Service Design Show

Service Design Show

A show where we go beyond the basic service desig…

  • 58 minutes 43 seconds
    Where did all the Service Designers go? / Giulia Di Gregorio / Ep. #247

    If you look at the current job market, you might notice something strange...

    The words "service design" seem to be slowly disappearing from job titles.

    Does that mean our field is shrinking, or worse, becoming obsolete?

    Well, according to our guest, Giulia Di Gregorio, that's definitely not the case.

    If anything, the opposite is true.

    Giulia argues that while the titles might be vanishing, the practice is actually spreading.

    Service design is everywhere now; it's just hiding under different names.

    But this "diversification" creates a new challenge.

    If everyone has a different job title, where do you find your professional peers?

    Where's that safe space where you can get together to commiserate, find inspiration, and learn from each other?

    That's what Giulia and a few folks were thinking as well.

    But instead of just thinking about it they rolled up their sleeves and decided to revive Service Design Drinks Milan.

    This didn't become just another meetup; it became a "pirate version" of a community.

    And it’s been a pretty successful one.

    In this conversation, we explore what it looks like to run a community that's driven by volunteers, has no hierarchy, and is governed by the energy people actually have to give.

    We also talk about building "synergies" with other communities instead of acting like isolated islands.

    And we dig into why the best way to scale might be through small, independent nodes across the world rather than one big centralized network.

    So if you’ve been feeling a bit "homeless" in your service design role lately, this is a great conversation about reclaiming your identity and connecting with your tribe.

    What stuck with me is the idea that when a project starts feeling like "work," you might be heading in the wrong direction and should reconsider your options.

    Something to think about both in our professional context as well as in our passion projects.

    Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

    00:00 Welcome to Episode 247

    07:30 Flat Hierarchies & Freedom

    09:30 Global Nodes vs. Centralized Networks

    13:30 The Toolkit Takeover

    17:45 Managing by Time

    23:15 Pirates vs. The Navy

    27:30 The Cost of Being Brave

    31:45 The Un-conferenced Model

    36:30 Turning Points: From Branding to COVID

    43:00 Learning Effortless Leadership

    48:00 How to Start Your Own Pirate Node

    55:30 Question to ponder on


    --- [ 2. LINKS ] ---


    --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

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    12 February 2026, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 5 minutes
    From The Experience Economy to The Transformation Economy / Joe Pine / Ep. #246

    A few months ago I finally hit a major milestone...

    After years of putting it off, I finally started taking golf lessons.

    Jasper, my coach (or "pro" as they say in the golf world), has been helping me develop a proper swing. But being me, I just can't help but look at Jasper through a service design lens.

    What is he actually selling me? Or better yet: what am I actually buying?

    Right now, I pay by the hour. That buys me Jasper’s time and a bit of grass to practice on.

    But what if I didn’t pay for the service, which is just time well saved, but rather for the outcome?

    What if Jasper promised to take me from someone who barely knows how to hold a club to being a confident, competent golfer?

    Because in the end, that’s truly the identity shift I’m actually looking for.

    Just think about how much that proposition would change the dynamics, not just for me, but for Jasper’s entire business model.

    When that offer is on the table, why would I ever settle for a coach selling me "practice time" (a commodity) when I could invest in the transformation I actually desire?

    This shift toward "transformations" as an economic offering isn't new.

    It was already described in the industry defining book The Experience Economy back in 1999.

    We’ve been lucky enough to have Joe Pine, the book’s co-author, on the Show twice before. Now, he’s back.

    It’s been 27 years since he published the book that influenced so many of us, and he has just published the long-awaited follow-up titled, you guessed it, The Transformation Economy.

    In this episode, we sit down to chat about what this shift means for us as service design professionals and what it means for the future of business.

    I’m fairly certain this is the very first podcast where Joe discusses the new book, so we’ve got a true exclusive on our hands.

    So will this be the next chapter for our field? Listen to the episode to find out!

    As you listen to the conversation, I’d love for you to think about your own projects. Are you designing for "time well spent," or are you ready to guide your customers through a real identity shift?

    Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!

    Be well,

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

    00:00 Welcome to Episode 246

    04:45 Why the book is still relevant

    06:15 Progression of Economic Value

    11:00 Defining economic offerings

    13:00 Birth of the Transformation Economy

    17:30 Experience vs. Transformation

    20:30 Focusing on the "Aspirant"

    22:00 Time Saved vs. Time Well Spent

    25:00 Experience design examples

    27:00 Novelty and social bonding

    31:15 Investment for time

    32:30 Turning experiences into change

    34:30 Service vs. Experience design

    37:30 Moving to transformations

    38:30 The power of intentionality

    40:45 Using reflection to add value

    43:30 Changing your identity

    44:45 Goal: Human flourishing

    47:30 What it means to flourish

    49:30 Satisfaction vs. improvement

    50:45 The drive for better

    51:30 Designing for transformation

    54:00 Transformative learning

    56:30 The Golf Coach story

    01:00:15 The new book release

    01:01:00 Key takeaway from Joe Pine

    01:02:45 Final thoughts


    --- [ 2. LINKS ] ---


    --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

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    3 February 2026, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 7 minutes
    2026 Predictions ~ AI Agents, CX Engineers & The End of "Chat" / Jochem van der Veer / Episode #245

    Imagine a world where you can simply look at your journey model and ask it why... Why, for example, is our customer churn spiking this quarter? How close are we to that reality?

    I invited my good friend ​Jochem van der Veer​, CEO of TheyDo, back onto the show to find out. It’s become a bit of a tradition to start the year with Jochem, looking back at our past predictions and setting the stage for what’s next in the world of Journey Management.

    Not so long ago, "Journey Management" was really just an emerging term. Fast forward to today, and I think it's fair to say that the conversation has shifted entirely. We're seeing organizations big and small adopt this practice as a framework that drives real business decisions.

    In last year's episode, Jochem predicted that by now we’d be able to ask our journeys "Why?" and get instant (and meaningful) answers. In this conversation, we discuss how the technology has arrived and why "Journey Anarchy" is the new hurdle we have to clear.

    Next, we play a round of "Objection Bingo" where we address the most common roadblocks we hear every day that stand in the way of wider adoption of journey management. From "we don't have the data" to the classic "It’s too expensive". And of course, Jochem shares some practical strategies to help you overcome these roadblocks when you encounter them.

    Finally, Jochem makes some spicy predictions for 2026. Like the emergence of a completely new role in the CX space. So, if you want to stay one step ahead and hear where our field is heading, this is the conversation for you.

    I would love to know: how do you feel about the state of journey management heading into 2026? A) Mostly "meh" B) Excited! C) Something else...

    Leave a comment (if you're on Spotify).

    Be well,

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

    00:00 Welcome to Episode 245

    05:30 Revisiting 2025 Predictions

    10:00 The One Question Most Marketers Forget to Ask

    12:45 Role of Human Judgment vs. AI Clues

    14:30 4-Step Journey Framework for 2026

    17:00 Why Journey Mapping is "Dead"

    21:15 #1 Reason Companies Fail at Implementation

    24:45 The "Journey Anarchy" Crisis

    28:00 improving decision making

    31:00 How Siloed Teams Kill Revenue

    38:30:00 Another Objection: "It's Too Expensive"

    42:30 Objection Bingo: Flipping the Script on Stakeholder Pushback

    46:15 Wildcard: AI Agents vs. Simple Chatbowildcard: AI

    48:45 Credit Card/Budget Reality Check

    53:00 Predictions for 2026

    54:15 Shift from Efficiency Cuts to Innovation Growth

    57:00 Why "Operationalizing Empathy" is the New Competitive Edge

    58:00 Other Challenges to Watch for in 2026

    59:30 Near Real-Time Journey Monitoring

    1:03:00 The 10 Million Dollar Problem

    1:05:00 Connect with Jochem


    --- [ 2. LINKS ] ---


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    15 January 2026, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 7 minutes
    The Hidden Cost of the "Perfect" Journey (and how to avoid it) / Kendra Shimmell / Ep. #244

    Sorry, but I have to say it...

    We are optimizing our way to boredom.

    Measure everything, test every variation, and optimize the customer journey until it’s "perfect".

    That seems to be the mantra of modern business today.

    But in this first episode of 2026, our guest ​Kendra Shimmell​ throws a big wrench in this machinery.

    Kendra argues that while things like A/B testing validate what works right now, they often come at a steep cost.

    Because if we rely solely on reacting to quantitative data to make small, incremental improvements, we eventually, you guessed it, optimize our way to mediocrity and boredom.

    We lose the soul in our services.

    Kendra shares a painful example of this phenomenon in action: social media algorithms.

    You click on a cool backpack once, and the system thinks it has you figured out. Suddenly, your entire feed is just backpacks. A lot of backpacks.

    The algorithm is "optimized," sure.

    But it has stripped away all the serendipity, turning a place of discovery into a repetitive, boring experience.

    As Kendra put it, just because you can keep a user clicking doesn't mean you aren't exhausting them.

    So, the question is: Why do organizations default to this?

    Why are we so focused on squeezing out efficiency rather than exploring new avenues?

    When I asked Kendra, her answer was blunt: "Greed, Fear, and Confusion." Ouch.

    The greed to squeeze out the last 1% of revenue.

    The fear that if they try something new, they won't find product-market fit again. And the confusion that comes from ignoring the fact that humans are wildly irrational beings driven by feelings, not spreadsheets.

    This conversation is a wake-up call to stop treating our customers like subjects in a scientific experiment and start treating them as people to co-create with.

    And if your organization isn't ready to hear that? Well, Kendra has some advice on how to be a little "sneaky" to get the work done anyway!

    The conversation ends with a question that pairs perfectly with a long walk, somewhere where you can let a little serendipity back into your day: "When, where, and how is it most important to be human?".

    Happy New Year and keep making a positive impact!

    Be well,

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

    00:00 Welcome to Episode 244

    04:30 Why We Need Co-Creation Over Experimentation

    08:30 The Twitch Lesson

    14:30 Why Excessive Optimization Leads to "Beige"

    16:03 Social Media & the Algorithm

    23:45 Backpack Rabbit Hole

    25:30 3 Forces of Stagnation

    32:30 Funding Analogous Thinking

    35:00 Creating Space for Change

    38:30 The Compliance Pilot Strategy

    44:15 MVW (Minimum Viable Working Model)

    45:45 Permission vs. Action

    48:45 Moments of irrationality: taxes vs buying

    52:45 Doing Things Better vs. Doing Better Things

    56:15 Living Inside the Algorithm

    58:15 Why We Must Learn to be Bored Again

    1:01:45 The Role of the "Human in the Loop" in the Age of AI

    1:04:15 Case Study: Designing for Distance

    1:06:15 Question to ponder


    --- [ 2. LINKS ] ---


    --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

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    1 January 2026, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 1 minute
    Designing for Truth in an Era of AI Hallucinations / Inside Service Design / Episode #08

    We need to talk about the "intern" sitting on your desktop...

    Come on, you know the one.

    Sure, they are fast, very eager to please, and can process data at lightning speeds.

    But they also have a bad habit of hallucinating facts and making things up just to make you happy.

    Of course, I’m talking about AI.

    It is fair to say that we are past the initial "wow" phase of generative AI.

    Now, for us service design professionals, the real question is: How do we actually hire, train, and trust this new digital colleague?

    That is the focus of this episode of our Inside Service Design series.

    We sit down for a chat with two brilliant professionals: Jessica Dugan and Judith Buhmann.

    They share a grounded, hype-free look at how they are integrating AI into their own existing workflows. Not as a replacement for our work, but as a "Junior Associate" who needs some (sometimes a lot) management.

    To make this real, Jess walks us through the framework she uses for building her own custom AI agents. She explains how to define their "persona," scope their tasks, and curate their knowledge base so they can actually be useful (and safe).

    And Judith shares a critical perspective on why we can’t fully trust AI yet. We explore why we need to treat AI as an "unreliable narrator" especially when working with vulnerable groups.

    So if you are feeling a bit somewhat by the pressure to "use AI" but aren't sure how to do it responsibly, this conversation has some key insights you don't want to miss.

    Here's a question: If you had to give your current AI tools a "performance" review, what rating would you give them? A) Employee of the month B) Promising intern (needs supervision) C) Chaos agent (fires random info at me).

    Let me know, I’m really curious where we are all at!

    Be well,

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

    00:00 Welcome to the November Round Up

    04:00 Jess's journey into service desig

    09:45 Judith's challenge

    12:30 Designing for the employee experience and internal systems

    14:00 The "Pros" of in-house service design

    15:30 The necessity of patience and deep knowledge for in-house success

    18:30 Judith topic

    19:00 Jess topic: Building (and trusting) your own AI agent

    23:00 Why we cannot fully trust any AI

    27:00 Scoping the AI agent's role and understanding user need

    29:00 Designing the "Human" side: Setting personality and tone for your agent

    33:45 Accessibility: Is it actually hard to build your own agent?

    35:30 Human-in-the-loop: Regulation and ensuring data accuracy

    40:00 Why transparency matters more than just "trust"

    47:00 Getting organizational buy-in for AI tools

    54:45 Markers of success: How service blueprints live on after the workshop

    56:30 Closing thoughts and Question to Ponder


    --- [ 2. LINKS ] ---


    --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

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    25 December 2025, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 13 minutes
    Fighting the "Enshittification" of Experience / Dan Saffer / Ep. #243

    Sure, design might be going through a tough period...

    But as the saying goes, "never waste a good crisis."

    So this moment of uncertainty, where everyone is wondering if (or rather when) AI will take over their job, might actually be our biggest opportunity to rise up.

    It is a unique chance to reclaim our core focus of designing services that genuinely improve people's lives, rather than just extracting value to maximize shareholder returns.

    Of course to discuss an existential topic like this we had to find someone who's been around the block for some time. And boy did we find someone!

    For this episode we sit down with the legendary Dan Saffer to chat about what we can learn from the last two decades of design evolution.

    We try to wrap our heads around what caused the erosion of strategic design from its heyday, which, frankly, wasn't even that long ago.

    We look into how we somehow got identified with the outputs, like running workshops or creating interfaces in Figma, rather than the outcomes. And more importantly, what we can do to prevent that from happening again, whether that’s with journey management or crafting smart prompts.

    And finally we also tackle the big question of why design isn't having a greater influence on the current wave of AI, and how we can change that.

    So bring your cassette player for this one, because we're going back in time for some nostalgia and a healthy dose of hope.

    Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

    00:00 Welcome to Episode 243

    03:00 Why Design Has Failed the Enterprise

    07:15 Defining a 'Well-Designed Service'

    11:00 4 Stages of Design Maturity

    13:45 The Critical Challenge of Design at Scale

    16:30 Debunking the Myth being Design as a 'Luxury'

    19:30 Is Service Design an Attitude or a Practice?

    20:45 Impact of Cloud & Mobile on Design Challenges

    23:15 Designing for the 'Cloud Age'

    29:00 Service Design vs. Interaction Design

    31:45 Focus on the System, Not Just the Artifact

    35:00 The Challenge of Hiring True System-Level Designers

    37:30 Moving Design from Extractive to Generative

    44:45 Only Way to Win Is to Not Play the Game

    48:15 Driving Organizational Change Through Design Culture

    52:45 Why Designers Burn Out

    56:45 How to Measure the Impact of Generative Design

    1:00:00 Why AI is a People Problem

    1:03:15 What Makes a Great Design Leader?

    1:06:15 The Essential Mindset Shift for Modern Design Leadership

    1:09:15 The Great Opportunity of AI in Service Design

    1:13:45 Final Takeaway

    1:14:15 Question to Ponder


    --- [ 2. LINKS ] ---


    --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

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    18 December 2025, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 1 minute
    How To Stay "Stubbornly Human" in an AI World / Inside Service Design / Ep. #07

    Here is a hot take, empathy is becoming "theater"...

    I mean, it's that feeling you get when you receive a "hyper-personalized" yet clearly automated email saying "We are so deeply sorry to see you go".

    To me, it just feels insincere. Actually, it even feels manipulative.

    Instead of a genuine connection, it’s a performance designed to "manage" me, not help me.

    As every business out there is in a race to automate and integrate AI, the actual human connection is often the first thing to get outsourced.

    And when we try to paste humanity back onto technology, we often end up in a digital uncanny valley.

    So, how do we push back?

    How do we remain "stubbornly human" when the systems around us only care about efficiency?

    That is the battle we explore in the latest episode of our Inside Service Design series.

    In this conversation, I sit down with two service design professionals from very different worlds: ​Jeff​, who works in the highly digital fintech space, and ​Emilie​, an Innovation Partner at a faith-based nonprofit.

    Despite their different contexts, they share some great insights on keeping the "human" in human-centered design.

    Jeff breaks down the concept of Empathy Theater and challenges us to spot when a friendly tone in a digital interface crosses the line into manipulation. And Emilie walks us through a future scenario where VR headsets are the default for education, forcing us to ask: how do we design for belonging when we are physically apart?

    So, if you are tired of seeing the human element get optimized out of existence, this conversation will give you some strong arguments you need to stand your ground.

    Quick question: Have you received an email recently that felt like "Empathy Theater"? If yes, send me a quick reply with "Guilty" (bonus points if you can share the example)!

    I'm trying to get a sense of how widespread this is becoming.

    Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact.

    Be well,

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

    00:00 Welcome to October Round Up

    05:00 Emilie's Service Design Journey

    07:30 Jeff from Interior Design to FinTech

    12:30 Jeff's Biggest In-House Design Challenge

    15:00 Challenges in Non-Profit Design

    18:00 Emilie's True Measure of Success

    20:00 How Jeff Measures Success in Long-Term Projects

    25:00 Emilie's topic: Education in 2038

    29:00 Jeff's topic: Keep Things 'Stubbornly Human'

    33:45 The Circle Reacts to Insincere Digital Tone

    36:45 How Emilie's group responded

    39:00 Emilie's Hopeful Reflection on the Future of Design

    40:00 The Practical Tweak Jeff Made

    43:00 Emilie's #1 Hard-Won Career Lesson

    45:30 Jeff's Hard-Won Lesson in Service Design

    46:30 When Jeff Stopped Focusing on Deliverables

    51:00 Why Beautiful Artifacts Don't Impress Executives

    53:00 How to Stop the Treadmill

    54:30 Emilie's Question to the Audience

    55:30 Jeff Answers the Question He Wants to Ask

    57:30 Emilie Answers Her Own Deep Question

    59:00 Final words of wisdom


    --- [ 2. LINKS ] ---


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    11 December 2025, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 9 minutes
    Designing for the Long Game: Self-Care as Professional Rigor / Rachael Dietkus / Ep. #242

    We often hear the "mantra" to move fast and break things...

    But what happens when the thing that breaks is you?

    For many service design professionals, this is the reality of their calendar: back-to-back meetings, a rush to deliver, and very little space to actually think.

    In many organizations, there is a culture that views this busyness as a badge of honor.

    But our guest in this episode, Rachael Dietkus, has quite a different -and healthier- approach.

    She has a rule written on a post-it note right next to her desk: "No meetings before 10 AM".

    This might sound like a luxury, doesn't it?

    But Rachael, who's a licensed clinical social worker and designer, argues that rules like this are actually a professional necessity.

    Rachael is the founder of Social Workers Who Design, where she is bridging the gap between the deep, ethical frameworks of social work and the often frantic pace of design.

    This is an eye-opening episode where we explore why service design might be missing a "manual" that social workers have had for decades.

    You'll hear about:

    • Why we need to move beyond just empathy to genuine care and compassion.
    • The importance of having a structured "safe space" to process your work (social workers spend at least 1 hour in supervision for every 40 hours of work!).
    • Why setting hard boundaries is actually a sign of competence and professionalism, not weakness.

    So, if you sometimes feel the weight of the work is getting too much and you're looking for ways to create a healthier, more sustainable work environment, this conversation offers practical clues.

    As we are almost wrapping up the year, it's an important reminder that reflection on our work isn't a nice to have, but a healthy habit we should all embrace.

    Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact.

    Be well,

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

    00:00 Welcome to Episode 242

    04:00 Making Care an Integral Part of Practice

    09:00 Recognizing Care (or the Lack Thereof) in Project Pacing

    14:00 Difference Between 'Careless' and 'Care-full' Design

    17:30 How Rachel's Path to Care Began

    26:30 Human Rights and Social Work Foundation

    38:45 What Design Can Learn from Social Work

    46:15 Radical Act of Slowing Down

    52:30 Practical Steps to Build Spaciousness & Combat Workaholism

    57:45 Setting Boundaries

    1:01:15 Boundaries as Professional Resistance

    1:03:45 Takeaway She Hopes You Get

    1:05:15 Piece of Advice

    1:05:45 Question to ponder


    --- [ 2. LINKS ] ---


    --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

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    4 December 2025, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 8 minutes
    How Vertical Storytelling Helps Translate Empathy into Business Value / Journey Management Playbook / Ep. #08

    Okay, we are pretty good storytellers... but are we telling the right story?

    As service design professionals, we nail it when it comes to what I call "Horizontal Storytelling".

    We can walk anyone through the customer journey, step-by-step, building empathy for the user's pain and frustration over time.

    But here is the somewhat inconvenient truth: As you might have experienced, your CEO or CFO often doesn't know what to do with that story. They are looking for something else.

    They need "Vertical Storytelling".

    They need to know how a specific pain point on the ground connects up to the strategic objectives of the business. They need to know the ROI. They need to know if the needle is actually moving.

    In episode 8 of the Journey Management Playbook series, Tingting Lin and I are closing the loop.

    We are moving from doing the work to measuring the impact.

    If you’ve ever struggled to justify prove that your journey management efforts are actually influencing the bottom line, this episode is for you.

    We dive into:

    • How you can translate customer empathy into business language to get buy-in.
    • Why you can't just rely on churn or NPS as your metrics, and how to find early warning signals that prove your work is having an effect now.
    • How to connect your solutions back to the original business challenge to see if you actually solved the problem.
    • And how to start measuring impact today without having to wait for perfect data integrations.

    This episode provides the missing link between "making mapping a journey" and "driving business outcomes."

    What is the one metric you struggle to track the most? Send me a reply or leave a comment on YouTube, we’d love to know where the biggest data hurdles are for you.

    Enjoy and keep making a positive impact!

    Be well,

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. LINKS 🔗 ] ---

    👉 Playbook Slides -

    ✅ Sign up for TheyDo - https://go.servicedesignshow.com/scjwb


    --- [ 2. GUIDE ] ---

    01:00 What's in store episode 08

    03:45 Power of Vertical Storytelling

    05:30 Proving Your Journey Map Worth the Investment

    07:00 Biggest Mistake People Make in Journey Mapping

    11:00 When a Simple Insight Changes Everything

    16:30 'Horizontal' View vs. the 'Vertical'

    23:00 How to Operationalize Your Journey Map

    25:00 Start Small, But Map the Full Customer Story

    26:00 Closing the Loop and Feedback Mechanisms

    30:00 Summary: 3 Pillars of a Successful Journey Strategy

    31:34 Differentiating Horizontal and Vertical Stories

    33:00 Overcoming Internal Resistance to New Mapping

    36:00 Stakeholders as customers

    38:45 Translating Empathy into Actionable Design

    39:45 Mapping an Employee Onboarding Journey

    45:00 Debunking misconceptions

    50:30 Software and Resources We Recommend

    54:45 Second Essential Technique

    58:00 Final Takeaways & Last-Minute Advice

    1:00:00 5 Practical Tips You Can Implement Today


    --- [ 3. FIND THE SHOW ON ] ---

    27 November 2025, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 9 minutes
    The Missing Link Between Service Design and Business Goals / Mark Howell / Ep. #241

    Service design, so what...

    That's a question still many people around us (rightfully) ask.

    And let's be honest, they'll probably keep asking it for the foreseeable future.

    It will take a very long time before our field becomes a household name, which I doubt it ever will.

    Now, it’s easy to get frustrated about this, to roll our eyes every time someone questions the value of our work.

    But that frustration isn't going to get us any closer to creating the impact we know we can.

    A much more productive approach is to prepare for these questions, to have our answers ready before they even get asked.

    This also helps us to better recognize when we end up in situations where, no matter what we say or do, our message about service design just stand a chance of resonating.

    We do everyone a favor by acknowledging this. Sometimes it's just not the right place or the right time.

    But where do we learn which stories to tell, when and to whom, and which stories we should avoid?

    Well, we can take some clues from Mark Howell, our guest this in this episode.

    Mark is a seasoned professional who's led some of the largest in-house service design teams I've heard of. This achievement becomes even more impressive when you consider he did this in industries not exactly known for their human-centered thinking.

    In our conversation, we explore how Mark used tools like a "service design quality assessment" to have the right conversations with stakeholders. We talk about how he learned to identify the red flags that signal it's time to find a different project, and we dig into the key role community plays in building a successful service design practice.

    I'm really excited about this episode because we just don't have many examples of people who have scaled service design teams to these kinds of numbers. And we have even fewer who are willing to share the real learnings from that journey.

    So, if you have the ambition to grow service design, this is a fantastic conversation to get some best practices and hear about the pitfalls to avoid.

    What stuck with me from our chat is recognizing that sometimes you need to take a step back instead of just trying to push forward (and burning out in the process).

    I would love to hear from you: What's a key signal for you? What's the clue that gives away that it's time to stop pushing and find a different battle?

    Enjoy and keep making a positive impact!

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

    00:00 Welcome to Episode 241

    05:00 Positioning Service Designers

    09:00 Cracking the Organizational Nut

    13:30 the 3 disciplines to drive perspective

    20:00 His Take on Journey Mapping

    25:30 Lessons Learned

    29:00 The Red Flags of a Failing Project

    31:45 How to Spot Red Flags

    34:30 The 4 Quality Indicators

    40:00 Defining the Indicators

    46:00 Collecting Design Quality Data

    48:30 The Design Community of Practice

    56:45 Aligning with Product Manager OKRs

    1:02:00 Question to ponder


    --- [ 2. LINKS ] ---


    --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

    Join our private community for in-house service design professionals.

    ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle


    [4. FIND THE SHOW ON]

    20 November 2025, 7:00 am
  • 1 hour 2 minutes
    How to Win In-House: Don't Take Your True Superpowers For Granted / Inside Service Design / Ep. #06

    Have you ever thought about...

    What a therapist, a grandma, and an organ donor teach you about service design?

    I know, this might sound like the start of a strange joke, but it gets to the heart of a big truth about our work.

    We invest a lot of time perfecting our journey maps, blueprints, and personas.

    But as we know, the challenges we work on won't be solved by a deliverable.

    They're solved through invisible "tools" like subtle influence, creating space for others, and building strategic relationships.

    So, where do you find these tools? Well, this episode is a great start.

    This episode is part of our "Inside Service Design" series, where we explore the real, unpolished practice of driving change from within organizations.

    And just like in the previous episodes you get to hear two brilliant in-house professionals, share some of their most powerful, non-traditional strategies. This time we're joined by Irina Damascan and Gina Mendolia.

    Gina walks us through her concept of "Setting the Trap" for engagement, and how she draws inspiration from the roles of therapists, coaches, and even grandmas to master the art of creating space and enabling teams to connect the dots themselves.

    Irina introduces a powerful model for influence she calls the "Organ Donor Chain," a strategic way to build networks of reciprocity by doing "favors" that enable change across the organization, often in unexpected ways.

    I have to say, it was refreshing to hear about effective mental models that go beyond design-as-usual, which aren't just theories but truly help to design better services.

    Want to add some (unconventional) tools that help you drive change to your toolkit? Grab your notebook and join us for this conversation.

    What's the most unconventional place you've found inspiration for your work? Maybe a different profession, a hobby, a movie? Share your inspiration in the comments on YouTube and let's continue the conversation there.

    Keep making a positive impact!

    ~ Marc


    --- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

    00:00 Welcome

    04:30 Who is Ben

    06:00 How Heydn got his role

    07:15 What Heydn is currently doing

    08:15 Ben working at a financial services firm

    10:15 who Ben is reporting to

    11:30 where Autodesk sits

    13:15 what a good looks like for Heydn

    16:30 indicators of success

    17:30 what success looks like for Ben

    23:30 Why Context Determines Your SD Strategy

    27:00 Ben's topic: the first 90 days

    30:45 Heydn's key takeaway

    35:00 Making Your Map Complicated on Purpose

    37:00 Ben's takeaway

    43:00 the last time he has done the first 90 days

    46:45 Heydn reacting

    48:45 Learning things the hard way

    51:00 Ben's hard lessons

    55:00 what keeps him motivated

    57:30 what will Heydn get back there

    1:00:00 Ben to summarize

    1:00:30 Heydn's final words of wisdom


    --- [ 2. LINKS ] ---


    --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

    Join our private community for in-house service design professionals.

    ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle


    [4. FIND THE SHOW ON]

    13 November 2025, 7:00 am
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