Recently, I turned 43... I don't really celebrate my birthdays anymore.

Don't worry; I have an amazing wife who makes sure there's always cake.

But I do always try to take a moment and reflect on my past year because “The only time you should ever look back, is to see how far you've come.”

Well, today, it's not just about my journey; it's about ours.

We've hit a massive Service Design Show milestone: 200 episodes!

That's a new interview every two weeks for over 8 years.

And by now, we've clocked in over 500.000 listens to our conversations. Truly mind-boggling.

Especially when you consider how niche our field is (still). It tells me what I do matters to people like you.

Honestly, if I had to, I'd still do this show just for my own learning... but knowing you're out there makes it so much better.

To celebrate, I'm flipping the script. For this episode, it's me answering YOUR questions. Some are about service design, some get a bit personal...

Here's a sneak peek:

• Is Journey Management the next big thing?
• Will service design disappear?
• How does the Show make money?
• How do I keep sane working solo?

You might be surprised by some of the answers.

Guess, there's only one way to find out...

This episode was a lot of fun and quite a challenge to produce. Let me know if you like this format – maybe we'll do a follow up...

Take care,

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to episode 200

01:50 Why Service Design

04:30 Lessons learned from 200+ conversations

10:15 The business model

16:15 How to stay healthy and sane

25:00 Communicating service design

31:00 Designing timeless services

36:00 Is Journey Management the next big thing

40:00 Where are things going

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfonteijn/
• https://www.servicedesignshow.com/circle/

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

Join our private community with smart and generous in-house service design professionals.

⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle

Is design facing a crisis? You don't have to spend much time on LinkedIn to read about the recent layoffs, studio closures, and debates about our value. Whether or not you call it a crisis, it's hard to deny that things have been shaken up recently. But instead of focusing on surface level symptoms, let's dive deeper. In this episode, we sit down with Yvonne Tran, design director at the New York Times, to explore the underlying forces that shape design. Where are we coming from, and what could be its next destination. Why is design in its current state? Is this a backlash against the widespread understanding of "design thinking"? If everyone's a designer, what's the unique value a professional brings? Despite the challenges, Yvonne still sees a bright future for design. As our clients and colleagues evolve and mature, so must we. In our conversation, Yvonne outlined three key areas where design can continue to provide unique value. A thought-provoking episode for anyone interested in new ways to think about how to keep playing a meaningful role in the future. It's all too easy to get bogged down in the daily grind. What I enjoyed about this conversation with Yvonne is that we zoomed out and challenged our perspectives. Let's look beyond the horizon of this quarter and make decisions that are grounded in a long-term perspective. Inspired? Share this with someone who needs to hear it. Take care, ~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 199

03:30 Who is Yvonne

04:30 How she stumbled to SD

06:00 Lightning Round

10:00 Design, Designers, & Innovation

14:00 The promise of design thinking

17:30 What's the impact

27:00 The new role of design community

37:00 Aligning people's expectations

39:30 How to accelerate demand

44:00 How to measure success

48:30 One takeaway

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/yvonnetran/
• Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer (Book) - https://a.co/d/3Jho54D

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle

This has to stop... I don't care what they say. Chatbots s*ck.

But we, as service design professionals, have the power to make things better. Sure, ChatGPT and Google Gemini are impressive tools, but a chatbot on a company's website? Probably one of the most frustrating experiences you can have these days. This trend toward replacing humans in service delivery is a growing concern. There's nothing wrong with trying to optimize processes. It becomes a problem when it's done in a mindless way to solely cut costs at the expense of the user experience. Our guest, ​Cameron Tonkinwise​, makes a compelling case for preserving the human element in service delivery. Because removing this vital component erodes something incredibly valuable that AI (or any other tech) can't and will never be able to replicate. As you can imagine, simply pointing out the problem isn't enough. So, in our conversation, we explore how to make a strong case for human-driven services... even to the most skeptical stakeholders. Spoiler: Waiting for our clients to change their minds isn't the answer. It requires a proactive approach on our part. If you work in a product or tech-driven environment, this episode will hopefully give you the energy and ideas to challenge the relentless push for short-term optimization. The chat with Cameron reminded me that we have a responsibility to design the future we want to see rather than just being of service to others. Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact! Take care, ~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 This is Episode 198

04:00 Who is Cameron

05:00 How he stumbled to SD

12:30 the current perspective to SD

15:00 the ideal outcome

16:45 A vastly uneducated community

24:00 Why the model isn't adopted

26:00 How to support the current economy

29:30 Hockey puck story

33:30 Thoughts in AI

39:00 What you can be offering

41:30 Expressing the need

45:00 Importance of frontline observation

50:00 One practical takeaway

52:00 Connect with Cameron

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameron-tonkinwise-80a5987/

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle

Imagine that you had the power to look into the future...

