In this Episode Tom Spellman shares more than five decades of experience growing, propagating, and managing fruit trees, with a focus on what he calls urban fruit tree culture. He explains why backyard growers should prioritize varieties they enjoy, choose trees and rootstocks suited to their climate, manage tree size, and use successive ripening to extend harvests. Tom also discusses protecting fruit trees from heat, sunburn, wind, and sudden weather events through whitewashing, shade, pre-irrigation, and mulching. Throughout the conversation, he emphasizes a simple goal for backyard growers: get a little bit of fruit all the time rather than an overwhelming amount all at once.

Our Guest: Tom Spellman has been involved in the nursery business since 1973. At that time, he was a freshman in high school and rode his skateboard to work. Since then he has worked for several different nurseries including La Verne Nursery where he was general manager for 20 years. And Dave Wilson Nursery where he was the southwestern sales Manager for over 20 years. Since retiring he is an Urban Fruit Tree and orchard consultant. Most of all he is the person that knows more about fruit trees than anyone else I know!

Key Topics & Entities

• Urban fruit tree culture
• Fruit tree variety selection
• Rootstocks and climate adaptability
• Tree size management
• Successive ripening
• Bare root fruit trees
• Desert fruit tree growing
• Sunburn and sunscald protection
• Wind stress and windbreaks
• Pre-irrigation before extreme heat
• Mulching and soil temperature
• Companion planting
• Citrus in desert climates
• Container-grown citrus

Key Questions Answered

What is urban fruit tree culture?

Urban fruit tree culture is growing fruit trees under limited backyard conditions, where space is restricted and the goal is to make the most productive use of that space. Tom recommends growing varieties you actually like and will use while considering climate, geography, and soil type.

Why is tree size management so important for backyard growers?

Backyard growers generally don't need hundreds of pounds of one type of fruit at once. Keeping trees compact makes pruning, thinning, harvesting, and other maintenance easier while allowing multiple varieties to be grown in the same space.

How can successive ripening extend a backyard harvest?

By planting varieties that ripen at different times, gardeners can harvest the same type of fruit over a much longer period. Instead of getting one large crop for two weeks, several varieties can provide fruit for a month and a half or longer.

How should gardeners choose a fruit tree rootstock?

The rootstock needs to be adapted to the gardener's climate and soil as well as the variety itself. Tom explains that desert growers need rootstocks capable of handling heat, sandy soil, low-desert conditions, and alkalinity.

Why are bare root trees pruned before planting?

When bare root trees are dug, their roots are pruned. The top should be pruned back to balance the reduced root system so the tree can establish new growth successfully. Tom's experiments show that heavily pruned bare root trees can develop significantly more vigor and new scaffold growth than unpruned trees.

How can fruit trees be protected from extreme desert heat?

Tom recommends protecting exposed bark from sunburn with a breathable whitewash, using limited temporary shade during a tree's first summer, and thoroughly pre-irrigating before a predicted extreme heat event.

How does mulch help fruit trees in hot climates?

A four- to six-inch layer of mulch can keep soil temperatures significantly cooler, improve water retention, increase biological activity, and reduce weed seed germination. Tom also recommends maintaining a broad mulched basin around fruit trees.

What is the advantage of companion planting around young fruit trees?

The space around young trees is already being irrigated and maintained, so annual or temporary companion crops can make productive use of that space while the trees are becoming established. Crops such as cowpeas and sweet potatoes can also help reduce ground temperatures.

Why is citrus especially valuable for desert gardeners?

Citrus offers a wide range of varieties with different harvest periods. By selecting varieties with different seasons, gardeners can potentially harvest citrus for many months of the year.

Can people grow citrus in climates where it cannot survive outdoors year-round?

Yes. Tom describes container culture as an option for people with sunrooms or greenhouses. Trees can be moved outdoors after the danger of frost and brought back inside when cold weather returns.

Why is container culture difficult in the desert?

Extreme heat and sun can create severe stress for container-grown trees. Tom explains that some desert wholesale growers use a "pot in pot" system, placing containers into the ground to keep the root zone cooler.

What is the main difference between commercial and backyard fruit growing?

Commercial growers generally want a large quantity of one variety to ripen at the same time for efficient harvest and marketing. Backyard growers usually benefit more from the opposite approach: multiple varieties that provide a smaller amount of fruit over a longer period.

Episode Highlights

• Tom began working in a nursery at age 13, riding his skateboard about a mile and a half to work.
• He spent 20 years working with mentor Dieter Lotter at La Verne Nursery and describes that experience as an education that couldn't be bought in school.
• Urban fruit tree culture starts with growing what you like, what you will use, and what is adaptable to your climate and soil.
• Keeping fruit trees compact allows backyard growers to manage, harvest, and prune them from the ground while making better use of limited space.
• Successive ripening allows multiple varieties to share the footprint of one large tree while extending the harvest season.
• Pre-irrigating before an extreme heat event can make the difference between severe tree damage and a healthy orchard.
• A good layer of mulch can cool the soil, conserve water, improve biological activity, and reduce weeds.
• Tom's central philosophy for backyard growers is simple: "a little bit of fruit all the time."

For more information on Greg's Urban Farm Fruit Tree program in Phoenix visit FruitTrees.org

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/1005 for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this Episode Craig LeHoullier shares his lifelong journey from childhood gardening memories to becoming a renowned heirloom tomato grower, seed saver, and plant breeder. He explains the differences between heirloom, open-pollinated, and hybrid tomatoes and why preserving tomato genetics matters for future gardeners. Craig discusses the Dwarf Tomato Breeding Project, the story behind Cherokee Purple, growing tomatoes in containers and straw bales, and the importance of learning directly from your plants. He encourages gardeners to get their hands dirty, experiment, save seeds, and enjoy gardening as a lifelong journey.

Our Guest: Craig is a North Carolina-based gardener, author, and plant breeder known for his deep expertise in heirloom tomatoes. With a PhD in chemistry from Dartmouth and a 25-year career in pharmaceuticals, he later shifted full-time into gardening and seed saving. Craig is a longtime advisor to Seed Savers Exchange, and is credited with helping popularize varieties like Cherokee Purple tomatoes. He co-leads the Dwarf Tomato Breeding Project and authored Epic Tomatoes, a widely respected guide for home growers.

