In this episode of Ditching Hourly, host Jonathan Stark welcomes Carl Franklin, co-host of the .NET Rocks podcast, to discuss the intricacies and benefits of value pricing. Listeners will gain insights into how value pricing can transform their business approach, moving away from the traditional hourly billing model.

The conversation covers key topics such as the differences between fixed pricing and hourly billing, the importance of the "why" conversation with clients, and strategies for handling project changes. Carl shares his experiences with proposal options, client negotiations, and overcoming resistance to value pricing.

• (00:00) Introduction
• (00:15) Carl Franklin's Background
• (02:09) Early Podcasting Days
• (04:39) The Starbucks Card Story
• (05:44) Introduction to Value Pricing
• (07:06) Fixed Pricing vs. Hourly
• (08:01) The Why Conversation
• (08:45) First Experiences with Value Pricing
• (20:39) Proposal Options and Client Choices
• (23:09) Handling Project Changes
• (25:02) Partnering and Value Pricing
• (27:00) Payment Terms and Client Negotiations
• (40:59) Expertise and Pricing Strategy
• (41:52) Overcoming Resistance to Value Pricing
• (44:02) Collaborative Projects and Revenue Sharing
• (45:44) Carl's Current Projects and Podcasts
• (48:54) Closing Remarks

Carl Franklin is a seasoned podcaster and developer, best known as the co-host of the .NET Rocks podcast, which has been a staple in the developer community since 2002. Learn more about Carl and his work at .NET Rocks.

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Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Pranav Kale returns for another reverse interview — this time grilling Jonathan about his personal productivity and time management system.

Jonathan walks through the system he's refined over two decades and used with his private coaching students: from consolidating all your to-dos in one place, to creating SOPs for recurring tasks, to the "event loop" that drives his day. The core idea: when you have the right things on your list and the right things in your calendar, you can just do whatever you feel like — and your business still moves forward.

Topics covered include why your calendar is not a to-do list, how procrastination is actually a useful signal, the "love-hate list" for designing your ideal workday, why batching doesn't work for everyone, and the Segovia principle — why one focused hour beats five mediocre ones.

This one's especially relevant for soloists who've tried rigid productivity systems and found they don't stick.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:00 The Three Buckets Every Soloist Needs
• 06:16 Get All Your To-Dos in One Place
• 09:14 SOPs and Checklists: Stop Winging It
• 18:23 The Feast-Famine Trigger
• 20:16 Why Your Calendar Is Not a To-Do List
• 25:40 The Event Loop
• 30:20 Procrastination Is a Signal
• 37:37 When You Hate Part of a Task, Cut It
• 42:06 The Love-Hate List
• 49:15 Batching vs. Gardening Your Business
• 56:22 How the System Came Together
• 59:00 The Segovia Principle
• 67:05 Adapting This to Your Personality
• 70:41 Pranav's Takeaways

Pranav Kale helps soloists find their one big idea through his Big Idea Sprint. Learn more at pranavkale.com.

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Best-selling author, speaker, and management adviser Joe Pine joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss his new book, The Transformation Economy, why it applies especially well to consultants, coaches, and advisors, and gives some tips on how to price transformations.

Chapters
Joe's Bio

B. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management adviser to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial startups alike, and he is the cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He is the coauthor of the bestselling book The Experience Economy with James H. Gilmore, as well as Infinite Possibility with Kim C. Korn. His other books include Authenticity and Mass Customization. Pine consults with numerous companies around the world. He is a lecturer in the Strategic Technology Leadership program at Northeastern University's D'Amore-McKim School of Business and a senior fellow with the European Centre for the Experience Economy, which he cofounded.

Related Links

• Joe's website » strategichorizons.com
• Joe's previous appearance on Ditching Hourly » podcast.ditchinghourly.com/episodes/joe-pine-on-pricing-experiences
• Joe's previous appearance on TBOA » thebusinessofauthority.com/episodes/the-experience-economy-with-guest-joe-pine

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Jason Staats joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about his progression from being an employee in an accounting firm to running the top accounting community on the planet.

Links

• Jason's website
• Jason's YouTube

Chapters

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Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Rural planning advisor Ben Kettle joined me on Ditching Hourly to share his transition from hourly billing “nonsense” to risk-based project pricing.

Links

• Ben's website » https://areteruralplanning.co.uk/

Chapters

• (00:00) - Ben Kettle
• (00:20) - Meet the Guest: Ben Kettle
• (00:36) - Ben's Background and Career Journey
• (02:57) - Challenges with Hourly Billing
• (09:01) - Transition to Fixed Fee and Value-Based Pricing
• (13:23) - Implementing the New Pricing Model
• (25:48) - Client Reactions and Success Stories
• (34:08) - Conclusion and Future Plans

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Co-founder of Conversion Factory, Zach Stevens, rejoined me on Ditching Hourly to give us an update on how he's growing his subscription SaaS marketing agency in year 3.

Links We Mentioned

• Conversion Factory Website
• Zach's partner Corey, on X
• The Superstruct Manifesto by David Guttman
• The "If You're Such An Expert" Ditcherville Comic

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Welcome
• (00:10) - Zach's Business Journey
• (01:19) - Conversion Factory's Growth
• (02:26) - Subscription Model Insights
• (04:04) - Hiring and Team Expansion
• (08:32) - Training and Onboarding
• (20:48) - Client Management Strategies
• (30:00) - Client Frustrations and Communication Strategies
• (31:04) - The Inefficiency of Phone Calls
• (33:19) - Setting Client Expectations
• (37:05) - AI in Copywriting and Design
• (45:53) - Subscription Model Benefits
• (54:49) - Final Thoughts and Future Plans

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Charles Miller of Platoon joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss “good” taste, how you get it, why you might want it, and what to do when your clients don’t have it.

