Redesigning one of the world’s most-used apps is no small feat, especially when that app is also the second largest search engine in the world: YouTube. Over the last four years, Nate Koechly, UX Director at YouTube, and Matthew Darby, Director of Product Management, have been leading an ambitious effort to balance Google’s metrics-driven culture with the subjective challenge of making an app feel “modern.”

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In our conversation, Nate and Matt share how they developed predictive measurement tools to gauge user perception, why they pair visual updates with quality-of-life features like comment threading and improved video controls, and how their research process has evolved from measuring clicks to understanding satisfied watch time.

We also dig into one of YouTube’s most complex challenges: the algorithm. As Nate and Matt explain, what users say they want doesn’t always match what actually makes them happy on the platform. They also discuss their work exploring ways to give viewers more agency and control, including the possibility of using natural language to tune your feed.

Both guests have a genuine passion for how YouTube enables deep expertise and niche interests to find their audiences—from 3D models of the Golden Gate Bridge to forest fire education from Northern California lookouts. Behind the algorithms and design updates is a platform where, as Nate puts it, “when you give people a voice, the things they say are just inspiring.”

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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:

You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.

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When we last spoke with Bill Burnett, it was in 2020 and he’d just published his book Designing Your Work Life, co-authored by Dave Evans. The world was in the midst of a pandemic, and work and careers seemed very uncertain. Along with their other bestselling book, Designing Your Life, millions of people found guidance and a process for re-framing how to approach their career and life plans in general, inspired by a methodology that Bill taught during his many years in the Stanford design program.

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Over the intervening years, Bill and Dave had countless conversations with people who had—at least to some degree—”figured out” work , family, and friends, but still felt stuck. They were stuck on the question of meaning. Bill told us that asking, “What is the meaning of life?” is not the right question. Instead, we should be asking “How can I find meaning IN life?”. In their new book, How to Live a Meaningful Life, Bill and Dave aspire to give you tools and ideas to help you make a life rich with meaning and purpose.

In our conversation, we dig into the loneliness epidemic, especially among Gen Z, and why so many people look to work to provide meaning when work isn’t actually set up to do that. Bill introduces a powerful framework: Wonder, Coherence, Flow, and Community which are the four components of meaning-making and influence longevity.

If you’ve ever felt like you’re checking all the boxes but still missing something, this conversation offers a practical, design-driven way forward.

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This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:

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To make good creative work, you’ll inevitably do a lot of bad work along the way. So building a thriving creative practice relies on showing up and doing the work consistently, whether you feel inspired or not. And we can get trapped into thinking that if only we had the perfect space, or the best pen, or right notebook, it would all be easier.

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But our guest today, Austin Kleon, has built a remarkable creative practice around a deceptively simple toolkit: index cards, newspapers, scissors, and glue. He’s the bestselling author of Steal Like an Artist, Show Your Work, Keep Going, and Don’t Call it Art. What makes Austin’s approach so valuable is how he’s translated these ideas into a sustainable daily practice that’s lasted over a decade.

In our conversation, Austin shares why he starts every day writing in his diary before he picks up the phone, how constraints (time, space and materials) actually unlock creativity rather than limiting it, and why the path to doing your best digital work might start with picking up a pen.

If you’ve ever struggled to maintain a creative practice, felt overwhelmed by tools and options, or wondered how to keep going when the work feels hard, this episode is for you.

Bio

Austin Kleon is the New York Times bestselling author of a trilogy of illustrated books about creativity in the digital age: Steal Like An Artist, Show Your Work!, and Keep Going. He’s also the author of Newspaper Blackout, a collection of poems made by redacting the newspaper with a permanent marker. His books have sold over two million copies and have been translated into over 30 languages. He’s been featured on NPR’s Morning Edition, PBS Newshour, and in The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. New York Magazine called his work “brilliant,” The Atlantic called him “positively one of the most interesting people on the Internet,” and The New Yorker said his poems “resurrect the newspaper when everybody else is declaring it dead.” He speaks for organizations such as Pixar, Google, Netflix, SXSW, TEDx, Dropbox, Adobe, and The Economist. In previous lives, he worked as a librarian, a web designer, and an advertising copywriter. He lives in Austin, Texas, with his wife and sons. Visit him online at www.austinkleon.com

Every four years, the Olympic Games capture the world’s attention—not just through athletic achievement, but through a complete visual identity that must resonate across cultures, languages, and generations. It’s one of the most demanding design challenges in the world: creating a brand that honors Olympic heritage while reflecting the unique spirit of a host city and region.

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Raffaela Panie is the Brand, Identity and Look Director for the Milano Cortina 2026 Olympic Winter Games—which means she’s responsible for how billions of people will experience these games visually, from the opening ceremony to the medals, from venue designs to digital platforms. It’s a project that requires balancing tradition with innovation, local culture with global recognition, and multiple stakeholders with a singular creative vision.

In our conversation, Raffaela shares what it takes to design for one of the world’s most recognizable brands, how she’s weaving Italian design heritage into the visual language of the games, and the unique challenges of creating an identity that needs to work everywhere from mountain venues in Cortina to urban spaces in Milano—all while serving athletes, spectators, broadcasters, and digital audiences simultaneously.

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We recorded this special live episode of Design Better at Sequoia Capital in Silicon Valley, with our Experts in Residence: Irene Au, Kevin Bethune, and James Buckhouse.

Longtime listeners will recognize these names—Irene appeared on Episode 1 of Design Better, we explored Kevin’s remarkable journey from nuclear engineer to Air Jordan designer in episode 72, and we visited James at Sequoia Capital for a live AMA last year. Together, they’ve shaped how businesses build, how design operates at scale, and how creativity thrives inside technology and venture capital.

Irene Au led the design practices at Yahoo! and Google during their formative years. Now a Design Partner at Khosla Ventures, she coaches designers, executives, and founders from seed stage through exit.

Kevin Bethune is a multidisciplinary design and innovation executive. His career spans nuclear engineering, product creation at Nike, and formal design training at ArtCenter. Kevin wrote two MIT Press books—Reimagining Design and Nonlinear. And he’s the host of the TV show, America ByDesign on CBS.

James Buckhouse is a Design Partner at Sequoia working with founders from idea to IPO to design companies, products, and cultures. His multidisciplinary career spans film (Shrek, Madagascar, The Matrix), fine art (exhibited at the Whitney Biennial and Guggenheim), ballet, and technology (Senior Experience Architect at Twitter).

Over the course of this conversation, we cover the evolution of design in technology, the value of diverse backgrounds in design, how technology is reshaping what designers do and how they work, cross-cultural design perspectives, and much more.

***

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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:

You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.

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***

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There was a time when a movie title sequence was just the moment you grabbed your popcorn and waited for the real show to start. But in the mid-90s and early 2000’s, that changed forever with films like Seven and shows like Mad Men and Stranger Things. The title sequence became a prologue—a metaphor for the film itself.

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Our guest today, Mikon van Gastel, was right there in the trenches of that revolution. After a formative and intense education at the Cranbrook Academy of Art—where the only teachers were artists in residence and your toughest critics were your peers—Mikon cut his teeth at the legendary studio Imaginary Forces.

Today, Mikon is the Co-Founder and Chief Creative Officer of Sibling Rivalry, a hybrid brand studio and production company he founded with his best friend, Joe Wright. They’ve built a reputation for work that blurs the lines between branding, storytelling, and architecture.

In this episode, we explore the sheer scale of modern experience design. Mikon takes us behind the scenes of his work for the Sphere in Las Vegas—a venue he calls the “Champions League of content creation”. We discuss how to design for shared emotion, balancing the “collective gasp” of a 20,000-person audience with moments of intimate connection.

We also dig into the business of creativity. Mikon opens up about the “sleepless nights” of running an agency in a project-based economy and how he refuses to transition fully into a management role, preferring to write treatments and stay hands-on with the work on nights and weekends.

Whether you are designing software interfaces or directing films, Mikon’s philosophy on collaboration and stripping away the noise to serve the core idea is something we can all learn from.

