• 1 hour 8 minutes
    Drew Hyun and Jerry Sittser from the Lead Pastor Fellowship on the Dissonance Between Your Private and Public Life and Ministering to Those in Grief


    Episode Notes

    Today’s episode is part three of our summer series exploring our pastoral formation cohorts here at The Pastorate. This episode features Drew Hyun and Dr. Jerry Sittser, profiling their time spent with last year’s cohort of The Lead Pastor Fellowship. 

    Drew Hyun is the Lead Pastor of Hope Church NYC and Executive Director of Emotionally Healthy Discipleship. Drew shares the unpolished version of his own story: growing up a pastor's kid in a Korean immigrant church that split twice before he hit middle school, watching his father go from a harsh, at times violent man at home to a celebrated Christian author and speaker in Korea, and the gap that opened up between his own public ministry persona and a private life marked by hidden addiction and unprocessed rage. He traces how a chance internship exposed him to Pete Scazzero's "iceberg" picture of discipleship, the ten percent above the surface and ninety percent buried beneath it, and how that encounter became the seed of emotionally healthy discipleship in his own life. Drew confesses that it's entirely possible to do ministry for God without God, and that the deepest work of leadership is letting Jesus into the deepest and darkest parts of our hearts. 

    Following Drew, Dr. Jerry Sittser, Professor Emeritus of Theology and Senior Fellow at Whitworth University, teaches on pastoral care through irreversible loss, the kind that permanently changes the landscape of a life. Drawing on his own experience, losing his wife, mother, and daughter in a single car accident, Dr. Sittser rejects the idea of "stages of grief" and other neat recovery paradigms in favor of learning to carry loss for good, being transformed rather than finding resolution. He offers pastors concrete counsel: resist rushing to answers, know which biblical text fits which moment, help people ritualize mourning instead of just enduring it, and help them build a community of people who can shoulder their burdens.

    In this episode you'll hear:

    • Drew's story of growing up a pastor's kid inside two church splits, including a church fistfight that the LAPD had to break up,
    • An exploration of the phrase: "Jesus may live in your heart, but Grandpa lives in your bones,"
    • Why it's entirely possible to do ministry for God without God, even while seeing real spiritual fruit,
    • Pete Scazzero's iceberg image and how it became the seed of a discipleship model that goes beneath the surface,
    • Dr. Sittser's own story of catastrophic loss, and why he rejects "stages of grief" in favor of integration and transformation,
    • How to discern when to speak and when to sit in silence with someone carrying irreversible loss,
    • Practical postures for walking with people through suffering. 


    Partners

    27 July 2026, 7:01 am
  • 54 minutes 47 seconds
    Laura Liira on God-Given Dreams and the Time They Take to Mature, Developing Women in Pastoral Ministry, and a Year in the Emerging Leaders Lab

    Show Notes


    Episode Notes

    On today's episode Jordan sits down with Laura Liira, campus pastor of Coastline Church West Shore on Vancouver Island and participant in the 2025-2026 class of The Emerging Leaders Lab. Laura was born in Victoria into a nominal Catholic home, and was reintroduced to Christianity though her teenage years. During a gap year in London England, she encountered Jesus in a new way and committed to serve him for the rest of her life. Laura’s story is one marked by saying yes to whatever service opportunity was in front of her. She talks honestly about God-given dreams and the time they take to mature, and the journey from church intern to Campus Pastor.

    In the back half of the conversation Laura and Jordan turn to her year in the Emerging Leaders Lab, where she was the only woman in a cohort of male pastors with Keith Taylor as her guide. Laura reflects on how that band of brothers received her, prayed over her, and still meets together in a monthly rhythm. She reflects on women in ministry across the Canadian church landscape, the grit of pastoring a mobile church that sets up and tears down a middle school gym every Sunday, and she shares about what is filling her with hope right now.

    In this episode you'll hear:

    • How a gap year in London, meant for partying, became the year Laura met Jesus,
    • How saying yes to the next thing in front of you is a simple act of obedience that can open doors to opportunity,
    • The dreams she buried with her husband and how God dug them up in his own timing,
    • Being the only woman in a cohort of male pastors, and the "red rose" word that welcomed her in,
    • The unique challenges of a mobile church,
    • Why the fire she sees in young people across Canada has her so full of hope.

    Laura's story is a reminder that the most formative work in ministry rarely happens on a stage, but that it often happens in obedient acts of showing up and saying yes to what's in front of you. We trust this conversation will encourage you right where you are.


