We Will Not Be Aging Quietly: Claiming Your Most Powerful Season with Katie Fogarty

Description:

What if the years everyone warned you about turned out to be the ones you'd been waiting for?

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with Katie Fogarty—a former journalist, career coach, and the voice behind one of the most vibrant midlife podcasts in the country, called A Certain Age—for an honest, energizing hour about what it really means to thrive in this season.

Katie launched A Certain Age thirty-five days before her 51st birthday with one mission: blow up the narrative that women become less relevant as they get older. Five years and 230-plus episodes later, she's interviewed hundreds of midlife women—and she has thoughts. Big ones.

They dig into the myths about midlife that refuse to die, why Katie calls this season an "accelerant" rather than an obstacle, what it looks like when women stop waiting for permission and start claiming their lives—and what she's hearing that gives her real hope for the women coming behind us.

If you've ever felt like midlife was quietly trying to make you smaller—this episode is your push back.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “Sometimes the word ‘reinventing’ implies we're completely changing our lives and getting rid of everything that came before. It's more about reimagining, because we're drawing on all of our expertise to apply it in new ways, big and small.” – Katie Fogarty

• “Midlife is that moment where you say, let me get going. The kids are grown, the career maybe is established, life is sort of on track, moving forward, and we have this moment with space in our brain, maybe on our calendar, to actually hit go on whatever it is we've been thinking about for so long.” – Katie Fogarty

• “If you are feeling disconnected from relationships, or like you're not being supported, find people that you are visible to. There are communities of people out there who care about what you care about, who want to see you, who will see you.” – Katie Fogarty

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Jen’s first colonoscopy - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DWz8nTvgo6p/

• Sophie Grégoire Trudeau on Life, Emotional Regulation and Midlife Reinventions - https://www.acertainagepod.com/shows/sophie-grgoire-trudeau-on-life-emotional-regulation-and-midlife-reinventions

• Tamsen Fadal - https://www.tamsenfadal.com/

• Grown Woman Talk: Your Guide to Getting and Staying Healthy by Dr. Sharon Malone - https://amzn.to/4t14kQY

• The New Perimenopause: What’s Actually Happening to Your Body with Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-new-perimenopause-whats-actually-happening-to-your-body-with-dr-mary-claire-haver/

• When Life Happens: The Mindset Shift You Need to Manage Stress, Build Confidence, and Break Free by Dr. Rachel Goldman - https://amzn.to/4mnvZsY

• Midlife Private Parts: Revealing Essays That Will Change the Way You Think About Age - https://www.midlifeprivateparts.com/

• The Midlife Book Club - https://www.themidlifebookclub.com/about

• Jen Hatmaker Book Club - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-club

• Sandwich by Catherine Newman - https://amzn.to/3QauFNM

• Same As It Ever Was by Claire Lombardo - https://amzn.to/4mkK8XI

• The Grand Paloma Resort: A Novel by Cleyvis Natera - https://amzn.to/4meEQNi

• The Secret Book Society by Madeline Martin - https://amzn.to/47MkGnX

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.acertainagepod.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/acertainagepod/

Podcast - https://www.acertainagepod.com/episodes

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:If any conversation belongs squarely in our “The Body Knows: Midlife In Our Skin” series, it’s this one, and for one simple reason — pleasure is a body conversation. Desire is a body conversation. And if midlife has shifted how you feel in your own skin, this episode meets you exactly there.

Vanessa Marin is a licensed psychotherapist, sex educator, and bestselling author of Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life, co-written with her husband Xander. With over two decades of experience helping people dismantle shame and build genuinely intimate relationships, Vanessa brings the kind of candid, warm, and disarmingly funny voice this conversation has always needed.

Whether you're partnered or solo, whether your sex life feels complicated or just quietly neglected, whether you're carrying shame you never asked for — this one is for you. Vanessa is here to help us say yes to communication, to connection, and maybe most of all, to pleasure.

