Harvesting, Milling, and Cooking with Arizona’s Native Superfood

In this episode we explore mesquites as a desert food source, hosted by Romey Romero & Farmer Greg. This episodes guests are Peggy Sue Creekmore and Mike Clow and we explore one of the Sonoran Desert’s most abundant and overlooked food sources: mesquite beans. The conversation covers how to identify quality mesquite trees, harvest pods safely, dry them properly, and turn them into nutritious mesquite flour using a community hammer mill. Listeners learn why mesquite has been a staple food for centuries, how it compares to conventional flour, and how to transform this free local resource into delicious baked goods, drinks, and snacks. The episode also highlights educational workshops, harvesting walks, and community milling opportunities.

Key Topics & Entities

• Mesquite bean harvesting
• Mesquite flour production
• Community hammer mill project
• Native desert food systems
• Peggy Sue Creekmore
• Mike Clow
• Farmer Greg Peterson
• Sonoran Desert edible plants
• Palo verde beans
• Carob pods
• Ironwood seeds
• Aflatoxin prevention
• Bruchid beetles
• Urban Farm mesquite milling events

Key Questions Answered

Why is mesquite considered a valuable food source?

Mesquite pods are highly nutritious, naturally sweet, gluten-free, and rich in protein. Indigenous peoples and desert communities have relied on mesquite as a staple food across the Southwest and northern Mexico for centuries.

Do all mesquite trees produce good-tasting pods?

No. While all mesquite pods are technically edible, flavor varies significantly from tree to tree. Some are sweet and pleasant, while others can be chalky or have an unpleasant aftertaste. Tasting pods before harvesting is essential.

What does mesquite flour taste like?

Mesquite flour has a naturally sweet flavor often compared to graham crackers, caramel, or malt. Many recipes require little or no additional sugar because of the flour’s natural sweetness.

When is mesquite harvesting season?

Mesquite pods typically begin ripening in June, although weather and elevation can shift timing earlier or later. Pods should be fully tan, dry, and free of green coloration before harvesting.

How should mesquite pods be harvested?

Harvest pods directly from the tree rather than from the ground. Many harvesters use a tarp and gently shake or tap branches to collect ripe pods.

Why shouldn't pods be collected from the ground?

Ground-harvested pods can develop mold and aflatoxins, which may contaminate community milling equipment and reduce food safety.

How can harvested pods be stored properly?

Pods should be dried thoroughly in shallow boxes, baskets, dehydrators, ovens, or even a parked vehicle. Moisture is the primary cause of spoilage and milling problems.

What is a mesquite hammer mill?

A hammer mill is a specialized machine that pulverizes entire mesquite pods, including seeds and pod walls, into flour. Traditional grain mills cannot process mesquite effectively because its natural sugars gum up the machinery.

What can be made with mesquite flour?

Mesquite flour can be used in cookies, muffins, crepes, breads, energy balls, beverages, and other baked goods. It works particularly well in low-temperature baking and gluten-free recipes.

What happens to the material that doesn't become flour?

The coarse material, often called "chunky bits" or chaff, can be used to make tea, brewing mash, and other food products.

Episode Highlights

• Mesquite flour is naturally sweet enough to reduce or eliminate added sugar in many recipes.
• Flavor quality varies dramatically between mesquite trees, making tasting an important step before harvesting.
• A mature mesquite tree can produce more than 100 pounds of pods in a season.
• Harvesters should only collect pods directly from the tree to prevent mold contamination.
• Proper drying is the single most important factor for successful milling.
• The Urban Farm community hammer mill converts harvested pods into food-grade flour.
• Mesquite flour is gluten-free and requires binders such as eggs, chia, or applesauce when baking.
• Desert trees such as palo verde, carob, ironwood, and mesquite offer significant edible resources often overlooked by modern food systems.

Calls to Action & Resources

• Mesquite Harvesting Walks — https://urbanfarm.org/mesquite
• Mesquite Milling Appointments — https://urbanfarm.org/mesquite
• Urban Farm Educational Programs — https://urbanfarm.org
• Desert Food Tree Guide — https://learn.desertkitchen.net/trees

Visit www.UrbanFarm.org/990 for the show notes and links on this episode!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg, Janis or Ray to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this Episode Beth Cole of Riverview Farms shares how local farms strengthen communities, preserve farmland, improve food security, and support healthier ecosystems. Drawing from her experience as a market gardener in Western North Carolina, Beth explains the value of Certified Naturally Grown certification, community-supported agriculture (CSA), farmers markets, and home gardening. She also reflects on lessons learned from Hurricane Helene, the challenges of starting a farm, and why growing food is one of the most important skills families can develop.

Our Guest: Beth Cole is a market gardener in Asheville, North Carolina. At their farm they grow a variety of certified naturally grown veggies and cut flowers, are passionate about preserving farmland in the region and growing real food that nourishes the community.

Key Topics

• Beth Cole
• Riverview Farms
• Market gardening
• Asparagus production
• Certified Naturally Grown (CNG)
• Local food systems
• Community Supported Agriculture (CSA)
• Farmers markets
• Hurricane Helene recovery
• Soil health and floodplain farming
• Garden plant starts
• Dirt Craft Living Soils
• Food security and preparedness
• Growing food in Western North Carolina

Key Questions Answered

What is market gardening?

Market gardening is small-scale intensive food production focused on growing a diverse mix of vegetables and flowers for local markets, restaurants, and consumers. Riverview Farms grows on roughly two acres while maintaining additional acreage for wildlife habitat, hay production, and floodplain preservation.

How does asparagus grow?

Asparagus is a long-term perennial crop typically started from crowns. Growers wait several years before harvesting heavily, with full production often beginning around year five. Well-maintained asparagus beds can remain productive for 15 years or longer.

What is Certified Naturally Grown?

Certified Naturally Grown follows standards similar to organic certification but is designed for smaller farms. The program emphasizes sustainability, biodiversity, wildlife habitat, and farmland preservation while relying on peer-to-peer farm inspections rather than third-party auditors.

Why does buying from local farms matter?