    Partners

    13 July 2026, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 5 minutes
    Glenn Packiam, Carey Nieuwhof, Helen Burns and More from the Emerging Leaders Lab on Friendship, Calling, and Finishing Well

    Show Notes

    Episode Notes

    This summer, we're taking you inside the two pastoral formation cohorts at the heart of The Pastorate: the Emerging Leaders Lab and the Lead Pastor Fellowship. Over four episodes, we're sharing the best teaching from this past year’s Lab and Fellowship and sitting down with participants from both programs to hear what an intentional season of formation actually does in the life of a pastor. This is the first episode of our four part series, replaying some of the best moments from last year’s Emerging Leaders Lab.

    The Emerging Leaders Lab just wrapped up its third year and kicked off its fourth year. In the 2025-2026 cohort, 24 pastors gathered monthly on Zoom to sit under the teaching of a remarkable lineup of guest teachers, and to do the thing you rarely get to do with someone you've only read or listened to: ask their questions, out loud and in real time. Each guest came to teach around one of the eight formation areas that shape the Lab, covering everything from calling and community to character and craft. In this episode, our team pulled together the moments the cohort named as most impactful.

    In this episode you’ll hear from:

    • Glenn Packiam on why pastors need a constellation of relationships and the diverse voices every pastor needs around them: rulers, peers, sages, healers, and friends.
    • Carey Nieuwhof on burning out in the middle of a decade of explosive growth, finding your line, and how this generation of pastors can finish differently.
    • Helen Burns on why balance is a misaligned goal, what to anchor to instead, and the confession she keeps hearing from pastors: my soul is so tired.
    • Jason Ballard on the difference between the friends you play with and the deep friends who know your shadow side, say the hard thing, and have to be pursued on purpose.
    • Lance Odegard on why you can't know your calling until you know your design, blind spots and the true self, and the game-changing leadership question: how do you experience me?
    • Mark Buchanan on the difference between who you're called to be and what you're called to do, and why the calling on your life can't be revoked.

    With thanks to the many other voices who contributed to the Lab this past year, including Darrell Johnson, Chris Price, Mark Peters, Milissa Ewing, and Preston Pouteaux.

    Partners

    29 June 2026, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 2 minutes
    Mark Clark on Preaching to the Skeptic and the Saint, Planting Village Church, and Leading Through Burnout

    Show Notes

    Episode Description

    In today's conversation, Jason sits down with Mark Clark, the pastor who planted Village Church in British Columbia, and now the Global Senior Pastor at Bayside Church in California. Mark’s story includes an atheist upbringing in Ontario, a late-teen conversion, a dream of becoming an academic at Oxford, and a call to plant a church in one of the most secular corners of North America. What began with sixteen people in his living room grew into one of the fastest-growing churches in Canada, and Mark reflects with both gratitude and candor on the road that took him there.

    Jason and Mark talk about the patience that shaped their early ministry years, waiting for the right time, the right people, and the right season to plant churches. Mark opens up his convictions around preaching, describing how he learned to speak to the skeptic and the lifelong believer in the same room, and why he refuses to choose between reaching the lost and discipling the found. He's also honest about the cost of leading through rapid growth, including the burnout seasons that left him preaching dizzy and gripping the pulpit to stay upright.

    The conversation also turns to what it meant to leave the church he founded and entrust it to leaders he loves, and the insecurity that keeps many leaders from transitioning. Drawing on Zechariah 10, he candidly describes his calling as making warhorses out of sheep, a vision he holds with both conviction and a winsome humility

    In this episode you'll hear:

    • How an atheist kid from Ontario became a church planter in one of Canada's most secular cities,
    • Why patience, the right time, people, and season, mattered more than urgency in the plant,
    • How to preach to the skeptic and the lifelong believer in the same room,
    • What the burnout seasons cost Mark, and the team decision that reshaped his preaching,
    • Why he left the church he founded, and what it's been like to watch it flourish under new leadership,
    • How Zechariah 10 reframed his calling around raising and releasing the next generation of leaders.

    Partners


    15 June 2026, 7:01 am
  • 56 minutes 7 seconds
    Heath Hardesty on How Imagination Shapes the Way We See the World, the Disintegration of Our Present Age, and His Book All Things Together.

    Show Notes

    Episode Description

    On today's episode we welcome Heath Hardesty, Lead Pastor of Valley Community Church in Pleasanton, California, and author of All Things Together: How Apprenticeship to Jesus Is the Way of Flourishing in a Fragmented World. Heath's journey into pastoral ministry began as a plumber's apprentice and eventually grew into an apprenticeship of a different kind, one where he learned to follow the call of Jesus and eventually to shepherd a local church.

