Today's guest is the Grammy Producer of the Year who built the two biggest pop breakthroughs of the last five years back to back — and whose real story isn't about the hits. It's about the three years he spent making nothing and the rule he wants every producer in the game to understand.

From indie rock frontman in As Tall As Lions to pop's most trusted collaborator, Dan built his career against almost every industry instinct. He carries three things at once that most producers never figure out how to hold: the commercial ear of someone who's had back-to-back Grammy runs with Olivia Rodrigo, the patience of a craftsman who sat on "Good Luck, Babe" for 18 months before it ever left his hard drive, and the conviction to say no — to every rushed demo, every session hop, every label note that doesn't serve the artist.

This is one of the more honest conversations about what it actually takes to build a superstar.

And The Writer Is... Dan Nigro!

In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:

• The three years he spent making nothing — and what finally broke it

• Why getting Chappell dropped from Atlantic was "the greatest thing that ever happened"

• "We're building like an icon here" — the real work behind Chappell Roan's rise

• Why Dan refuses to send demos

• 20 days with one artist, not 20 sessions with twenty

• Meeting Dua Lipa in 2014 — "this girl is a superstar"

• Artist development, finding your lane

• Writing good songs sucks — and why that's fine

And much more...

Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.

Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us.

And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.

Chapter timestamps:

0:00 Intro

3:01 Why Atlantic dropping Chappell was "the greatest thing that ever happened"

4:16 Atlantic's note: cut one of the Pink Pony Club guitar solos

8:20 Self-releasing Karma, Naked in Manhattan, and building a label with Island

11:33 "We're building like an icon here" — Bowie, Madonna, the Chappell blueprint

13:13 What makes somebody "have it" — the gut call you can't fake

17:21 "There are no more superstars" — the article that pissed Dan off

19:34 20 days with one artist, not 20 sessions with twenty

21:27 Good Luck Babe's million rewrites — the "Good Luck Jane" era

22:59 Why Dan refuses to send demos — ever

24:54 18 months on the hard drive

26:01 Justin Tranter asks: how do you have the confidence to dive that deep?

28:04 Three years. Ended up with nothing.

33:12 The Madonna model — outside songs, finding your lane

43:21 Taking five months off after Olivia and Chappell

46:41 Steph Jones asks: rituals, guilty pleasures, happy accidents

51:43 Amy Allen asks: has your feeling ever been wrong?

52:58 "The most egotistical thing I've ever said" — never wrong about an artist

53:20 Meeting Dua Lipa in 2014 — "this girl is a superstar"

55:55 Vampire — and the label that thought it was "three songs in one"

62:39 People need to take more risks

63:37 Writing good songs sucks — and why that's fine

68:21 Five for five — As Tall As Lions, Sour, Guts, Amusement Records

70:31 The second-album mountain

72:58 Playing Olivia and Chappell for his daughter

Credits:

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Post-Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Every week, And the Writer Is brings you the most important news moving through the music industry — straight, sharp, and no fluff. This week: a jury ruled Live Nation and Ticketmaster violated antitrust laws and operate as illegal monopolies, with a judge now weighing whether to force a breakup or sale. Max Lousada and Julie Greenwald — the A&R legends behind Warner's modern run — launched a new long-term international label with Sony Music investment and distribution. And Udio signed a licensing deal with Kobalt, becoming one of the first AI companies actually paying creatives for training on their work. Plus: D4vd arrested on murder charges and dropped by Interscope, Foster the People ink a new deal, and Ella Langley's "Choosin' Texas" holds the #1 song. Follow us on socials and don't miss our new episodes every Tuesday — the hottest conversations in music, with the people making it.

This week:

• Jury finds Live Nation and Ticketmaster violated antitrust laws — a judge will now decide whether to break them up
• Max Lousada and Julie Greenwald launch a new international label with Sony Music
• Udio signs a licensing deal with Kobalt — the first real AI-pays-creatives move of the cycle
• D4vd arrested on murder charges; Interscope removes him from their roster
• Foster the People sign a new deal
• Ella Langley's "Choosin' Texas" remains #1 song of the week
• Ross previews live episodes coming from Stagecoach and the week's Billy Corgan drop

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is the architect of alternative rock who sold 30 million albums and defined the sound of an entire generation — but whose real story begins after the hits stopped mattering to him.