Purchasing from local farms helps preserve farmland, protect watersheds, support pollinators, strengthen local economies, and provide farmers with a sustainable livelihood. Local food purchases keep money circulating within the community.

What is a CSA?

Community Supported Agriculture allows customers to purchase a subscription to a farm's harvest. Members share both the risks and rewards of farming while providing farmers with critical early-season income.

What positive lessons came from Hurricane Helene?

Although the storm caused significant damage throughout the region, Beth observed that floodplain farmland acted as a natural sponge, reducing downstream impacts. In some areas, nutrient-rich sediments deposited by floodwaters improved soil quality and organic matter.

Why should gardeners buy plants locally?

Locally grown plant starts are better adapted to regional growing conditions and often outperform plants shipped long distances to big-box stores. Supporting local growers also strengthens the regional food economy.

Why do new gardeners struggle?

Gardening is a learned skill that requires time, observation, and experience. Success depends on understanding local conditions, improving soil health, and accepting mistakes as part of the learning process.

Why are farmers markets important?

Farmers markets provide the freshest possible produce, often harvested within 24 hours of sale. They create direct relationships between growers and consumers while supporting local agriculture.

What motivates Beth's farming work?

Beth is driven by concerns about chronic disease, declining food quality, and the disconnect between people and real food. She believes locally grown produce can improve both individual and community health.

Episode Highlights

• Beth transitioned from humanitarian work and Montana grain farming into market gardening in North Carolina.
• Riverview Farms shifted from primarily asparagus production to diversified vegetable and flower production.
• Asparagus requires patience, often taking five years before reaching full harvest potential.
• Certified Naturally Grown certification strengthens farmer-to-farmer learning through peer inspections.
• Buying local food directly supports farmland preservation, pollinator habitat, and watershed protection.
• Hurricane Helene highlighted the important role farms play in absorbing floodwaters and protecting communities.
• Local plant starts provide gardeners with healthier, more resilient plants adapted to regional conditions.
• Farmers markets offer unmatched freshness while building relationships between farmers and consumers.
• Soil quality is one of the most important investments gardeners can make.
• Gardening success comes from persistence, observation, and continuous learning.

Calls to Action & Resources

Certified Naturally Grown

https://www.naturallygrown.org

Riverview Farms NC

Facebook: Riverview Farms NC

Appalachian Sustainable Agriculture Project (ASAP)

https://asapconnections.org

Dirt Craft Living Soils

https://dirtcraftorganics.com

Recommended Book

Grow Great Vegetables in North Carolina — A practical guide for understanding regional growing conditions, soil, weather patterns, and crop selection.

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/RiverviewFarms for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

The Preserver's Garden: Featuring Staci and Jeremy Hill of Gooseberry Bridge Farm

In this Episode Staci and Jeremy share their journey from suburban living to operating an 11-acre farm in the Ozark Mountains of Missouri. What began as a small raised-bed garden evolved into a lifestyle centered on food production, preservation, agritourism, and self-sufficiency. In this conversation, they discuss how preserving food became a cornerstone of their family's food security strategy, why they intentionally grow crops for canning and freeze-drying, and how planning a "preserver's garden" differs from traditional gardening. They also share lessons learned from preservation failures, the economics of home food production, and the inspiration behind their book, The Preserver's Garden.

Our Guests: Stacy and Jeremy Hill are the owners of Gooseberry Bridge Farm, located in the Ozark Mountains of Southwest Missouri. They moved from the typical house at the end of a cul-de-sac in a subdivision to an 11-acre farm almost 10 years ago, and haven't looked back. In addition to producing and preserving as much of their own food by canning, freezing, dehydrating, and freeze-drying their garden harvests, they also operate a you-pick flower farm with different varieties of flowers throughout the year. Their goals are to share their farm with the community and to be as self-sufficient as possible within the boundaries of what is realistic in today's world.

Key Topics

• Gooseberry Bridge Farm
• Staci and Jeremy Hill
• The Preserver's Garden
• Food preservation strategies
• Canning and water bath processing
• Freeze-drying food for long-term storage
• Growing for food security
• Building a year-round pantry
• Preserving tomatoes, peaches, beans, and zucchini
• Family involvement in food production
• Agritourism and farm experiences
• Teaching lost homesteading skills
• Foxfire books and traditional knowledge
• Reducing grocery costs through food production

Key Questions Answered

How did Staci and Jeremy transition from suburbia to farming?

They began with a small raised-bed garden after getting married and gradually expanded their food production over two decades. After moving to an 11-acre property in Missouri, they increased their gardening, added livestock, and eventually turned the farm into their primary source of income through agritourism and value-added products.

What inspired them to focus on food preservation?

As their family grew, they became interested in preserving traditional skills they could pass on to future generations. Each year they learned a new preservation method, eventually mastering canning, dehydrating, freeze-drying, and food storage.

What does a well-stocked pantry look like?

A successful pantry is built around foods a family actually enjoys eating. Rather than preserving what is easiest, they recommend preserving crops you enjoy and grow well. Their pantry includes extensive stores of tomato sauce, salsa, green beans, soups, fruits, and freeze-dried foods.

What crops provide the biggest return for food security?

Their highest-performing crops include tomatoes, bush beans, zucchini, summer squash, and okra. They emphasize growing large quantities and "outplanting failure" rather than constantly battling pests.

Why do they freeze-dry food?

Freeze-drying dramatically increases shelf life, often up to 25 years, while preserving flavor and nutrition. It also expands the range of foods they can store compared to traditional canning.

How do they handle large harvests of tomatoes?

They harvest tomatoes at the blush stage, allow them to ripen indoors, process them in batches, and often freeze excess harvests for winter canning. This approach reduces summer workload and avoids heating the kitchen during hot weather.

Why was The Preserver's Garden written?

A publisher noticed a gap between gardening books and preservation books. The result was a book focused on planning a garden specifically for preservation goals rather than simply dealing with surplus produce after harvest.

How has preserving food impacted their household finances?

Despite having more children and growing teenagers, their grocery expenses have declined over the years while food quality has improved. Producing and preserving food has reduced their dependence on grocery stores.

What preservation failures taught them valuable lessons?

Experiments freeze-drying sweet hot sauce and banana puree resulted in spectacular messes due to sugar expansion during the freeze-drying process. These failures reinforced the importance of testing and learning through experience.

What advice do they give beginners?

Start small. Preserve one thing, grow one crop, and build confidence through small successes. Fear and misinformation often prevent people from getting started.

Episode Highlights

• Staci and Jeremy moved from a suburban cul-de-sac to an 11-acre farm in the Ozarks nearly a decade ago.
• Their farm now supports agritourism, a flower operation, livestock experiences, and food production.
• A surprise harvest of 300–400 pounds of peaches led to a week-long experiment with new preservation recipes.
• Their pantry functions as a personalized grocery store stocked with foods their family regularly eats.
• They grow approximately 100 tomato plants and harvest up to 30–40 pounds of tomatoes per day during peak season.
• Freeze-drying transformed their food preservation capacity and significantly expanded their pantry.
• Their children actively participate in gardening, food preservation, and homesteading skills.
• An Instagram post featuring their pantry went viral and helped inspire the creation of their book.

Calls to Action & Resources

Book: The Preserver's Garden — https://thepreserversgarden.com

Farm Website: Gooseberry Bridge Farm — https://gooseberrybridge.com

Instagram: Gooseberry Bridge Farm — https://www.instagram.com/gooseberrybridgefarm

Recommended Reading: Foxfire Book Series

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/PreserversGarden for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

Join our monthly Seed Chat at SeedChat.org

In This Podcast: In this monthly Seed Chat, Greg Peterson and Bill McDorman explore the global rules governing seed ownership, seed saving, biodiversity, and agricultural policy. The conversation dives into international treaties, plant patenting, farmers’ rights, and the growing tension between the Global North and Global South over control of genetic resources. Bill shares firsthand experiences attending United Nations treaty negotiations and working with Indigenous seed sovereignty issues through Native Seeds/SEARCH. The episode also highlights why everyday gardeners and farmers should become “seed citizens” by saving and sharing locally adapted seeds.

Bill McDorman is a renowned seed saver, educator, and advocate for agricultural biodiversity. He co-founded the Rocky Mountain Seed Alliance and has spent decades teaching gardeners and farmers how to grow, save, and share heirloom seeds. Through workshops, speaking, and mentorship, Bill inspires communities to strengthen local food systems, preserve regional seed diversity, and protect seed sovereignty for future generations.

Key Topics

• Seed libraries and locally adapted seed sharing
• International Treaty on Plant Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture (ITPGRFA)
• UPOV and global plant variety protection laws
• World Trade Organization (WTO) seed policy influence
• Farmers’ rights and seed sovereignty
• Plant patenting and intellectual property in agriculture
• Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD)
• Nagoya Protocol and access-benefit sharing
• Digital Sequence Information (DSI) and genetic ownership
• Native Seeds/SEARCH and Indigenous seed stewardship
• Organic Seed Alliance and seed policy debates
• Global North vs. Global South agricultural power dynamics
• Seed banks and the Multilateral System (MLS)
• The importance of saving open-pollinated seeds
• The future resilience of local food systems

Key Questions Answered

What is the International Treaty on Plant Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture?

The ITPGRFA is a legally binding international treaty created to govern the conservation, sharing, and equitable use of plant genetic resources for food and agriculture. It officially entered into force in 2004 and now includes participation from more than 180 countries.

Why do global seed treaties matter to everyday gardeners and farmers?

These treaties influence who can save seeds, who profits from plant genetics, and how agricultural biodiversity is preserved. The policies affect food security, seed availability, farmer independence, and long-term resilience of local food systems.

What is UPOV and why is it controversial?

UPOV is an international agreement that grants intellectual property protections to plant breeders. Critics argue that newer versions of UPOV weaken farmers’ traditional rights to save and replant seeds while strengthening corporate control over agriculture.

How does the WTO influence seed laws around the world?

According to Bill McDorman, countries seeking participation in global trade systems often adopt UPOV-style protections as part of WTO-related trade expectations, creating pressure on smaller nations to align with industrial seed systems.

What is the Nagoya Protocol?

The Nagoya Protocol is an international agreement designed to ensure fair and equitable sharing of benefits arising from genetic resources. It attempts to address historical exploitation of Indigenous and Global South biodiversity by pharmaceutical and agricultural corporations.

What is Digital Sequence Information (DSI)?

DSI refers to genetic sequencing data derived from crops and plant varieties. A major debate centers around who owns this information and whether communities that stewarded these crops for generations should share in the economic benefits created from their genetic data.

What are farmers’ rights in global seed policy?

Farmers’ rights include the ability to save, use, exchange, and sell farm-saved seed. These rights remain one of the most contested issues in international agricultural negotiations.

Why are seed libraries important?

Seed libraries help preserve locally adapted seed varieties while strengthening regional food resilience. They also create community networks for knowledge sharing and decentralized seed stewardship.

How did Native Seeds/SEARCH navigate Indigenous seed stewardship?

Bill shares stories from his time directing Native Seeds/SEARCH, including working with Zuni and Hopi communities to renegotiate relationships around seed stewardship, naming rights, and seed distribution.

Why does Bill McDorman encourage people to attend UN treaty meetings?

He believes participation in international seed policy discussions is critical for protecting biodiversity and farmers’ rights. Attending these events allows citizens, gardeners, and small farmers to directly engage with global agricultural policy.

Episode Highlights

• Bill discovers a seed library inside a small-town New Mexico library and reflects on the importance of locally adapted seeds.
• Greg and Bill explain how seed laws emerged alongside industrial agriculture and large-scale seed commerce.
• Bill breaks down UPOV, WTO policy, and how plant patenting transformed global agriculture.
• The conversation explores how Indigenous plant genetics were historically extracted and commercialized.
• Bill recounts receiving a cease-and-desist letter regarding Zuni bean varieties while directing Native Seeds/SEARCH.
• A deep discussion unfolds around Digital Sequence Information and the ownership of plant DNA data.
• Bill explains why small farmers across Africa increasingly believe they no longer have the right to save seeds.
• The episode concludes with a call for more “seed citizens” actively saving and sharing seeds locally.

Resources

Resource — Seed Chat Live Events — SeedChat.org

Podcast — Urban Farm Podcast

Organization — UPOV – International Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants

Organization — World Trade Organization (WTO)

Organization — Commission on Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture (CGRFA)

Treaty — International Treaty on Plant Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture (ITPGRFA)

Organization — Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD)

Resource — Nagoya Protocol on Access and Benefit-sharing

Community — Organic Seed Alliance

Organization — Native Seeds/SEARCH

Event — Great American Seed Up — First weekend in November in Phoenix, Arizona

Visit UrbanFarm.org/987 for the show notes and links on this episode!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

Raw Nutrition, Pawtrition, and the Future of Canine Health

In this episode, Greg speaks with entrepreneur and canine nutrition educator Ryan Cole about the hidden problems with highly processed dog food and the growing movement toward raw feeding for dogs. Ryan shares the personal story that launched his mission after rescuing a pit bull with severe allergies and discovering how dramatically diet impacted the dog’s health and quality of life.

The conversation explores kibble manufacturing, common ingredient red flags, raw feeding basics, portion control, canine obesity, treats, digestive health, and how personalized nutrition plans can improve a dog’s longevity. Ryan also introduces Pawtrition, an AI-powered dog meal planning platform designed to help dog owners create customized raw feeding plans based on breed, age, weight, and health goals.

Our Guest: Ryan Cole is an entrepreneur and founder of Lineage Premier, a canine-focused health and nutrition company dedicated to empowering dog parents with better feeding guidance and nutrition education. He is also the creator of Pawtrition, a Lineage Premier product and AI-powered dog meal planning app designed to help pet owners feed smarter with personalized nutrition plans tailored to each dog's breed, age, weight, and health goals. Through his work, Ryan bridges practical pet care with education, helping dog parents move beyond the guesswork toward informed decisions that support long-term canine health and vitality.

Key Topics & Entities

• Ryan Cole
• Pawtrition
• Lineage Premier
• Raw feeding for dogs
• Highly processed kibble and canine health
• Food allergies in dogs
• Pit bull rescue stories
• Canine nutrition education
• Personalized dog meal planning
• Bioavailable nutrients in raw diets
• Portion control and canine obesity
• Healthy dog treats and frozen fruit snacks
• Breed-specific nutrition
• Digestive health and stool quality in dogs

Key Questions

What inspired Ryan Cole to focus on canine nutrition?

Ryan’s journey began after rescuing a pit bull named Pops who suffered from severe allergic reactions to processed foods, shampoos, and synthetic materials. After switching to boiled chicken and rice and later researching raw feeding, Ryan saw dramatic health improvements that inspired him to dedicate his career to canine nutrition education.

Why does Ryan believe highly processed kibble is problematic?

Ryan explains that many kibble products are made from low-quality byproducts and heavily processed ingredients that are cooked at high temperatures, stripping away natural nutrients. Manufacturers then spray synthetic nutrients and fats onto the kibble after processing to improve flavor and nutritional labeling.

What ingredients should dog owners watch for on labels?

Ryan recommends paying close attention to the word “crude” on ingredient labels, especially crude proteins and crude fats. He also advises dog owners to read manufacturing warnings about cross-contamination from facilities processing allergens like nuts and grains.

What does a healthy raw diet for dogs look like?

A balanced raw diet includes raw meats, organ meats, vegetables, fruits, healthy fats, and oils. Ryan shares examples like chicken leg quarters, ground beef, chicken gizzards, green beans, duck eggs, and Alaskan fish oil.

How does Pawtrition help dog owners?

Pawtrition generates personalized 30-day meal plans based on a dog’s breed, age, weight, activity level, and health goals. The platform also includes budgeting tools, nutrition tracking, shopping assistance, veterinary checklists, and educational resources.

Are most dogs overfed or underfed?

Ryan says the bigger issue is often calorie-dense kibble rather than meal quantity itself. Because processed food is highly concentrated and less nutritionally bioavailable, dogs can gain weight even when owners believe they are feeding appropriate portions.

What are signs a dog’s diet may not be working?

Common warning signs include chronic itching, dull coats, digestive problems, inconsistent stool quality, scooting behavior, and excessive shedding or inflammation.

Should dog owners rotate proteins and foods?

Ryan recommends dietary variety whenever possible to improve nutrient diversity and prevent nutritional imbalances. Different proteins and vegetables offer different bioavailable nutrients and health benefits.

What treats does Ryan recommend?

Ryan prefers whole-food treats like frozen watermelon, blueberries, strawberries, and homemade fruit popsicles mixed with healthy fish oils instead of processed commercial treats.

What drives Ryan’s work today?

Ryan credits his mother’s work ethic and his lifelong passion for helping animals and people. He views Pawtrition and Lineage Premier as community-driven educational tools rather than simply businesses.

Episode Highlights

• Ryan rescued his first pit bull, Pops, at age 17 after his father passed away.
• Pops suffered severe reactions to processed foods and synthetic products before transitioning to a raw diet.
• Ryan explains how kibble manufacturing prioritizes shelf life and profit margins over nutrition quality.
• Greg shares a story about healing a rescued golden retriever through raw feeding after medications failed.
• Pawtrition creates downloadable customized feeding plans for dog owners.
• Ryan discusses why working breeds like heelers should remain lean to protect joints and hips.
• The conversation highlights the importance of observing each individual dog rather than following generic feeding advice.
• Ryan recommends the book The Five People You Meet in Heaven by Mitch Albom for its message about interconnectedness and purpose.

Resources

• Personalized canine meal planning — Pawtrition
• Raw feeding education and breed resources — Lineage Premier
• Follow Ryan Cole on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube under “Lineage Premier”

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/Pawtrition for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg or choose one of the senior members of our Urban Farm team to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

A Rosie On The House Replay

In this episode Romey Romero from Rosie on the House and Farmer Greg sit down with Ashley McClure and Scott Brown of Phoenix Organic Feed to talk about raising backyard chickens in the summer heat. The conversation explores heat management, predator protection, organic feed, egg production, breed selection, and why chickens are one of the best tools for local food resilience. Ashley and Scott also share the grassroots story behind Phoenix Organic Feed and how a small community feed order turned into a regional network serving thousands of chicken keepers across metro Phoenix and the Verde Valley.

Key Topics

• Backyard chickens in desert climates
• Organic chicken feed and local food resilience
• Heat management for chickens
• Predator-proof chicken coops
• Egg production and breed selection
• Chickens as composters and pest control
• Food security through backyard farming
• Phoenix Organic Feed community distribution model
• Rhode Island Red chickens
• Leghorn chickens
• Raising meat birds vs. egg layers
• Electrolytes and hydration for poultry
• Victory Gardens and modern homesteading

Key Questions Answered

Why should people keep chickens in their backyard?

Chickens provide eggs, protein, compost, pest control, entertainment, and a stronger connection to food production. The guests describe chickens as a practical step toward food resilience and self-sufficiency.

Can chickens survive desert heat?

Yes. Chickens can adapt to desert climates when they have shade, cool water, ventilation, electrolyte support, and ways to cool their feet. Breed selection also matters because heavier feathered birds struggle more in extreme heat.

What are the biggest mistakes new chicken keepers make?

Underestimating heat stress, failing to predator-proof coops, and not planning for chick care are major mistakes. Baby chicks require supplemental heat, proper feed, protection, and clean water.

How do chickens help gardens and homesteads?

Chickens convert kitchen scraps, weeds, and insects into manure that improves soil fertility. They also reduce pests like scorpions and ticks while contributing to compost systems.

What breeds are best for egg production?

Leghorns and Rhode Island Reds are highlighted as strong egg producers, capable of laying close to 300 eggs per year under ideal conditions.

Do colorful eggs taste different?

No. The shell color does not change flavor, but presentation matters. Dark brown, blue, and green eggs create visual appeal and help backyard egg sellers stand out.

Why start Phoenix Organic Feed?

Scott Brown started the business after struggling to find affordable organic chicken feed in Phoenix. What began as a one-ton community order through a local permaculture network eventually grew into a distribution network serving over 3,000 subscribers.

What makes backyard eggs different from store-bought eggs?

The guests explain that backyard eggs often have darker orange yolks, fresher flavor, and come from chickens raised on higher quality feed and forage.

Episode Highlights

• Chickens help control scorpions, ticks, and garden pests naturally.
• Roosters protect hens from predators and help maintain flock harmony.
• Chickens cool themselves through their feet, making shallow water trays effective in desert heat.
• Frozen water bottles, fans, and swamp coolers can save chickens during extreme Arizona summers.
• Egg production drops during stress, overcrowding, and intense heat.
• Older hens often become the best foragers and flock teachers.
• Chickens naturally roost high off the ground to avoid predators.
• Backyard eggs with colorful shells and rich orange yolks can command premium prices.

Resources

Ashley & Scott's Website — Phoenix Organic Feed Website

Visit www.UrbanFarm.org/985 for the show notes and links on this episode!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg, Janis or Ray to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this Episode: Abey Rae Scaglione has cultivated a deep understanding of the need for animals in our food system, layered upon her decades-long fascination with nutrition and self-sufficiency. After earning her degree in psychology, Abey worked as Pilates instructor in Los Angeles, eventually owning her own studio. Long interested in where our food comes from, it was in Northern California that she fell in love with growing vegetables and raising chickens. In 2021, Abey moved with her husband and two sons to Ruckle Heritage Farm on Salt Spring Island in British Columbia, Canada, where they raise sheep, cattle, turkeys and chickens. As a former vegetarian turned rancher, she has an incredibly intimate relationship with the complex realities of raising animals for food and the deep conviction that more can be done for animal welfare by supporting good farming practices, than by rejecting all animal agriculture.

Our Guest: Abey Rae Scaglione has cultivated a deep understanding of the need for animals in our food system, layered upon her decades-long fascination with nutrition and self-sufficiency. After earning her degree in psychology, Abey worked as Pilates instructor in Los Angeles, eventually owning her own studio. Long interested in where our food comes from, it was in Northern California that she fell in love with growing vegetables and raising chickens. In 2021, Abey moved with her husband and two sons to Ruckle Heritage Farm on Salt Spring Island in British Columbia, Canada, where they raise sheep, cattle, turkeys and chickens. As a former vegetarian turned rancher, she has an incredibly intimate relationship with the complex realities of raising animals for food and the deep conviction that more can be done for animal welfare by supporting good farming practices, than by rejecting all animal agriculture.

Key Topics

• Abey Rae Scaglione
• Ruckle Heritage Farm
• Regenerative agriculture
• Local food systems
• Animal welfare in agriculture
• From vegetarianism to ranching
• Self-sufficiency and homesteading
• Raising sheep, cattle, turkeys, and chickens
• Nutrition and food sourcing
• Small-scale farming realities
• Salt Spring Island farming culture
• Food resilience and sustainability
• Ethical meat production
• Family farming

Key Questions Answered

Why did Abey Rae Scaglione transition from vegetarianism to ranching?

Abey’s evolving understanding of nutrition, ecology, and food systems led her to recognize the important role animals play in regenerative agriculture. Her firsthand experiences growing food and raising animals deepened her perspective on ethical animal stewardship and sustainable farming.

How did her background in psychology and wellness shape her approach to farming?

Her education in psychology and years as a Pilates instructor gave her insight into health, behavior, and holistic wellness. That foundation naturally expanded into curiosity about food quality, nutrition, and self-reliance.

What changed after moving to Salt Spring Island?

Relocating to British Columbia in 2021 allowed Abey and her family to fully immerse themselves in farming life at Ruckle Heritage Farm, where they now raise multiple livestock species and participate directly in building resilient local food systems.

