Upstream

14 minutes 6 seconds

The Crushing Despair of Class Society

This is a free preview of the episode "The Crushing Despair of Class Society." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber, you'll get access to biweekly bonus episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going.

In this episode of our reading series, Robbie reads a piece of his own titled "Extreme Inequality Is Driving Anxiety and Depression in the US" published by Truthout in 2019. The piece is about the environmental impacts on mental health, focusing specifically on the impacts of economic inequality.

The reading opens with a look back to the dawn of the COVID era, exploring how the pandemic and long COVID have impacted society in a broader sense but also Robbie's personal experience suffering from mental health challenges and the ways that he is coping with that.

We then begin the reading, which explores how economic inequality impacts mental health in a variety of ways. With frequent commentary breaks, Robbie explains how societies with more economic inequality do worse on a very wide range of mental and physical health indicators. We disucss how it's not just those on the lower rungs of the economic ladder who experience worse outcomes, but how even people on the higher rungs in more unequal societies do worse than their counterparts in less unequal societies.

We explore how status anxiety along with racial and other forms of minority discrimination impact people's mental health and discuss the mechanisms through which this occurs. And finally, we explore how the only way to truly reduce economic inequality is by organizing towards a communist society which abolishes class.

Further resources:

Related episodes:

Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

12 October 2026, 3:00 pm

1 hour 40 minutes

Gamified Capitalism and 21st Century Fascism w/ Max Haiven

In this episode we're joined by Max Haivan for a conversation on gamified capitalism and 21st century fascism. Max Haiven is Canada Research Chair in Radical Imagination at Lakehead University and author of many books, including most recently, The Player and the Played: From Gamed Capitalism to 21st-Century Fascism, which is open-access. He is the designer of the board game Billionaires & Guillotines and teaches a popular education course titled Fighting Fascist Feelings.

The conversation begins with a broad overview of Max's thesis connecting games and capitalism—what he calls gamified capitalism—introducing the concept of 21st century capitalism as a sort of cruel and unwinnable game in which we are all trapped. We discuss the financialization of capitalism as the foundation upon which gamification has flourished, describing the emergnce of the "cheated player" navigating a never-ending series of financialized games—from dating apps to prediction markets.

Max explains how fascism on both a micro and macro level emerges out of this material reality through a sort of revenge politics and the creation of the "cheating other" who must be eliminated from society. We go on to elaborate on this and discuss how fascism in the 20th century differs from 21st century fascism as a sort of entrepreneurial form of fascism that places the emphasis on the individual as opposed to the mass.

We situate Trump in Max's analysis of 21st century fascism as a form of revenge against the cheating other under gamified capitalism, discussing QAnon, the TESCREAL philosophies of Silicon Valley, and other fascistic phenomena along the way. We end by exploring what games can teach the left and how learning from games can contribute to our movements for liberation.

We are now on Youtube! You can find us and subscribe to our channel at youtube.com/@upstream_podcast

Further resources:

The Player and the Played: From Gamed Capitalism to 21st Century Fascism, by Max Haiven
Max's work

Related episodes:

Intermission music: "Shit List" by Carsie Blanton

Upstream is entirely listener funded. No ads, no promotions, no grants—just Patreon subscriptions and listener donations. We couldn't keep this project going without your support. Subscribe to our Patreon for bi-weekly bonus episodes, access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, and for Upstream stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. Through your support you'll be helping us keep Upstream sustainable and helping to keep this whole project going—socialist political education podcasts are not easy to fund so thank you in advance for the crucial support. patreon.com/upstreampodcast

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

6 October 2026, 5:04 am

24 minutes

[TEASER] Cuba Ep. 11: Actually Existing Ecology w/ Henry Hakamäki & Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro

This is a free preview of the episode "Cuba Ep. 11: Actually Existing Ecology w/ Henry Hakamäki & Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber, you'll get access to biweekly bonus episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going.

In this episode, Part 2 of a 2-part miniseries, Henry Hakamäki & Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro join us to discuss the ecology of communism as described in the book, Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology by French scholar Guillaume Suing. Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro is Professor at the Department of Geography and Environmental Studies at SUNY New Paltz. Henry Hakamäki is co-host of Guerrilla History and the editor and translator, along with Salvatore, of Iskra Books' Stalin: History and Critique of a Black Legend, by Domenico Losurdo as well as the book we'll be discussing today, Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology, by Guillaume Suing

Our conversation begins with a brief introduction to Guillaume Suing and the book Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology before jumping into a discussion about communist ecology and tackling the question of whether or not the "eco" in eco-socialism is necessary. We discuss the communist response to eco-centricism, which Salvatore argues presents a false dichotomy between humans and nature.

We then move from theory and begin discussing communist ecology in practice as it manifested in Cuba, describing some aspects of Cuba's ecological practices from agroecology to reforestation. We describe what it was about Cuba's socialist system which led it to value ecological sustainability. We end by discussing the "degrowth" movement, how Cuba represents a true example of degrowth in action, and explore how the climate movement and the western left more broadly can and should truly embrace that idea that communism is the highest stage of ecology.

We have unlocked Part 1 of this conversation so it is now available as a public episode. Part 2 will remain as a Patreon-only episode.

Further resources:

Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology, by Guillaume Suing
Ecosocialism: An Introduction, by Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro
Iskra Books
Guerrilla History
Book Talk: Slow Down with Kohei Saito (The People's Forum)

Related episodes:

Cover art: Ben Stahnke / Iskra Books

Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Youtube, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

29 September 2026, 10:51 pm

1 hour 30 minutes

[UNLOCKED] Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology w/ Henry Hakamäki & Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro

This is an unlocked version of our Patreon episode "Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology w/ Henry Hakamäki & Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro."

In this episode, Part 1 of a 2-part miniseries, Henry Hakamäki & Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro join us to discuss the ecology of communism as described in the book, Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology by French scholar Guillaume Suing. Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro is Professor at the Department of Geography and Environmental Studies at SUNY New Paltz. Henry Hakamäki is co-host of Guerrilla History and the editor and translator, along with Salvatore, of Iskra Books' Stalin: History and Critique of a Black Legend, by Domenico Losurdo as well as the book we'll be discussing today, Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology, by Guillaume Suing

Our conversation begins by outlining how capitalism as an ideology and as a world-system harms ecology by unpacking the logic behind the profit motive and infinite growth characteristic capitalism system. Henry and Salvatore then discuss some of the most prominent preconceptions and misconceptions regarding communism as an inherently "productivist" system, using the Soviet Union as their primary example (we will discuss the example of Cuba in Pt. 2 of this miniseries which will be released as part of our Cuba series). We end the discussion on the USSR by looking at three different areas where the USSR committed to environmental protection—including the famous zapovedniki.

The conversation begins to wrap up with a brief exploration of Trofim Lysenko, the Soviet agronomist around whom much controversy still swirls, and whose story leads us unto a discussion of socialist science and dialectical science. We end by introducing Cuba into the conversation, but just very briefly, as a much deeper exploration of Cuba as a model of communist ecological practice will be the topic of Part 2 of this miniseries.

Part 2 will be released as part of our Cuba series on 9/28/2026.

Further resources:

Related episodes:

Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Youtube, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

28 September 2026, 8:11 pm

1 hour 25 minutes

The Cultural Cold War: Folk Music and Communism w/ Carsie Blanton

In this episode, we're joined by Carsie Blanton for a conversation on communist folk music and the role of politics in art. Carsie Blanton is a songwriter, touring musician, and organizer with Artists Against Apartheid and People's Songs—an organization of musicians dedicated to adapting, distributing, and performing songs for liberation.

The conversation begins with Carsie giving us a sense of her experience as a Jewish, anti-Zionist musician after Oct 7th and how the repressive atmosphere and her experience on the Global Sumud Flotilla shaped the way she thinks about art and political discourse. She tells us how this experience led her to (re)launch an organization from the 1940s named People's Songs dedicated to adapting, distributing, and performing songs for liberation.

We discuss the ways that communist musicians organized historically and what the response from the FBI and repressive apparatus was to this organizing. We talk about the Congress for Cultural Freedom, for example, and other soft power approaches by the CIA to promote a noncommunist, compatible left in the sphere of art, music, and culture more broadly.

We discuss the repression that musicians faced, from Paul Robeson to Malvina Reynolds, and how the explicitly left, communist politics presentin folk music shifted and dissipated during neolberalism. We end by discussing the challenges facing musicians today in the context of the new Red Scare, how Carsie has navigated this, and how musicians and artists can get involved in organizing.

We are now on Youtube! You can find us and subscribe to our channel at youtube.com/@upstream_podcast

Further resources:

Carsie Blanton's webiste
Support Carsie on Patreon!
People's Songs
Artists Against Apartheid
Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)
Who Paid the Piper? The CIA and the Cultural Cold War, by Francis Stonor Saunders
The Folk Singers and the Bureau The FBI, the Folk Artists and the Suppression of the Communist Party, USA-1939-1956, by Aaron Leonard
Who Paid the Pipers of Western Marxism, Gabriel Rockhill (Monthly Review Press)
All Power Books
Radical artists to explore: Bambu, Robeson Singers, the Neighborhood Kids, Billy Bragg, The Burning Hell, Devon Sproule, Linqua Franqa, Tuneyards, Nathan Evans Fox
Della's Playlist

Related episodes:

Intermission music: "FBI" performed live by Carsie Blanton

Upstream is entirely listener funded. No ads, no promotions, no grants—just Patreon subscriptions and listener donations. We couldn't keep this project going without your support. Subscribe to our Patreon for bi-weekly bonus episodes, access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, and for Upstream stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. Through your support you'll be helping us keep Upstream sustainable and helping to keep this whole project going—socialist political education podcasts are not easy to fund so thank you in advance for the crucial support. patreon.com/upstreampodcast

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

22 September 2026, 3:00 am

19 minutes 12 seconds

[TEASER] China Ep. 11: Tibet w/ Ken Hammond

This is a free preview of the episode "China Ep. 11: Tibet w/ Ken Hammond." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber, you'll get access to biweekly bonus episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going.

In this conversation, episode 11 in our ongoing series on China, we're joined by Ken Hammond to talk about Tibet. Ken Hammond is Professor of History at New Mexico State University, an organizer with the Party for Socialism and Liberation, or PSL, and the author of several books, including China's Revolution and the Quest for a Socialist Future and China and the World.

Our conversation begins by situating Tibet geographically and providing a deeper history of Tibet stretching back to the 7th century and through to the end of the Qing dynasty in 1912. We then look at Tibet 1912, describing the state as a sort of feudal theocracy dominated by monastic rule and with a life expectancy in the 30s. We then explore the period during and after the 1949 communist revolution, discussing the long and winding process of how socialism was gradually introduced in Tibet—a story which includes an uprising, land reform, CIA sabotage plots originating in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, and more.

We talk about the transformations in land, education, and housing which accompanied socialist transformation in Tibet once monastic rule was ended in the late 1950s and how these transformations resulted in literacy rates rising, infant mortality dropping, and life expectancy more than doubling.

We then discuss the "Free Tibet" movement and some of the ways that the State Department, CIA, and other elements of the US government attempted to manufacture a narrative around "cultural genocide" in Tibet, including the Dalai Lama's connection to the CIA. We end by exploring China's ethnic communities in relation to the PRC's new ethnic unity law, the boureois media's attempts to attack China in their coverage of the recent glacial collapse and mudslide in Nepal and Tibet, and by providing an overview of just how much the PRC has supported Tibetan development in the past 75 years.

Further resources:

Related episodes:

Our ongoing series on China

Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

15 September 2026, 3:00 am

1 hour 53 minutes

Venezuela Ep. 7: On Ascending a High Mountain w/ Cira Pascual Marquina and Chris Gilbert

In this conversation, episode 7 in our ongoing series on Venezuela, we're joined by Cira Pascual Marquina and Chris Gilbert for an on-the-ground assessment of how Venezuela is navigating the latest phase of US imperialism. Chris Gilbert is a professor at Venezuela's Bolivarian University and a writer based in Caracas. He's the author of Commune or Nothing! Venezuela's Communal Movement and its Socialist Project. Cira Pascual Marquina is a researcher and popular educator at El Panal commune in Venezuela. She's the author, along with Chris, of The Present as Struggle: Voices from the Bolivarian Revolution and co-host, also along with Chris, of the Marxist educational project Escuela de Cuadros.

The conversation opens by discussing the new oil agreement imposed on Venezuela by the US regime and examining how it compares to other oil agreements in Latin America, how it compares to past agreements under Hugo Chávez and Nicolás Maduro, and what the most problematic components of it are. We dicuss some of the other blows that Venezuela has experienced since January 3rd, including the shifts in Venezuela's relationship to US-aligned states such as Israel.

We then bring back the lens to discuss the larger picture in terms of the impacts of the US regime's interference in Venezuela and the Bolivarian revolution. We look at how the communes have responded to this interference, contextualizing the concessions within the broader assaults on Venezuelan sovereignty over the past several years. We also discuss the various allegations and rumors surrounding Delcy Rodriguez and her loyatly to Chavismo and why these narratives are harmful to the revolution.

We are now on Youtube! You can find us and subscribe to our channel at youtube.com/@upstream_podcast

Further resources:

Commune or Nothing! Venezuela's Communal Movement and its Socialist Project
The Present as Struggle: Voices from the Bolivarian Revolution
A Great Leap into Reality, by Chris Gilbert and Cira Pascual Marquina
Imperialism-Induced Fault Lines, by Chris Gilbert and Cira Pascual Marquina
Against Amnesia, by Chris Gilbert and Cira Pascual Marquina
Communal Responses in the Aftermath of the Earthquake, by Cira Pascual Marquina and Chris Gilbert
The Hour of the Furnaces, by Cira Pascual Marquina
Defending Venezuela, by Chris Gilbert
Hyper-Imperialism: A Dangerous Decadent New Stage
On Ascending a High Mountain

Related episodes:

Intermission music: "Don Samuel" by Ali Primera

Although the episodes in our series build on each other in certain ways, all of our series are designed so that each episode can be listened to as a standalone.

Upstream is entirely listener funded. No ads, no promotions, no grants—just Patreon subscriptions and listener donations. We couldn't keep this project going without your support. Subscribe to our Patreon for bi-weekly bonus episodes, access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, and for Upstream stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. Through your support you'll be helping us keep Upstream sustainable and helping to keep this whole project going—socialist political education podcasts are not easy to fund so thank you in advance for the crucial support. patreon.com/upstreampodcast

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

8 September 2026, 3:00 am

25 minutes 38 seconds

[TEASER] Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology w/ Henry Hakamäki & Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro

This is a free preview of the episode "Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology w/ Henry Hakamäki & Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber, you'll get access to biweekly bonus episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going.

In this episode, Part 1 of a 2-part miniseries, Henry Hakamäki & Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro join us to discuss the ecology of communism as described in the book, Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology by French scholar Guillaume Suing. Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro is Professor at the Department of Geography and Environmental Studies at SUNY New Paltz. Henry Hakamäki is co-host of Guerrilla History and the editor and translator, along with Salvatore, of Iskra Books' Stalin: History and Critique of a Black Legend, by Domenico Losurdo as well as the book we'll be discussing today, Communism, the Highest Stage of Ecology, by Guillaume Suing

Our conversation begins by outlining how capitalism as an ideology and as a world-system harms ecology by unpacking the logic behind the profit motive and infinite growth characteristic capitalism system. Henry and Salvatore then discuss some of the most prominent preconceptions and misconceptions regarding communism as an inherently "productivist" system, using the Soviet Union as their primary example (we will discuss the example of Cuba in Pt. 2 of this miniseries which will be released as part of our Cuba series). We end the discussion on the USSR by looking at three different areas where the USSR committed to environmental protection—including the famous zapovedniki.

The conversation begins to wrap up with a brief exploration of Trofim Lysenko, the Soviet agronomist around whom much controversy still swirls, and whose story leads us unto a discussion of socialist science and dialectical science. We end by introducing Cuba into the conversation, but just very briefly, as a much deeper exploration of Cuba as a model of communist ecological practice will be the topic of Part 2 of this miniseries.

Listen to Part 2 of this miniseries, "Cuba Ep. 11: Actually Existing Ecology w/ Henry Hakamäki & Salvatore Engels-Di Mauro."

Further resources:

Related episodes:

Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Youtube, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

1 September 2026, 3:00 am

1 hour 14 minutes

Cuba Ep. 10: Cuba after Castro w/ Abby Martin

In this episode we're joined by Abby Martin for a conversation on her film, "Cuba after Castro: The Island in the Crosshairs." Abby Martin is a journalist, activist, founder of "The Empire Files," and director of the films "Gaza Fights for Freedom," "Earth's Greatest Enemy," which was the topic of our first episode with Abby, which was actually our first live show ever, and the film we'll be discussing today, which she co-directed with Matt Belen, "Cuba after Castro: The Island in the Crosshairs" which features the first and only interview conducted by an American journalist with Cuban President Miguel Díaz-Canel.

The conversation opens with Abby explaining her connection to Cuba and why she chose to interview Cuba's President Miguel Díaz-Canel for this film. We explore President Miguel Díaz-Canel's story and talk about the series of crises that Cuba is facing as a result of U.S. aggression—a kind of slow genocide.

We then explore parts of Abby's interview with President Díaz-Canel, beginning by situating criticisms of Cuba within the context of U.S. terror, sabotage, and invasion attempts and making sense of why Cuba's system has had to remain partially closed and on guard. We acknowledge the advances that Cuba has been able to make, despite this aggression, in terms of its democratic acheivements, its ability to navigate COVID, its robust healthcare infrastructure, etc.

We discuss the recent announcement of economic reforms in Cuba, discuss the concern about capitalist restoration, and explore why Abby believes that Cuba will make it through this latest assault by the Trump regime. We end by exploring the world that can be if we are brave and committed enough to fight for it.

We are now on Youtube! You can find us and subscribe to our channel at youtube.com/@upstream_podcast

Further resources:

Related episodes:

Intermission music: "to each their dot" by Haley Heynderickx and Max Garcia Conover

Although the episodes in our series build on each other in certain ways, all of our series are designed so that each episode can be listened to as a standalone.

Upstream is entirely listener funded. No ads, no promotions, no grants—just Patreon subscriptions and listener donations. We couldn't keep this project going without your support. Subscribe to our Patreon for bi-weekly bonus episodes, access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, and for Upstream stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. Through your support you'll be helping us keep Upstream sustainable and helping to keep this whole project going—socialist political education podcasts are not easy to fund so thank you in advance for the crucial support. patreon.com/upstreampodcast

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

25 August 2026, 3:00 am

28 minutes 49 seconds

[TEASER] China Ep. 10: The Dialectics of Chinese Labor w/ Immanuel Ness

This is a free preview of the episode "China Ep. 10: The Dialectics of Chinese Labor w/ Immanuel Ness" You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber, you'll get access to biweekly bonus episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going.

In this episode, Immanuel Ness joins us to discuss trade unions in China and the landscape of Chinese labor more broadly. Immanuel Ness is Professor of Political Science at the City University of New York and Visiting Professor of Sociology at the University of Johannesburg. He's the author of Migration as Economic Imperialism: How International Labour Mobility Undermines Economic Development in Poor Countries (which we had him on to discuss last year) and most recently, Dialectics of Chinese Labor: Trade Unions under Market Socialism, which we'll be discussing today.

Our conversation begins with an introduction to Immanuel's new book and why he chose to write a book on Chinese labor. Before turning our focus to China, we first outline many of the ways in which unions in the United States and the global South have failed—highlighting extremely low union density and a number of other perpetual challenges that have not been overcome by the Western trade union model.

We then introduce the All-China Federation of Trade Unions (ACFTU) as a stark contrast to the trade union model under bourgeois democracies. We explore how the union functions holistically from the top down and the bottom up and its relationship to the Communist Party of China (CPC). From Shanghai to Guangzhou, from glass-workers to logistics workers to app drivers, Immanuel provides examples from his research on the various benefits that the ACFTU has provided workers in China, giving us an overall sense of its successes and its challenges.

We then discuss the overall labor landscape in China, particularly in the context of the migration of hundreds of millions of people from rural China to urban centers, before launching into a more organic, back-and-forth discussion around some of the most common myths surrounding China's labor landscape.

Further resources:

Dialectics of Chinese Labor: Trade Unions under Market Socialism, Immanuel Ness

Related episodes:

Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

18 August 2026, 3:00 am

1 hour 14 minutes

Cuba Ep 9: Conjuring up the Red Menace w/ Charisse Burden-Stelly

In this episode we're joined by Charisse Burden-Stelly for a conversation on Cuba and the long history of US red scares through the lens of the US Department of State's recent report on Cuba: "Cuba: The Capital of 21st Century Communism." Charisse Burden-Stelly is an associate professor of African American studies at Wayne State University, a member of the Black Alliance for Peace, Movement Builders, and the Anti-Imperialist Scholars Collective. She's the author of Black Scare/Red Scare: Theorizing Capitalist Racism in the United States.

The conversation opens with an outline of the US State Department report as well as the related "National Security Presidential Memorandum 7: Countering Domestic Terrorism and Organized Political Violence"—more commonly referred to as NSPM-7. We go through the report and examine some of its contents and some of the claims it makes and then explore what the purpose of this report is, asking: why Cuba, and why now?

Dr. CBS then introduces her thesis in Black Scare / Red Scare, looking at how anti-Blackness and anticommunism are combined by the repressive state apparatus to conjure up a red/Black menace, tying that thesis directly to the State Department report. We explore the actual history of cultural exchange between Black radicals and activists in the U.S. and Cuba, going on to highlight the deep hypocricy within the report in terms of the U.S.'s attemps to sabotoage and terrorize Cuba since 1959.

We then zoom out and explore Dr. CBS's argument in Black Scare / Red Scare that anticommunism cannot be viewed as a limited phenomenon that pops up every so often, but rather, that it must be understood as a mode of governance in the United States that is ongoing and pervasive. We close looking at what this current red scare means for the left and what solidarity within the left and by the left for the victims of capitalism and imperialism can look like.

Further resources:

Reading "Cuba: The Capital of 21st Century Communism" through Black Scare/Red Scare, Part I, Charisse Burden-Stelly
Black Scare / Red Scare, Charisse Burden-Stelly

Related episodes:

Intermission music: "2001 Blowback" by John Davis

Although the episodes in our series build on each other in certain ways, all of our series are designed so that each episode can be listened to as a standalone.

Upstream is entirely listener funded. No ads, no promotions, no grants—just Patreon subscriptions and listener donations. We couldn't keep this project going without your support. Subscribe to our Patreon for bi-weekly bonus episodes, access to our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, and for Upstream stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. Through your support you'll be helping us keep Upstream sustainable and helping to keep this whole project going—socialist political education podcasts are not easy to fund so thank you in advance for the crucial support. patreon.com/upstreampodcast

For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Instagram and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

11 August 2026, 3:00 am