Transition as Growth: Vaughn's Bold Leaps from Athletics to Student Services

In the heartwarming and inspiring latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field podcast we welcomed Dr. Vaughn Calhoun, an esteemed academic leader, recounted his transformative journey from a student athlete with a career-ending injury to a beacon for change in higher education.

 Engineering Identity Post-Injury

Calhoun began by sharing the immediate consequences of his injury and the impact it had on his self-image and life trajectory. He emphasized the importance of identity reconstruction, an experience that propelled him from a series of unfulfilling jobs to the realization that he needed to embrace authentic studenthood—a leap he bravely took by pursuing a master's degree far from the world of sports he knew.

Encounters That Changed

His Path One of the most pivotal moments in Calhoun's life was an encounter with a stranger at Borders bookstore who saw in him a potential future as a university athletic director. This set him on a path to his doctorate, with a determined goal to understand and improve collegiate athletics from an administrative perspective.

Mentorship and Its Lasting Impact

Calhoun credited much of his success to the mentors he encountered, specifically highlighting an inviting university president who believed in him and guided his professional growth. This president showed Calhoun how to harness vulnerability and understanding, which in turn helped him carve out his niche in student affairs.

The Student at Heart of the Leader

With a robust background in public policy and the professoriate, Calhoun brought humility and an unwavering focus on student success to his administrative roles. His approach has always been about being receptive to student needs and advocating for their growth and success, a principle he implemented in his roles at various educational institutions.

Innovation and Adaptation

Furthermore, Calhoun discussed the rise of AI in education and the urgent need for educators to integrate new technologies. Adaptation, he stressed, is not only inevitable but essential for student support and success, highlighting the importance of ethical considerations in the digital age.

Embracing the Journey

Closing the episode, Calhoun imparted advice to student affairs professionals undergoing transitions, encouraging them to focus on the process and seek mentorship. He suggests that staying authentic, seeking challenging experiences, and forming a supportive network are keys to personal and professional development.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to our next episode of student affairs voices from the field. Today, we sat down with doctor Vaughn Calhoun live and in person at the NASPA annual conference in March 2024, Seattle, Washington. Doctor Calhoun serves as the assistant vice president of student services and dean of Center For Academic Success at Seton Hall University in South Orange, New Jersey. He's been featured on a number of national platforms, including platforms, including Fortune Magazine, Education Edition, The Chronicle of Higher Ed, Inside Higher Ed, Huffington Post, NASPA Policy Briefs, and the Student Affairs Now podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:54]: A thought leader and commentator on issues related to the changing landscape of higher ed, doctor Calhoun believes critical dialogue is necessary to equip students for the future of work, which means cultivating adaptive learners who can thrive in a world that is increasingly volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. Doctor Calhoun's leadership career spans colleges and universities in the northeast from public, private, urban, suburban, small and large institutions with enrollments from 2,000 to more than 20,000 students. This experience includes public research universities, small private liberal arts, midsize Catholic universities to a predominantly online state university. Doctor Calhoun is a graduate of Rutgers University where he earned his bachelor's of science while also participating as a full scholarship student athlete on the football team. He also earned his master's of public policy and administration from Cal State Long Beach and a doctorate of education from Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts. Von, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:01:46]: Hello. How's it going? Thank you for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: It's such a joy for me to be able to meet with guests in person because normally we're across time zones and on a Zoom box and things like that. So I really appreciate you taking time out of your conference to connect with us.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:01:59]: Absolutely. Happy to share anything and answer anything.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: In our theme of transitions, when we got your story for casting, we just looked at it and went, we really wanna talk to you.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:07]: Okay.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:07]: Because your story, I think, is kind of unique in the world of student affairs, but also unique in that you've kind of been in a lot of different spaces before figuring out that your space, your professional purpose is here.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:20]: Absolutely. It took me a while.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:21]: So we know you're at Seton Hall now. We always like to know how you got to that seat, but we'd love for you to trace that journey through the beginning of sport.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:29]: Wow. No. That's just fantastic question. And, you know, my journey, it's something that I could not have mapped out. Yep. It it was something that really took shape while I was a student athlete. I played football at Rutgers. And in my 1st year at Rutgers, I blew my knee out.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:45]: And that was one of those things that you always think that happens to somebody else.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:50]: Yeah.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:50]: But when it happens to you, it's kinda like, oh my god. Like, it's happening. And not long after that, my head coach, he was fired. So these 2 big life moment events happened within 3 or 4 months of each other. And while I was at Rutgers, to compound that, at least at the time, I was steered into a major because it was athletic friendly. And that set me up on a course for not necessarily focusing as much as I probably should have on academics. And once I finished at Rutgers, I always tell people I graduated there, but I wasn't necessarily educated there. And that's a huge difference.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:03:22]: And it took me a while to kind of contextualize, well, what happened to me? And it wasn't until I read the book, The 40,000,000 Dollar Slave, The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of the Black Athlete, that really put it into context for me. And in particular, this book, it talks about the conveyor belt theory. Essentially, you have these institutions who go into black and brown neighborhoods and extract raw black or brown talent. And you're put on this figurative conveyor belt. And when you're on this belt, 1, you never know you're on the belt until you're off the belt. And the thing with the belt is there's always someone in front of you and someone behind you. Mhmm. And you move along this belt, and you get off the belt because you blow your knee out.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:03:58]: You aren't as good as they thought you were. And the consensus is next person up. And when the next person is up, you're essentially out. And when I read that, I was like, oh my god. I was a part of a system in which I didn't know until I read that. I was like, oh, that's what happened to me. And in that process, I was still trying to figure out, well, who am I now without sport? Because sport was something that I identified with since I was 6, 7 years old. And now here I am 21, 22 years old and it and it's over.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:04:25]: So now it's this journey of recreating myself. Like, who am I? And that led me on to going through a 1000000 different types of jobs. My first job out of college was shredding paper. Literally, shredding paper. I went back from my old school district and we were going from paper student records to electronic student records. This is 2004. And here I am, these boxes and boxes of student records. I'm literally scanning and shredding.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:04:50]: Wow. Scanning and shredding for 8 hours a day. I'm like, what the heck am I doing? And it gave me a lot of time to think in the process, and then that's when I decide, okay. I wanna go and try to be an authentic student. Go get my masters. It didn't really matter what it was. I just wanna explore this other piece of me that I didn't feel that I fully tapped into. So I ended up getting my or going to Cal State University Long Beach.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:13]: I'm originally from California. Going to Cal State Long Beach and I did my master's in public policy. And that's when I just started reading not just books on public policy, but just all types of books. Trying to figure out who am I in relation to the world.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:25]: So you invested in your education for yourself. Absolutely.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:28]: And during this process, there were so many things that I didn't realize about the world, about myself. And also in trying to find out who I am, I started taking on even more jobs. So I sold copy machines door to door in Los Angeles. And that was just something that I think everyone should try sales at least once. Just the experience of walking up to somebody and trying to sell something. Mhmm. And I remember I had this whole script. And my thing was walking into business parks and knocking on doors and saying, hey.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:55]: Can I talk to the person in charge of document management? And they're like, what's document management? And that was my end. Once you ask me a question, I can give you my spiel. So that was an experience. I even got put on a do not enter list because I was very persistent. And I kept going back and back and back trying to get the business. And then from there, I thought, okay. Maybe I wanna be an attorney. Maybe so then I took LSATs.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:15]: And then I said, well, maybe I might not wanna be an attorney. I might wanna be a police officer. I was driving down the 405 Freeway in Los Angeles, and there's this huge billboard that said LAPD hiring starting pay with a master's degree, $70,000. So I drove home, went online, put in my application, got called back for the written exam, and then got called back for the physical exam. And after I took my physical exam, it was about a 8 month period where it's just background check. In that time, I found me another job. I started working in insurance. And it was just this whirlwind of trying to figure myself out, but it wasn't until I had this one interesting interaction at Borders bookstore.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:50]: Remember Borders? It was like,

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:52]: oh, yeah. Mini Barnes and Noble.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:53]: Yeah. It was like it was like, you know, it was like Nike Reebok is Barnes and Noble's Borders. And I love Borders. But I walked in one day and this older gentleman looked like Bernie Sanders. Right? And he says, hey, did you play Rutgers? I'm like, mind you, I'm in Long Beach, California. How in the world does this guy know I played? And I barely even played. But I had a Rutgers Football t shirt on. He's, oh, okay.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:07:12]: He says, oh, it must have been a fantastic experience. Right? So, you know, older gentleman. So I sit down and have a conversation with them. And at the end of the conversation, you know, after I share my story with him, he goes, I can see it now. Vaughn Calhoun, athletic director, USC, Stanford, University of Texas. I'm like, oh, I've never even thought about myself in that way. Right? And he was the first gentleman, the first person who kinda put in my mind that I can maybe fix college athletics or do something about it because my experience as a student athlete wasn't the greatest one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:42]: He was a total stranger.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:07:43]: Absolutely. Total stranger. Did did know him, but we spent at least an hour with each other. And subsequently, we kept talking, kept meeting with each other and he even introduced me to his network who was a sitting athletic director in Los Angeles. So he said, hey, I want you to meet my buddy. I'm like, okay. So now there's this whole world of college athletics on the administration side that I didn't know exist. Well, I knew it existed, but I didn't know, like, that was a path that I could take.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:08:06]: So now this is 2,008. I just got married and if you recall, we had the financial meltdown and crisis in the world was just going in bad places. And I decided in that period of time that I'm gonna leave my job and move across the country to pursue my doctoral degree. And everyone thought I was nuts. Even my parents, like, what are you doing? You're leaving because at the time, I was working at for a local government agency making, you know, pretty decent money. And I said, you know what? The money at that time money's important, but it wasn't important. Right? I said, this is the thing that I wanna do because I said, I wanna understand how a college works and where does athletics fit within an institution of higher education so I can be an athletic director and fix it. And then here I am moving to Boston.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:08:49]: Literally, set my car, My wife and I are now newlyweds in Boston. And I remember as I'm going through this transition, I get to my last year of my doctoral program, and my dean and I get very friendly. And he says to me, listen, Vaughn. I know what you're trying to do. You wanna fix college athletics, but the way that you feel about it, 1, are they gonna let you in? And 2, if they do let you in, do you have to uphold the system in which you don't believe in?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:14]: I was like, oh, dang. Those are some great questions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:16]: That's a hard hard dissonance to deal with.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:18]: And I was like, what do I do? He said, well, I have door number 2. I said, well, what's door number 2? He said, you can teach. I said, who the heck am I gonna teach? And he said, listen, because my dissertation was on student athletes who were academically clustered, steered into a major because it was athletic friendly. It was a qualitative research study looking at the lived experience of student athletes who were clustered. So he says, I want you to come into my undergraduate class and just give a presentation on it. Right? So I said, okay.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:42]: So I did it once, did it twice, and then he says, do you feel comfortable with that now? I said, yeah. I feel pretty good because the students were very engaging. I was like, oh, this this is teaching, Oh, I can do this. He says, okay. Now I want you to start applying to faculty jobs. I was like, oh.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:53]: Oh, he's pathwaying you.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:54]: I was like, oh, you we didn't say I was like and he said just start applying. So I was like, alright. Let me start applying. So here I am, and now I'm sitting in these faculty interviews. And, hate to say this, even when I was in college, I didn't read my first book until spring semester senior year, cover to cover. So now here I am in these faculty interviews talking about my academic and teaching philosophies and all these things. And, you know, not in my distant past, I was that student who was just kind of out there and and not being a real student. Right? So I get a callback and says, you're hired.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:10:27]: I was like, oh, wow. Right? And that was just, you know, my pathway into higher ed working for a business department, at a small private liberal arts outside of Boston. And as I'm going through this, it really just, one, changed the way that I just thought about just myself in this phase of just recreation that I could create a new identity outside of just sports. But interestingly, I had a buddy who was moving from Maryland up to Boston at this one particular college. And I've heard of it. I drove past it every day. I didn't know much about it. And this college had a black male sitting college president.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:03]: I was like, that's pretty awesome. You don't really see that in particular within, like, Massachusetts. Mhmm. So I just Google searched him and he had these interviews and articles. So he's a really dynamic individual. So literally, on a Saturday morning, pulled my phone out, saw he had a Twitter, I tweeted at him. I was like, hey, you inspire me. And a few minutes later, he tweeted back.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:24]: He was like, thanks. So like, oh, you answered your old tweets. This is awesome. So I said, hey. Can I so now now I was like, okay? He I got him engaged. So I said, this is my opportunity. So I said, okay. I tweeted again, can I have the informational interview? Right? And I heard nothing.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:37]: I was like, oh, okay. You know, people are busy

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:39]: you know. Shot.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:40]: Right? Yeah. I'm gonna shoot You know, either 1 or 2 things can happen. You make it or you miss it. Yeah. But 2 weeks later, I get an email from his executive assistant that says, you know, the president wants to meet you. I was like, oh, this is awesome. So now this is August 2015. So I go sit in the president's office.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:56]: We were there for 3 hours literally. Wow. Just talking about his career, how he did what he did, why he did it, talked about myself, what I wanna do, what I think I wanna do. And in that meeting, he said to me, you can be a college president. I was like, woah. Again, right, just having these individuals, I couldn't plan for that. Right? So a few months later or within this interim period, we would text and talk. He introduced me to his network, and my job's August 20 15.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:12:21]: So a few months later, December 2015 and again, we never talked about jobs. Just philosophy about life and stuff. And he says, I wanna offer you a job. I want you to work for me. I was like, oh, okay. I got a job over here, but I like what you're saying just in terms of just his energy and enthusiasm. So I went and worked for this guy, and he would literally bring me into meetings I had no business being in. He hired me as an an assistant professor, which eventually I I was elevated to the chair of the chair of the department sitting as a faculty chair.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:12:51]: But I would go into these executive cabinet meetings and literally just sit on the wall with, you know, all the other VPs and they're all kinda looking at me, like, why is this guy here? And after every meeting, we would just have conversation about, okay, this is what's happening. This is why I said this, this, that, and the third. And, you know, this just happened, you know, over the next few years. And in this period of time, you know, he would bring me, like, literally into his, like, his personal life. Right? You know, he would bring me into his home with my wife and my son, you know, and and talk with his family, his wife, his kids. It it just became this this really awesome dynamic. And one day I just asked him, like, why are you doing this? Because he was just so generous. And he said, because someone did it for me.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:13:30]: I just asked that you do this for somebody else. I was like, I got you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:33]: Paying it forward in mentorship.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:13:35]: Absolutely. Right? So, and one of the things he said, by you working for me you're gonna know the questions to ask. I was like, I don't know what that means. So as I'm going up from my first AVP position, I was able during the interview to really diagnose and break down some of the nuances and ask these very specific questions. And I ended up getting the job, and I remember calling him after the final interview. He was like, I understand what you mean. I knew the questions to ask. Right? And I think those questions help separate me in terms of just how I looked at the position.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:14:06]: But, you know, it was just through these events and people, I couldn't have planned this out. And when I talk about this transition, it's just a lot of constant movement but being open to that movement. Being open to being vulnerable. Being open to saying, okay. I don't know what this is, but I wanna explore it. And that's one of the things that I share with a lot of my mentees. It's put yourself out there. Ask those questions because if you don't ask, you're not gonna know.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:14:29]: So I think these are the these things that we don't often talk about in particular, leaning into your network, finding those mentors. And I think mentorship becomes very cliche, like, find a mentor, have this mentor, but, no, really build those authentic relationships. And that has helped me tremendously. I couldn't be in this position without those individuals or it would have took me much much longer to sit in the seat at Seton Hall.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:50]: That is an extraordinary journey from being a d one football player to weaving your way through to this dean of students path now. Do you still see yourself on that pathway to a college presidency?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:15:02]: I aspire to higher leadership and I know that sometimes we're in such a hurry to get there. But in getting there, you're learning so many lessons. Even in in these past few years, I've learned so many lessons just about myself, about how to manage and lead people. Mhmm. So I definitely see myself on that trajectory and I definitely wanna get there. But one thing someone told me is like don't rush the process. Right? The process is the process. You know, you don't wanna end up getting there and not being ready for it.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:15:31]: So I'm very mindful of that and and making sure that I'm putting myself in positions to sit on different committees, to be a part of conversation that make me a little uncomfortable. Like, oh, I don't know too much about the nuances of finance and budgeting, but let me sit there with it. And I think if I continue doing these things, doing good work, opportunities will present itself.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:49]: You've had a nontraditional education path into student affairs itself. How did you get yourself up to speed with all of the student affairs literature and practice knowing you come from that MPP background, that faculty end. And student affairs for those of us who've kind of been in the field a while, I think there's generally a point of frustration when we see someone who's come from a pathway that didn't include that student development foundation, and then all of a sudden we're being led by this person. So how did you come from that place of humility while still bringing your expertise that you definitely had in the public policy space?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:16:20]: Yeah. I think one thing for me is I know that I don't know, and I'm not afraid to tell folks that I don't know that I need your help. And I think when you lead with that, folks typically look at that as a point of humility. I'm not gonna say I know more than you. Because truth is, you know, any new job that you walk into, folks who are there know more than you about that particular institution. So earlier in my career, part of what I did was I was an assistant athletic director for 3 and a half, 4 years at a small private liberal arts and reported up to the dean of students and we were housed within student affairs. So I was always a part of those a lot of my job was around the student success on the athletic side, but it was for a division 3 institution. Mhmm.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:05]: So the dynamics are a little bit different than division 1 where the emphasis on division 3 is the whole student. And division 1 does that, but I think more so like division 3, it is just part of the culture and fabric of we know that. More times than not, no one's turning pro. That's not what our goal is. We're not trying to generate revenue in that sense. And then for me, I got into this because I was driven by my own negative experience. Mhmm. So student success and making sure that students are always at the top of mind is something that I always talk about and that I always lead with.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:36]: So when people hear my story and when when people understand why I'm doing what I'm doing, knowing that I have this background that is a little unique, but it's always toward that north star of how are we helping our students. And I think once that gets conveyed and understood, it helps galvanize people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:51]: How did that student athlete experience inform how you practice in student affairs now?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:56]: Being a student athlete, at least at the time, I felt that I wasn't heard, wasn't necessarily valued. So anytime I see a student engage with a student, I wanna make sure that they're heard, that they're validated. Because when in particular, if a student reaches my office, usually something didn't go right at some point along the way. Right? And whatever their challenges are is the most important thing to them in that moment. And me being a former just student athlete knowing that I wish I had an advocate, I wish I had someone who could really just stand up for me. I take that mindset. And even when I get these parent calls, knowing that I wish that my parents could have engaged with somebody and someone would have been receptive. So always taking that to heart and make sure that I never forget that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:38]: You've navigated a lot of change very successfully. Change and the mindset that you bring and kind of your philosophy around how you make transitions?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:18:55]: Yeah. You know, change is the really only constant and being open to it. Because I think so many times, generally speaking, folks are opposed to change because you always ask yourself, what does this mean for me? What am I gonna lose versus, well, what could I gain? And I always took the perspective of there are some things that I don't know that I know that I need to experience these things in order to become a better person and to elevate in my career. So if I would just sit back and what's comfortable, I'm not gonna grow. And interestingly, my son, he's 9 years old. And that's one thing that I really try to challenge him with. Right now he's doing Taekwondo and he's on the sparring team. And it can be pretty tough.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:19:30]: He has a really old school hard nose instructor. And my son always talks about, oh, this is getting tough. It's getting tough. I said, no. The tough part means that this is your growth phase. These are when the moments of you're gonna question yourself, but what are you gonna do in those moments? Are you gonna sit back or are you gonna meet the challenges? And that's something as a former student athlete, we couldn't just sit back and be comfortable. Because if we sit back and be comfortable, there's someone else that's working when we're not working. So constantly trying to say, how can we get better? How can we get that edge? Edge? And I take that with changes.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:01]: Things are moving. Right? And if I don't try to keep up with the change or get ahead of the change, we're going to be stunted in some way. And at the end of the day, the students will suffer for it. And I really think about this right, so when we think about AI, and I think one of the first reactions a year or so ago was this is the worst thing in the world. It's going to crush teaching. It's gonna crush learning. In some regards, it might to a certain extent, but also what are the opportunities of helping individuals? What are the opportunities in which we can streamline? And because students are going to enter a world that's AI driven, if we just turn our heads to that and pretend that it doesn't exist, we're doing them a disservice. Mhmm.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:36]: So how can we as a college community, staff, and faculty, educate ourselves so we can best educate our students and talk about it through through the lens of ethics. Talk about it through the lens of how these new technologies, though it could be different and scary, are gonna be the things that they're gonna need to be successful.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:52]: Well, and also AI is just not ChatGPT alone.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:56]: Absolutely. And I think

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:56]: that's been kind of the narrative in higher ed, that ChatGPT is the end of academic integrity. But there are also institutions that are using it really well for, like, auto replies when students need information

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:06]: That's right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:07]: At 2 in the morning.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:07]: That's right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:08]: Or, you know, texting services or or whatever. So there's lots of cool opportunities, but then there's also ethical issues around copyrights and particularly with arts.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:17]: Correct.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:17]: Things like that, so but I also came aware recently of an AI repository that's cataloging, like, millions of research papers, which will be an incredible resource for doctoral students of the future, which which I wish I had access to when I was doing my doctorate. So it'll make the lit review process faster in some ways, but I think also will start to discourage people from reading whole articles. I mean, let's be honest, we're always skimmers anyway, but but I think that will be a fascinating evolution too.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:41]: Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:42]: Do you have any advice for student affairs professionals that are in their own space of transition right now?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:46]: I think for anyone in the space of transition, knowing that it's gonna be difficult to a certain extent, but also knowing that if you just stayed where you're at, can you really grow? And sometimes you have to go out and put yourself in those vulnerable positions. As simple as asking for a mentor. Asking someone, will you mentor me? And again, for me, it's they can either say 1 or 2 things. They can say yes, or they can say no, or they don't respond. But what I think, you know, going through transition just knowing, focusing on the process and not the outcome and knowing that the journey will be the journey, whatever that journey, whatever that process is, and just focus on doing good work, Focus on being as authentic as you can, and focus on surrounding yourself with individuals who will speak life and encourage you. And also make sure you have those individuals who tell you the truth because we don't always just want cheerleaders around. We want those individuals say, hey. Can I give you some constructive criticism or some critiques? And that's where you can learn the most so you don't have as many gaps as you would if you didn't have those individuals there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:41]: And if you're able to hear that when it's given.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:22:43]: Yes. Right. You gotta be open to that. Because some people, you know, the the the Eagles can be very fragile, but you have to be able to really take that to say, okay. You know, they're saying this because they wanna help me, not hurt me in most cases.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:54]: Mhmm. I think that can be quite dependent on the, the provider of that advice. Absolutely. Solicited or unsolicited.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:22:59]: And if you don't ask to to solicit something from somebody, why would you listen to someone that you wouldn't solicit information from? So for me, it's making sure that you have good people around you who really care for your best interest.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:10]: Is there anything that you did in a transition that you look back and say, wow, I wish I would've done that a little differently?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:15]: I think it's always hard to gauge what you're gonna walk into. And you have an idea of what a situation is, but you never know what it's going to be until you actually get there. So for me, it's really just ground myself in knowing who I am and knowing my strengths as well as knowing where my gaps are and just being just just very honest with myself about that. And that can be hard for folks. Right? Every time, you know, folks say, you know, I I know all these things and I can do this. And you wanna be that go getter, but also at the same time, just just knowing that constantly learn as much as you can. And learning people, learning programs, and learning processes. Like, those like my 3 p's.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:51]: I wish I would've known that about 10 years ago, but every institution, there's people, there's programs, there's processes. Learn those as quickly as you can. Mhmm. And knowing that the process, again, will be the process. And have a lot of those informal conversations as much as you can and just getting to really know individuals as individuals.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:15]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA. There's a brand new Leadership Exchange Magazine that recently came out for spring 2024. And if you've never read the Leadership Exchange, you definitely should. The Leadership Exchange is the magazine for all of our chief student affairs officers that NASPA puts out a number of times throughout the year. And this Springs Leadership Exchange Magazine is focused around preserving campus discourse. Inside of this magazine, you're going to see some amazing articles throughout the entire magazine that do talk about campus discourse and what you can do on your own campus to be able to protect free speech on your campus. There are some articles about visibility and promoting Afro Latinx students, understanding professional certification, and how you can elevate your own division through professional certification, and also talking about some of the stories of student affairs and also talking about some of the stories within student affairs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:14]: These magazines are not just written for vice presidents for student affairs. So don't let that turn you away from learning, from reading this and taking out of it some amazing kernels of knowledge. You can access this on the NASPA website. Go to the NASPA website, click on public publications, and you'll see the Leadership Exchange is one of the publications that is available to you as a member. Also, there's a few other NASPA books that I wanted to share with you that you may find very helpful on your own campuses and in the work that you do. 1st and foremost is a book called Small and Mighty Student Affairs at Small Colleges and Universities. This book explores critical opportunities and challenges at higher education institutions with fewer than 5,000 students. Written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, this comprehensive text covers a range of topics relevant to higher education and student affairs while providing detailed insights and action to take for and in support of to take for in support of and alongside students at small colleges and universities.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:20]: Thriving in the small college culture requires flexibility, collaboration, and the ability to shift rapidly within the changing environment of higher education. Small and Mighty offers thoughtful strategies and insights to help student affairs professionals identify innovative solutions, innovative solutions to some of the most pressing issues facing small colleges and universities today. This book was written by Carol Livingston, Krista Porter, and Thomas Shandley and it is a amazing book for anyone working at a small college or university. And I highly encourage you to pick up a copy today. Now this season we've been talking about transitions and one of the big transitions that many student affairs professionals will go through in their career is supervising others. Another book that is available is called Supervised Practice Connecting Professional Competency Areas to Professional Development and Student Affairs. Supervised practice has become a hallmark of how the field of higher education and student affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create the conditions necessary for supervised practice and the graduate academic curriculum to be a seamless learning experience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:28]: Becoming a supervisor is a hallmark of how the field of higher education and student affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create the conditions necessary for supervised practice and the graduate academic curriculum to be a seamless learning experience. With a focus on the ACPA and NASPA professional competency areas as the bedrock for enhancing proficiency in the field. This book is designed to introduce the competency areas as they relate to supervised practice in graduate preparation programs. Chapters examine how to design experiences for students in the workplace that align with the ACPA and NASPA professional competency areas, create condition for graduate students to understand the application of theory within the workplace, establish an environment that promotes an understanding of the supervisory role as it relates to socializing and retaining new professionals in student affairs, create learning partnerships that focus on the intersection of individual development and the acquisition of knowledge and skills for administrative practice, develop professional philosophy of practice in the digital age, and assess the professional competency areas within the graduate the graduate practicum and employee experience to ensure learning and development. If you supervise graduate students or want to supervise graduate students in the future as they prepare to be professionals in the field, a brand new book called Supervised Practice Connecting Professional Competency Areas to Professional Development and Student Affairs is definitely a book you wanna pick up. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:00]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:22]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on going on in and around NASPA. And, Vaughn, we have now reached our lightning round.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:28]: Awesome.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:29]: I have 7 questions for you in 90 seconds.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:32]: Oh, alright. I'll do I'll do my best.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:34]: Bring out your competitive story. Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:41]: Oh, my god. Oh, jeez. It would be something with, my favorite artist. One of my favorite artist is Jay z. I don't know what, but something within his catalog.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:50]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:53]: I wanted to be a San Francisco 49er. I wanna be just like Jerry Rice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:58]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:00]: Oh, that would be Dr. Robert Johnson, the current president of Western New England University.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:06]: Number 4. Your essential student affairs read. Anything that deals with student success. Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:14]: Oh, Ballers with Dwayne Rock Johnson.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:17]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:21]: Steven Bartlett, The Diaries of a CEO.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:23]: And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:27]: Absolutely. I love to shout out my wife who's always been there for me, who's been a constant truth teller, but in a very loving way. And I'll also shout out my son. He's 9 years old. He keeps me young, and he keeps me on my toes as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:40]: Von, it's been just a joy to get to know you today. I'm very grateful that you took some time out of your conference to speak with us here on SA Voices. And if others would like to speak with you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:50]: They can find me on LinkedIn, Vaughn Calhoun, or they can find me at my email, [email protected].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:58]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice and your story with us today.

Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:32:01]: Thank you for having me. I appreciate you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:05]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us atsa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:46]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Welcome to NASPA's SA Voices From the Field Podcast. This week we had an insightful conversation from our podcast with Dr. Stacey Malaret, a seasoned authority in student affairs, recorded at the NASPA annual conference in Seattle.

 Transitioning Roles: Administrator to Educator

During the episode, Dr. Malaret, who has worked in student development since 1999 and serves as the Director for the Lead Scholars Academy at UCF, shared her insights on balancing administrative duties with academic responsibilities. She teaches leadership studies and serves on dissertation committees, embodying the blend of practitioner and scholar.

Generational Shifts in Leadership

Dr. Malaret highlighted the generational changes from millennials to Gen Z, stressing the unique leadership development needed for today's diverse student populations. UCF's Lead Scholars Academy and U-LEAD programs are testament to her progressive and adaptive methods, which now include a virtual leadership academy initiated eight years ago.

The Online Learning Curve

Our discussion also shed light on the augmented reality of higher education - online learning. Dr. Malaret emphasized the myth of online courses being 'easier', arguing that self-motivation is key to success in a digital classroom. While the asynchronous nature of online courses provides flexibility, it also demands a greater level of self-drive and discipline from students.

Bridging Academic and Student Affairs

A significant portion of our dialogue revolved around understanding the interplay between academic and student affairs. As a faculty member, Dr. Malaret brings a unique perspective to student success, bridging curricular and co-curricular experiences. Her involvement at both ends of the educational spectrum allows her to witness firsthand the impact of out-of-class experiences on academic success.

Advice for Aspiring Educators

For those aspiring to transition into teaching, Dr. Malaret suggested volunteering as a teaching assistant or adjunct professor to gain valuable classroom experience. She advised that understanding the academic calendar and significant dates can help student affairs professionals to be more empathetic and supportive of students during stressful times like finals and midterms.

The Balancing Act

Dr. Malaret affirmsedthat engaging in the classroom will enrich the abilities of student affairs professionals, influencing workshops, presentations, and even student interactions. By wearing multiple hats and thriving in each, Dr. Malaret serves as an inspirational figure for those navigating the complex landscape of student affairs and higher education. 

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today, we welcome our next guest who we were able to sit down with at the NASPA annual conference in Seattle, Washington this March 2024. Welcome to doctor Stacey Mallaret, originally from Orlando, Florida, and who attended the University of Southern Mississippi for her bachelor of arts degree in psychology. She then graduated in 1998 from the University of Central Florida with the master of arts in student personnel, and in 2007 with her in educational leadership. She's worked in the student affairs development field since 1999, and currently serves as the director for the Lead Scholars Academy at UCF.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: She teaches educational leadership, strategies for success and leadership studies classes, in addition to chairing and serving on dissertation committees. Alright. Stacey, welcome to essay voices. Thank you. And we are recording live at the NASPA annual conference today. We're in a meeting room right now. So for our listeners, there's audio quality differences that you're noticing. It's we're really live in person, and so it's it's not a frequent thing that I get to interview frequent thing that I get to interview guests in person, so this is a really big treat for me as well.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:01:17]: Oh, me too. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:18]: And you're at the University of Central Florida, and you have multiple hats, both as an administrator and as a faculty member. So we're gonna be talking today mostly about your transition between those two spaces and how those kind of supplement your work and understanding as a practitioner. Great. But we love to always start by asking our guests, how did you find your way into your current seat?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:01:39]: Well, back in the 1900, as my children would say, I was a really involved student leader. My father used to say I majored in Delta Zeta because that's all I talked about. Didn't really talk about my classes. And I think I had the traditional tap on the shoulder saying, hey. Have you heard about student affairs type of conversation? And I did my research pre Internet, you know, to try to find, you know, different institutions. And I ended up going to, actually, University of Central Florida for my master's. I'm from Orlando originally. Got an assistantship, worked in student activities, got my first job in student activities. And also, during my grad program, had a practicum teaching a SLS course as a strategies and learning success course at a, say, college with shout out to Dana Gentlemen, who's a good colleague that I've known for a long time now, and

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:32]: so shout out to Dana Genten, who's a good colleague that I've known for a long time now. And so whenever I meet someone from UCF, I always think of her. 

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:42]: Yes. I know Dana very well. Please tell her I said hi.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:02:43]: I will.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:43]: Back to your campus. So talk first a little bit about your day job. What is it that you're doing in the student affairs world mostly?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:02:49]: So I am a director of our leadership programs area. It's called the LEAD Scholars Academy. It's an academic and co curricular leadership development program for incoming 1st year students, and then we also have a program for upper class students, which we call U LEAD.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:02]: It's been an interesting generational transition time right now between what we thought millennials needed in leadership space to now what we're seeing Gen Z is needing and they're very different things. What are you doing to adapt your practice to the generational mindset that we're seeing now?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:03:18]: Well, one thing that we started probably about 8 years ago is a virtual leo Leadership Academy. It has 8 different modules on various leadership topics that any student with a UCF ID can log in and do at their leisure. We did that because we found that students wanted that virtual space as available to them. Whether or not they take advantage of it is another question.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:40]: Of course.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:03:41]: But they wanted to have that. And I've seen different colleagues who have used that for training their own student leaders. So if maybe they couldn't take a leadership class, this was kind of the next best thing that they could say, okay. Well, before you become a peer mentor with us or a resident assistant or orientation leader or what have you. Take this virtual leadership academy so you get the basics of what leadership is as part of their training process.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:04]: And you said that was developed 8 years ago. Correct. So you were doing virtual online learning before it was cool?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:09]: We were ahead of the curve. Yes.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:12]: So as you're looking ahead, how has that curriculum evolved over time?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:16]: Well, we have adopted the social change model as our basis for leadership development, but then we've supplemented throughout the years with other leadership theories, and we started doing strengths quests this past year. So we've been adding to the social change model as our base what we think would be good for students to learn and know about themselves and others.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:40]: For those who aren't familiar with the social change model, can you give us a a 30 second CliffsNotes?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:45]: Sure. So Susan Komaviz is one of the authors of the social change model, and it focuses on individual values, group values, and societal values, and how to make the world a better place. So learning about yourself, learning how to work with others, and learning how to take that knowledge and help with your community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]: It's a unique leadership model because it's one of the few that was co developed in community with other leaders as opposed to one person being, like, here's my idea of leadership. So they kind of modeled their own leadership values and theory by creating it in their way. So if you've not read The Social Change Model, I would encourage you to do so. And, also, it's one of those ones that has a beautiful abbreviation. They always talk about the 7 c's and the 3 buckets.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:05:24]: And students really resonate with it because they can say, oh, well, I focus on this c, or I focus on, you know, collaboration or consciousness of self. I learned in strengths quest. I learned this about myself, and I'm able to relate it to a model. So it makes them feel a little bit more connected with our curriculum.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:42]: And one of my favorite things about the 7 c's model too is that you can really focus kind of in a module based form on each of the c's as opposed to, kind of looking at this long nebulous trajectory of leadership. You can really, really kind of narrow in on common purpose or civility Contribution. Yeah. Those types of things. So there's a lot of amazing institutions doing good work with

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:03]: Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:03]: This framework right now. I actually just had a conversation this morning in the Global, Division Leadership Board with a good colleague from South Africa who was saying, oh my gosh, we're using the social change model at our universities at Stellenbosch in South Africa, and I also see us talking about it here in the US. So that one's really permeating right now. And then your side hustle quote unquote is working as a faculty member. What are you doing in that space?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:29]: So I teach a Strategies for Success course for incoming freshmen, and I also teach in the higher ed program as well at our institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:37]: And I believe you're also advising doctoral

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:47]: their their dissertation chair, and then I also serve on committees as well. And that's a great way to help with the highest level students going into this field or just wanting to further their education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:59]: You're really spanning the corners of the

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:01]: Freshman to doctorate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:02]: Yes. Freshman to doctorate from Orlando to Seattle.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:06]: Right. And I and I actually were in Seattle, and I took a walk yesterday around town, and I passed by the City University of Seattle campus. I took a picture. I was like, oh, maybe I should go and get my faculty ID.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:16]: Did you get it?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:17]: No. It was Sunday, so I didn't. But I was like, maybe I should today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:20]: I think that's a be a fun souvenir from Yeah. Your trip to Seattle. And in thinking about what you're seeing in evolution and transition of the research right now, I know we went through a period of time where everyone was really intense about wanting to research the impacts of the pandemic. And I think we're starting to see that soften a little bit on the research and and now. What are you seeing that doctoral students are most interested in studying in the present?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:42]: Well, I have a lot of students who are studying diverse components of higher education. So, for example, the black woman's experience in the faculty world. Or I have one who's focusing on humor and how practitioners need humor in order just to get through the day. And so how do they cope with their day to day job? So it's very diverse. I don't have a really one area that students are picking up. It really depends on their individual interest. I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:19]: education faculty space. Mhmm. Because I think in our academy, you know, that we do have a knowledge community here in NASPA called Student Affairs Partnering with Academic Affairs, but those who are not insiders to higher ed don't necessarily understand the level of chasm that can exist between administration side and faculty side. So Yeah. I'd love to hear about how you transition your mindset between both roles, and then also kind of bring those pieces together for your colleagues that are in either space.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:08:45]: Well, first, in order to kinda get into the space, you need experience to get the experience, which is kind of the mantra in student affairs. And so if we have graduate students listening, I would say volunteer to serve as a graduate teaching assistant for free with a faculty member, whether it's a freshman seminar course or a leadership course or something that is more aligned with the student affairs area. Freshman seminar strategies for success, things like that are college one zero one courses are typically the one that has the biggest comparison to student affairs and biggest likeliness to have some topics that are in both areas. So I would say volunteer. Even if you're a practitioner, see if you could volunteer. Mhmm. You know, because that's how I got my first side hustle gig when I was working in student activities. I did that one GTA experience for a practicum and it was on my resume and they needed an adjunct for a freshman seminar course.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:09:38]: And they said, Stacey, you have experience. You could do this. And I kinda faked it till I made it. I was like, sure. I could do this. And just kind of struggled along and had mentors who were faculty members, like, you know, asked them, can you share your lesson plans? Can you give what you do? And I think that's really important the first time you teach is find someone who's taught it before to help you along. And so I think that there is a great relationship between teaching those types of courses and being a practitioner because you're able to see the students in a different mindset. Mhmm.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:10:08]: You can read their reflections that they may have spoken to you individually about how they're doing or about their academic advising. So there's a great relationship between student success coaching, academic advising, and teaching a freshman seminar type class. Because in my class, I have them talk about what they're taking next semester, Have them talk about what their major is, what they wanna do when they graduate. And those are all conversations that practitioners have normally with students. It's just in a more academic context, and you're grading them. You wouldn't grade them talking to them. Right. But you'd be grading them about their ability to reflect, and I think it's a great way to get to know the students in a different lens.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: I am curious if you have any advice for practitioners who are looking to teach their first course, but do need to be or deserve to be compensated for that first course because it's a great privilege to be able to volunteer one's time for that type of thing. And in student affairs especially, I think we give away our time for free a lot. Yes. And so how would you kind of take that first step inside of that world if you do want to or need to be paid for that work?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:11]: Well, I would first talk to whoever the department chair is and say what is the compensation for adjuncts.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:16]: Mhmm. Which we know is not great.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:18]: Yeah. It could range anywhere from 1,000 to 5 $1,000, I've seen. And, you know, try to get your foot in the door and get one of those classes, and then you can expand to other universities. It doesn't have to be the one that you work at. You can work for a community college or an online university.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:34]: Mhmm.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:35]: Sometimes they would require additional credentials, especially if you're teaching online to learn how to work the learning management system and develop modules online. I think a lot of faculty ask me for my program. They're like, oh, I can teach online. And I'm like, it's not that easy. No. You know, you have to learn how to teach online before you can teach online. And I think a lot of people are unaware of that back end work. And so if there's a way that you can do that ahead of time, get that credential, talk to your faculty center for teaching and learning or whatever it may be called your institution and ask, how do I get credentialed to teach online? If you have that already, you're a much more viable candidate to teach.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:16]: We're talking about micro credentials. We're not talking about Right.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:19]: No. No. No. Going back for another degree. No. No.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:12:21]: It would be probably an online course that you would take, a zero credit online course. Just to learn how to navigate your learning management system back end and how to engage students in an online format, things like that. And then use that to your advantage when you're asking about teaching and you might be chosen over others for that paid work.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:39]: And pedagogy is so different in online teaching versus kind of that live in person instruction.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:12:44]: Right. Learning how to be interactive with discussion boards because you're not gonna have that discussion. I do a live session every week on the chapter, and I teach the chapter. Whether or not students show up for that is a different thing, but I record them and I post them. And I think even if they don't watch them, I think students, knowing that they can, makes them feel more connected to the class, or at least I like to think so.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:07]: Well, online learning, I also feel like is the the wave of how we create access in higher education. Because of that asynchronous modeling, it allows people who have full time jobs or parenting schedules or other caregiver schedules or just unpredictable hours at their work to be able to engage in their course more effectively. I took a couple of online courses in my doctoral program, and it was fascinating how much I could learn from others through discussion boards, which was not something that I expected going into the process. Right. And then really felt by the time we got to meeting in person that I I kind of knew people and how they thought about things even though we had never had a live synchronous conversation. It's an interesting process. So when you are working with students in that online space, talk about the transition that you're seeing in their expectations for a class versus how they end up engaging.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:13:54]: I think sometimes students think that online classes are going to be easier.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:59]: They're so much harder than in person.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:14:01]: They they just think, oh, I'll just take it online, and I think that the motivation in online classes is tougher because you're not having that professor in front of you saying, this is due on Friday. Mhmm. You have to have the ability to go to the calendar and to log in to we use Canvas on a daily basis and see what's on your to do list. And have that self motivation to actually work on those assignments. So I think that's the toughest thing is, you know, I have more students fail in the online course sections than in the face to face course sections because I think that motivation is something that can't be taught and some students think that they're taking the easy way out by taking the online section.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:44]: And it's a much more self intrinsically motivated space. Right. Because oftentimes in the in person space it's a lot of work to get yourself to the class, but once you're in the class, it's easier to turn your brain on because you're in a focused time.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:14:55]: Right. And you're surrounded by like minded students, hopefully, who are wanting to do well, and when you surround yourself with others who want to do well, you rise to the occasion. Whereas in an asynchronous space, you're alone, unless you are really engaging in those discussion boards. But even if you are, sometimes it's harder to feel that sense of urgency to do well in the class when you don't see others also. What do

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:20]: you want student affairs practitioners to know, who haven't been in the classroom side about what we should be paying attention to that maybe we're not seeing in our day to day interactions with students.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:15:30]: Well, I think it's really important to know what's going on in the academic side of the house. Student affairs sometimes are siloed and don't think about student credit hour dollar generation or faculty policies or withdraw dates and things like that because they are focusing on the out of class experience. But students don't come typically to a university because of the out of class experiences. They're going because they have their major or they really like the academic rigor or they are is about the academics that they're drawn to because as we all know, they're a student leader, not a leader student. Mhmm. So academics you know, more about what's going on and the timelines, you should know when midterms are because you're going to be able to see a difference in your student. And you'll know when finals are because you might need to be more lenient with what the expectations are for your student leaders that week. So I think by being in the classroom, you're in tune with that schedule and what students are going through, and also are able to help support your students more because of your awareness.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:41]: What about in the inverse? What do you think that faculty are missing about the student affairs world, and how are you bringing that message in the other direction?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:16:48]: Yeah. I don't think faculty realize how important it is for students to be involved to develop those soft skills, which are so important in the real world regardless of what career path a student will go into. I'd like to tell students that your resume will get you the job, but your leadership skills get you the promotion. So sometimes faculty forget about those leadership skills and how important it is to be involved as a student leader so that you can gain those skills. So that when they are in the field that you are teaching in, they can rise and become stronger advocates for your field and to rise in different positions of the chain.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:26]: Any final thoughts for our listeners on the transitions between the faculty seat and the student affairs practitioner seat?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:17:34]: I would say teaching is a lot of fun. It really helps you think about the student experience in a different lens, and it's gonna make you a better practitioner practitioner if you're able to teach in the classroom because you're going to first learn about yourself and how to how to talk to students, how to interact with students, and that's going to translate into your practitioner role when you're doing workshops and presentations and even interviewing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:00]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:06]: Thanks so much, Joe. Great to be back in the NASPA world. And recently, there has been some transformative news about the future of the Center For First Generation Student Success that I wanted to share with all of you today. Since its founding in 2017 as a joint initiative between NASPA and the Souter Foundation, the center has enjoyed great success built upon the foundation set by Eric and Deb Suter and their success with the original First Scholars model. The center has far surpassed NASPA's original goals. Now with 27 staff members, the center offers a wide array of programmatic offerings, national events, informative research, and of course, a robust and growing network of partners at 349 institutions representing 49 states and the District of Columbia. When you combine that with the professional development, research, data, networking, advocacy, and all the other resources provided by the center, and you can easily see why it's become the premier organization in the field of 1st generation student success. The success has prompted the center to take the next step in its evolution.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:15]: The Center For First Generation Student Success is becoming its own 501c3 organization. The vision and goals since inception was for NASPA to incubate the center until it was established as a leader in the field. While it will technically be a separate organization, the center will remain strategic partners with NASPA, the professional home for student affairs and an organization that is committed to cultivating student success. NASPA's long standing partnership with Eric and Deb Souter and the Souter Foundation as cofounders remains vital to the center's success. Since partnering with NASPA to create the center, the suitors commitment to the continuous growth and long term sustainability of the organization is the foundation on which the center's success is built, while their passion for creating economic opportunity and belief in the potential of 1st generation students is unparalleled. The transition to a 501c3 organization offers many benefits, providing more partner opportunities for higher education institutions, more ways for the philanthropic community to influence 1st generation success and outcomes 1st generation success and outcomes, and more opportunities for the center to drive transform to drive transformational change for institutions nationwide. Keep an eye out for some other exciting changes, some different names, but the center will continue to offer the same outstanding program services and support that you've come to expect while also growing to meet the needs of an evolving field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:45]: Okay. We are back. Thank you, Chris, as always, for telling us what's going on in and around NASPA. There's a lot happening post conference, so I hope you've all made it home safely and you're gearing up towards the end of the year now. So we are very thrilled to be bringing you into our lightning round. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Okay.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:03]: These are unscripted because I is my go to karaoke song.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:16]: And we're here at the conference right now. Kevin Kruger just literally entered to the Bee Gees Stayin' Alive and, like, did a disco dance on stage. It was actually really fun. Yes. Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:27]: I don't know. You know, it was funny. I didn't have any women in my life who worked. Mhmm. And so that was a very interesting question. So I didn't really know what women did when I was 5. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Probably doctor Joe Paul from University of Southern Mississippi. He was our vice president of student affairs and is now the president.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:48]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:51]: Oh, probably beginning your journey for our graduate students to learn how to navigate your 1st year in the profession. That's a NASBA publication.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:00]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:03]: This is Us. It is amazing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:05]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:08]: the last year. Probably the student leadership programs knowledge community podcast, and I serve as a SLPKC co chair.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:15]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:18]: I would love to give a shout out to everyone I've met at this conference and everyone who I hope to connect with afterwards.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:25]: It's been a pleasure getting to know you and hearing about the faculty side of your journey. Mostly we talk with practitioners on our show, so it's really great to get the balance on the other side. If folks would like to connect with you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:38]: Sure. My email is [email protected].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:42]: Thank you so much, Stacey, for sharing your voice with us.

Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:45]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:48]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Cratney. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:29]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Diversity and Inclusion as Cornerstones

In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton emphasizes a critical component of student affairs - the unwavering commitment to justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging (JEDIB). Our seasoned panelists, hailing from various colleges and universities, underscore the weight these principles carry in their day-to-day operations, extending to job searches, mentorship, and general support within their respective institutions.

Intentional Hiring and Representation

Several panelists, such as Aquanetta Pinkert and Dr. Adrienne White, spotlight the importance of creating an environment where everyone feels they belong. They stress intentional hiring practices that not only look at qualifications but also give weight to lived experiences, ensuring teams mirror the diversity of the student body they serve.

Challenges and Alignment with Values

The current landscape, fraught with challenges in states like Louisiana and Florida, demands an active demonstration of DEI values. Taylor Kane and Shatera Davis explain the necessity of aligning personal values with those of their employers to effectuate genuine change and advocate for marginalized communities.

Growth and Empathy in Leadership

Evolving as empathetic leaders is key. Panelists discuss the need to incorporate DEI into everyday work, language, and team collaborations, recognizing that personal growth stems from understanding and championing diverse perspectives. Leaders like Dilna Cama and Sabina Kapoor emphasize the dynamic nature of DEI and its role in shaping mentorship and advocacy within higher education.

Support Systems and Professional Development

Rachael Amaro and Stephanie Cochrane highlight support systems' centrality in fostering an inclusive environment for staff and students. Professional development tailored to understanding and serving diverse student populations is not just an additive; it is the foundation upon which equitable student support is built.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your SA Voices from the field host. Hello, SA Voices. This is our final bonus episode from the annual conference in which you shared with us your thoughts on the 3 conference foci areas. If you haven't listened to the other 2, go ahead and check back for the previous 2 weeks to listen to your responses there. For today's focus area, we're looking at justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging. And the question we asked all of you was how do considerations of JED IB influence your approach to job searching, mentorship, and or support in the profession of student affairs? You all had some incredible responses to this one. Please enjoy this part of the conversation, and again, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us.

Acquanetta Pinkard [00:01:04]: I'm Acquanetta Pinkard. I am from Montgomery, Alabama. I work for Alabama State University and I am a trio professional for 23 years. It influences greatly because I believe everybody matters. Everybody matters, everybody in their respective place should have an opportunity to feel free, have a sense of belonging and be comfortable for whatever time that you you're in that space. So it's huge for me.

Taylor Cain [00:01:33]: I'm Taylor Cain. I work at the University of Georgia and serve as the director of engagement leadership and service there. I think when it comes to DEI efforts, you know, trying to keep those things always at the front of your mind, recognizing my own privilege that I have and the identities that I hold, the experiences that I've been fortunate enough to have, recognizing they might extend it to everybody, whether because of identities they might hold or because they don't have the financial backing right to attend a conference as great as NASPA. But trying to keep those things in mind and make opportunities for folks to to experience what they can where they are, within the local locality of where they're at and what they're able to to do. I think when it comes to the work that we do in supporting students is recognizing how I show up, how I take the time to spend with folks to better understand their lived experience, let that inform how I approach my work. And always I think recognizing and and trying to approach it with a little bit of humility. I've always got more to learn. I mean, I certainly don't know at all.

Taylor Cain [00:02:31]: So, I mean, I think that's that's certainly gonna be important. And, you know, I think at the end of the day, trying to find an employer or a place of employment that matches your values, where you feel like you can be yourself, that you can show up authentically and do good work, and to know that that you are salient to the purpose and mission of that institution. I think for me, I've I feel really lucky to be in a place where where those values align, but I've always encouraged folks that that whatever institution you're at may not always be it. And so trying to find opportunities where you at the end of the day can go home and feel good about what you're doing. Because that buy in, it's tough to sometimes achieve, but it's so important I think to your happiness and being feeling empowered in the role that you have. And so trying to find where you can have value alignment.

Adrienne White [00:03:16]: I'm doctor Adrienne White. I'm the director of student success coaching at George Mason University, and I use sheher pronouns. So as a black woman in higher education, I think mentorship is extremely important. Personally, did not have a mentor that helped me, and guide me through these processes. I kinda had to figure it out on myself, on my own. And so, you know, that's part of the drive for me to run the success coaching program at George Mason University because I wanna be able to make sure that all students have the resources and the support that they need to succeed. I also am very intentional with who I hire on my team. I have one of the most diverse teams at George Mason University because I knew it was important that my team needed to represent the student body.

