Join us in this contemplative conversation with Jesuit Father Brendan McManus, whose life of pilgrimage and spiritual accompaniment reveals the deep ways walking can transform our hearts and minds. Through stories of the Camino de Santiago, discernment in nature, and the embodiment of Ignatian spirituality, Brendan invites us to see walking as a sacred act of opening ourselves to divine love and presence.

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Main insights from this episode:

• How walking in darkness and dawn can heighten awareness of God's light and love
• The power of embodied prayer through simple gestures and mantras during walks
• Long pilgrimage journeys as transformative spaces for healing grief, fear, and finding clarity
• The significance of discernment in action — listening for God's voice amid movement and challenge
• Ignatian principles of consolation and desolation as guides for interior awareness
• Practical ways to create your own pilgrimage in everyday life and small journeys at home
• The importance of silent, intentional walking for deep spiritual listening
• Insights on processing grief and trauma through the body's movement and reflective practices
• How the ongoing journey continues after the pilgrimage ends, needing space for integration
• God's love as the foundation for our discernment, healing, and calling

Timestamps:00:00 - Welcome and introduction to spiritual wayfinding through pilgrimage02:09 - Brendan shares about walking in the dawn and experiencing God's presence04:54 - The surprising intimacy of walking in darkness and relying on external light06:43 - Long walks in Ireland and Ireland’s pilgrim routes as catalyzers for conversion07:49 - The significance of Camino de Santiago in Brendan’s life and formation08:36 - A profound experience of prayer and trust amidst hardship on the Camino10:19 - Brendan’s journey from careers in IT and psychology to Jesuit ministry12:38 - Reflecting on walking in nature as a source of clarity and listening to God13:19 - Creating space for silence, reflection, and discerning God's call in pilgrimage15:00 - How challenges teach us about humility, moderation, and God's voice17:15 - Embodying discernment in motion, paying attention to interior movements18:46 - Questions and aspirations pilgrims bring to their journeys19:46 - The gift of Ignatian spirituality: noticing consolation and desolation22:49 - The inward and outward half-light as a trail marker for spiritual clarity26:26 - Brendan’s powerful story of grief and healing through a pilgrimage after brother's suicide28:42 - The body’s role in metabolizing grief, and the unfolding process after pilgrimage30:33 - Living the Camino back home: processing long-term transformation32:53 - Grounding in God's love and foundational trust in the spiritual journey37:59 - A simple embodied practice: asking for grace in advance before walking39:42 - Letting nature and prayer unfold naturally, not overcomplicating41:22 - A gentle invitation to observe interior movements: consolation, desolation42:21 - Trust in God's gentle companionship in every step of life’s pilgrimage

Resources & Links:Spiritual Wayfinding by Deb GregoryFather Brendan McManus, SJFinding God in the Mess by Brendan McManusThe Camino de SantiagoCamino Companions MinistryIgnatian Spirituality ResourcesFeel inspired to step into your own pilgrimage—whether walking in nature, reflecting in silence, or carrying sacred rituals into daily life. Remember, God is always walking with us, inviting us deeper into love, trust, and presence.

Meditation music: Documentary Nature by ViacheslavStarostin

Closing Music: Roots by Ryvoli

A New Season of Betwixt Podcast is on the way! Deb Gregory shares the evolution of her podcast journey—from exploring liminal spaces to embracing embodied practices that deepen our spiritual walk. She invites us into a more grounded, movement-centered approach to recognizing God's presence and discovering ourselves along life's liminal passages. Whether you're a seasoned contemplative or just beginning to tune into your body’s wisdom, this episode offers a thoughtfully grounded and nourishing perspective on spiritual transformation.

Key Topics

• The shift from liminality to embodied spiritual practices
• What walking meditations reveal about our internal and external worlds
• How to integrate body awareness into spiritual discernment
• The role of curiosity and clarity in navigating life's passages
• Including neurodivergent-friendly approaches in spiritual formation
• The significance of trail markers—brief insights or research—to orient the journey
• Deb’s new season focus: walking alongside guests through movement and inquiry
• How embodied awareness can deepen our understanding of God's presence
• Practical ways to cultivate a steadier, more embodied spirituality

Where to find Deb:

• Flourish Spiritual Direction
• @spiritualwayfinding on Instagram
• @spiritualwayfinding on Facebook

Timestamps:00:00 - The evolution of Betwixt podcast from liminal spaces to embodiment
00:45 - Introduction to walking meditations and their role in spiritual practice
01:22 - The guest's experience: what surprised and stirred during the walk
01:43 - The concept of trail markers: insights and research to guide us
02:03 - Deepening conversation: whole person spirituality and embodied discernment
02:36 - Walking with guests through their lived experience and body awareness
03:04 - Exploring neurodivergent-friendly approaches to spiritual formation
03:33 - The importance of movement, reflection, and awareness of God's presence
04:02 - Invitation to join the journey and walk with God through embodied practices
04:17 - Encouragement to share and find steadiness in embodied spirituality