Zach sits down with Susie and Paul, a couple who found each other through the comment section of a meditation app, fell in love before ever seeing each other's faces, and eventually moved across the globe to build a life together in Wollongong, Australia. Both came out of 20-year marriages. Both made the decision to leave. And both arrived at this second chapter with a fundamentally different understanding of what a relationship is actually for.

The conversation covers a lot of ground: the fear and courage it takes to end a marriage, what the brain does when it's protecting you from change, and why staying in stable misery can feel like the smarter option even when it clearly isn't. Susie, a life coach and host of the Love Your Life Show, talks about how she once saw relationships as a transaction, where she got something and gave something back, and how completely that framing has shifted. Paul, who has spent a decade studying, practicing, and teaching Buddhism and mindfulness, brings a steadying philosophy: you are the creator of your experience, not the victim of your circumstance, and your emotions exist to teach you, not to be avoided. Together they describe a marriage built on two whole people rather than two people trying to complete each other, and what it actually looks like in practice, including how Paul came back after a moment of frustration over grocery bags and said, simply, that he'd been a little unregulated earlier. Susie calls it the sexiest thing a man can do.

What makes this episode stick is how honest it is about the cost of the path they took and the fruit of it. All five of their kids, across two blended families, are thriving. And neither Susie nor Paul thinks that's a coincidence.

Key Takeaways

• Your brain will give you every reason to stay in a relationship that isn't working because discomfort is still known, and known feels safe
• Leaving a long marriage at midlife is not a failure. Sometimes the most courageous act is moving toward discomfort instead of away from it
• A relationship is not a transaction. It's a container for self-growth and a practice in loving someone imperfectly
• One plus one should equal three: two whole, self-responsible people creating something stronger together, not two halves looking for completion
• The most important things to cultivate in yourself and to look for in a partner: the ability to self-regulate and the ability to repair
• Repair doesn't have to be dramatic. It can be as simple as "I could have handled that more skillfully" or "I was a little unregulated earlier"
• Your emotions aren't happening to you. They're here to teach you something. The path through discomfort is the path, not a detour from it
• Staying in a broken marriage "for the kids" may be the very thing harming them. What children need modeled is not a facade of togetherness but emotional honesty and growth

Guest Info

Susie is a life coach and educator who works primarily with women on emotional intelligence, relationships, and parenting. She hosts the Love Your Life Show podcast (now at 400 episodes) and runs a monthly membership called the Love Your Life School, which offers classes on emotional regulation, difficult conversations, and parenting coaching, along with live coaching. She offers a free podcast roadmap at her website for new listeners looking for a starting point. https://smbwell.com/

Paul is Susie's husband and a decade-long practitioner, student, and teacher of Buddhism, mindfulness, and meditation. He is the author of 9756 Miles to Happiness, named for the exact distance between where he and Susie were living when they met. He is offering MTR listeners a free 15-minute consultation through his website, https://www.paulpettit.com/

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Zach sits down with Arlina and Bob Allen, a couple who met in a recovery community over 30 years ago and have been building their marriage with the same tools ever since. What starts as a surprisingly revealing Game of Thrones conversation (they watch it on repeat as a bedtime ritual, and yes, they have strong opinions about House of the Dragon) turns into a grounded, real-world look at how recovery principles translate directly into relational health.

Arlina walks through a go-to story from early in their relationship: a tipping dispute at a dinner with friends that spiraled into a full-blown money fight. She breaks down the four-column resentment inventory she learned in recovery, showing how she moved from "it's clearly his fault" to "oh no, I'm the jerk." Bob talks about the role his men's group played as a sounding board, helping him sort through what was his business and what wasn't before bringing anything back to Arlina. Together, they describe a pattern of going to their separate corners, doing individual work, and coming back ready to own their part.

The conversation shifts into their current season of life: approaching the empty nest, figuring out what retirement looks like, and trying to answer the question "what kind of experiences do we want to have?" Zach reframes self-care as something that is actually selfish not to do, comparing it to an athlete hiding an injury from their team. Arlina and Bob both affirm that their self-care practices, morning routines, gratitude, exercise, prayer, are what keep them showing up as the best versions of themselves for each other. This is a couple who makes 31 years look like something worth rooting for.

