Best-selling author, speaker, and management adviser Joe Pine joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss his new book, The Transformation Economy, why it applies especially well to consultants, coaches, and advisors, and gives some tips on how to price transformations.

Chapters

• (00:00) - Welcome and Introduction
• (00:26) - Discussing the Experience Economy
• (00:43) - Introducing the Transformation Economy
• (01:26) - Understanding Transformations and Aspirations
• (04:15) - Frameworks for Identity Change
• (07:09) - Real-Life Examples of Transformations
• (13:27) - Pricing Transformations and Value
• (18:01) - Guaranteeing Transformations
• (22:52) - Navigating Client Relationships
• (23:08) - The Power of Commitment
• (23:58) - Value-Based Pricing
• (25:01) - The Turnaround King
• (26:15) - Maintaining Progress and Overcoming Setbacks
• (28:13) - Commitment to the Process
• (29:41) - Measuring Success and Transformation
• (36:51) - Creating a Sustainable Business Model
• (37:20) - Book Launch and Writing Process
• (42:05) - Conclusion and Resources

Joe's Bio

B. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management adviser to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial startups alike, and he is the cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He is the coauthor of the bestselling book The Experience Economy with James H. Gilmore, as well as Infinite Possibility with Kim C. Korn. His other books include Authenticity and Mass Customization. Pine consults with numerous companies around the world. He is a lecturer in the Strategic Technology Leadership program at Northeastern University's D'Amore-McKim School of Business and a senior fellow with the European Centre for the Experience Economy, which he cofounded.

Related Links

• Joe's website » strategichorizons.com
• Joe's previous appearance on Ditching Hourly » podcast.ditchinghourly.com/episodes/joe-pine-on-pricing-experiences
• Joe's previous appearance on TBOA » thebusinessofauthority.com/episodes/the-experience-economy-with-guest-joe-pine

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Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

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I hope to see you there!

Jason Staats joined me on Ditching Hourly to talk about his progression from being an employee in an accounting firm to running the top accounting community on the planet.

Links

• Jason's website
• Jason's YouTube

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Welcome
• (00:19) - Jason's Background and Career Journey
• (01:42) - Transition to Online Content Creation
• (02:42) - Early Challenges and Successes in Video Content
• (08:10) - The Importance of Writing and Speaking
• (10:09) - Building Authority and Professional Visibility
• (18:50) - Starting and Growing a Community
• (22:27) - The Attraction Offer Strategy
• (23:09) - Lessons from the Akimbo Workshop
• (25:08) - Building Community Retention
• (27:43) - Managing Community Dynamics
• (34:08) - Onboarding and Engagement Tactics
• (35:58) - Revenue Streams and Sponsorships
• (39:04) - Challenges and Advice for Content Creators
• (42:58) - Final Thoughts and Contact Information

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Rural planning advisor Ben Kettle joined me on Ditching Hourly to share his transition from hourly billing “nonsense” to risk-based project pricing.

Links

• Ben's website » https://areteruralplanning.co.uk/

Chapters

• (00:00) - Ben Kettle
• (00:20) - Meet the Guest: Ben Kettle
• (00:36) - Ben's Background and Career Journey
• (02:57) - Challenges with Hourly Billing
• (09:01) - Transition to Fixed Fee and Value-Based Pricing
• (13:23) - Implementing the New Pricing Model
• (25:48) - Client Reactions and Success Stories
• (34:08) - Conclusion and Future Plans

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Co-founder of Conversion Factory, Zach Stevens, rejoined me on Ditching Hourly to give us an update on how he's growing his subscription SaaS marketing agency in year 3.

Links We Mentioned

• Conversion Factory Website
• Zach's partner Corey, on X
• The Superstruct Manifesto by David Guttman
• The "If You're Such An Expert" Ditcherville Comic

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Welcome
• (00:10) - Zach's Business Journey
• (01:19) - Conversion Factory's Growth
• (02:26) - Subscription Model Insights
• (04:04) - Hiring and Team Expansion
• (08:32) - Training and Onboarding
• (20:48) - Client Management Strategies
• (30:00) - Client Frustrations and Communication Strategies
• (31:04) - The Inefficiency of Phone Calls
• (33:19) - Setting Client Expectations
• (37:05) - AI in Copywriting and Design
• (45:53) - Subscription Model Benefits
• (54:49) - Final Thoughts and Future Plans

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Charles Miller of Platoon joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss “good” taste, how you get it, why you might want it, and what to do when your clients don’t have it.

Links

• Charles’ personal site » https://www.charlesmiller.com/
• Charles’ portfolio site » https://www.platoon.studio/

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Welcome
• (00:11) - Defining Taste
• (00:19) - Charles Miller's Background
• (00:59) - The Concept of Informed Opinion
• (02:20) - Developing Taste Over Time
• (05:50) - Taste in Different Domains
• (08:44) - Taste and Business Decisions
• (16:42) - Client Relationships and Taste
• (21:30) - Understanding Client Needs
• (24:00) - The Role of Taste in Design
• (25:28) - The Importance of Practice
• (27:09) - Releasing Your Work to the World
• (27:52) - The Role of Taste Makers
• (30:11) - Balancing Client Expectations and Creative Vision
• (34:36) - The Genius of Simplifying Complex Ideas
• (40:07) - Final Thoughts and Wrap Up

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Author of No BS Strategy, Alex M H Smith, rejoined me on Ditching Hourly to help define a very important word that few business people understand correctly.

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Welcome
• (00:11) - Guest Introduction: Alex Smith
• (01:30) - Understanding Business Strategy
• (02:02) - The Misunderstood Concept of Value
• (04:15) - Creating Value in Business
• (07:55) - Innovating Beyond Traditional Value
• (13:01) - Practical Examples and Market Research
• (18:14) - Unique Value Proposition
• (29:23) - Understanding Differentiation in Business
• (29:56) - The Importance of Unique Positioning
• (30:36) - Consulting Strategies and Unique Differences
• (31:32) - Examples of Effective Differentiation
• (33:23) - The Role of Specialization in Strategy
• (38:30) - Embracing Weaknesses for Strategic Advantage
• (40:53) - Balancing Specialization and Market Reach
• (41:51) - The Pitfalls of Over-Niching
• (48:28) - Rooting in Recognizable Categories
• (53:20) - Conclusion and Resources

Guest Links

• Alex's free resources » https://basicarts.org/welcome/
• Alex's book » https://basicarts.org/book/
• Alex's mailing list » https://basicarts.org/articles/
• Alex's LinkedIn » https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-m-h-smith/

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Professor-in-residence at StoryBrand and host of the new podcast Badass Softie, Dr. J.J. Peterson, joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss how to strike a balance between authority and empathy.

And be sure to stick around to the end to hear J.J.'s take on AI's impact on professional services and how to avoid creating ‘louder garbage’ :-)

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Welcome
• (00:17) - JJ Peterson's Current Ventures
• (01:11) - The Concept of 'Badass Softie'
• (03:26) - StoryBrand Framework Explained
• (06:20) - Empathy and Authority in Leadership
• (08:42) - Balancing Empathy and Authority in Coaching
• (12:38) - Personal Experiences and Coaching Styles
• (16:05) - Communicating Empathy and Authority Effectively
• (24:44) - Engaging Your Audience with Empathy and Authority
• (28:06) - Controlling the Narrative in Marketing
• (29:07) - Embracing Your Authentic Self as a Guide
• (31:41) - Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
• (40:52) - The Importance of Niching Down
• (47:35) - Leveraging AI in Professional Services
• (51:39) - Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Links

• J.J.'s website » https://www.drjjpeterson.com/
• J.J.'s podcast » https://www.badasssoftie.com/

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Solo data advisor Shachar Meir (ex-Meta, ex-PayPal) joined me on Ditching hourly to share the details of his transition from being a manager in massive corporate environments to becoming a successful solo consultant.

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Welcome
• (01:05) - Shachar's Professional Background
• (03:47) - Transition to Solo Entrepreneurship
• (13:51) - First Steps as a Solopreneur
• (15:59) - Landing the First Project
• (20:25) - Facing the Challenges of Solopreneurship
• (25:11) - Navigating the Steep Learning Curve
• (26:17) - The Importance of Networking and Mentorship
• (29:52) - Leveraging LinkedIn for Business Growth
• (33:25) - The Art of Content Creation
• (43:18) - Financial Stability and Client Acquisition
• (51:47) - Final Thoughts and Advice

Shachar's Links

• LinkedIn Profile » https://www.linkedin.com/in/shacharmeir/
• YouTube Channel » https://www.youtube.com/@shacharmeir

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Big Idea archaeologist Pranav Kale joined me on Ditching Hourly for a reverse interview about my journey to the center of the solar system.

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Welcome
• (00:39) - Pranav's Evolution and Current Focus
• (03:01) - Jonathan's Epiphany on Hourly Billing
• (06:26) - The Trust Fracture in Hourly Billing
• (07:45) - Jonathan's Problem-Solving Journey
• (16:59) - The Move to Rhode Island and Finding the Solution
• (22:38) - Implementing Value-Based Pricing
• (26:30) - Content Creation and Teaching Others
• (30:35) - Understanding Business Personality Types
• (31:08) - The Journey to Writing a Book
• (31:56) - Transitioning to Advisory Roles
• (32:37) - The Impact of the iPhone Announcement
• (33:37) - Responsive Web Design and Consulting
• (35:46) - Facing Criticism and Adjusting Messaging
• (39:50) - Finding the Central Theme
• (53:06) - The Importance of Differentiation
• (59:53) - Concluding Thoughts and Advice

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Laravel expert Joel Clermont joined me on Ditching Hourly to share how he and his co-founder run their successful dev subscription business. 

Chapters

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Introduction
• (00:16) - Joel's Background and Business Model Transition
• (01:54) - Launching the Dev Subscription Model
• (04:47) - Marketing and Initial Success
• (07:44) - Client Profiles and Demand
• (11:19) - Managing Client Expectations and Scope
• (18:58) - Onboarding and Project Management
• (21:21) - Handling Messy Projects and Infrastructure
• (25:06) - Client Capacity and Longevity
• (26:47) - Exploring Client Sizes and Ideal Fits
• (28:39) - Balancing Workload and Client Expectations
• (32:06) - Ensuring Client Satisfaction
• (34:47) - Managing Work and Time Effectively
• (43:11) - Challenges and Downsides of Subscription Model
• (47:54) - Marketing Strategies for Developers
• (52:52) - Conclusion and Resources

Joel’s Links

• Joel’s website » https://nocompromises.io/
• Joel’s books » https://masteringlaravel.io/books
• Joel’s courses » https://masteringlaravel.io/courses
• Joel’s community » https://masteringlaravel.io/community

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!

Digital marketing strategist Eleanor Mayrhofer joined me on Ditching Hourly to describe exactly how she productized her web design services.

Links:

• Eleanor's website » https://www.eleanormayrhofer.com/ditching
• Eleanor's LinkedIn » https://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanormayrhofer/

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Welcome
• (00:14) - Eleanor's Background and Business Model
• (00:52) - Straight to Non-Hourly
• (02:01) - Starting a Solo Business During COVID
• (02:44) - Initial Market Approach and Challenges
• (03:48) - Developing a Productized Service
• (04:25) - Current Business Model: Website in a Week
• (05:31) - Client Interaction and Project Scope
• (09:40) - Copywriting and Strategy Sessions
• (16:31) - Handling Project Scope and Client Expectations
• (21:24) - Marketing and Client Acquisition
• (23:20) - Client Commissions and Referrals
• (23:40) - Subscription Maintenance Services
• (24:53) - Positioning and Target Audience
• (25:53) - Overcoming Launch Procrastination
• (27:11) - Client Collaboration and Revisions
• (28:55) - Technical Setup and DNS Challenges
• (31:25) - Post-Launch Support and Testimonials
• (33:13) - Pros and Cons of Productized Services
• (36:55) - Sales Process and Lead Time
• (38:55) - Long-Term Plans and Project Juggling
• (41:01) - Avoiding Boredom with Productized Services
• (42:20) - Conclusion and Contact Information

----

Do you have questions about how to improve your business?

Things like:

• Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?
• Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?
• Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?

Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.

Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.

To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to:

https://jonathanstark.com/call

I hope to see you there!