Here's what we're getting into:

• Why so many of us have deeply wired, shame-rooted reactions to sex — and where they actually come from

• Why Vanessa says you should start having sex like a man (yes, really)

• The myth about the female orgasm that most of us were never taught the truth about

• The best things you can do for your sex life that have nothing to do with taking your clothes off

• The difference between spontaneous and responsive desire — and why understanding this might change everything

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “Despite not getting a great introduction to sex or intimacy or relationships, I had this intuitive sense that there should be joy with this act. There should be connection and intimacy, and it should be something I should feel excited to explore when the time is right.” – Vanessa Marin

• “This is literally what I am here on this earth for, is to help people get more comfortable talking about sex, connection, and intimacy.” – Vanessa Marin

• “A lot of people hear, she's a sex therapist. They must have this incredible sex life. The reality is, we've been through ups and downs, too. I am not immune to the water that we all have been swimming in. I've internalized plenty of crap myself. And so I want people to understand we are all struggling to keep that spark alive in one way or another. We are all struggling with our sex lives, with our bodies in one way or another.” – Vanessa Marin

• Research has shown that in male-female relationships, women are carrying the vast majority of the mental load. There is so much that is going through our heads on a daily basis—all this tracking, and preparing, and anticipating, and evaluating, our heads are just constantly going. And when you have so much in your brain, it makes it really hard to make the space for intimacy and desire too.” – Vanessa Marin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life by Vanessa Marin and Xander Marin - https://amzn.to/43VSwnS

• The Sex Talks Card Deck and Guidebook: 90 Prompts to Deepen Connection and Spark Intimacy - https://amzn.to/3Hys1xa

• Vanessa and Xander’s Deeper Monthly Membership - https://buy.vmtherapy.com/deeper

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://vmtherapy.com/about

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/vanessaandxander/

Twitter - https://x.com/VMTherapy

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/vanessaandxander/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/vanessamarin

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@vanessaandxander

Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/vanessaandxander/_created/

Podcast - https://vmtherapy.com/podcast/ 

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:This week, Jen and Amy sit down with double board-certified OB-GYN and reproductive endocrinologist Dr. Natalie Crawford, author of The Fertility Formula, for a wide-ranging conversation about hormones, inflammation, stress, and the powerful (and often misunderstood) signals our bodies are constantly sending.

While Dr. Crawford’s work is rooted in fertility, this episode zooms out to something much bigger: how hormone health reflects our overall well-being — and why midlife is often the moment when the body stops whispering and starts speaking clearly.

But this conversation isn’t just for women trying to get pregnant.

It’s for women in perimenopause and menopause wondering what their bodies are doing now — and why. Because fertility is more than reproduction; it’s a health marker. The same patterns that shape our fertility years — inflammation, hormone signaling, metabolic health, stress — also influence how we experience menopause, what symptoms show up, and what kinds of support our bodies will need.

And it’s also for women stepping into the grandparent years — who want to better understand what their daughters, daughters-in-law, and younger women in their lives are navigating. Because the more we understand our own bodies, the more compassion and clarity we bring to the next generation.

Together, they unpack:

• Why your menstrual cycle (even in its changes) is one of your most important health indicators

• Natalie’s experience with pregnancy loss and how it shaped her approach to women’s health

• The effects of societal and political shifts on women’s reproductive choices

• How cycle awareness can support both fertility outcomes and menopause transitions

Whether or not you are thinking about fertility — or are long past that season — this conversation reframes it as something more expansive: a reflection of vitality, resilience, and how supported your body truly feels across every stage of life.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “We’re living in a different era now, luckily, where women are demanding more knowledge about their bodies.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford

• “I think that my own experience reframed how I educate my patients and the public in taking charge and learning how to listen to your body and believe it. What are those little red flags—whether it's my cycle, whether it's symptoms, whether it's fatigue, and how do I get answers or try to modify those so that I can have more control over what is happening to me?” – Dr. Natalie Crawford

• “Anybody who's trying to sell you a quick fix, especially if it comes in a bottle, is most likely not in your best interest. That doesn't mean there aren't medications or supplements that can help, but that comes after you've done what you can do.” – Dr. Natalie Crawford

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• The Fertility Formula: Take Control of Your Reproductive Future by Dr. Natalie Crawford – https://amzn.to/47HZ1NR

• The New Perimenopause: What’s Actually Happening to Your Body with Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-new-perimenopause-whats-actually-happening-to-your-body-with-dr-mary-claire-haver/

• Fora Fertility Clinic– https://www.forafertility.com/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.nataliecrawfordmd.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nataliecrawfordmd/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/nataliecrawfordmd/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/NatalieCrawfordMD/videos

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@nataliecrawfordmd

Substack - https://substack.com/@nataliecrawfordmd

Podcast - https://www.nataliecrawfordmd.com/podcast

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Some stories feel less like books and more like quiet companions. Theo of Golden is one of those.