That you could escape from the short-term focus and envision a world years or even decades away. And on top of this, you'd be able to turn this vision into something real, a roadmap to guide your decisions today.

Wouldn't that change everything?

Now, this episode won't give you a crystal ball, but it might be the next best thing.

We all know that the challenges we face today require different ways of thinking in order to solve them. If we continue on the trajectory we're currently on, our future isn't looking very bright, to say the least.

In order to create a different, better future, we have to first imagine it.

But with our world changing so fast, how can we even predict tomorrow, let alone years from now? Aren't we just better off focussing on the here and now?

Not according to our guest, Ali Draudt. Ali teaches us that predicting the future is a hidden superpower of designers. Lucky for us, Ali is an expert – author of "What the Foresight," holding a degree in Design Strategy and Strategic Foresight, and is currently the Head of Innovation and Design Strategy at Nike.

In this episode, you'll hear how to:

• Explore worldviews that might be radically different from your own.
• Challenge your existing beliefs and biases to imagine the seemingly impossible.
• Use practical tools to make abstract futures tangible.

So, if you're to unleash your hidden superpower and make better decisions today you'll be in for a treat!

Talking with Ali reminded me that the dots only connect in hindsight. The only way to make those breakthrough, serendipitous connections is by continuing to explore things that seem irrelevant now.

Enjoy and keep making a positive impact.

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 197

04:00 Who is Ali

04:45 How Ali Stumbled into Service Design

06:30 Lightning Round

08:00 Moving beyond antromorphic design

10:30 What's truly human-centered

17:30 Adopting to this practice

21:00 Next big thing to go beyond

24:00 Changing levels of zoom

31:00 Coping mechanism on the speed

38:00 Using the Steep Model in Teams

40:00 4 archetypes to future potentials

45:30 What good work look like

49:30 Co-creation mode

50:45 What I hope you'd remember

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/alidadraudt/
• The Thing from the Future (Team-building game) https://situationlab.org/project/the-thing-from-the-future/
• The Ministry for the Future - Kim Stanley Robinson (Book) https://a.co/d/992fmv5

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠

https://servicedesignshow.com/circle

Here is something that makes many service design professionals cringe...

The question to quantify the impact design has on the company goals.

You'll see that finding the answer to this question is actually surprisingly easier (and more fun) than you might think.

Here's a business mantra you might have heard before: If it's not being measured, it's not important.

Numbers rule. That's that cold, hard reality of how companies operate.

Now, as a design community, we've always struggled to quantify the value we bring to tangible business outcomes.

Sure, there are valid reasons – we often work on systemic challenges where it's hard to make a water-tight correlation between our efforts and the specific impact they have on the goals.

There are just many factors at play that have an influence, and isolating our contribution is hard or, rather, impossible.

So, we often get hung up on this attribution question as we feel we can't "prove" how much we've contributed.

Even if we want to measure our contribution, we find that the right measuring processes aren't in place to do so. So, we'd rather focus our time and energy on solving the actual challenge at hand than implementing those processes from the ground up.

And let's be real, not many of us wake up excited about capturing things in a spreadsheet.

So yes, there are reasons why quantifying the impact of design is hard and often lacking.

But, as we've recently seen, we're paying a high price for this.

Just scroll through your LinkedIn feed to see many sad examples of that playing out. When budgets tighten, design often takes the hit as it can't show, in numbers, its contribution to the business.

Okay, I know this hasn't been a very uplifting message so far. But here's the good news.

There is a group of professionals out there who absolutely love design and thrive on these types of measurement challenges.

Of course, I'm referring to our friends from the DesignOps community.

When we collaborate closely together, we have the power to anchor design as an indispensable strategic discipline. At least that's the firm conviction of Patrizia Bertini, our guest in this episode.