Key Topics & Entities

• Craig LeHoullier and his 40-year gardening journey
• Heirloom, hybrid, and open-pollinated tomatoes
• Seed Savers Exchange
• Tomato seed saving and preservation
• The Dwarf Tomato Breeding Project
• Cherokee Purple tomato
• Tomato breeding and genetics
• Epic Tomatoes
• Straw bale gardening
• Container tomato growing
• Victory Seed Company
• Gardening misinformation and experimentation
• Food systems and food deserts
• Gardening as community building

Key Questions Answered

What makes a tomato an heirloom?

Craig defines an heirloom as a genetically stable variety that can be passed down through saved seed, with age and a meaningful history or story associated with it.

What is the difference between heirloom and open-pollinated tomatoes?

All heirlooms are open-pollinated, but not every open-pollinated tomato is an heirloom. Craig uses 1949, when Burpee's Big Boy was introduced, as a useful guidepost for distinguishing older heirlooms from newer open-pollinated varieties.

Why are hybrid tomatoes valuable?

Hybrids can combine desirable traits such as disease resistance, heat tolerance, growth habits, and productivity. Craig emphasizes that there are excellent hybrids, heirlooms, and open-pollinated varieties.

How did the Dwarf Tomato Breeding Project begin?

Craig and Patrina began crossing large, flavorful heirlooms with dwarf tomato varieties to create tomatoes that could be grown in smaller spaces while retaining excellent flavor and interesting characteristics.

Why is Cherokee Purple important to Craig?

Craig received seeds in 1990 from J.D. Green, who told him they came through a Cherokee family history in Tennessee. Craig grew the tomato, named it Cherokee Purple, and helped distribute it so the variety and its story could continue.

What makes a tomato variety worth preserving?

Beyond flavor and popularity, a variety may contain genetic traits that could become important for future challenges such as heat, drought, water scarcity, or emerging diseases.

What is one of the biggest mistakes gardeners make with tomatoes?

Craig says gardeners need to pay attention to their plants. Daily observation can reveal early signs of disease, nutritional problems, water stress, and other issues before they become serious.

What is the key to successful straw bale gardening?

A straw bale is conditioned with nitrogen, water, and fertilizer for roughly two weeks before planting. The bale heats up as it decomposes and provides a productive growing medium that eventually becomes useful organic matter.

What tomatoes work well in small spaces?

Craig recommends Sun Gold cherry tomatoes, dwarf tomatoes, and micro-dwarf varieties for containers and limited growing spaces. Cherry tomatoes can also perform well with less sunlight than many larger varieties.

What is Craig's advice for beginning tomato growers?

Get your hands dirty, start with good seedlings or learn to start your own seeds, and let the plants teach you. Gardening is an education and a journey rather than a rigid set of instructions.

Episode Highlights

• Craig traces his love of gardening to childhood memories of working with his father and grandfather and describes how joining Seed Savers Exchange in 1986 sparked his passion for heirloom tomatoes.
• He explains how heirloom tomatoes preserve genetics, history, and stories—and why today's newer open-pollinated varieties may become tomorrow's heirlooms.
• Craig describes the Dwarf Tomato Breeding Project, which ultimately produced about 170 new varieties through collaboration among roughly 1,000 gardeners.
• He explains why preserving even ordinary tomato varieties can matter, since hidden genetic traits may provide future solutions for heat, drought, water shortages, and disease.
• Craig tells the remarkable story of how he received the tomato that became Cherokee Purple and how a chain of seed sharing kept the variety from disappearing.
• He explains why gardeners should observe their tomato plants every day and adjust their methods based on growing conditions rather than blindly following a fixed schedule.
• Craig describes straw bale gardening, including conditioning the bales, managing water and nutrients, and eventually reusing the spent straw as valuable growing material.
• He closes with a simple philosophy: get your hands dirty, grow something, turn off the distractions, and let gardening change your life.

Resources

• Craig LeHoullier's Website — craiglehoullier.com
• Instagram — @nctomatoman
• Email Craig — [email protected]
• Epic Tomatoes — Epic Tomatoes: How to Select and Grow the Best Varieties of All Time
• Victory Seed Company — victoryseeds.com
• Joe Gardener Organic Gardening School — Self-paced courses covering seed starting, organic vegetable gardening, and tomato growing.
• Seed Savers Exchange — Craig's longtime seed-saving community and an important part of his journey.

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/EpicTomatoes for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

A Rosie On The House Replay w/ Jenny Beasley

Jenny Beasley of Heart for the City shares how a barren dirt lot in Glendale, Arizona, became a thriving community garden serving families, schools, volunteers, and gardeners from eight different cultures. She explains how partnerships, raised beds, shared food, and educational programs helped transform the space into much more than a place to grow vegetables. The conversation explores how community gardens create belonging, purpose, friendships, healthier neighborhoods, and stronger connections between people. Jenny also offers practical advice for anyone interested in starting a community garden of their own. 

Key Topics & Entities

• Heart for the City Garden
• Jenny Beasley
• Community gardens
• Glendale, Arizona
• Raised garden beds
• Community partnerships
• City of Glendale
• School garden partnerships
• Eight different cultures
• Cucuzza squash
• Urban gardening in the desert
• Gardening education
• Food access
• Community building

Key Questions Answered

How did Heart for the City Garden begin?

Jenny Beasley was challenged to transform a barren, partly asphalt-covered dirt lot into a community garden. The City of Glendale provided the property, while a community development grant helped fund the initial development. 

What made the raised beds such a game changer?

The raised beds gave individual families and gardeners a sense of ownership. They also allowed people from different cultures to grow vegetables they remembered from childhood or from their home countries. 

How does the garden bring different cultures together?

Gardeners from places including Jordan, Trinidad, China, Mexico, Hungary, and Peru grow alongside one another, sharing vegetables, recipes, gardening knowledge, and traditions. 

What is the biggest lesson Jenny learned about building community?

People want to feel connected and be part of something. Growing side by side gives people a natural way to participate, contribute, and build relationships. 

How can someone begin creating a community garden?

First determine what type of community garden you want to create, then visit and learn from gardens with similar goals. Jenny says learning from people who have already developed successful gardens can save enormous amounts of time. 

How does the garden operate in the Arizona heat?

Heart for the City Garden grows year-round. During the hottest part of the year, peppers, okra, herbs, and other crops are growing, while tomatoes can be more challenging. 

How does the garden create purpose for people?

Jenny describes a woman who unexpectedly retired and found purpose, friendships, activity, and a new routine through spending time at the garden. 

What happens beyond gardening at Heart for the City?

The garden hosts cooking events, recipe sharing, educational activities, guest speakers, celebrations, and even weddings. Visitors may leave with seeds, plants, or planting calendars. 

How does the surrounding neighborhood participate?

Neighbors walk to the garden with their children, donate gardening supplies, volunteer, and help one another. The garden has become a close-knit neighborhood resource rather than simply a place to grow food. 

What does Jenny consider the garden's greatest accomplishment?

She is most proud of how the gardeners connect, help one another, care for their garden spaces, celebrate life's milestones, and continue learning. As another gardener put it, they are “growing people also.” 

Episode Highlights

• A barren dirt lot becomes a thriving community garden and food forest over roughly 12 years. 
• Raised beds become a “game changer,” giving families ownership and encouraging participation from multiple cultures. 
• Partnerships with the City of Glendale, schools, businesses, and volunteers help sustain the garden. 
• The garden's cucuzza squash inspires a club, a giant trellis, shared recipes, and plenty of fun. 
• Gardeners support one another with rides, meals, home check-ins, and friendship—creating what Jenny calls a “big garden family.” 
• Cooking and food-sharing events help people learn what to do with the vegetables they grow. 
• The garden welcomes people from throughout the area who want to learn about gardening or simply connect with others. 
• Jenny's central message: community gardens don't just grow vegetables—they grow people and relationships. 

Calls to Action & Resources

Heart for the City Garden — heartforthecityaz.org

Contact Jenny Beasley — [email protected]

Visit Heart for the City Garden — 69th Avenue, north of Bethany Home, behind the fire station in Glendale, Arizona. 

Support the Garden — Donations and community support help with ongoing expenses, including water and garden operations. 

In this episode we explore the concept of wicking bed gardens, hosted by Romey Romero & Farmer Greg, our guest is .

Visit www.UrbanFarm.org/1003 for the show notes and links on this episode!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg, Janis or Ray to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this July Seed Chat, Greg Peterson, Bill McDorman, and Landen Schaelling explore how compost, fungi, microbial life, and living plant roots work together to build healthier soil. Landen explains why keeping plants growing is more important for long-term soil carbon than simply adding organic matter, and why fungal-rich compost can help store the carbon plants produce. The conversation covers cover crops, composting methods, curing, moisture, carbon-to-nitrogen ratios, chop-and-drop, crimping, and compost extracts. 

Our Guests: Landen Schaelling is the founder of Sacred Soil Solutions. He is focused on bringing optimal and approachable microbe inputs to gardeners and homesteaders, while also teaching farmers in the American West how to implement soil building solutions at scale.

And Bill McDorman has committed his life to community-based seed stewardship. In 1984, he started Seeds Trust High Altitude Gardens, a bioregional mail order seed company that he ran for 28 years. He authored the book Basic Seed Saving in 1994, and in 2010 Bill and his wife, Belle Starr, founded Seed School.

Key Topics

• Compost and soil health
• Fungal-dominant compost
• Soil food web
• Cover crops and living roots
• Rhizophagy cycle
• Microbial fermentations
• Liquid carbon and soil carbon storage
• Thermophilic composting
• Johnson-Su composting
• Bokashi
• Carbon-to-nitrogen ratios
• Chop-and-drop and crimping
• Compost curing and moisture
• Landen Schaelling / Sacred Soil Solutions

Key Questions Answered

Why are living plants more important than simply adding compost for long-term soil improvement?

Living plants act as the soil's “income earners,” putting liquid carbon into the soil through their roots. Compost can support that system, but keeping roots in the ground is what continually feeds the soil food web. 

What makes compost truly valuable?

The goal isn't simply the solid organic material. High-quality compost provides a living community of fungi and other soil food web organisms that can interact with plant roots and help store plant-derived carbon. 

How can you encourage fungal growth in compost?

Landen recommends a high-carbon pile, roughly 60–70% carbon, along with consistent moisture. Chunkier wood chips can help encourage fungal activity, and the compost needs a long curing period for the microbial community to develop. 

How long should compost cure?

After the heating phase, Landen recommends roughly nine to 12 months of curing with consistent moisture around 50–60%. He describes seeing a significant increase in fungi, protozoa, and other soil food web organisms as the compost matures. 

Should compost be sifted?

Landen strongly recommends against sifting mature compost because it adds oxygen, dries the material, and can damage fungal hyphae. The living organisms on the compost matter more than producing a perfectly fine, crumbly product. 

Can weeds function as cover crops?

Some weeds can contribute positively when they are temporarily left growing, but not all weeds provide the same benefits. Landen specifically notes that context matters and that some weeds can be less supportive of fungal relationships. 

What is the difference between chop-and-drop and crimping?

Chop-and-drop can create a rapid release of nitrogen, while crimping breaks the stems without completely severing them, allowing nutrients to move more slowly into the root system. Either approach works best when another crop is ready to capture the released nutrients. 

How often should microbial fermentation sprays be applied?

Landen says plants can benefit from very frequent, even daily, applications because they respond well to small amounts delivered consistently. However, he emphasizes that less frequent applications can still provide significant benefits when time is limited. 

What should consumers look for when buying compost?

Landen recommends asking compost producers for microscope analysis. He argues that microscopy provides important evidence about the biological quality of the finished compost. 

Episode Highlights

• Living plants, not dead organic matter, are the primary “income earners” that build soil carbon.
• Cover crops keep roots in the ground and continually support the soil food web.
• Fungal-rich compost helps capture and store the carbon produced by plants.
• A compost pile with roughly 60–70% carbon can encourage strong fungal development.
• Thermophilic composting is only part of the process; long-term curing is critical.
• Maintaining 50–60% moisture for nine to 12 months allows fungi and other soil organisms to develop.
• Sifting compost can damage fungal hyphae and reduce biological quality.
• Crimping can provide a slower nutrient release than chop-and-drop.
• The goal of compost is not simply decomposition—it is developing and applying microbial life.
• A fungally dominant compost can be extracted into water and applied directly rather than aerated like a bacterial tea. 

