What's it like to be an artist right now? And what does the future of music look like? Will it be AI-generated slop or a joyful return to community and creativity?

In this episode of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, Sean Adams speaks to Becky Hawley from the art-pop trio Stealing Sheep.

From the launch of their new label G-IRL (Girl In Real Life) to their reflections on DIY culture, Liverpool’s music scene, and 15 years of creative evolution, this episode is full of inspiring insights about building something real in a digital world. Expect discussion of Daft Punk, community over algorithms, mechanical bulls, offline joy, and what it really means to be a band in 2025.

📌 Key Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Intro & New Album Campaign
• 01:56 – What Will Music Be Like in 2050?
• 04:54 – Joy, Fears, and Creative Challenges
• 07:19 – The Sound of Stealing Sheep: Riding the Bull of Tech
• 10:37 – G-IRL: Launching Their Own Record Label
• 20:33 – Liverpool as Inspiration & Music City
• 25:23 – Album Campaign Concepts & Offline Joy
• 29:18 – Let’s Go! New Single & Album Themes
• 30:59 – Artistic Identity, Collaborations & Creative Growth
• 33:50 – Lessons Learned from 15 Years in Music
• 38:05 – Building Community, Offline Spaces, & Human Connection
• 42:57 – Supporting Grassroots Scenes
• 49:01 – AI, Future Tech & Music’s Utopian Possibilities
• 52:21 – Final Reflections: What Artists Need to Unlearn

Links

• New Single “Let’s Go”
• Watch the Music Video
• Tatty Devine Collab
• Guerrilla Girls

Join the Conversation:

• 🗣 Drowned in Sound Community
• 📩 Email Sean → sean@drownedinsound.org
• 🔵 Follow on Bluesky

About the Guest:

Becky Hawley is one-third of Stealing Sheep, a Liverpool-based band known for their innovative, genre-defying sound. The trio recently launched their own record label, G-IRL (Girl In Real Life), to support their own work and that of other boundary-pushing creatives.

About the Host:

Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, a pioneering music webzine launched in 2000. He also manages artists like Charlotte Church and The Anchoress, and works across campaigns that support independent and ethical approaches to music and media.

A conversation about Fresh Hell, subcultures in nature, and shifting the climate narrative through creativity.

In this episode of the podcast that maps what music will be like in 2050 by meeting cultural changemakers and pioneers, Sean Adams explores how the Fresh Hell zine - a collaboration between creatives from the agency Iris and Purpose Disruptors (download it here) - reframes our relationship with nature through goth culture, beauty, and imagination.

Featuring clips from Freya Beer’s special Gothic Disco radio broadcast recorded at Walthamstow Wetlands (listen to it on Mixcloud here), featuring reflections from Lira Valencia and Chris Packham, which inspired the zine, we explore what happens when goth culture meets the natural world.

This conversation with Purpose Disruptors who run the Agency for Nature & the creators of Fresh Hell zine, examines how creativity can help us move from awe of the natural world to cultural transformation—and what musicians, media, and fans can do to help shift the climate crisis narrative.

Aimee Brewerton – Comms & Engagement Manager at Purpose Disruptors, working across climate-focused storytelling, brand strategy, and cultural transformation.

Nicole Vanner – Designer at Iris, co-creator of Fresh Hell, blending gothic subculture with natural aesthetics in visual communication.

Andrew Hadley – Copywriter at Iris, co-author of Fresh Hell, exploring language that rewilds desire and reframes our connection to nature.

Purpose Disruptors – A UK-based network of 5,000+ creative professionals transforming the advertising industry to align with climate goals and societal well-being.

Iris – A global creative agency known for working with progressive brands and championing purpose-driven campaigns.

Agency for Nature – A project platform by Purpose Disruptors that reimagines communications through a regenerative, nature-first lens — including campaigns like Fresh Hell.