Adrienne White [00:04:02]: We're one of the most diverse institutions in the country. Therefore, my team needed to reflect that as well. And so I prioritize who I hire and making sure that it's not just, you know, on look, it's on experiences, it's on background. It's it's encompassing everything to give everybody the opportunity, to work in student affairs because it's a field of belonging and inclusion, and it really starts at the top and making sure that we're intentional in our hiring decisions.

Susan Hua [00:04:33]: Hi. My name is Susan Hua. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm the director of diversity, equity, inclusion at the Community College of Aurora, which is an MSI HSI just outside of Denver, Colorado. Diversity, equity, inclusion plays a really, really big role for me when I job search or when I think about mentorship relationships or support. I think it's the foundation of everything that we do, and I know that with the current landscape of DEI being under attack in different states, it's ever more important for us to think about ways that we're centering DEI work for employees and for students, and to really think about how we're centering equity at the heart of the work that we're doing to embrace change for students in the future and to really ensure that higher education is open access for folks.

Aileen Hentz [00:05:12]: My name is Aileen Hentz. I'm at the University of Maryland as the program director of academic and student services. This is something that has been important to me since essentially day one, even long before I started my journey within higher education. I think for me, I'm looking for different opportunities and ways to better myself professionally by constantly expanding my network of support, places and people that I can, work and collaborate with to help better help students. I think also I've now, at this point, pushed harder. I don't just accept answers to questions that I don't think are fair or just. I try to see what I can do to help push an issue further, to really try to inspire broader and bigger change. To me, it's not just enough these days to just refer a student who's struggling with something to somewhere else, like our counseling center or our multicultural advocacy group. I still do that, but I also think to myself, well, what more can I do? And so I'll try to bring things to our department level and change policy within our department. And even within our diversity council at the college level, I'll bring different issues that I see or hear from my students to them to try and really push for change on a broader scale.

Stephen Rice [00:06:27]: Stephen Rice, director of the Office of Community Expectations at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, California. It's important to really that people are seen in your positions, and so really thinking about diversity, equity, inclusion should be a foundation and framework in all the work that we do, especially with those we hire because our students are diverse populations, and so they should see the people that they often meet with may look like them too. And so if everyone looks the same, they're not able to really provide a different unique experience and opportunity for students. Often times, there's a trust that students may have, and when they see someone that looks like them, they're able to go to those individuals and create more tools and other opportunities for them to really grow and reach and be mentored so they'd be successful students and work forward. And then it's also with the staff that we have. When you're the only one, it's tough. And so when you're able to bring a very diverse, unique experience, people feel supported, they feel seen, and they provide the same for the students that they serve.

Amy Adam [00:07:19]: Hi. This is Amy Adam and I am from the University of Missouri in Columbia. I have been a student services support manager for 20 years, serving graduate students with diversity, equity, and inclusion that does very much influence my approach to mentorship and support in my profession. We have a lot of international students that we make sure that they feel supported and connected to campus. And I know they face a lot of adversity coming from another country, especially in the Midwest, so we really strive to make sure that they feel supported. And I'm also doing some work with students with disabilities as I finish up my master's in higher ed. So that's been really, really just enjoyable and satisfying to help that population of students make sure that they feel connected to campus, that they feel that sense of belonging, and show them that they can advocate for themselves and have a voice because their voice matters. So, really, we just kinda try to keep that in our mindset in our daily work just to make sure that those students are supported.

Stephanie Cochrane [00:08:27]: Hi. I'm Stephanie Cochrane. I'm the director of student services at Northeastern University in Toronto. I'm here for NASPA for just the Sunday pre conference around graduate students. Well, one of my passion projects since I started in the role was a mentorship program, a peer mentorship program. And so thinking about our international students, they really are looking for mentorship, guidance, support, any advice from their peers, and they're more likely to listen to their peers than to us sometimes. So thinking about the DEI piece, they feel that sense of belonging when there's somebody who's been through a similar experience to them. So having them connected with a mentor from their very first semester before they even arrive in Canada is super helpful for them with not just understanding navigating the Canadian landscape, the Toronto city, the cost of living, and then, of course, their academic journey. So having that is a really helpful way to think about DEI because it's from that peer to peer support, which is sometimes missing in higher education.

Shatera Davis [00:09:28]: Hi. My name is Shatera Davis. I use sheher pronouns. I'm the director of student affairs at Northeastern in Seattle. I mean, it's embedded in my identity as a black person, as a queer person. I can't work in a space that doesn't have that as core values. And if I choose a place that's like that, then I can find really quickly that it doesn't align with my values. And so it's probably the one it's the most important thing because it's who I am visibly.

Shatera Davis [00:09:50]: And so as I move and as I navigate to different higher ed institutions, I'm very direct in my questions, like, what have they done for historically marginalized students? What do they do for staff? What did they do during the pandemic? How were they kind to their staff in this new remote era and hybrid era? Like, how are they giving their staff benefits? And, like, those kinds of things, I'm asking those intentional questions because I wanna make sure that I'm in alignment with the values. It doesn't mean the higher education institution is bad, it just means it's not right for me. And so I just make sure that it's always in alignment for me because it's personal. I mean, it's embedded in my identity as a black person, as a queer person. I can't work in a space that doesn't have that as core values. And if I choose a place that's like that, then I can find really quickly that it doesn't align with my values and so it's probably the one it's the most important thing because it's who I am visibly and so as I move and as I navigate to different higher ed institutions, I'm very direct. My question is, like, what have they done for historically marginalized students? What do they do for staff? What did they do during the pandemic? How were they kind to their staff in this new remote era and hybrid era? Like, how are they giving their staff benefits? And, like, those kinds of things, I'm asking those intentional questions because I wanna make sure that I'm in alignment with the values. It doesn't mean the higher education institution is bad, it just means it's not right for me, and so I just make sure that it's always in alignment for me because it's personal.

Andy Wiegert [00:11:12]: I am Andy Wiegert, director of graduate student affairs, Arts and Sciences, Washington University in St. Louis. Yes, this has to actually, in my opinion, start from the moment we are interviewing candidates for positions and bringing people to our campus is that everything should be looked at through the lens of equity and the lens of inclusion. And so from the start, my stance, our stance is to be asking those questions upfront. So how do you define anti racism? How do you define things like this? Will you be a fit to be an actual mentor who recognizes this need for diversity? So we're doing that at the very, very early stages. That then translates to training, development, things like that, but if we're not doing it out of the gates, then we're gonna run into problems down the road.

Scott Peska [00:12:01]: Hi. Scott Peska, Waubonsee Community College, Assistant Provost of Student Services. I think in all three of these areas, job searching, mentorship, and support for the profession of student affairs, there's probably nothing more important than equity and injustice and looking at place that you're looking at to the the values of the institution reflect what your values are and you know and so as a student affairs professionals something that has come to my heart is just making sure that we can care for all of our students and that we can try to help them succeed no matter what their background and making sure that we can put the necessary supports there. And so if the institution doesn't have those same values, we gotta be able to look at that. And so I've always looked at it when job searching. I think when mentoring, talking to individuals, making sure that I'm reaching out to be able to provide those kind of supports all across the way.

Dilna Cama [00:12:48]: Dilna Cama. I am a director within student life at the Ohio State University, and I am part of the off campus and commuter knowledge community. I think that is part of our everyday life. It has to be something that we have ingrained not in just the work that we do, but the language we use, how we work with our teams, making sure that they not only understand where their perspective is coming from, but how that impacts other individuals on a team, in a community, whatever that might look like.

Sabina Kapoor [00:13:21]: My name is Sabina Kapoor, and I'm currently a full time doctoral student with Capella University. I spent over 20 years in higher education as a staff within student affairs, student success, and academic affairs. So as I've progressed in my career, I've focused more on staff so that they can better serve students. And I wanna go in deep with that, so that's why I'm pursuing the doctorate relationship between the organization and the employee. I'm gonna reference Pamela Hayes' model. If you've ever the acronym is ADDRESSING, and so it's looking at different different categories from age to disability to religion to sexual orientation, sexual gender identification, etcetera. And so all these different categories, a person could potentially be, what Pamela Hayes says is oppressed in some categories and privileged in others. So, for example, as a minority woman who's heterosexual, I'm privileged in the sexual orientation, but I'm repressed in the gender category and also in the ethnic and cultural category.

Sabina Kapoor [00:14:32]: So it's interesting because idea of minoritized is not all one side, you are minoritized or you're not. It's kind of looking at different facets of that. So I say that because I use that as a premise with anything. So when I'm looking for a job, when I'm mentoring others, I try to remember inclusivity and look at things from the other's perspective. And I'll be honest, my oppressed areas have been like traditional ones. So with emerging ones, and I'm in a privileged position, it's really interesting. It's I had to see things from a privileged lens, and that was an interesting learning experience because I'd never been in that situation. So I say that because it's all shapes and influences all of this, how I mentor, how I support others and advocate. My last position, I was a dean for student success at a dual designated HBU and HSI. And I think advocacy was probably the top thing that I was doing while I was there. So so all that to say, DEI, it's not just my premise, it's who I am. So it really influences everything that what I do in my career.

Carlie Weaver [00:15:44]: Hello. I am Carlie Weaver with Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm a programs coordinator for the student activities in Union office. I did one of my assistantships with University of South Alabama during my grad school career, and so I did that with the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Office, and it's something that I like to think about a lot when I'm making decisions, especially with such a student facing role. I like to think of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging before I make pretty much any choice because I know that it is so influential in students' lives. So, even when I'm thinking about, like, what kind of programming to bring to campus, I'm thinking about the different populations that we have and what is of interest to those populations.

Roxanne Wright Watson [00:16:33]: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wright Watson. I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, and I'm happy to be here. I think it is not a matter of influencing because the bills of that will be paid. So so we need to make sure that it's for me, 1st and foremost, it is I think I just need to go to work, do what I gotta do, and go home. But having equity, diversity, and all of that within the institution is an added thing that now gives me help me to broaden my scope, help me to blossom, to bloom where I'm at. So it is an institution that support these values and goals, then I am more open. I give more of my self than it would be if I am just at an institution that is just not supportive of these values.

Carla Ortega Santori [00:17:34]: My name is Carla Ortega Santore. I work at Rice University. I am the strategic initiatives manager at the Doerr Institute For New Leaders at Rice University. And my job is really about helping students elevate their leadership capacity and to also elevate the capacity of all campuses to do really great leader developments in education. I'm actually from Puerto Rico, so whenever I'm looking for a job or when I'm looking for a mentor, I'm looking to see other familiar faces in the room, like, I'm seeing where I'm represented, seeing the kinds of students we work with. So that that's one thing I I usually look for. I also look for concrete ways, examples. I guess another way that influences my day to day professional life is when I also see I'm a IO psychologist by education, so I also look for research that's represented in that. So any evidence of impact, measurable outcomes that we see that are related to people of color and other underrepresented minorities is really important when I and I'm looking for any evidence based practices to apply, to implement with students, or for any support in the profession.

Rachael Amaro [00:18:55]: I'm Rachael Amaro. I'm the admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership within the College of Education at Cal State Fullerton. I think that, I mean, for sure with the mentorship piece, it's I have had a hard time finding people that I could rely on when I first started, but I think that's made me a little more active in trying to be a mentor to others. And I really appreciate the the trust that I can build with the team that I work with. You know, I have I have one immediate colleague in my department, but then all of us in in our college are on the same floor of the building we're in, and so it's been really great to get to know everybody and to make the time and the space for each other, and then because I've been there, for sure I've been on campus a lot longer than a lot of them, and so trying to let them know, you know, sort of what's what's going on, how to navigate things, especially because a lot of them, it's their first time working at a university, and I think it's really so important because most of us happen to be Latinx that a lot of the new hires have been, and so it's been really important to me to let them know things even about making sure sure they're putting money in their retirement, making sure they're doing these things that we just didn't necessarily always get taught. And even things as simple as, hey, when you're taking a vacation day, like, really take a vacation day. Use your time because you need to. Because we're so used to not being told how to navigate that from people in a supervisory positions who aren't used to the diversity that's coming up into the field. And so I think that's a really important part. Again, we talk about the hidden curriculum a lot for the students, but there's a hidden side for staff as well. And so when we come from families and parents who worked in factories and had a very different way of living and working, we also have to learn how to navigate these systems that we're now working in. And I think it's important to be able to share that with them so that they don't feel isolated or alienated and they feel like we're in this together.

Christine Wilson [00:21:00]: I'm Christine Wilson. I am in student affairs at UCLA. I have two roles. 1 is as the executive director for academic partnerships and the other is the program director for our masters in student affairs program. I think that justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion are at the forefront of everything that I do. It's a principle of our organization. It's part of the mission of our school of education where I'm program director and I teach. Our campus is incredibly diverse and if we don't consider that, then we are not serving our students. So if that's not something people are on board with, then they should not come to UCLA.

Olivia Ruggieri [00:21:42]: Hi there. My name is Olivia Ruggieri. I'm the associate director of administration operations for Northeastern University Seattle campus. I grew up in Pennsylvania, went to college in Florida, and came out here in 2013, but I've been working for the university since 2018. Well, my area, while we are definitely not HR, we do support searches on our campus. So one of my staff members, he will assist hiring managers in doing an inch initial evaluation of candidates and then help them design their searches. But recognizing that while we've made improvements in this area, we're not doing it as well as we could be. This summer, we're gonna be establishing a group that will ultimately create a set of DEI hiring standards, and we wanna make sure that there's strong representation from all types of folks on our campus, faculty, staff, and hopefully students, to ensure that we're hiring in the most equitable way. And I have to say that, like, since this has become a focus of mine, I look at job descriptions differently and just what I've learned about how to hire equitably and certain phrases raise flags for me because I realized that they may not represent welcomeness to all. So it's just become part of my practice and how I evaluate different opportunities.

Christle Foster [00:23:04]: Hi. My name is Christle Foster and I'm from Chesapeake College located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in Y Mills. When it comes to my staff, because of the work that we do, so student focused, definitely diversity, equity, and inclusion is a part of that, especially with the populations we serve in Trio. That's definitely what we do as part of our mission. So when it comes to choosing staff and helping staff go through professional development, that's some of the things that we always look at. Whether it's in terms of ethnicity, accessibility, or ability, or unabilities in regards to education. We recently did, training with the University of Delaware who has a special program that's focused on students who are new or divergent, and it was exemplary. What they are doing there with a grant is just amazing. So we were able to get some information from them on how to help our students who are neurodivergent, or some of them are on spectrum, so to speak.

Nathalie Waite Brown [00:24:03]: My name is Nathalie Waite Brown. I am the assistant dean of students and director for graduate student life at Stevens Institute of Technology located in Hoboken, New Jersey. I think I approach those areas first and foremost from a personal perspective, notwithstanding all of the visible identities that I carry, I'm a 1st generation student, parents who migrated to the US in the early seventies. So I work with a large international student population, and I take those identities very much in leading how I work with them and being able to understand the potential need that's in front of them. And that runs the gamut. It's not limited to who I am, but also having a level of empathy and support in guiding the work and the resources that students need.

Dae'lyn Do [00:24:50]: My name is Dae'Lyn Do. I use sheher pronouns, and I am the associate director for the women in science and engineering residence program at the University of Michigan. And I am coming into the position of the WISA KC co chair. I think specifically when it comes to mentorship, something I always take into consideration that I do try to do myself, but I also encourage my students to do is to seek out a variety of different mentors who have different lived experiences. And so not just, I think we oftentimes talk about finding mentors who look like us or who share similar identities with us, which is really important, but I also think it's important to seek out folks who maybe don't because we learn different perspectives and different ways of looking at things that we might not if we just rely on the people who have the same lived experiences as us. And so, I think when it comes to thinking through our own efforts of justice and equity, our mentors are the people that we learn from and so trying to diversify our own support network is the best way to kind of get those different experiences and support.

Natalie DeRosa [00:25:55]: So my name is Natalie DeRosa, and I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. I would say that those two terms, justice and equity, are central when I am doing job searching. Not only how the organization embraces those concepts, but also the person who is my direct support, that they are equity minded and justed justice minded themselves makes or breaks whether or not I feel like that organization is the right organization for me.

Dan Volchek [00:26:25]: Dan Volchek, assistant dean of student success at Harvard Griffin Grad School of Arts and Sciences. I look at DEI as a very important piece of dealing with my job search, mentorship, and support. I try to look at what we're doing with both our faculty, our staff, and our students in the DEI world and making sure we're addressing all of those issues and challenges that others may be facing that I may not have faced to make sure that I'm dealing with DEI in a positive manner.

Vaughn Calhoun [00:27:00]: Vaughn Calhoun, Seton Hall University, hehim. Yeah. I think looking for places and people with high social emotional intelligence, knowing that any place that I would think about or people I wanna engage with, that there's a high sense of empathy to help build those lasting relationships. Because I think without the empathy, it's it's hard to really move to higher levels of conversation. So if you could find that in organization and people, you found something really good.

Darlene Robinson [00:27:37]: My name is Darlene Robinson. I'm the RISE gen 1 director for Seton Hall University. I think it influences the career in the sense that I want to be on a level playing field. I wanna be considered as a person that is capable of certain things rather than just basing it off of filling a quota. I think it is fair enough to accept people for who they are and get to know them for them them as a person first before not even before, but without passing judgment based on certain discriminatory practices. Because in doing that, you get to know the person first and understand that we're all connected in some way.

Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:28:20]: Hello. My name is Miguel Angel Hernandez. I am the associate vice president and dean of students at San Francisco State University. What attracted me to student affairs to begin with is my curiosity about humans and human beings. And what has sustained me 24 years in this profession at this point in my life has been the curiosity that continues about the people I get to interact with, the students that continue to change and evolve and allow me to grow, and in many ways, stay young because we have to keep up, not keep up in a bad way, but just it is never a dull moment learning from our students, learning from our colleagues. And so when I think about DEI work, I think about my curiosity about life and how we evolve as people. I think about my own journey, how different I am today than when I first moved into my residence hall. I think about the beautiful places I've been able to visit and serve and work and the stories of those people, those places, those moments in time.

Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:29:17]: And so for me, DEI work is not about difference. It is about the stories of people, the stories of places that we get to visit and explore and learn. And so for me, I really think about that when I am mentoring, coaching, supervising, engaging with students. I think about it in my own search. As I consider opportunities, I think about what do I bring into spaces, what can I gain from spaces, And I use those thoughts to formulate questions for either the individuals that are asking me to consider a position and or while I am engaging in the search process? And so those types of aspects of diversity, equity, and inclusion, I think, keep that work very centered, very front, and create opportunities for us to continue again learning and growing in our profession.

David Chao [00:30:07]: Hello. My name is David Chao. My pronouns are hehim. I serve as the director of IT for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, and I'm also the chair of the technology knowledge community. As a first generation Asian American, you know, it's really important for me. I think coming to higher education from the corporate world, I think I've seen and been exposed to a very healthy environment where we're trying to be more open to all ideas and diversity is really, really important. It's strange because being an Asian American, as a minority, you think I'd be more sensitive to that, but I guess I didn't really always see that. And so I feel like my eyes are much more open to it, and my ability to help others and mentor and foster a collaborative and diverse environment, which is a challenge in our society today.

Melinda Stoops [00:30:47]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I serve as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. I think even though I've been in student affairs for a long time, I feel like this is one area that I consider a growth area. I am a middle aged white woman, and my background and my experiences certainly are related to my identity in in many ways. And I feel like the longer I'm in higher ed, the more I'm interacting with increasingly a more diverse student body, the more I have to learn. And so I just feel like as I do my work, whether it's being supervised or supervising, whether it's mentoring or being mentored, I feel like increasingly I really focus on being open to not making assumptions either about the other person, but also not making assumptions that even if I'm in a mentoring role that I have all the answers. That really, I have a lot to learn as well and taking time to really understand the person I'm working with and where they're coming from and their perspectives and sort of maximizing the impact we can both have on each other.

Derek Grubb [00:31:54]: Derek Grubb, Dean of Enrollment Management for Red Rocks Community College in Colorado. In terms of justice and equity, one of the biggest things I've been trying to do lately is really recognize to avoid agendas. And not so much agendas and meetings, but agendas in terms of having a predetermined outcome and really accepting people where they are and being able to really just sort of embrace those opportunities for challenging conversations and looking for new perspectives. So up on my wall right now is the, no agendas policy.

Matt Imboden [00:32:28]: My name is Matt Imboden. I use the he, him pronouns. I serve as the chief student services officer in the School of Business at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And, for the past few years, I've also been chairing the administrators and graduate and professional student services knowledge community for NASPA. All those things I want. The funny thing about diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice work is it's one in the same with overall student success, sense of belonging, it's a 100% connected to student well-being. And so, sometimes I think we create these bifurcations and divisions and we create this little bucket and label it, you know, diversity programming. But especially as I think there's a lot of renewed pressures on those roles and leaders with the people that are exponents of those values that are institutions. It's even more important to just talk about the ways in which, no, our ability to recruit and retain students is one in the same with being good at that work. And for some reason, I think it takes on a life of its own or becomes a bit of a specter when people try to apply those labels in only certain places. But if we wanna win as institutions in the 21st century in the marketplaces we work in, you gotta figure out how all the things you just mentioned apply to your day in day out work.

Evette Castillo Clark [00:33:36]: Evette Castillo Clark, vice president for student life and dean of students at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon. So this is super important and critical because with job searching, with mentoring, and our profession, it is really important for us to have diverse professionals, diverse thinking, embracing different perspectives because it makes us rich, and it makes the whole organization stronger. So in our recruitment procedures, one of my things is that I want to make sure that whoever is, for example, sharing a search, that you've worked every angle to make sure that you have racial diversity, gender diversity, regional diversity, just a broad spectrum of backgrounds to get to the semifinalist pool and then also to try to get to the finalist pool. You make every effort to do that, and I employ that same model with student leadership. So in elections or looking at who do we want on our student employment to employ as student workers, orientation leaders, RAs. You want that to be a cross section because if you're doing community building work, you have to have leadership that looks like the people that you serve.

Madeline Frisk [00:34:48]: Hello. My name is Madeline Frisk. I work at Portland State University. I'm the coordinator of student government relations and advisor to Greek life. So I work with our student government, all of the committees and groups within that, as well as 4 strong and mighty small Greek life groups as well. I would say I especially think of diversity, equity, and inclusion in terms of how I support students and show up. At PSU, we have a lot of non traditional students. We're also becoming an emerging HSI and Anapisa institution. So I think about how I'm showing up and my identities, how I can better serve students, and I try to stay well informed, read, do a lot of research and background work so that I'm showing up for them and also try to provide them all the training that I can. It also helps to have other coworkers and people you can rely on to kind of fill in any gaps too. So I think that's really helped as well having people and allies in your life that you can rely on as well as, good coworkers and team as well as kind of with the support in the profession of student affairs. I recently started a book club at our institution within our LGBT affinity employee resource group and that's really helped me to kind of also build even more support for myself in this work and also people who I know I can rely on that can be additional supports for my students. So that's been really great.

Gene Zdziarski [00:36:15]: This is Gene Zdziarski. I'm vice president for student affairs at DePaul University. I think it's been one of the things that I find in my career trying to find a place where that sense of diversity and inclusion really is embraced and a part of things. I work at a Catholic university, and a lot of people have different opinions about the Catholic faith and everything else, but what I have to say is when I interviewed for the job there, one of the things I wanted to make sure was that, again, there was a sense of diversity, appreciation, and openness. We had an LGBTQA center. We had, LGBTQ studies. We have embraced other faiths and people, and that was extremely important to me. And I think something that perhaps people don't always look at when they look at a faith based institution, but I think you'll find that, again, that's an important piece of higher education, an important piece of our work in my career in student affairs.

Lyza Liriano [00:37:10]: Hello. My name is Lyza Liriano. I currently serve as an area coordinator at DePaul University in Housing and Residence Life. Originally, I am from Brooklyn, New York. It influences it a it a lot. I'm a queer woman of color, and so I want to make sure that the spaces that I walk into are going to be spaces where I feel safe and where there are students that look like me so that they know that they can come to me. My identity is very intersectional, and I think that that's one of my favorite parts of my identity, and there's been spaces that I've stepped into where I've had to choose, okay, am I going to focus on being a black woman today? Am I going to focus on being a queer woman today? And so creating those spaces of you can be all of that at once. And when I'm job searching, that is something that I'm very intentional about asking is what work do you do apart from sending students to the Black Student Center or the LGBTQ Student Center? What is your department actually doing to help these students? And so I also want it to be just someone that students can come to because I've been in spaces where I'm sometimes the only woman of color, and so I wanna make sure my students know, like, I'm creating space for myself so that in, you know, years to come when my students are out in the field, hopefully in student affairs, they also are going to have multiple seats at the table not just the one.

Jackie Cetera [00:38:28]: Jackie Cetera. I use sheher pronouns, and I serve as the director of residential education at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. I find it's all in how people show up in their day to day and what they're doing to not only support students on our campus, but also employees, both faculty and staff. When we talk about the sense of belonging, I believe that it's really important for us as leaders, as our institutions to make sure that our faculty and staff have a sense of belonging so they can show up and do good work and provide opportunities and spaces for our students to also find that sense of belonging.

Lisa Landreman [00:39:15]: My name is Lisa Landerman. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. Similarly, I stay abreast of current issues. I am doing my own work through institutes, 1 on 1 consulting and every opportunity I can to talk with other colleagues around best practices, most effective strategies. I I also really try to center relationships so that there's this there's the book learning and research of our trends, but then there's also every individual's gonna have their own experience and their multiple identities that are gonna shape their experience at our particular institution. So, how I handle that and manage kind of issues of justice and equity, whether it's around language, practices, programs, initiatives in Oregon is different than when I was in Rhode Island, is different when I was at the University of Michigan. And so I think context matters, listening to our staff, again, creating space, trying to support affinity relationships for where that matters to people, sure that we are constantly looking at our policies, practices through an equity lens. And so every time we're writing a new policy, we look at that lens.