What does Abey believe about animal welfare?

She believes meaningful improvements in animal welfare come from supporting responsible and regenerative farming practices rather than rejecting all forms of animal agriculture.

Why are resilient food systems important?

Localized and regenerative food systems can strengthen communities, improve soil health, reduce dependence on industrial agriculture, and create more transparency between consumers and producers.

Episode Highlights

• Abey shares the surprising path from vegetarianism to regenerative ranching.
• A discussion about why animals are essential to healthy agricultural ecosystems.
• The realities of raising livestock ethically on a family farm.
• Insights into reconnecting consumers with where food actually comes from.
• Reflections on moving from Los Angeles wellness culture to rural farm life.
• Why supporting small farms can directly improve animal welfare outcomes.
• The connection between nutrition, ecology, and resilient communities.

Resources

Abey's Website —  radicalfarmbook.com

Abey's Book Recommendation - Milk Into Cheese, David Asher

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/RadicleFarm for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

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*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

In this episode, Greg Peterson sits down with DePhane Weaver, founding president of the Garden Exchange Stands organization, to explore how neighborhood seed and plant sharing can strengthen local food systems and reconnect communities. Inspired by family traditions of gardening and generosity, DePhane shares how a simple neighborhood exchange evolved into a nonprofit network with hundreds of garden stands across Arizona and beyond. The conversation dives into food sovereignty, community resilience, pollinator support, permaculture principles, and the joy of sharing seeds, plants, tools, and gardening knowledge. DePhane explains how Garden Exchange Stands helps neighbors connect through a global interactive map and volunteer-driven community network. This episode is a powerful reminder that growing food is about more than harvests — it’s about relationships, local resilience, and creating spaces where people can give, learn, and belong.

Our Guest: DePhane is the founding president of the Garden Exchange stands organization, inspired by family tradition of gardening and community service to FE champions, seed and plant sharings as a timeless way to connect neighbors, support wildlife and grow local food. Through a global map of exchange stands, the organization helps communities build gardens and a food sovereignty network.

Key Topics

• Garden Exchange Stands nonprofit
• Community-based seed and plant sharing
• Food sovereignty and local food systems
• Neighborhood garden exchange networks
• Pollinator-friendly gardening
• Permaculture-inspired community design
• Seed saving and seed stewardship
• Free garden exchange stands and seed libraries
• Building resilient neighborhood communities
• Gardening as a tool for connection
• Volunteer-driven nonprofit organizing
• Sharing herbs, cuttings, tools, and garden supplies
• Interactive global garden stand mapping
• Sustainable living and wildlife habitat gardening

Key Questions Answered

What is a Garden Exchange Stand?

A Garden Exchange Stand is a neighborhood sharing station where people exchange seeds, plants, herbs, gardening tools, books, and other garden-related items for free. Some are permanent outdoor structures while others are portable or seasonal.

How did Garden Exchange Stands begin?

The project started organically when DePhane hosted seed and plant exchanges at her home. Leftover plants and supplies were placed near a neighborhood bench for others to take, eventually evolving into a larger community-driven nonprofit network.

Why are garden exchange networks important?

They strengthen local communities, encourage food production, reduce waste, support pollinators, and create opportunities for neighbors to connect through gardening and shared resources.

How do people find exchange stands?

Garden Exchange Stands uses an interactive online map where users can search by city, stand name, or location to find participating stands and seed-sharing sites.

What kinds of items are exchanged?

Participants share seeds, seedlings, herbs, cuttings, tools, gardening books, shade cloth, baskets, aprons, painted rocks, and seasonal harvests.

Can people participate even if they live in an HOA?

Yes. Many participants create small movable stands or seed libraries that fit HOA guidelines while still serving their local community.

How does the organization support community resilience?

The network encourages local food production, seed saving, pollinator habitat creation, and community cooperation — all key components of resilient local food systems.

What role do volunteers play in the organization?

The entire network is volunteer-powered. Volunteers help moderate groups, maintain stands, move plants between locations, host events, and support educational workshops.

Why are herbs recommended for beginner gardeners?

Herbs are inexpensive to grow, easy to maintain, highly productive, and useful for cooking and wellness. DePhane especially recommends rosemary and basil for beginners.

What larger mission drives the organization?

The mission centers on reconnecting people through gardening, sharing abundance, supporting wildlife, and rebuilding a culture of local food production and neighbor-to-neighbor generosity.

Episode Highlights

• DePhane shares how her family’s gardening traditions inspired the creation of Garden Exchange Stands.
• The organization now supports hundreds of exchange locations throughout Arizona and additional stands across the United States.
• Garden stands operate similarly to Little Free Libraries, but for seeds, plants, and gardening supplies.
• Community members help maintain stands by watering plants, tidying displays, and redistributing excess supplies.
• The nonprofit promotes pollinator habitats alongside food production and seed saving.
• A Mother Earth News feature helped expand awareness of the movement into other states.
• Volunteers regularly transport plants and cuttings between cities to support gardeners across the region.
• DePhane explains how gardening creates lasting emotional connections between neighbors and communities.

Resources

Garden Exchange Stands

Arizona Garden Exchange Stands Facebook Group

Seed Library Network

Book Recommendation — The Complete Book of Herbs by Leslie Bremness

Visit www.urbanfarm.org/GardenExhangeStands for the show notes on this episode, and access to our full podcast library!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

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*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

With Host Greg Peterson and Guests Bill McDorman and Rebecca Newburn

Find our monthly Seed Chat at SeedChat.org

In This Podcast: This episode of Seed Chat explores the future of seed sovereignty through two connected lenses: grassroots seed libraries and the global seed banking system. Greg Peterson is joined by Bill McDorman and special guest Rebecca Newburn to examine how communities can steward seeds locally while industrial institutions struggle to preserve crop diversity at scale. Rebecca shares how the seed library movement has grown into a global network and why the next challenge is helping communities “close the loop” by saving and returning seeds. Bill then zooms out to explain the history, promise, and limitations of international seed banks—and why local seed stewardship may be our most resilient path forward.

Key Topics

• Seed Library Network
• Community seed libraries
• Seed saving education
• CGIAR international gene banks
• Global Crop Diversity Trust
• Svalbard Global Seed Vault
• GRIN (Genetic Resources Information Network)
• Regional seed co-ops
• Climate adaptation through seed diversity
• Snake River Seed Cooperative
• Utopian Seed Project

Key Questions Answered

How do seed libraries actually strengthen local food systems?

Seed libraries give communities free access to seeds while rebuilding the habit of growing, saving, and sharing locally adapted crops. Their long-term value is not just seed distribution, it is creating local resilience through community stewardship and regional seed knowledge.

What makes a seed library successful over time?

The strongest seed libraries are sustained by committed people, clear systems, and community participation. Whether run by one passionate organizer or a collective, successful libraries create pathways for education, local seed donations, and long-term stewardship.

What does it mean to “close the loop” in a seed library?

It means moving beyond simply borrowing and planting seeds. A resilient seed library teaches people how to save seeds, clean them, label them, and return them so the system becomes regenerative instead of extractive.

What is CGIAR and why does it matter?

CGIAR is a global agricultural research network that manages 11 major international gene banks holding hundreds of thousands of seed accessions. These collections preserve crop diversity and serve as a global backup for agriculture, but they are increasingly underfunded and difficult to access.

Why are global seed banks under pressure?

Major seed banks face chronic funding shortages, institutional bottlenecks, and climate-related risks. Even the world’s largest backup systems, including Svalbard, are vulnerable to warming temperatures, infrastructure strain, and political instability.

Why is local seed saving becoming more urgent?

As climate disruption, fertilizer shortages, and industrial fragility intensify, communities will need crops adapted to local conditions. Local seed saving builds food security, preserves biodiversity, and gives communities direct control over future growing conditions.

What role do regional seed companies and seed co-ops play?

Regional seed companies and co-ops bridge the gap between grassroots seed libraries and commercial distribution. They grow regionally adapted seed at scale, distribute locally, and help create more durable seed infrastructure.

Why does Bill argue that “nobody’s coming”?

Bill’s central argument is that communities cannot rely solely on governments, institutions, or global systems to protect seed diversity. The responsibility for preserving and adapting seeds increasingly falls to local growers, seed savers, and regional networks.

Episode Highlights

• Rebecca Newburn explains how seed libraries have evolved from a novel idea into a global movement with thousands of community-led seed libraries.
• Seed libraries succeed when they move beyond free seed distribution and teach people how to save and return seeds.
• Rebecca shares new downloadable “zines” designed to help gardeners plant, save, and return seeds with clear instructions.
• Bill outlines how CGIAR’s global gene banks were built to preserve crop diversity but now struggle with access, staffing, and long-term funding.
• The Global Crop Diversity Trust still lacks the endowment needed to sustainably maintain major international seed collections.
• Bill argues that climate resilience depends on getting seed diversity back into the hands of growers, not just preserving it in vaults.
• Regional seed banks and co-ops may offer a more resilient model than centralized institutions alone.
• Collaboration—not competition—is framed as the cultural shift needed to rebuild seed resilience at scale.

Resources

Find out about Seed libraries — Seed Library Network

Monthly Seed chat — Urban Farm Seed Chat

Podcast Archive — Urban Farm Podcast

Newsletter — Seed Library Network Substack

Regional Seed Inspiration — Snake River Seed Cooperative

Regional Seed Inspiration — Utopian Seed Project

Visit UrbanFarm.org/982 for the show notes and links on this episode!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges.

You can chat with Greg to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

This Seed Chat explores the growing consolidation of global seed ownership and the implications of patenting life. Farmer Greg and Bill McDorman dive into the history of seed patent law, the rise of corporate control, and the tension between industrial agriculture and traditional seed saving. They highlight global efforts, especially in Europe, to resist seed patents and protect biodiversity. The episode emphasizes seed saving as both a practical skill and a powerful act of resilience and autonomy.

Key Topics

• Corporate consolidation of global seed ownership
• Seed patenting and intellectual property rights
• Supreme Court case Diamond v. Chakrabarty (1980)
• Plant Variety Protection Act (PVPA)
• Utility patents vs. plant breeder protections
• European coalition: No Patents on Seeds
• Role of NGOs and international advocacy
• Open Source Seed Initiative (OSSI)
• Center for Food Safety legal efforts
• ETC Group and global seed policy research
• Organic Seed Alliance publications
• Seed saving as resistance and resilience
• Genetic diversity and climate adaptation
• Industrial agriculture vs. small-scale seed saving

Key Questions Answered

Who controls the world’s seeds?

A small number of multinational corporations dominate the global seed market, controlling a significant percentage of commercial seed distribution. This concentration is driven by mergers, acquisitions, and patent protections that favor industrial agriculture.

How did seed patenting become legal?

The 1980 Supreme Court ruling in Diamond v. Chakrabarty opened the door for patenting living organisms. This decision enabled utility patents on seeds, allowing companies to claim ownership over genetically modified—and later even conventionally bred—plants.

What was the original compromise to protect seed breeders?

The Plant Variety Protection Act (PVPA) provided a 20-year protection period for breeders while still allowing farmers to save seeds and researchers to use protected varieties. This balance has been eroded by utility patents.

Why are seed patents controversial?

Seed patents restrict farmers from saving seeds and limit other breeders from using patented genetics. This undermines traditional agricultural practices and reduces biodiversity.

What is being done globally to resist seed patents?

Organizations like No Patents on Seeds in Europe mobilize public campaigns, monitor patent filings, and challenge approvals. Coalitions of NGOs are working to influence policy and raise awareness.

What is the Open Source Seed Initiative?

OSSI is a movement that protects seeds from patenting by creating a legal framework that ensures varieties remain freely available for use, breeding, and saving.

Why is seed saving important?

Seed saving preserves genetic diversity, strengthens local food systems, and gives growers autonomy. It’s a foundational practice that has sustained agriculture for over 10,000 years.

Is seed saving difficult?

No—contrary to common belief, seed saving is simple at a small scale. The complexity often associated with it comes from industrial agriculture requirements, not backyard or community gardening.

Episode Highlights

• Global seed ownership is increasingly concentrated among a few corporations.
• The 1980 Supreme Court ruling enabled the patenting of life forms.
• The PVPA once balanced breeder rights with farmer freedoms.
• Utility patents now restrict both seed saving and research.
• European NGOs have mobilized hundreds of thousands against seed patents.
• Seed saving is accessible, resilient, and historically proven.
• Genetic diversity is critical for adapting to climate change.
• Local seed saving builds community and food sovereignty.

Calls to Action & Resources

• Join Live Seed Chats - https://seedchat.org
• Learn about seed freedom advocacy - https://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org
• Explore open-source seeds - https://osseeds.org
• Support legal advocacy - https://www.centerforfoodsafety.org
• No Patents On Seeds - https://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/en
• Organic Seed Alliance - https://seedalliance.org/
• A Guide to Seed Intellectual Property Rights - https://seedalliance.org/publications/a-guide-to-seed-intellectual-property-rights/
• Penn Parmenter - https://www.pennandcordsgarden.com/
• Seed The Untold Story - https://www.seedthemovie.com
• Email Bill at [email protected]

Canada

• National Farmers Union - Save Our Seed - https://www.nfu.ca/learn/save-our-seed/
• Seed Change - https://weseedchange.org/
• etc Group - Research global seed policy — https://www.etcgroup.org

Visit UrbanFarm.org/981 for the show notes and links on this episode!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges. 

You can chat with Greg to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.

A Rosie On The House Replay

This episode explores practical, low-cost strategies for reusing household gray water to irrigate landscapes. Brad Lancaster shares decades of experience designing regenerative water systems in dryland environments, emphasizing simple gravity-fed solutions over complex infrastructure. The conversation highlights how homeowners can dramatically reduce water use by “stacking functions” and capturing water already on-site. By pairing gray water with rainwater harvesting, households can meet most or all of their irrigation needs.

 Brad Lancaster runs a successful permaculture consulting design and education business in Tucson, Arizona. He's focused on integrated and sustainable approaches to landscape design, planning and living. Growing up in a dryland environment, water harvesting has long been one of his specialties and a true passion. He's the author of the Permaculture Bible for Water Harvesting, Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond, Volumes One and Two. And he has just released new color versions, revised and expanded of both of them.

Key Topics

• Gray water (definition and household sources)
• Difference between gray water and black water
• Brad Lancaster (water harvesting expert)
• Rainwater harvesting systems
• Gravity-fed irrigation design
• Soil as a living filtration system
• Mulch basins and infiltration strategies
• Laundry-to-landscape systems
• Outdoor shower gray water reuse
• Water conservation in dryland climates
• Arizona gray water regulations (13 guidelines)
• Soap and detergent impacts (salt vs liquid)
• Planting water before plants (design philosophy)
• Evapotranspiration and passive cooling

Key Questions Answered

What is gray water and how much of household water does it represent?

Gray water is lightly used water from showers, sinks, bathtubs, and washing machines. It represents a significant portion of household water use—nearly equal to outdoor irrigation demand—making it a major opportunity for reuse.

Is gray water safe to use in the landscape?

Yes, when basic guidelines are followed. Avoid toxins, prevent pooling, and distribute water across multiple areas. Soil biology naturally filters the water, making it safe for fruit trees and many landscape plants.

How can homeowners start using gray water cheaply and easily?

Simple systems like redirecting a washing machine hose or using an outdoor shower can send water directly to plants using gravity. No pumps, tanks, or complex filtration systems are needed.

What soaps and products should be used with gray water systems?

Liquid soaps are preferred over powdered detergents because they contain fewer salt-based fillers. Avoid chlorine bleach and opt for hydrogen peroxide alternatives to protect soil health.

Why shouldn’t gray water be stored in tanks?

Stored gray water quickly turns septic due to organic matter, creating odor and health issues. It’s best used immediately by directing it into soil systems.

How does combining gray water and rainwater maximize impact?

Together, they can meet nearly all irrigation needs for a landscape, especially with low-water-use plants. This reduces reliance on municipal water and increases resilience.

What does “plant the water first” mean?

Design the landscape to capture and infiltrate water using basins and contours before planting. This ensures plants receive consistent moisture naturally.

Where should plants be placed in a water-harvesting landscape?

Higher water-use plants should be placed near water sources like roofs or gray water outlets. Trees should be positioned for shade and cooling benefits, especially on east and west sides of buildings.

Episode Highlights

• Gray water is “perennial water”—it flows daily as long as you live in your home
• You’ve already paid for this water—reuse it instead of sending it to the sewer
• A simple laundry system can irrigate multiple trees by rotating a drain hose
• Soil acts as a living sponge and filter, outperforming mechanical systems
• Outdoor showers can double as irrigation systems and cooling zones for animals
• Avoid overcomplication—gravity systems are cheaper, more reliable, and effective
• Capturing both rainwater and gray water can eliminate most irrigation needs
• Water harvesting landscapes create cooler microclimates and support biodiversity

Calls to Action & Resources

Brad Lancaster Resources — https://www.harvestingrainwater.com

YouTube Channel — Search “Brad Lancaster water harvesting”

Books — Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond (Volumes 1 & 2)

Visit www.UrbanFarm.org/980 for the show notes and links on this episode!

Need a little bit of advice or just a feedback on your design for your yard or garden?

The Urban Farm Team is offering consults over the phone or zoom. Get the benefits of a personalized garden and yard space analysis without the cost of trip charges. 

You can chat with Greg, Janis or Ray to get permaculture based feedback.

Click HERE to learn more!

*Disclosure: Some of the links in our podcast show notes and blog posts are affiliate links and if you go through them to make a purchase, we will earn a nominal commission at no cost to you. We offer links to items recommended by our podcast guests and guest writers as a service to our audience and these items are not selected because of the commission we receive from your purchases. We know the decision is yours, and whether you decide to buy something is completely up to you.