This week, we're revisiting one of the most terrifying series ever produced for PRETEND. It's about a gang-stalking internet group known as The Pests.

Content Advisory: This episode is disturbing and includes language and topics not suitable for all audiences.

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Look, I'm not anti-private school. You want your kid to learn in an environment that matches your beliefs? Cool. To each their own. But should your neighbors be paying for it? North Carolina is funneling half a billion dollars into private schools with almost zero oversight. 87% of new voucher money is going to families who were already paying for private school. Meanwhile, public schools are losing funding and teachers are getting paid near the bottom in the country. In this episode, I talk to a former student, a policy researcher, and a reporter who couldn't find a school that was cashing state checks. Spoiler: it took her seven addresses to track it down.

Stephen Cordes — Former student at the Word of Faith Christian School in Spindale, NC

Kris Nordstrom — Senior Policy Analyst, NC Justice Center Education & Law Project https://www.ncjustice.org/author/kris-nordstrom/

Blair Reeves — Executive Director, Carolina Forward https://carolinaforward.org/about/

Ann Doss Helms — Former Education Reporter, WFAE (Charlotte's NPR station). 22 years covering education in Charlotte. https://www.wfae.org/people/ann-doss-helms

Kris Nordstrom's voucher discrepancy analysis (NC Justice Center) https://www.ncjustice.org/analysis-nc-private-school-voucher-program/

Ann Doss Helms' reporting on TAS Academy (WFAE):

• Charlotte private school had more vouchers than students: https://www.wfae.org/education/2023-06-27/charlotte-private-school-had-more-vouchers-than-students-and-wheres-the-building

• The elusive voucher school — some answers and lingering questions: https://www.wfae.org/education/2023-08-01/charlottes-elusive-voucher-school-some-answers-and-lingering-questions

• Elusive voucher school has a new address in Harrisburg: https://www.wfae.org/education/2024-03-07/elusive-voucher-school-has-a-new-address-in-harrisburg-and-students-are-there

Carolina Forward https://carolinaforward.org

NC Justice Center — Education & Law Project https://www.ncjustice.org

PRETEND Season 3 — Word of Faith Fellowship https://www.pretendradio.org

If you live in North Carolina and you have an opinion about how your tax dollars are being spent on private school vouchers, let your legislators know. They work for you.

Find your NC state representative and senator: https://www.ncleg.gov/findyourlegislators

Call the NC General Assembly directly: 919-733-4111 (ask to speak to your representative or senator)

Public Schools First NC also has a full contact list with emails for every member of the General Assembly, including education committee members: https://publicschoolsfirstnc.org/engage/contact-elected-officials/

You don't have to live in North Carolina to care about this. If your state has a voucher program, find out where the money's going. Ask the questions nobody else is asking.

Got a story idea? Hit me up: [email protected]

GuestsResources & Further ReadingMake Your Voice HeardContact

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Hey guys, it's Javier here with a new recommendation! I've come across a true crime podcast that I just had to share with you all. It's called 'Everything They Missed' and it's hosted by Stephanie Tinsley. This podcast dives deep into the possible wrongful conviction and police mishandling of the Danny Harris case, a particularly gruesome murder that was mishandled from the get-go. What sets this podcast apart is Stephanie's dedication to uncovering the truth, including hiring her own private investigator

https://www.everythingtheymissed.com/

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Criminals have been impersonating ICE agents, using fake badges to rape, rob, kidnap, and terrorize communities across America. These imposters have conducted workplace raids, street stops, and home invasions.

They wear tactical gear, drive unmarked vehicles, and ask "Are you a U.S. citizen?" Our investigation documented 13 cases spanning from 2016 to last week.

We also talk with Laura Jadeed, a reporter who received a job offer from ICE despite skipping most of the application process.

Content Warning: This episode contains descriptions of sexual assault, police violence, and the deaths of U.S. citizens. Listener discretion is advised.

