Making this episode was a special treat, not least because it didn’t end up being anything like the episode I thought I’d be making! But it’s so much better … kind of like one of those conversations where you enter with a spirit of humility, listen generously, and allow your mind to be changed. As someone who specializes in helping people have better conversations across differences, I devoured Lara Hope Schwartz’s book Try to Love the Questions: From Debate to Dialogue in Classrooms and Life (Princeton UP, 2024). I reached out to Professor Schwartz, who teaches at American University, hoping we could talk about her excellent book and maybe learn some more about the program she founded and directs at AU, called the Project on Civic Dialogue.

She accepted my invitation, but suggested that the best way to learn about the Project on Civic Dialogue would be to talk as well with some of the student facilitators who moderate conversations and lead other events that PCD sponsors at the university. I am delighted to present my conversation about PCD and its work, featuring current American University students Grace Manson and Arjun Mishra, alumna Khushi Ramnani, and Professor Schwartz.

READ THE TRANSCRIPT “Our commitment is to listen. To hold the flame of our voices in a shared space, and commit to connect and actively participate in a deliberate and intelligent manner.” — Khushi Ramnani '24

Professor Schwartz’s book addresses college students as its target readership, but anyone interested in better conversations will profit from this engaging read. Including worthwhile reflection and writing prompts with each chapter (and activities for professors in the appendix), the book is logically laid out, clearly written—and leavened with the same wit you hear in our podcast conversation. For example, my fave chapter epigraph is “‘An opinion is not an accomplishment.’ —ME. I SAID THAT.”)

As always, books ordered from my site benefit neither me nor Jeff Bezos in any way. I link to listings from bookshop.org, which helps to support independent booksellers.

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ABOUT PROFESSOR SCHWARTZ. Lara Hope Schwartz is a lawyer and former civil rights strategist who teaches in the School of Public Affairs at American University in Washington, D.C., where she is founding director of the Project on Civic Dialogue. She co-authored How to College: What to Know Before You Go (And When You’re There) with Andrea Malkin Brenner (MacMillan, 2019).

ABOUT PCD. To learn more about The Project on Civic Dialogue at American University, here’s their site.

PRODUCTION SUPPORT. Special thanks to PCD Program Coordinator Rahul Kirkhope for his logistical support with this episode.

RELATED MATERIALS. I’ve done about a dozen episodes on topics related to dialogue, so please browse the back catalog at whim! A recent fave of mine is The Certainty Trap with Ilana Redstone. In this PCD conversation, I suggested that schools would be well-served to take up our relationship with our phones as a high-interest, nonpartisan topic. Here’s my op-ed about that from earlier this year.

MUSIC. Point of Learning’s signature intro and outro are special instrumental versions of “Weight of the World” and “Villainous Thing” from Shayfer James’ 2011 album Counterfeit Arcade. This episode also features instrumental versions of “Learning to Be Lost” and “Devils and Rebels” (both including fiddle lines by a podcaster who may be typing this right now) from Shayfer’s 2023 album Shipwreck. All of Shayfer’s music is used by Point of Learning with the artist’s explicit permission. To find the latest tour and new release information for Shayfer James, visit his website.

SPECIAL THANKS

Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn. To make an episode that sounds like this takes me and my staff of zero other people about 40 hours. Even a nominal gift helps with everything from audio software patches to buying my copy of Try to Love the Questions: From Debate to Dialogue in Classrooms and Life. There are two easy ways to donate!

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Justin McDaniel and I discuss two of his unconventional courses at the University of Pennsylvania: “Existential Despair,” a literature class where students read entire books in single, seven-hour sessions without phones or note-taking to read for experience rather than information; and “Living Deliberately,” where students adopt monastic practices like silence and dietary restrictions to understand voluntary discipline.

McDaniel is the Edmund J. and Louise W. Kahn Endowed Professor of the Humanities at Penn. Currently serving as chair of the Department of Religious Studies, McDaniel specializes in Buddhism and Southeast Asia.

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To learn more about Justin McDaniel and his work, visit his website. The excellent feature by Dave Zeitlin for The Pennsylvania Gazette (May/June 2025) on the two courses we focus on in this episode is linked here.