Episode Summary & Timestamps:

• 00:00 Introduction: Can Music Change the Climate Conversation?
• 00:31 Exploring the Goths in Nature Project
• 01:23 Meeting the Change Makers
• 04:20 Chris Packham's Punk and Nature Connection
• 06:52 The Future of Our Planet in 2050
• 11:27 Purpose Disruptors: Changing the Advertising Narrative
• 14:17 Creating the Goths in Nature Magazine
• 25:09 The Role of Nature in Mental Health
• 30:01 Spotting the Moor Hen
• 30:52 Goth Music and Personal Favorites
• 31:20 From Radio Show to Zine
• 32:44 Chris Packham's Contribution
• 35:04 Celebrating Nature and Subculture
• 38:49 Nature as a Client
• 40:00 Collaborative Efforts and Creative Freedom
• 48:01 Impact and Mindset Shift
• 58:39 Future Hopes and Accountability
• 01:08:32 Final Thoughts and Call to Action
  

Featured Links & Resources:

• Fresh Hell Zine
• Purpose Disruptors
• Freya Beer’s Gothic Disco
• Lira Valencia (Instagram)
• Bird Nerdeem (Instagram)
• Freya Beer (Instagram)
• Agency for Nature
• Walthamstow Wetlands
• Lawyers for Nature
• Earth Percent
• Creatives for Climate
• Good Life 2030 short film

Songs Mentioned:

• Something to Remember Me By – The Horrors
• This Corrosion – Sisters of Mercy
• Soundtrack to previous episodes by Sound Mirror now available on Bandcamp

Join the Conversation:

• Drowned in Sound Community
• Email: sean@drownedinsound.org
• Follow on Bluesky

Upgrade to support my work:

• Subscribe to the Drowned in Sound newsletter

Drowned in Sound founder and DiS podcast host, Sean Adams answers your questions. Send Qs for future episodes to sean@drownedinsound.org.

Links mentioned in this episode

• Article: Cafe Oto at Oscars - The Guardian
• Artist Recommendation: Nina Versyp
• Artist Recommendation: TTSSFU
• Artist Recommendation: Maella 
• Video: Apple on Dolby Atmos
• Ticket App: Dice
• Link: Tim Burgess listening party
• Article: Bjork immersive album Bowers + Wilkins 
• Drink: Icelandic drink Black Death
• Venue Recommendation: Trades Club in Hebden Bridge

Music by Sound Mirror, available on Bandcamp here: https://sound-mirror.bandcamp.com/album/lake-wind-water-mountain

Your Questions:

Alex Lee Thompson: Are ”scenes” over? Unpack that question as you like

Simon Marshall: After the excellent live bands to look out for article, sponsored by Seetickets, I would be interested in your views on the ticket selling part of the music industry - as a music consumer the DICE app was and is a revelation, what is your experience, and what is the best place to buy to support artists and venues? 

Ear Protect Req: What three bands or artists should we be checking out live?

Soundmirrorworld: Will the Atmos, immersive audio bubble burst? Or keep going ’til we’re full frontal?

Alex Botten: What do you think about the hoards of zombie cover bands eating up local venues. Are they helping or hurting the scene? (I believe profoundly hurting)

Eric Weiner: Would love to hear your thoughts on the listening party. Are they ever any good? What’s the perfect album release party?

Grimes quote in full: Honestly the thing I like most about k pop is its an actual scene - reminds me Canadian punk scenes or the indie scene  back in the day where like if your integrated enough there's like a constant feed of beauty with sort of known rituals, built in community, and like a collective excitement that is contagious and life affirming. I see how music scenes function effectively as a quasi religious institutions in a secular society. The extreme corporatization of music followed by Covid was very culturally harmful imo cuz a healthy modern music scene is actually a functional religious replacement - if one assumes the mind is better served by access to a healthy community that produces art, has events, shared morality and values, messiahs haha etc. Techno and emo rap similarly ensnared me over the last decade to an extent but they seem less "all ages"

Why does gender bias still dominate radio airplay? And how did one data report force the industry to face its inequalities?

In this episode of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, Sean Adams talks to Linda Coogan Byrne, activist and music consultant behind the Why Not Her? campaign.

Her reports have exposed gender and racial disparities in radio airplay, driving real industry change.

This conversation reveals how data is power or as Linda puts it,  “the data validates lived experiences.”

