In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Steven C. Hayes, Ph.D., originator of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, creator of Relational Frame Theory, and one of the most cited psychologists in the world.

Full Show Notes: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-363/?ref=278

Hayes reflects on his early experiences in the Summer of Love, why psychedelics were never meant to be treated as a party, and how those formative explorations helped shape his lifelong work on psychological flexibility. Paul and Steven explore what psychedelics can reveal about the nature of self, the role of preparation and context in safe outcomes, and why psychedelic therapy must not be reduced to a patented, "script and go" biomedical model. Their conversation also examines ACT, trauma, attachment, group experience, spiritual community, and the importance of honoring each person's unique path rather than forcing transformation into averages, labels, or protocols.

Steven C. Hayes, Ph.D., is a Nevada Foundation Professor of Psychology Emeritus at the University of Nevada, Reno and President of the Institute for Better Health, a 45-year-old charitable organization that promotes quality in mental and behavioral health services. He is the originator of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, creator of Relational Frame Theory, and a co-developer of Process-Based Therapy. Hayes has authored nearly 750 scientific articles and 48 books, including Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life and A Liberated Mind. His methods are distributed worldwide by the World Health Organization and other major scientific agencies, and are commonly used in psychedelic-assisted therapy. His TEDx talks and blogs have been viewed or read by more than five million people, and he is among the most cited psychologists in the world.

Highlights:

• Psychedelics as tools of the mind
• The Summer of Love's unfinished lessons
• Self as context and spiritual awareness
• Why good trips feel like coming home
• ACT as psychological flexibility
• Preparation, safety, and lasting change
• The danger of "script and go" psychedelics
• Group ceremony and relational healing
• Particularity, averages, and human uniqueness
• Psychedelics beyond the therapy frame

Episode Links:

• Steven's Website
• Steven on Medium
• Steven Instagram
• Steven on Linkedin

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes."

In this conversation, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Dave Rabin, neuroscientist, board-certified psychiatrist, and co-founder of Apollo Neuroscience, about one of the most important questions in psychedelic work: why do some journeys become overwhelming, destabilizing, or difficult to integrate?

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-362/?ref=278

Dave explains why safety is not just a matter of set, setting, or a strong screening form. It is a physiological state in the nervous system. Together, Paul and Dave explore how fear, trauma, and dysregulation can shape a person's ability to receive and process a psychedelic experience, and why preparation must include a deeper understanding of the body.

The conversation also covers pre-session nervous system assessment, vagus nerve activity, HRV, haptic vibration, breathwork, therapeutic touch, consent, and the role of tools like Apollo Neuro in helping clients feel safe enough to surrender, process, and integrate.

Dr. David Rabin, MD, PhD, is a neuroscientist, board-certified psychiatrist, health-tech entrepreneur, and inventor who has studied the impact of chronic stress in humans for more than a decade. He is the co-founder and Chief Innovation Officer at Apollo Neuroscience, and co-founder and executive director of the Board of Medicine, a nonprofit organization establishing evidence-based clinical guidelines for the safe use of unregulated alternative medicines, including plant medicines. His research focuses on non-invasive therapies for treatment-resistant conditions, trauma recovery, psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, and the neurobiology of belief. Highlights:

• Why safety is physiological
• Beyond set and setting
• How fear interrupts healing
• Pre-session nervous system assessment
• MDMA and the safety cascade
• Haptic vibration and soothing touch
• HRV as a preparation signal
• Breathwork for embodied regulation
• Consent and therapeutic touch
• Scaling safe psychedelic care

Episode Links:

• Apollo Neuro
• Dr. Dave Rabin on Instagram
• Dr. Dave's Book, "A Simple Guide to Being Alive"

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

These show links may contain affiliate links. Third Wave receives a small percentage of the product price if you purchase through the above affiliate links.

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin sits down with Dr. Stefanie Kleine, psychospiritual coach, author of BE THE WORK, and co-founder of The Sacred House of Eden, to explore the hidden wound that often drives achievement and why lasting transformation happens on the level of being rather than doing.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-361/?ref=278

Drawing on more than two decades of experience coaching executives, founders, athletes, physicians, and other high performers, Stefanie shares how her first psychedelic experience revealed the pattern beneath a lifetime of accomplishment and opened a path toward deeper self-acceptance. She explains her framework of grasping versus generative desire, the Be-Do-Have inversion, and why many personal growth and wellness practices can unintentionally reinforce the same striving they aim to heal.

The conversation also explores psychedelic integration, Internal Family Systems-informed coaching, conscious leadership, nervous system regulation, AI and human connection, and what it means to move from proving your worth to inhabiting it. Throughout, Stefanie offers a grounded perspective on why ceremony is only the beginning and how true transformation unfolds through the choices we make afterward.

Dr. Stefanie Kleine is a psychospiritual coach, guide, and author who has spent more than 23 years coaching executives, founders, attorneys, physicians, athletes, and other high performers. She holds a master's degree and PhD in psychology and is the co-founder of The Sacred House of Eden, one of the leading psychedelic retreat centers in the United States. Since 2018, she has guided more than 1,600 ceremonies and integration processes. Her work centers on what she calls the Be-Do-Have Inversion: the shift from human doing to human being. She is the author of BE THE WORK: The Shift from Human Doing to Human Being and has been featured in Bloomberg, The Wall Street Journal, and Forbes.

Highlights:

• The wound beneath high achievement
• Stefanie's first psychedelic awakening
• Grasping versus generative desire
• Why transformation happens on the being level
• The Be-Do-Have inversion
• Psychedelic integration beyond ceremony
• Internal Family Systems and coaching
• Conscious leadership after psychedelic work
• AI, humanity, and authentic connection
• Moving from striving to wholeness

Episode Links:

• Dr. Stefanie's website
• The Sacred House of Eden
• "BE THE WORK" book
• Free Guided Meditation by Dr. Stefanie
• Dr. Stefanie on Instagram

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this solo episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin explores one of the most common questions in the psychedelic space: which psilocybin mushroom strain is actually best?

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-360/?ref=278

Moving beyond the search for the "strongest" mushroom, Paul breaks down the factors that truly shape a meaningful experience, including strain selection, potency, preparation methods, storage practices, individual sensitivity, and the critical role of context.

Drawing on years of experience through Third Wave and the Psychedelic Coaching Institute, Paul compares popular strains such as Golden Teacher, Penis Envy, Ghost, Enigma, and Psilocybe natalensis. He also explains why preparation methods like lemon tekking matter, how to think about microdosing versus macrodosing, and why integration remains one of the most important variables in long-term outcomes.

Paul F. Austin is an entrepreneur, educator, and pioneer in the psychedelic field. He is the founder of Third Wave, a leading platform dedicated to psychedelic education, and the Psychedelic Coaching Institute, which trains coaches and practitioners to responsibly support psychedelic experiences and integration. As the host of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul has interviewed hundreds of leading researchers, clinicians, indigenous wisdom keepers, entrepreneurs, and cultural innovators at the forefront of the psychedelic renaissance.

Highlights:

• Why stronger isn't always better
• The myth of the strongest strain
• Golden Teacher vs. Penis Envy
• Understanding Ghost and Enigma
• Psilocybe natalensis explained
• How lemon tek changes the journey
• Why storage affects potency
• Microdosing vs. macrodosing
• Context shapes psychedelic outcomes
• Integration beyond the peak experience

Episode Links:

• Paul on Instagram
• The Psychedelic Podcast
• The Psychedelic Coaching Institute

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this special solo episode, adapted from a recent live training, Paul F. Austin explores one of the most important and often overlooked realities of microdosing: different substances create different outcomes.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-359/?ref=278

Drawing on more than a decade of experience in psychedelic education and coaching, Paul compares psilocybin, LSD, huachuma (San Pedro), ketamine, and iboga through the lens of client goals, nervous system regulation, emotional processing, cognitive performance, and contraindications.

Paul explains why generic microdosing protocols often fall short, how practitioners can better match substances to individual needs, and why context, preparation, and integration matter far more than any single medicine. He also shares why huachuma has become the foundation of the Psychedelic Coaching Institute's microdosing methodology and offers guidance for practitioners looking to support clients with greater precision and care.

Highlights:

• Why generic microdosing protocols can fall short
• How psilocybin supports emotional processing and inner work
• LSD's role in focus, creativity, and physiological performance
• Why huachuma may be especially useful for nervous system regulation
• Ketamine's role in SSRI tapering and clinical support
• Iboga's potential for neurodegenerative conditions and brain injury
• How to match substances to a client's goals and baseline state
• Why contraindications and clinical-grade intake matter
• How microdosing can support post-journey integration
• Why "more medicine" is not always the answer

Episode Links:

• Paul on Instagram
• The Psychedelic Podcast
• The Psychedelic Coaching Institute

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Jason Grechanik, master tabaquero and host of The Universe Within Podcast, for a deep exploration of sacred tobacco as Amazonian plant medicine.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-358/?ref=278

Sacred tobacco is usually understood in the West through the lens of cigarettes, addiction, and commercial misuse. But in Amazonian traditions, Nicotiana rustica is understood very differently: as a master plant, a protector, and a powerful medicine that requires lineage, discernment, and right relationship.

Drawing from nearly a decade of Amazonian immersion and more than 1,000 people guided through plant ceremonies, Jason shares how tobacco is worked with in dieta, ayahuasca ceremony, energetic protection, and direct relationship with plant spirits. Paul and Jason also discuss cannabis, indigenous cosmologies, safety, and what tobacco's history can teach the modern psychedelic movement about power, humility, and proper containers.

Jason Grechanik is a master tabaquero trained in the Mamankunawa tradition under curandero Don Ernesto Garcia Torres. With nearly a decade of Amazonian immersion and more than 1,000 people guided through plant ceremonies, Jason spent many years at the renowned Shipibo healing center Temple of the Way of Light. He is the host of The Universe Within Podcast, with 180+ episodes and 20K+ monthly listeners, co-founder of the Nicotiana Rustica project, and has been featured in DoubleBlind Magazine.

Highlights:

• Jason's path into Amazonian tobacco medicine
• Tobacco beyond commercial cigarettes
• Why tobacco is considered a master plant
• Dieta as direct plant relationship
• Tobacco as portal and protector
• Ayahuasca, diagnosis, and plant doctors
• Safety, toxicity, and proper containers
• Jaguar and hummingbird tobacco archetypes
• Cannabis, dreams, and plant relationship
• Lessons for the psychedelic renaissance

Episode Links:

• The Universe Within Podcast
• Nicotiana Rustica Project
• Jason on Instagram

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Chandra Estelle Khalifian, a clinical psychologist, relationship researcher, and co-founder of Enamory, about the intersection of attachment science, couples therapy, and psychedelic-assisted healing.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-357/?ref=278

Drawing from her work in ketamine-assisted couple therapy and MDMA research, Chandra explores how relationships are shaped by nervous system regulation, attachment wounds, and patterns developed long before adulthood.

The conversation examines how ketamine and MDMA can help couples move through rigidity, betrayal, grief, and disconnection by creating greater emotional openness and flexibility. Paul and Chandra also dive into conscious uncoupling, relational growth, community, and the deeper distinction between love as a feeling versus love as a practice.

Chandra Khalifian, Ph.D. is a clinical psychologist, researcher, and educator specializing in psychedelic-assisted couple therapy. She co-founded Enamory, alongside Dr. Kayla Knopp, a private practice clinic, training institute, and research foundation based in San Diego, California. Their work focuses on ketamine-assisted couple therapy, including clinical data collection and therapist training programs designed to support practitioners integrating psychedelic-assisted couple therapy into their practices. Chandra's work bridges attachment science, nervous system regulation, relationship psychology, and psychedelic medicine.

Highlights:

• How Attachment Shapes Adult Relationships
• Ketamine for Breaking Relational Rigidity
• Why Secure Attachment Feels Safe
• MDMA for Betrayal & Repair
• Conscious Uncoupling Without Hatred
• Why Love Alone Isn't Enough
• Healing Grief Through Psychedelic Therapy
• Couples Therapy as Nervous System Work

Episode Links:

• Enamory Website
• Enamory Couples KAP Training
• Enamory on Instagram
• Dr. Chandra on Instagram

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Lauren Macdonald, a clinical trial physician and psychedelic therapist, about the evolving role of community in psychedelic-assisted therapy.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-356/?ref=278

Lauren shares insights from her work at Imperial College London, where she contributed to research on psilocybin for anorexia and fibromyalgia, as well as DMT for treatment-resistant depression. She reflects on the limitations of purely individual therapeutic models and explores how group-based approaches can foster deeper healing through connection, shared experience, and what she describes as communitas.

The conversation also touches on the contrast between clinical and ceremonial settings, the role of group dynamics in emotional processing, and the challenges of access and affordability as psychedelic therapy expands.

Dr. Lauren Macdonald has a background in psychiatry, psychedelic-assisted therapy, and group retreat facilitation, working at the intersection of science, soul, and spirit. At the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London, she has served as a clinical trial doctor and psychedelic therapist on studies exploring psilocybin for anorexia and fibromyalgia, and DMT for treatment-resistant depression.

Highlights:

• Psilocybin therapy in clinical research
• Limits of individual therapy models
• Why group work deepens healing
• Communitas and shared experience
• Bridging science and spirituality
• Psychedelics in palliative care
• Relational safety in altered states

Episode Links:

• Lauren Macdonald's Website
• The Reconnection: Women's Psilocybin and Somatic Retreats
• Bridging Worlds: 6-Month Training

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with David Adam Burns, a transformational coach, artist, and founder of The Mysteries, about what may be missing from today's psychedelic conversation.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-355/?ref=278

David challenges the emphasis on insight in psychedelic work, suggesting that deeper transformation comes through presence, healing, and embodied evolution. He outlines a framework for healing through integration, purification, and emotional "thawing," and explains why presence may be the most important skill for navigating psychedelic experiences.

They also explore myth and storytelling as tools for collective growth, including David's work with The Mysteries and Earthsong, a retelling of the Persephone myth, and discuss the role of community, leadership, and stewardship in shaping the future of psychedelics.

David Adam Burns is a transformational coach, artist, and facilitator devoted to helping human beings remember who they are. Since 2015, he has guided leaders through deep personal transformation in his one-on-one practice and co-founded The Mysteries, an artists' collective dedicated to expressing the ineffable through myth and performance.

Highlights:

• Why insight is often overvalued
• Healing as integration, purification, and thawing
• Presence as the core psychedelic skill
• Story and myth as collective technologies
• The role of community in transformation
• Why leadership determines long-term outcomes

Episode Links:

• David Adam Burns Website
• The Mysteries / Earthsong
• David on LinkedIn

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Heather Smith, founder of The Moxie School and a certified Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapist, about the intersection of parts work and psychedelic healing.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-354/?ref=278

Heather explains how IFS offers a practical framework for working with what arises during psychedelic experiences. She describes IFS as an approach that helps people stay present with different parts of themselves, especially when difficult or unexpected material comes up.

The conversation explores how psychedelic experiences can bring awareness to underlying patterns and past experiences, and why that awareness on its own often doesn't lead to lasting change.

They also discuss common misconceptions about combining IFS with psychedelics, the role of preparation and integration, and how working directly with parts supports more stable change over time.

Highlights:

• Misconceptions about IFS in psychedelic work
• IFS as a mindset, not a method
• How psychedelics reveal internal parts
• Why insight alone isn't enough
• The unburdening process in healing
• Working with fear and difficult experiences
• Preparation and integration as core skills
• Practitioner integrity and embodied practice

Heather Smith is a visionary in the field of psychedelic healing, blending Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy with expanded states of consciousness to catalyze deep transformation. A Certified IFS therapist, she has completed Levels 1–3 of training and served as a Program Assistant multiple times.

She is the founder of The Moxie School®, where she trains psychedelic facilitators in IFS-informed approaches and supports both personal and professional development through immersive training and retreat experiences.

Episode Links:

• The Moxie School
• How to Journey: An IFS Field Guide to Psychedelic Journeys

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Kathryn L. Tucker, J.D., a leading civil rights attorney and advocate for end-of-life autonomy, about the legal effort to expand access to psilocybin-assisted therapy for patients facing serious illness.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-353/?ref=278

Kathryn shares how decades of work in right-to-die litigation led her to recognize a critical gap in palliative care, addressing psychological and existential suffering at the end of life. Drawing from emerging clinical research, she explains why psilocybin may offer meaningful relief for anxiety, depression, and distress in terminal patients.

The conversation explores the legal pathways being pursued to make this treatment accessible, including Right to Try laws, federal litigation with the DEA, and efforts to reschedule psilocybin. Kathryn also reflects on the broader cultural and ethical implications of allowing individuals greater choice in how they approach death.

Kathryn L. Tucker, JD, is a nationally recognized leader in advancing improved care for seriously ill and dying patients. She has held leadership roles across multiple nonprofit organizations, including the National Psychedelics Association, the End of Life Liberty Project, and Compassion & Choices. Tucker has litigated landmark cases before the U.S. Supreme Court, including Washington v. Glucksberg and Vacco v. Quill, and has played a key role in both end-of-life litigation and psychedelic policy advocacy.

Highlights:

• Right to Try laws explained
• Psilocybin as investigational medicine
• DEA barriers to patient access
• Litigation strategies for psychedelic access
• Rescheduling psilocybin efforts
• Palliative care gaps in mental suffering
• Legal vs underground psychedelic

Episode Links:

• National Psychedelics Association
• Kathryn's LinkedIn

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

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