From the suburbs of Chicago to the apex of 90s mainstream success, Billy Corgan built an empire. Then he spent the last 20 years quietly dismantling the idea that commercial success is the same thing as real value. He carries three things simultaneously that most artists never figure out how to hold at once: the ambition of someone who was never going to settle for the midwest, the technical genius of a classically-trained musician who produces every layer of his own work, and the philosophical rigor of someone willing to completely reimagine what success actually means.

This is one of the more unflinching conversations about what staying relevant actually costs — not the version that gets posted on socials, the version that gets lived in the real decisions you make about art, money, independence, and how you want to spend your time. When the gatekeepers are gone and nobody's controlling the narrative anymore, who do you become?

And The Writer Is... Billy Corgan!

In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:

• The trap of being defined by your greatest hits — and why he refuses it

• His father's failed music career, and the moment his dad finally understood

• Chicago's inward-facing indie scene and the cost of communities that don't believe in themselves

• How the value of artists gets assessed in rooms — and why that's broken

• What "influence" actually means vs. commercial success

• The gatekeepers are gone — what that really means for independent artists

• Owning 100% of your publishing and why that changes everything

• Building a new world where direct artist support is how things actually work

• Why legacy thinking is changing, and what comes next

And much more...

Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible.

Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us.

And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.

Chapter timestamps:

0:00 Intro

2:30 Why Billy doesn't prefer to talk about his hits, and how his legacy has adjusted

5:00 Dad's bitterness: you got lucky

6:30 Dad's realization "You're one of the best songwriters in the world"

8:00 Independent music, 'selling out', and Chicago's music scene

10:30 The touring economics of the 90's

13:15 Rigged charts and the beginning of Pop music

16:00 Representation of Rock music in the charts / award shows

19:30 Ross on the future of music in a digital world

20:30 Numbers mean nothing if no one gives a sh*t.

21:00 Pop vs Rock: The future of music

28:30 Women archetypes in music

38:21 Billy's advice: What you need to survive in the music industry

40:00 World building and songwriting advice

43:31 How to define your value as an artist in a commercial world

44:40 Billy's Batman story

49:00 Breaking 'Landmine' because of Courtney Love

51:50 How he meets Courtney Love

54:08 How he learned to play guitar

57:00 His guitar hero inspiration…

1:01:10 Meeting the band

1:03:20 Finding a world class drummer hiding in plain sight

1:07:05 Fighting for his band when no one believed in them

1:15:29 Keeping your mouth shut when it's not your session

1:16:02 Fight for your copyright. The band struggling with his sole writing credit

1:18:00 AI in music… and Billy's take on it

Credits:

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Post-Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Every week, And the Writer Is brings you the most important news moving through the music industry — straight, sharp, and no fluff. This week: Maryland just passed the RAP Act, making it illegal to use rap lyrics as courtroom evidence, potentially setting the stage for federal law. Suno's licensing negotiations with Sony and Universal have stalled, leaving major AI royalty questions unresolved. And Pershing Square submitted a $64 billion bid for Universal Music Group, revealing just how undervalued the music industry is to outside investors. Plus: Ticketmaster's face value integration, HYBE's new Indian girl group audition, and moves at Warner. Follow us on socials and don't miss our new episodes every Tuesday — the hottest conversations in music, with the people making it.

This week:

• Maryland passes the RAP Act — rap lyrics can no longer be used as courtroom evidence
• Pershing Square submits a $64B bid for Universal Music Group
• Suno's licensing talks with Sony and Universal stall over AI royalties
• Ticketmaster partners with Cash or Trade on face value resale integration
• HYBE auditions for a new Indian girl group as Asian streaming dominance grows
• Myles Gersh promoted at Warner — the exec who signed Zach Bryan
• Taylor Swift resigns with Warner Chappell
• Lasso signs to Interscope Records

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is the Irish troubadour who sold out arenas across the world and built one of the most durable careers in modern music, entirely on his own terms.