00:00 – Introduction: How One Report Changed Music
01:45 – Meet Linda Coogan Byrne & Her Data Reports
04:30 – The Shocking Gender Disparity in Radio
07:00 – Industry Reactions: Denial, Excuses & Pushback
11:00 – Thin Lizzy, Protest Billboards & Music Activism
15:30 – Has the Industry Improved or Is It Lip Service?
21:00 – Can Music Ever Be Equal?
30:00 – Why Not Everyone Can Be an Activist
38:00 – What Needs to Change for Lasting Equality?
45:00 – How Data Holds Power to Account
50:00 – Final Thoughts & Actionable Takeaways

Links

Why Not Her? Reports → https://whynother.eu/data-reports
Gender Bias in UK Radio – The Guardian → https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/21/female-british-artists-underrepresented-on-uk-radio-survey-finds
Book More Women (Festival Representation) → https://www.instagram.com/bookmorewomen/
Activist Recommendations:

• Mona Eltahawy → https://www.instagram.com/monaeltahawy
• Emma Dabiri - Don’t Touch My Hair → https://uk.bookshop.org/a/14603/9780141986289
• Mary Beard - Women & Power → https://uk.bookshop.org/a/14603/9781788160612
• Ijeoma Oluo - Mediocre → https://uk.bookshop.org/a/14603/9781529353839
• Check My Ads (Ad Funding & Misinformation) → https://checkmyads.org/

🗣 Discuss this episode over on the Drowned in Sound Community → https://community.drownedinsound.com/
📩 Email Sean → sean@drownedinsound.org
🔵 Follow on Bluesky → https://bsky.app/profile/drownedinsound.bsky.social
📩 Get the DiS Newsletter → https://drownedinsound.org

ABOUT THE GUEST

Linda Coogan Byrne is a music industry consultant, publicist, and activist known for her gender & racial disparity data reports. She is the CEO of Good Seed PR and founder of Why Not Her?, a campaign pushing for cultural change in music. Her work has influenced radio airplay, festival bookings, and policy decisions. She has been named among the Top 100 Most Influential Women in Ireland, inducted into the Music Week Hall of Honour, and recognized by IMPALA as a Top 20 Woman in Music Activism.

ABOUT THE HOST

Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, a pioneering music webzine launched in 2000. Beyond editorial work, he manages artists like Charlotte Church and The Anchoress, operates the DiS independent record label, and contributes to strategic music industry and political advocacy projects. His passion lies in championing diverse music scenes and supporting artists worldwide.

What makes a great music city? How do governments, venues, and fans keep local music scenes alive? And why is music still not treated as an essential part of a city’s economy?

In this episode of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, Sean Adams speaks with Shain Shapiro, founder of Sound Diplomacy and a leading advocate for integrating music into urban policy. Shain has advised cities and governments worldwide on how to invest in music, build better infrastructure, and ensure that artists and venues don’t just survive but thrive.

The future of music scenes isn’t just about artists - it’s about infrastructure, investment, and policy. Without real change, we risk losing the cultural spaces that make music thrive.

Topics Covered:

The future of music cities: Why local scenes are vital and how they can be protected

Music as an economic and public good: Why governments should treat music like any other essential sector

Emerging music markets: Where the global music hotspots of the future might be

Live Nation: How monopolies shape local music ecosystems

The importance of local media and community spaces in sustaining music scenes

How cities can future-proof music amid climate, economic, and technological shifts

Shain Shapiro explains: “We don’t make data-driven decisions about music the way we do about transit, healthcare, or housing, yet music is an essential part of a city’s fabric.”

Episode Highlights & Timestamps:

00:00 – Introduction: Can We Save Our Music Scenes?

01:04 – The Future of Music: What Will 2050 Sound Like?