MUSIC. Point of Learning’s signature intro and outro are special instrumental versions of “Weight of the World” and “Villainous Thing,” respectively, authorized by their creator, Shayfer James, from his 2011 album Counterfeit Arcade. To find the latest tour and new release information for Shayfer James, visit his website. This episode features additional tracks composed and performed by Rinde Eckert.

SPECIAL THANKS

Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn. To make an episode that sounds like this takes me and my staff of zero other people about 40 hours. Follow David’s advice in today’s patron break and consider a one-time or recurring donation, which helps keep the lights on! There are two easy ways to donate!

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Eric Hudson and I discuss the role of artificial intelligence (AI) in education, exploring how schools and educators can approach AI in a human-centered way. We talk about the misconceptions schools have about AI, the need to rethink traditional notions of "cheating" and academic integrity, the importance of active engagement with AI tools, and the need for comprehensive AI literacy education for both students and teachers.

Eric Hudson is a facilitator and strategic advisor who supports schools in making sense of the changes brought about by emerging technologies like AI. He has extensive experience working with schools and learning organizations around the world, and he specializes in learner-centered assessment, human-centered leadership, and strategic program design.

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To learn more about Eric Hudson and his work, visit his website. The name of his Substack newsletter is Learning on Purpose. During our conversation, we referred to a framework for AI literacy by Digital Promise, linked here.

MUSIC. Point of Learning’s signature intro and outro are special instrumental versions of “Weight of the World” and “Villainous Thing,” respectively, authorized by their creator, Shayfer James, from his 2011 album Counterfeit Arcade. To find the latest tour and new release information for Shayfer James, visit his website. This episode features additional tracks by DJ Sluggy (aka Sluggz).

SPECIAL ASSISTANTS. Shoutouts to Heidi (murf.ai) and Claude (anthropic.ai) for augmenting today’s production. See below.

A screenshot of Peter’s interaction with Claude, a chatbot from anthropic. ai. Claude generated the response captured here in 2-3 seconds. (6/30/25)

SPECIAL THANKS

Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn. To make an episode that sounds like this takes me and my staff of zero other people about 40 hours. Be like Heidi (except more human) in today’s patron break and consider a one-time or recurring donation, which helps keep the lights on! There are two easy ways to donate!

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At some point during my video call with Jonathan Rauch on April 9th, 2025, it began to dawn on me that my planned release date for this episode would be on or around the 100th day of the second Trump Administration. It also occurred to me that I could not be speaking with someone better qualified to throw into vivid relief some of the dimensions of what this means. An expert on government, Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. He has written nine books and hundreds of articles and essays—often on policy, but also on topics ranging from gay marriage to agriculture to animal rights to height discrimination.

I have wanted to speak with Jonathan Rauch since 2021, when I first read his masterful book The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth. The first half of our conversation centers on this book, with special attention to the propaganda and other cognitive warfare tactics Trump has adapted from the likes of Roy Cohn and Vladimir Putin. In the second half of our conversation, we discuss Rauch’s 2025 book Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy, which marks a profound shift in Rauch’s own thinking, and makes the case, based on arguments advanced by the Founders as well as contemporary events, that the U.S. requires a healthier relationship with the kind of religious practice Jesus himself embodied in order to endure. 

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ABOUT THE AUTHOR. To learn more about Jonathan Rauch and his work, visit his page at the Brookings Institution. If you’re craving more insights specific to Trump 2.0, check out his February 2025 piece for The Atlantic.

RELATED EPISODE. During our conversation, Jonathan Rauch mentions an influential lecture by Jonathan Haidt. If you’d like to listen to or watch the YouTube version of my 2020 interview with Professor Haidt, it’s available here.

MUSIC. Point of Learning’s signature intro is a special instrumental version of “Weight of the World” authorized by its creator, Shayfer James, from the 2011 album Counterfeit Arcade. To find the latest tour and new release information for Shayfer James, visit his website. Because Jonathan Rauch indicated his appreciation for Maestro JoAnn Falletta’s 2023 performance of Antonín Dvořák’s 7th Symphony in D minor (Opus 70) with the Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra, Peter obtained Maestro Falletta’s permission to use this recording in the show. To hear (or watch the video version) of Peter’s interview with JoAnn Falletta, click here.