Calls to Action & Resources

• Attend future live Seed Chats — https://seedchat.org
• Listen to previous Seed Chats — https://urbanfarmpodcast.com
• Learn about Sacred Soil Solutions — Contact Landen Schaelling directly for information on Microbe Master Mix and educational resources. Instagram: @sacredsoilsolutions
• Facebook: Landen Schaelling
• Email: [email protected]

Our monthly Seed Chat at SeedChat.org

In This Podcast: In this month's Seed Chat Greg Peterson and Bill McDorman, discuss .

Visit UrbanFarm.org/1002 for the show notes and links on this episode!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

A Chat with Wendi Bergin

Greg Peterson and Wendi Bergin explore the “harvest mindset” and how to prepare for abundance before the garden starts producing more food than you can eat fresh. They discuss practical ways to preserve tomatoes, including freezing, canning, dehydrating, steam juicing, tomato powder, salsa, sauce, and tomato water. The conversation expands into zucchini preservation, fresh-milled grain, homesteading, preparedness, and the idea that being prepared can bring peace rather than fear. Throughout, Greg and Wendi emphasize experimenting, sharing ideas, and finding joy in growing and preserving local food.

Key Topics

• Harvest mindset and preparing for garden abundance
• Preserving large tomato harvests
• Freezing tomatoes whole
• Water bath canning vs. pressure canning
• Safe, tested canning practices
• Tomato sauce, salsa, tomato juice, and tomato water
• Steam juicing and tomato powder
• Zucchini preservation, relish, fritters, and zucchini lasagna
• Fresh-milled grain and home baking
• Azure Standard bulk buying club
• Homesteading and self-reliance
• Preparedness as a source of peace
• Local food economies and growing your own food
• Basil preservation and pesto

Key Questions Answered

• What is a “harvest mindset,” and why is it important?

A harvest mindset means expecting abundance instead of being overwhelmed by it. If you plant 20 tomato plants, you may get very little—or you may get pounds and pounds of tomatoes. Preparing ahead of time allows you to enjoy that abundance rather than scrambling to figure out what to do with it.

• What is the biggest mistake people make when harvest season begins?

Not being prepared. Wendi recommends having your preservation equipment, jars, lids, and other supplies ready before the large harvest arrives.

• What is a simple way to preserve tomatoes before the harvest gets really large?

Wash the tomatoes, place them in bags, and freeze them whole. As the harvest grows, the frozen tomatoes can later be taken out and canned.

• Why does tomato canning require added acid?

The discussion explains that modern tomato varieties may not be acidic enough for safe water-bath canning without additional acid. Lemon juice is discussed as a way to increase acidity when canning tomatoes.

• What is the difference between water-bath and pressure canning?

Water-bath canning uses boiling water and is intended for sufficiently acidic foods. Pressure canning reaches temperatures above the boiling point of water and is used for lower-acid foods such as meats and vegetables.

• What can you do with tomato water from a steam juicer?

Instead of throwing it away, Wendi cans tomato water and uses it in stews, goulash, chili, and for cooking pasta.

• What are some ways to use tomato powder?

Dehydrated tomatoes can be blended into powder and used to thicken spaghetti sauce, flavor broths, add to roasts, make tomato paste or sauce, create spice blends, and make tomato soup.

• How can you preserve a large zucchini harvest?

Zucchini can be shredded, have its excess water removed, and frozen. It can also be made into relish or pickles, fritters, bread, and even a lasagna using sliced zucchini instead of pasta.

• What is the larger lesson behind food preservation?

Preparedness can bring peace and help people live above fear. Whether facing an emergency or simply an overwhelming garden harvest, preparation makes it possible to respond confidently and joyfully.

Episode Highlights

• The harvest mindset starts before you have 50 pounds of tomatoes or zucchini.
• Freeze smaller tomato harvests as they arrive, then process them later when the volume increases.
• Being prepared means having jars, lids, equipment, and a preservation plan ready ahead of time.
• Preserve tomatoes simply by canning them as pure tomato sauce and adding herbs and spices later when cooking.
• Steam juicing can separate tomato juice from the solids, creating useful tomato water and concentrated tomato material.
• Dehydrated tomatoes can become tomato powder with dozens of potential uses.
• Zucchini can become relish, pickles, fritters, frozen shreds, or even pasta-free lasagna.
• Preparedness isn't about fear—it can create peace, self-reliance, and joy in abundance.

Calls to Action & Resources

• Azure Standard — azurestandard.com
• Homesteading Made Simple / Joyfully Prepared Podcast — Search for “Homesteading Made Simple” or “Joyfully Prepared”
• Homesteading Made Simple on YouTube — Search for “Homesteading Made Simple”
• Urban Farm Podcast — Listen to the Urban Farm Podcast for more conversations about growing food, local food economies, and self-reliance.
• Grow your own food — Visit your local farmers market, grow herbs and vegetables, and find ways to participate in your local food economy

Content Advisory

Food preservation safety is discussed, including water-bath and pressure canning. The guests strongly recommend following prescribed, tested canning recipes and established safety guidelines rather than using unverified preservation methods.

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/1001 for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

What 1,000 Conversations Taught Me About Real Wealth

In this milestone 1,000th episode, Greg Peterson reflects on more than 50 years as an entrepreneur, 34 years of building regenerative food systems, and nearly 11 years of consistently publishing The Urban Farm Podcast. Rather than measuring success solely in dollars, he explores the deeper forms of wealth created through knowledge, community, resilience, and food sovereignty. Through stories of listeners whose lives were transformed by growing food, Greg makes the case that every garden, fruit tree, and saved seed becomes part of the infrastructure for a stronger local food economy.

Our Guest: “What if there was a garden and fruit tree in every yard?” This is a question that Greg ponders every day. For over 32 years he created of one of Phoenix's first environmental showcase homes for urban farming. The 1/4-acre yard featured a primarily edible landscape with over 80 fruit trees, rainwater and greywater harvesting, solar applications, and extensive use of reclaimed and recycled building materials. What we now call an Old Growth Food Forest. He is the co-founder of Great American Seed Up an educational organization designed to energize local seeds. He is also the founder of UrbanFarm.org and the host of The Urban Farm Podcast that has 1000 episodes and over 5 million listens. The podcast is designed to help fulfill Greg’s passion of spreading the word about growing your own food and sharing new and seasoned gardeners epic stories.

Key Topics & Entities

• The Urban Farm Podcast's 1,000-episode milestone
• Local food economy as community infrastructure
• Regenerative agriculture and permaculture
• Food sovereignty and household resilience
• Urban Farm Phoenix food forest
• Asheville food forest project
• Fruit tree education for desert climates
• Seed saving as community infrastructure
• Building knowledge archives through podcasting
• Entrepreneurial purpose beyond financial success
• Community gardens and food access
• Parallel food systems and resilience
• Consistency as a long-term investment
• Transforming the global food system one backyard at a time

Key Questions Answered

Why does Greg believe he was "paid twice" without receiving money?

He describes receiving recognition from ChatGPT for the long-term impact of the podcast and a handwritten letter with saved seeds from a listener who started a community garden at a Chicago homeless shelter. Both affirmed that meaningful work creates value beyond financial income.

What is a local food economy?

A local food economy is more than farmers markets. It is the infrastructure that enables communities to produce, preserve, share, and distribute food locally, making them less dependent on fragile global supply chains.

Why is growing food an act of resilience?

Every garden, fruit tree, and saved seed strengthens local knowledge, increases food security, and builds community resilience against disruptions in centralized food systems.

Why has consistency mattered more than revenue?

Publishing every Friday for nearly 11 years created a searchable teaching archive that continues helping new listeners long after each episode was released. Greg argues that knowledge compounds just like healthy ecosystems do.

What does Greg mean by "payment in multiple currencies"?

He defines wealth as the accumulation of knowledge, confidence, relationships, healthier communities, seed saving, and transformed lives—not simply financial profit.

How can anyone begin participating in a local food economy?

Start small by growing one plant, planting a fruit tree, joining a community garden, learning seed saving, visiting farmers markets, and sharing knowledge with others. Every action strengthens the larger network.

Episode Highlights

• Greg reflects on reaching 1,000 podcast episodes and the unexpected recognition that confirmed the long-term impact of his work.
• A listener's community garden at a Chicago homeless shelter demonstrates how knowledge creates lasting change beyond the original conversation.
• The Urban Farm in Phoenix serves as a decades-long proof of concept for regenerative food production in the desert.
• Local food economies are built through relationships, education, and community infrastructure—not simply food sales.
• Showing up consistently for nearly 11 years transformed individual podcast episodes into a permanent knowledge archive.
• Every saved seed, backyard garden, and farmers market vendor contributes to resilient parallel food systems.
• Real wealth includes confidence, skills, community, and the ability to feed yourself and others.
• Greg challenges listeners to become active participants in rebuilding local food systems by simply growing something.

Resources

• Listen to the Urban Farm Podcast — Search the archive of 1,000+ episodes for practical gardening, permaculture, fruit tree, and food system education. UrbanFarmPodcast.com
• Grow Something — Start with one tomato, herb, or fruit tree and experience your first harvest.
• Save Seeds — Learn to preserve and share locally adapted seeds for future generations. GreatAmericanSeedUp.org
• Support Your Local Food Economy — Visit farmers markets, community gardens, and local growers.
• Share What You Learn — Teach someone else to grow food and help expand the network of local resilience.

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/1000 for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

Growing Food, Building Abundance, and Working with Nature

In a unique twist, Greg is interviewed by Taylor Luke of the Tales with Tayler Podcast. In this Episode Greg Peterson shares the philosophy and practical systems that have guided more than four decades of growing food in the desert and beyond. From creating an old-growth food forest in Phoenix to building local seed resilience through the Great American Seed Up, he explains how anyone can begin producing food at home. The conversation explores permaculture, fruit trees, seed saving, local food economies, and why understanding where food comes from is one of the most important skills of our time.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about what I was going to do for my 1000th episode of the Farm podcast. And was recently interviewed by Tayler Wellman of tales with Tayler. After listening to the episode, I thought it would be a great jumping off point for my 1000th narrative episode. This tells some of my story and she did a really great job with the interview so I asked and she said yes, play it on your podcast. This will give you two opportunities, first to experience a new podcast and second to hear some of my backstory leading into the next 1000 episodes. Enjoy!

Our Guest: Taylor hosts "Tales With Taylor," a spirited interview podcast where successful entrepreneurs and business owners share their most captivating stories from childhood to future goals. Each episode blends life-changing advice, nostalgic reflections, and playful humor, as guests open up about the best advice they've ever received, the lessons they wish they'd known sooner, and the legacy they hope to leave behind. Part business wisdom, part storytelling adventure, Tales With Taylor offers a genuine, personal connection to the highs, lows, and hard-won insights of inspiring people in the business world.

Taylor is the owner and operator of Financial Potion, a video marketing company based in Mesa, Arizona. Taylor helps businesses and organizations make swift, lasting impressions through tailor-made video marketing, personally guiding every step from scriptwriting to production, editing, and video SEO. Clients consistently praise the process as stress-free and genuinely enjoyable.

Key Topics

• Greg Peterson
• Urban Farm
• Urban Farm Podcast
• Permaculture
• Food forests
• Fruit trees and perennial food production
• The Great American Seed Up
• Seed saving and home seed banks
• Local food economies
• Desert gardening
• Asheville, North Carolina
• Tower Gardens
• Farmers markets
• Regenerative systems

Key Questions Answered

What was Greg Peterson's favorite harvest?

His favorite harvest is food that returns naturally year after year without replanting. Self-seeding crops like basil, parsley, cilantro, kale, nasturtiums, and sweet potatoes transformed his Phoenix property into an old-growth food forest that largely cared for itself.

Why are fruit trees such an important investment?

Fruit trees are planted once and can provide fresh food for decades. Greg shares stories of century-old citrus trees and explains why fruit trees offer one of the highest long-term returns for home gardeners.

What is permaculture?

Permaculture is the art and science of working with nature instead of against it. Greg explains how designing landscapes that mimic natural ecosystems creates resilient, productive gardens with less work over time.

Why should every household maintain a seed bank?

Seeds are the foundation of food security. Greg explains how storing seeds at home strengthens local resilience and inspired the creation of the Great American Seed Up, helping thousands of people build personal seed reserves.

Do seeds really expire?

Not necessarily. Most expiration dates reflect packaging regulations rather than biological limits. When stored cool, dark, and dry, many seeds remain viable for years—even decades.

How can beginners successfully start growing food?

Start small with crops you already enjoy eating. Herbs like basil are inexpensive, productive, and easy to grow—even on a sunny windowsill.

What if someone doesn't have a yard?

Greg recommends Tower Gardens, container gardening, windowsill herbs, and visiting local farmers markets. Food production is possible even in apartments and condos.

Why is understanding our food system so important?

Knowing where food comes from reconnects people with healthier eating, stronger local economies, and more resilient communities. Growing even a small amount of food changes the way people think about nutrition and sustainability.

How can individuals help address climate change?

Focus on regenerative practices that work with nature. Growing food, improving soil, supporting local farmers, and creating resilient food systems are practical actions anyone can take.

Which book most influenced Greg's thinking?

Ishmael by Daniel Quinn profoundly shaped Greg's worldview by challenging assumptions about humanity's relationship with nature and inspiring his lifelong mission of transforming food systems.

Episode Highlights

• Greg explains how self-seeding plants transformed his yard into an old-growth food forest that produces food with minimal maintenance.
• Fruit trees are presented as one of the easiest long-term investments for home food production.
• The story behind the creation of the Great American Seed Up and its mission to build community seed resilience.
• Why seeds stored properly can remain viable for decades despite printed expiration dates.
• Lessons learned growing food in both the Arizona desert and the mountains of North Carolina.
• How Tower Gardens make food production possible for apartment and condo dwellers.
• The philosophy that nature is regenerative while most human systems are degenerative—and why that must change.
• Greg's lifelong mission: helping people understand where their food comes from by inspiring them to grow even a small portion themselves.

Calls to Action & Resources

• Urban Farm — https://urbanfarm.org
• Urban Farm Podcast — https://urbanfarmpodcast.com
• Great American Seed Up — https://greatamericanseedup.org
• Fruit Trees Program — https://fruittrees.org
• Free Desert Planting Calendar — https://plantingcalendar.org
• Learn about Permaculture — Explore local Permaculture Design Courses (PDCs) at Permaculture.net
• Visit Your Local Farmers Market — Meet local growers and buy seasonal food directly.
• Read: Ishmael by Daniel Quinn
• Tales with Taylor Podcast on podcast platforms and HERE on YouTube
• Tales with Taylor Website - https://taleswithtaylor.com

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/999 for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

A Rosie On The House Replay

In this episode we explore the concept of wicking bed gardens, hosted by Romey Romero & Farmer Greg, our guest is Don Titmus where we find that Water harvesting is about far more than capturing rain, it is a foundation for resilient landscapes, healthier soils, and regenerative living. Greg Peterson welcomes longtime permaculture educator Don Titmus to share the evolution of his Mesa, Arizona property, beeOasis, and the lessons he's learned from decades of designing landscapes that work with nature instead of against it. Together they explore permaculture principles, rainwater harvesting, biodiversity, and how small design choices can create thriving ecosystems in urban environments.

Key Topics

• Water harvesting and passive rainwater collection
• Permaculture design principles
• Don Titmus
• Greg Peterson
• beeOasis (Mesa, Arizona)
• Urban Farm
• Phoenix Permaculture Guild
• Permaculture Design Course (PDC)
• Pollinator habitat creation
• Composting systems
• Top-bar beekeeping
• Biodiversity in urban landscapes
• Landscape design for resilience
• Long-term ecological thinking

Questions

How did beeOasis get its name?

Don explains that after attending a top-bar beekeeping class, he realized his property naturally provided everything bees need—water, flowers, trees, pollen, nectar, and shelter—making it a true oasis for pollinators.

Why did Don stop keeping bees?

Although his landscape was ideal for bees, the hive's location near his compost system made routine compost maintenance difficult because the bees aggressively defended their territory. He ultimately donated the hives while continuing to maintain the property as pollinator habitat.

How did Greg and Don first connect?

The two met shortly after Don completed his first Permaculture Design Course in the early 2000s during an event at Greg's Urban Farm. Their shared passion for regenerative design led to years of collaboration through the Phoenix Permaculture Guild.

What role did the Phoenix Permaculture Guild play?

The guild became a hub for education, demonstrations, public tours, and community outreach, helping spread knowledge about rainwater harvesting, graywater systems, and sustainable landscape design.

Why is naming a property important?

Greg encouraged people to name their properties as a way to establish identity, purpose, and connection to the land. Don shares how this simple suggestion helped shape the identity of beeOasis.

What makes a landscape resilient?

A resilient landscape integrates water harvesting, healthy soils, diverse plantings, pollinator habitat, and thoughtful design that works with natural systems instead of relying on constant inputs.

Episode Highlights

• Greg introduces longtime permaculture educator Don Titmus and their decades-long friendship through the Arizona permaculture community.
• Don shares the story behind creating and naming beeOasis.
• The conversation explores how pollinator-friendly landscapes support both wildlife and resilient gardens.
• Don recounts his experience as a beekeeper and why he ultimately chose to remove the hives while preserving bee habitat.
• Greg reflects on the early years of the Phoenix Permaculture Guild and its influence on water harvesting education.
• The discussion highlights how permaculture principles can transform ordinary urban properties into thriving ecosystems.
• Listeners hear practical examples of designing landscapes that capture water naturally and build long-term resilience.

Calls to Action & Resources

• Learn more about Urban Farm — https://UrbanFarm.org
• Explore permaculture education and courses — https://UrbanFarm.org
• Visit beeOasis during public tours — Check local announcements for tour opportunities.
• Community — Connect with local permaculture organizations and water harvesting groups to learn hands-on techniques.

Visit www.UrbanFarm.org/998 for the show notes and links on this episode!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg, Janis or Ray to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

With Graham Duvall of Terramonga Food Hub

In this Episode Graham Duvall shares his 15-year journey building resilient regional food systems in western North Carolina through Mother Earth Food and its evolution into Terramonga Hub. He explains how food hubs strengthen local agriculture by connecting farmers with consumers, creating reliable market access, and improving food security. The conversation explores the realities of entrepreneurship, the collapse and rebirth of a mission-driven business, and why resilient local food economies are essential for thriving communities. Graham also reflects on personal growth, mindfulness, and the importance of staying committed to meaningful work despite repeated setbacks.

Our Guest: Graham is the co-founder of Mother Earth Foods and warehouse manager at Terramonga Hub in Asheville, North Carolina. He is a longtime advocate for resilient regional food systems, helping connect local farms, food artisans, and communities through innovative food distribution and aggregation networks. His work supports sustainable agriculture, strengthens western North Carolina local food economy, and expands access to fresh, responsibly produced food.

Key Topics

• Graham Duvall
• Terramonga Hub
• Mother Earth Food
• Regional food hubs
• Local food systems
• Food sovereignty
• Western North Carolina agriculture
• Farmers markets
• Community Supported Agriculture (CSA)
• Healthy Opportunities Pilot (HOP) Program
• Regenerative agriculture
• Local food distribution
• Daniel Quinn's Ishmael
• Michael Pollan's How to Change Your Mind

Key Questions Answered

What is a food hub?

A food hub is a flexible community-based organization that aggregates, stores, markets, and distributes products from local farms while creating dependable outlets for producers and increasing access to fresh local food.

Why are food hubs becoming increasingly important?

They help rebuild regional food resilience, support small farmers, shorten supply chains, strengthen local economies, and improve food security in an increasingly centralized food system.

Why do farmers need food hubs?

Many farmers can grow enough food but struggle to find reliable markets. Food hubs solve this by connecting producers with consumers, institutions, and community organizations.

Why is western North Carolina well suited for local food systems?

The region combines a rich agricultural history, strong farmers market culture, experienced growers, fertile farmland, and community support for local agriculture.

How does Terra Monga Hub serve customers?

Customers order online each week from a curated selection of seasonal produce, meats, dairy, artisan foods, and pantry items sourced primarily from local and regional farms and delivered directly to their homes.

What happened to Mother Earth Food?

After 14 years of operation and multiple financial challenges, Mother Earth Food closed and transitioned into Terra Monga Hub through a partnership with Terra Monga Farm, allowing the mission to continue under a new structure.

What lessons come from entrepreneurial failure?

Business setbacks can become opportunities when the mission remains intact. Adaptability, persistence, and strong partnerships often create the path forward.

How can individuals help transform the food system?

Start locally by growing food, supporting nearby farmers, shopping at farmers markets, and investing in community food systems where you live.

Episode Highlights

• Graham explains how food hubs create reliable market access for local farmers while strengthening community resilience.
• The evolution of Mother Earth Food into Terra Monga Hub demonstrates how mission-driven businesses can adapt after financial hardship.
• Western North Carolina's farming heritage provides fertile ground for rebuilding regional food systems.
• Graham shares how the Healthy Opportunities Pilot Program delivered nutritious food to hundreds of food-insecure families.
• Entrepreneurship in local food requires resilience through repeated cycles of growth, contraction, and reinvention.
• Personal development, mindfulness, and intentional self-reflection helped Graham maintain clarity during difficult seasons.
• Both Graham and Greg discuss how Daniel Quinn's Ishmael fundamentally changed their understanding of humanity's relationship with food and nature.
• The conversation concludes with a reminder that meaningful change begins within our homes and local communities.

Resources

• Learn about Terramonga Hub — https://terramongahub.com
• Contact Graham Duvall — [email protected]
• Visit your local farmers market and support regional food producers.
• Start a home garden to reconnect with your food source.
• Read: Ishmael by Daniel Quinn
• Read: How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/Terramonga for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

How we are finally figuring out Plant nutrition with Landen Schaelling

In this month's Seed Chat, Greg Peterson and Bill McDorman welcome Landen Schaelling of Sacred Soil Solutions to explore the emerging science of rhizophagy, the process by which plants consume microbes for nutrition. The conversation examines how endophytes, fermentation, compost, and seed saving may work together to improve plant health, resilience, and flavor. They also discuss practical ways gardeners can introduce beneficial microbes into their gardens while highlighting the rapidly evolving research that is reshaping our understanding of soil biology and plant nutrition.

Our Guests: Landen Schaelling is the founder of Sacred Soil Solutions. He is focused on bringing optimal and approachable microbe inputs to gardeners and homesteaders, while also teaching farmers in the American West how to implement soil building solutions at scale.

And Bill McDorman has committed his life to community-based seed stewardship. In 1984, he started Seeds Trust High Altitude Gardens, a bioregional mail order seed company that he ran for 28 years. He authored the book Basic Seed Saving in 1994, and in 2010 Bill and his wife, Belle Starr, founded Seed School.

Key Topics

• Rhizophagy (root-eating process)
• Endophytes and plant microbiomes
• Soil microbiology
• Seed saving and local adaptation
• Horizontal gene transfer
• Fermentation for microbial cultivation
• Compost and fungal soil biology
• Microbe Master Mix
• Effective Microorganisms (EM/EM1)
• Dr. James F. White
• John Kempf's Plant Health Pyramid
• Dr. Christine Jones
• Biochar and Terra Preta
• Sacred Soil Solutions

Key Questions Answered

What is rhizophagy?

Rhizophagy is the process by which plants absorb living microbes through their root tips, consume many of them for nutrition, and release others back into the soil, creating a dynamic relationship between plants and soil biology.

What are endophytes?

Endophytes are beneficial bacteria and fungi that live inside plant tissues without causing disease. They become part of the plant's internal microbiome and contribute to nutrient cycling, resilience, and overall plant health.

Why is this research changing how we understand plant nutrition?

Emerging research suggests healthy plants obtain much of their nutrition by consuming living microbes rather than relying solely on dissolved minerals in the soil, expanding traditional models of plant nutrition.

Why are locally saved seeds so valuable?

Seeds saved in a local environment gradually adapt genetically to regional growing conditions. Local microbial communities appear to undergo similar adaptation, potentially increasing plant vigor over time.

How can gardeners introduce beneficial microbes?

Gardeners can inoculate seeds, apply microbial solutions as foliar sprays, drench transplant roots, build high-quality compost, and encourage living soil ecosystems through mulch and cover crops.

Why are microbial fermentations useful?

Fermentation allows gardeners to rapidly multiply beneficial microorganisms that can be applied efficiently to seeds, soil, and foliage while adapting to local growing conditions.

Does treating seeds with microbes improve plant performance?

According to Landen Schaelling's experience, treated seeds often produce stronger root systems, healthier foliage, improved nutrient uptake, greater vigor, and enhanced flavor.

Is feeding the plant different from feeding the soil?

The discussion suggests both are important, but directly supporting plant microbiology may allow healthier plants to build better soil through root exudates and microbial partnerships.

How does drought affect soil microbes?

Dry soils reduce microbial activity. Maintaining mulch and consistent soil moisture helps preserve beneficial microbial populations.

Can microbial communities adapt to new environments?

Yes. Through horizontal gene transfer and rapid reproduction, microbial populations can adapt to local conditions much faster than plants themselves.

Episode Highlights

• Greg celebrates the Urban Farm Podcast approaching its 1,000th episode.
• Bill McDorman introduces the emerging science of rhizophagy and why it has changed his perspective on gardening.
• Landen explains how plants consume microbes through root tips rather than relying solely on dissolved nutrients.
• The conversation explores how endophytes become part of a plant's internal immune and digestive systems.
• Bill shares dramatic improvements after using microbial treatments on greens grown in sandy soil.
• The panel discusses microbial fermentations as an accessible alternative to intensive compost production.
• Audience questions cover drought, raised beds, honey versus molasses, wheat adaptation, and sourcing microbial inoculants.
• The episode concludes with a discussion about nature's intelligence, seed adaptation, and the intriguing tradition of placing seeds in one's mouth before planting.

Calls to Action & Resources

• Attend future live Seed Chats — https://seedchat.org
• Listen to previous Seed Chats — https://urbanfarmpodcast.com
• Learn about Sacred Soil Solutions — Contact Landen Schaelling directly for information on Microbe Master Mix and educational resources. Instagram: @sacredsoilsolutions
• Facebook: Landen Schaelling
• Email: [email protected]
• Recommended Research
• Dr. James F. White — Rhizophagy Cycle research
• John Kempf — Plant Health Pyramid
• Dr. Christine Jones — Soil carbon and regenerative agriculture
• Effective Microorganisms (EM/EM1) fermentation methods

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/996 for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

with Brad Lancaster & Andrew Millison

In this Episode - What begins as a simple effort to redirect stormwater becomes a powerful story of ecological restoration, community organizing, and policy change. Brad Lancaster and Andrew Millison discuss how a grassroots, initially "pre-legal" water harvesting project transformed neighborhoods in Tucson, inspired new city policies, and is now influencing communities across the Southwest. They explore how small interventions can create lasting cultural shifts, why regenerative change requires generations of stewardship, and how anyone can become a catalyst for positive change in their own community.

Our Guests: Brad is the author of the books Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond, the creator of HarvestingRainwater.com, and co-founder of Neighborhood Foresters.org. These converge through his neighborhood’s rain-irrigated native food forestry efforts in downtown Tucson, AZ. Their work has planted over 1,800 native food-bearing trees and thousands of multi-use understory plants solely watered by the 1.25 million gallons of stormwater they planted in streetside- and in-street rain gardens. 

 Andrew Millison is an educator and founder of Oregon State University’s Permaculture Design program. He has travelled the Earth documenting impactful stories of land regeneration on his popular YouTube channel, which boasts over 100 million video views. In his 30-year career in Permaculture, he has designed and consulted on numerous projects throughout the world.

Key Topics

• Street-side water harvesting
• Brad Lancaster
• Andrew Millison
• Tucson neighborhood restoration
• Community-led ecological design
• Rainwater harvesting
• Urban heat island mitigation
• Native food forests
• Water policy reform
• Regenerative community development
• Green infrastructure
• Earth Repair Fund
• Neighborhood stewardship
• Permaculture design

Key Questions Answered

How did an illegal curb cut become a model for public policy?

A neighborhood experiment redirecting street runoff into planted basins demonstrated measurable environmental and community benefits. Those results convinced city officials to legalize and eventually promote the practice, creating a model now spreading to other cities.

What problems does street-side water harvesting solve?

It reduces flooding, cools neighborhoods, slows traffic, supports native ecosystems, grows food, increases biodiversity, improves walkability, and strengthens neighborhood relationships—all using rainwater that previously became waste.

Why is community participation more important than infrastructure?

Infrastructure creates opportunity, but long-term success depends on residents becoming active stewards. Cultural change happens when people continually care for and improve the systems they've created together.

How has Tucson changed over the past 30 years?

What was once a hot, barren streetscape has become a shaded urban forest filled with native plants, birds, pedestrians, cyclists, and community gathering spaces.

Why focus on native plants?

Native species require less irrigation, survive harsh conditions, support local wildlife, and create resilient landscapes that continue thriving even when maintenance decreases.

What does "pre-legal" mean?

Rather than breaking rules for the sake of rebellion, Brad describes testing practical solutions before regulations existed. Successful demonstrations then became the basis for changing policy.

How do you convince government agencies to support innovation?

By solving their existing problems—flooding, crime, heat, traffic, maintenance costs—and collaborating with receptive allies inside government rather than making demands.

When does a project become a cultural movement?

When it measurably improves people's daily lives, inspires widespread participation, changes public policy, and motivates others to adapt the ideas within their own communities.

Why did Andrew Millison choose to document this story?

Because it represents a proven, decades-long example of regenerative change that others can replicate, offering practical hope instead of theoretical solutions.

What mindset shift do the speakers hope listeners experience?

To begin seeing neighborhoods as living watersheds full of opportunities for regeneration, rather than fixed infrastructure that cannot be improved.

Episode Highlights

• A neighborhood experiment in harvesting street runoff evolved into city-approved infrastructure and inspired policy changes beyond Tucson.
• Water harvesting became a catalyst for cooling neighborhoods, restoring wildlife habitat, calming traffic, and building stronger communities.
• Native food forests transformed once-barren public rights-of-way into productive community commons.
• Brad Lancaster explains how changing policy requires collaboration, persistence, and demonstrating successful models.
• Andrew Millison shares why documenting proven regenerative projects creates hope and motivates action.
• The discussion explores how infrastructure can become a tool for cultural transformation.
• Both guests emphasize that regenerative work is lifelong, requiring continual community participation rather than one-time projects.
• Listeners are encouraged to identify their own community's "acupuncture point"—the small intervention capable of creating widespread positive change.

Resources

Watch the documentary

• Fundraising documentary on Brad Lancaster's Tucson water harvesting project

Learn Rainwater Harvesting

• HarvestingRainwater.com

Support the Project

• Earth Repair Fund crowdfunding campaign

Explore Native Urban Forestry

• NeighborhoodForesters.org

Learn Permaculture

• Oregon State University Permaculture Program

Books

• Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond by Brad Lancaster

YouTube

• Andrew Millison
• Brad Lancaster

Podcast Show Notes Visit www.urbanfarm.org/TucsonWaterHarvesting for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

 Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback. Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.