Description:

In this special episode, we welcome Barnard College professor and accomplished author, Jennifer Finney Boylan, back to the show to discuss her latest labor of love, her book Cleavage, which examines the divisions – as well as the common ground – between the genders, and reflects on her experiences, both difficult and joyful, as a transgender American.

Jenny discusses the importance that things like nuance,imagination, patience, empathy and understanding hold in our divided world, reflecting on her experiences as a transgender woman and noting that for many, “living your best life is not necessarily a political decision, but a matter of life and death.” The ultimate thing she wants, Jenny says, is just to be left alone, to live her life and to be free.

Segments

Bless & Release: Gender stereotypes

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Conversations about trans-women in sports are complicated and demand nuance, patience, and imagination. For us to be defined by the most difficult and controversial aspects of our existence is really unfair. – Jennifer Finney Boylan

I’m not a woman with an asterisk. At 66 ½ years old, my life has a lot more in common with other women my age than you would think. My life does not revolve around me trying to sneak into your daughter’s soccer game. My life revolves around my family, and reading, and teaching my students, and working in the garden, and things that I hope would seem very familiar to people. – Jennifer Finney Boylan

These are hard times. But we do know that hard times come and hard times go. And, whatever this moment is, is not forever. Although I can’t underestimate exactly how hard it is to be singled out by the President of the United States as a person who specifically is not deserving of love or respect or basic human kindness. – Jennifer Finney Boylan

Nobody goes from male to female in hopes of getting a better deal. – Jennifer Finney Boylan

I hope people will pick up and read Cleavage not because they want to understand more about the trans business but because they want to know what sorts of choices people can make when they feel that the world is against them and there is no room for them. I have found, against all odds, that there is room for me, that I have been loved, and, on a good day, the world is full of joy and humor. – Jennifer Finney Boylan

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Cleavage: Men, Women, and the Space Between Us by Jennifer Finney Boylan 

Mad Honey: A GMA Book Club Pick: A Novel by Jennifer Finney Boylan

Roxane Gay

She's Not There: A Life in Two Genders by Jennifer Finney Boylan

Jennifer Finney Boylan’s New York Times articles - https://www.nytimes.com/column/jennifer-finney-boylan

I Am Cait (Caitlin Jenner Show) - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/i-am-cait/umc.cmc.38b55qpveo4xdxypnk03xfvmp

Torrey Peters - https://www.torreypeters.com/

Kate Bornstein - http://katebornstein.com/

Trans Bodies Trans Selves: a Resource Guide for the Transgender Community - http://transbodies.com/

John Barth - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barth

Ben Hatmaker’s marathon post - https://www.instagram.com/p/DGI6wt2OyBL/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Cleavage Tour Schedule - https://us.macmillan.com/tours/jennifer-finney-boylan-cleavage/

Guest’s Links:

Jenny’s website - https://jenniferboylan.net/ 

Jenny’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jenniferfinneyboylan

Jenny’s Twitter - https://x.com/JennyBoylan

Jenny’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JenniferFinneyBoylan/

Jenny’s Medium - https://medium.com/@jennyboylan_97964 

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Title: Midlife Renaissance: Building Your Belonging Circle with Dr Thema Bryant

Description:

Today, we’re revisiting a popular topic on this show: Friendships. More specifically, the revival of our friendships and our capacity for friendships in midlife. How many of us have sacrificed a relationship or a piece of ourselves in order to fulfill the implied demands of our role as a wife or mother or woman with a career? 

Dr. Thema Bryant is a renowned psychologist, author, professor, sacred artist, and minister, who empowers women to connect with themselves and to others by exploring fun and comfortable topics like our control issues and emotional unavailability with practical activation activities and teaching how to shift our mindset and patterns.

Today, we’re delving into the impacts of loneliness, the complexities of navigating new and evolving friendships in midlife, and the importance of self-love and “coming home” to ourselves before we can build a community that can support us in the way we need it to.

Aha moments from this episode include:

• Common reasons why midlife can feel isolating to some women
• The role major life changes (e.g., career shifts, divorce, empty nesting) play in creating a sense of disconnection
• Signs that a friendship or community is not serving us well, including navigating shifts in those friendships and letting go of what no longer serves us and welcoming new connections
• Practical activation exercises, such as writing vows to yourself, that you can practice to strengthen your relationships with yourself and others

Plus, Jen and Amy debut a new segment called “Zero Damns to Give” where they suss out what stuff really matters in this stage of their lives and what can be cast off, allowing them to step into full authenticity—without guilt, shame, or over-explanation.

***

Segments

Zero Damns to Give: Unapologetic midlife edition

Thought-provoking Quotes:

When I observe someone making a polite but clear boundary, I respect it. I’m impressed. – Jen Hatmaker

Can you come to the place where you admit, I miss myself? And myself is not my labor. Myself is not my roles. Myself is a living soul and one of the things that feeds my soul are my friendships but those got neglected because I was told that to be a good leader or to be a good mom, I had to deprioritize the things that nourished me. – Dr. Thema Bryant

If a community is not ready-made, something for you to join, it’s something for you to create. – Dr. Thema Bryant

Our wellness is more important than our loyalty. – Dr. Thema Bryant

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Matters of the Heart: Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love by Dr. Thema Bryant - https://amzn.to/40XMql6

Homecoming: Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole, Authentic Self by Dr. Thema Bryant - https://amzn.to/4hVYQ4c

The Homecoming Podcast with Dr. Thema Bryant - https://soundcloud.com/dr-thema-bryant-davis

Guest’s Links:

Thema’s website - https://drthema.com/

Thema’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dr.thema/

Thema’s Twitter - https://x.com/drthema

Thema’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ThemaBryantDavis

Thema’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxpb1ZdNd6M99Fhaw09H81Q

Thema’s Podcast - https://soundcloud.com/dr-thema-bryant-davis

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Back in the olden days of the 1990s with our dial-up internet and AOL accounts, twelve-year-old Brian Kelly was at home honing his budding interest in travel planning by booking his family vacations and maximizing the reach of his family’s points and frequent flyer miles. Cut to a few decades later and that hobby (which started as a small-time blog powered by affiliate-marketing, which his mom was convinced was a scam) has evolved into a whirlwind operation that the world now knows familiarly as “The Points Guy”. 

Brian Sherpas us through all of the twists and turns of booking travel to eliminate the headaches and get THE MOST bang for our buck.

Highlights from this chat include: 

• Why Brian thinks this is “the Platinum Age of Travel” 
• Mastering family travel – Brian has been to sixteen countries with his two-year-old and is currently planning a month-long trip to Thailand with his newborn so he’s figured this out!
• How, when leveraged correctly, you can finance your travel using your loyalty points
• The 3 main types of rewards to have on your radar
• Surprisingly helpful hacks to avoid jetlag
• And Jen shares a hilarious story about a flight to Spain seated next to a nun that quickly got out of hand

Segments:

Rant or Rave: Early Airport Arrivals

GenXCellence: 80s/90s Travel

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

When people tell me that because of my knowledge, they were able to get the family together this year, that’s why I do what I do.– Brian Kelly

Having points in a transferable currency is like an insurance policy. – Brian Kelly

Find where the deals are. That’s how you really save. Let the deal define your destination, especially if you’re booking multiple tickets. That’s when you save real money. Spend your money on the horseback riding experience, spend it on the meals, and the fun. – Brian Kelly 

You need to be your own advocate. I see people melting down in airports and getting bullied around, screaming at airline agents – the ones who hold all the power. I think people need a mentality shift because they assume they are owed something when they’re not. You need to know when to ask for favor and when you are owed something. It makes all the difference. – Brian Kelly

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

Jen first met Tressie McMillan Cottom the way most normal people meet – under the bright lights on the set of an Oprah special, invited by Ms. Winfrey to speak on a panel, along with other influential voices including Rebel Wilson, Amber Riley, Katie Sturino, Jamie Kern Lima, Busy Philipps and others to talk about diet culture, the harmful narratives we have surrounding our weight and our bodies, and how we can begin reframing the conversation away from one centered in shame to one focused on body acceptance. The entire studio was gobsmacked by Tressie which is fitting given that she is a prominent cultural commentator and Professor at UNC Chapel Hill. Her work explores the loaded and nuanced ideas like racial capitalism, beauty standards, the exploitation of higher education systems, but in a way that we ordinary Joe’s can understand. We knew immediately that she was destined to be a guest on our show and today is the day.

Segments:

Bless & Release: The News Cycle

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

I think every life has a trauma so there’s nothing really special about mine. But whatever your trauma is, you are usually faced with a decision, which is, do I want to be who I was before this or am I going to be something different? – Tressie McMillan Cottom

I love really hard questions. I am my happiest, most connected, most joyful, when I am trying to disentangle a really hard social problem that I think everybody has got wrong. I’m really attracted to those things where our beliefs are totally counter-intuitive, where our gut is telling us something is there but the picture is fuzzy, and I think I’m attracted to that because my path was so abnormal and so unique and I know that I wouldn’t have existed if people had just gone along with what was supposed to be. – Tressie McMillan Cottom

I thought my grandmothers sounded as intelligent as my professors and so I really struggled with the idea that there was something counterfeit or illegitimate about them and their stories and the things that I had learned from them. - Tressie McMillan Cottom

History is weirdly comforting when we can look at our worst impulses and know this isn't the first time we’ve faced this level of chaos and inequality and systemic injustice. It’s just our generation’s turn. – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Leave us a voicemail- https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/ Click the “Send Voicemail” tab on the right side of the page

Pantsuit Politics - https://www.pantsuitpoliticsshow.com/

Allison Gill - https://allisongill.com/

The Daily Beans | News with Swearing - https://www.dailybeanspod.com/

Lower Ed: The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy by Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://amzn.to/4hv6dPF

Thick: And Other Essays by Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://amzn.to/3Co8gWX

Dr. Tressie McMillan Cottom’s New York Times newsletter - https://www.nytimes.com/by/tressie-mcmillan-cottom

Tressie’s MacArthur Fellowship - https://www.macfound.org/fellows/class-of-2020/tressie-mcmillan-cottom

Oprah + Weight Watchers: Making the Shift special - https://www.weightwatchers.com/makingtheshift/?srsltid=AfmBOortVultNvf8Oy7KWezSW1X6uVsvMm9ziScOvAzxUg3XsWQ_2H44

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Cottom’s website - https://tressiemc.com/

Dr. Cottom’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tressiemcphd/

Dr. Cottom’s Twitter - https://x.com/tressiemcphd

Dr. Cottom’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tressiemcmillancottom/

Dr. Cottom’s podcast - https://tressiemc.com/podcast/ 

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Title: No Such Thing As Good or Bad Kids: Dr. Shefali on Conscious Parenting

Description:

Today, we’re taking a trip into the archives to revisit a 2023 episode with renowned clinical psychologist and listener favorite, Dr. Shefali Tsabary, where we dove into the deeply-layered topic of conscious parenting. Those of us in the middle of life, still parenting kids at home, adjusting to parenting adult children who just launched out into the world. or in any season of the parenting journey, really, will find much to learn as we look back (and forward) at our parenting patterns.

Highlights from this convo include:

• Defining conscious parenting and the three stages of the parenting map
• Debunking the notion that as parents we are supposed to create happy, perfect superhumans by following traditional parenting rules
• Dismissing the notion that there are good kids and bad kids—and how to avoid using these labels
• Revealing the five ego patterns that parents might not even realize inform their quest to raise amazing children
• The three reasons why children act out or misbehave and how you can learn not to shame them for it
• The results of over-parenting and how it shows up in your adult children
• How it’s never too late to become a mindful parent

Segments:

Bless and Release: Avoiding difficult conversations

Thought-provoking Quotes:

The evolution of the planet depends on the evolution of the parent. – Dr. Shefali

Everyone wants a new tomorrow. But what we don’t realize is that a new future comes with an absolute willingness to disrupt the past. – Dr. Shefali

There is no such thing as a good kid or a bad kid. So, what kind of kids are there? Just kids – just humans who are terribly flawed like we are, and terribly, but amazingly blissful like we are. They’re just this unique combo and they defy labels. – Dr. Shefali

Punishment, shaming, blaming is never sustainable. I cannot tell you how many times a day I tell parents, ‘Listen, you appear to get control in the moment, but long term, it’s going to be unforgiving.’ – Dr. Shefali

How do we constantly show our presence [to our adult children]? Unequivocal cheerleading. ‘I’m thinking of you. I miss you. I’m remembering you. I adore you.’ Let them know they are on your mind but not involved in their day-to-day. – Dr. Shefali

When the ego crumbles, proportionately the heart expands, and you then are just this heart-centered being able to connect to the other people in a very attuned, compassionate, genuine way. And your children will feel it. – Dr. Shefali

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Conscious Parent by Dr. Shefali Tsabary - https://amzn.to/4aNAPd8

The Parenting Map by Dr. Shefali Tsabary - https://amzn.to/3EER148

Dr. Shefali’s previous interview on For the Love:Releasing The Fantasy of “The Good Girl” with Dr. Shefali Tsabary - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-35/releasing-the-fantasy-of-the-good-girl-with-dr-shefali-tsabary/

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Shefali’s website - https://www.drshefali.com/

Dr. Shefali’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/doctorshefali

Dr. Shefali’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/doctorshefali

Dr. Shefali’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/DrShefali

Dr. Shefali’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@doctorshefali

Dr. Shefali’s Podcast - https://www.drshefali.com/podcast/

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presen

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Description:

Chip Leighton is a guy whose kids describe him as an “unemployed, middle-aged TikTokker“. He has turned the chaos of parenting kids – teens, in particular, into comedy gold. By taking hilarious text from teens and turning them into reels, he keeps the internet in stitches. With his hilarious take on raising teenagers that is so relatable and mirrors so many parents' exact experiences, Chip helps countless moms and dads know that they are not alone in their wild journey. Now he’s compiling the best conversations from texts and real-life moments into his new book, What Time Is Noon?

Chip and Jen talk about: 

• The names we are given as parents of teens: Gangster, Bruh, or Jen’s favorite….Pimp
• Ridiculous questions our kids have asked, such as: Did grandma have kids? Am I a notary? Am I on Medicare? What’s a stamp? 
• Savage burns Chip’s kids have made about his wardrobe: Our favorite – “that looks like the material they make tents from”.
• Endless instructions from the teens on how not to be embarrassing in front of their friends
• Also, Chip tells the story of deciding to leave his corporate job to try his hand at standup (at the urging of one Caroline Rhea).

Segments:

Bless & Release: The clothes we made our kids wear

GenXCellence: Parenting in GenX versus GenZ

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

I’m nostalgic about the feral children going out riding their bikes, building forts, staying out till the streetlights came on. – Amy Hardin

It’s universal, it’s all teens. They don’t know how to dress properly for the weather. But they know what we (the parents) are doing wrong. – Jen Hatmaker and Chip Leighton

You wouldn’t have predicted that I would be funny. Neither of my parents were performers. I wasn’t the class clown. I’ve always had a dry sense of humor and I’ve appreciated that type of comedy, I’ve just kept it inside all these years. – Chip Leighton

I do believe that everybody has some strengths and interests and talents that aren’t necessarily fully leveraged in the typical career or job that they have and these new platforms help bring that out and there are more creative people able to connect with an audience now. – Chip Leighton

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

What Time is Noon?: Hilarious Texts, Ridiculous Feedback, and Not-So-Subtle Advice from Teenagers by Chip Leighton - https://amzn.to/4hp7qrH

Caroline Rhea - https://carolinerhea.com/

Guest’s Links:

Chip’s website - https://theleightonshow.com/

Chip’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/the_leighton_show/

Chip’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theleightonshow/

Chip’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzdstcflneJKZ_Qi5TQAvQQ

Chip’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@the_leighton_show

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

It seemed like a good idea at the time… a twisty, suspenseful thriller set on a cruise ship. How could this not be the perfect story to build a little buzz and excitement in my community ahead of our upcoming Jen Hatmaker cruise? Did we get more than we bargained for?

Ruth Ware’s writing has rightfully been compared to that of suspense-queen, Agatha Christie, for featuring everyday female protagonists often white-knuckling it through some treacherous situations in places where they are isolated from any rescue – a glass house in the woods, an excluded ski resort, a remote tropical island, a boutique cruise ship! 

Today, Jen sits down with the author of our January 2025 JHBC pick to navigate the many twists and turns of The Woman in Cabin 10 and why so many of our readers are losing sleep this month thanks to her innate skill of setting a heart-pounding scene.  

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

People are comparing me to Agatha Christie which is kind of terrifying. The thing that is so brilliant about some of Christie’s books that I love the most is the closed room setting: the terrifying storm-wracked island, the luxury train in the middle of the snow storm, or the Dahabiya drifting down the Nile. What she does so brilliantly is that sense of corrupted luxury, that setting that should be really idyllic turns out horrific and becomes more and more claustrophobic and more terrifying. – Ruth Ware

I have never been on a cruise but I had a chance to look around a ship as a day passenger and I was so surprised by how much I got right. There was so much that I had guessed at and I turned out to be more correct than I ever could have imagined. – Ruth Ware

The way in which you write fear, to me, it feels the truest version of it when it’s not screaming, ‘you’re so scared, you can’t make a sound’ or ‘you’re so scared, you’re frozen – you can’t move.’ That to me, rings true. – Jen Hatmaker

I do try really hard to drop clues and play fair with the reader. I know as a reader, the feeling that I hate most, is what I feel like the writer has cheated me and there was information that I couldn’t possibly have known, stuff I couldn’t have guessed and that I find deeply irritating as a reader. I try always to feel like I played fair with the reader and they did have a chance of guessing it even if they didn’t get there. – Ruth Ware

Isn’t that why we love reading crime? It’s because you can have bad things happen in a fictional world. It doesn’t always get tied up in every single respect and yes, there’s sadness in terms that someone is usually dead. But there is some kind of restorative justice at the end. – Ruth Ware

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Woman in Cabin 10 by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/3DKHCrH

In a Dark, Dark Wood by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/400kQ6g

Agatha Christie - https://www.agathachristie.com/

Below Deck tv show - https://www.bravotv.com/below-deck

The Woman in Suite 11 by Ruth Ware - https://amzn.to/4gKYDk1

The Woman in Cabin 10 on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/the-woman-in-cabin-10-release-date-photos-news

We Live Here Now by Sarah Pinborough - https://amzn.to/4h7kkKN

Guest’s Links:

Ruth’s website - https://ruthware.com/

Ruth’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruthwarewriter/

Ruth’s Twitter - https://x.com/RuthWareWriter

Ruth’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ruthwarewriter/

Ruth’s Threads - https://www.threads.net/@ruthwarewriter

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

In this funny, refreshing, and irreverent conversation about parenting, Jen welcomes Caitlin Murray to the show to talk about her Big Time Adulting community space, the blog (and now podcast) that Caitlin started when her 5-year-old son was in cancer treatment for Leukemia, as a place to connect with other moms and parents craving funny, provocative, no-nonsense entertainment to distract themselves from the hamster wheel of life

Like a big sister, Jen offers encouragement to guide Cailin through the years to come, with the two ultimately agreeing that early childhood is hard but middle school is the real shit show.

They commiserate over: 

• Spirit Weeks, PTA obligations, and signing reading logs
• The idea of the 'Hardship Olympics' that creates unnecessary competition among women / moms
• Comparison parenting and why authenticity resonates more with their communities than curated perfection
• How community and humor that can be found in the everyday chaos of parenting

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

I had begun writing as a therapeutic outlet to family and friends. It was really just for me to put out there how I was feeling on these long days at the hospital and the things that I saw going on around me – the emotion and the stress of it all. I felt like I was protecting myself by saying exactly how I was feeling about what we were going through rather than having anyone assume what I was feeling or thinking. – Caitlin Murray

By the time I had been through hell and back for over three years of pediatric cancer with my son, I knew my worth as a mother. I don’t give a f*ck about what anyone has to say about who I am. I know I am a good damn mom. – Caitlin Murray

The things that you lay in bed at night and obsess over – things that you did poorly, when you lost your shit, you missed something or you messed up – it just falls right out of your kids' brains. It’s not the bones; it’s the soft tissue that sticks and makes it into their adult psyche. ‘I was deeply loved, I lived in a safe, secure home / family, my mom was into me, my mom thinks I’m funny, we laughed a lot in our home.’ That’s the stuff that lasts. Everything else turns into funny, comedic material. – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

McSweeney’s article - Did You Even Consider Every Possible Lived Experience Before Recklessly Posting Your Chili Recipe on Social Media? - https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/did-you-even-consider-every-possible-lived-experience-before-recklessly-posting-your-chili-recipe-on-social-media

Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4h6cwcO

David Sedaris - https://amzn.to/3E48Qtm

Edith Eger - https://amzn.to/4hoXdM4

You’ll Grow Out Of It by Jessi Klein - https://amzn.to/40oiSNm

Guest’s Links:

Caitlin’s website - https://bigtimeadulting.blog/

Caitlin’s Big Time Adulting podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/7nBEnM3JLnpSsyzxWyKZJJ?si=3b76f80afad345b7

Caitlin’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bigtimeadulting/

Caitlin’s Twitter - https://x.com/Caitlin98714163

Caitlin’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBigTimeAdulting

Caitlin’s Soul Snacks Newsletter - https://bigtimeadulting.beehiiv.com/

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Buckle up, listeners. It was only a matter of time before our paths crossed with Mel Robbins, one of the most respected experts on change and motivation in the zeitgeist, and today is that day. Known for being the host of the #1 ranking education podcast in the world, bringing deeply relatable topics, tactical advice, tools, and compelling conversations to her audiences, Jen and Amy spend today’s hour diving into Mel’s “Let Them” theory, which is taking the world by storm, already delivering instant peace and freedom in the lives and relationships of people putting it into practice.

Together, they discuss:

• The difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me”
• Learning to release the white-knuckle grip we hold over other people’s behavior (and other things beyond our control)
• Reframing disappointment to view it as a gift (yes, it’s possible!)
• Repositioning self-worth inward, rather than leaving it dependent on others' opinions.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“For a lot of women, we spend so much time upstairs in our heads as people-pleasers and over-analyzers, over-thinking and ruminating, trying to get things perfect. That’s the last place I should be, personally. I need to drop into my body and get out of my head.” – Mel Robbins

“People reveal who they are and what they care about through their behavior. Ignore their words. Watch their behavior. Let people be who they are. Let them do what they’re going to do. Focusing on them is not where your power is.” – Mel Robbins

“The difference between ‘not my business’ and ‘let them’ is worlds apart. When you say, ‘not my business’, you’re scolding yourself. With, ‘let them’, you’re in the power position because you see what’s happening and are choosing to allow it without allowing it. You’re rising above it.” – Mel Robbins

“There’s something about learning that [people] aren’t ever going to change but that doesn’t mean your relationship can’t change for the better. When you let them be who they are, you create space for acceptance, the whole energy shifts.” – Mel Robbins

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Demotivators - https://despair.com/collections/

Effin Birds on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/effinbirds/

Van Morrison - https://www.vanmorrison.com/

No Hard Feelings by the Avett Brothers - https://open.spotify.com/track/0bgQ1hQrpP6ScdBZlDfLE2

Foo Fighters - https://foofighters.com/

DePeche Mode - https://www.depechemode.com/

The Cure - https://www.thecure.com/

Taylor Swift - https://www.taylorswift.com/

The 5 Second Rule: Transform Your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage by Mel Robbins - https://amzn.to/427OHwu

The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can't Stop Talking About by Mel Robbins - https://amzn.to/4hc53bE

The Mel Robbins Podcast - https://www.melrobbins.com/podcast

The Four Questions: For Henny Penny and Anybody with Stressful Thoughts by Byron Katie - https://amzn.to/3C7tKXT

My Legacy Podcast - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-my-legacy-podcast-255793246/

Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl - https://amzn.to/4ajbyaz

Dr. Stuart Ablon - https://www.stuartablon.com/

The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life by Mark Manson - https://amzn.to/3PCqxmi

Guest’s Links:

Mel’s website - https://www.melrobbins.com/

Mel’s podcast - https://www.melrobbins.com/podcast

Mel’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/

Mel’s Twitter - https://x.com/melrobbins

Mel’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins

Mel’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins

Mel’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melrobbins

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

In this thought-provoking conversation, Jen and Amy speak with “poet laureate of the ordinary” Kelly Corrrigan about the valuable lessons from life she’s reflecting on in this season: the significance of saying hard things, the power of listening and understanding in relationships, observations from parenting and from a career as a writer, podcaster and storyteller, and the importance of participating in democracy, regardless of who is in power. In this episode, which was recorded on Election Day 2024 (prior to knowing the outcome) Kelly uses her trademark wit and steadfast wisdom to offer listeners evergreen words of encouragement for our political landscape and for our lives in whole.

Segments:

Bless & Release: Lies we tell ourselves

GenXcellence: MTV music videos

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“We have created this way of interpreting someone changing their mind as a flip-flopper and we have left no room for someone to grow.” – Kelly Corrigan

“Making is good for individual well-being. Having an inventor’s or innovator’s mindset is just good for society.” – Kelly Corrigan

“Once you say something out loud, it just gets smaller. It packs less of a punch. It’s the stuff that we’re holding and never saying to anyone that’s going to be the death of us.” – Kelly Corrigan

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Strumbellas - https://thestrumbellas.ca/

Arcade Fire - https://www.arcadefire.com/

Mt. Joy - https://www.mtjoyband.com/

Bless and Release sweatshirt - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/collections/apparel-accessories/products/bless-release-sweatshirt

Jamie Wright - https://www.instagram.com/jamietheveryworst/

MTV - https://www.mtv.com/

American Bandstand TV show (1952-1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049993/

Madonna - Like a Virgin - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__rX_WL100

American Top 40 with Casey Kasem (1970-1988) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Top_40

The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan - https://amzn.to/3AgM14g

Tell Me More: Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan - https://amzn.to/3UGcjUf

Kelly’s IG post about the NYC Marathon - https://www.instagram.com/p/DB7IZumy6aR/

National Lampoon’s Animal House film (1978) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077975/

Nantucket Project - https://nantucketproject.com/

Nantucket Project 2024 - Kelly Corrigan’s Annual Wrap-Up - https://nantucketproject.com/2-2024-gathering/

Aspen Ideas Festival - https://www.aspenideas.org/

TED - https://www.ted.com/

Marianne the Maker by Kelly Corrigan and Claire Corrigan Lichty - https://amzn.to/4hBUY92

George Sweetland (illustrator) - https://www.georgesweetland.org/

Bryan Stevenson on Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast/category/Bryan+Stevenson

Jennifer Garner and Christy Turlington Burns on Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jennifer-garner-and-christy-turlington-burns-talking-moms/id1532951390?i=1000654904522

Steve Kerr on Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast/kerrkamau

Guest’s Links:

Kelly Corrigan Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/

Kelly Corrigan Wonders Podcast - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast

Kelly Corrigan Books - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/books

Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/

Kelly’s Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/kellycorriganauthor

Kelly’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@kellycorriganvideo

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

Life throws some challenging stuff at us. Sometimes we rely on traditional therapies and resources trusted in Western medicine to help us through. And sometimes, we need to look to alternative and newly emerging tools to experience the relief or breakthrough that we need. In today’s conversation, Mimi Bouchard, founder of the Activations app (formerly known as Superuman) shares her transformative journey from a troubled adolescence marked by substance abuse and self-doubt to becoming a successful entrepreneur and advocate for personal development. She discusses how her unique approach to 'activations' has helped her and so many others achieve emotional and mental wellbeing by utilizing unique audios that are a mix between a motivational podcast, cinematic music and guided visualization.

From guided visualization practices and breathwork to grounding, reiki, and other body work Jen and Amy also talk about other “woo-woo” wellness approaches that have been useful for them in their healing needs. 

For The Love listeners have an opportunity to try Activations at a steep discount on a yearly subscription by visiting activations.com/jen.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

It was the beginning of a completely new life for me. I’m not going to say that I woke up the next day and I was perfect and completely transformed. It’s obviously a mega-journey and it’s not linear and growth is so messy. – Mimi Bouchard 

I had to believe in myself. The only thing that got me there was just this core deep belief in myself that I had to develop. I didn’t have that in my younger years. Doing this work of personal development was the only thing that mattered when everyone else doubted me. It drove me. At the end of the day, it’s a very lonely journey at the beginning. I had to be alone a lot. I had to be the only one who deeply believed in myself. – Mimi Bouchard

When you’re feeling alive, it slows down time. What a blessing to be able to slow down time – life goes by so quickly. The more things we can do to slow down time, the better our lives will be, and more clear. You have to unnumb yourself. When you numb yourself so much, it’s very hard to get clear or get unstuck. It’s very easy to stay in your old ways and just numb, numb, numb until you just feel nothing anymore. – Mimi Bouchard

I think so much of it is the intention with which you do things. If you are open-hearted and seeking, a lot of tools can benefit you. – Amy Hardin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Success Principles: How to Get from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Jack Canfield - https://amzn.to/3CYaVq7

Activations App - https://www.superhuman.app/home

Activate Your Future Self: The Secret to Effortlessly Becoming the Happiest, Healthiest and Wealthiest You by Mimi Bouchard - https://amzn.to/4gck8t6

Guest’s Links:

Mimi’s website - https://www.mimibouchard.com/about

Mimi’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mimibouchard

Mimi’s Twitter - https://x.com/mimibouchard

Mimi’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/officialmimibouchard

Activations App - https://www.superhuman.app/home

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices