Many of us were taught that faith means believing the right things, and that the rest gets sorted out after we die. Dallas Willard spent decades gently insisting there’s far more available now. In this 2008 conversation, recorded in Los Angeles and one Michael counts among the highlights of his life, Dallas describes salvation as an interactive relationship with God: a life lived with him today, not a ticket held for later.

He and Michael talk about why solitude is the most radical of the disciplines, how to actually practice blessing those who curse you (traffic is a good place to start), and why grace isn’t opposed to effort but to earning. Dallas also speaks tenderly to anyone who feels too broken to begin: stop trying, he says, and learn to set the Lord always before you.

Dallas Willard (1935–2013) taught philosophy at the University of Southern California for more than four decades. His books, including The Spirit of the Disciplines, Hearing God, The Divine Conspiracy, and Renovation of the Heart, continue to shape how the church understands spiritual formation.

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!

Dr. Chuck DeGroat is back for his fourth podcast visit — and this time he brings a question that has followed him through his mid-fifties: why is it taking so long to grow up? His new book, Who You’re Becoming: The Slow and Courageous Work of Cultivating Character in a Narcissistic Age, grew out of that wrestling and a decade of sitting with leaders whose language had outrun their transformation.

Michael and Chuck talk about why character change is so slow, and why the answer has less to do with discipline than with a nervous system that’s stuck in chronic storm. They discuss faux vulnerability — the way people can acquire all the right therapeutic language without anything actually shifting underneath. They talk about the difference between chasing a moral standard out there and becoming who you actually are. Chuck tells the story of a pastor who, through tears, looked at his own online presence and said: I don’t know who that guy is. And they end the way you’d hope a conversation like this would end — with an ancient Celtic breath prayer, led by Chuck, that invites the listener into stillness rather than just describing it.

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!

In 1995, Michael sat down with Eugene Peterson for a conversation that was published in the Mars Hill Review and later in Eugene's own book Subversive Spirituality. There were no podcasts then. No one could have imagined that someday a person driving to work or sitting alone at home could put on headphones and hear a conversation recorded decades earlier. Eugene believed words were never merely information — they carried presence, they revealed, they deepened intimacy. So Michael began to wonder: what if this conversation could have a voice? And then a better possibility emerged. What if Eugene's words could be read by his son?

The voice you hear speaking Eugene Peterson's words belongs to Eugene's son, Eric Peterson, who recently retired after twenty-nine years of pastoral ministry of his own.

In the conversation, Eugene talks about why he's suspicious of Bible studies, what it means to live a life of prayer rather than merely say your prayers, why poets and novelists are the church's most important allies, and what it looks like to stop working from anxiety and start working from grace. At the end, Michael asks what Eugene wants to be remembered for. He laughs at the question, says it isn't a good one, and then answers it.

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!

Dr. Alison Cook is a psychologist, host of The Best of You podcast, and the author of The Secure Soul — and the first line she wrote for that book was: a part of me doesn't like God very much. She assumed her editor would cut it. Her editor said it was staying.

That moment — a prayer walk in London, an eight-year-old part of her that didn't want to be there — opens a conversation with Michael about what it actually looks like to pay attention to the inner life. Alison and Michael talk about bids for connection: the tiny, persistent movements within us that signal something needs to be seen. They discuss how trust breaks — not just through the big wounds, but through the ordinary absence of presence, the childhood of empty sunlit rooms. They get into the shadow self, the young one, and what the difference between bruised and broken might mean for people who don't see themselves in the language of shattered things. And they talk about what it looks like to train the soul — not through willpower or discipline, but through two movements: recognize and return.

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!

Seven spots remain for the October men's weekend — and Michael wanted the men (and women!) who still needed to hear about it to hear it from two men who've been there.

Matt found out about the Restoring the Soul podcast from a therapist in 2018, listened for a few months, heard an ad for the men's weekend, and signed up. He showed up to the airport terrified, texted his therapist from the gate, flew to Denver, and left four days later with something he'd never had before: the sense that he was seen without anyone trying to fix him. That experience eventually redirected his career. He's now a licensed therapist who staffs the weekend himself.

Brian arrived at 3:59 for a 4:00 start. He came because he was exhausted, running from everything, and carrying more shame than he knew. He was told it would be the safest place he'd ever been. He didn't believe it — until it was.

This episode is a conversation between Michael, Matt, and Brian about what 66 hours in Monument, Colorado actually looks like, and what it's still doing in their lives years later. The weekend runs October 1–4. Seven spots remain. restoringthesoulweekend.com

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!

Dr. Jim Wilder has been thinking about the relationship between brain science and spiritual formation since before most people knew the question existed. He trained under one of the inventors of the EEG machine, spent years working alongside Dallas Willard, and has spent decades building what he calls the Life Model — a unified account of what it looks like to grow up into the likeness of Christ, neurologically and spiritually. This conversation is an hour inside that work.

Michael and Jim talk about why the right brain runs faster than the conscious mind — and what that means for every Christian who has tried to think their way into a changed life. They talk about why joy isn't a rare gift but the baseline the brain was designed to run on, and what happens when it isn't. They discuss identity, shame, and what it means for the brain to perceive itself only through how other people see us. And Jim tells the story of a professor who looked at a kid who couldn't spell and said, "You might want to consider being a writer." Eighteen books later, that moment still explains everything.

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!

Andy Crouch's The Tech-Wise Family isn't about keeping pornography out of your home. It's about building the kind of home where you know what you actually want — and where technology doesn't quietly replace it. In part two of this conversation, Michael and Andy get into the ten commitments at the heart of the book, and they're not what you'd expect.

They talk about why the goal is wisdom and courage rather than limits, and how untethered access to technology quietly reinforces the fear of being known. They discuss what Sabbath actually looks like — not collapsing on the couch but feasting, playing, worshipping, and resting — and why Andy thinks it's the most broken commandment. They get into what kids say they actually want help with when it comes to devices, which turns out not to be pornography but sleep. And the episode ends somewhere no one expects: at the bedside of the dying, and what it means to be a family that knows how to show up, put the phone down, and stay.

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!

Andy Crouch didn't set out to write a parenting book. But when he'd mention offhand that his family had no screens in the house until his kids turned ten, young parents would rush to him afterward with what he described as hungry desperation in their eyes. The Tech-Wise Family came out of that hunger — and out of original research with Barna that helped quantify what most people were already sensing: something has shifted, and it isn't just about the kids.

In part one of this two-part conversation, Michael and Andy discuss why the real problem isn't screen-time limits but the entire posture of a life shaped around "easy everywhere." Andy makes a surprising case that the quest for effortless technology is, at its root, the same quest as alchemy, and that something spiritually dangerous coils around devices that promise to make us like God. They also talk about boredom: what it actually is, why creativity lives on the other side of it, and what we lose when we never have to sit still long enough to find out.

Part two continues next week.

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!

Kintsugi is the Japanese art of mending broken pottery with gold — not to hide the damage, but to make the fractures the most beautiful part. Mako Fujimura, one of the world's leading contemporary artists, and his wife Haejin, an attorney and founder of Embers International, have built their lives and work around that image. This conversation is about what it actually looks like to believe it.

Mako talks about his own experience of 9/11 as a Ground Zero resident, and why he sees making — painting, writing, building an organization — as an act of invoking new creation in the middle of darkness. Haejin talks about the women and children her team serves in Mumbai's red light district, and why Kintsugi is the only metaphor honest enough for what restoration means there. They also talk about what the pandemic revealed about who a society actually depends on, why Jesus chose to appear after the resurrection as a wounded human, and what it means that the Kintsugi master doesn't begin mending until he can see beauty in the fragments.

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!

This is the second half of Michael's conversation with Dr. Dan Allender, and it's the more personal of the two. Dan opens by talking about his mother, her death earlier that year, the borderline unpredictability, the way she triangulated him into a surrogate role he never asked for and couldn't escape. He shares it not as a confession but as a map: here is where the wound began, here is how long it took to see it clearly, here is what it cost and what it gave.

From there, they talk about what the healing process actually looks like — not as a program, but as a decades-long practice of reading your own life with new eyes. Dan's closing answer is one of the most quietly powerful moments in ten years of this show: write your story, read it to someone, and then face the unsaid. The fear, he says, isn't really that we'll discover how broken we are. It's that we'll discover how beautiful we are.

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!

Dan Allender has spent thirty years doing work most people would rather not look at — and in this first of two conversations, he and Michael go there together. Dan is a psychologist, professor at The Seattle School, and the author of The Wounded Heart, among many others. Michael first encountered his work in 1989, at one of Dan's conferences, in a season when his own double life had just come undone. That history is present in every minute of this conversation.

They talk about why sexual brokenness isn't a category that belongs only to people who've experienced abuse — it belongs to all of us. They explore what lust actually means: not just desire, but desire as relief and as revenge. They discuss the ways women bear the image of God differently than men, and what that has to do with misogyny and the #metoo movement. And Dan talks about shame not as the wound, but as the thing that — when we stop running from it — leads us back toward God.

Part two continues the conversation.

Support the show

ENGAGE THE RESTORING THE SOUL PODCAST:
- Follow us on YouTube
- Tweet us at @michaeljcusick and @PodcastRTS
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on Instagram & Twitter
- Follow Michael on Twitter
- Email us at [email protected] 

Thanks for listening!