Bio

Mikon van Gastel is Director, CEO, and Co-Founder of creative agency Sibling Rivalry, based in New York and Miami. Originally from Holland, he earned his MFA from Cranbrook Academy of Art before launching his career at Imaginary Forces, where he designed award-winning title sequences for feature films and theatrical trailers.

Van Gastel’s work spans multiple disciplines, with notable projects in architecture and experience design including MoMA’s interactive signage system, BMW World in Munich, the digital displays at Santiago Calatrava’s World Trade Center Oculus, and most recently, immersive films for the world’s first keynote inside The Sphere in Las Vegas. He also created a VR series with renowned curator Paola Antonelli.

He continues to direct commercial campaigns and product launches for major brands including Apple TV+, Ford, Google, Target, BVLGARI, and Vogue, working with high-profile talent such as Drake, Taylor Swift, Lionel Messi, and Lewis Hamilton. Van Gastel speaks internationally about design integration and emerging industry trends at cultural and educational institutions worldwide.

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This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:

You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.

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***

As 2025 draws to a close, it’s time to pause and take stock of what’s been a transformational year in design. From Figma’s landmark IPO to the rise of AI across every category of product, to major brand evolutions at Nike, Netflix, and The New York Times—this year has been defined by what our guest today calls “mass acceleration.”

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Mark Wilson is the Global Design Editor at Fast Company, where he’s been tracking these seismic shifts, reporting on everything from the architecture of data centers to the comeback of wired headphones. He’s a journalist who straddles multiple worlds—covering the design industry, and now co-hosting the By Design podcast. He’s someone who can explain why Labuboos became an unlikely cultural phenomenon and why your kids might be more interested in building with Chompsaw than staring at a screen.

Today, we’re looking back at 2025 with Mark to understand not just what happened, but what it all means. We’ll explore the biggest moments in design and business, and tackle the uncomfortable questions about AI—are we in a bubble? Is it actually making us more productive? And what does the future hold for designers in an automated world?

We’ll also dig into the design industry’s blind spots, the problems that aren’t getting solved because they’re not sexy or VC-fundable, and why there’s a growing hunger for physical craft and working with our hands in a world increasingly mediated by screens.

We’re taking a holiday break, so we’re rewinding to one of our favorite episodes this year with Cassie McDaniel, Medium’s head of design. We’re also including video from the episode, which you can watch here or on our YouTube channel at dbtr.co/youtube. We hope you have a lovely holiday season with your family, friends, and loved ones.

—Eli & Aarron

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Cassie McDaniel, Medium’s head of design, is someone with a clear vision for how a design team should work. She believes team members should have a breadth of skills, craft should be the foundation of product design, and experimentation is important in both work and workflow. To that end, Cassie and the leadership team at Medium recently made what some might see as a controversial decision: They eliminated product management. The result? They are moving faster than ever.

We chat with Cassie about what led to this decision—and why it might not work for all teams, how she thinks about balancing Medium’s legacy of thoughtful design while moving the product forward, and how writing can help you advance your design career.

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This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:

You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.

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A larger than life figure in the creative world, Aaron Draplin has been designing everything from logos to posters since 1995. Few designers are as prolific as Aaron. He’s the founder of Draplin Design Co. (DDC). Priding himself on craftsmanship and quality, the DDC has made stuff for Field Notes, Esquire, Nike, Red Wing, Burton Snowboards, Ford, and he’s even designed a US stamp.

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We caught up with Aaron in person at The James Brand studio in Portland, Oregon, where he walked us through an origin story that begins with a meteor in Navajo country and winds through the skate parks of Michigan in the 80s, the snowboard culture of the 90s, and eventually to one of the most recognizable voices in American graphic design.

But this isn’t just a conversation about making cool stuff—though there’s plenty of that. Aaron opens up about the work ethic he learned from his parents, and why being prolific isn’t about perfection—it’s about experimentation, and loving your work enough to show up every single day.

We talk about collecting, organizing thousands of ideas, and what it means to run a design practice where you can still work on your own terms. And throughout it all, Aaron brings the humor, the heart, and the hard-won wisdom of someone who’s never forgotten what it’s like to work a crappy job—and who reminds himself every day just how cool a life in graphic design really is.