Lisa Landreman [00:40:27]: At least once a year, we take a moment to reflect on new programs, policies, or practices to ask questions. Who's at this event? Who does this impact? Who who's included? Whose voice was at the table when we created it? So all those kinds of checklists that come with looking at the subtle ways that the work that we do might impact people that of groups we're not members for some ways. Celebrating and recognizing heritage month's accomplishments of diverse folks in in our both in our community. I think in hiring, we do a lot to look at what biases do we bring, what biases we have that might not be about race, but that biases we have about the field or the job that might have an impact on people from different racial groups or identity groups. Right? And so it isn't always so overt, so I think doing our work around. Before every search, we do we we really come to the table and say, so what are our biases about? And we look at a resume. And, you know, we really scrutinize our job descriptions to make sure do are all those qualifications really necessary? Is that many years of experience really necessary? Are we really waiting what can really be learned on the job, and what really do people have to have experience coming? So those are those are all ways that we subtly sort of can bias our searches. Those are just some I could go on and on, but I I think the important point about this is that especially in this time, regardless of what's happening with legislators, we as individuals can shape our own practice to demonstrate where these values matter regardless of what offices aren't allowed to be in my campus. That's still a battle we need to fight. And just because that battle's being fought, doesn't mean it stops us from doing centering that as an important value.

Jackie Yun [00:42:08]: Hi. I'm Jackie Yun. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the Harvard Griffin GSAS Student Center. I think it impacts everything. So I really am somebody who believes that DEI is not just held with folks that have that in their title, but it's really the responsibility of everyone at an institution to be considering that. And I think about this from my own experiences, whether or not I feel like I'm included in a community, but also in my management, my hiring, the way that I scaffold spaces for students, and so I think it's really important work.

Leanna Fenneberg [00:42:44]: Hello. This is Leanna Fenenberg. I'm the incoming chief student affairs officer at Duquesne University. Oh my gosh. Isn't that a big question? Right? I mean, I feel like for most of us, for many of us in student affairs, DEI work is at the core of our values and what we do and why we do it. So it's to professional searches, to professional development, to building a community of support for our students and for our staff. And so it is central to everything we do.

Jake Murphy [00:43:16]: Jake Murphy. I'm the director of prospective students services at OSU Institute of Technology, and I am over all recruitment and retention efforts at the university. So for me, it's probably a really big thing, but it's really tough in the state that I'm at because there's a whole mess concerning DEI work and justice and equity and inclusion work. So for me personally, it's a big factor in where I choose to go to work. I wanna make sure that the environment that I'm at is focused on making sure that the whole student is taken care of, but being place bound sometimes it makes it a little bit difficult. But also creating those environments is also really key and making sure that students feel supported, that they have a sense of community, and are able to be able to go through their out their student journey is extremely important. And mentorship for us, especially in, like, peer mentorship is very important to be able to create those spaces.

Larry Pakowski [00:44:13]: Larry Pakowski. I'm the vice president for student engagement, inclusion, and success at Aims Community College in Greeley, Colorado. I think we've gotta to look at the students we serve and at the end of the day that's one of the things that we want to be reflective of who we serve but we also want to embrace the the variety of different diverse cultures and backgrounds and things like that. Not only our students have, but our employees should have as well.

Jillaine Zenkelberger [00:44:37]: Hi. I'm doctor Jillaine Zenkelberger. I am the program coordinator over at Graduate Student Life at the University of Notre Dame. I think in my approach to all of these things, having the ability to touch base with a lot of people from different I don't have a master's in higher ed and things like that. Being able to see the diversity in our different backgrounds both educationally, but also racially, ethnically, etcetera, has been super important to me. And I think we bring all these different things to the table, and it's really been great to learn from everyone and their backgrounds of whatever they've done in their past lives, because I know all of us have many past lives sometimes. They're all bringing something, like, super important that I think is really invigorating student affairs because I work with a lot of people who's had past lives and they're really changing things in a lot of cool ways.

Kristen Merchant [00:45:48]: Hi everyone. I'm Kristen Merchant. I am from Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I am the associate director of the Union and Student Activities Office there and also the director of our lead programs. With job searching, I think about whenever I'm doing my hiring actually for orientation. We always put an effort into putting a cohesive team together of a variety of different backgrounds and interests and majors and all the different ways that diversity can come into play. So that way, all of our new incoming students can see a face that they recognize, which is really, really important in the DEI world and is something that we always consider in any type of our hiring practices and any type of programming that I do is making sure that there is someone that they feel like they can go to.

Joe Lizza [00:46:35]: My name is doctor Joe Lizza. I'm the director of the Chamberlain Student Center and campus activities at Rowan University in New Jersey. It really is the idea that you want an institution that is respectful for others, supportive of others because you never know when you might be on that opposite side of the situation. So you might be in an institution or in a job role that you feel very comfortable, supported and you feel like you belong and it's very easy to kinda based on a different supervisor or a different university leadership, that could shift. I always look for places that really are respectful, very forward thinking, and they don't only just preach what their beliefs are and their values, but they also put them into action. And that's kinda reassuring to me as a professional in higher education for both for myself and my colleagues. I'm realizing that it's a good place to work, a place that will be supportive of life changes and different situations.

Joshua Allred [00:47:32]: My name's Joshua Allred. I work at Louisiana State University in the College of Agriculture as their manager of student services. That's challenging. It's certainly something that is on my mind constantly. I think living in Louisiana and in the South where there's lots of legislation recently, sort of very much anti DEI has been a challenge. So I'm not in a place where I can kind of up and move, unfortunately. I would in some ways, I kinda wish I could. So being on a campus and in a state where there's lots of uncertainty around, like, what does DEI look like in our state has been a challenge.

Joshua Allred [00:48:01]: And so we are very much in a place of kind of waiting to see what's gonna happen next. And again, I think finding folks where folks and groups of people where you can hold onto and feel safe and find little beacons of hope is helpful. It's not always there, but I'm a supervisor for an LGBTQIA plus organization in the College of Agriculture and that's been really helpful for me and something that I really knew and renewed importance in. And so that's kind of what I look towards is like the people and and the small things here and there. But certainly a consideration is just tough. It's tough when you can't move.

Joshua Allred [00:48:38]: Well, one of the things that I really enjoy about my job is being able to support and work with students, and those are all students, ethnicities, genders. Just being able to support those students in coming to NASPA and being able to learn from experts on how to best support students no matter who they are, no matter where they're from. So at Texas A&M, they give me the opportunity to go to professional development. They give me the opportunity to collaborate with my peers around the country. And during those times, that's what I wanna do. I'm always making sure that I'm talking to the experts in the field to make sure that I'm doing the best to support our students.

Judy Traveis [00:49:28]: Hi, everyone. I'm Judy Traveis. I'm the associate dean for the Graduate Student Success Center at the University of Florida. Again, from Florida, we've had DEI impacted, although we all believe in the diversity and what it brings to our campus and the inclusion and and equity piece. I believe institutions that do it well and thread it through all factors of the university, you can really see it. It's tangible and that in as I job search or look for other careers, if I should move institutions, that is something that's very important and I hold as a value in my heart to make sure that that it's not just on a website, that you can actually physically see how it's threaded through by the way the community and culture is on that campus.

Katie Caponera [00:50:23]: I'm Katie Caponera, director of student life at Harvard Divinity School. A commitment to all of those tenants, particularly justice, is really important to me personally and professionally. I'm fortunate to work at an institution where that is a key aspiration and goal of our community, and it's something that I would continue to foreground in looking at other types of institutions or future colleagues or partners. It's making sure all of our students feel that it's a space where they can thrive and be their full selves is of paramount importance and continuing to remain dedicated to those efforts, especially admit so much turmoil, I think, is underlines their importance more so.

Kathy Dilks [00:51:11]: My name is Kathy Dilks, and I am the director of graduate student and post doctoral affairs at the Icahn to create a team that is not only diverse, but diverse of thoughts. I think it's our responsibility to make certain that we are leaning into DEIB, and I try my hardest to make certain that I am never an impediment in that future.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:51:47]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, vice president for student success for the university Indiana University. It's not really a system. It's a multi campus university, but we can say Indiana University System if that's easier for folk to kind of place the role. It's interesting the word considerations. How do considerations of, show up for me, good and bad, before I can lean into anything else. And I think that's a step we don't often do, particularly and we just jump into, oh, oh, well, of course, you know, Jedi work is important, and of course we're gonna do that. But because we don't stop and pause pause and think and unlearn a lot of what we know, we end up rushing to action so quickly, we cause more harm. And so I think that first step for me, because the question is influence your, is to pause, think, and remember that I have to be okay with who I am, good and bad, take the steps to do my own work, and then bring others into the fold, like, okay.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:52:54]: What are the resources we need in meaningful ways so that the work can move through always a lens of equity. So being an equity minded organization, human, professional, friend, partner, all the different components of your life.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:10]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:51]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Empowering Student Voices: 

The Digital Transformation The use of social media in higher education has evolved from a platform for personal expression to a crucial tool for professional development and student engagement. Dr. Josie Ahlquist shared her expertise on digital leadership, emphasizing how social media gives students and educators alike the power to craft their own narratives. Gone are the days when online behavior was solely interpreted through a lens of fear; instead, we must encourage responsible and purposeful digital engagement.

Revolutionizing Campus Culture:

From Traditional to Trailblazing The episode highlighted the need to transcend traditional roles and embrace the flexible, interconnected nature of campus culture. The drive to humanize the workplace converges with the desire to inspire meaningful mentorship and collaboration, both within student affairs and across various campus departments. 

A Visionary Approach to Student Engagement

Dr. Alquist's curriculum, based on the social change model, teaches students to harness social media's potential for advocacy, community building, and change. Meanwhile, Dr. Jill Creighton's research brings to light the positive impact of social media on academic success, further advocating for its inclusion in student support strategies.

Leading by Example:

The Entrepreneurial Leap in Higher Education Chronicling her journey from campus professional to CEO, Dr. Alquist offers a candid look at the challenges and mental health tolls of entrepreneurial endeavors. Her experience underscores the importance of self-reflection, support systems, and the willingness to take risks - foundational elements that redefine professional growth in student affairs.

An Invitation to Shape the Future

Dr. Ahlquist and Dr. Creighton invite you to reflect on their own relationship with social media and its integration into higher education, encouraging continuous adaptation to the digital habits of a new generation of students. This conversation not only serves as a call to action for today's educators but a bridge to the untapped potential of tomorrow's student affairs landscape.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, essay voices. Welcome back for our next episode, and I'm going to be bringing back something that we haven't done in a little while, which is a crossover episode with another podcast. You'll hear us talk about this in the heart of the show, but we are doing a crossover today with doctor Josie Alquist's podcast called Josie and the podcast. So the part one of this conversation drops on her show feed, and this is part 2 of that conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: But first, let me introduce you to Josie. Dr. Josie Alquist guides educational leaders, organizations, and students to practice purpose full digital leadership through speaking, coaching, and consulting. Her practical evidence based frameworks empower clients to build and implement a digital engagement strategy that fits their life, audience, and purpose. Josie's work is grounded in the grant funded and award winning research that has allowed her to train 1,000 around the globe as a speaker, providing consulting services to institutions and companies, and coach professionals in branding, voice, and positioning. Josie's work has appeared in the Handbook Student Affairs Dialogues on Equity, Civility, and Safety. She also served as a co editor and author of The New Directions in Student Services volume, Engaging the Digital Generation and the New Directions in Student Leadership Volume, Going Digital in Student Leadership. In 2023, Dr. Alquist was selected as a NASPA pillar of the profession, one of the highest honors in our field in student affairs. She's a 3 time LinkedIn top voice in education and has been recognized by EdTech Magazine as one of the top 50 must read higher education technology blogs for 5 years.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: Her podcast, Josie and the Podcast, has been featured by the Chronicle of Higher Education and Inside Higher Ed. Her new book, Digital Leadership in Higher Education, Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World, was listed as number 1 on Amazon's new release list for college and university student life. She received her EDD in education from Cal Lutheran and an MED in counseling from Northern Arizona with a BA in psychology and human development and family studies from South Dakota State University. Prior to her independent path, Josie spent nearly 15 years on college campuses in areas of student leadership, student activities, residence life, and student affairs communications and marketing. She previously served as a research associate and instructor at Florida State University Leadership Learning Research Center, where her curriculum builds digital literacy and leadership skills for undergraduates to doctoral students. For more information about Josie's research, speaking, coaching, and consulting, you can find her at www.josiealquist.com. That's josiea hlquist.com. You can also connect with Josie on Instagram, LinkedIn, X, and Facebook.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:07]: Josie, I'm so excited to continue our conversation.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:03:10]: I get, like, a half day with you today. It is so delightful. I need this every month.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:15]: And this is a double episode because Josie just interviewed me on her show, which dropped yesterday. Do you wanna plug that real quick?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:03:24]: So my podcast is Josie and the podcast, and I get to interview amazing guests like Jill and talk about the intersection of marketing, communication, social media, and how to be a human on and offline.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:37]: How to be a human. That is a lesson that we are all continually relearning, I think. It's hard. It's hard. But it's a joy to have you on the show today because you have such an incredible breadth of experience in higher education both as an on campus professional and as a campus partner. As I mentioned in your bio, you recently received the Pillar of the Profession award, which is tremendous. You've authored a book. You've built an entire business that works directly with higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: But it didn't all start there. And so looking forward to hearing more about all of your transitions in career and the choices that you've made along the way to stay connected and anchored into the student affairs profession while serving a gap, that definitely exists in our profession. Let's start at the beginning. How did you find your way onto campus?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:04:27]: Well, the minute I step foot on a campus, whether if it was a tour or where I ended up going to college at South Dakota State, I was hooked. The talents were in and I was one of those freshmen probably on a coffee table yelling, I love college. And, I don't go on coffee tables anymore because that could really hurt my knees. But I just absolutely loved it. The energy, the exploration, the exploration, the involvement, and had really great mentors that were like, well, Chelsea, it's not all the fun stuff of being an orientation leader. There's there's actually a lot of, you know, operations, but I found my way through that too. And also found my way as social media arrived on our campuses that I was really comfortable playing in the sandbox along with a lot of a lot of change. So from my roots in student affairs over 12 years at different campuses, I'm based in Los Angeles.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:05:23]: My last institution was Loyola Marymount and I also have always education is such a core identity of who I am and, values. Early on, my mom or my grandma and grandpa saying you gotta get your education, kid. And I just always knew I wanted to get my doctorate. And so the doctorate was kind of a spark that started a fire.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:05:48]: I didn't ever realize. I can pause there. I can keep going. I don't know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:53]: Well, your dissertation I think we share this in our stories that our dissertations really led to career changes, which is fascinating. Your dissertation was on social media behavior with undergraduate students. What did you learn from that?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:06:06]: I still feel like I am a interpreter of culture and generations and the internet And around 2013 is when I started my program, and then it was a very it was packed a diminished view of students' use of technology and especially for student leaders, I would hear a lot of talk about assuming students were doing the worst things possible online and I wasn't seeing that with my students. It went against, I feel like, who we are as practitioners that we're putting all this work into empowering them and giving them the tools and we know developmentally and you worked in conduct, you get it, you see that process, but we were making a lot of assumptions out of fear and so I wanted to know what were they really doing online, if it was as bad as we thought or not, because this also was the time where it was super black and white. Do not even look at your student stuff, don't let them connect with you. Some places, you still couldn't even have accounts as departments. It was it was very much scare tactics. And, honestly, that was one of the discoveries in my focus groups. Students would talk about their whole lives that they were educated about social media with fear. To catch a predator came up.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:41]: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:07:42]: Like, literally. And what was also so fascinating was they learned lessons based upon how the people in their lives older than them were making mistakes and or their peers, so they were just having to learn this stuff on the flight. Like, imagine dropping Josie, who grew up in Wyoming, on the 405 in LA without ever of driving in in a city before. You woulda had to tow my car out of there. I'm sorry. I just didn't have those skills, and sometimes that's what we're doing and or telling me before I get to LA how it you're gonna adapt you're not gonna make it unless you do x y z, and that kinda broke my heart a little bit. Like, again, we give so much and it's not even about, like, positive psychology but just tell them what to do then. What do you want them to do online? Like, they were so desperate that then they would say, well, this is how my RD, I've noticed, uses Facebook.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:08:36]: So maybe that's how an adult does Facebook even though there is no one way. We know that. Right? We get to make a million choices and so what came from that was a set of curriculum. I wanted to be able to share. I'm a I'm a sharer and this could be a framework you could teach your students And that also is what led then to me speaking to a lot of students in a new way because a lot of times they'd come to, like, my keynote or it to, like, get on LinkedIn or start a blog, share my story. No one told me I could share, but in a purposeful way. So I use the social change model as the framework in both the curriculum, but also what I was looking for. If the student leaders that we were putting so much investment in, if they were actually using those skills on social.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:09:37]: And I think the individual skills was definitely shown. Group skills are more harder. It was the time of the ice bucket challenge, so there was that kind of expression. Yeah. But overall, with a couple exceptions, they were they were using these tools in productive ways and I still think that holds true today that we need to give youth more credit than I think we're just assuming other tool. And so I just really got on a soapbox, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:03]: If it's a topic you're passionate about, this is good. But I'll give a shout out to doctor Jason Foster, Positive Use of Social Media and Their Academic Success. And that was kind of similar to what you were seeing, a time where I was using social media to connect and build relationships with people. This is before it was a dumpster fire all the time, I think. And we were hearing the narrative that social media was so bad. And so we thought we wanted to contribute to the literature in a way that reflected, well, there's obviously some benefits here. Let's talk about them. And we found that students were using social media to be academically successful in group projects, which was a really interesting twist.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: And, you know, we ended up getting cited in the handbook of qualitative research, I think, or social media research, something like that. And I was like, wow. I didn't think this was that profound, but it's nice to

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:10:58]: This is blowing my mind because I'm fairly positive I cited that paper.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:03]: And now That's really funny.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:11:04]: Source because I'm like, wait.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:11:08]: That's amazing. And but I think the one lesson looking back because it was so extreme that there was this negativity. I stayed in that positive, purposeful place because we know now 10 years later, there are so many ethical issues and concerns and things that need to change and are problematic that things are different. 10 years cycle.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:31]: So let's talk about those transitions then because Yeah. In in our theme of transitions, we've seen all sorts of things from our guests in different personal transitions. But one of the transitions I appreciate from your perspective is this longitudinal arc of how students are using social media, what the concerns are from different generations of students with social media use, and the trends that you're seeing for how student affairs professionals can actually connect with students because I know they don't want us on TikTok.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:12:02]: They do if you meet the culture and the content for that platform. If you show up like you would in an email or on LinkedIn, give them the ick. Like, let that you know, it'd be cringe and I think this is where the concept of time right now kind of blows my mind. I feel like I'm still in my thirties, that I am full blown ahead in my forties. Right? And the longer we're in these positions and we see lots of students come and go, but we can sometimes forget how much has changed in 10 years. So the students in my study, and a lot of them I'm still connected with and some of them are higher ed pros now, they are now full into millennials and we still are thinking about those students and sometimes communicating like those are still our students and meeting them on platforms that we were for example, Facebook groups were big back then. We still have people trying to keep Facebook groups alive for 1st year students, like class of whatever. I'm like, honey, they're on Discord.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:13:03]: They've made a subreddit of you already. The pacing is so much different of these other platforms and so that needs, our side needs to change. They've also grown up even further back than the students in my studies. So as early as when they were born, potentially, the second they came out, they had a paper trail, Good or bad? And we are also seeing more students come or preteens, teens, young adults having more frustrations that then they didn't get say in what their digital identity was early on and or we are also seeing them double down and become influencers on different platforms whether that's a micro influencer just talking about makeup or running or a million other things And so, we might be inviting new students to our campuses. They have influence that we didn't in college in addition to access, so lots of communications. I do think that education and curriculum has improved but honestly the majority of it is their own self. Education and peer education tends to be always some of the strongest factors. I think the other thing that's also who grew up with social media early in their careers and so now they are their own kind of digital natives in executive roles.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:14:35]: I had previous vice presidents that wouldn't touch any tools, let alone know what they are or be willing to access them. So I think 2 things are happening at once, both what our students are doing and what it's impacting our profession and future leaders use or even misuse.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:52]: We are all over the place as a profession in terms of our level of comfort with having a digital identity or digital footprint, as well as our level of capacity or skill base for how that's going for folks. You know, some of us are all in on all platforms. Some of us are partway in on some platforms and all in on others. And some of us are like, you just said Discord. What is that? So there's a level of all of these things. Right? Like, I'm on Discord. I'm on Slack.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:21]: I'm in the YouTube space. TikTok was banned in the country I was last in, so couldn't be on there. But Douyin was allowed, which is, like, the counterpart in the country. But there's also social media that is huge in other parts of the world that a lot of Americans have never heard of or use. Like, WeChat is, like, a tool of life

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:15:39]: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:40]: In a lot of Asia. Yes. And and you can't function without a WeChat account. It's where all the information is. So given all of this major big landscape, how would you recommend that student affairs professionals who want to gain digital skills and don't necessarily feel like they know how to do that go about the process.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:15:59]: I think just like how our students are sorting it out and how we seek out mentors and sponsors is to find those yourself. And the nice thing is you can just kind of lurk and scroll on your own, but I do highly encourage people to actually reach out, right? Like if someone aspires to be like you, I aspire to be like you, Joe. But I have a podcast or again, like, working internationally, like, reach out. Use the access not just for the likes and comment. That is my number one advice when students are doing their doctorate or masters. You have a secret sauce that somehow gets taken away after you graduate is that you just say you're a student, people will take your calls more often for guidance and mentorship and so I called up a lot of the people I was citing or just people that were talking a lot about social media and tech to ask some questions and now they're some of my closest colleagues and even friends. And so I guess my advice is you have to take it offline. You really do have to take the relationship piece.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:17:01]: The tools can be a spark, but they are not the source to keep it sustainable.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:07]: You wrote a book recently that was listed as number 1 for new college releases, which is very exciting, on Amazon, Digital Leadership and Higher Education, Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World. Now I don't want you to have to rehash your whole book, but I'm wondering if you have nuggets for professionals who are aspiring to increase their professional digital presence, both for their campuses and for the field.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:17:31]: Write the book. If you wanna write the book, make sure it's in the right place. The reason why you think you want to write a book, my number one piece of advice is write it with someone else. Or it might be great, maybe I was the queen of committee work. I loved it. I was good at it but also then I was, like, I just wanna close myself in my office and be alone. A book project where you're already with working with so many people, it might be a glorious thing for you to get to do something on your own. I would also say just like you need to rearrange the furniture of your life when you do your doctorate, a book will be the same that you will need to and or it's just not gonna get done.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:18:09]: And I would say what I have learned is make it a living thing. What I don't like about books is then they are printed and you can't change it like you can on the Internet. Mhmm. And my book is already very outdated. And I have to think about how do I keep contributing to that topic or leave it entirely and or what is the future versions of it, whether if it's me that's contributing or other people. And I think maybe that's just a lifelong learner in me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:38]: So now let's jump back because you are one of the most, I think, beautifully present people in the campus partner space. We know you well. We see you often. We see you engage with professionals both on and off campus. But that transition was, I think, a scarier leap when you made it than I think it's a little more common now. Tell us about making the determination to discontinue campus based work and, as you put it, accidentally build a business.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:19:08]: Yes. I think I blogged about this and shared a bit on my podcast, but I think it's good to share the full breadth of the story. I mean, not too long. I swear. I won't be too long winded because it was difficult not just in the doing but the unweaving and rebuilding of my identity. And so it started with applying for a position that I did not receive that was gutting and required me to reconsider and it was an internal position. And I looked around and I there was nowhere else on campus that I could see myself which also scared the heck out of me because I was 6 months into a doc program. I was like, well, is this place even for me? And my husband and I were out for a run.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:19:51]: I all of a sudden just start crying uncontrollably. He's like, did you fall? And he knew I was kind of having a hard time. And he's like, we're okay. Like, what if you just did school? And I'm like, who you. I've been working since I was 12. Work is my identity. I grew up in a low income and middle class family in Wyoming. My grandparents are all ranchers.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:20:13]: Like, work is what we do. It was never even a consideration of not doing. I sat on it for a couple of months and it started to grow on to me. So, honestly, it even started with the idea and so that might resonate with some listeners of what it means to just do school full time and not be contributing to your family or needing to take out other resources, that that internal struggle is real and validated. But then what I didn't anticipate was leaving my job then and the excitement and the going away parties that then went away in 2 months and I completely was in a free fall. My mental health, you know, you can that I discovered panic attacks and anxiety? And I've always, I think, had anxiety, but it cracked open, again, just doing school. And I had busied myself so much. Again, queen of committees. Put me in everything. Do everything. Output. So I blogged every day for 50 days and just poured myself into Twitter now x, where I found a community where student affairs used to be very active

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:21:30]: Of colleagues, friends, and just continue to go there. That was, like, my water cooler. And by the time I graduated, I was already starting to get invited to do speaking because I was blogging my coursework and you could still do this. Set up a substack and share what you wrote about on Black board, like or it literally could be, this is a quote from my paper that you did because that's how I just started to share the work I was doing. I was still terrified that what I was doing wasn't real or worthy. So I picked up, like, 4 adjunct positions at once and doing some speaking on the side. But I always had this, I need a plan b. So I'm still looking at jobs.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:22:15]: I'm, like, doing the speaker circuit thing. And it wasn't until, honestly, a couple years before the pandemic that I finally said, Josie, you need to make a commitment. Is this a business? Are you in or you're out? Because mentally, it's also tormenting. And so then I did. I've I I mean, I literally took out, like, a license that, you know, like I'm incorporated now and, brought on people to help me. And I just think to acknowledge and not to scare people of, like, you make this transition, there might be mental health impacts, like, things that were kind of already residing that I would say have resources ready for you at the ready and to bet on yourself too. I didn't bet on myself early enough because honestly, I think people listening in higher ed will get this. We're a perfectionist.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:23:07]: We don't want to fail. And I was scared if I called it a business and it didn't make it, then I was gonna be a failure. And that held me back though for what could've and is coming to be.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:19]: You've said a couple of things that I I think are really important to touch back to. And the first is that I think in student affairs, especially, there's a lot of identity wrapped up in the profession, in a job title, in a job function. I think that's partly because the outside world doesn't grasp the profession. And a lot of times, our own families and partners don't grasp the profession, and so we kind of hang on to the identity maybe a little bit tighter than other professions may. And so letting go of that is not just transitioning a career. It's figuring out where that piece of you goes or what happens to it, after you transition. That's a big one.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:23:59]: Well, and some of that is not knowing what box to check. NASCLA only just recently added a consultant membership or, you know, or I wouldn't be able to go to certain things. I had to have a campus affiliation and there was a sense of it wasn't embarrassment but I was very fearful people were gonna see me as an outsider, that I was gonna be cold calling them and so, I also I've always been centered in community and relationships which, so I've been doing sales but in a heart centered way because I need to work. I need to make it. I'm going to make this work. Right? But I had to do a lot of money stuff on weaving some of that money mindset things in order to build a business, that wasn't that was going to be productive. In higher ed very much. There's an entrepreneurship element to your transition and higher ed very much.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:59]: There's an entrepreneurship element to your transition story. I have a friend who researches entrepreneurship. They're an assistant professor in the College of Business, and that's kind of their their area of research. And they have found through their research that the most successful entrepreneurs are the ones who tilt in a 100%, the ones who actually take away their safety net, which is the most terrifying thing that you can do. But it sounds like that's what you did.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:25:23]: Yeah. You should have sent me that article. Yeah. And I think just even not saying I'm my only identity is entrepreneur, but not resisting that. And I don't have an MBA. I swear I don't know what I'm doing half the time on business side, but I'm seeking out different types of mentors. And I'm also finding others, and you're one of them now, in a different type of way that we need our own resources as campus partners in community, in how we can transform the industry too because it needs to be done from the outside. And it's not outside in a negative way.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:25:59]: It's actually more it's gonna be more impact full in the end.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:03]: Let's talk about that transition to being a CEO, so your your own boss and your own employee, but also a person who's driving their own schedule, driving when you work and when you don't, setting your own limits, deciding when enough is enough for a day, a week or a month, that feels really overwhelming to me, just looking at the lack of limit and needing to self impose as a person who also drives with a lot of purpose. How did you figure that out?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:26:30]: Oh, trial and error and lots of therapy and hiring a coach. Mhmm. So I brought on a business coach and you'll just laugh at me what she caught on quickly that I was a workaholic that especially when the business wasn't doing well, to me, you just work more. It's almost like your punishment then. You have to work every single day. And one of her first homework assignments was, she's like, I want you to take every Sunday off. And I looked at her. We negotiated it to one Sunday off a month.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:27:00]: That's what I negotiated it down. I'm embarrassed. Like, I put up such a front that I couldn't even imagine what it would be to not work one day a week or what a month, let alone a whole weekend. And by the time we finished our work together, my husband and I also purchased an RV and I took off 6 weeks. So you can't sometimes we don't see how we are in our own ways. We need people and it doesn't mean you have to pay people to tell you that, but I needed that mirror because at the same time, I was completely this was toward the end of the book and, you know, we're in a pandemic. I was completely crumbling, like, the foundation was so weak and I just kept jumping on the trampoline, like, no, it's not. So I have known I've really I have to prioritize it.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:27:55]: I will edit this because it is a professional podcast. But I may be my own boss, but she can be a real bee sometimes. I have very high expectations of myself. So I need other people to help me make sure I'm staying grounded. And I've also realized that I don't like to work alone and while I'm sacrificing financially, in November, I brought on my very first full time employee which was both terrifying and exciting for someone else to be relying on you. But I'm also so strategically and to wanna grow. And but for some people listening, they might or you've already built your own person shop and that's that can be great too. We all we don't all need to turn into these big agencies or or whatever.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:28:51]: I think that's the other piece that I found. You get to define not only your time, but how you are going to structure your your business. It's so funny when you think about a dissertation is such a recipe card. Sure, you can mess it up, but, like, it is so structured.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:08]: Chapters 1 through 5, maybe 6.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:29:11]: Yeah. And then this is what you write, this is what you say, you've got this feedback. Being an entrepreneur is not a whole bunch of it. And I am a recovering control girly. And sometimes you have to let it go and sometimes you have to be like, what do I want? I could do anything today. Well, not always, but from now, I work at WeWork sometimes or I need to get out of the house more. So I also joined a gym that is right next to WeWork. Giving yourself permission to really pay attention how you work best and how

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:42]: you're gonna best make that impact. Can you talk a little bit about how your views on the profession changed from being a campus based professional to being a campus partner?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:29:51]: Oh, wow. How they have changed. Well, it is nice to see that there is more of a acknowledgment of how the work by partners, by consultants, whatever they're called, are necessary and we're not it's not just about the money or adversarial. That's been just good for my own mental health and where I fit into things. I see much more macro things happening. I mean, we were just talking, before we started recording about we're losing really great people. We that our students need those people. The the mental health weight of this work, it makes me want to do something bigger than my myself or what my business provides.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:30:35]: And so that's why a lot of my work is just trying to put good minds together, whether if that's on a panel, in a Slack channel because I can't do it all, but I just wanna connect all the people to help because it still blows my mind how many people like, they say student affairs is a small world, but it's not. Even people I'm like, wait. You don't know each other? Like, how in the world does this not happen? And that that honestly brings me more joy sometimes than, like, being asked to speak somewhere is that then I get to I mean, it's the same thing with our students, right? We get to go see what they do with the rest of their lives. I would also say it's only to a certain extent, but so many of the challenges you're facing, a million others are on their institutions to like I'm not saying normalize it, but for example, social media, I can anticipate what I'm gonna be finding in consulting or coaching and exec. We we can be so hard on ourselves. We're not far enough along. Our engagement isn't going well. Just hear it from me.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:31:29]: Like, it's all a bit of a struggle. And that could kind of be nice to hear. Like, oh, it's not just me. I feel a little and that's not just with social. It could be a variety of different topic. Oh my gosh. And honestly, what I am finding is and what I'm bummed so bummed about, even in grad school and maybe programs are doing better now. I feel like I was hid from what our admissions and enrollment people really were doing and are up against

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:31:56]: And I think we're having because especially we're seeing student affairs and enrollment pair up but I I don't know if it was the institutions I was at or where I got my grad program but, like, I feel like it was, like, we don't talk about that. That's not your place. You just focus here. And I think that's such a disservice because even when I talk to marketers or enrollment people, I'm like, y'all are y'all are doing the work of student success, right? And even they're not hearing that. Mhmm. So somewhere in our echo chambers, that is being perpetuated to continue and I think the institutions that are doing the best, sure, we've got department names and divisions are we need a collective effort. We obviously all need to do what our work or tasks are meant to do, but it's not doing a service to, like, keep people not understanding how they could make an impact on enrollment. I really appreciate you

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:50]: mentioning that because I think that aligns with a lot of my experiences as well. Even, even sitting in an ADP or a CSAO seat, you know, the enrollment side can have a level of mystique to it. And it's interesting having spent a career in higher education, and I don't think I could advise, a high school student the best way to craft their application for admissions at this point because it is, a, still a little mystical, but, b, because it's different everywhere. And that's that's interesting if you really break it down on how siloed our profession can be within itself sometimes. But when we can connect those things, the power in that is really extraordinary.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:33:34]: Right. Even within in within our campus walls, in different divisions, we we're having similar challenges of retaining a certain type of staff or again, I just I think we're missing out so many ways of going back to the beginning of humanizing the work that we do and workplace challenges in addition to students just want to learn. And no matter what the title of the department is, sometimes that bureaucracy gets in the way. And I once I love social media because it kind of doesn't care. Like, a student's gonna find what they wanna find wherever they're gonna find it no matter what the title is. And if they can't find it on your website because they probably aren't, they're gonna ask on Reddit, and it may or may not be But I would say I am excited. I am energized and I just wanna say one more thing that I haven't said that I especially say to a lot of people that come to me. They're like, I wanna start my own business.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:34:38]: I wanna be a consultant. From the beginning, I had a partner in this with me, And we have gone ebbs and flows of sometimes it's more me, sometimes it's more him in order to do this work. That is a privileged place to be in that I fully acknowledge both financially, emotionally, that I wish people could just do the thing they wanna do immediately. But there were times if I didn't have a partner, I would also have needed another job or 2 to make ends meet. And I think people need to hear it both in an ethical way, but also there are ways that you could start doing speaking consulting immediately. There's no reason that you need to do it fully as a full time thing. That would also be great for you to get experience and to see if that's something that you'd really wanna do because it's not easy either. There's some some gritty parts of it that may not be a good fit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:29]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:35]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be back in the NASPA world to let you know about some amazing things that are happening in the profession. 1st and foremost, there are a few brand new NASPA books that are in the NASPA bookstore. The first, Student Affairs Professional Preparation, A Scholar Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics by Jackie Clark, Jeanette Smith and Associates. This book offers unique insights into critical issues facing higher education and student affairs. It was written by a diverse team of practitioners and faculty. This comprehensive volume serves as both a primer on contemporary topics and a tool for practitioners and students. Some of the chapters in the book address HISA matters that have been central to professional preparation for decades.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:23]: Others concern aspects that are emerging and evolving in unprecedented ways. Each chapter is written by a team consisting of at least 1 practitioner and at least 1 faculty member. This intentional partnership allows for a rich conversation that addresses both professionals in practice and students and faculty in preparation programs. The content can be directly used in practice or to generate critical lively conversations in the classroom. The authors have also included excellent resources for further reading and classroom activity. The second book, Crucial Collaborations, A Practical Framework to Ensure Access, Equity, and Inclusion for students with disabilities. This was written by Neil Lipsitz, Michael Berger, and Eileen Connellberger. Ensuring access and sense of belonging for students with disabilities in higher unique organizational structure, culture, faculty, staff, and students.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:25]: This book presents a cross functional framework that administrators, faculty, access service providers, parents and guardians, and students themselves that can be used in the review and responsibilities of each stakeholder who contributes to positive post secondary experiences for students with disabilities. The groundbreaking framework has many applications, including facilitating student inclusion and socialization, empowering stakeholders through shared knowledge, and assessing the efficacy and effectiveness of institutional programs for students with disabilities. Throughout the book, the authors discuss their personal and professional experiences to animate and operationalize the framework. One other thing that I wanted to share with all of you today is a brand new book in the NASPA book store. It's a book in the NASPA book store called The Business of Student Affairs Fundamental Skills for Student Affairs Professionals written by Larry Mineta and Ellen Jay Consulting. This book is a primer on the fundamental business related aspects of student affairs that all practitioners need to know. Drawing on his 46 year career in higher education, Larry Mineta, the author, presents critical skill sets to better equip student affairs practitioner educators to analyze circumstances, alter environments, invest in structures and programs, and lead campus progress. Topics include financing and budgeting, organizational design, human resources, facilities management, technology, auxiliary operations, legal issues and risk management, crisis management, strategic planning and communications.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:58]: The key takeaways in each chapter provide further guidance to achieve success in the field. For anyone going into student affairs or new to student affairs, you may find that many of the topics in this book may not have been covered in your graduate preparation program or maybe something that you just need more insight into. And this book definitely provides you with that insight. I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA bookstore today and check it out for yourself. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:20]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:50]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. We know we just came out of annual conference, but there is still a lot more opportunities for engagement. So I appreciate you letting us know what those are. And, Josie, we have reached our lightning round. I've got 7 questions for you, 90 seconds. Ready?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:10]: Okay. Okay. I'm scared.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:12]: Number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:17]: Well, I am a conference keynote speaker. I have to pick Beyonce's new tunes. Any of the 3 that have come out recently, I think at that point, I wanted to be a swim coach.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:37]: I was a swimmer. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:43]: Ed Cabellan. He brought me under his wing early, early days meeting on Twitter, and he sponsored to help me get to my very first ACPA conference to present

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:54]: with him. Number 4, your essential student affairs read. The Chronicle. Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:03]: Why did Tiger King immediately come to mind? It was not the best. It was just the first thing I thought of.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:08]: Oh my gosh.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:09]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:13]: Well, it is mine, Josie and the podcast, because of editing and creating. But, my Spotify rap tells me Armchair Expert is, all their different shows are super fun.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:27]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:31]: Oh my gosh. I think I'm especially maybe it's from the Barbie, Taylor Swift, Beyonce movement. It's a summer for women and girls, and I am also just, like, on fire about that. So I just wanna give a shout to all the women and girlies listening and, I mean, all gender unconforming identities that we need space and community and and being lifted up. And so I'm doing a lot of different groups and meetups to do things like that, but we're taking over, Jocey.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:00]: I'm so grateful to you for this 2 part episode. Again, part 1 dropped on Josie's podcast, Josie and the podcast. This is part 2 of the conversation. So if you'd like to go back and listen to part 1, go ahead and find her show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you download your podcasts. But, Josie, if folks would like to engage you as a consultant or just have a chat with you, how can they reach you?

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:43:21]: Well, you can find me at josiealquist.com, blogging, podcasting, all of the things. I am on Instagram, LinkedIn threads, x is swirling as it does. And I actually do have a TikTok, but currently it's all reactions to my husband's content, which is epic rap battles of history. So if you want that type of entertainment, you can go there. And as

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:44]: you search for Josie, so that's Alquist with an a h l q right in there. Josie, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:43:53]: Thanks for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:57]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Cratney. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:31]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

 

Navigating Unprecedented Challenges

The COVID-19 pandemic introduced a myriad set of challenges, upending the traditional norms and necessitating an urgent pivot towards empathetic leadership. Higher education, a particularly affected sector, had to swiftly evolve, fostering an environment where staff felt supported amidst the ensuing chaos.

Embodying Transparency and Support

Amy Hecht from FSU and Matt Imboden of Wake Forest University underline the importance of transparent communication and authentic actions from leaders. Through initiatives like FSU’s Culture and People program, leadership at these institutions exemplified the care and long-term investment in their staff’s career trajectories. Similarly, David Chao from the University of Pittsburgh highlighted a newfound focus on self-care, crucial for maintaining a balanced support system for students.

Spaces for Grief and Adaptation

Andy Wiegert at Washington University and Rachael Amaro of Cal State Fullerton share the vital role that organized grief spaces and an open line for support can play in sustaining staff well-being in times of loss. Melinda Stoops from Boston College emphasizes how institutional efforts to secure staff job assurance during such periods is a testament to caring leadership.

Professional Development and Well-being

Investment in professional growth and well-being, as recounted by Jackie Yoon from Harvard, ensures that employees feel valued and are more likely to contribute positively. The approach by Shatera Davis’s leadership at Northeastern in Seattle during the pandemic harmonizes with this by preserving jobs and maintaining a connected community despite quarantine.

Leading by Example

The narrative of Leanna Fenneberg from Duquesne University describes leading staff reductions with care, prioritizing a loving environment even during departures. Moreover, Darlene Robinson of Seton Hall University speaks to the strategic support provided by listening leaders who aid employees during career transitions.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, essay voices. Welcome to our second of 3 bonus episodes from the annual conference. Chris and I were able to move about the conference and talk to a couple dozen of you about your thoughts on the various foci areas. Today's question will focus on the 2nd conference focus area, which was Care in Chaos.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: And the question we asked you was can you share an example of a time or a hope when a supervisor or organization provided effective care and support to employees during times of significant change or uncertainty in their careers. A lot of you had some really wonderful examples of how your organization

Acquanetta Pinkard [00:01:07]: I'm Acquanetta Pinkard. I am from Montgomery, Alabama. I work for Alabama State University and I am a trio professional for 23 years. I believe that my supervisor as well as my campus have been very conscious of caring for the employees, giving us what we have need of whether that's time off, whether that's just opportunities to take a minute break, areas on campus where we could take minute breaks, and also providing just that continuum of care where we feel the liberty to be able to talk. So I think that that's what I've experienced.

Taylor Cain [00:01:45]: I'm Taylor Cain. I work at the University of Georgia and serve as the director of engagement leadership and service there. Well, I mean, the one that comes most comes to mind first, most recently we had, unfortunately, 2 deaths on our campus. 1 of a former student and one of a current student. And while all of us were trying to spring into action to figure out how to care for students, in the midst of that, I was really impressed by the institution trying to find also ways to support those who were caring for those students. Our vice president for student affairs, who is newer to her role but not to our institution, made really intentional efforts to reach out to folks via email or text or when she saw them to take the time to show appreciation and care for the work that they were doing, recognizing the importance of it, but also encouraging folks to take care of themselves. And I think little acts like that go much further than some people may realize. And I think it meant the world to the staff who were doing the work. In times of crisis or difficult issues on campus, it's always really nice, I think, to have that recognition and affirmation of you're doing a great job and I'm right here beside you. But don't forget to take care of yourself too.

Adrienne White [00:03:01]: I'm doctor Adrienne White. I'm the director of student success coaching at George Mason University, and I use sheher pronouns. I think my supervisor during COVID was remarkable in terms of how she supported us during certain times. And personally, during COVID, my mother was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. And so on top of dealing with personal things, I'm now having to also grapple with how am I supporting my team at the same time. But then, also, how am I supporting myself during all of this and putting well-being at the forefront of our work. And I was extremely blessed to have a supervisor that allowed me the autonomy to create well-being opportunities for my team, but also well-being opportunities that worked for me as well because I was my mother's primary caretaker. And so, I adjusted my schedule.

Adrienne White [00:03:53]: I went on 4:10 hour workday schedule because I needed to go to all a lot of doctor's appointments and be there with her during her treatment, and that was a significant moment in my life, in my career. And having the support of my supervisor and knowing that my supervisor has my back, right, knowing that my supervisor supports the decisions I need to make to take care of myself and to my team, you just can't put a number on that. It's incredibly important and has completely transformed my thought process and my leadership as well.

Susan Hua [00:04:29]: Hi. My name is Susan Hua. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm the director of diversity, equity, inclusion at the Community College of Aurora, which is an MSI HSI just outside of Denver, Colorado. A hope that I have for supervisors or organizations to provide effective care and support to employees is to really just be intentional about how they are mentoring and having conversations with their employees during times of uncertainty during their careers. I think it's helpful to understand and really holistically look at your employees instead of just seeing them as one role or one fraction of your department, and to really understand that they have lives outside of the field as well, and to understand how to support their whole selves in the work journey that they have.

Aileen Hentz [00:05:09]: My name is Aileen Hentz. I'm at the University of Maryland as the program director of academic and student services. I think constant communication was very important during times, especially when we're looking at budget cuts, furloughs, when we're looking at possible changing in policy that could have an impact on our office or our jobs. Just not being left in the dark was incredibly important, I think. So that kinda constant communication, opening things up. I loved when my supervisor was like, you know, I'm not supposed to tell you all this, but I'm gonna tell you anyway because I feel like you need to know. And that was really helpful for me when we were facing some of those uncertainties.

Stephen Rice [00:05:49]: Stephen Rice, director of the Office of Community Expectations at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, California. I've been very fortunate to have a lot of supervisors who really take the time to get to know me and provide me with the resources and support. And so when tough times happen, they're able to really provide me with that information that I need. My current supervisor, Darren, always takes the time out to really talk to me about different cases and different situations. When things go awry, cause I work in student conduct, really provides that support that I need for those of things. And as an effect of that, I'm able to do that for the team that I supervise of 6 individuals to really help them in their growth through or different times and provide them support. And it goes with 1 on 1 conversations, getting to know who they are, what they're passionate about, understanding their strengths, tapping into those strengths, seeing things that they may not see about themselves, and really getting them to to do those different things and challenging support them in the way so they are very effective, in what they do. And as a result, they have better tools when they're looking for the next step that they're able to move forward with it.

Amy Adam [00:06:47]: Hi. This is Amy Adam, and I am from the University of Missouri in Columbia. I have been a student services support manager for 20 years serving graduate students. I've been so, so lucky in my 20 years with supervisors and organizations. I work in the School of Information Science and Learning Technologies. So we have mostly distant students, but all of the faculty and staff are located in the same building. Really, my first supervisor, doctor John Wedman, was one of a kind. He passed away about 9 years ago, but he really was that mentor to get me into student services and really just encouraged me to advocate for myself, advocate for my students, and to build the relationship with faculty, but to remember not to let them take advantage of me and the willingness that I have to do work. So, really, just making sure that I keep students first and foremost in my goal for my job has been the biggest thing. And really even through COVID, my current department chair has been amazing with flex time and just making sure that we take time for ourselves. You can't just sit at your desk all day. You've gotta get out, gotta get water, go take a break, go play with your dog. So I just feel very lucky that I've had that type of relationships with my supervisors.

Stephanie Cochrane [00:08:14]: Hi. I'm Stephanie Cochrane. I'm the director of student services at Northeastern University in Toronto. I'm here for NASPA for just the Sunday pre conference around graduate students. That's a great question. I think COVID created a huge shift in our entire world and our way of thinking about student support, and our dean at the Toronto campus has been really effectively caring for our our employees as well as our students, thinking about hiring the correct resources, asking for input from the people who are working there and dealing with the students on a daily basis to see what our students need and keeping that student centered mindset at all times.

Amy Hecht [00:08:52]: Hi. My name is Amy Hecht. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Florida State University. I've been there 7 years now. At Florida State, we've launched a new position and program called Culture and People, and it's really about helping people feel at home in Tallahassee where FSU is located, connecting to other people outside their division, celebrating people, and rewarding them, and also developing them, coaching them, and that's been very helpful for people to feel supported and valued, but also that somebody cares about their long term career trajectory.

Shatera Davis [00:09:32]: Hi. My name is Shaterra Davis. I use sheher pronouns. I'm the director of student affairs at Northeastern in Seattle. I think the most recent time and then the most impactful time was during the pandemic when I worked in housing before and everyone thought that they wouldn't have a job because our students were moving out. And so our leadership did a really great job of saying this is where we're at. I'm being transparent on what the leadership conversations were and then ultimately giving us opportunities to do other work besides being, like, resident directors in order to keep our jobs and keep our housing during that time. And then doing the most to make sure that we all felt community because while we were having to quarantine, we felt that we were all by ourselves. None of us have roommates, and so being intentionally using the spaces and the meetings we had to, like, build communities, check-in, and still just being transparent on where we're at and, like, how we're supporting students, but also how we're supporting ourselves during that time.

Andy Wiegert [00:10:25]: I am Andy Wiegert, Director of Graduate Student Affairs, Arts and Sciences, Washington University in Saint Louis. Gosh. Yeah. I mean, we've kind of seen a lot in our time. Obviously, having gone through COVID is the one that stands out the most, but we've also recently experienced things like, you know, a tragic death of a student. And that's really difficult because you have administrators who are both trying to support students, but at the same time are also experiencing their own grief and trauma. And so it really has been neat to see some of our leaders recognize that, acknowledge that, and create spaces not just for our students to grieve, but also for our staff, our faculty, and support folks.

Scott Peska [00:11:10]: Hi. Scott Peska, Waubonsee Community College, assistant provost of student services. I would say that this was a few years back, quite a few years back when I worked in res life, but I recall when 911 took place right there was some real challenge with direction during that time and really giving staff the space to not only help their students go through and kind of process, but to give us time to process individually was really important. And to really think about you're gonna deal with a lot of crisis management in higher education. And so are you prepared for this? You need to get yourself in a space to do that. And so being able to give us time to actually give us strategies, talk to people that were crisis managers and kinda looking at preparing that, that was helpful.

Dilna Cama [00:11:53]: Dilna Cama. I am a director within student life at the Ohio State University, and I am part of the off campus and commuter knowledge community. My most recent supervisor, he did our organization was down to 2 of us, and we were essentially scratching everything and building a start up. And his support and the way he really reminded me we can do anything, we can't do everything. And that's something I remind myself each and every day. And so really keep making sure that I'm focused on what is most important has really allowed me to remain positive. And definitely the way in which he provided support, I think, was very notable.

Sabina Kapoor [00:12:42]: My name is Sabina Kapoor, and I'm currently a a full time doctoral student with Capella University. I spent over 20 years in higher education as a staff within student affairs, student success, and academic affairs. So as I progressed in my career, I've focused more on staff so that they can better serve students. And I wanna go in deep with that, so that's why I'm pursuing the doctorate in IO Psychology because I wanna look at the relationship between the organization and the employee. What comes to mind is a few, the pandemic. During that time, a lot of universities were downsizing, and my university that I was at was no exception. And so it was really interesting because it was unprecedented in how many people were part of a workforce reduction. And so how the university supported people at that time, it was interesting.

Sabina Kapoor [00:13:31]: I think the university really didn't know how to. And then you had the people that stayed that weren't, let go. And so I felt like they had survivor's remorse, and so it's real interesting. And so I think now is something hopefully, that won't happen again to that extent, not just my previous university, but other universities and colleges as well. But if it did, I think institutions know now how to handle that better and have that human touch.

Carlie Weaver [00:14:01]: Hello. I am Carlie Weaver with Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm a programs coordinator for the student activities in Union office. I'm not really sure how to answer that because I do feel like I don't really find myself being uncertain in my career because my supervisor, Kristen Merchant, hurt you, and Kristen Lloyd are very, very supportive in helping me to find my footing in my own voice and my role.

Roxanne Wright Watson [00:14:31]: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wright Watson. I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, and I'm happy to be here. I think my direct supervisor, my dean, is supportive of what we do in the classroom, how we help our students. And in particular, a situation that I can recall is during COVID. During COVID, I think they were supportive to us in terms of having to just switch from face to face classes to online classes. The support was there. The support in getting things to instructors, supervisors did and how they helped us, the supervisors did and how they helped us as faculty. Yes.

Carla Ortega Santori [00:15:27]: My name is Carla Ortega Santori. I work at Rice University. I am the strategic initiatives manager at the Door Institute For New Leaders at Rice University, and my job is really about helping students elevate their leadership capacity and to also elevate the capacity of all campuses to do really great leader developments in education. I think everyone went through significant changes in 2020. Obviously, our director and leader was really great about embracing that level of uncertainty and creating a safe space for everyone to also attend to their needs, be they professional or personal. Another big, I think, time of uncertainty or significant change was when we changed directors, and I think both the outgoing and incoming directors were really great at defining our roles and clarifying expectations really clearly, so that was really helpful. Laying out a vision and also being okay with if we needed to change that vision or significantly alter it to accommodate our current needs was also really helpful.

