On this week's episode of "Cannonball," Jon and Joe sit down with Wesley Morris and Sasha Weiss to discuss how The New York Times Magazine's 30 Greatest Songwriters list came together. They rehash their biggest debates from the process, react to the perceived snubs, engage with reader comments and share some of their personal regrets.

- Watch the video episode here.
- Read the full list here.

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Using excerpts from Swift’s new songwriting chat with Joe, he and Jon go deep on the exclusive interview, which is available in full at NYTimes.com/Taylor-Swift.

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A lively conversation with the Oscar-winning actress about her role as a Taylor Swift-Lady Gaga hybrid pop singer (with songs by Charli XCX and twigs, who makes an interview cameo!) in the new A24 film “Mother Mary,” plus: “The Devil Wears Prada 2” and how Hathaway shook off her old, awkward self. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.