This month in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, Jen sits down with author Allen Levi to talk about the small-town novel that has quietly captured the hearts of readers around the world. Set in the fictional town of Golden, Georgia, the story introduces us to Theo — a mysterious newcomer whose little shop becomes an unlikely gathering place for the people around him. As neighbors wander in carrying grief, questions, regrets, and ordinary Tuesdays, something remarkable begins to happen: lives shift, wounds soften, and the quiet work of grace unfolds in the most unexpected ways.

But Allen’s path to writing Theo of Golden is a story of its own.

Before this book found its way into readers’ hands, Allen spent decades living another life — as a litigator and as a musician and songwriter, telling stories in courtrooms and through songs long before he ever sat down to write a novel. In this conversation, Jen and Allen talk about how those two worlds — law and music — shaped the storyteller he would eventually become, and how the long arc of a creative life sometimes leads us somewhere we never expected.

Together, Jen and Allen talk about the beauty of slow stories, the sacredness hiding in ordinary places, and why the most transformative moments in life rarely arrive with fanfare. They explore the characters of Golden, the themes of redemption and belonging woven through the book, and the deeper invitation at the heart of Theo’s story — to pay attention to the people and moments right in front of us.

If you’ve ever believed that kindness still matters, that communities can heal one conversation at a time, or that ordinary lives are full of extraordinary grace, this conversation will feel like coming home.

Grab your coffee, pull up a chair, and join Jen and Allen Levi for a conversation about stories, second acts, and the quiet magic that happens when people really see one another.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “All through the writing of the book, I cried and cried and I'm not an easy crier, but I fell in love with these characters. They still kind of inhabit the space around me. But it told me that there was something bigger going on than just the story. Maybe the better angels of our nature are waking up and bringing something to the surface that maybe is good for us. I hope so.” – Allen Levi

• “I have heard, if you want to write, you just sit down with a pen and you start writing and the story will bubble up. And so I did that and the story never bubbled up. It just frustrated me and frustrated me. That's why I quit so many times, but eventually it started coming together almost like writing a song.” – Allen Levi

• “Everything that I've done professionally has required me to use words to tell stories, usually to persuade people. As a lawyer, I did that. As a singer songwriter, I did that. And now as a novelist.”– Allen Levi

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Theo of Golden: A Novel by Allen Levi - https://amzn.to/47J6V9p

• Allen Levi’s Music - https://open.spotify.com/artist/2UaP04apWp23PxnhKQHJgx?si=3tzeCi3HROqRampni92Dew

• Jen Hatmaker Book Club - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/book-club

• Alan Bradley - https://alanbradleyauthor.com/

• The Flavia de Luce series by Alan Bradley - https://amzn.to/412lNMm

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.allenlevi.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/allenlevi/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/allen.levi.31/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQa2G5Ym0pyNnnK0nocxZ3Q

Substack - https://substack.com/@allenclevi

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:If you’ve ever whispered, Is this it?—if you’ve been doing “all the right things” and still feel that unfinished ache humming under your skin—go ahead and hit download.

Jen is joined by her beloved friend (and actual genius) Kate Bowler to talk about her new book, Joyful Anyway—a bracing, funny, tender rebellion against the optimization industrial complex. This is not a “choose joy” pep talk where somebody sprints past you tossing a Live Laugh Love pillow at your face. Kate is here for the after: after the before-and-after story didn’t pan out, after grief and guilt and longing set up permanent residence, after you realized happiness is fragile and reality keeps kicking in.

Together, Jen, Amy, and Kate name what so many of us can’t quite articulate: the ache—that “achy, stabby want” at the center of our lived experience. They talk about why we need permission just to be human, why “performing resilience” is exhausting, and how telling the truth can loosen the grip of the story that’s been swallowing the rest of our life.

Kate also shares an unforgettable story about a snake bite, an ER, and a moment of unexpected mercy that cracked something open—proof that joy doesn’t always come through the front door. Sometimes it slips in sideways, like grace. Like a sudden, full-bodied yes—even when nothing is resolved.