02:33 – The Big Challenges Facing the Music Industry

04:44 – Music as an Economic & Public Good: Why Governments Should Care

09:11 – Shain’s Journey: From Record Shops to Global Music Policy

14:08 – Music Cities: How Governments Can Invest in Local Scenes

19:51 – Global Music Growth: Why Africa & Southeast Asia Are the Future

28:25 – Community & Local Government’s Role in Music Sustainability

35:50 – The Live Nation Monopoly, Local Media, & How Cities Can Push Back

40:00 – Final Thoughts: What Needs to Change & What Fans Can Do

Further Reading & Resources:

Sound Diplomacy – Leading global consultancy on music and city planning

Making Places Better Newsletter – Shain Shapiro’s insights on improving urban spaces through music and culture

Music Venue Trust – Protecting grassroots venues

Cardiff Music Strategy – A model for city-led music investment

Fonds de la Musique Canada – Canada’s funding model for music exports

Live DMA – European network for live music venues

Join the discussion on the Drowned in Sound Community, message me on Bluesky, or email me at sean@drownedinsound.org.

Get More Music Insights – Subscribe to the Drowned in Sound Newsletter for deep dives into the future of music.

About the Host:

Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, established in 2000 as a pioneering music webzine. Beyond his editorial work, Sean manages artists such as Charlotte Church and The Anchoress, operates the DiS independent record label, and contributes to strategic communications for music initiatives like Music Venue Trust. His passion lies in championing diverse music scenes and supporting artists across genres.

About the Guest:

Shain Shapiro, PhD is the founder and executive chairman of Sound Diplomacy, the leading global consultancy on music and city planning. He also serves as the executive director of the not-for-profit Center for Music Ecosystems. Shain has authored This Must Be The Place: How Music Can Make Your City Better, exploring the intersection of music and urban development. His work has influenced over 130 cities worldwide to invest in music and culture, redefining the value of music in urban settings.

Music has long been a force for change but as extreme weather disrupts events and the industry grapples with its own environmental footprint, can music be a meaningful part of the climate justice movement?

In episode 2 of season 3 of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, Sean Adams speaks with Frances Fox, founder of Climate Live and a leader in the UK’s youth climate strikes.

Frances shares her journey from music fan to activist, why festivals are powerful spaces for engagement, and how the music industry can move beyond greenwashing to drive real action.

This episode explores:

Why festivals are at risk from the climate crisis

How music fans can help shape the climate conversation

The role of artists, venues & labels in pushing for a sustainable future

The reality of music’s carbon footprint and what needs to change

The Solar-Powered Pink Bus—and why Climate Live is taking a message of climate justice straight to festival crowds whilst applying glitter and temporary tattoos

From touring impacts to activism strategies, this episode breaks down the intersection of music and climate justice, offering real insights into what fans, artists, and the industry can do next.

“Engaging the unengaged is my jam—when you meet people where they're at, like at a festival, it's very chill.”

– Frances Fox

Episode Highlights:

00:00 – Introduction: Can Music Be a Force for Climate Justice?05:00 – Frances Fox’s Journey: From Festival-Goer to Climate Activist09:20 – Festivals & Climate Change: How Extreme Weather Is Reshaping Live Music15:40 – Touring, Vinyl & Streaming: The Hidden Environmental Cost of Music22:00 – The Solar-Powered Pink Bus: Taking Climate Conversations to Festivals30:00 – Roles in the Resistance: How Fans & Artists Can Push for Industry Change40:00 – Call to Action: What’s Next & How Listeners Can Get Involved

Further Reading & Resources:

Climate Live – Join the movement and apply to perform

Fridays for Future – Global climate strike movement

Choked Up – Campaigning for air quality in marginalized communities

Disha Ravi – Indian climate activist's Wiki

Roles in the Resistance Poster – Find your place in climate activism

Julie's Bicycle – Sustainability in the creative arts

Tori Tsui – Climate activist and author of It's Not Just You

Dominique Palmer – Climate activist and speaker

Music Declares Emergency – Musicians demanding climate action

Music Venue Trust – Protecting grassroots music venues

Safe Gigs for Women – Creating safer environments for women at gigs

Teach The Future - teachthefuture.uk

Rozzi - Artist who wrote a song about LA fires

Stop Rosebank – Campaign against new oil fields

Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty – Ending fossil fuel expansion

EarthPercent – Brian Eno’s initiative for climate funding

Make My Money Matter – How your bank funds fossil fuels

Rainforest Foundation UK – Protecting the Congo Basin

Reverb – Eco-friendly music tours

Massive Attack's Climate Initiatives – Band's efforts for sustainable festivals

📩 Get More Music Insights – Subscribe to the Drowned in Sound Newsletter for deep dives into the future of music: http://drownedinsound.org

🎵 Music by SoundMirror

Why This Matters:

Festivals are already being disrupted—Boardmasters, Standon Calling, and others have faced cancellations due to extreme weather, and independent festivals may not survive rising insurance costs.