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Patreon supporter Kenito Wills joins Javier to break down the finale of the "Didn't See It Coming" series.

They talk through Susanne Wilson calling off the reading at the last minute. Did she know it was a sting? Did she just have a bad feeling? Javier shares a detail that got cut from the episode: Suzanne actually arranged for the fake family to get a reading with another medium in Europe, which suggests she wasn't 100% sure it was a setup.

Plus: Kenito and Javier swap palm reading stories from college. Kenito was told he'd have five kids (he didn't). Javier was told he'd meet the love of his life right after a bad breakup (he did).

The takeaway isn't that psychics aren't real or that you can't grieve however you want. It's that if someone mentions Reynolds Wrap and your maiden name is Reynolds, maybe ask some questions.

Susan Gerbic's YouTube channel "Psychics Explained" has dozens of videos documenting Operation Banana Cream Pie and other investigations. Link in the show notes.

Watch the full videos of Operation Banana Cream Pie on Susan Gerbic's YouTube page:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

Want to see more psychic stings?

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The sting is set. The bait is in place. Six skeptics are logged into a Zoom call, pretending to be grieving siblings. They've paid $1,400 for a private reading with a medium Susan Gerbic believes is a hot reader. Months of planning have led to this moment.

And then... the medium does something no one expected.

In the finale of this three-part series, we find out what happened to Operation Banana Cream Pie. Then, Susan shares recordings from other readings she's analyzed, walking us through what she believes is evidence of hot reading in action. We break down the techniques, examine the receipts, and let you decide what it all means.

Watch the full videos of Operation Banana Cream Pie on Susan Gerbic's YouTube page:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

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Patreon supporter Christine Harnos (not the Star Trek actress, the other one) joins Javier to break down Part 2 of the "Didn't See It Coming" series before listening to the finale.

They get into the weeds on Susan Gerbic's sting setup: the Facebook accounts she's been maintaining for years, the fake obituary, the hog farm detail. If a psychic mentions pigs, you know something's up. They also discuss the difference between hot reading and cold reading, why "scientifically tested" doesn't mean what mediums want you to think it means, and the troubling relationship between psychic mediums and grief support organizations like Helping Parents Heal.

Christine also shares a strange, unexplainable moment from her own life involving her daughter and a daycare power outage.

Want more? Susan Gerbic documented the entire Operation Banana Cream Pie sting on her YouTube channel "Psychics Explained"—20+ videos of behind-the-scenes footage. Link in the show notes.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

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In Part 1, we watched skeptic Susan Gerbic dissect a celebrity psychic's cold reading techniques. But cold reading is the little leagues of the psychic industry. In Part 2, Susan sets her sights on something harder to catch... a hot reader.

Hot reading is when a psychic does their homework, researching their clients before the reading even starts. So Susan devises an elaborate sting: fake Facebook accounts, fake obituaries, fake family members, and $1,400 worth of bait designed to catch a medium in the act.

Six skeptics go undercover as grieving siblings. They don't know each other. They don't know the backstory. And they have no idea what's about to happen.

This episode takes you inside "Operation Banana Cream Pie." Let's just say, the moment the medium logs onto the Zoom call, no one saw it coming.

ABOUT SUSAN GERBIC:

Susan Gerbic is a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry and founder of Guerrilla Skepticism on Wikipedia, a group that has written over 2,000 Wikipedia articles on science and pseudoscience — viewed more than 200 million times. Her most famous investigation, "Operation Pizza Roll," was featured in The New York Times Magazine and exposed medium Thomas John's hot reading techniques. Susan runs the nonprofit About Time, which funds her ongoing psychic investigations.

Want more? Susan Gerbic documented the entire Operation Banana Cream Pie sting on her YouTube channel "Psychics Explained"—20+ videos of behind-the-scenes footage. Link in the show notes.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

LINKS & RESOURCES:

• Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained

• About Time Project: https://www.abouttimeproject.org/

• NYT Magazine feature on Operation Pizza Roll: https://archive.ph/20190226135004/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/magazine/psychics-skeptics-facebook.html

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Longtime Patreon supporter Rebecca Catalfu joins Javier to unpack her firsthand experience going undercover at Matt Fraser's psychic readings.

Rebecca went into this investigation as a believer and came out the other side with a very different perspective. In this conversation, she and Javier break down the patterns they observed across multiple readings: the decision tree (grandparent, parent, or mystery), the "who is that to you?" fishing technique, the stop statements psychics use when they're not getting hits, and the emotional bell curve that takes grievers to rock bottom before lifting them back up with platitudes.

Rebecca also shares what it was like to make it into the virtual "panelist waiting room," the inconsistencies she noticed while analyzing readings for Susan's YouTube channel, and why she's most concerned about the predatory potential these readings pose to vulnerable people.

Plus: Javier attempts his own cold reading. It does not go well.

LINKS:

Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained

Matt Fraser Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

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Skeptic Susan Gerbic invited PRETEND inside one of her psychic sting operations. In Part 1 of this three-part series, we go inside "Operation Gobble Gotcha," a Thanksgiving sting targeting celebrity psychic Matt Fraser. Susan and her team of volunteers infiltrate one of Matt's online group readings to observe his techniques in real time. What they witness isn't a connection to the other side. It's a technique called cold reading. And once you see it, you can't unsee it.

BINGE ALL THREE EPISODES:

Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/didnt-see-it-2-147839354?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link

PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985

ABOUT SUSAN GERBIC:

Susan Gerbic is a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry and founder of Guerrilla Skepticism on Wikipedia, a group that has written over 2,000 Wikipedia articles on science and pseudoscience — viewed more than 200 million times. Her most famous investigation, "Operation Pizza Roll," was featured in The New York Times Magazine and exposed medium Thomas John's hot reading techniques. Susan runs the nonprofit About Time, which funds her ongoing psychic investigations.

LINKS & RESOURCES:

• Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained

• About Time Project: https://www.abouttimeproject.org/

• NYT Magazine feature on Operation Pizza Roll: https://archive.ph/20190226135004/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/magazine/psychics-skeptics-facebook.html

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PRETEND's first live YouTube AMA, co-hosted by Patreon supporter Katie Watson. The conversation covers listener questions about the making of PRETEND, behind-the-scenes stories, and what's coming next.

Highlights include: how Javier knows when a story is worth pursuing (hint: it's like fishing) and his techniques for getting interview subjects to let their guard down. He shares updates on past subjects including LaDonna and Frank Abagnale.

Looking ahead to 2026: Season 25 kicks off next week with psychic stings featuring undercover Patreon supporters. Also coming: State of Corruption (North Carolina), a caught-on-camera confessional, and a Word of Faith Fellowship update—the DA supposed to try the case is now on trial himself.

00:00 Intro

02:53 Katie's Podcast Journey

04:08 The Art of Storytelling

06:09 Balancing Bias in Journalism

07:49 Building Trust with Interviewees

13:33 Balancing Podcasting and Life

14:55 Ponzi Playbook & Criminal Conduct

17:22 Scariest Interview Subjects

20:08 LaDonna Updates

26:15 Red Flags and Trust

27:37 Telepathy Tapes

30:58 The Truth in Storytelling

34:36 Interview Techniques

37:20 Biggest Challenges in Podcasting

39:14 Balancing Truth and Twists

42:37 Family Reactions

44:11 Maintaining Neutrality

45:19 Dream Project: Speed Dial

46:56 What's Coming in 2026

50:06 Proudest Series

58:35 Word of Faith Update

01:03:33 Season 25 Announcement

• Blind Dave (Katie's YouTube show "Only in the UK"): https://youtube.com/@blinddave88

• Decoding the Unknown: https://youtube.com/@decodingtheunknown2373

• The Greatest Hoax on Earth by Alan Logan: https://a.co/d/gIHDef2

ChaptersLinks

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