This is David Pierce, editor-at-large at The Verge. Nilay is off this week for a much-deserved break. So I’m filling in for him, and the Decoder team thought this would be a good opportunity to switch gears a little bit from the political apocalypse beat and talk about something completely different. So today we’re diving into the video game industry and discussing a particular set of very thorny problems facing Microsoft and its Xbox division.

I invited Ash Parrish, The Verge’s video game reporter, to discuss the issues facing Xbox, Microsoft’s big ambitions with its Game Pass subscription service, and why the game industry hasn’t had its Netflix or Spotify moment yet.

Links: 

• Xbox continues its push beyond consoles with new ad campaign | Verge
• The next Xbox is going to be very different | Verge
• 2025 looks like a great year for Xbox | Verge
• Microsoft prepares to take Xbox everywhere | Verge
• Microsoft and Google are fighting over the future of Xbox | Verge
• Microsoft was the No.1 games publisher in the world last month | VGC
• Xbox games in Game Pass ‘can lose 80% of premium sales’ | VGC
• Phil Spencer: No ‘red lines’ over Xbox games coming to Switch, PlayStation | Eurogamer
• Microsoft’s Xbox turmoil isn’t slowing down | Verge
• Microsoft says Game Pass is profitable as subscription growth slows | Verge

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The First Amendment, protecting free speech and free media, is a pillar of US law. It is, famously, the first one. We don’t usually tolerate government interference with speech.

So it’s been disconcerting these first few weeks of the second Trump administration to realize suddenly, there’s a nonzero chance the government will punish our work. FCC Chairman Brendan Carr is absolutely determined to turn all that talk about the media being the enemy of the people into concrete legal action — incredibly serious, unprecedented attacks on free speech.

Links: 

• Carr’s emerging agenda and its dangerous effects | Tech Policy Press
• Trump’s MAGA enforcer is having ‘the time of his life’ | The Daily Beast
• FCC to investigate Comcast for having DEI programs | The Verge
• Trump amends CBS ’60 Minutes’ lawsuit & demands $20 billion | LA Times
• No Apology Over Trump Lawsuit, ‘60 Minutes’ Top Producer Says | New York Times
• The FCC is investigating NPR and PBS | The Verge
• ABC News to pay $15 million to settle Trump defamation suit | Wall Street Journal
• Top Trump donor wants SCOTUS to reverse press protection | The New Republic

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Senator Ron Wyden, a democrat and the senior senator from Oregon. He’s been in the Senate for almost 30 years, which makes him one of longest serving members of the institution. We scheduled this interview with Senator Wyden a while ago — he’s got a new book out called “It Takes Chutzpah: How to Fight Fearlessly for Progressive Change.” 

But recent events made it vastly more important to talk about the state of our federal government – and specifically, what Elon Musk and DOGE are doing as they seize power in various federal agencies. So right up front and very bluntly, I wanted to ask Wyden: What is even going on? And can even he and his fellow senators keep up with it?

Links: 

• It Takes Chutzpah | Hachette Book Group
• DOGE wreaked havoc on the government in just one week | Verge
• “For all practical purposes, I’d call that a coup.” | Verge
• Elon Musk’s presidency is just getting started | Decoder
• Elon Musk’s computer coup | Vergecast
• Can anyone stop President Musk? | Verge
• Demand for GAO to investigate what Elon is doing at Treasury [PDF]
• Senator Has Dire Warning About Letting Elon Musk Run Wild | New Republic
• “Trump and Bessent are asking you not to believe what’s playing out right in front of your eyes.” | Wyden (Bluesky)
• “My message to Musk is simple: get your hands off our money and get the hell out.” Wyden (Bluesky)

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re discussing a very big problem with extremely far-reaching consequences: Do we still have a functional federal government here in the United States? And how much of it has been handed entirely to Elon Musk? 