Links

• Charles’ personal site » https://www.charlesmiller.com/
• Charles’ portfolio site » https://www.platoon.studio/

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Welcome
• (00:11) - Defining Taste
• (00:19) - Charles Miller's Background
• (00:59) - The Concept of Informed Opinion
• (02:20) - Developing Taste Over Time
• (05:50) - Taste in Different Domains
• (08:44) - Taste and Business Decisions
• (16:42) - Client Relationships and Taste
• (21:30) - Understanding Client Needs
• (24:00) - The Role of Taste in Design
• (25:28) - The Importance of Practice
• (27:09) - Releasing Your Work to the World
• (27:52) - The Role of Taste Makers
• (30:11) - Balancing Client Expectations and Creative Vision
• (34:36) - The Genius of Simplifying Complex Ideas
• (40:07) - Final Thoughts and Wrap Up

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Author of No BS Strategy, Alex M H Smith, rejoined me on Ditching Hourly to help define a very important word that few business people understand correctly.

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Welcome
• (00:11) - Guest Introduction: Alex Smith
• (01:30) - Understanding Business Strategy
• (02:02) - The Misunderstood Concept of Value
• (04:15) - Creating Value in Business
• (07:55) - Innovating Beyond Traditional Value
• (13:01) - Practical Examples and Market Research
• (18:14) - Unique Value Proposition
• (29:23) - Understanding Differentiation in Business
• (29:56) - The Importance of Unique Positioning
• (30:36) - Consulting Strategies and Unique Differences
• (31:32) - Examples of Effective Differentiation
• (33:23) - The Role of Specialization in Strategy
• (38:30) - Embracing Weaknesses for Strategic Advantage
• (40:53) - Balancing Specialization and Market Reach
• (41:51) - The Pitfalls of Over-Niching
• (48:28) - Rooting in Recognizable Categories
• (53:20) - Conclusion and Resources

• Alex's free resources » https://basicarts.org/welcome/
• Alex's book » https://basicarts.org/book/
• Alex's mailing list » https://basicarts.org/articles/
• Alex's LinkedIn » https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-m-h-smith/

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Professor-in-residence at StoryBrand and host of the new podcast Badass Softie, Dr. J.J. Peterson, joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss how to strike a balance between authority and empathy.

And be sure to stick around to the end to hear J.J.'s take on AI's impact on professional services and how to avoid creating ‘louder garbage’ :-)

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Welcome
• (00:17) - JJ Peterson's Current Ventures
• (01:11) - The Concept of 'Badass Softie'
• (03:26) - StoryBrand Framework Explained
• (06:20) - Empathy and Authority in Leadership
• (08:42) - Balancing Empathy and Authority in Coaching
• (12:38) - Personal Experiences and Coaching Styles
• (16:05) - Communicating Empathy and Authority Effectively
• (24:44) - Engaging Your Audience with Empathy and Authority
• (28:06) - Controlling the Narrative in Marketing
• (29:07) - Embracing Your Authentic Self as a Guide
• (31:41) - Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
• (40:52) - The Importance of Niching Down
• (47:35) - Leveraging AI in Professional Services
• (51:39) - Conclusion and Final Thoughts

• J.J.'s website » https://www.drjjpeterson.com/
• J.J.'s podcast » https://www.badasssoftie.com/

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Solo data advisor Shachar Meir (ex-Meta, ex-PayPal) joined me on Ditching hourly to share the details of his transition from being a manager in massive corporate environments to becoming a successful solo consultant.

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Welcome
• (01:05) - Shachar's Professional Background
• (03:47) - Transition to Solo Entrepreneurship
• (13:51) - First Steps as a Solopreneur
• (15:59) - Landing the First Project
• (20:25) - Facing the Challenges of Solopreneurship
• (25:11) - Navigating the Steep Learning Curve
• (26:17) - The Importance of Networking and Mentorship
• (29:52) - Leveraging LinkedIn for Business Growth
• (33:25) - The Art of Content Creation
• (43:18) - Financial Stability and Client Acquisition
• (51:47) - Final Thoughts and Advice

• LinkedIn Profile » https://www.linkedin.com/in/shacharmeir/
• YouTube Channel » https://www.youtube.com/@shacharmeir

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

(NOTE: this ep was recorded in October 2025, but I didn't get around to publishing it until March 2026. It was WILD listening to the AI portions of the conversation five months later - post OpenClaw.)

Old friend and self-described “workaholic” developer Tim Dietrich joined me on Ditching Hourly to share his journey from FileMaker freelancer to the undisputed SuiteQL expert in the NetSuite ecosystem — a niche so specific that the platform itself became his marketing engine.

We also dig into what happens when AI comes for your platform and how to think about the next wave.

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction
• (00:53) - Tim's Background
• (03:02) - Early Career and FileMaker Days
• (06:08) - Transition to NetSuite
• (16:02) - SuiteQL and SQL Integration
• (21:00) - Positioning as SuiteQL Expert
• (30:03) - Managing Demand and Consulting Opportunities
• (34:39) - Current Client Work and Scaling Back
• (36:01) - The Rise of AI in NetSuite
• (50:27) - Comparing to Other Waves and Platforms
• (01:05:37) - Exploring Monetization Strategies
• (01:22:31) - Future Trends and Opportunities

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!