Patrizia, shares her journey of implementing measurement frameworks that facilitate healthier conversations between design professionals and business stakeholders. In the conversation, we dive into the juicy stuff like value attribution, measuring systemic impact, and prototyping with numbers.

I can't guarantee this episode will turn you into a spreadsheet enthusiast, but it will definitely inspire you to be BFFs with someone who loves crunching numbers.

Let's face it; we might sometimes feel intimidated by numbers. We want to prove with scientific rigor that things are the way we say. But here's a secret: educated guesses are everything you need...

Enjoy the chat and keep making a positive impact!

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 196

03:30 Who is Patricia

04:15 Patricia's first Service Design encounter

05:00 Lightning Round

06:30 Thoughts about design identity

12:00 The decline of strategic design

16:30 Unpacking data triangulation

21:00 Identifying problem in onboarding

24:45 Design thinking for business problems

30:00 Going against the system's structure

32:30 Initiating organizational values

42:00 The impact of translating what the business is

46:00 How to bridge the gap

51:30 Who should be accountable?

56:00 What to avoid and what we should do

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• http://linkedin.com/in/patriziabertini

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

Join our private community for in-house service design professionals.

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What's the most important tool in your service design toolbox? No, it's not a fancy piece of software or a groundbreaking methodology. The most important tool is you. A bit cheesy? Perhaps. True? Absolutely! Let me explain. You're the enabler for all actions leading to positive change. It's easy to overlook the importance of keeping this tool—yourself—in top shape. And you can only deliver your best work when you're healthy and happy. If you're drained by unfulfilling work or feel your talent is going to waste, all the other tools in your kit won't matter. So, how do we get to a place where we do work that gives us joy and motivates us to get up in the morning? That's the theme of the conversation with our guest, Frances Yllana. Frances shares practical ways to align our work with our purpose. And we discuss the importance of prioritizing conscious career development, even in busy times. As you'll hear, the great thing is we can apply many tools and methods from our own toolbox to achieve this. This episode is all about making sure you do the work you want to do, not just the work you know how to do. Yes, the stakes are high! The conversation with Frances inspired me to spend even more time understanding myself—when do I operate best and deliver my most valuable work? There's a lot of power in knowing yourself, so hopefully, it will get you in this mood as well. Keep making a positive impact.

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 195

03:30 Who is Frances

04:00 How she stumbled to Service Design

05:30 Lightning Round

08:45 Finding purpose by doing work outside of our work

10:30 What lead to this thinking

14:30 How the purpose translated

18:30 Increasing the chance of clarity

20:30 Insights to figuring out what you should be pursuing

27:00 How we can identify the impact that we are contributing

32:45 A knack for recognizing wins

39:30 Helpful methods to help you find purpose in your work

43:30 Piece of advice

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/francesy/
• SunsayS.cool - https://www.sundays.cool/
• Send a letter of gratitude to someone - https://www.sundays.cool/praise

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle

Design is at risk of being misused and exploited...

Wow, I had to let that sink in for a moment.

It's not the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of the service design community.

I generally see a bunch of optimistic and passionate professionals dedicated to making the services around us better.

However, our latest guest, George Aye, delivers an important wake-up call. George argues that when we solely focus on the feasibility aspect of our work, we fall into the trap of contributing to challenges that aren't aligned with our values.

It's not enough to merely ask whether we can do something.

As a practice, we must take responsibility and hold each other more accountable for the impact we have on the people that we serve. The key question, according to George, is whether we should contribute to a particular challenge. No challenge is too small for thorough scrutiny. We need to overcome the idea that we should get involved in every project and demand higher ethical standards from ourselves and our clients.

But what does this mean in practice?

In our conversation, George, who leads a highly respected design studio, spills the beans on how his team holds him accountable for the clients and projects they take on. Why he has written over 50 break-up letters to clients and the importance of the "gut-check" tool as the crucial compass for guiding their decision-making process.

This conversation might make you uncomfortable at times—I certainly felt that way. Yet, I wouldn't have wanted to miss it for a moment, and I believe you might feel the same after listening.

The topic is too important to ignore.

One statement from George that continues to resonate with me: When a lawyer or doctor makes a mistake, they lose their license. What are the consequences when a design professional screws up?

This is a key question we must address to mature our field.

Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact.

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 194

03:45 Who is George

04:30 Lightning Round

08:00 Should we do it?

10:30 Am I asking this question enough?

14:30 A Project promoting unhealthy behaviors

20:00 Guns and tobacco

22:15 The risk of getting fired and it's trade-offs

26:15 How can we know when to speak up?

30:45 Examples when making a wrong judgment call

31:15 The Gut check

48:15 What to do when it doesn't play out well

53:45 How do we bring this to a broader community?

57:15 Moral injury

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• LinkedIn - ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgeaye/⁠
• George's studio: ⁠http://greatergoodstudio.com/⁠
• The Social Change by Design Database: ⁠https://airtable.com/appxBXOcR6tqV5phJ/shrmOgXzu5DD2NlYC/tbltgZ0yFEmLkqqJe⁠
• Sign up for the fireside chat: - https://go.servicedesignshow.com/kdpbv

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

Join our private community for in-house service design professionals.

⁠⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle⁠

Could it be that we're missing the ultimate metric of success?

If I asked you about the metrics driving your organization, I bet revenue, costs, and profit would top the list. Sure, staying in business means earning money, and for most organizations, growing profit has been the default mode of operation.

But here's the catch: more money shouldn't, and frankly can't, be the end goal. We all feel the consequences of that mindset today. So, if profit isn't the ultimate metric of success, what could be the alternative?

Our guest, Alan Moore, has an inspiring take on this. According to Alan, the metric to optimize our business for is beauty. Yes, you read that right, beauty. Now, I know this will sound a bit unconventional for some organizations, but just because beauty isn't a recognized metric doesn't mean it lacks importance.

Just imagine a world where we actually would optimize for beauty instead of profit. Intriguing, right?

So, is this just wishful thinking? Surely not! In our conversation, Alan shares practical tools and examples of companies that have embraced this philosophy, taking the first step toward a more beautiful business.

This is one of those conversations that could open up a whole new area in your opportunity space that will help you design better services.

What resonates with me about Alan's story? It's aspirational. It challenges the mainstream narrative and demands courage to follow this path. Perfect for the design community to embrace if you ask me

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 193

07:15 Who is Alan

08:30 How he stumbled upon Service Design

10:15 Lightning Round

11:30 Beauty will change the world

16:15 Why is it about beauty

22:45 3 Steps to Reset

28:45 How to look at the world differently

37:00 Steps in the "Do" Stage

47:45 When should we push reset?

49:15 Applying the work you're doing today

50:45 The point is to strive

52:15 How to know you're making progress

1:00:15 What you can do today

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://uk.linkedin.com/in/alanmoore2
• https://beautiful.business
• https://thebeautifuldesignproject.com/
• No Straight Lines by Alan Moore (book) - https://a.co/d/9metoPr
• Do Design by Alan Moore (book) https://thedobook.co/products/do-design-why-beauty-is-key-to-everything

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle

Here's a crazy idea... Imagine you had a team of service design superheroes by your side.

A team that helps you take on the status quo head-on, challenging organizational inertia with confidence.

As service design professionals, we're playing the long game. Change is a journey, and navigating tough times is part of adventure.

Over the holidays, I read "The Long Game". In the book, the author underscores the importance of a strong support group to overcome short-term challenges and bridge the unavoidable chasm of doubt.

Well, enter the ​Circle community​ – our, or rather your, team of service design superheroes. If you've been following my work, you'll know that we've been carefully building this support group over the last three years. Since day one, the Circle has been an ongoing prototype, and (fortunately) not everything works out as we plan.

In this episode, you get a peek behind the curtains as we share the lessons learned from the past year. You'll also hear about our hopes for the future and what the next iteration of the Circle could look like.

The insights aren't just for those creating their own (internal) community; they will resonate with anyone on a journey of professional growth.

Having experienced the Circle firsthand, I have no doubt that actively exposing yourself to your peers' thoughts, ideas, and experiences is the most effective way to evolve into a mature and well-rounded professional.

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Circle Retrospective 2023 Special Episode

02:45 Welcome Brian & Hayden

03:45 How the Circle evolved

08:15 The Most helpful Dinner Table Session

11:00 What we will be exploring more

12:15 What's important for service designers

22:15 Small wins

26:45 Ways How the Circle has expanded

30:45 What to look forward in 2024

36:30 What the Circle Can Look like in 5 years

40:45 How we can improve our practice

44:45 Closing

We've all heard it before... An idea is nothing without execution.

As service design professionals, our mission goes beyond doing research and creating future scenarios. We're here to create real, tangible change in the lives of the people we serve.

But here's a frustration I'm sure you'll recognize: many insights we uncover eventually never materialize into solutions. It's been a critique of service design for years.

Why does this happen? Well, one reason is the handover moments within organizations. Many great ideas die in the transition between people, teams, and departments. Plagued by conflicting agendas, different objectives, and unequal resources. And as service designers, we lack the mandate or authority to see our ideas through to the end.

So here's a wild idea: What if there were no handovers?

What if service design were the driving force all the way through?

In this conversation, we sit down with ​Brad Alphonso​, who's successfully championed this approach within his organization. Service design is now a respected voice shaping customer experiences and influencing the business strategy.

We explore with Brad what it takes for service design to play this role within your organization. How can you earn the trust and confidence of those around you, allowing you to take the keys to the car?

We also dive into why we must expand our definition of design, step out of our comfort zones, and overcome imposter syndrome to lead the change we want to see.

An inspiring conversation based on a real-life case study that will surely give you some new ideas on how to turn ideas into impact.

Brad's insights have made me aware again that we need to redefine success as we mature within our organizations. Different stages require different metrics, and failing to adapt can leave us stuck—something to reflect on.

Enjoy the conversation!

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 192

06:00 Who is Brad

07:00 How he got into Service Design

10:30 Owning the journey

13:30 First-hand experience to pain

15:30 Should we eliminate the hand-off?

22:00 How they got people in the room

27:00 Meet the desires of the organization first

31:00 What Difference a Holistic Approach Can Make

33:30 Recalibrate what success is

40:00 The development process on how this could be implemented

41:30 The criteria of great work

45:00 When your work evolves the transformation

47:45 The biggest challenge in the shift

50:00 When you can't see immediate progress

53:15 A practical advice

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://au.linkedin.com/in/brad-alphonso-637914126

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠

https://servicedesignshow.com/circle

In our fast-paced society, we often find ourselves rushing through life. Whether meeting work deadlines or juggling personal commitments, speed and efficiency seem to rule the day.

Our interactions with others have become transactional, focused on accomplishing tasks rather than building meaningful connections. Have we lost the art of genuine communication, leaving us feeling pressured and stressed, constantly chasing happiness? Sometimes, it definitely feels so.

So what if we paused for a moment? What if we took the time to listen to one another without judgment or hidden agendas? Listening not to prove a point but to understand.

Our guest this week, Johnnie Moore, introduces us to the concept of Unhurried Conversations. What started as a simple experiment has grown into a movement.

Johnnie shares the origins of this movement, what it is at its core, and how it can be integrated into our busy lives, even in work settings where busyness often defines success. Unhurried Conversations act as a magical lubricant in our interactions, making everything flow more smoothly.

I won't spoil the surprise, but if you feel lucky, take a guess about what this magic entails before diving into our conversation.

In a world where change takes time, patience is an essential trait for every service design professional. I really do think that embracing an unhurried mindset can be a simple way to strengthen your patience muscle.

Enjoy and keep making a positive impact :)

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 191

05:00 Who is Johnnie Moore

05:30 How he stumbled with service design

06:30 Lightning Round

08:00 Topic for today: Have More Faith and Curiosity

10:30 It's not a secret: Unhurried Movement

13:00 The talking stick process

15:00 The experiment

17:00 Current state of Unhurried Movement

20:30 The result when people engage in the process

26:30 What it requires for a participant

30:00 What might not work - The Risk

33:15 The effects, level of progression when you "Unhurry:

35:00 Value in not doing and only listening and repetition

38:00 Advise when doing Unhurried conversation

43:45 Not having an agenda

46:00 Making human connections

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnnie-moore-2323/
• unhurried.org
• https://www.unhurried.org/book
• The Answer to How Is Yes: Acting on What Matters by Peter Block (Book) - https://a.co/d/dl7L8pJ
• Reach out directly to Johnnie: [email protected]

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle