There’s a lot of uncertainty when it comes to artificial intelligence. Technologists love to talk about all the good these tools can do in the world, all the problems they might solve. Yet, many of those same technologists are also warning us about all the ways AI might upend society, how it might even destroy humanity.

Julia Longoria, Vox host and editorial director, spent a year trying to understand that dichotomy. The result is a four-part podcast series — called Good Robot — that explores the ideologies of the people funding, building, and driving the conversation about AI.

Today Julia speaks with Sean about how the hopes and fears of these individuals are influencing the technology that will change all of our lives.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Vox Host and Editorial Director Julia Longoria

Good Robot is available in the Vox Unexplainable feed.

Episode 1

Episode 2

Episode 3

Episode 4

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Why do we keep comparing AI to humans?

Jaron Lanier — virtual reality pioneer, digital philosopher, and the author of several best-selling books on technology — thinks that we should stop. In his view, technology is only valuable if it has beneficiaries. So instead of asking "What can AI do?," we should be asking, "What can AI do for us?"

In today’s episode, Jaron and Sean discuss a humanist approach to AI and how changing our understanding of AI tools could change how we use, develop, and improve them.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Jaron Lanier, computer scientist, artist, and writer.

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American government has a speed issue. Both parties are slow to solve problems. Slow to build new things. Slow to make any change at all.

Until now. The Trump administration is pushing through sweeping changes as fast as possible, completely changing the dynamic. And the Democrats? They’ve been slow to respond. Slow to mount a defense. Slow to change tactics. Still.

Ezra Klein — writer, co-founder of Vox, and host of The Ezra Klein Show for the New York Times — would like to offer a course correction.

In a new book, Abundance, Klein and co-author Derek Thompson, argue that the way to make a better, brighter future, is to build and invent the things we need. To do that, liberals need to push past hyper-coalitional and bureaucratic ways of getting things done.

In this episode, Ezra speaks with Sean about the policy decisions that have rendered government inert and how we can make it easier to build the things we want and need.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Ezra Klein, co-author of Abundance and host of The Ezra Klein Show

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Humans hate uncertainty. It makes us feel unsafe and uneasy. We often organize our lives to avoid it. When it's foisted upon us, we don’t always know how to act.

But writer and journalist Maggie Jackson argues that uncertainty can actually be good for us, and that we’re doing ourselves a disservice by avoiding it.

She tells Sean that embracing uncertainty can spark creativity, improve problem solving skills, and help us lead better, more hopeful lives.

This episode originally aired in January 2024.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Maggie Jackson, author of Uncertain: The Wisdom and Wonder of Being Unsure

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How often do you find silence? And do you know what to do with it when you do?

Today’s guest is essayist and travel writer Pico Iyer. His latest book is Aflame: Learning From Silence, which recounts his experiences living at a Catholic monastery in California after losing his home in a fire.

He speaks with Sean about the restorative power of silence, and how being quiet can prepare us for a busy and overstimulated world.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Pico Iyer, writer and author of Aflame: Learning From Silence

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If you could change anything about your personality, anything at all, what would it be?

And why would you want to change it?Writer Olga Khazan spent a year trying to answer those questions, and documented the experience in her new book Me, But Better: The Science and Promise of Personality Change.

In this episode Sean speaks with Olga about the science of personality change, the work it takes to change yourself, and what makes up a personality, anyway.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Olga Khazan, author of Me, But Better: The Science and Promise of Personality Change.

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Are you ever happier not knowing something?

As Aristotle famously claimed, “All human beings want to know.” But denial and avoidance are also human impulses. Sometimes they’re even more powerful than our curiosity.

In this episode Sean speaks with professor Mark Lilla about when we’re better off searching for knowledge and when we’re better off living in the dark. Lilla’s new book is called Ignorance and Bliss: On Wanting Not to Know.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Mark Lilla, professor of humanities at Columbia University and author of Ignorance and Bliss: On Wanting Not to Know.

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What do you think of America’s institutions?

Alana Newhouse, founder and editor-in-chief of Tablet Magazine, says that may be the most important political question in America.

In an essay published more than two years ago, Newhouse argued that there is a new political divide, one in which your place — and the place of your allies and adversaries — is determined by whether you believe that America’s institutions should be fixed or destroyed. Her argument feels eerily prescient in light of the Trump administration’s recent efforts to dismantle government programs.

In this episode, which first aired in February of 2023, Alana and Sean debate what that divide means for America’s present and future, and whether it supersedes labels like "left" or "right" and "Democrat" or "Republican."

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Alana Newhouse (@alananewhouse) editor-in-chief, Tablet and author of "Brokenism."

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Americans are spending an historic amount of time alone, a phenomenon that is often referred to as an "epidemic of loneliness."

But are we actually lonely? Or do we prefer being by ourselves? And if we do, what does that mean for us and our society?

Today’s guest is journalist Derek Thompson, who, in a recent essay for the Atlantic, challenges the conventional wisdom around loneliness. He argues that Americans prefer solitude, and that preference presents a wholly different kind of challenge for the country.

Derek and Sean discuss the far-reaching effects of America’s antisocial behavior, including what it means for our society, our politics, and our future.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)

Guest: Derek Thompson, staff writer, The Atlantic

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Where is your attention right now? Where was it a minute ago? A second ago? Where will it be a minute from now?

One of the primary features of this age — the age of the internet and smartphones and algorithmic feeds — is that our attention is everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

This is no accident. Our devices and apps are engineered to constantly alert us to things that are important and to things that are not. That’s because holding our attention is valuable. The time we spend reading, watching, and listening to content on our digital devices has been commodified, and that commodity is fueling the economy of the digital age.

Today’s guest is Chris Hayes, the host of All In with Chris Hayes on MSNBC and author of The Sirens' Call: How Attention Became the World’s Most Endangered Resource. Chris speaks with Sean about how the attention industry is changing our economy, our society, and ourselves.

Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling).

Guest: Chris Hayes, host of All In with Chris Hayes on MSNBC and author of The Sirens' Call: How Attention Became the World’s Most Endangered Resource.

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What does it take to be happy? Professor of psychology Laurie Santos just might have the answer.

This week The Gray Area takes a break from its regular programming to bring you an episode of another podcast that we love.

In this episode of Stay Tuned With Preet, host Preet Bharara interviews Laurie Santos, a psychology professor at Yale University, about what we all can do to be happier. The two discuss how to maximize your happiness, how to bring meaning to your career, self-care vs. caring for others, and the barriers to happiness that parents face.

Host: Preet Bharara, host of Stay Tuned With Preet

Guest: Laurie Santos, professor of psychology at Yale University, and host of The Happiness Lab

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