Rachael Amaro [00:16:41]: I'm Rachael Amaro. I'm the admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership within the College of Education at Cal State Fullerton. I think a good example of that is the faculty who's the director of our EDD program. We had a really rough patch in our department, you know, between the faculty. The faculty were having issues with each other, which of course, the students pick up on, everybody picks up on. It makes the whole environment a little challenging, but my EDG director was always very level headed and very understanding and always open to saying, hey, if there's something going on, like, please let me know, like, don't, you know, don't keep things. It's important that I know what's happening so that we can all figure out what is going on and how everybody's feeling, at least in the office side, because the fact are gonna be themselves. They were having some issues with each other.

Rachael Amaro [00:17:29]: The staff, obviously, we were okay with each other, but obviously it all affects everything, so I really appreciated her always being so confident and always so caring and open, and always checking in and making sure we were doing okay when we had some rough times with our own leadership within our department, she was always the one person that we knew we could count on. And, you know, she's the one person that asks how you're doing, Jess, how your parents are doing. It's just those simple acts make a big difference.

Christine Wilson [00:17:59]: I'm Christine Wilson. I am in student affairs at UCLA. I have two roles. 1 is as the executive director for academic partnerships and the other is the program director for our director for our masters in student affairs program. I saw the leadership of our student affairs organization exhibit tremendous humility and vulnerability directly after the pandemic when there had been some things that were not seen that impacted fairly large number of staff, and they were unseen largely because of the pandemic. It was much harder to get a pulse on what was happening, and what was happening did impact a lot of people. And in order to heal that, our leadership really had to show tremendous humility and vulnerability. And the fact that they did that allowed the healing to begin to happen. And a year later, the organization was healthier, even maybe a little better for what they've learned.

Olivia Ruggieri [00:18:53]: Hi there. My name is Olivia Ruggieri. I'm the associate director of administration operations for Northeastern University Seattle campus. I grew up in Pennsylvania, went to college in Florida, and came out here in 2013, but I've been working for the university since since 2018. I would say that right now, there's a big shift towards, not centralization, but standardization of policies across our network of campuses. And so while for folks, at my level, like the ops leads on our campuses, we already do a lot of coordination between each other. We know each other well. But for the folks on our teams, like our operation specialists, our event specialists, they had not yet built their network with each other.

Olivia Ruggieri [00:19:34]: And so, coming out of our Vancouver campus, someone named Kayla organized a, mentoring, like, work group for all of those folks, which has been really amazing. So now, folks who are new to the org are mentored by folks who have been here a little bit longer. Those folks are mentored by people that whose roles they might be interested in the future, and I've found that this has helped some of that standardization that's coming across all of our campuses, and we're gonna be well equipped for the future.

Christle Foster [00:20:05]: Hi. My name is Christle Foster and I'm from Chesapeake College located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in Y Mills. I'm gonna point to the pandemic since it's so recent and I will say that our leadership at Chesapeake was very responsive and one of the things that they definitely emphasized was care. Self care as well as caring for our students and I've seen that change even when we returned to the college. With the CARES funds that we have, a lot of it was allocated to students who are going through mental health challenges as well as financial challenges, food insecurity, housing insecurity, and there was a lot of response in which those funds were put to, trying to retain those students and also help those students over those challenges.

Nathalie Waite Brown [00:20:46]: My name is Nathalie Waite Brown. I am the assistant dean of students and director for graduate student life at Stevens Institute of Technology located in Hoboken, New Jersey. From a personal perspective, the institution that I worked at when I joined a few years following, we had a new president that came to the institution, and it was during a time where there was a lot of turmoil. And I believe that the leadership that remained really was committed to retaining staff and faculty in a way that was intentional and purposeful, not just for our students, but also for the climate of the employees and welcoming and supporting the new president. And that's something that's been impactful in my career. That was 11 years ago, and it it's still something that resonates with me.

Dae'lyn Do [00:21:28]: My name's Dae'lyn Do. I use sheher pronouns, and I am the associate director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence Program at the University of Michigan, and I am coming into the position of the WISA CASE co chair. I mean, I have been lucky to have some really great supervisors in my career and definitely supervisors who focus on that work life balance and really making sure that they're taking care of their employees and not giving them time for themselves when they've had like a high busy time. Making sure that we're building in those days and those breaks for ourselves, whether it's in the day to day or whether it's in the busier seasons. I feel like I have been really lucky to rely on some great supervisors who just really prioritize that and know that we are workers outside of we're people outside of our jobs too.

Natalie DeRosa [00:22:18]: So my name is Natalie DeRosa and I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. So my supervisor has been an amazing support for me personally when some of my programming had the plug bolt on it this year, and being that space where I can just grieve that that happened, that meant a lot to me. And also, we're still looking for ways to bring back the programming. I work at a community college, so sustaining programming is always a challenge for us. So being able to talk to my supervisor about it and have her be just right there as we're experiencing it has lended a lot of support to me professionally.

Dan Volchek [00:22:58]: Dan Volchek, assistant dean of student success at Harvard Griffin Grad School of Arts and Sciences. My relationship with expect that and hope that in a supervisor. So as we're going through changes and uncertainty, both professionally in the career and at the institution, they were working as a team and they were talking. And sometimes that has happened and sometimes that hasn't, but that's a very important way to get through when issues come up.

Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:31]: Vaughn Calhoun, Seton Hall University, hehim. I think, interestingly, you know, coming out of the pandemic, we were so used to being at home for 2 years and then coming back to campus with the thought of we're gonna be there a 100% of the time when literally our lives have readjusted based on on the pandemic. So one thing I advocated for was a work from home policy. We didn't have one across the institution. It was based on each department. So putting together a proposal, which was then accepted by our vice president and saying that, you know, this is what we can do. So that, I think, was really powerful because our staff knew and got the message that our executive administrators care.

Darlene Robinson [00:24:14]: My name is Darlene Robinson. I'm the RISE general and director for Seton Hall University. I can speak to that in a sense that being that I'm just moving in to this career, I spent over 15 years in the financial aid department, and I just moved over to student services. And with this move, the supervisor that I currently have now has been very strategic in listening to me as a person, asking questions of how and what I need, and how he can be of service as well as influence. Whatever it is that I need to do my job in the

Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:24:59]: Hello. My name is Miguel Angel Hernandez. I am the associate vice president and dean of students at San Francisco State University. I have been very fortunate as a individual to have had amazing mentors, supervisors, sponsors throughout my career. Faculty members that have really taught me, guided me, coached me at different aspects of my career. And so when I think about a specific time, the easy place for me is thinking about what we as a community, as a planet, have navigated these last 4 plus years of COVID through that particular global crisis. I think about the patience, the openness, the modeling that I saw from supervisors, from organizational leaders related to bringing people in, leaning in to the moment, to what individuals needed, and really giving us the capacity to rethink how we approach work, life, care, concern for each other and for the students that we serve. And so one of the things that I work very hard to do is not to romanticize that global crisis, but I am trying to make sure that I don't forget the lessons that were learned from the flexibility, the love, and the care that we demonstrated to each other to be able to navigate that time and that space.  And so that would be something that I saw both from supervisors and from organizations. I hope that we continue to allow those experiences to be centered as we move forward in our work.

David Chao [00:26:29]: Hello. My name is David Chow. My pronouns are hehim. I serve as the director of IT for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, and I'm also the chair of the technology knowledge community. For sure during COVID, I think everyone became so much more attentive towards self care. And I'm not even just in higher education, I feel just like in the workplace in general, everyone just seemed to be working harder than their parents type mentality. And I think since then we've understood about the balance that, you know, we can't assist our students and serve them if we don't take care of ourselves as well. And some of the advice we give to them, we should probably take as well.

Melinda Stoops [00:27:01]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I serve as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. In terms of looking at times when there's been significant change or and uncertainty in everyone's life. And in higher education, there were just all of us going home for periods of times and uncertainty in what our roles were in specific moments when everyone's off campus. How are our roles different, and what can we do to contribute, and what are we needed to do to contribute? And I feel like that that was a time where there was a lot of uncertainty, and I think one thing I appreciated about that was my institution's stance of there's a lot of uncertainty, but we are really going to make a real point to care for our employees during this time. Now with that said, again, we were off campus, so caring can show up in different ways. But feeling like they were like, we are concerned about employees. We wanna make sure that you all are healthy, that you all know that your job is secure, and just that really that in and of itself went a long way. And it felt so fortunate because I know not everyone was in that same position, and I felt very privileged to be able to receive that support from my employer. I know that my colleagues on my campus were as well.

Derek Grubb [00:28:26]: Derek Grubb, Dean of Enrollment Management for Red Rocks Community College in Colorado. I've been fortunate to have a lot of supervisors and colleagues I think that I've learned from how to be effective, but one more recently was past president. Really taught me the value valuing people, celebrating even the small wins, and really how that promoted a environment of caring, great place to work mindset.

Matt Imboden [00:28:50]: My name is Matt Imboden. I use the he, him pronouns. I serve as the chief student services officer in the School of Business at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And, for the past few years, I've also been chairing the administrators and graduate and professional student services knowledge community for NASPA. So I'm sure there'll be some point at which my mind doesn't completely shift to the COVID experience when somebody asked this kind of a question, but I am not at that point yet. So my mind as you were speaking, Chris, went immediately to COVID as a time that I think revealed leadership or lack thereof depending on the experience. But that's exactly one of those stressors I just talked about in terms of uncertainty that you were talking about because my goodness. I remember feeling particularly impacted when people walk the walk and just didn't talk the talk of either high level administrators who personally sacrificed in the face of budget cuts to touch their own compensation or to really demonstrate not just sort of with words, but showed me that they're in this too and that makes you want to give as an individual and I think role model that for other people on your campus. And so that stands out for me of throughout all that COVID uncertainty when all of us were pulling out the depths of our leadership ability and administrative capabilities just to see people who, went beyond the talk and really walked the walk of leadership.

Evette Castillo Clark [00:30:01]: Evette Castillo Clark, vice president for student life and dean of students at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon. I'll think of myself in this as a supervisor. When you can't give or when I can't give the gift of money, I know that in times of need or support to my team, I'm gonna give the gift of time. So when I look at them, if my team or my staff are exhausted, I always talk to them about tag in and tag out. If you need the time or you need the break, me as a supervisor, I have to be very understanding of that. If you can't always offer additional monies for stipend, you gotta give the gift of time. And you have to understand that people need to regroup, and people need people need time to refuel and regain their energy. So in times like this, campus climate issues, post pandemic breaks are needed, and I think I also have to model that as well.

Madeline Frisk [00:30:56]: I started this job at Portland State in 2021, was working remotely up until the fall term. I started in the spring term at our institution, so navigating that shift from remote to in person and also having colleagues that I'd basically just met in person was definitely a difficult time for me, but my boss was very supportive and everyone was very welcoming. I found a community both with our union on campus as well as with my co workers and boss, and that was a great experience being initiated into a really wonderful community at Portland State.

Gene Zdziarski [00:31:32]: This is Gene Jarski. I'm vice president for student affairs at DePaul University.  I can think of a couple of situations. I will go back 25 years to Texas A&M University when I was a young staff member there, and we had an unfortunate tragedy of our traditional bonfire collapsing. And, 12 individuals were killed and 27 others were seriously injured. And the amount of attention and care that was taken by the institution beginning with the president who came in and basically said to all of us who were trying to respond and trying to work with the situation, I don't care how much it costs. I don't I want you to do the right thing. I want you to do whatever it takes to take care of people, and that was such a reassuring thing as you're trying to manage through such a challenging time, and so, for me, that was a significant moment.

Gene Zdziarski [00:32:36]: I also had one when I was at DePaul University, and we had a speaker come to campus that really, disrupted the campus community tremendously. I had actually recommended to the president at that time that being a private institution, we could make some decisions about whether or not this speaker really should come to campus. And he said at the moment, no. I think we need to have a process, a plan for that, but we're not in that place right now. I think we need to go ahead and do this. After it happened and there was a lot of backlash from the campus community, he stood by me the entire time and worked with me in meeting with all the different constituencies, stakeholders, and student groups to really listen, hear people out, and then help us begin to build a plan for how we would address that in the future, and that was pretty significant to me.

Lyza Liriano [00:33:22]: Hello. My name is Lyza Liriano. I currently serve as an area coordinator at DePaul University in housing and residence Life. Originally, I am from Brooklyn, New York. Yes. So prior to my role at DePaul, I worked at the University of South Florida, Tampa, and this was only about 2 years ago when there was a lot of political change happening in Florida, and impacted my identities as a queer woman of color. I didn't feel safe being in Florida, but my supervisors at the University of South Florida specifically provided me with hope knowing that I would be safe at my institution, and not only that, that I could still be there for my students. No matter what legislation was saying, we still wanted to build that community and make sure that our students really felt like their needs were being heard. And so I felt that as a professional, and we kind of instilled it to all of our student body as well. So although I did end up leaving, I left knowing that my students were in great hands.

Jackie Cetera [00:34:24]: Jackie Cetera. I use sheher pronouns, and I serve as the director of residential education at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. For this, examples of when this has worked out really well has been when administrators and leaders within the institution really important for leaders to pour into their people and provide guidance even when it might be really hard to do so. Providing space to talk through situations and scenarios and to keep people informed is really, really important.

Lisa Landreman [00:35:09]: My name is Lisa Landreman. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. I think that COVID is the best example. I feel really proud as an organization, as an institution, how much we held space for our employees, that we gave regular frequent communication as a team of people who were managing the crisis, particularly early on. We did really regular communication. We stayed abreast of what was happening in the world. We thought well about our community. We allowed a lot of flexibility with work even though we were in person for our students.

Lisa Landreman [00:35:46]: We gave options both for students and employees to do hybrid work or remote work as needed. I think we also gave a lot of flex to parents who were or people who had family members they were caring for, and so I think we were clear about our expectations for, you know, maybe some of our goals were on hold because we were tending to what was most immediately important and what was reasonable to ask people to accomplish at a time when we were all caring so much in our personal and professional lives. I think that was a way that I was really proud of how we managed that.

Jackie Yun [00:36:22]: Hi. I'm Jackie Yun. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the Harvard Griffin GSAS Student Center. Sure. I think I've been lucky at my institution that they have invested heavily in my professional development, and I have been able to go to them and say, I want to learn this thing. This is how I think this connects to what I do. And maybe in some cases, it doesn't always really connect, but they understand that providing me the support to keep learning and to try new things keeps me at the institution and keeps me doing good work for graduate students.

Leanna Fenneberg [00:36:55]: Hello. This is Leanna Fenneberg. I'm the incoming chief student affairs officer at Duquesne University. I think so many of our institutions are going through reductions in force. I've personally, been impacted by those, and I've had to lead those with staff. And those are some of the most critical times for the people who are departing and for the community members who remain. And so I think of those difficulties as we all have budget reductions and how we can provide a loving supportive environment for all of the employees, even those who are directly affected in helping them support in their next journey and making difficult decisions and communicating those, but doing that in a ethic of care and concern for the individual and providing that kind of supportive community during some of our most difficult times.

Jake Murphy [00:37:41]: Jake Murphy. I'm the director of prospective students services at OSU Institute of Technology, and I am over all recruitment and retention efforts at the university. Probably best example is my most recent position with a supervisor. I've just been in the role like about 2 years now. The university had been in a perpetual decline of enrollment for the last 10 years and it was morale was low. Everything was like absolutely terrible and my supervisor employed strategies to make sure that since we can't necessarily pay people the best in student affairs affairs sometimes, that she gave us the opportunity to use whatever time we needed to be felt supported and it really helped all of, like, bolster morale and just helped us avoid burnout which was great.

Larry Pakowski [00:38:29]: Larry Pakowski. I'm the vice president for student engagement, inclusion and success at Aims Community College in Greeley, Colorado. I think COVID is a good example for us all that we all shifted to a remote environment overnight, and then some schools came back sooner, some schools came back later. And I think it was really an exercise in making sure that we not only forgot our people, but also the mission of the college and ensuring that we were doing what we needed to do by students, but also our employees as well.

Jillaine Zenkelberger [00:38:56]: Hi. I'm doctor Jillaine Zenkelberger. I am the program coordinator over at Graduate Student Life at the University of Notre Dame. Yeah. So actually, a really good example is this year, we have a new dean of our grad school, Mike Hildreth at University of Notre Dame. And with any new head, new leadership, there's always, like, oh, what is this gonna mean for changes in our programs? But he's really taken the time to, like, sit down and listen to what our offices need and what our students need so that not only are we addressing students' concerns, but we're doing it in a way that's practical for us as employees. Because I think that sometimes we focus only on one side of initiatives and forget, like, well, somebody has to do it and has to have the capacity to do it. I think he's done a really good job and our team at the grad school has done a really good job of keeping those two things in mind.

Kristen Merchant [00:39:49]: Hi, everyone. I'm Kristen Merchant. I am from Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I am the associate director of the union and student Activities Office there and also the director of our lead programs. So my boss's name is also Kristen, but her name is Kristen Lloyd. She always just supports us with whatever we need, asks how we're doing. If she can sense that we're kind of feeling burnt out or tired or exhausted, she always takes the time to check-in with us us and give us some extra time off if we need it, and she just always helps make sure that we feel confident in our roles, and that just makes me feel very, very supported and confident in my roles.

Joe Lizza [00:40:25]: My name isDr. Joe Lizza. I'm the director of the Chamberlain Student Center and Campus Activities at Rowan University in New Jersey. When I was a few years within my first full time job, I knew I wanted some type of change, and I had very supportive supervisors that provided me those opportunities knowing that the growth at the time in my current role and maybe the growth at the institution wasn't necessarily there, but they gave me some tools both through mentoring, but also through professional development opportunities to kinda seek out that next step. And they were just very upfront. I feel like sometimes people kinda string you along. They were very upfront to say, we love your work. You're doing a great job, but maybe your next step is not here. And they really provided that support to look elsewhere, which ultimately then allowed me for advancement outside of that original institution.

Joshua Allred [00:41:19]: My name is Joshua Allred. I work at Louisiana State University in the College of Agriculture as their manager of student services. Sure. So we had a a pretty significant restructuring in our office a while back, like, about a year ago when our assistant dean left. And I work in an academic affairs unit so they took that time to really kind of restructure and move some pieces around. And so there was an uncertainty in terms of, are our jobs secure? Are our jobs moving around? Are we gonna have some significant changes in, like, what are what's under the purview of our our jobs. And again, I think having strong leadership and having them assure us and and talk through us the entire time as things were being discussed and actually listening to our input and getting feedback from us about our experiences being kind of the boots on the ground people working with students, I thought was really helpful and thoughtful. I think sometimes frustration, especially in uncertainty and during times of change, comes from folks at the top who don't necessarily have the most recent experience working with students in, like, a really direct way, making these really big sweeping decisions and not always taking into consideration the opinions and the feedback from folks who are doing just that.

Joshua Allred [00:42:25]: Wow. So one of the things I continue to do is try to be innovative and think what's next? What more can I do to support students and support student success? I don't wanna come in and do the same programs over and over again. I want to do my best to collaborate, whether it's with my partners in academic affairs or my partners in student affairs. But whenever uncertainty comes, then that says, how do I make sure that students are successful? Because in uncertainty, they wanna make sure that what you're doing is supporting student success. So that's what I do. At Texas A&M, specifically, we just had a major change in who our president is, and we changed from the College of Education to the School of Education and Human Development. There were a lot of the professionals within the College of Education and Human Development who weren't happy with that change and thought that our peers around the country would look at us and say, School of Education and Human Development, we're a college, we do more, we're a research one institution, why is that happening with us? And, again, during that time of change and that time of uncertainty, our focus in the Burns Center was how do we make sure that we are supporting our students and making sure our students are successful? How do we make sure those persistence and retention and graduation rates continue to stay high and how can we raise them?

Judy Traveis [00:43:58]: Hi, everyone. I'm Judy Traveis. I'm the associate dean for the Graduate Student Success Center at the University of Florida. I would say recently, I'm from the University of Florida and the Florida landscape has been impacted greatly with big issues in the DE and I space. And I think throughout it all, leadership had town hall meetings and general counsel available to help shape and create our programs so that they can live in the new world.

Katie Caponera [00:44:31]: I'm Katie Caponera, director of student life at Harvard Divinity School. This past academic year has been one of the most challenging that I've experienced in my 15 years in higher ed, and I know it's been challenging on many campuses. It's felt particularly difficult at Harvard. We're very much in the national spotlight, but I think that what's helped me get through those challenging pieces and times have been the supportive colleagues and my supervisor who's been amazing at checking in and keeping everybody up to date on what's going on, talking through what we may be facing, and being very clear about what expectations are and what strategies are to approach what may be coming to us given the different types of uncertainty and and challenge that are present.

Kathy Dilks [00:45:19]: My name is Kathy Dilks, and I am the director of graduate student and post doctoral affairs at the Icahn School of Medicine, the Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. Supervisors have always been very, very helpful. I think one of the best tips they've ever given me is perception is reality. So anytime that I come with questions or uncertainties or even in my professional outlook, I remember that one phrase over and over again, and I strive to put my best foot forward if I've always had the luxury of working with other people who are able to answer questions, able to guide me along the way.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:45:58]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, vice president for student success for the u Indiana University. It's not really a system. It's a multi campus university, but we can say Indiana University System if that's easier for folk to kinda place the role. It keeps me steady as a leader and as a member of an organization. It keeps me steady. And be vulnerable, as we talked about. It's a harder one to answer, I think, because particularly the past 4 years have just been so upside down for all of us. And so finding examples of care and support in such an uncertain time, relating back to question 1, is really hard.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:46:30]: But I will name a moment, and it was pre the disruption that we all know of COVID, but it was so fundamental and so just roiling with uncertainty is when I was at Northwestern as the associate vice president and chief of staff, and our vice president passed away. Beloved, long, long battle with cancer, and I will say her name, Patricia Theus Urban, an icon in our field. And it was one of those moments you knew eventually was coming, but it doesn't make it any easier. And the pain and the shock and just the sadness that just infiltrated the division and the campus, and there was a lot of burden that was put on our division to plan her memorial and a whole host of things. So, you know, like, good student affairs professionals, we just jump in and get it done. But during that time, we really tried to provide spaces, conversations, moments, touch points, remembrances of her, and not just at the memorial. We would take moments throughout the coming year to pause, to remember, to talk about, to laugh, to, you know, all the things that you wanna do to move through a really painful time. And, you know, I can look back on it, and that was 5 almost 5 years ago now, which is kind of mind blowing.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:47:40]: And I'm really proud and honored to have been part of a community that did that for each other. I'm not gonna stand here and say it was me. I'm not gonna stand here and say it was a small group. It really was that full community of student affairs that came together and did that. I think one of the sad things for me is that you don't often see that happen outside of student affairs in higher education, and I think we've got to do better

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:47:59]: as an

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:47:59]: industry, as a field, in industry, as a field in remembering that we have to show up for each other in these really important ways, large and small.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:10]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:03]: Catch you next time.

Welcome to NASPA's SA Voices From the Field Podcast where we delve into discussions that shape the future of higher education and student support. In today's post, we reflect on the poignant insights from Dr. Joisanne Rodgers, Director of Contemporary Student Services at George Mason University, who recently graced our podcast episode.

**Bridging Gaps: From First-Gen Student to Student Advocacy**

Dr. Rodgers' noteworthy journey from a security-seeking first-generation college student to a beacon for inclusive education mirrors the ambitions of many striving to find belonging within academia's halls. Her multifaceted career path exemplifies how diverse experiences can coalesce into a powerful drive for institutional change. Rodgers' role at George Mason University is not just about administration; it's about forging connections with and for students who have traditionally been on the periphery of college life support structures.

**Language Evolution: A Step Toward Inclusion**

The evolution from 'non-traditional' to 'post-traditional' student terminology that Dr. Rodgers discusses signifies an important shift in the higher education lexicon. By moving towards more inclusive language, institutions like George Mason University acknowledge the changing demographics of their student bodies and the unique challenges these students face, underscoring a commitment to support that encompasses not just academic, but life success.

**A Supportive Community: More Than Just Space**

Dr. Rodgers highlights that creating physical and conceptual spaces for students to flourish is paramount. George Mason University's community spaces, unique ambassador positions, and appreciation events underscore an approach that sees students not as secondary participants in their education but as central figures with rich, intricate narratives expanding beyond the classroom.

**Post-Traditional Pioneering: A University's Role**

The university isn't just leading the charge through in-house initiatives but is contributing to the broader dialogue on supporting post-traditional students, partnering with organizations such as NASPA. These partnerships foster a crucial exchange of best practices and innovative ideas, equipping institutions to better serve their diverse student populations.

**Looking Forward**

As Dr. Rodgers and many other advocates for contemporary students make clear, universities have an opportunity and responsibility to adapt, evolve, and provide equitable support. This not only benefits post-traditional students but enriches the entire educational community. Their successes aren't just personal triumphs; they are milestones in the progress towards a more inclusive, holistic approach to higher education. 