You’ll also hear about:

• The difference between happiness (fragile and expensive) and joy (sneaky, un-schedulable, and—somehow—free)

• How joy finds us through embodied moments—beauty, absurdity, paying attention

• The Burn Book / Resentment List and why making a “this scarred me, this counted” list might be the most faithful thing you do all week (including Kate’s deeply personal grievance about her tragically unaesthetic family gravesite)

• Roadside Joy Detours: Kate’s practice of putting herself “in the way of joy” with absurd road trips to local oddities

• And Kate’s reminder: you are a song—don’t die with it still inside you

Bottom line: if you’re quietly undone, if your body feels weary, if the headlines have you spiraling—Kate is here with permission, language, and a weird little flashlight. The ache stays. But joy still shows up. Sometimes as grace. Sometimes as absurdity. Sometimes as a roadside attraction you drove two hours to see for no reason—except you’re alive, and that’s reason enough.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “I think there's a great mystery at the heart of the human experience and I wanted to explore joy as one of those unbelievable places.” – Kate Bowler

• “The purpose of that ache inside you is to get you to re-examine how it feels in your body, bring your honesty to it, and then ask, where can I go from here? Where can this take me that's lovelier than here?” – Kate Bowler

• “I find that absurdity is one of the side doors to joy.” – Kate Bowler

• “Joy is asking us to step up to the edge of a mystery where we get momentary fulfillment and then we get life. And God is asking us to say that this is holy.” – Kate Bowler

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Joyful Anyway by Kate Bowler - https://amzn.to/3ZWqNBT

• Kate Bowler book tour - https://katebowler.com/books/joyfulanyway/#tour

• Theo of Golden: A Novel by Allen Levi- https://amzn.to/4bdpN2q

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://katebowler.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/katecbowler/

Twitter - https://x.com/katecbowler

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/katecbowler

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf8m7lNdR7YVieU0muCg5cg

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@katecbowler

Substack - https://katebowler.substack.com/

Podcast - https://katebowler.com/podcasts/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:What does it mean to be okay when nothing is okay?

Not fixed.

Not optimized.

Not cured.

Just… okay.

This week, Jen and Amy sit down with bestselling author and professional weirdo Jenny Lawson to talk about surviving — and sometimes even thriving — inside a brain that does not always cooperate. Jenny’s new book, How to Be Okay When Nothing Is Okay, is a field guide for tender humans: a collection of tiny tools for when the big solutions feel impossible.

Today, we talk about:

• Living with “tiny erratic squirrels” in your head

• Why imposter syndrome gets louder with success

• Learning to live within your real capacity

• Why you’re not failing if it’s just not for you

• Helpful tools like “weird walks”, “body doubling”, “writing Zooms”, 

• The radical courage of simply staying

This conversation explores what happens when we stop trying to override our nervous systems and start listening to them instead. Midlife has a way of stripping away illusion — about productivity, about comparison, about who we’re supposed to be.

Jenny reminds us that sometimes grit looks like finishing the book. And sometimes it looks like taking a drink of water and calling it enough.

If you are exhausted, if you feel behind, if your brain tells you you’re the only one struggling – YOU ARE NOT ALONE. And being “still here” is no small thing.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “Self-help books are super helpful for the right kind of person but I’m not that person.” – Jenny Lawson

• “Keep in mind that what worked for you in the past might not necessarily work for you now or in the future, and that doesn't mean you failed. It just means that's an opportunity.” – Jenny Lawson

• “If you throw humor into a really dark subject, it gives people permission to laugh. And then that big monster becomes so much smaller.” – Jenny Lawson

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• How to Be Okay When Nothing Is Okay: Tips and Tricks That Kept Me Alive, Happy, and Creative in Spite of Myself by Jenny Lawson – https://amzn.to/4qWKZi5

• Samantha Irby – https://www.samanthairby.com/

• A Ghost and His Gold by Roberta Eaton Cheadle – https://amzn.to/405lMH8

• Anne Rice – https://annerice.com/

• Dean Koontz – https://www.deankoontz.com/

• Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno-Garcia – https://amzn.to/475Qp31