If you’ve been following the news, you know there’s a lot here that’s unfolding very fast, but I wanted to know how all these changes are affecting the people who’ve so far been the most newly supportive of Trump because they have the most to lose – the money, the billionaires. So I invited New York Times reporter Teddy Schleiffer, who’s been covering this closely every day since the inauguration, on the show to help break it down.

Links: 

• Inside Musk's aggressive incursion into the federal government | NYT
• ‘The biggest heist in American history’: DC is just waking up to Musk’s takeover | Verge
• ‘Scared and betrayed’ — workers are reeling from chaos at federal agencies | Verge
• Treasury Department sued over DOGE takeover | Verge
• Can anyone stop President Musk? | Verge
• Elon Musk’s team one has access to Treasury’s payments system | NYT
• Elon Musk’s bureaucratic coup | Atlantic
• Trump: Elon Musk won't do anything 'without our approval' | NBC News
• The young, inexperienced engineers aiding Musk’s government takeover | Wired
• USDS head Mina Hsiang wants big tech to help fix government (2023) | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andy Hunter is the CEO of Bookshop.org, a website he launched in 2020 that lets local bookshops sell all over the country. He always meant it to compete directly with Amazon, and the timing of that launch right into the teeth of the pandemic meant it was able to start strong and grow quickly.

Now Bookshop is selling ebooks, which is another market hugely dominated by Amazon. For Andy and Bookshop to get what they want, they’re probably going to have to gear up for a big fight. It’s kind of the app store question all over again, just like the big cases Epic had against Apple and Google, and it's all prime Decoder territory.

Links: 

• Bookshop is launching an ebook store to take on Amazon | The Verge
• As greenwashing soars, some question B Corp certification | BBC
• ‘The Goliath is Amazon’: After 100 years, B&N wants to go back to its roots | Decoder
• How Bookshop survives and thrives in Amazon’s world | Wired
• Apple to pay $450M after Supreme Court denies price-fixing appeal [2016] | The Verge
• Epic Games vs Apple | The Verge

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/604809

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re talking about DeepSeek, and how the open source AI model built by a Chinese startup has completely upended the conventional wisdom around chatbots, what they can do, and how much they should cost to develop. 

We’re also talking about Stargate, OpenAI’s new $500 billion data center venture that’s supposed to supercharge domestic AI infrastructure. Both stand in stark contrast with one another — and represent a new, escalating front in the US-China relationship and the geopolitics of AI. Verge senior AI reporter Kylie Robison joins me to break it all down.  

Links: 

• Why everyone is freaking out about DeepSeek | Verge
• DeepSeek FAQ | Stratechery
• DeepSeek: all the news about the startup that’s shaking up AI stocks | Verge
• OpenAI and Softbank are starting a $500 billion AI data center company | Verge
• The AI spending frenzy is just getting started | Command Line
• After DeepSeek, VCs face questions about AI investments | NYT
• Satya Nadella on Stargate: ‘All I know is I’m good for my $80 billion’ | Verge
• OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor | FT
• DeepSeek sparks global AI selloff, Nvidia loses about $593 billion of value | Reuters
• Four big reasons to worry about DeepSeek (and four reasons to calm down) | Platformer

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Gary Smith, CEO of the networking company Ciena. You probably aren’t familiar with Ciena — the company isn’t really a household name. But every internet user has relied on the company’s products; Ciena makes the hardware and software that makes the fiber optic cables connecting the world light up with data. 

That’s everything from local fiber networks for broadband ISPs to the massive undersea cables that connect continents. There’s a high probability that this very podcast came to you over a Ciena network, in fact — the company is everywhere. That means almost every single Decoder idea is right here, sitting on the backbone of the internet.