Key Takeaways

• Resentment is the wedge that drives couples apart. Having a structured process to work through it, not just vent about it, is what keeps it from calcifying.
• The four-column inventory (who, why, how it affected you, and your part) is a simple, powerful tool for getting honest with yourself before you try to get honest with your partner.
• Money fights are almost never about math. They're about fear, control, and what you believe you deserve.
• Having your own people (sponsors, friends, a therapist) to process with before bringing conflict back to your partner changes everything about how the conversation goes.
• An amends is not just "I'm sorry." It's naming the impact of your behavior and asking what you can do to make it right.
• Self-care is not selfish. Skipping it is. When you don't take care of yourself, your partner is the one who pays the price.
• You can "out-responsible" each other in conflict. Instead of chicken-and-egging blame in one direction, try racing to own your part first.
• Couples who laugh about old fights have usually done the real work underneath. The lightness is earned, not accidental.

Guest Info

• Arlina Allen: Entrepreneur, sobriety coach, podcast host, and author of The 12 Step Guide for Skeptics. Arlina supports people who are considering quitting drinking or figuring out life after getting sober. Website: soberlifeschool.com
• Bob Allen: Communications professional who describes himself as "the guy in the chair," orchestrating communication across teams from engineers to executives. Bob is not on social media by choice.

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Zach is traveling this week, so this episode features his guest appearance on the Sexology Podcast with Dr. Nazanin Moali.

Zach joins Dr. Nazanin Moali on the Sexology Podcast for a conversation about how the emotional climate of a relationship directly shapes what happens (or doesn't happen) in the bedroom. The focus is Negative Sentiment Override, a concept from John Gottman's research that describes what happens when couples get stuck in a pattern where even neutral or well-meaning moments get filtered through a lens of criticism, contempt, or defensiveness. It's the kind of thing that quietly erodes connection without either partner fully understanding why.

The conversation covers how positive and negative emotional filters work, why a simple comment about pasta can become a full-blown conflict when trust is low, and how gender socialization plays into desire patterns in ways most couples never talk about. Zach and Dr. Moali also talk about the gap between impulse and response, the role of personal responsibility in conflict, and why contempt carries a particular kind of poison because it comes wrapped in a feeling of superiority.

What makes this conversation worth your time is the way it connects relational safety to sexual vulnerability. If your relationship feels charged, tense, or emotionally distant, that almost always shows up in your intimate life too. Zach and Dr. Moali reframe what sex is actually for in a long-term relationship and make the case for scheduling erotic play and expanding what intimacy can look like. It's practical, grounded, and refreshingly honest.

Key Takeaways

• Negative Sentiment Override means your partner's neutral actions start getting interpreted through a filter of criticism or hostility, and it happens gradually enough that you may not notice.
• Emotional safety is the foundation of sexual vulnerability. If it doesn't feel safe to be honest in the kitchen, it won't feel safe to be honest in the bedroom.
• The "pasta example" is a good litmus test: if your partner makes dinner and your first internal response is irritation rather than gratitude, your filter may have shifted negative.
• Contempt is uniquely damaging because it comes with a sense of superiority. It's not just anger; it's the belief that you're better than your partner.
• Gender socialization shapes desire in ways most couples never discuss openly, and those unspoken patterns create misunderstandings that look like rejection.
• Slowing down the space between impulse and response is one of the most powerful things you can do for your relationship. Reactivity is the enemy of repair.
• Taking personal responsibility in conflict is not about taking blame. It's about owning your part of the dynamic so something can actually shift.
• Scheduling erotic play and broadening what counts as intimacy helps couples move past the pressure of performance and back toward genuine connection.

Guest Info

This episode is a guest appearance by Zach on the Sexology Podcast.

Host: Dr. Nazanin Moali, clinical psychologist and host of the Sexology Podcast Website: sexologypodcast.com Instagram: @sexologypodcast

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Zach sits down with Ron and Catrina, a married couple behind the YouTube music show Covers on the Spot, to find out what happens when you treat a relationship like a live recording session. Ron is the creative director and host of the show, where bands are given a song they have never heard and tasked with covering it in a single day. Catrina is a graphic designer on the same media team at Musora and the quieter half of a pairing that, by their own description, sounds like "something harmonic." Together, they have three kids, a shared workplace, and a relationship built on aligned values and very different processing speeds.