    This conversation traces Heath's story, from studying literature and theology, playing in bands, and apprenticing under his plumber father, before a moment of encounter through the Scripture stirred his heart toward a life in the pastorate. Jason and Heath explore Heath’s book All Things Together which offers a vision of Christian apprenticeship built on union, abiding, obeying, and imaging and they discuss why imagination shapes the way we inhabit the world, the role of story in a fragmented age, and what it means to re-inhabit reality in the way of Jesus.

    In this episode you'll hear:

    • Heath's journey from a plumber's truck and a music career to the pastorate, 
    • How a moment under a sink, holding an orange-painted wrench like his father, became his inspiration for All Things Together, 
    • Why apprenticeship to Jesus is the essence of being human, not an optional "side quest" for mature Christians,
    • What disintegration looks like in our culture and in our souls, and why our age acts as an amplifier of fragmentation,
    • The role of story and imagination in helping people re-inhabit reality in the way of Jesus,
    • Why "technique" and efficiency are at odds with being stewards of the mysteries of God,
    • How the greatest gift a pastor brings to a congregation may simply be the person they are becoming.

    For every pastor learning the slow craft of shepherding, this conversation offers a frame for the work, and a reminder that you, too, are an apprentice. May it encourage you wherever you're serving.

    1 June 2026, 7:00 am
  • 59 minutes 14 seconds
    Ben Johnson on Stewarding a 97-Year Old Church, Fathering Young Leaders, and Vision for the Church in Calgary

    Show Notes:

    Episode Notes:

    In today's episode, Ben Johnson joins Jason for a conversation on pastoral stewardship, generational legacy, and what it looks like to lead a nearly century-old church into its next chapter. Ben is the Lead Pastor of First Assembly Calgary, a Pentecostal church planted 97 years ago that has helped birth many other Pentecostal congregations across both Calgary and western Canada. Together they trace the story of First Assembly, the 35-year-old Tehillah Mondays gathering, and the heart that First Assembly has for worship, prayer, and the next generation. 

    Jason and Ben also explore the joy and weight of fathering young leaders, the family legacy that traces Ben's grandfather's salvation back to First Assembly's downtown building decades ago, and the formative season of revival at Christian Life Assembly in 1998. The conversation closes with Ben sharing First Assembly’s Vision 100, a stewardship-shaped initiative to double the impact of First Assembly in the next 100 years.

    Ben and Jason explore:

    • The history and identity of First Assembly Calgary as a "mothering” and “fathering" church that has planted or helped plant many other Pentecostal churches in the city,
    • The 35-year story of Tehillah Mondays and how a single worship gathering has continued to serve generation after generation in Calgary,
    • What Ben learned by sitting with the saints of the church to discern God's specific purpose for a local congregation, and the role an eldership's fasting and prayer played in his transition,
    • Why First Assembly is next-generation focused, and how that shapes worship, budgets, staffing, and Sunday gatherings without losing the honor due to senior saints,
    • The cradle-to-college discipleship pathway, the Tehillah Schools for teenagers and adults, and how this has become the "farm team" for nearly all of First Assembly's staff,
    • What young staff and leaders actually need from a lead pastor,
    • First Assembly’s Vision 100 and stewarding the church toward its 100-year anniversary with a strategy to reach, revitalize, and reproduce in Calgary.

    Partners

    18 May 2026, 7:00 am
  • 48 minutes 7 seconds
    Jeremy Norton on Life in Canada’s North, Pastoring Small Churches, and What the Church Offers the Digital World

    Show Notes

    Episode Description

    In today’s conversation, Jason sits down with Jeremy Norton, lead pastor of Mountainview Church in Whitehorse, Yukon. Jeremy’s story is one of patience and faithful presence in a part of Canada that many people have never seen firsthand. From southern Ontario to Alaska, Alberta, and eventually the Yukon, Jeremy reflects on the road that led him to serve Canada’s north and the deep sense of calling that kept drawing him there.

    Jason and Jeremy talk about the realities of pastoral ministry in Canada’s smaller and more remote contexts. Jeremy shares what it has meant to pastor in a place marked by cultural diversity, geographic isolation, and deep spiritual need, and how those realities have shaped his approach to leadership, preaching, and life in the church. He also reflects on the unique burdens many pastors carry in smaller churches and under-resourced communities, along with the creativity, resilience, and dependence on God those settings can draw out.

    The conversation also explores the ways Jeremy’s life in the North has shaped him personally. Through hunting, fishing, and subsistence living Jeremy is uniquely attuned to God’s provision through creation and he shares about what it means to receive life with dependence and gratitude. Jason and Jeremy reflect on how life close to the land can deepen faith, and why a more grounded, embodied way of living may have something important to offer in an age marked by distraction and disembodiment.

    In this episode you’ll hear:

    • Jeremy’s journey to Whitehorse and his call to pastoral ministry in the Yukon,
    • What ministry in a smaller, remote, and diverse context can teach us about pastoring,
    • Why Jeremy carries a burden for under-resourced pastors and smaller churches across Canada,
    • How hunting, fishing, and subsistence living have shaped his faith and spirituality,
    • What faithful leadership can look like outside the world of scale, platform, and visibility,
    • Why embodied Christian community may matter even more in an increasingly digital world.

    Partners

    Special thanks to the Canadian Bible Society for making this episode possible. We invite you to explore their ⁠Bible Course⁠ to help your church grow in Scripture engagement.

    We couldn’t do the work we do at The Pastorate without your generous support. We invite you to pray, share, and ⁠give⁠ towards seeding a hope-filled future for the Canadian church.


    4 May 2026, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 4 minutes
    Jay Kim on Ministry in the Age of AI, Pastoring in Silicon Valley, and Offering a Non-Anxious Presence in a Digital World

    Show Notes


    Episode Details

    In today’s episode, Jay Kim joins Jason for a conversation on pastoral ministry, spiritual formation, and what it means to follow Jesus faithfully in a world shaped by speed, distraction, and rapidly changing technology. Jay reflects on how digital culture is reshaping our imaginations, our communities, and even our understanding of what it means to be human.

    Jay also speaks candidly about the personal cost of pastoral leadership. He shares the pain and formation that came through difficult ministry seasons, the relational complexity of stepping into senior leadership, and the grief that often accompanies pastoral vocation. Together, Jason and Jay discuss how pastors can resist the extremes of fear and uncritical acceptance of technological change, and instead offer their communities a grounded, human, Christ-centered vision of life together.

    Jay and Jason explore:

    • Jay’s story of pastoral ministry, from teaching pastor to senior leadership, and the formative hardship of his years serving in Santa Cruz,
    • What it was like returning to WestGate as lead pastor, and the joy, grief, and relational complexity that can come with stepping into a new role,
    • Why pastors need honest friendships outside their immediate ministry context, especially when leadership feels isolating or painful,
    • How Silicon Valley has sharpened Jay’s thinking about discipleship, formation, and the deeper questions being raised by technology and AI,
    • Asking “what does it mean to be truly human, and how does Jesus show us the answer?” 
    • How pastors can respond to technological change without either fear or naïve optimism, and instead embody a slow, careful, non-anxious presence for their people,
    • The opportunity for the local church to become a deeply human, countercultural community in an increasingly artificial and polished world,
    • Why, in an age obsessed with scale, polish, and efficiency, one of the most powerful gifts pastors can offer is simple, flawed, embodied personhood.


    Partners

    20 April 2026, 5:01 am
  • 56 minutes 27 seconds
    N.T. Wright on Reading Scripture with Wonder, God’s Homecoming, and Champagne for Breakfast

    In this conversation, Jason Ballard sits down with N.T. Wright, New Testament scholar, Anglican minister, and longtime teacher, to talk about the grand story of Scripture, the vocation of the scholar-pastor, and the unique hope that sustains weary leaders.

    Tom reflects on his early sense of call, his lifelong commitment to holding together pastoral ministry and academic theology, and the deep joy of returning to Scripture over decades without losing wonder. He speaks candidly about the disorientation that can come through serious theological study, and offers wise, pastoral insight for those walking alongside students and pastors in seasons of theological questioning.

    Jason and Tom also explore the central burden behind Tom’s recent book God’s Homecoming. They discuss why the biblical story is not ultimately about leaving earth for heaven, but about God coming to dwell with His people and renew all things. From Romans 8 to the Psalms, from the Sermon on the Mount to the road to Emmaus, Tom helps reframe the Christian hope as resurrection, new creation, and the healing of the world under the reign of the risen Christ.

    Jason and Tom discuss:

    • Tom’s early sense of call and the path that led him into both parish ministry and academic theology,
    • Why the work of pastor and scholar belong together,
    • How deep study of Scripture can lead not to cynicism, but to renewed wonder,
    • How pastors can lovingly walk with people through seasons of theological disorientation,
    • Why learning to preach the whole story of Scripture matters so deeply,
    • The central vision behind God’s Homecoming and the Bible’s theme of God dwelling with His people,
    • The Psalms as a lifelong school of prayer,
    • Why Eastertide should be marked by joy, celebration, and embodied hope,
    • and a final word of encouragement for discouraged pastors.

    This is a rich conversation for pastors, preachers, seminary students, and anyone longing to love Scripture more deeply, live more faithfully in the story of God, and find inspiration in the midst of ministry’s daily rhythms. 

    Links & Resources

    Partners

    6 April 2026, 7:00 am
  • 56 minutes 16 seconds
    Cass Langton on Church Planting Post-Hillsong, Beauty as Witness, and Pastoring Creatives

    In this conversation, Jason Ballard sits down with Cass Langton, pastor, worship leader, and longtime creative leader, to talk about church planting, healing after ministry transition, and why creativity and beauty matter deeply in the life of the church.

    Cass reflects on the surprising journey that led her and her family from 26 years at Hillsong into planting The Local Church in Sydney. She shares honestly about the slow and painful work of healing after ministry transition, the importance of resisting reactionary leadership, and the grace of learning to recognize God’s presence in the quiet, ordinary moments of life.

    Jason and Cass also explore the unique calling of creatives in the church. Together, they discuss how pastors can better understand, value, and disciple creatives, why beauty is a primary matter in the Kingdom of God, and how the church can become a place where artists, musicians, writers, and makers are spiritually and creatively nurtured. 

    This is a rich conversation for pastors, church planters, worship leaders, and anyone longing to see the church become more beautiful, imaginative, and alive to the presence of God.

    Jason and Cass discuss:

    • Cass’s journey from Hillsong to planting The Local Church Sydney,
    • How healing, rest, and recalibration shaped the season before launching something new,
    • Learning to see the “miracles in the mundane” in pastoral ministry,
    • The role of beauty and creativity in the mission of God,
    • How churches can cultivate and pastor creatives well,
    • Why creatives need community, formation, and care, not just opportunities to serve,
    • Practical ways pastors can bless and release artists in their churches.

    Show Notes

    Partners

    We couldn’t do the work we do at The Pastorate without your generous support. We invite you to pray, share, and ⁠give⁠ towards seeding a hope-filled future for the Canadian church.


    Contact John Wright at Generis for help cultivating a culture of generosity in your church.

    23 March 2026, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 5 minutes
    Dr. Henry Cloud on the Pastor’s Inner Life, Leading Without Losing Your Soul, and Learning How to Discern

    Today on the podcast, Jason is joined by Dr. Henry Cloud. Henry is a clinical psychologist, leadership consultant, and bestselling author whose work has helped shape the leadership of countless pastors and ministry leaders over the past several decades. Many will know him through books like Boundaries, Integrity, and Necessary Endings, where he brings together insights from psychology, relationships, and leadership to help people grow in health and effectiveness.

    In this conversation, Henry reflects on his unlikely path from pursuing a career in golf to studying theology, psychology, and eventually working with leaders across both ministry and organizational contexts. Along the way, he developed a deep care and concern for pastors, those who carry enormous responsibility while often receiving very little care themselves.

    Together, Henry and Jason explore the pressures of pastoral leadership and the unique challenges faced by pastors. Henry shares insights from decades of working with leaders, offering a framework for leadership that moves beyond personality or charisma and toward a set of functions that can be learned and practiced over time.

    Together, Henry and Jason discuss:

    • Why pastors often find themselves pouring out for others with very few places to be cared for themselves,
    • Why leadership is not merely instinct or gifting, but a craft that must be learned and practiced,
    • The importance of humility and discernment in navigating complex leadership decisions,
    • Why pastors must pursue healing and self-awareness as part of their leadership formation,
    • And the crucial role of trusted relationships outside the ministry system for growth and accountability.

    Throughout the conversation, Henry speaks with deep respect for pastors. His encouragement is both honest and hopeful: sustainable leadership requires humility, intentional support, and a commitment to becoming whole as we lead others.

    Show Notes

    Partners

    Special thanks to the Canadian Bible Society for making this episode possible. We invite you to explore their ⁠Bible Course⁠ to help your church grow in Scripture engagement.

    The work of strengthening pastors across Canada is only possible because of generous partners like you. As we look to the future, would you consider joining us in prayer, sharing this episode, or ⁠making a gift to invest in a vibrant, Jesus-centered church in every community⁠?

    9 March 2026, 7:01 am
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