• Focusmate (Body Doubling App) -  https://www.focusmate.com/

• Let's Pretend This Never Happened: (A Mostly True Memoir) by Jenny Lawson – https://amzn.to/4rGEBN7

• Furiously Happy: A Funny Book About Horrible Things by Jenny Lawson – https://amzn.to/4u4RBxG

• Broken (In The Best Possible Way) by Jenny Lawson – https://amzn.to/4r3Bhuh

• Jenny Lawson Book Tour - https://thebloggess.com/2026/02/25/how-to-be-okay-when-nothing-is-okay-on-book-tour/

• Jenny Lawson’s Nowhere Book Shop in San Antonio, TX - https://nowherebookshop.com/
  

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://thebloggess.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thebloggess/

Twitter - https://x.com/TheBloggess

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jennythebloggess

Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/thebloggess/

Substack - https://thebloggess.substack.com/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:For years, women in their late 30s and 40s have walked into doctors’ offices saying the same thing: “I don’t feel like myself.”

They’re exhausted but can’t sleep. Gaining weight but eating less. Anxious, foggy, irritable, disconnected. And too often, they’re told it’s stress. Aging. Depression. Just part of being a woman.

But what if it’s something else?

This week, Jen and Amy sit down with board-certified OB-GYN and menopause expert Dr. Mary Claire Haver to talk about what’s really happening in perimenopause — the hormonal transition that can begin years before your final period and affect nearly every system in your body.

Drawing from her new book The New Perimenopause, Dr. Haver explains:

• Why the brain may be the first organ to notice hormone shifts

• Why antidepressants are often prescribed before hormones are even discussed

• The dangerous legacy of outdated research and underfunded women’s health

• How bone density, cholesterol, muscle mass, mood, libido, and cognition are all connected

• And why midlife is not a decline — but a powerful window of opportunity

This is not just a conversation about hot flashes. It’s about the “Zone of Chaos.” It’s about medical gaslighting. It’s about reclaiming your body as your ally, not your enemy.

If you’ve ever whispered, “What is wrong with me?” or spent your sleepless nights up Googling dramatic questions like “is my brain broken?” — this episode is for you.

You’re not broken. You’re not weak. And you are definitely not alone.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “We got some bad f*cking advice…Power through! You built this life. You asked for this. Oh, and also be thin, and make yourself smaller, and don't take up space, and make sure you put everyone in your family before your needs. That's the only way you're gonna be rewarded, elevated, celebrated is on this altar of self-sacrifice. You know what that did for my mother and my grandmother? Dementia and sarcopenia. I’m saying we’re going to take a different path.” – Dr. Mary Claire Haver 

• “Men build rockets. Women build healthcare systems.” – Dr. Mary Claire Haver 

• “One of the good things about menopause is that women lose their give-a-shit filter.” – Dr. Mary Claire Haver

• “I just want menopause to be taken half as seriously as erectile dysfunction.” – Dr. Mary Claire Haver

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• The New Perimenopause: An Evidence-Based Guide to Surviving the Zone of Chaos and Feeling Like Yourself Again by Dr. Mary Claire Haver – https://www.amazon.com/New-Perimenopause-Evidence-Based-Surviving-Yourself/dp/0593736613/

• The New Menopause: Navigating Your Path Through Hormonal Change with Purpose, Power, and Facts by Dr. Mary Claire Haver - https://amzn.to/4aUtrx3

• The Blue Lagoon film (1980) – https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080453/

• Menopause.org

• The International Society for the Study of Women’s Sexual Health (ISSWSH) - https://www.isswsh.org/

• The Pause Life - https://thepauselife.com/

• MidiHealth - https://www.joinmidi.com/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://thepauselife.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drmaryclaire

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drmaryclaire

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@drmaryclaire

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@drmaryclaire

Substack - https://drmaryclairehaver.substack.com/

Podcast - https://thepauselife.com/blogs/the-unpaused-podcast

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:What do we do when the world feels like too much?

When the headlines won’t let up, when grief and uncertainty sit heavy in our bodies, when we’re carrying more than we ever thought we could—how do we keep going without numbing out or falling apart?

This week, Jen sits down with beloved writer and friend Shannan Martin to talk about her new book Counterweights, a tender, practical guide for living with hope in a heavy world.

At the center of Shannan’s work is a deceptively simple idea: when life gets heavy, we don’t eliminate the weight—we learn to carry something equally weighty in the other hand. Not balance. Not denial. But both/and.

Together, Jen and Shannan explore what it means to hold grief and joy at the same time, to resist despair without turning away from reality, and to find steady ground in the middle of it all. They talk about community as survival, faith that evolves and expands, and the small, ordinary moments that become lifelines when everything feels overwhelming.

This conversation is a fitting close to our Wilderness & Wonder exploration—because if the wilderness strips us down to what’s real, Shannan helps us ask: what will hold us up now?

If you’ve been feeling stretched thin, worn down, or just plain tired of carrying it all alone, this episode is for you.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “Now, what are the things that are keeping me going? For me, it’s clawing for those little tiny moments where we can. I need to see myself take care of myself.” – Shannan Martin

• “We have to carry a lot of really heavy things in one hand. We don't choose these things. We would never have asked for them. And we can't just put them down. We don't have control over them. We can't just set them aside. So how do we carry these heavy things? We fill the other hand with heavy goodness.” – Shannan Martin

• “The world feels catastrophic right now. My bowl of curry for lunch cannot cancel that out. There's no amount of beautiful sunsets that can cancel out a diagnosis that nobody wants or these heavy, heavy things that we are tasked with carrying because balance is impossible.” – Shannan Martin

• “When wholeness is our goal, beauty is our emergency.” – Shannan Martin

• “Anytime I can disrupt the algorithm, I feel it in my body.” – Shannan Martin

• “The abundant life is not getting all the things we ever wanted. The abundant life is you get this and this and the task now is to figure out how to carry it.” – Shannan Martin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Counterweights: An Essential Practice for Holding Hope in a Heavy World by Shannan Martin - https://amzn.to/4sRdTRZ

• David Chang - https://www.instagram.com/davidchang/

• 7: An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess by Jen Hatmaker

• Rainer Maria Rilke - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/rainer-maria-rilke

• Sara Miles - https://sara-miles.squarespace.com/bio

• Shannan Martin Book Tour - https://www.shannanmartin.com/counterweights-events

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.shannanmartin.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shannanwrites/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/shannan.garbermartin

Substack - https://www.shannanmartin.com/newsletter

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we are thrilled to introduce you to a voice we think can really help us navigate some of the big life questions we’re facing right now: Suzy Welch. Have you ever wondered, “What should I do with my life?” Or, “Should I stay or should I go?” Or, “Is there anyone out there who actually tells the freaking truth about life and work today, but also does not leave me in despair?” Wonder no more! The “Becoming You” podcast has arrived, hosted by Suzy Welch, the business journalist-turned-professor at the helm of NYU’s wildly popular self-discovery class by the same name.

A three New York Times best-seller and frequent contributor to the Today Show and the Wall Street Journal, Professor Welch is considered a leading expert on decision-making, and the discovery and pursuit of authentic purpose. Join Suzy every week to laugh, learn, get riled up, get calmed down, and basically get closer to becoming you, joyfully, in this crazy, upside-down, scary, messy, and altogether beautiful world we share.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Sometimes a conversation lands so gently—and so powerfully—that it deserves another moment in the light.

In this encore episode, Jen revisits her conversation with poet, writer, and visual artist David Gate, whose work explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience.

Jen first discovered David the way so many of us discover the words that change us: late at night on Instagram, stumbling across a poem that made her stop mid-scroll and immediately send it to six friends. That was the beginning of a quiet fandom that eventually turned into this conversation—one that felt less like an interview and more like sitting in the presence of someone who has learned how to notice beauty in hard places.

David’s work—including his collection A Rebellion of Care—is rooted in the radical idea that tenderness, attention, and compassion are not small acts. They are resistance. They are survival. They are a way through the wilderness.

Together, Jen and David explore the ways language can become a lifeline during difficult seasons. They talk about the courage of softness in a harsh world, the sacred practice of paying attention, and how poetry can give us words for things we thought we had to carry alone.