Using a "covers on the spot" framework for the conversation, Zach gives Ron and Catrina relationship prompts and asks them to riff. What comes out is a candid look at how they handle conflict, protect their time together, and keep choosing each other through the daily grind of parenting and working side by side. Catrina is open about her tendency toward passive aggression and the work she is doing to change it. Ron talks honestly about learning to stop "winning" arguments and start listening instead. One of the most striking moments comes when Catrina says their relationship at its best sounds like silence: quiet, smooth, still moving.

Zach ties it all together with a Ben Folds story about orchestras resolving dissonance, not just difference, and drops one of his signature reframes: repair is more important than resolve. This is an episode for anyone who has ever stayed up until 2 a.m. trying to fix something with their partner and wondered if there was a better way.

Key Takeaways

• Winning the argument is not the same thing as being right about the relationship
• Giving your partner time to process is not waiting. It is participating.
• A relationship is not something you find. It is something you build with someone who wants to build with you.
• Repair is more important than resolve. You can go to bed without solving it and still be okay.
• Protecting your time together matters more than filling your calendar with activity
• The best relationships keep evolving their sound. What worked five years ago may not be the song you need now.
• Constraints (kids, time, fatigue) can actually sharpen how a couple communicates, not just limit it
• Vulnerability is daring to be fully honest with someone, not just showing them the version of yourself you think they want

Guest Info

• Ron (Catrina's husband): Producer and host of Covers on the Spot, a YouTube music show where bands cover a song they have never heard in a single day. Former high school musical theater teacher. Based in Chilliwack, British Columbia.
• Catrina (Ron's wife): Graphic designer at Musora. Handles YouTube thumbnails, Instagram assets, and physical product design. Former theater student (played Ariel in The Tempest). Self-described introvert.
• They have three children.
• They started dating January 1, 2011 after being friends since high school.
• Covers on the Spot: YouTube Playlist
• Musora (music lessons platform): musora.com

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Zach sits down with Natalie and Dan Slagle, a married couple and co-founders of Fyooz Financial Planning, to explore why money is one of the most charged—and revealing—topics in relationships.

Despite being financial professionals, Natalie and Dan found themselves running into the same conflicts as the couples they serve. The issue wasn’t knowledge. It was meaning.

They describe how two people can look at the exact same number—$2,700 spent this month—and experience it completely differently. For Natalie, it can trigger scarcity and concern about staying within limits. For Dan, it can represent flexibility and confidence that everything will be okay. Same number. Different story.

The conversation explores how those differences are rooted in early experiences: Natalie learning at a young age to separate “needs” from “wants” and take responsibility for the latter, while Dan grew up in a household where generosity and gift-giving shaped his relationship to money.

Zach helps reframe the tension: the problem isn’t who’s right—it’s that couples often don’t realize they’re talking about different contexts entirely. One partner may be thinking about this month’s budget, while the other is thinking about long-term security.

Natalie and Dan share the simple but powerful practice that changed everything for them: regular, structured money conversations. By sitting down together—often in a public space to keep things grounded—and asking each other how they feel about the numbers, they’ve been able to move from assumption to alignment.

The conversation expands beyond finances into time, parenting, and partnership—especially as they navigate building a business together while raising a young child. From learning how to “clock out” of work to intentionally creating space to miss each other again, Natalie and Dan offer a practical and honest look at what it takes to stay connected in a shared life.

This episode is a reminder that money problems are rarely about money—they’re about meaning, communication, and learning how to build a shared vision.

Key Takeaways

• The same financial number can mean completely different things to each partner
• Money is measurable, which makes conflict around it more intense
• Financial behaviors are deeply shaped by childhood experiences
• Assumptions—not numbers—are often the real source of conflict
• Structured conversations reduce anxiety and increase alignment
• Talking about how you feel about money matters as much as the math
• Household values should guide how money is spent
• Separation (work, space, roles) can increase connection in relationships

Guest Info

Natalie & Dan Slagle

Natalie and Dan are a married couple and co-founders of Fyooz Financial Planning, a firm focused on helping couples align their finances with their values and life goals. Their work sits at the intersection of financial strategy and relational dynamics—helping couples not just manage money, but communicate about it effectively.

• Website: https://www.fyoozfinancial.com/
• Free consultations available nationwide (U.S.-based clients)

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Zach sits down with Hazel Grace and Nico for a wide-ranging conversation about polyamory, relational integrity, and what it actually takes to repair after conflict.

Hazel Grace, a relationship coach and educator with a PhD in human sexuality, and Nico, a lumberjack and self-described relationship nerd, share how they’ve built a deeply intentional partnership within a polyamorous relationship structure. They unpack common misconceptions about polyamory—especially the idea that it’s simply about sexual freedom—and explain how their approach is rooted in responsibility, communication, and care for the entire relational ecosystem.

Zach asks about Hazel Grace’s framework called The Art of Repair. Drawing from their own childhood experiences, decades of personal healing, and years of coaching couples, They outline a clear process for navigating relational ruptures and restoring trust.

Through a real-life example involving a broken ankle and an emotional reaction that escalated quickly, Hazel Grace and Nico demonstrate how repair actually works in practice: pausing to regulate, developing empathy, seeking permission to talk, acknowledging what happened, naming the impact, and then rebuilding integrity.

The conversation is a powerful reminder that conflict is inevitable in relationships—but repair is a skill anyone can learn.

Key Takeaways

• Polyamory isn’t about unlimited freedom; it requires responsibility for the impact of your choices
• Relationships don’t come with fixed rules—you can design agreements that fit the people involved
• Many people mistake “no conflict” for healthy relationships, but avoiding conflict can limit emotional intimacy
• Repair begins with regulation, not explanation
• Empathy for both self and partner is essential before attempting repair
• Asking permission to have a repair conversation creates safety and consent
• Understanding each person’s experience matters more than determining who was “right”
• Repair restores trust through acknowledgment, empathy, and concrete actions

Guest Info

Hazel Grace, PhD

Hazel Grace is a relationship and intimacy coach specializing in relational healing, sexuality, and communication. They teach workshops and courses on relationship repair and works with individuals and couples to develop deeper intimacy and emotional connection.

• Website: https://drhazelgrace.com
• Workshops: Northern California & Colorado
• Courses: Online self-paced programs on The Art of Repair

Nico

Nico is a sawyer—running a mobile sawmill business where he mills lumber directly on clients’ properties. In the winter he works in snow removal in the mountains. He also collaborates with Hazel Grace in relationship workshops and educational programs.

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Zach sits down with Pete and Tasha, a couple whose relationship was forged in the middle of some of life’s hardest realities: addiction, cancer, caregiving, recovery, and the challenge of staying connected when survival itself becomes the focus.

Pete and Tasha met in Boulder after years of each pursuing health and healing in different ways. Tasha had already devoted much of her life to recovery from eating disorders, addiction, and chronic illness, and she knew she wanted a partner who was committed to that same path. Pete initially appeared to be on that path too, but as their relationship deepened, more of his struggle with addiction surfaced. Then, shortly after getting engaged, everything escalated: Pete began experiencing severe symptoms and was ultimately diagnosed with a life-threatening tumor in his mediastinum, wrapped around his trachea and pressing against his heart and lungs.

What follows is not just a story about illness. It’s a story about what happens to a couple when one person becomes “the patient” and the other becomes “the caregiver,” and how hard it is to keep that dynamic from hardening into resentment, overfunctioning, codependence, and loss of reciprocity. Pete talks about how cancer forced him to confront not only his physical condition but the deeper patterns underneath his addiction and lifestyle. Tasha reflects on the toll of supporting him through treatment while also trying not to lose herself in fixing, managing, and carrying too much.

Together, they explore what it means to heal in relationship: how trust gets rebuilt after dishonesty, how accountability has to become daily practice, and how love matures when both people are willing to face their own patterns. They describe practical tools they now use—like regular honesty check-ins, weekly date nights, therapy, and explicit conversations about support, food, recovery, and emotional responsibility—to keep their relationship from sliding into the old “nagging wife / resentful husband” script.

This is a deeply layered conversation about partnership under pressure, and about choosing each other not just in romance, but in recovery, grief, health, and the long work of becoming whole.

Key Takeaways

• Serious illness can expose everything already under strain in a relationship

• Addiction and cancer may look different, but both can force deep reckoning with identity, pain, and self-responsibility

• Caregiving can become overfunctioning if couples are not intentional about reciprocity

• Honesty has to be practiced, not assumed

• Recovery is not just individual; it reshapes the couple dynamic

• Love is not enough without accountability, boundaries, and tools

• Trust can be rebuilt, but it requires repeated truth-telling

• Healing together means learning how not to collapse into patient/caregiver roles forever

Guest Info

PetePete is the founder of Evolve Health https://www.evolvvhealth.com, where he supports cancer patients through coaching and resource navigation after his own experience with cancer treatment and recovery.

TashaTasha is a therapeutic mentor who works with people recovering from chronic illness, addiction, and eating disorders, helping them better understand their patterns and develop healing tools for a more resilient life. Her practice is Resilient Grace https://www.resilient-grace.com.

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One year ago, Robin and Hector came on the show after their first year together. Now they’re back for a relationship “State of the Union.”

Using a framework from the Gottman Method, Zach walks them through four powerful questions designed to help couples stay connected, prevent resentment, and strengthen emotional safety:

What did we get right?

How can I specifically appreciate you?

Is there anything we need to repair?

What’s coming up, and how can I support you?

What unfolds is a masterclass in intentional love.

They talk about:

• Learning empathy at a deeper level

• Building safety through micro-moments

• Giving each other the benefit of the doubt

• Taking accountability before blame creeps in

• Naming insecurities instead of letting them grow

• Supporting each other through major life transitions

Robin is launching her book Real Love Ready: A Guide to Relational Literacy. Hector is preparing for a major hiking trip. They’re opening a taco shop. They’re blending families. They’re building businesses.

And through it all, they’re keeping their relationship clear.

This episode is both an update and a practical tool you can use immediately in your own relationship.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• How to conduct a weekly “State of the Union” conversation

• Why positive sentiment must come before hard conversations

• The power of leading with accountability instead of accusation

• How empathy transforms conflict

• Why repair attempts should happen quickly

• How to name insecurities before they become explosions

• What it means to “keep the relationship clear”

• How to support your partner through busy seasons
  

The Four Questions (State of the Union Framework)

If you want to try this at home, here are the questions Zach uses:

What did we get right this week?

How can I specifically appreciate or celebrate you?

Is there anything we need to repair, revisit, or apologize for?

What’s coming up, and how can I support you?

When practiced regularly, this keeps small issues from turning into big ones—and builds an emotional bank account that protects your relationship.

Guest Info

Robin

Founder of Real Love Ready

• Website: https://www.realloveready.com

• Conference (In Bloom): April 10–12

• Book: Real Love Ready: A Guide to Relational Literacy (Available April 7)

Robin’s work centers around relational literacy—breaking down big relationship concepts into practical, learnable skills.

Hector

Entrepreneur, chef, and emotional growth enthusiast.

• Co-founder of their upcoming taco venture

• Creator of a long-perfected chili oil recipe (15 years in the making!)

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In this final session of the three-part series, Brian and Kristen reflect on what has shifted—and what still feels tender.

They don’t have “big crimes” in their marriage. No betrayal. No catastrophe. What they have are patterns. And the courage to look at them.

This episode centers on their struggle around the language of “over-functioner” and “under-functioner.” What started as a helpful framework became a pain point—especially for Brian, whose family-of-origin history makes accusations of “not doing enough” land deeply.

Zach helps them untangle what’s really underneath the label:

• It’s not about over-functioning.

• It’s about expectations.

• It’s about connection before correction.

• It’s about role clarity.

• It’s about appreciation.

Through a simple example—a snowy driveway on the day they learned a friend had died—the couple sees how context, grief, and unmet expectations can spiral quickly. But they also discover something new:

Brian doesn’t need fewer requests. He needs more connection and appreciation first.

Kristen doesn’t need better labels. She needs help carrying the mental and emotional load.

In the end, they shift from asking, “Who’s over- or under-functioning?” to asking:

Who’s showing up right now—and how can we show up better for each other?

Key Takeaways

• Labels can illuminate—but they can also wound

• Context (stress, grief, hunger, fatigue) matters more than theory

• Connection before correction changes everything

• Over-functioning often hides an unspoken request for help

• Defensiveness often protects an old family-of-origin wound

• Appreciation softens difficult conversations

• “What do you want more of?” is more useful than “What do you want less of?”

• Playing the long game means collaborating, not competing
  

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Brian and Kristen return after completing their homework: mapping their recurring conflict pattern step-by-step.

And something shifts.

Instead of focusing on who’s right, they begin identifying when the pattern starts, how it escalates, and where they might choose something different. They talk about having a “good week,” more laughter, and fewer misunderstandings—but Zach presses deeper: Was it luck, or was it intentional?

What unfolds is a layered conversation about stress, chronic pain, medication changes, PMS, defensiveness, and the powerful internal story Brian carries that says, “If there’s a problem, it must be me.” Zach helps them connect the dots between depression’s lies, physiological stress, and how quickly neutral requests can turn into personal threat.

The couple names their 10-step pattern openly—fight or flight, overthinking, mounting a defense, physical withdrawal—and begins experimenting with something new: interrupting the script before it reaches step six.

This episode isn’t about resolution. It’s about pattern awareness and learning how to redirect before old muscle memory takes over.

They close by identifying the next layer to explore in Episode 3: their over-functioner / under-functioner dynamic—and how it triggers deeper family-of-origin wounds.

Key Takeaways

• A “good week” is often intentional, not accidental

• Externalizing the problem (“us vs. the schedule”) strengthens the team

• Physiological stress (sleep, pain, hormones, meds) directly impacts conflict

• Depression distorts perception and reinforces “I’m the problem” narratives

• Defensiveness often protects something deeply valuable

• Mapping a conflict pattern creates space for choice

• Interrupting the script—even once—builds momentum

• Repair matters more than resolution

• “Something new” is the antidote to “more of the same”

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Zach begins a three-part series with Brian and Kristen, longtime MTR listeners who volunteered to work through their marriage challenges in real time.

Brian and Kristen have been together for more than two decades and credit Marriage Therapy Radio as a resource that helped them find language for patterns they felt—but couldn’t name. They describe how listening separately (not together) gave them neutral ground to reflect, build vocabulary, and bring conversations back into their marriage without escalating conflict.

The focus of this first session is a familiar cycle: Brian’s defensiveness, Kristen’s experience of being misunderstood, and the growing frustration around repair always landing on one partner. Zach helps them slow the pattern down, name the dynamics at play, and examine how early family modeling, parenting pressure, and long-term habits have shaped their responses to conflict.

Rather than trying to “fix” the marriage, this episode centers on clarity: understanding what actually happens when things go off the rails, differentiating between feeling attacked and being attacked, and identifying where each partner has agency. Zach reframes responsibility not as blame, but as freedom—emphasizing that each partner can choose how they show up regardless of the other’s behavior.

The episode closes with a concrete assignment: mapping their recurring argument step-by-step so they can externalize the pattern and begin changing it together in the next session.

Key Takeaways

• Long marriages still require new skills as life circumstances change

• Defensiveness often comes from perceived threat, not actual attack

• Feeling misunderstood can be as painful as being criticized

• Responsibility is most powerful when it’s chosen, not demanded

• Repair patterns can unintentionally create resentment

• Taking breaks during conflict can prevent escalation and shutdown

• Naming the pattern creates options for change

• Playfulness and lightness are essential for long-term connection

Why This Episode Matters

This episode offers a rare, transparent look at the beginning of relational work—not the polished outcome. Brian and Kristen model what it looks like to be curious, honest, and willing to be seen while still feeling stuck.

For listeners, this is an invitation to recognize familiar patterns in their own relationships and to remember: insight is the first step, not the finish line.

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