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back for our next episode of essay voices from the field, where once again we were able to sit down with a guest at the NASPA annual conference. I'm pleased to introduce you today to doctor Joisanne Rogers, sheher. Joisanne is a first generation college student, a post traditional student, a life long learner, and an educator passionate about post traditional and contemporary students. Doctor Rogers has worked in higher education for nearly 20 years in various roles, including admissions and recruitment, advising and success coaching, housing and residence life, marketing and outreach, retention initiatives, and student success initiatives.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:55]: She currently serves as director of contemporary student services at George Mason University in Virginia. Doctor Rogers leads a fantastic team of advocates and champions, serving Mason's contemporary student population. This team collaborates and partners throughout the Mason community to support contemporary student belonging, thriving and success. The team are proud recipients of the bronze level 2023, 2024, NASPA Excellence Award in commuter, off campus, military connected, non traditional, and related. Doctor Rogers also serves as an adjunct associate professor at University of Maryland Global Campus, where she earned outstanding adjunct faculty designation as an alumni volunteer at Algany College in Pennsylvania. Doctor Rogers earned a bachelor's in political science and dance studies from Alghany College, a master's in student affairs and higher education from Western Kentucky University, a specialist in leadership from American College of Education, and a doctorate in leadership with a focus on higher education from American College of Education. Her research interests include post traditional and contemporary students, mitigation and elimination of institutional barriers, and student success and retention. Welcome to essay voices, Joisanne.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:58]: Thank you. I'm glad to be here. And thank you so much for taking time out of your conference schedule to sit with us here in Seattle.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:04]: Absolutely. It's delightful rainy weather, So glad to hang out with you for a bit.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:09]: This is my hometown and, you know, people are always like, oh, it must rain a lot in Seattle. I'm like, oh, not really. And I really appreciate that Seattle's like showing out for you all with the rain today.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:20]: It's true.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: We also may get to be dodging a protest for a different organization today. So, you know, all sorts of eventful things happening in Seattle.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:28]: Well, coming from DC, I'm I'm a pro. 

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:30]: Oh, the other Washington. Yeah. The other Washington. The other Washington.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:33]: We got it covered.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:33]: I do when I say I'm from Washington, people go DC and I'm like, no. State. The other other farther away one. But we're really looking forward to learning from you today about your transition story into higher education from an arts background. That's something that you and I share in common. My bachelor's degree is in music performance. And weird fun fact, I used to teach top classes to pay for college. So Nice.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:55]: So I'm really looking forward to hearing that from you. We got to know you a little bit at the top of the show through your bio, but we always love to start with asking our guests how you got to your current seat.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:03]: Sure. So first of all, I'm a 1st generation college student, and so I went to undergrad not far from where I grew up. A little bit of safety in that. I knew the institution, knew the campus. And so not knowing much of anything else, that was where I was going. I had friends who went there. So I went to Allegheny College as an undergraduate, majored in political science, and minored in dance studies.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:29]: I taught community ballroom classes. 

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:32]: So I love this. I love this so much. Yeah.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:35]: And then I figured out while I was there. I went in, wanting to be a lawyer. That's what I was gonna do. And non spoiler spoiler alert, that's not what I'm doing as I'm on the NASPA podcast. Right? And so I found that those folks that were outside of the classroom were really the folks who were making big differences in what my access and what I could do and how I thought about things and and that kind of stuff and figured out that that was a job. Yeah. Who knew? And so I started looking for programs and positions both and got hired at Western Kentucky University. So I was a full time housing residence life staff member, part time graduate student there.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:04:18]: I was an assistant hall director and hall director through that, and then moved to the DC area and realized that many times there's a gap between the academic side of the house and the student affairs side of the house. Mhmm. And I wanted to collect secret decoder rings Oh. To help build those bridges. So I started looking in the DC area for positions that were maybe academic adviser positions or those kinds of things that leaned into the student affairs counseling things that I've been doing just kind of in a different way. And so I became an academic advisor that then kind of morphed into a success coach role at what was then University of Maryland University College is now University of Maryland Global Campus, and started working with post traditional students at a non traditional institution, which was very different than any experience at at the institutions I had been at, small liberal arts, regional with some global reach, into this global giant institution and learned a lot through my work there, but also connecting with colleagues and moved up and around there and decided I should probably go for that next degree because why not? Worked on my doctorate, did my research in institutional barriers for non, post traditional students, and all of that kind of came together for the position that I'm in now at George Mason University. So in 2019, George Mason University created the contemporary student services unit, which is a really innovative, first of its kind way to serve all of these different post traditional populations and the intersectionalities of all of those in a one stop shop kind of way, really. And so, like I said, it's a it's a first of its kind, and as of last Google, the only of its kind.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:06:05]: So when I saw the job description, it was one of those things where I took a moment and thought, okay. Either someone is totally stalking me online and created this specifically for me, or I may have just found the job I've always been looking for. Either way, like, I sent it to my friends. I'm like, I'm not misreading this. Right? Like They wrote this for me.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:06:25]: They wrote this for me. I didn't completely, like, lose total reading comprehension. Right? So, I had that moment of this is too good to be true. Right? And it wasn't, and that is fabulous. And so I applied and hired on and now work with this incredible team of folks who are dedicated to post traditional students, contemporary students off campus transfer, adult learners, student parents, veteran military connected folks, foster care alumni, system impacted folks. So it's a really great place and a really great space to be innovative and stay ahead and to use all of that background. I like to tell folks because we had a conversation about having that arts beginning that I use my dance theory and knowledge just as frequently student development. It just really depends because they both are part of the everyday process of the work that I do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:26]: I'd like to dig into the language that you're using a little bit because I think that is an evolution and transition of how we've talked about students over 25 and students with children and etcetera, etcetera. So you're now using the term post traditional students and non traditional student is the terming that had been used for years. So tell us, about the inclusion of that new term and how it's reflective of current practice and why it's different.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:07:51]: Yeah. So nontraditional, anything non. Right? You're not the usual. That makes you feel great. Right? Like, no. Am I really supposed to be here? But I don't yeah. So there's some othering about that. And so post traditional is more inclusive, still descriptive, and is coming up in the research.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:08:12]: More is the the term used. And that definition of that is, yes, 25 and older, but also anyone who has adult, and I'm putting air quotes around that that you can't see, adult responsibilities. So that includes those student parents, married, widowed, divorced, military and veteran connected, although, admittedly, there's a whole another set of criteria and things going on for those folks when we talk about JSTs and all these other things. But so it's more inclusive of that in a kind of a broader umbrella, and the term, the language to it is better, in my humble opinion, for that population. But then elevating that even more, talking about contemporary students at Mason, and our definition of that is, yes, our post traditional, but also our transfer students are part of that. Our off campus students are part of that as well. So those folks who, again, don't fit that traditional mold, who come in with more experience than the traditional student might. And it's really about honoring and seeing the folks, the students that are sitting in front of us and not the picture that we have in our head of 18 straight out of high school straight in has no other responsibilities living on campus.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:23]: I really appreciate that new framing of contemporary student. I'm also wondering how you connect that term to the students that you're serving because it might be new for them as well.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:09:32]: It's absolutely new for them. It's also new for our faculty and staff as well. Mhmm. And so we've spent some time like I said, the contemporary student services or CSS was established before lockdown. And then lockdown happened, and there was a lot of turnover and a lot of changes, of course, as everybody's experienced. So in this post lockdown era, 3 of my 4 staff members, myself included, were new into CSS. And so that really gave us a chance to kind of reestablish ourselves and reach out and connect with the faculty and staff as well as the students across the institution to reintroduce, reconnect, and reestablish contemporary, what that is, what that looks like, and how the great thing is also that all of my staff members hold some contemporary identity. I was an adult learner.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:10:26]: 1 of my coordinators is a transfer student. Another one is student parent. So we all hold those identities. So when we say peer, we mean it though we may not be in classes right now, it honestly wasn't that long ago that we were in that very same spot. And so having those conversations and having that lived experience really makes the biggest difference when we're connecting with students, but also when we're representing our students and advocating for our students. So, I'd like to say our work is about ACEs, a c e s. We advocate, celebrate, educate, and serve.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:58]: Okay. And we have to make sure that we're separating that ACES from adverse childhood experiences. 

Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:04]: Yes, for sure.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:05]: That's really helpful to kind of wrap our minds around this different conceptualization. You also said that George Mason is on the forefront of this new transition of how we're thinking about serving these very unique but growing populations at our university. Mhmm. How are you working with others in the field to kind of stabilize some of this and normalize it?

Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:25]: Yeah. So we're doing a lot internally and then regionally and then nationally. Right? So we've partnered for some of our subpopulations. We've partnered with folks like Generation Hope and participated in a Family U cohort. We, in this last year, earned the Family U seal, which is really exciting. Congratulations. Thank you. We're super excited about that to kind of amplify and celebrate our work with student parents and caregiver caregivers.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:54]: And but we're also working with our 1st generation center because the when you add 1st gen over over contemporary populations, that Venn diagram doesn't really get all that much bigger. It still stays real tight.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:05]: Mhmm.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:12:06]: So we partner with our friends in 1st gen center, which are part of the 1st gen efforts through NASPA. And so having NASPA support in that is beautiful and really helpful. And we also are working with everyone from, for example, our Marcom, our marketing communications folks at the institution and in our university life space to make sure that there's visual representation of all of our students too. And so we wanna make sure that we're seeing that our students are seeing themselves in all of the collateral that happens in the marketing that happens across the institution and across the region because there are buses driving all over DC with Mason on them, and we want them to see themselves in that in that place and space too. And now we're looking at I'm here at NASPA. We're, taking that in. We're also Generation Hope is hosting their very first HOPE conference this year in New Orleans. So I'm going straight from NASPA to that conference Mhmm.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:03]: To present, but also to take in what other folks are doing. And we're part of an Aspen network for Ascend. So we're really trying to connect in to work smarter, not harder, as I mentioned. So for us, we have, as I mentioned before, 4 full time professional staff members. We have a graduate student and student staff as well as an office manager. And sometimes I'm talking to folks and they say, oh my gosh. You only have 4 staff members to do that. And I talk to other folks, and I'm like, oh, my gosh.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:32]: You have 4 staff members. I'd love to have that. So we're in a great spot, kind of. And so looking at that too and making sure that as we're looking at emerging populations and looking at our work, that we're staying in a place where we can really help and advocate across the institution that we are not the only ones doing this work.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:55]: I think that's the important part of it too is as we're gathering ideas from NASPA sessions, as we're gathering ideas from Hope Conference sessions, some of my staff went to FYE this year. And gathering that information, it's about how do we partner, what are great ways that we can advocate, consult, do these things so that, ideally, all of our faculty and staff across Mason see this contemporary student work as their work too.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:14:25]: And a lot of times, it's just having the conversation about the language or having a little bit of conversation about calling them in to that work and making just little tweaks and changes because most of the time they're doing it. They just don't know that they're doing it. Or we're saying, that's really great. What if you could? And kind of leveling it up.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:45]: There's a book for 1st gen student success that NASPA, I believe, is a co publisher on, or maybe the publisher on. I I don't know exactly, but there's a list in it about, like, the 15 or 25 things that you can do to support first gen students. And the messaging I always come back to with that is if it's good for 1st gen students, it's good for all students because it's really about teaching people how to navigate the system of higher education, creating new to the system don't have, the social capital to understand, and and I really hear the echoes of serving those first gen students with your contemporary students. And it just it's so great to see that you're creating synergy with your 1st gen success center as well.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:15:28]: Absolutely. And you're 12,000 percent correct in that, like, that hidden curriculum, the paper ceilings that a lot of our adult learners and and folks are hitting, and that's what's bringing them back into our into higher ed. But also understanding this strange lexicon that they've either never encountered or it's been a really long time, or maybe they encountered it with their children when they were sending their kids to college, but they've never had to apply that to themselves. And so it works a little differently. And so, yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, those overlaps are spot on.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:01]: I wanna talk a little bit about that dance theory component because with your origins being in the arts and dance theory, a lot of people that have never studied the arts in a formal context probably are saying I didn't know that there was theory to apply to to arts in that way. And we have those theories in music education and dance education. It's about how we teach learning. It's about how we absorb and create and a number of other things. So I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about 1 or 2 of the dance theories that you rely on and how you're transitioning those from context of the ballroom to context of contemporary

Joisanne Rodgers [00:16:34]: students. Sure. So I have this kind of, like, running list of yes. There's, like, the formal theories and learning and and things like that, but I also kind of have this running list of things that always came from the director of the dance program, my undergrad, who doctor Jan Hyatt, love her, had these phrases that she always used that really stuck. And so a couple of those I think I have a list of, like, 10 or 15 in my notebook that have come with me all of these years later. And so the one that I use most frequently is you have to put the support in place before you need it. So whether you're executing a dance move, whether you're like, you don't just start playing for music, like, you just don't start playing. You ready yourself, instrument up, fingering, all of those things.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:17:20]: Right? And so even when you're taking a step forward, your body is you do it unconsciously, more likely than not, but your body is putting these supports in place so that when you step forward, you don't fall flat on your face. Mhmm. So it's the same thing. We're talking about emerging populations. There were changes in Pell Grant rules and regs that open possibilities for previously incarcerated folks. That means that's that's opening up this emerging population. We've been looking at that population for the last year and a half or so, doing some research, doing some interviews, and putting together toolkits so that we can put the support in place before we need it. Mhmm.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:17:57]: So, yes, some of those students already exist in our population, but we know that the possibility of more is coming. So we're putting that support in place before we need it. Just like if we were stepping forward, we don't wanna fall on our faces. Not that it's gonna work perfectly. Right? Practice and test and learns, that's how we come at it, but applying that. The other thing that I will say from her, mainly because this links directly into the podcast, is life is in the transitions. And so the importance of a move to the space in between the two moves is just as important as hitting your point or hitting the move or those kinds of things. And so that transition space and time is when things happen.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:18:37]: Like, that's where the good stuff happens. And so that is always part of what I remind myself of as things are happening, and I translate that into the work and kind of the business y thing of, like, testing test and learns. Right? It's always a process and it's an iterative process. Speaking of more theory, formal theory, is one of my favorite quotes from Margaret Dobler is, where the sum total are experiences Mhmm. And that's the only way we can show up, and that's the only way that we can react, which to me says meet the students where they are. Like, those things are very, if not exactly the same, very, very similar, which is a tenet of student affairs. Right? How many times do you hear folks say meet the students where they are?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:19]: Mhmm. That tenet has been one of the major constants through NASPA's existence, I think. You know, the organization itself is, I think, a 100 ish years old, and the the core of NASPA's philosophies have been fairly constant over time. I had the pleasure of interviewing some folks, it was maybe 3 years ago at this point, who were the administrators at Kent State University during the Kent State situation, situation. And they read me the NASPA manual from that year, and it was all still relevant. So it's really interesting to see how the way that we approach the work has changed a lot over time and we've become more justice focused, we've become more inclusive, we've become broader in who we serve, but we are still keeping that core of we're trying to help college students and young adults kind of realize their full selves in that out of classroom space, continue to show up as our best.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:20:08]: Yeah. Keeping that good stuff as the core. Absolutely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:11]: I'm wondering if you could tell us how folks might be able to read more about these new evolutions in serving contemporary students. Because we're not seeing that research necessarily show up as boldly in some of the major journals, but there's so much work that is, I think, the future of what's happening in American higher education, specifically.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:20:28]: Yeah. I think when we're looking at research, we get really specific. So for me, when I was doing, for example, my dissertation research and doing my lit review, it was a lot of looking at the specific subpopulations. Student parent, parenting student, all the variations of that. And so looking at that broader space, you know, I think about all of the advice that I got as I was constructing my research questions and things like that. And without fail, the first I would like to say 2 to 3, but it was probably more like 6 to 8 times. It was like, no. You gotta get narrower.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:21:12]: It's like you're you're gonna you're never gonna get this done if you don't get specific. And so I think that's what's hard is that post traditional is so big and broad, contemporary is so big and broad, and so we talk a lot and there's a lot of research about those subpopulations, but looking at that in the broader sense is a little harder.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:31]: You just said what every doctoral student has heard, too much pain. Right? Like, please please narrow your focus. I'm working with a person right now who is trying to narrow their focus from studying a population that is millions of people and going, oh, I just wanna study the population. Okay. But what about that population? And it's just so important for doctoral students to remember this is the first time you'll do independent research, not the last time. Yes. That's a hard lesson to learn, I think.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:22:00]: Yeah. It absolutely I did a lit review on contemporary students, what would I be doing, and how would I look at these subpopulations, and how would I bring this together? And then thinking about those big, over arching Mhmm. Needs that are identified in that in that literature. So coordination of service being one of those, access and not necessarily access to education, which might be where your brain goes immediately when I say access, but it's really access to information. Mhmm. It's that social capital piece. Exactly. And so having those and having a not just a group of peers, but a group of peers that reflect their identities Mhmm.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:22:46]: And whatever is most salient in the moment. So we know that for adult learners in particular, and this is true across all contemporary populations, but if they have a peer group that is just traditional students, it's not great. It can be detrimental. Mhmm. So helping them find their community and find their village, I've been at Mason I don't know. It feels like maybe 12 minutes. Really, it was probably a couple months. And one of our student parents who is working with us with Generation Hope was our student parent fellow. Valeria said at a convening, said everybody says it takes a village.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:23:26]: But not everybody has one. Mhmm. And that just I was like, yeah. Exactly. That, like, just hit me, and it was this beautiful encapsulation

Joisanne Rodgers [00:23:38]: Of everything that we were talking about, of students coming in and not having what they need, but that we could help and we could connect them, and we could be a village. We could be part of that support network and system. And not being a student parent, but being an auntie of, like, in with my best friend who was a student parent. She was getting her MBA, and my goddaughter was really, really tiny. And I was doing my doctorate, and so we were trading off for doing homework and hanging out with the kiddo and all of those things. And so I get that village. I'm like, I am a villager. We can be villagers.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:24:15]: Let's do it. But that's not just true for our student parents and caregivers. It's true for many of our students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:22]: You just gave one great example of what that can look like in practice. I'm wondering if you have any other practice elements that you think is important for our listenerships. Yeah.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:24:29]: I think the big things for us that we've gotten really big positive feedback on are several things. 2 that I'll pull out is 1, we have community spaces that we plan out early so that we can let our students get those on their calendars and make notes so that they can make the time. We'll also do multimodal, so sometimes they'll be in person, sometimes they'll be online, so they can connect with each other. And it's really it's truly just a space of, like, we're providing the space, but our students our student workers, we've created, student ambassador positions that work differently than your traditional student worker position where you're asking for 15 or 20 hours a week. Those aren't working for all of our contemporary students, particularly for our adult learners, our student parents, and military veteran connected folks. Many of them are already living in time poverty, so asking for 15 to 20 hours a week, not gonna happen. Mhmm. So we created these ambassador positions that are right now, I think we have them set to, like, 50, 55 hours over the entirety of the semester.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:25:37]: Okay. And we have a stipend that's attached to that because their lived experience is important, and if we're doing things for them, we wanna do that with them. And so those students are supporting those spaces and coming up with ideas of activities or topics and connections. So that's one thing that has been really great, and it's really helped our students build their own villages and build their their success network across the Mason community too because we also invite our colleagues into that space and into our lounge that we have on campus. I think the other thing is that, like every other population, we have us the contemporary student appreciation week. But we do that in April, and at the end of the week, we have a graduation celebration for our contemporary students. So we have contemporary student courts that they can come and pick up and wear at commencement. But at the graduation celebration, if they haven't already grabbed those, we have those available for them.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:26:35]: But we encourage them to bring their village. We don't limit the number of folks that they can bring. We want them to bring their kids. We have kids' activities at the at the event. We want them to bring their parents. We want them to bring whoever is supporting them and has been a champion for them, including Mason faculty and staff. So So when they RSVP for that event, we ask them, who's been a champion for you? Who really made a difference? Is there a professor, a staff member, a community member that really just lifted you up or amplified or advocated for you or just was there and supportive and would listen? And when they identify the folks, we send them an invite. You know, like, come celebrate with us.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:27:16]: And so we have this really great mix of students and their families and faculty and staff, and our VP comes and talks, and our AVP, and it's just this really beautiful event. We give them a whole bunch of, like, different areas. They can take pictures, and it's just a really beautiful event that kind of setting yourself up for success when you do a graduation celebration. That part I won't lie about. I know. Like, we're already starting at a 7 out of 10. But those connections are also really great in that space of having gratitude at the end of this journey that was not easy. Yeah.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:27:50]: There isn't anybody in that room being like, this was a breeze. Glad to see I'm out. No. Everybody in that room is, this was a hard one situation. Mhmm. And I had to make some hard decisions. I had to make some really difficult priority management decisions, And I just have some really interesting conversations with my partner, with my kids about, it's homework time. You do your homework.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:28:15]: I'm doing my homework. This is what we've gotta do. But at the end, it wasn't easy, but it wasn't worth it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:21]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:27]: Thanks so much, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a number of professional development opportunities that are coming up in the future that some of you may have an interest in. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is coming up December 10th through December 13th, and the call for programs ends on May 9, 2024. The Women's Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession. Participants include women with from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation, and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. This is a joint venture between NASPA and ACUI and a great opportunity for anyone looking to hone their leadership skills for working in a rapidly changing environment while also developing a better understanding of the campus as a workplace and culture and being able to connect with others to share experiences about how campuses are adapting and adjusting to the new reality that surrounds us. Early registration goes through October 21st, but the big deadline right now, as I mentioned at the beginning, is the call for programs, which does end on May 9, 2024. Some of the leadership cycle topics that are encouraged include topics surrounding supervision and performance management, strategic planning, financial well-being, upskillreskill, the bridge to the future, delegating and giving away, picking up new skills and putting things down.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:00]: I highly encourage you to consider putting in a program proposal and if not, consider attending this amazing professional development opportunity. You can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 NASPA M. Ben Hogan Small Colleges and Universities Institute is coming up June 23rd through 26th in Portland, Oregon. This institute is hosted on a biannual basis by NASPA Small College and Universities Division. The Institute is a 4 day residential program, during which vice presidents for student affairs and the equivalent and other senior level leaders engage in discussion and reflection about critical issues in student affairs and examine effective and innovative programs. There's still time to register under the early registration deadline, which is April 30, 2024. This Institute offers amazing opportunities for individuals working at small colleges and universities to be able to build lasting friendships and connections that will help them to be able to lead their own units at their own institutions in new ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:04]: If you've never attended this professional development in the past, I highly encourage you to attend this year. You definitely don't want to miss this opportunity to be able to connect, be rejuvenated and to prepare yourself to lead your organization to the next level. The 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11th in Philadelphia. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA, College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on your campus. The Leadership Institute creates a space for student affairs administrators, scholars, and practitioners to discuss and advance current leadership topics, such as modern leadership theories and models, including new research, applications and critical perspectives, innovative and inclusive curriculum, pedagogy, and strategies for leadership studies courses, assessment and evaluation of leadership programs, student development and learning outcomes, future directions in leadership education and development based on widely used studies and standards such as the multi institutional study of leadership, CAS, and ILA guiding questions, unique co curricular program models and high impact practices, including those with cohort and multi year engagement, distance and online learning, service learning, mentoring, and global experiences. Strategy and management of leadership program operations, including staff training, funding, and partnerships, as well as interdissectional and interdisciplinary approaches to leadership education. If you are someone that is leading leadership training and leadership development of students on your own campus or wish to be a part of that in the future, this professional development is a must go to.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:06]: Registration is now open. Pre early registration ends on June teenth with early registration ending on September 9th. Find out more on the NASPA website. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:14]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:42]: Chris, thank you so much for another great addition of NASPA World. We really appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going around in and around NASPA. And, Joisanne, we have reached our lightning round. Oh. I've got 7 questions for you. 90 seconds. Oh my. Alright.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:56]: I'm ready. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would

Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:00]: your entrance music be? Ain't No Man, The Avett Brothers.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:03]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:06]: I wanted to be a teacher because student affairs professional, not on the kindergarten chart. 

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:12]: True story. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:17]: I had a list. I talked about Jan, which is important. I think in the place and space that I'm in right now, it's my current supervisor, Sally Laurenson, and she has been amazing. Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Oh my gosh. Everything. Consume everything you can and run it through the lens of you and your life and your strengths and your institution. Number 5.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:45]: The best TV show you binged during the pandemic. I feel like I should say The Chair, because it just is absolutely directly related, but really the guilty pleasure version of that is Love is Blind.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:57]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:36:00]: Oh, that one's easy. Malcolm Gladwell revisionist history.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:04]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Joisanne Rodgers [00:36:08]: Oh, my gosh. Everybody. I stand on the shoulders of giants is really what that is. So I have this really amazing family that despite not having a lens necessarily for what I do is still a 1000% in. And when I say things like, I'm sorry. I can't come home for Thanksgiving if you want me home at Christmas. They were not thrilled about it, but they made it work and were lovely the whole time, and I know that was difficult. And so I love them, but, also, I've had the privilege of working with some really great folks and having people like Ted Smith, who was my first RD, who told me this could be a job, and support from folks at Allegheny, as well as then moving into my first professional position at Western Kentucky University and having this group of folks who were in it and wanted everyone to succeed in just this really great village of folks that supported me in that and helped me learn how to be a professional in that place and space.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:37:10]: And my first supervisor, Nick Wired, and Brian Powell, and Ben Ellis just absolutely giving me space and grace to fail fast and forward, and supporting me in that, and having a leadership team, particularly in in HRL, but also in my internships and things like that. So my Western Kentucky family, my Hilltopper family being great support in that as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:38]: Joisanne, I know I learned a lot from you today, and I'm sure there are others who have. If they'd like to reach out to you, how can they find you?

Joisanne Rodgers [00:37:44]: Absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn. Look at the ad for my name. It's spelled a little differently than you might think, but I'm pretty easy to find. So connect with me on LinkedIn, send me a note, add a note to that that you heard me here and ask some questions. I'm always happy to answer those or jump on a Zoom with someone and chat about what's going on.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:03]: Thank you so much, Joisanne, for sharing your voice with us today.

Joisanne Rodgers [00:38:06]: Absolutely. Thank you for having

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:10]: me. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:44]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Embracing the Unknown

The field of student affairs is constantly evolving, and professionals in this domain must be equipped with strategies to navigate uncertainty effectively. Success in this arena comes from a blend of versatility, patience, and transparency.

Versatility and Adaptation

Aquaneta Pinkert from Alabama State University highlights the importance of being well-versed in various areas, allowing for a smooth pivot when needed. Embracing a versatile approach prevents stagnation and ensures relevance in meeting student needs. This pivot-and-adapt strategy is crucial in staying dynamic within the field.

Patience and Trust

Taylor Cain of the University of Georgia emphasizes practicing patience amidst uncertainty. By trusting the process and focusing on controllable elements, student affairs professionals can maintain composure and lead with confidence, even when future outcomes are unclear.