The music industry still relies on fossil fuels—From plastic-heavy vinyl production to major labels backed by oil & gas investments, there’s a deeper connection than many realise.

Musicians & fans have power—From sustainable touring to rethinking sponsorships, music can lead the way—but only if more people demand change.

From grassroots venues and youth music programs to Mercury Prize winners, early support shapes who gets to make music—and who doesn’t. But is access to music a right or a privilege?

Music should be for everyone - but is it becoming a luxury only the privileged can afford?

Episode one of season 3 of the DiS podcast, explores how Youth Music -a UK charity funding grassroots projects - is fighting to create fairer opportunities for young musicians facing financial, social, and industry barriers.

In this episode of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, Sean Adams speaks with Matt Griffiths, CEO of Youth Music, about hidden inequalities in the music industry and the work being done to create opportunities for the next generation of musicians.

From youth-led projects and grassroots funding to the systemic barriers keeping working-class musicians out, this episode explores how music’s future can be more inclusive, diverse, and fair.

This episode also features Ezra Collective’s Mercury Prize-winning speech, where they credit their success to the support they received early on:

“This is not just Ezra Collective’s moment, this is a moment for every single organisation that’s championing young people making music.”

Read the full speech here:The Line of Best Fit

The Drowned in Sound Podcast maps the future of music and explores what's happening in the industry right now, with a strong moral compass. It connects music, culture, and ethics, offering deep dives into the issues shaping the way we create, consume, and sustain music.

Why This Matters:

Music has the power to change lives - but only if everyone has the chance to participate. Rising costs, funding cuts, and industry gatekeeping are making it harder than ever for working-class musicians to break through. In this episode, we explore what’s at stake, what’s changing, and how we can fight for a better future in music.

Topics Covered:

• Why music is increasingly a career for the privileged
• From youth projects to Mercury Prizes: why access matters
• How the industry is shutting out working-class talent
• The critical role of Youth Music in opening doors
• The funding crisis: why 25% of grassroots projects are at risk
• “It’s not a pipeline, it’s flight pathways” – how opportunity shapes careers
• What real change looks like - and how to make it happen

Further Reading:

• Youth Music – Find out more and get involved: https://youthmusic.org.uk/
• "I Will Forever Remain Faithful" Essay – Read more: Oxford American
• Drowned in Sound Newsletter – Subscribe for music insights: http://drownedinsound.org

Episode Timestamps:

• 00:00 Introduction: Is Music Becoming a Privilege?
• 01:15 Why Youth Music Exists & What It Does
• 04:30 How the Industry Is Failing Young Artists
• 07:50 What Happens When You Can’t Afford to Make Music?
• 11:10 From Youth Projects to the Mercury Prize – Success Stories
• 14:40 The Funding Crisis: What’s At Risk?
• 18:20 How We Ensure Music’s Future Is For Everyone
• 21:30 Ezra Collective’s Speech & the Power of Community
• 40:00 Final Thoughts & Call to Action

Join the Conversation:

• Who really gets a chance to make music today? Join the discussion on the Drowned in Sound forum or leave a review with your thoughts.
• Support Youth Music – Help fund grassroots music projects: https://youthmusic.org.uk/
• Get More Music Insights – Subscribe to the Drowned in Sound Newsletter for in-depth analysis on the future of music: http://drownedinsound.org

How will music survive until 2050? Will streaming monopolies and economic pressures lead to music’s decline, or can we build a fairer, more sustainable future?

In this season three prologue of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, host Sean Adams (founder of Drowned in Sound) reflects on his lifelong love of music, the systemic challenges facing artists, and what the next 25 years could mean for independent musicians, grassroots venues, and the future of the industry.

In this series, expect big questions, deep dives, and conversations with artists, industry leaders, and changemakers who are shaping what comes next.

Drowned in Sound’s podcast is about a life built around music—but also how music shapes culture, communities, and change.

Topics in this episode:

Why grassroots venues are struggling

How streaming giants control music discovery

The economic realities of being an artist today

Lessons from past music movements and how they shaped the industry

Why music’s future depends on the choices we make now

🎵 Music by Sound Mirror – https://www.soundmirror.co.uk/

📩 Subscribe to the Drowned in Sound newsletter: http://drownedinsound.org

00:00 Introduction: The Future of Music in 2050

00:25 Personal Journey with Music

01:45 Climate Activism & Music’s Role in Change

02:20 Challenges Facing Artists & the Music Industry

03:34 Streaming, Labels & Who Holds the Power

06:13 Economic Disparities & the Struggles of Independent Artists

07:36 The Importance of Community in Music

10:46 Conclusion: The Power & Potential of Music

What do you think the future of music looks like?What challenges should the industry fix first?

💬 Leave a review on your podcast app.

🔔 Follow, rate & subscribe to never miss an episode.

This year marks 25 years since Drowned in Sound launched, and rather than obsessing about the past, we will be gazing into the future, trying to work out what music will be like in 2050.

In this prologue episode, Sean Adams, the founder of Drowned in Sound, reflects a little bit on his 25-year journey and examines the current challenges facing music, from economic barriers to the impact of technology and AI. He discusses the importance of grassroots venues, the role of music in our lives, and the potential for both dystopian and utopian futures. Along the way, he plans on speaking with industry experts, musicians, and pioneers to uncover insights and envision solutions for a sustainable and vibrant music ecosystem. Join this open research project to explore how we can shape a better future for music.

This was an unscripted ramble, so you can read a little more in our recent newsletter.00:00 Introduction: The Big Question for 202500:35 Reflecting on 25 Years of Drowned in Sound02:07 Challenges Facing the Music Industry04:22 Exploring Solutions and Innovations06:53 The Future of Music: Utopia or Dystopia?08:36 Join the Journey: Open Research Project

In part two of this Q&A experiment, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams delves into various topics, including the process of discovering new music, the complexities of the music industry, and nostalgic reflections on MySpace and defunct London music venues.

He also touches on the importance of human connection in music curation, potential improvements for music streaming platforms, and the socio-political challenges affecting the UK's music industry post-Brexit. Additionally, Sean reflects on memorable interviews.

Thank you to everyone for your questions, please submit any for the next edition to sean@drownedinsound.org and be sure to subscribe to the newsletter at drownedinsound.org

To mark Drowned in Sound's 24th anniversary and before we begin a new season of the podcast, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams answers your questions.

Here are some links related to topics covered in the Q&A in case you'd like more context.

• Listen to: Choose a Bright Morning by Jeniferever on Bandcamp
• Read: Wendy Roby's brilliant review of Plastic Beach by Gorillaz
• Listen to: Mystery Jets featuring Laura Marling
• Read: Mike Diver's 2005 interview with Saul Williams
• Read: DiScover Santigold

Questions for this episode submitted by our social media followers and over on the Drowned in Sound forums:

Sweetsonix on Twitter: A nice easy one. How do we return respect to, and appreciation of, the arts?

Anthony Gibbons who wrote for DiS in the early days: I've had my fair share of interviewing gaffes in my time, so what is the most cringeworthy question you've asked an interviewee and what was their response? 

Body in the Thames: If you had to do it all over again, what one thing would you change?

My Yada on DiS forums: What was the first review on the site?

Drastic Measures: Were you aware that Drowned rhymed with Sound when you came up with the name, or was it just a happy coincidence?

Icarus Smicarus: If you could be a DiS album review, which DiS album review would you be?

Jamie Cameron: What happened to Jeniferever?

Rose Wiles: Favourite gig at Verdis?!

Karl Hamilton: Why weren't Microdisney massive?

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