This conversation sits right at the intersection: the wilderness of grief, uncertainty, and fatigue—and the wonder that still insists on growing in the cracks.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “I did not want to have an email job and I did not want to be in meetings that could have been emails. I did not want to be on Slack. I just didn't want that to be what I was spending my time doing. I loved caring for people, and I loved creating and writing, and I got to do that within the church world.” – David Gate

• 
  

• “It’s a constant battle to speak the truth. Even things we all know It can be difficult to say, if it's not something that is normally said, and it's not something that is normally expressed, so you have to fight for that and you have to fight for your experience of the truth. You have to fight for your story. You have to fight for all of that.” – David Gate

• “I think it's very, very difficult for men to reach for emotional honesty because everything tells you that you're failing if you do that. But it's the most important work right now. And so much of what men are actually looking for in this world, intimacy, a sense of place, a sense of belonging, companionship, adventure, excitement, is on the other side of reaching for that emotional honesty.” – David Gate

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• A Rebellion of Care: Poems and Essays by David Gate - https://amzn.to/4jjf87X

• Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/3GnS21w

• Cultivating Belonging and Evolving Faith with Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/cultivating-belonging-and-evolving-faith-with-jeff-chu/

• Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/

• Armando Veve, Illustrator - https://www.instagram.com/armandoveve/

• Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3YHKgpw

• Sinners film (2025) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/

• Malaprop's Bookstore, Asheville - https://www.malaprops.com/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.davidgatepoet.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davidgatepoet/

Substack - https://substack.com/@davidgatepoet

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Today’s bonus episode is a joy from start to finish. We’re sitting down with treasured friend Anne Lamott—beloved writer, teacher, and spiritual guide—whose voice has shaped how so many of us think about faith, truth, writing, and what it means to be human on the page.

Anne returns to For the Love to talk about her upcoming book, Good Writing, co-written with her husband, journalist and editor Neal Allen. While Neal couldn’t join us today, this conversation is very much about the shared work they created together—a book that isn’t chasing polish or perfection, but clarity, honesty, and respect for the reader.

Good Writing is part craft guide, part philosophy of living. Written in alternating voices, it blends Anne’s signature warmth, humor, and spiritual insight with Neal’s journalistic precision and discipline. Together, they explore what makes sentences work, how voice is formed, why ego gets in the way, and why clarity is not just a stylistic choice—but an act of generosity.

In this intimate and often funny conversation, Jen and Amy talk with Anne about what it was like to co-write a book so closely, what collaboration revealed about trust and restraint, and how writing—at its best—is a relationship. They dig into voice and ego, bad sentences and letting go, rhythm and revision, and why removing what doesn’t serve the sentence can feel like both grief and grace.

But as always with Anne, the conversation goes deeper than craft. This episode explores writing as a way of being in the world—how attention, humility, and courage shape not only our sentences, but our lives. 

If you’ve ever loved Bird by Bird, wrestled with your inner critic, or longed to tell the truth with a little more care—this conversation is for you.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “I only have to do today, today.” – Anne Lamott

• “We write because we try to tell the truth. We try to share our experience, strength and hope.” – Anne Lamott

• “Say what you mean. Mean what you say. And don’t say it mean.” – Anne Lamott

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Traveling Mercies: Some Thoughts on Faith by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4qLZRQR

• Anne Lamott on Faith, Writing, and Radical Self-Love - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/bonus/anne-lamott-on-faith-writing-and-radical-self-love-2/

• Neal Allen - https://www.shapesoftruth.com/

• Good Writing: 36 Ways to Improve Your Sentences by Neal Allen and Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/3NMoKNP

• Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4t7FteL

• Somehow: Thoughts on Love by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/3Z4Nd3r

• Stanley Tucci on the For the Love podcast - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/stanley-tucci-food-memories-and-emotions/

• Amy’s Full of Microplastics and Existential Dread Sweatshirt - https://www.threadless.com/shop/@dinomike/design/full-of-microplastics/womens/sweatshirt

• Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4rlv3Gz

• Jessica Mitford - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Mitford

• Tyler Merritt - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/

• I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/49N1ms8

• Better Days: Tame Your Inner Critic by Neal Allen - https://amzn.to/3LTEVs9

• A Writing Room - https://awritingroom.com/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://awritingroom.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/annelamott/

Twitter - https://x.com/ANNELAMOTT?lang=en

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AnneLamott/

Substack - https://annelamott.substack.com/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices