Learning and development facilitator Nikki Cross joined me on Ditching Hourly to share how she turned business books into a private podcast book club that helps members apply what they read.

Nikki explains the mechanics of her Inner Work Business Book Club, how she uses a private podcast to turn book ideas into implementation, and why structure matters when business books are trying to change behavior instead of merely transferring information.

Learn more about Nikki Cross and her work at The Inner Work.

• (00:00) - Introduction
• (00:22) - Nikki's Inner Work Business
• (01:38) - From Public Podcast to Private Book Club
• (06:32) - How the Book Club Episodes Work
• (13:51) - Reading Along, Listening Along, or Both
• (20:58) - From Edutainment to Implementation
• (24:03) - Fluff, Structure, and Business Books
• (31:42) - Choosing Books and Integration Months
• (36:50) - Books as Cheap Expertise, Audio as Proof
• (41:43) - How to Find Nikki

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Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Founder of Upshift, Shawn Yeager, joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about how AI is killing the billable hour and what professional services firms can do about it. 

Jonathan and Shawn dig into judgment versus execution, what firms should commercialize after AI, why cost-cutting is only the first move, and how agent workflows change what small and midsize firms can do.

• 00:00 - Introduction
• 01:54 - AI and the billable hour
• 03:56 - The judgment sandwich
• 05:19 - Strategy, execution, and hidden value
• 09:06 - Client conversations about AI pressure
• 13:26 - Validating AI output
• 15:29 - Judgment, marketing, and cost of being wrong
• 17:07 - AI transformation and commercialization
• 20:08 - The hard parts big firms still need humans for
• 22:20 - Cost recovery versus new offerings
• 25:35 - Agents as extra employees
• 26:40 - Interns versus chiefs of staff
• 28:44 - Scaffolding agent workflows
• 30:12 - From chatbots to delegated workflows
• 37:00 - AI adoption inside firms
• 42:01 - Closing remarks

Shawn Yeager runs Upshift, a firm focused on helping professional services firms understand what they sell after AI. His career has focused on emerging technology and getting it to market, including work on Microsoft's first browser team, the SaaS/cloud wave, mobile, Bitcoin, and AI. His background is in computer science, and his work has included sales, marketing, partnerships, consulting, Accenture, early-stage startups, and his own ventures. Learn more at upshiftco.com.

• (00:00) - Introduction
• (01:54) - AI and the billable hour
• (03:56) - The judgment sandwich
• (05:19) - Strategy, execution, and hidden value
• (09:06) - Client conversations about AI pressure
• (13:26) - Validating AI output
• (15:29) - Judgment, marketing, and cost of being wrong
• (17:07) - AI transformation and commercialization
• (20:08) - The hard parts big firms still need humans for
• (22:20) - Cost recovery versus new offerings
• (25:35) - Agents as extra employees
• (26:40) - Interns versus chiefs of staff
• (28:44) - Scaffolding agent workflows
• (30:12) - From chatbots to delegated workflows
• (37:00) - AI adoption inside firms
• (42:01) - Closing remarks

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Angular expert Alain Chautard rejoined me on Ditching Hourly to share how he scaled his certification business through partnerships and automation.

Jonathan and Alain talk about turning niche expertise into a certification business, reducing support demands, using expert partners across time zones and languages, negotiating a licensing-style partnership, and what happens when a soloist plugs their business into a larger organization.

• 00:00 - Introduction and Welcome Back
• 03:24 - Creating the Angular Certification Program
• 07:00 - Automating Customer Support
• 10:04 - Scaling with Global Partnerships
• 12:08 - Handling Certification Interviews
• 15:04 - Partnerships and Business Growth
• 20:05 - Negotiating a Business Partnership
• 24:38 - Email Marketing Journey
• 36:51 - Exploring New Content Formats
• 38:51 - Mastermind Groups for Soloists

Alain Chautard is a Google Developer Expert in Angular who does consulting, training, and conference/content work around the Angular framework. He created an Angular certification program after clients asked for proof of completion beyond a simple training certificate. His work now includes helping teams make architecture decisions, get up to speed with Angular, and scale the certification business through partnerships. Learn more at alainchautard.com.

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Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Data science consultant and podcast host Genevieve Hayes joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about podcasting as a boost for an expertise-based business.

Chapters

• 00:00 - Genevieve Hayes and Value-Driven Data Science
• 02:27 - Committing to Start a Podcast
• 05:35 - Simple Production Is Good Enough
• 07:02 - First Guests and Inbound Momentum
• 11:46 - The 100-Episode Surprises
• 15:07 - Relationships Beat Direct Lead Gen
• 18:12 - Pitching Guests and Building Luck Surface Area
• 29:30 - Buyers, Peers, and Referral Paths
• 34:58 - Almost Quitting, Seasons, and Persistence
• 39:00 - Preparation, Editing, and Production Workflow
• 42:18 - Editing as Learning and Content Fuel
• 49:20 - What You Actually Need to Start
• 58:20 - Guest Referrals, Swaps, and Live Formats
• 68:40 - Podcasting vs. Writing for Trust
• 78:30 - Landing Dream Guests and Wrap-Up

Guest Bio

Genevieve Hayes is an actuary and statistician-turned-data scientist who helps organizations improve decision-making by quantifying uncertainty, often when data is sparse. She became a soloist in early 2022 and provides data science consulting services. She also mentors data professionals who want to transform their technical skills into strategic expertise and move from tactical execution to strategic advisory roles. Genevieve hosts Value-Driven Data Science, a podcast for practicing data professionals making that technical-to-strategic shift. Learn more at Value-Driven Data Science. 

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

In this episode of Ditching Hourly, host Jonathan Stark welcomes Carl Franklin, co-host of the .NET Rocks podcast, to discuss the intricacies and benefits of value pricing. Listeners will gain insights into how value pricing can transform their business approach, moving away from the traditional hourly billing model.

The conversation covers key topics such as the differences between fixed pricing and hourly billing, the importance of the "why" conversation with clients, and strategies for handling project changes. Carl shares his experiences with proposal options, client negotiations, and overcoming resistance to value pricing.

• (00:00) Introduction
• (00:15) Carl Franklin's Background
• (02:09) Early Podcasting Days
• (04:39) The Starbucks Card Story
• (05:44) Introduction to Value Pricing
• (07:06) Fixed Pricing vs. Hourly
• (08:01) The Why Conversation
• (08:45) First Experiences with Value Pricing
• (20:39) Proposal Options and Client Choices
• (23:09) Handling Project Changes
• (25:02) Partnering and Value Pricing
• (27:00) Payment Terms and Client Negotiations
• (40:59) Expertise and Pricing Strategy
• (41:52) Overcoming Resistance to Value Pricing
• (44:02) Collaborative Projects and Revenue Sharing
• (45:44) Carl's Current Projects and Podcasts
• (48:54) Closing Remarks

Carl Franklin is a seasoned podcaster and developer, best known as the co-host of the .NET Rocks podcast, which has been a staple in the developer community since 2002. Learn more about Carl and his work at .NET Rocks.

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Pranav Kale returns for another reverse interview — this time grilling Jonathan about his personal productivity and time management system.

Jonathan walks through the system he's refined over two decades and used with his private coaching students: from consolidating all your to-dos in one place, to creating SOPs for recurring tasks, to the "event loop" that drives his day. The core idea: when you have the right things on your list and the right things in your calendar, you can just do whatever you feel like — and your business still moves forward.

Topics covered include why your calendar is not a to-do list, how procrastination is actually a useful signal, the "love-hate list" for designing your ideal workday, why batching doesn't work for everyone, and the Segovia principle — why one focused hour beats five mediocre ones.

This one's especially relevant for soloists who've tried rigid productivity systems and found they don't stick.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:00 The Three Buckets Every Soloist Needs
• 06:16 Get All Your To-Dos in One Place
• 09:14 SOPs and Checklists: Stop Winging It
• 18:23 The Feast-Famine Trigger
• 20:16 Why Your Calendar Is Not a To-Do List
• 25:40 The Event Loop
• 30:20 Procrastination Is a Signal
• 37:37 When You Hate Part of a Task, Cut It
• 42:06 The Love-Hate List
• 49:15 Batching vs. Gardening Your Business
• 56:22 How the System Came Together
• 59:00 The Segovia Principle
• 67:05 Adapting This to Your Personality
• 70:41 Pranav's Takeaways

Pranav Kale helps soloists find their one big idea through his Big Idea Sprint. Learn more at pranavkale.com.

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Best-selling author, speaker, and management adviser Joe Pine joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss his new book, The Transformation Economy, why it applies especially well to consultants, coaches, and advisors, and gives some tips on how to price transformations.

Joe's Bio

B. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management adviser to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial startups alike, and he is the cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He is the coauthor of the bestselling book The Experience Economy with James H. Gilmore, as well as Infinite Possibility with Kim C. Korn. His other books include Authenticity and Mass Customization. Pine consults with numerous companies around the world. He is a lecturer in the Strategic Technology Leadership program at Northeastern University's D'Amore-McKim School of Business and a senior fellow with the European Centre for the Experience Economy, which he cofounded.

Related Links

• Joe's website » strategichorizons.com
• Joe's previous appearance on Ditching Hourly » podcast.ditchinghourly.com/episodes/joe-pine-on-pricing-experiences
• Joe's previous appearance on TBOA » thebusinessofauthority.com/episodes/the-experience-economy-with-guest-joe-pine

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Jason Staats joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about his progression from being an employee in an accounting firm to running the top accounting community on the planet.

Links

• Jason's website
• Jason's YouTube

Chapters

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Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Rural planning advisor Ben Kettle joined me on Ditching Hourly to share his transition from hourly billing “nonsense” to risk-based project pricing.

Links

• Ben's website » https://areteruralplanning.co.uk/

Chapters

• (00:00) - Ben Kettle
• (00:20) - Meet the Guest: Ben Kettle
• (00:36) - Ben's Background and Career Journey
• (02:57) - Challenges with Hourly Billing
• (09:01) - Transition to Fixed Fee and Value-Based Pricing
• (13:23) - Implementing the New Pricing Model
• (25:48) - Client Reactions and Success Stories
• (34:08) - Conclusion and Future Plans

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Co-founder of Conversion Factory, Zach Stevens, rejoined me on Ditching Hourly to give us an update on how he's growing his subscription SaaS marketing agency in year 3.

Links We Mentioned

• Conversion Factory Website
• Zach's partner Corey, on X
• The Superstruct Manifesto by David Guttman
• The "If You're Such An Expert" Ditcherville Comic

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Welcome
• (00:10) - Zach's Business Journey
• (01:19) - Conversion Factory's Growth
• (02:26) - Subscription Model Insights
• (04:04) - Hiring and Team Expansion
• (08:32) - Training and Onboarding
• (20:48) - Client Management Strategies
• (30:00) - Client Frustrations and Communication Strategies
• (31:04) - The Inefficiency of Phone Calls
• (33:19) - Setting Client Expectations
• (37:05) - AI in Copywriting and Design
• (45:53) - Subscription Model Benefits
• (54:49) - Final Thoughts and Future Plans

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Charles Miller of Platoon joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss “good” taste, how you get it, why you might want it, and what to do when your clients don’t have it.

Links

• Charles’ personal site » https://www.charlesmiller.com/
• Charles’ portfolio site » https://www.platoon.studio/

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Welcome
• (00:11) - Defining Taste
• (00:19) - Charles Miller's Background
• (00:59) - The Concept of Informed Opinion
• (02:20) - Developing Taste Over Time
• (05:50) - Taste in Different Domains
• (08:44) - Taste and Business Decisions
• (16:42) - Client Relationships and Taste
• (21:30) - Understanding Client Needs
• (24:00) - The Role of Taste in Design
• (25:28) - The Importance of Practice
• (27:09) - Releasing Your Work to the World
• (27:52) - The Role of Taste Makers
• (30:11) - Balancing Client Expectations and Creative Vision
• (34:36) - The Genius of Simplifying Complex Ideas
• (40:07) - Final Thoughts and Wrap Up

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!