SPECIAL THANKS

Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn. To make an episode that sounds like this takes me and my staff of zero other people about 40 hours. Be like Aaron Bartley in today’s patron break and consider a recurring donation, which helps with everything from audio software patches to buying my copy of Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Christianity. There are two easy ways to donate!

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PoL Sponsors: Aaron Bartley, Gilberto Belaval, Mary Rappl Bellanti, Raj Bhandari, Melinda Bihn, Gretchen & David Brand, Jenni and Robbie Brand, Jake Brown, Heather Carson-Wake, Patty Cruice, Ryan Daly, David Davis, James Duggan, Dave Eisenberg, Phillip Ellis, Anna Falicov, Errick L. Greene, Krista Haley, Jonathan Hiam, Gregory Horn, Janice & John & Ava & Brooke Horn, The Idari Collective, Greg Jackson, Kevin Johnson, Zack Kramer, Maureen and Alan Lantis, Tim Lear, Janet & Robert Lee, Kristen Lee, Robyn Lee, Tom Loughlin, Susan Lytle, Carol MacVey, Jacob Marley, Linda B. Matt, Ellen McLaughlin, J. W. Gregg Meister, Miriam Meister, Sarah & Peter Meister, Dwight Nolt, Julia Olff, Monica & Rowland Richards, Gail & Frank Richeson, Friends of Diana Rochford, Stacy Rodgers, Robert Rossiter, Elizabeth & Terry Rowlands, Paula A. Roy, Dale Schmid, Brendan Sullivan, Emily Style, Marue Walizer, John B. Webb, Keith Zemsky, Vana Zervanos

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This year, I’ll be focusing more than usual on the podcast on how we can have better conversations, especially with people we disagree with. I’m honored to kick things off with someone whose new book I really love. Ilana Redstone is the author of The Certainty Trap: Why We Need to Question Ourselves More―and How We Can Judge Others Less, published in September 2024. With a joint Ph.D. in demography and sociology from the University of Pennsylvania, she’s a sociology professor at the University of Illinois, where her course about the sociology of political polarization is called “Bigots and Snowflakes.”'

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ABOUT THE AUTHOR. To learn more about Ilana Redstone and her work, visit her website.

I mentioned The National SEED Project during today’s show as an exemplary DEI program. Learn more about their work in my SEED Folk episode from 2019.

More about FALLACIES. I shared with Dr. Redstone that I liked to teach kids about fallacies as common liabilities in constructing arguments that humans are prone to commit. Here’s my blog post about that.

MUSIC. In addition to standard intro (“Weight of the World”) and outro (“Villainous Thing”) music from Shayfer James’ 2011 album Counterfeit Arcade, underscore from this episode features an instrumental version of “Devils and Rebels” from Shipwreck (2023). (You betcha I was the one playing that fiddle doubling that theremin.) To find the latest tour and new release information for Shayfer James, visit his website.

SPECIAL THANKS

Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn. To make an episode that sounds like this takes me and my staff of zero other people about 40 hours. Be like Jake Brown in today’s patron break and consider a recurring donation, which helps with everything from recording equipment batteries to buying my copy of The Certainty Trap: Why We Need to Question Ourselves More―and How We Can Judge Others Less. There are two easy ways to donate!

Learn more

PoL Sponsors: Aaron Bartley, Gilberto Belaval, Mary Rappl Bellanti, Raj Bhandari, Melinda Bihn, Gretchen & David Brand, Jenni and Robbie Brand, Jake Brown, Heather Carson-Wake, Patty Cruice, Ryan Daly, David Davis, James Duggan, Dave Eisenberg, Phillip Ellis, Anna Falicov, Errick L. Greene, Krista Haley, Jonathan Hiam, Gregory Horn, Janice & John & Ava & Brooke Horn, The Idari Collective, Greg Jackson, Kevin Johnson, Zack Kramer, Maureen and Alan Lantis, Tim Lear, Janet & Robert Lee, Kristen Lee, Robyn Lee, Tom Loughlin, Susan Lytle, Carol MacVey, Jacob Marley, Linda B. Matt, Ellen McLaughlin, J. W. Gregg Meister, Miriam Meister, Sarah & Peter Meister, Dwight Nolt, Julia Olff, Monica & Rowland Richards, Gail & Frank Richeson, Friends of Diana Rochford, Stacy Rodgers, Robert Rossiter, Elizabeth & Terry Rowlands, Paula A. Roy, Dale Schmid, Brendan Sullivan, Emily Style, Marue Walizer, John B. Webb, Keith Zemsky, Vana Zervanos

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Robin Bernstein is the Dillon Professor of American History and Professor of African and African American Studies and Studies of Women, Gender, and Sexuality at Harvard University. In this episode we discuss her latest book, Freeman's Challenge: The Murder That Shook America's Original Prison for Profit. Published by the University of Chicago Press in May 2024, it led Dr. Bernstein to—among other places—a packed fellowship hall at North Presbyterian Church in Williamsville, New York, where I got to hear her give a talk about it in July. I bought a copy of the book 5 minutes later, immediately certain that this story would captivate the Point of Learning audience just as it had me. It’s a compelling example of a mantra I used with my students: if you pursue any single area of interest far enough, you’ll see that it’s connected to everything else. In this case, “Through one Black man, his family, and his city, Robin Bernstein tells an explosive, moving story about the entangled origins of prison for profit and anti-Black racism” (from the book jacket).

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ABOUT THE AUTHOR. To learn more about Robin Bernstein’s work, visit her website.

Mentioned at the end of our conversation, 13th Forward is the legislative coalition of advocates, grassroots organizations, and impacted people working to end exploitation and brutality within our prison labor system. It draws its name from the 13th Amendment, which outlawed chattel slavery with one exception: “as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted.” Learn more about their work here.

MUSIC. In addition to standard intro (“Weight of the World”) and outro (“Villainous Thing”) music from Shayfer James’ 2011 album Counterfeit Arcade, additional underscore from this episode includes instrumental versions of “700 Days” and “Troublemaker” from Shipwreck (2023). To find the latest tour and new release information for Shayfer James, visit his website.

SPECIAL THANKS

Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn. To make an episode that sounds like this takes me and my staff of 0 people about 40 hours. Be like Raj Bhandari in today’s patron break and consider a recurring donation, which helps with everything from recording equipment batteries to buying my copy of Freeman’s Challenge: The Murder That Shook America’s Original Prison for Profit. There are two easy ways to donate!

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PoL Sponsors: Aaron Bartley, Gilberto Belaval, Mary Rappl Bellanti, Raj Bhandari, Melinda Bihn, Gretchen & David Brand, Jenni and Robbie Brand, Jake Brown, Heather Carson-Wake, Patty Cruice, Ryan Daly, David Davis, James Duggan, Dave Eisenberg, Phillip Ellis, Anna Falicov, Errick L. Greene, Krista Haley, Jonathan Hiam, Gregory Horn, Janice & John & Ava & Brooke Horn, The Idari Collective, Greg Jackson, Kevin Johnson, Zack Kramer, Maureen and Alan Lantis, Tim Lear, Janet & Robert Lee, Kristen Lee, Robyn Lee, Tom Loughlin, Susan Lytle, Carol MacVey, Jacob Marley, Linda B. Matt, Ellen McLaughlin, J. W. Gregg Meister, Miriam Meister, Sarah & Peter Meister, Dwight Nolt, Julia Olff, Monica & Rowland Richards, Gail & Frank Richeson, Friends of Diana Rochford, Stacy Rodgers, Robert Rossiter, Elizabeth & Terry Rowlands, Paula A. Roy, Dale Schmid, Brendan Sullivan, Emily Style, Marue Walizer, John B. Webb, Keith Zemsky, Vana Zervanos

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I’ve wanted to record an episode with Dr. John Webb for a long time, because there’s almost no one with whom I’ve had so many conversations about what matters in education. An educator possessed of a deeply humane approach to kids, John strives to know each student as an individual—and has taught several generations of teachers to do the same. He began his career as a teacher of French in Spring Valley, New York, a suburban community in Rockland County, about an hour north of New York City. He began teaching teachers during his years at Hunter College High School in Manhattan, where he also served as Chair of World Languages. He led Princeton’s Program in Teacher Preparation for 10 years, during which time he co-founded the Princeton University Preparatory Program, or PUPP, a summer institute for bright high school students from families with low income. Now John has written a book called Molyvos: A Greek Village’s Heroic Response to the Global Refugee Crisis, which personalizes and individualizes a humanitarian crisis that is usually too enormous to comprehend. (Photo: Nelson Mondaca)

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MUSIC. To find the latest tour and new release information about Shayfer James, visit his website. Underscore and filigree soundtrack on this episode courtesy of artists who share their work via Pixabay: Nver Avetyan, Elen Lackner, Alexander Lisenkove, and Andrews Rodriguez.

REAGAN SPEECH from 1980. If you’re interested in reading, hearing, or watching the full remarks from then-Governor Reagan, they’re available here, courtesy of American Rhetoric online speech bank.

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Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn. Be like Vana Zervanos in today’s episode and consider a one-time gift, which helps with everything from recording equipment batteries to gas money for road trips to Cooperstown. There are two easy ways to donate!

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PoL Sponsors: Aaron Bartley, Gilberto Belaval, Mary Rappl Bellanti, Raj Bhandari, Melinda Bihn, Gretchen & David Brand, Jenni and Robbie Brand, Jake Brown, Heather Carson-Wake, Patty Cruice, Ryan Daly, David Davis, James Duggan, Dave Eisenberg, Phillip Ellis, Anna Falicov, Errick L. Greene, Krista Haley, Jonathan Hiam, Gregory Horn, Janice & John & Ava & Brooke Horn, The Idari Collective, Greg Jackson, Kevin Johnson, Zack Kramer, Maureen and Alan Lantis, Tim Lear, Janet & Robert Lee, Kristen Lee, Robyn Lee, Tom Loughlin, Susan Lytle, Carol MacVey, Jacob Marley, Linda B. Matt, Ellen McLaughlin, J. W. Gregg Meister, Miriam Meister, Sarah & Peter Meister, Dwight Nolt, Julia Olff, Monica & Rowland Richards, Gail & Frank Richeson, Friends of Diana Rochford, Stacy Rodgers, Robert Rossiter, Elizabeth & Terry Rowlands, Paula A. Roy, Dale Schmid, Brendan Sullivan, Emily Style, Marue Walizer, John B. Webb, Keith Zemsky, Vana Zervanos

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To mark the 50th episode milestone, I’ve teamed up with Greg Jackson of Action J Productions to discuss our new video project called Point of Learning Master Class (not to be confused with the very well funded instructional video series whose registered trademark does not include a space between “Master” and “Class”). Like the late, great journalist Bill Greider, we believe the essential unit of democracy is not the voting booth, but the conversation, so we have chosen civil discourse as our first topic. If you agree with us that it’s never been more urgent to get better at having hard conversations across divides, please share this episode or the video below with your friends, family, and especially the high school teachers in your life!

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NEW CIVIL DISCOURSE VIDEO!

The citations for sources mentioned in podcast audio (and provided in captions on the video): Jill Harrison Berg, Christine Connolly, Abda Lee, and Emmanuel Fairly. “A Matter of Trust: How a Boston Turnaround School Built Its Plan for Improvement Around Relational Trust,” Educational Leadership, March 2018; They Say/I Say. Gerald Graff and Kathy Birkenstein. They Say/I Say (Norton, 2009), pp. 133-135.

WATCH "RESPECTFUL CONVERSATIONS” (14 min.)

RELATED EPISODES

Click on image to visit the show page of related episode.

LEADING IN SYNC with Jill Harrison Berg (Episode 16)
NO BAD FOOD with Britt Schuman-Humbert (Episode 33)
BABY, UNPLUGGED with Sophie Brickman (Episode 38)
US+THEM with Jonathan Haidt (Episode 27)
TALKING TV with Kevin Johnson (Episode 1)

SOUNDTRACK NOTES

Gil Scott Chapman originally developed his tracks inspired by Mose Allison for “Leading with Mind and Heart with Errick Greene” (Episode 28).

Molly Colvin originally mixed the tracks underscoring segments featuring Lily Flast and Keith Zemsky for the episode “Crystallizing Coronavirus with Sarah Bowman” (Episode 31).

SPECIAL THANKS

Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn. As Keith Zemsky drives home in today’s episode, gifts of even a few dollars from folks like you help with everything from recording equipment batteries to renewing newsletter subscriptions. There are two easy ways to donate—a one-time gift of any amount, or a monthly continuing contribution.

Learn more

Current donors include: Aaron Bartley, Gilberto Belaval, Mary Rappl Bellanti, Raj Bhandari, Melinda Bihn, Gretchen & David Brand, Jenni & Robbie Brand, Jake Brown, Heather Carson-Wake, Patty Cruice, Ryan Daly, David Davis, James Duggan, Dave Eisenberg, Phillip Ellis, Anna Falicov, Errick L. Greene, Jonathan Hiam, Gregory Horn, Janice & John & Ava & Brooke Horn, Robyn Lee Horn, Greg Jackson, Kevin Johnson, Zack Kramer, Tim Lear, Janet & Robert Lee, Kristen Lee, Tom Loughlin, Susan Lytle, Carol MacVey, Jacob Marley, Linda B. Matt, Ellen McLaughlin, J. W. Gregg Meister, Miriam Meister, Sarah & Peter Meister, Dwight Nolt, Julia Olff, John Opera, Monica & Rowland Richards, Gail & Frank Richeson, Friends of Diana Rochford, Stacy Rodgers, Elizabeth & Terry Rowlands, Paula A. Roy, Emily Style, Marue Walizer, John B. Webb, Keith Zemsky, Vana Zervanos

get in touch

I’m currently transitioning platforms for the newsletter, but if you have thoughts, questions, suggestions, or want more information about anything related to the Point of Learning podcast or the new Point of Learning Master Class video series, please drop me a line!

EMAIL POINT OF LEARNING

If you’ve listened to this podcast for any amount of time, you’re already familiar with the music of Shayfer James. Shayfer’s songs “Weight of the World” and “Villainous Thing” have opened and closed nearly every episode since I started this podcast passion project in 2017.

As an artist, Shayfer James has made a name for himself in the world of what is generally classified by Apple Music as indie rock, although some music critics apply the description “pop-noir” as they reckon with the darkness in some of his lyrics. His music is wide-ranging in style and color, so it’s hard to pigeonhole, but I agree with the reviewers who describe it as “captivating,” sometimes “swaggering,” and “moving,” “with a hint of mystery and surprise.”  (Photo: Errol Colandro)

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WHERE TO FIND SHAYFER JAMES

Here’s where to find all the information about his music, lyrics, videos, merchandise, and more! If you’re interested in the Spring 2024 tour, he’s got a tab for that too!

SHAYFER JAMES WEBSITE

SELECT COLLABORATIONS WITH SHAYFER JAMES

CLICK HERE FOR SJ COLLAB YOUTUBE PLAYLIST

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CLICK HERE FOR SJ COLLAB YOUTUBE PLAYLIST 🎵 CLICK HERE FOR SJ COLLAB YOUTUBE PLAYLIST 🎵

RELATED EPISODES

WHAT IS PROJECT ‘79? THIS IS RADIO, DAMMIT! WITH BILL SIEMERING "OF SURPASSING WORTH” —MARCUS FOSTER (1923-1973)

SPECIAL THANKS

Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn. Gifts of even a few dollars from folks like you help with everything from recording equipment batteries to renewing newsletter subscriptions. There are two easy ways to donate—a one-time gift of any amount, or a monthly continuing contribution.

Learn more

Current donors include: Aaron Bartley, Gilberto Belaval, Mary Rappl Bellanti, Raj Bhandari, Melinda Bihn, Gretchen & David Brand, Jenni & Robbie Brand, Jake Brown, Heather Carson-Wake, Patty Cruice, Ryan Daly, David Davis, James Duggan, Dave Eisenberg, Phillip Ellis, Anna Falicov, Errick L. Greene, Jonathan Hiam, Gregory Horn, Janice & John & Ava & Brooke Horn, Robyn Lee Horn, Greg Jackson, Kevin Johnson, Zack Kramer, Tim Lear, Janet & Robert Lee, Kristen Lee, Tom Loughlin, Susan Lytle, Carol MacVey, Jacob Marley, Linda B. Matt, Ellen McLaughlin, J. W. Gregg Meister, Miriam Meister, Sarah & Peter Meister, Dwight Nolt, Julia Olff, John Opera, Monica & Rowland Richards, Gail & Frank Richeson, Friends of Diana Rochford, Stacy Rodgers, Elizabeth & Terry Rowlands, Paula A. Roy, Emily Style, Marue Walizer, John B. Webb, Keith Zemsky, Vana Zervanos

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On March 5th 2024, Peggy McIntosh was inducted into the National Women’s Hall of Fame! In observation of Women’s History Month and celebration of this momentous achievement, I’m re-dropping our conversation from five years ago—which remains all too relevant as we continue to wage media wars over cultural issues (such as White Privilege) and devastating traditional wars over territory and religion.

VISIT 2019 SHOW PAGE

MEET THE WOMEN OF THE HALL

2024 National Women’s Hall of Fame inductees. Peggy’s class also includes Patricia Bath, Ruby Bridges, Elouise Cobell, Kimberlé Crenshaw, Judith Plaskow, Loretta Ross, Sandy Stone, Anna Wessels Williams, and Serena Williams. Click the button for thumbnail biographies.

2024 NATIONAL WOMEN'S HALL OF FAME INDUCTEES

National Women’s Hall of Fame. Established in 1969, the National Women’s Hall of Fame (Seneca Falls, NY) now includes Peggy and 311 other U.S. trailblazers such as Bella Abzug, Abigail Addams, Madeline Albright, Louisa May Alcott, Marian Anderson, Maya Angelou, and Susan B. Anthony, to select just a few of the luminaries whose last names begin with A!

MEET THE WOMEN OF THE NATIONAL HALL OF FAME

ON PRIVILEGE, FRAUDULENCE, AND TEACHING AS LEARNING: SELECTED ESSAYS 1981-2019

Published by Routledge in 2019. If you want to copy and paste the discount code, here it is: FLR40.

USE DISCOUNT CODE FLR40 TO GET 20% OFF

SPECIAL THANKS

Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn. Gifts of even a few dollars from folks like you help with everything from recording equipment batteries to renewing newsletter subscriptions. There are two easy ways to donate—a one-time gift of any amount, or a monthly continuing contribution.

Learn more

Current donors include: Aaron Bartley, Gilberto Belaval, Mary Rappl Bellanti, Raj Bhandari, Melinda Bihn, Gretchen & David Brand, Jenni & Robbie Brand, Jake Brown, Heather Carson-Wake, Patty Cruice, Ryan Daly, David Davis, James Duggan, Dave Eisenberg, Phillip Ellis, Anna Falicov, Errick L. Greene, Jonathan Hiam, Gregory Horn, Janice & John & Ava & Brooke Horn, Robyn Lee Horn, Greg Jackson, Kevin Johnson, Zack Kramer, Tim Lear, Janet & Robert Lee, Kristen Lee, Tom Loughlin, Susan Lytle, Carol MacVey, Linda B. Matt, Ellen McLaughlin, J. W. Gregg Meister, Miriam Meister, Sarah & Peter Meister, Dwight Nolt, Julia Olff, John Opera, Monica & Rowland Richards, Gail & Frank Richeson, Friends of Diana Rochford, Stacy Rodgers, Elizabeth & Terry Rowlands, Paula A. Roy, Emily Style, Marue Walizer, John B. Webb, Keith Zemsky, Vana Zervanos

NEWSLETTER

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One hundred and eighty years ago, on 19 December 1843, the first edition of Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol was published. To celebrate, I’m releasing a special version of the story. Produced in 2001, this is the shortest edition of the story that I ever recorded (see below for the longer and medium-length editions). It’s also very meaningful to me, because it’s a collaboration with William R. Mathews, who back in 1998 invited me to begin performing dramatic readings in Westfield, New Jersey, where we were both teaching high school. I loved the opportunity to make music with current and former students, singing with members of the Westfield Chorale. There’s less than 20 minutes of storytelling in this episode—just a few lines of each of the “staves” of Dickens’ “carol”—but there’s lots of great music! (Photo of Bill Mathews and me by Gretchen Meister Brand. At some point we discovered we owned the same tie, and made a point of wearing it for one at least one of the Chorale performances each December.)

Mr. Mathews in rehearsal with the Chorale at First Baptist Church (Westfield, NJ).

CHOOSE YOUR SCROOGE

Full length. This 75-minute program was recorded live on 16 December 2017, the 20th annual dramatic reading at First Baptist Church in Westfield, New Jersey. The episode features Michael Rosin on organ, including his original remix of Shayfer James’ “Weight of the World” as intro and outro. The Westfield High School Concert Choir was prepared by its directors, John Brzozowski and Maureen Francis.

A CHRISTMAS CAROL LIVE AT FBC (2017)

Medium length. A Graycliff Christmas Carol is shorter and stranger to behold than a standard live performance. It only takes 39 minutes to listen to or watch the spectacular Frank Lloyd Wright-set 2020 version produced as a benefit for the Graycliff Estate on the edge of Lake Erie. Although the total production is shorter than today’s episode, the narration is fuller, with comparatively less music. Carols are performed by singers from the Vocalis Chamber Choir. The (highly recommended) video features photography by Full Circle Studios and visual design by John Opera.

“I give you Mr. Scrooge!” Christmas Present (including Bob Cratchit’s toast) is set in the kitchen at Graycliff. The video showcases five other locations in the Frank Lloyd Wright-designed home. (Production photo by John Opera)

A GRAYCLIFF CHRISTMAS CAROL (2020)

SPECIAL THANKS

Many people support this podcast in one way or another. Sometimes they sing with me, take photos, offer suggestions, roll tape, or play a pipe organ like it’s the lungs of the place. Some are able to contribute financially, which sustains this passion project to share great ideas about what and how and why we learn—including from literature and music. Gifts of even a few dollars from folks like you help with everything from recording equipment batteries to Graycliff gas money. There are two easy ways to donate—a one-time gift of any amount, or a monthly continuing contribution.

Learn more

Current donors include: Aaron Bartley, Gilberto Belaval, Mary Rappl Bellanti, Raj Bhandari, Melinda Bihn, Gretchen & David Brand, Jenni & Robbie Brand, Jake Brown, Heather Carson-Wake, Patty Cruice, Ryan Daly, David Davis, James Duggan, Dave Eisenberg, Phillip Ellis, Anna Falicov, Errick L. Greene, Jonathan Hiam, Gregory Horn, Janice & John & Ava & Brooke Horn, Robyn Lee Horn, Greg Jackson, Kevin Johnson, Zack Kramer, Tim Lear, Janet & Robert Lee, Kristen Lee, Tom Loughlin, Susan Lytle, Carol MacVey, Linda B. Matt, Ellen McLaughlin, J. W. Gregg Meister, Miriam Meister, Sarah & Peter Meister, Dwight Nolt, Julia Olff, John Opera, Monica & Rowland Richards, Gail & Frank Richeson, Friends of Diana Rochford, Stacy Rodgers, Elizabeth & Terry Rowlands, Paula A. Roy, Emily Style, Marue Walizer, John B. Webb, Keith Zemsky, Vana Zervanos

NEWSLETTER

Don’t miss an episode! Let me have your email address, and I’ll let you know after a new episode drops. 100% free, and takes only 12 to 19 seconds to fill out the form.

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