Bio

Aaron Draplin was born in Detroit in 1973 and raised in the small village of Central Lake in Northern Michigan—population 800. After a brief stint at Northwestern Michigan Community College, he moved west to Bend, Oregon at 19 to chase the snowboarding life, and started designing graphics for Solid Snowboards. To fund his winters, he worked summers as everything from a traveling fair pizza wagon cook, to a dishwasher in Anchorage, Alaska.

He eventually returned to the Midwest to finish his design degree at Minneapolis College of Art and Design, before heading back west to become art director of Snowboarder Magazine in Southern California. In 2002, he moved to Portland to work as a senior designer at Cinco Design, where he worked on brands like Gravis, Helly Hansen, and Nixon.

In 2004, Aaron founded Draplin Design Co., working with clients ranging from Nike and Patagonia to Sub Pop Records and the Obama Administration. In 2009, he co-founded Field Notes with Jim Coudal and Coudal Partners—a collaboration that would become one of the most successful and beloved stationery brands in America. That same year, he gave his first public talk, which spiraled into a speaking career that’s now reached over 580 engagements worldwide.

His book Pretty Much Everything was published by Abrams in 2016 and is now in its 13th printing. At 51, Aaron continues to run his fiercely independent design practice from a backyard shop in Portland, Oregon.

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This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:

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Jessica Hische and Chris Shiflett first crossed paths at Studiomates, a Brooklyn based co-working space where some of New York’s most talented designers built businesses and influential organizations.

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Jessica, known for her lettering and illustration work with clients like Wes Anderson and The New York Times, and Chris, whose career spans from the early foundations of the web to co-founding Brooklyn Beta, both experienced firsthand what happens when passionate, independent creatives come together.

Today, they’re channeling those lessons into Studioworks, a business platform built specifically for independent studios and creative professionals. They’re tackling the unglamorous but essential parts of running a creative practice—invoicing, project management, client relationships—with the same care and community spirit that defined those Brooklyn days.

In this conversation, we talk about the magic of Studiomates and Brooklyn Beta, what they learned from running their own studios for years, and why they decided to bootstrap a tool for the creative community rather than chase venture capital. It’s a story about building something sustainable, beautiful, and genuinely useful for the people who make things.

Bios

Jessica Hische is one of the most beloved and influential designers of the past two decades. She’s best known for her lettering and illustration, but equally for her generosity in sharing what she knows. Jessica was part of the original Studiomates community in Brooklyn, has worked with clients like Wes Anderson, The New York Times, and Penguin Books, and now brings her creative leadership to Studioworks, where she and Chris are building better tools for independent creatives and small studios.

Chris Shiflett is a longtime friend of the design community whose career spans the deep foundations of the early web and the heart of the creative world. His early books on HTTP and web security became unexpectedly influential at a time when the internet was still taking shape, opening the door to some extraordinary projects — including one that generated nearly half of the internet’s traffic and another responsible for a fourth of the world’s email. After years helping big internet companies solve scalability problems, he realized he was more inspired by the people creating them — the designers, founders, and builders making things people love. That shift led him to the original Studiomates community, to co-founding Brooklyn Beta, and ultimately to the work he and Jessica are doing today with Studioworks.

Premium Episodes on Design Better

This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books:

You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further.

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It’s that time of year again—our favorite episode to put together. A moment to look back at the objects, experiences, and ideas that sparked creativity for us this year. From books that moved us to tools that surprised us to experiences we can’t stop recommending, we’ve gathered a set of gift ideas for the designers, makers, and curious people in your life (including you).

We’re starting with budget-friendly picks and moving up from there, so whether you’re filling a stocking or going big, you’ll find something here. Let’s get into it.

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Before we get to the list, if you’re looking to give (or get) the gift of education, for the next week only you can get or gift a year of premium for 25% off, our only sale of the year. Buying a year-long subscription will get you to our ever-expanding Design Better Toolkit (with over $2K in discounts on tools and courses), as well as monthly AMAs, ad-free episodes, and our library of books. Doing this also supports anyone who can’t afford a subscription through our scholarship program.

25% off a year, expires in 1 week

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Find the full gift list on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/2025-holiday-gift-guide