From Dublin street corners and busking for strangers to headlining Madison Square Garden, this conversation is about what that actually costs to build the slow, deliberate construction of a career that answers to no one, yet resonates with millions around the world.

He carries three things simultaneously that most artists never figure out how to hold at once: the ambition of someone who was never going to settle for Ireland only, the sensitivity of a songwriter who writes for his whole community, and the creative instincts of a kid who grew up on hip hop and folk and refused to let either one fully win.

This is one of the more honest conversations about what a creative life actually looks like from the inside — not the version that gets posted, the version that gets lived.

And The Writer Is... Dermot Kennedy!

In this episode of And The Writer Is...

We go deep on:

• His whole journey

• The moment he realized the audience could feel how hard he was trying — and why that was the problem • How to carry ambition, sensitivity, and creative instinct in the same body without one of them destroying the other

• Building an international career without a viral hit — and what that reveals about how the industry actually works

• The busking years, and the secrets for how he survived

• Why he deliberately toured smaller venues on his last run — and what that decision says about success

• Imposter syndrome, insecurity, and the reality of growing a career from 0-100.

And much more...

Hit subscribe and turn on notifications.

Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our sponsors...

Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us.

And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.

Chapter timestamps:

0:00 Intro

3:30 The 3 Sides Every Creative Has to Balance

4:30 You Shouldn't Rinse Your Shows. It's a Sacred Thing.

5:00 What Dermot Beats Himself Up About On Stage

5:30 Anxiety After the Show Starts, Not Before

6:00 The Struggle of Being Lucky Enough to Have a Career

8:00 Childhood

9:00 "I Know I'm Good. But I Feel Very Insecure in Other Ways."

14:00 How Dermot Built a Career With No Algorithm and No Social Pressure

18:00 Why He Doesn't Play Music for People

19:19 How He Started Busking

20:15 Why Most People Couldn't Busk — and the Genius Who Changed Everything

21:00 The Importance of Branding When Selling Anything

22:00 How to Make Real Money Busking

26:00 How Dermot Built His Name and Started Playing Shows

29:00 Into the Music Business — and the Most Successful He's Ever Felt

31:00 Being Sought After and Avoiding Bad Record Deals

32:40 How to Build Out Your Team

36:00 A Note About Touring: Enjoy Where You're At

38:23 His Advice to His 15-Year-Old Self: Find Your Contentment

39:23 How Dermot Kennedy Built a Worldwide Fanbase

Credits:

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Post-Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Watercolor Art by Michael White

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today’s guest is one of the most quietly enduring artists in modern pop — a songwriter and performer who’s spent over a decade growing up in public, learning how to separate perception from identity.

She was discovered online as a teenager and quickly thrust into an industry that had already decided who she was.

But behind the headlines, she was doing the real work — writing, refining her sound, and slowly building a career on her own terms.

This is a conversation about perception vs reality, creative control, and what it actually takes to become yourself in an industry that benefits from misunderstanding you.

And The Writer Is… Madison Beer!

What you'll learn:

• What it actually feels like to grow up in the public eye

• The gap between how artists are perceived vs who they really are

• Why longevity in music requires emotional resilience

• How Madison developed her sound and creative identity over time

• The pressure of early success — and rebuilding from it

• Why being misunderstood can either break you or sharpen you

This episode is brought to you by the NMPA — supporting songwriters and protecting the value of music.

And by Splice — the world’s largest library of sounds and samples, built for creators.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro

1:42 Madison’s favorite songs of hers

3:00 Lyrics or melody first?

4:30 Ross meeting Madison at 13

6:00 Madison’s childhood, early memories

7:00 Going through parent’s divorce in early childhood

9:45 Why singing the national anthem is hard

10:00 Her family’s early encouragement

11:00 Madison’s first song

13:00 Starting her career at 10

18:40 Getting discovered overnight from a Justin Bieber tweet.

19:11 Contracts in music industry

19:58 Meeting Justin Bieber

21:46 Why getting dropped is a blessing

24:00 Struggling with early music identity

26:00 Why she felt she couldn’t fight back on creative control early on

28:00 finding her power through social media

31:55 Reclaiming creative control

33:50 writing reckless

35:28 Home with you

36:25 the importance of your collaborators 

39:12 the original demo to Reckless

41:13 being easier to write dark songs than happy songs

41:40 the challenge of writing her new album

41:54 NMPA

42:36 Splice

43:26 Going back into the label system

45:00 her first tour in lockdown

46:50 Madison’s touring non negotiables

52:00 the story of Home to another one

53:41 Writing darker songs while in a happy relationship

55:55 Setting boundaries for mental health

56:55 “Showed Me” as an interpolation

58:37 Her mental health struggles and path to healing

1:01:54 How her album locket Freed her

1:03:25 the unlikely story of bittersweet

1:05:30 what writing a song with strangers is like

1:09:00 loneliness and missing out on a normal childhood

1:12:00 Dealing with constant criticism and how she manages it

1:12:47 Surviving the lowest point of her life

1:16:30 how she currently manages her mental health

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Post Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today’s world builder builds worlds worldwide to make her own universe! Dark and whimsical meets bubblegum grunge when this artist broke out on the scene to create her own cult following. 

When doors didn’t open, she built her own. 

And The Writer Is……Melanie Martinez!

In this episode, Melanie opens up about:

• Materializing ideas and her entire creative process

• Why she never approached music as a game

• The reality behind shows like The Voice

• How she built her identity before the industry caught up

• Her philosophy on songwriting and the importance of your truth

• Protecting your creative voice in a commercial system

• Why being yourself is still the most important advantage

• And much more…

Hit the subscribe button and turn on notifications.

Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our sponsors…

Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us.

And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro

2:00 The Real Meaning Behind “Disney Princess”

4:30 Introversion vs Performance

6:00 The Magic of Creating and Materializing Ideas

7:45 Her Creative Process — Titles, Concepts, and Staying Inspired

12:00 The Songs That Defined Her Early Career

12:48 Growing Up Writing — Her First Songs and Backstory

16:45 World-Building and Creating a True Artistic Identity

18:30 Rejection, Independence, and Dollhouse

20:00 “Blind Dating” in the Music Industry

24:00 Stage Fright and Early Creative Influences

26:00 What She’d Tell Her Younger Self

26:45 Advice for Artists Trying to Break Through

27:30 Hitchhiking to The Voice — And What It Really Was

30:00 The Reality of Music Competition Shows

31:42 NMPA — Our Lead Sponsor This Season

32:23 Splice

33:00 Ross on Music Competition TV

34:00 Performing Live and Managing Nerves

36:00 Finding Herself Through Dollhouse

37:20 The Story Behind Dollhouse

38:00 Fighting for Her Creative Vision

40:00 Where Her Ideas Come From

42:00 How She Builds Albums and Story Arcs

44:20 Writing Honestly Without Overthinking It

45:00 What Songwriters Get Wrong About Meaning

49:30 Are You Happy?

51:30 The Priorities That Changed Everything

54:00 Final Advice

55:00 Portals

57:47 Hades — A Dystopian World

1:00:20 The Utopian Album to Come

1:00:51 Her Favorite Songs on the Album

1:01:50 The Story of “Weight Watchers”

1:06:00 An Emotional Reflection — Her Message to Others

1:07:30 Her Inspirations

1:09:00 Social Media, AI, and Staying Human

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Post-Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Watercolor Art by Michael White

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today’s guest is one of the defining voices in modern pop — a songwriter, producer, and artist behind some of the biggest records of the last decade.

His songs have been streamed billions of times worldwide.

He came to Los Angeles to write for others.

Instead, he became a globally identifiable artist — before fully becoming himself.

Now, he’s building something that’s truly his.

And The Writer Is… Charlie Puth!

In this episode, Charlie opens up about:

• His early journey

• The moment “See You Again” came together, and why it still feels unexplainable

• How early success shaped his career before his identity caught up

• Why the best songs often come from discomfort, not control

• The role of collaboration in pushing him beyond his instincts

• Sessions with legendary artists — and what those moments actually feel like

• The importance of staying human in an increasingly synthetic world

• And much more…

Hit the subscribe button and follow us on socials @andthewriteris

Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

A special thank you to our sponsors…

Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us.

And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro

2:46 Charlie Demos the Theme Song

5:00 The “Mouth Phone” Trick

7:00 His Secret Involvement in Dangerous Woman

9:00 “Stay” — The Power of Collaboration (Justin Bieber, Kid Laroi)

13:00 “Are You Where You Want to Be?”

16:00 Where His Best Work Comes From

16:53 The Story of See You Again

20:43 Wiz Khalifa’s Defining 'See You Again' Moment

23:02 When the Industry Didn’t Know What to Do With Him

27:22 The Song No One Believed In (We Don’t Talk Anymore)

29:52 Ross’s Philosophy on Sending Music

31:04 The Song That Changed Everything

34:09 Authenticity, Vulnerability, and Letting People In

39:00 Why It’s More Important to Be Human Than Ever

45:05 NMPA — Our Lead Sponsor This Season

45:56 Splice

46:38 Conflict, Collaboration, and Making the New Album

51:11 Coffee With Kenny G and Michael McDonald

55:39 Chris Stapleton's Songwriting Advice

1:02:05 The Artists and Producers He Studies

1:08:00 His Lowest Point

1:31:51 Charlie Shares Drum Samples

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Post-Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Watercolor Art by Michael White

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today’s guest is one of the fastest-rising voices in modern country — a songwriter whose honesty, wit, and emotional precision have turned deeply personal stories into songs heard everywhere. She just became the 10th woman of the century to top the Billboard 200.

Before the sold-out shows and chart-topping records, she was a college student playing small gigs with her dad and brother, trying to figure out where music might fit into her life.

One honest song at a time, she began building a catalog that feels both timeless and unmistakably her own.

Now, with a growing fanbase and a string of hits helping shape the sound of modern country, she’s writing the next chapter of her career in real time.

And The Writer Is… Megan Moroney!

In this episode of And The Writer Is… Megan opens up about:

• The unexpected moment that pushed her toward learning guitar

• Growing up around music and playing early shows with her family

• The traumatic accident that jumpstarted her music career

• Finding her voice in the Nashville songwriting community

• Why honesty and humor are essential to her writing

• How she stood out in early co-writes

• And much more…

Hit subscribe and turn on notifications.Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our sponsors…

Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us.And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.

Chapters

0:00 Intro

5:00 Moving to Nashville: The First Steps

6:00 Working in the Music Industry Before Releasing Music

7:00 The Advice That Started Her Career

10:00 Growing Up Around Music in Georgia

13:50 “I Went to School to Be an Accountant”

16:30 Musical Theatre and Feeling Out of Place

18:56 The Accident That Started Everything

24:01 The Sorority Event That Led to Georgia Theatre

32:25 Learning the Business of Music in School

33:00 The Internship That Changed Everything

35:00 Creating the Tennessee Orange Cover Art on Her Phone

38:45 Writing Every Day and Building a Network in Nashville

40:20 NMPA — Our Lead Sponsor This Season

41:00 Splice

41:45 The Story of Tennessee Orange

45:50 How Influencing Helped Pay the Bills

47:10 Megan’s Writing Process

52:15 Exploring the Studio

54:10 Working With Ed Sheeran

58:42 A Full-Circle Moment With Kacey Musgraves

1:09:00 The Story of “Beautiful Things”

1:15:55 Rapid Fire

1:21:26 Megan Gives the Podcast Flowers

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Post-Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Watercolor Art by Michael White

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today’s guest is the frontman of one of the most defining bands of the 2010s — a songwriter whose voice helped shape an era of alternative pop that still echoes today.

Before arenas. Before permanence. Before “Sweater Weather” became cultural shorthand.

Now, after over a decade of hits, reinvention, and evolution, he looks back on the long arc of The Neighbourhood with clarity — and with honesty about what success did and didn’t solve.

And The Writer Is… Jesse Rutherford of The Neighbourhood!

In this episode of And The Writer Is…, Jesse opens up about:

• Growing up in the industry before he understood it

• The unlikely formation and endurance of The Neighbourhood

• His journey through childhood acting, getting discovered, + losing his dad on the brink of success

• The advice he’d give himself before it worked

• And much more…

Hit subscribe and turn on notifications.

Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our sponsors…

Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us.

And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro

2:09 I Never Wanted To Be Alternative


4:02 Why Thousand Oaks Produces Massive Bands

7:39 Becoming a Child Actor at 6


8:35 “My Self-Worth Is Tied to Entertaining”


9:55 Discovered in a Movie Theater at 5


14:16 Reconnecting With His Dad Before He Passed


17:28 Success Without the Fame He Expected

27:10 High School Metalcore Bands

33:17 How The Neighbourhood Formed


36:06 The First Riff of “Sweater Weather”


40:00 Getting Discovered Online by Their Manager


44:23 His Manager’s Warning…

47:20 Writing the Lyrics to “Sweater Weather”


48:42 Pop Writing Rules


55:23 Learning to Let Go of Instant Validation


59:32 Daddy Issues


1:02:30Watching Your Own Lyrics Affect Relationships


1:10:01 Why He Needs Alone Time

1:10:23 Feeling Invisible, the “Chip Chrome” Era


1:11:17 Touring the Same Venues & The Plateau Feeling


1:12:31 Why Chip Chrome Became His Favorite Creative Risk


1:13:48 “You’ve Got to Get People to Look to Listen”

1:16:00 Creative Direction as Identity Control


1:19:30 Self-Sabotage vs Reinvention


1:32:00 Band Brotherhood & Growing Up Together


1:36:00 Legacy, Impact & What Really Matters

1:41:00 Advice to His Younger Self

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Post-Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Watercolor Art by Michael White

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today’s guest is a Grammy-winning songwriter, global pop architect, and one of the most quietly influential voices shaping modern music across borders.

Before the world heard her voice, she spent years training inside the K-pop system — learning discipline, structure, and endurance long before recognition ever arrived. When the system didn’t know what to do with her, she pivoted. Slowly. Intentionally. And built a career that would eventually be heard everywhere.

Now, as a songwriter whose work spans K-pop, pop, animation, and beyond — and as an artist stepping into her own voice — she represents a different kind of success: one built patiently, shaped by pressure, and defined by longevity rather than speed.

And The Writer Is… Ejae!

In this episode of And The Writer Is…, Ejae opens up about:

• The reality of the K-pop training system and what it actually teaches you about discipline and survival
• Rejection and why her voice didn’t fit the moment — and how that shaped her writing
• Learning to work alone after years inside a rigid system
• How songwriting became a safer, more powerful entry point than performing
• The pivot that reframed her career and led to global success

And much more…

Hit the subscribe button and turn on notifications.

Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our sponsors…

Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishing Association. Your support means the world to us.

And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro

1:30 Early life & finding music

6:10 Inside K-Pop training

9:00 Ejae's writing process...

28:00 Rejection from auditioning to be a K-Pop Idol... and $5 Karaoke training to pass.

41:00 Ejae sings her first song

41:37 Sponsor Spotlight: NMPA

42:18 Sponsor Spotlight: Splice

14:45 Discipline, pressure, and identity

23:20 Being let go by the system

26:19 The truth about the K-Pop system

30:40 Rebuilding in isolation

39:15 Discovering songwriting as power

50:00 K-Pop's ultimate evaluation: Auditioning to debut

50:37 Ejae's rejection and rock bottom... and the pivot that would change everything

56:10 Global songs & delayed recognition

1:00:00 How she wrote her first songs

1:04:00 Writing her first song for film

1:07:00 Writing 'Psycho' for Red Velvet at her first session

1:13:00 K-Pop vs Pop music... And the reference to 'Psycho'

1:14:00 K-Pop Demon Hunters

1:20:00 The story behind 'Golden'

1:26:00 The original 'Golden' voice memo...

1:30:00 The process of co-writing the songs for K-Pop Demon Hunters

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Creative Directed by Jad Saad

Post-Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Watercolor Art by Michael White

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.