Links: 

• What is WDM or DWDM? | Ciena
• Southern Cross achieves first 1 Tb/s Transmission across Pacific with Ciena | Ciena
• The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat | Verge
• The internet really is a series of tubes | Vergecast
• Meta is building the ‘mother of all’ subsea cables | Verge
• Ciena CEO: Prepare for the AI wave | Fierce Network
• The secret life of the 500-plus cables that run the internet CNET
• Fiber-Optic Technology Draws Record Stock Value | NYT

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24115288

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s been a messy couple of weeks for big tech companies as the second Trump administration kicks off an unprecedented era of how we think about who controls the internet. Right now, there's a major collision, or maybe merger, happening between billionaire power and state power, and everyone who uses tech to communicate — so, basically everyone — is stuck in the middle. I sat down with law professor and online speech expert Kate Klonick to break it all down. 

Links: 

• Welcome to the era of gangster tech regulation | Verge
• Trump signs order refusing to enforce TikTok ban for 75 days | Verge
• Inside Zuckerberg’s sprint to remake Meta for Trump era | New York Times
• The internet’s future is looking bleaker by the day | Wired
• Meta is highlighting a splintering global approach to online speech | Verge
• Mark Zuckerberg lies about content moderation to Joe Rogan’s face | Verge
• Meta’s ‘tipping point’ is about aligning with power | WashPo
• Meta is preparing for an autocratic future | Tech Policy Press
• Meta surrenders to the right on speech | Platformer
• We’re all trying to find the guy who did this | Atlantic

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Matt Garman, the CEO of Amazon Web Services. Matt took over as CEO last June — you might recall that we had his predecessor Adam Selipsky on the show just over a year ago. That makes this episode terrific Decoder bait, since I love hearing how new CEOs will decide what to change and what to keep going after they’ve settled into their role.

Links: 

• There’s no AI without the cloud, says AWS CEO Adam Selipsky | Decoder
• Amazon's AWS to invest $11 bln in Georgia to boost AI infrastructure | Reuters
• Netflix’s Ted Sarandos responds to Jake Paul-Mike Tyson glitches | THR
• The furious contest to unseat Nvidia as king of AI chips | NYT
• Amazon’s moonshot plan to rival Nvidia in AI chips | Bloomberg
• Amazon invests another $4 billion in Anthropic | The Verge
• Why Netflix never goes down | The Verge
• Sam Altman lowers the bar for AGI | The Verge

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24102212

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, Nilay here. We’re still on winter break; we’ll be back with brand-new Decoder interviews next week, and with our Thursday shows later this month. I’m excited for what we’ve got in the pipeline. I think you’re going to love it.

For today, though, we’re sharing an episode of Peter Kafka’s new show Channels – he’s talking to disinformation researcher Renee DiResta about what’s going on with speech online in an era where platforms seem less inclined to moderate than ever. Peter’s an old friend and Renee is an expert on all this — there’s a lot of core Decoder themes in this one. Enjoy, and we’ll be back in a bit.

Links: 

• Channels with Peter Kafka | Apple Podcasts
• The Stanford Internet Observatory is being dismantled | Platformer
• A major disinformation research center’s future looks uncertain | The Verge
• Supreme Court to hear case on how government talks to social platforms | The Verge
• GOP targets researchers who study disinformation ahead of 2024 Election | NYT
• She warned of ‘peer-to-peer misinformation.’ Congress listened | NYT
• Disinformation watchdogs are under pressure. This group refuses to stop | NYT

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Decoder team turns the tables on Nilay and makes him answer your burning listener questions in our end-of-year wrap up special. We also reflect on the year’s biggest Decoder themes, discuss some of the most popular feedback we’ve received, and tease what we have planned for next year. 

Links: 

• Here we go: The Verge now has a subscription | The Verge
• How The Verge Works | The Vergecast
• Intuit asked us to delete part of this Decoder episode | Decoder
• What’s really behind Big Tech’s return-to-office mandates? | Decoder
• Rabbit CEO Jesse Lyu isn’t thinking too far ahead | Decoder
• Transparent Vice | The Verge
• UiPath CEO Daniel Dines thinks automation can fight the great resignation | Decoder
• Palmer Luckey, American Vulcan | Tablet 
• A revolution in how robots learn | The New Yorker

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices