gods alongside Yahweh were understood.  Initially Yahweh was seen as Israel’s God within a Henotheist context, where Henotheism is the belief in or worship of one god while acknowledging the existence of other gods. A key idea was a Heavenly Council as seen in the opening of Job. Over time Yahweh became seen as more and more powerful than the other gods and eventually monotheism became dominant by the time of the New Testament. There is of course debate on this in the scholarship, which we discuss.
 
Bible Study:
Psalm 82:1
Exodus 12:12
2 Chron 18:18-22
Job 1:6 & 2:1
Deuteronomy 32:8, 39 and 43
Isaiah 47:8-9  
 
Bible Scholars to look up: Mark Smith, Michael Heiser (the evangelical one), Dan McClellan, Thom Stark and Francesca Stavrakopoulou
 
Doubts Aloud Links:
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Show Notes

Last episode we discussed apparently poor design within the Intelligent Design argument.  It led into assessing whether the Fall is a good explanation for poor design and hence natural suffering.  Here we discuss other explanations for a good and loving God making a world with natural suffering. In particular, we assess Sceptical Theism which we covered in episode 3. The idea is that the explanation is beyond our understanding, which seems good but has problematic implications.  One implication is the issue of whether God is lying in His revelation is something else we’d expect to be beyond our understanding.  Finally, we cycle back to the Fall narrative in Genesis to see whether God is lying in his warning to Adam.

Doubts Aloud Links:

Please give feedback, meet Ed’s challenge on suffering in the Old Testament and ask questions using:
 [email protected]

Show Notes
In recent episodes we have discussed Design Arguments and Intelligent Design. Here we cover another chapter from the 50 Arguments for Faith book which explains the apparent suboptimal Design. It is interesting to see what reasons Intelligent Design proponents give.   One suggestion is: "We must also remember that the world we are observing is not the original creation. It is a corrupted version of The Creation." This leads us into discussing the Fall as an explanation for Natural Suffering, a widely held view in Christianity. The journey of discussion will be continued next episode.
 
Links:
The 50 Arguments for Faith book: “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski.  (It can be found on Amazon.)
 
The famous video clip with Stephen Fry talking about worms burrowing out of children’s eyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo
 
Justin Brierley’s response video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klPr708VWDk
 
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback, meet Ed’s challenge on suffering in the Old Testament and ask questions using:  [email protected]