Transparency in Leadership

Dr. Adrienne White from George Mason University shares her experience during COVID, when uncertainty reached a peak. By committing to monthly one-on-ones with her team and maintaining transparency, she fostered a supportive environment that not only alleviated concerns but also reinforced trust and collective problem-solving.

Moving Forward with Resilience

As student affairs professionals, embracing uncertainty isn't just about survival—it's about thriving and finding opportunities for growth. The strategies shared by these professionals are only a few of about 50 that provided a glimpse into the diversity of approaches used across the field to overcome challenges and foster an environment that champions both student and professional development.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay Voices from the Field host. Welcome to this bonus episode of student affairs voices from the field. As we've returned home from the annual conference, Chris and I are thrilled to share with you your voices. We were able to connect with several dozen of you throughout the conference experience to get your thoughts on the 3 conference foci areas and learn from your experiences. Across the next 3 weeks, we're going to be dropping bonus episodes on Tuesdays to share with you your thoughts on these three areas. The first area was navigating the opportunities of uncertainty.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: And the question we asked you was, what strategies have you employed to embrace uncertainty during your career, and how have they positively impacted your professional journey? Please enjoy. And if you were featured, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us.

Acquanetta Pinkard [00:01:08]: I'm Acquanetta Pinkard. I am from Montgomery, Alabama. I work for Alabama State University, and I am a trio professional for 23 years. Wow. That's a loaded quest 1 is pivoting. Pivoting, making sure that I am, well versed in a lot of different areas. So I am equipped to pivot and not get stuck in any particular area. So making sure that I'm just able to move with the times is so and that's been very impactful and not allowing me to get in a position where I'm I'm stuck doing the same thing over and over again, so that I can be impactful to my students still and revel it.

Taylor Cain [00:01:45]: I'm Taylor Cain. I work at the University of Georgia and serve as the director of engagement, leadership, and service there. I think with uncertainty, I try to exude patience, which for those who know me would probably be surprised by that. I wish I was more patient. But with uncertainty, I try to stay calm, rely on what I know to be true, and then try to be patient and trust the process, as cliche as that is, to see how things work out. Certainly, try and figure out how I can control things within my sphere of influence. But understanding I'm a part of a larger organization and to move something like that forward or trying to figure out what's gonna come next, no one can predict the future. So do the best with what you have, but just try and stay patient.

Adrienne White [00:02:25]: I'm Dr. Adrienne White. I'm the director of student success coaching at George Mason University, and I use sheher pronouns. I actually think COVID was the most uncertain I think we've all ever been about our careers and the future and where we were all going with our lives. And something that I use with my team, that's when I started doing monthly 1 on 1 with every single person on my team. Because it gave them an opportunity to talk to me 1 on 1, talk to me about their concerns that they're having, and then gives me an opportunity to be able to alleviate some of those concerns or collectively come up with solutions to some of their concerns. And I think being as transparent as possible with the information that I've been given has really positively impacted my professional journey because I think it's forced me to be a more transparent leader, and it's also really made me think about how are the to the world events of today affecting my team and how we're supporting our students, which is our primary job. So it's really helped me rethink how I'm supporting my team through uncertain times.

Susan Hua [00:03:31]: Hi. My name is Susan Hua. I use she/her pronouns, and I'm the director of diversity, equity, inclusion at the Community College of Aurora, which is an MSI HSI just outside of Denver, Colorado. The strategies that I've used to employ that I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career is really making sure that I have a community of folks around me who are able to help me unpack and debrief what I'm going through. I found that having a network of friends and colleagues who have been really close in my journey has been really helpful in terms of understanding the challenges I'm going through and also offering strategies and offering support in times of uncertainty.

Aileen Hentz [00:04:07]: My name is Aileen Hentz. I'm at the University of Maryland as the program director of academic and student services. I have embraced it fully. Many times, even now, I'm I'm 20 years into my career, I have stuck my foot in my mouth. So one thing that I have learned to do is try my hardest to think before speaking and to go with the flow and to be a little bit more thoughtful, and I think that might be some of the strategies.

Stephen Rice [00:04:41]: Steven Rice, director of the Office of Community Expectations at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, California. Some strategies that I use to embrace uncertainty, 1, to recognize uncertainty does happen all the time. And so you can't really prepare for it, but you can also be ready for it. And so I do that is looking at the positivity of it, making sure that I create networks with different resources on campus, so when those uncertainties come, figure out strategic stakeholders that can utilize to create a plan to really understand how to approach this uncertainty. But also going back and looking at how we learn and grow as individuals and as professionals, and how we are able to impact our university community positively by utilizing these different uncertainties and making the learning outcomes from it.

Amy Adam [00:05:22]: Hi. This is Amy Adam, and I am from the University of Missouri in Columbia. I have been a student services support manager for 20 years, serving graduate students. One of the big things about uncertainty in my career, I've seen a lot in the past 2 decades. We went through some budget cuts after a campus wide protest that affected our relationships with legislators. Those of us that served students on campus really held fast to our values and our goal to support students. So, really, we just did a lot of debriefing amongst staff as well as really making sure to reach out to our students to make sure that they knew that they were supported and can ask for anything, and we would either support them or get them to the right resource if they needed it.

Stephanie Cochrane [00:06:17]: Hi. I'm Stephanie Cochrane. I'm the director of student services at Northeastern University in Toronto. I'm here for NASPA for just the Sunday pre conference around graduate students. I think the main strategy is a growth mindset. Really in Toronto and especially Northeastern, we're growing at a really rapid pace and so we're keeping up with that. We also have a lot of students who are coming to the country for the first time, so international students. And having that growth mindset means that we can create innovative programming, try to try things for the first time, experiment a lot with our programming, see what works, what doesn't work, and continuously change and adjust as we go.

Amy Hecht [00:06:57]: Hi. My name is Amy Hecht. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Florida State University. I've been there 7 years now. The strategies I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career has really been leaning on mentors using my network, really having conversations about what is happening, whether it's at my institution or across the country. I've also employed a leadership coach that's been really helpful in processing what's happening at work or what's happening in life, and that's really helped me navigate different moments throughout my career. 

Shatera Davis [00:07:35]: Hi. My name is Shaterra Davis. I use she/her pronouns. I'm the director of student affairs at Northeastern in Seattle. Move with kindness and empathy has been one. I think it would be too simple to say treat people as how you want to be treated. I think it's more intentional than that, and so anytime I move careers, anytime that I support students, I always think about what would I have needed when I was a student, what did I get when I was a student, my why when I came into student affairs in higher education, and then giving myself grace and showing myself true kindness and empathy in those moments where it's tough is something that I just try to live by and move forward anytime, like, in my career and in my personal life.

Andy Wiegert [00:08:17]: I'm Andy Wiegert, director of graduate student affairs, arts and sciences, Washington University in Saint Louis. Yeah, it's a good question. I think actually coming from a different industry before I came to higher ed, I've been in higher ed now for about 11 or 12 years. I was really used to a more hierarchical structure that had very clear trajectories, and I've really had to lean in to just living in the moment and sort of being present at what I'm doing now and just trusting that as I build a network that my own development will just happen in kind.

Scott Peska [00:08:52]: Hi Scott Peska, Waubonsee Community College, Assistant Provost of Student Services. I think that the best part is trying to find ways to be resilient and one of the things that I learned early on was to always do things a little differently. So don't take the same route to work every day. Try to find new ways to just ensure that you're comfortable with change. And so we get into, like, a lot of ruts as human beings. And so we kinda get in the same patterns of behaviors. The more that we can kinda find ways to change it up so Tuesday, that's my secret. Tuesday is my day to do something different every week. It's a way to try to promote being flexible and that has helped me to process and be prepared for uncertainty when it comes up.

Dilna Cama [00:09:31]: Dilna Cama. I am a director within student life at the Ohio State University, and I am part of the off campus and commuter knowledge community. So in terms of strategies that I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career, Definitely keeping eye on what the final end goal is. It can be very difficult if you use COVID as a perfect example. It can be easy to get lost in the day to day barriers and challenges, but really making sure to keep focused on that end goal and be laser focused on that has really been helpful in my professional journey.

Sabina Kapoor [00:10:08]: My name is Sabina Kapoor, and I'm currently a a full time doctoral student with Capella University. I spent over 20 years in higher education as a staff within student affairs, student success, and academic affairs. So as I've progressed in my career, I've focused more on staff so that they can better serve students. I wanna go in deep with that, so that's why I'm pursuing the doctorate in IO Psychology because I wanna look at the relationship between the organization and the employee. There was a I guess you could you know, how we have midlife crisis. I had a kind of midlife crisis in my career, and so it was like I hit a ceiling and just really couldn't go further. So I had been wanting to pursue my PhD, and I knew that that would help me go further. So that's what I did. And so I've been on that journey now for a few years. It's been rough, but I just keep thinking of the end goal. And also, in this time, while I'm not working full time, but I'm still staying connected in higher ed in different ways. So I'm a member of NASPA, and so a member as a student, so I'm paying out of pocket and it's a little cheaper than being a full time staff. I'm also a member of Coupa, which is basically HR in in university and colleges, and, membership is cheap to free, I think. And so it's pretty I I think as a doctoral student, I have a membership for free. And so the thing is that I'm trying to keep connections and stay involved in organizations so that I know what, you know, basically what national trends are, what are best practices, especially since the pandemic. That really changed a lot of how we view things.

Carlie Weaver [00:11:48]: Hello. I am Carlie Weaver with Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm a programs coordinator for the student activities in Union office. To have a very flexible mindset and being open to change and being able to be flexible when things change at the last minute.

Roxanne Wright Watson [00:12:08]: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wright Watson. I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, and I'm happy to be here. So So I think most importantly for me, I am student centered. So in my career, I'm always wanting to do new things with my students in my in the classroom, faculty. So I wanna do new things in the classroom to help my students in more than just academically, but more so to help them in the world in their whole life in general. So I think that's an important thing, an important factor there for me.

Carla Ortega Santori [00:12:48]: My name is Carla Ortega Santori. I work at Rice University. I am the strategic initiatives manager at the Door Institute For New Leaders at Rice University, and my job is really about helping students elevate their leadership capacity and to also elevate the capacity of all campuses to do really great leader developments in education. So I would say that most of my jobs have been really ambiguous, like, they start off as something, then they turn into this other great thing. I guess I've always been more comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty, so I guess knowing that it's not something permanent helps to sort of adapt and thinking of different avenues to accomplish one thing is also helpful when when you think about accomplishing a goal.

Rachael Amaro [00:13:42]: I'm Rachel Amaro. I'm the admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership within the College of Education at Cal State Fullerton. I think that one of the main things has been reminding myself that I am one person and knowing what is in my control and what is not in my control. I think that's really hard in the profession in general. I think we all mostly are helpers, centered and ready for what my students need. And so I think that I can be re centered and ready for what my students need. And so I think that it's really helped me have an understanding of what it is I want to give to what I do and what I wanna get from what I do. I think that, again, the big takeaway for most people these days is what do I value about my time that's mine? And I think that I try to sort of encourage new staff members that I work with in this because I think a lot of them come in, again, wanting to go go go, which is great, but I also have to remind them, like, hey, like, you know, you have vacation days for a reason if you need it. And I feel like that's just something that's been really helpful to me to feel a little more like I have some balance to myself, and then it lends it to the work that I do.

Christine Wilson [00:16:23]: I'm Christine Wilson. I am in student affairs at UCLA. I have two roles. 1 is as the executive director for academic partnerships and the other is the program director for our masters in student affairs program. There's been a tremendous amount of uncertainty because of the pandemic, but I think everyone has uncertainty in their career because you don't know what's next or how that's gonna happen. And my strategy has been to embrace uncertainty because if you don't, you'll be unhappy and to take opportunities that come up in order to grow and learn more about how the university works, not just student affairs, but how everything works together. And through taking on things I've been asked to do, I've sometimes been incredibly busy, but it has helped me be much more effective because I have worked in so many different areas of student affairs just temporarily leading a unit or being involved in a task force.

Olivia Ruggieri [00:17:21]: Hi there. My name is Olivia Ruggieri. I'm the associate director of administration operations for Northeastern University Seattle campus. I grew up in Pennsylvania, went to 2013, but I've been working for the university since 2018. I would say just tapping into the network of professionals around me, having other folks review my work, and if I'm nervous about something, making sure that I'm not the only person, like, putting that message out into the world. And a lot of that came into place in during COVID 19 where we to be really clear with our messaging. Of course, there's a lot of uncertainty, and we wanted to make sure that our students got the right information the first time. Because things were changing so rapidly, we couldn't risk, like, confusion in the day to

Christle Foster [00:18:11]: day. Hi. My name is Christle Foster, and I'm from Chesapeake College located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in Wymeals. Working during the pandemic was definitely some uncertainty, especially when we had to switch from being face to face to online. And in my role as an executive director of Trio Programs, it was especially difficult to recruit students online because many of them became disengaged. So definitely, that helped me to learn how to be adaptive as well as how to be responsive to change because that was a lot of change very quickly. We got notice, like, a couple of days that we were shutting down and I had to switch gears and help my staff switch gears in that time of uncertainty.

Nathalie Waite Brown [00:18:49]: My name is Nathalie Waite Brown. I am the assistant dean of students and director for graduate student life at Stevens Institute of Technology located in Hoboken, New Jersey. I think what I've used that it's been the most successful is pause and then practice. Being able to take a a moment just to stop and think about what isn't working and what I want to work, and then putting those things into practice, and that may mean reconnecting with my mentor. It may mean taking a class. It may be connecting with students, but really just taking a moment to pause and reflect to be able to move forward and put what I need into practice.

Dae'lyn Do [00:19:27]: My name is Dae'lyn Do. I use sheher pronouns, and I am the associate director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence program at the University of Michigan, and I am coming into the position of the WISA KC co chair. For me, personally, I feel like relying on my people to get me through kind of the when I have questions about things or come across challenges, I just reach out to my colleagues or my mentors and help process through things. I think all of us have to work together in this field to really rely on each other to try to get through those challenges together and utilize each other's experiences and knowledge and just keep sharing that with each other.

Natalie DeRosa [00:20:09]: So my name is Natalie DeRosa, and I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. So I'll start by saying that I'm a young professional. I think the key is to keep calm, and I'm still learning, and that's why I'm here. That's why I'm at NASPA, is to learn how to do that and do it gracefully.

Dan Volchek [00:20:38]: Dan Volchek, assistant dean of student success at Harvard Griffin Grad School of Arts and Sciences. In embracing uncertainty, I've looked at what other schools do and read publications about that and that has helped me manage the uncertainty that I faced during my career of which have been a number of pieces. But the biggest thing I think the strategy I've used is networking with people, utilizing my connections in NASPA to help me get through the uncertainty that I faced in my career and my professional journey.

Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:12]: Vaughn Calhoun, Seton Hall University, hehim. Yeah. I think for me, really, it's just pausing and making sure that you can understand the the context of of what's happened to the best of your abilities and knowing that things can change, and they probably will change, but also knowing that you can only control the controllable. And for me, it's attitude and effort. And it's one thing I always share with my staff is we can control what we can control. Those things we can't control, we shouldn't spend too much time thinking about it and just do what we can.

Darlene Robinson [00:21:43]: My name is Darlene Robinson. I'm the RISE gen 1 director for Seton Hall University. Some of the strategies that I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career is more so looking inward, sitting with certain questions, ideas, and things that I, as a person, would like to have in a career, and just figuring out how that how what I have and what I need can impact those around me and best service students or coworkers that I come in contact with, and asking questions of those people as well to know what it is that they need and how I can provide it.

Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:22:21]: Hello. My name is Miguel Angel Hernandez. I am the associate vice president and dean of students at San Francisco State University. I think one of the things that I do related to strategies is really ground myself and center myself in the idea and concept that a greater power is at work, that nothing whatever situation comes. I think the second piece that's important about that that brings me a lot of confidence is that I don't have to navigate uncertainty alone. Here at NASPA is a reminder that we are a part of an amazing professional association. Through relationship and thinking with partners and coming up with strategies or responses to the critical issues that are facing our profession today, I do believe that we are able to emerge better than we were yesterday. And so when I think about uncertainty, what brings me comfort is that I am only a text message, phone call, social media post away from an amazing network of thought partners, and that has guided me and continues to guide me. I think in terms of how this has positively impacted my professional journey is that it allows me not to feel like I have to know everything or be over prepared or have every aspect of a job description or an invitation under my belt because again, we are not in this alone. Together, we thrive.

David Chao [00:23:47]: Hello. My name is David Chow. My pronouns are hehim. I serve as the director of IT for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, and I'm also the chair of the technology knowledge community. I think I spent a lot of time trying to plan ahead and anticipate. I think planning, while you can't plan for everything, it can certainly help and to help minimize variability whenever possible. It's just helped to mitigate that. But it's not always easy. And, unfortunately, as we just came off the pandemic, there are times when we just don't have a plan and we have to go with it, but I think planning in general still builds up a habit that is helpful even in times of uncertainty.

Melinda Stoops [00:24:20]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I serve as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. In looking at my career in student affairs, which has been over 20 years at this point, there have certainly been many points of uncertainty. And even though I've employed different strategies at different points in times and in different situations, I really think the one constant point for me has really been connecting with others and opening up, even if just to one person, about something I'm dealing with where I feel uncertain. There's nothing better than having someone listen to you and support you, and I so much value my network both within student affairs and outside of student affairs. And I feel like regardless of the situation, that's always been something really helpful for me is to feel like someone's there supporting me even if they don't have the answers per se, but that I just have someone who is in my corner and cheering me on. And sometimes they provide great guidance as well.

Derek Grubb [00:25:20]: Derek Grubb, Dean of Enrollment Management for Red Rocks Community College in Colorado. Biggest strategy I really just employ is strength in the knowledge of others. I've always believed building a team that has unique strengths, can lean on each other, and so you're able to be more agile and reflecting and promoting those strengths in each person.

Matt Imboden [00:25:41]: My name is Matt Imboden. I use the hehim pronouns. I serve as the chief student services officer in the School of Business at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And, for the past few years, I've also been chairing the administrators and graduate and professional student services knowledge community for NASPA. So I think I've found that during times of uncertainty, it's taken me a few knee scrapes along the way. But I think I've learned that at that time is kinda when your motivating values are kinda the clearest, and they sort of help to clarify things for you, renew your focus. And so during times of uncertainty or stress or strain, as I kinda come back to the things that one, got me engaged in the work I do in the 1st place. I mean, that, like, truly motivate you without kinda being distracted by all the tasks and initiatives and ideas that tend to pile up, but kind of focus on our students, what excites us about working for and with them, but then also increasingly to try to be a good leader for other staff and faculty colleagues to make a difference at our institutions.

Evette Castillo Clark [00:26:39]: Evette Castillo Clark, vice president for student life and dean of students at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon. I employ a strategy of being an iterative thinker. So sometimes what that means is working with your team, working with your staff to pilot things or think through things and outcomes or problems to a solution, throw it on the wall, see if it works, and it's okay if there's mistakes or if it's okay if it didn't work. You regroup, and you think through and toy through the uncertainty and the problem again. So I think one of the soft skills that it is really becoming the skills is really being flexible with your thinking, being understanding that sometimes that first go around, it's not gonna work, but you retool and you regroup and you go at it again, and you might actually have to convene different stakeholders to actually help you with the problem to address the uncertainty again.

Madeline Frisk [00:27:33]: Hello. My name is Madeline Frisk. I work at Portland State University. I'm the coordinator of student government relations and advisor to Greek life. So I work with our student government, all of the committees and groups within that, as well as 4 strong and mighty small Greek life groups as well. I would say being a retired navy brat, navigating uncertainty was kinda a part of the career, we'll say. Navigating, moving every 3 years, I got pretty used to adapting, being the new kid, and I think that served me well now in the student affairs profession with all the ups and downs we can navigate with our career.

Gene Zdziarski [00:28:08]: This is Gene Zdziarski. I'm vice president for student affairs at DePaul University. I think the biggest thing when there's times of uncertainty and questioning is you try to do your homework, you try to learn more about the situation, and I think what I found to be most helpful is utilizing my professional network, reaching out to my colleagues in the profession, getting their perspective, hearing what they've thought. This is clearly one of the places that, at least for me, NASPA has served as my professional home, and the people that I interact are really that support network that I use throughout my career to help guide me and make decisions not only about what's happening on my campus and how to better serve students, but also, how I might look at next steps or where my professional journey is going to go.

Lyza Liriano [00:28:54]: Hello. My name is Lyza Liriano. I currently serve as an area coordinator at DePaul University in Housing and Residence Life. Originally, I am from Brooklyn, New York. I think that as there has been a lot of uncertainty within higher ed, especially post pandemic, I remember being a grad student not knowing if the program would continue in terms of my grad assistantship in housing and being very nervous about, is this the career that I wanna go to, even though it was something that I really love. I think what I started doing then and what I continue to do now is really just tapping in on my network, and really just having those people that I can go to to provide me with hope. So a lot of my old directors, old supervisors, and assistant directors have been really just a sounding board for me, providing words of encouragement and really just also finding people outside of higher education that I can just lean on when I need someone to talk work with that don't necessarily know what I'm talking about when I'm talking about work.

Jackie Cetera [00:29:54]: Jackie Cetera. I use sheher pronouns, and I serve as the director of residential education at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. I would say that mentoring has been really impactful for me. Having different mentors throughout my career to help me through whatever my day to day or just life throws my way has really helped me. For individuals to provide the time and the space to talk through situations has really had a positive impact on me and has gotten me heavily

Lisa Landreman [00:30:36]: My name is Lisa Landreman. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. So I would say how I've prepared myself and established for uncertainty, maintaining flexibility and humility, I think I would start with and making sure that I'm able to be calm, cool, collected, that I am taking care of my own well-being. It starts there. And so having good balance, having good support, having my network in place for when things get hard. So when I'm can be centered and prepared, I'm better able to handle the uncertainty and the anxiousness and the crisis that comes. I think it has helped me be a stronger leader when I can model calmness and that I am not rattled with the ebb and flow of whether it's the world or our campus or student issues. I think being well read and well versed in issues in the field, so professional conferences, professional connections, institutes, networks has really helped me stay grounded in new ideas, creative solutions, best practice, collaboration.

Lisa Landreman [00:31:42]: And so I feel like I have kept my toolkit and my skills honed. You know, that isn't just I get my master's degree and get my PhD and I'm done. That it is I am constantly looking for where do I need to learn more and who could I learn it from or where could I learn that. So I feel like even if I don't know something in the moment, I know who I could connect with, where to go, who might have it, what resource do I need to brush up on. I think both those personal qualities of being okay with me and then being well versed, but then also knowing that it's okay that we don't know in the instant how to respond, that to take a moment to find the answer, to listen to solutions. Also, I would say hiring a really strong team around me and then modeling for them to be that we are a learning organization, so so that we're gonna learn together, that we create opportunities in our weekly meetings or in our retreats and things, that we are I am modeling that kind of learning. We read articles together. We present to one another that we share learnings on a regular basis. And so that has served me to both cultivate stronger professionals in my organization, also motivation and enthusiasm about learning new things, and also just it has allowed us to be a team in these uncertain times. Right? That we can work together, that we might make some mistakes along the way, but we can quickly recover because we're a learning organization.

Jackie Yun [00:33:03]: Hi. I'm Jackie Yun. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the Harvard Griffin GSAS Student Center. I think that sometimes with uncertainty comes opportunity, and so some of the pivots in my career have actually turned out to be excellent silver linings and opportunities to specialize or to pivot, go to a different type of institution, work with different type of student, and so I've tried to see those as opportunities to learn. I think creating a learning mindset and just seeing everything as an opportunity to expand what we know keeps it interesting too.

Leanna Fenneberg [00:33:37]: Hello. This is Leanna Feneberg. I'm the incoming chief student affairs officer at Duquesne University. I have had the experience of positions being eliminated and having to start a national job search and relocate with my family. And while those have been troubling times, I see them as wonderful opportunities to reflect on who I am and what I value and what I want in my next position and have always appreciated when one door closes, another one opens and seeing the opportunities that lie ahead.

Jake Murphy [00:34:10]: Jake Murphy, I'm the director of prospective students services at OSU Institute of Technology, and I am over all recruitment and retention efforts at the university. So probably the biggest thing that I have put in place has been growth mindset. That's been a big one to be able to make sure that I am doing the best that I can and make sure that my team is in top form but also making sure that they look towards their professional goals because it is for recruitment, it's a stepping stone for a lot of people.

Larry Pakowski [00:34:39]: Larry Pakolski. I'm the vice president for student engagement, inclusion, and success at Aims Community College in Greeley, Colorado. I think the biggest thing is looking at kind of what students need and and their voice in the equation, and then letting that be the north star, like students first always. And then we get into the budget and what's possible and how soon can we do that by really kind of keeping that north star of students first.

Jillaine Zenkelberger [00:35:02]: Hi. I'm Dr. Jillaine Zenkelberger. I am the program coordinator over at Graduate Student Life at the University of Notre Dame. My professional career has been, even though somewhat short still has been kinda all over the place. I started as a social worker in foster care and now I'm here in grad services and I think uncertainty is just for me I utilize my uncertainty in my career path. I try to frame it as a benefit because I have a really diverse background with social work in my background, psychology, and really utilizing these skills to serve the community that I'm in now which is grad students. Also, my own journey as a grad student has really affected the way I work and how I interact with my students.

Kristen Merchant [00:35:48]: Hi, everyone. I'm Kristen Merchant. I am from Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I am the associate director of the Union and Student Activities Office there and also the director of our lead programs. Some strategies that I have employed to embrace uncertainty is I always like to come to everything with a plan. I always say plan for anything that could possibly happen, but then also being flexible enough to pivot for my Friends fans and be able to kind of adjust to the various situations.

Joe Lizza [00:36:18]: My name is Dr. Joe Lizza. I'm the director of the Chamberlain Student Center and Campus Activities at Rowan University in New Jersey. I think early on, I tried to kinda shape some of the work that I do in really in my interests. So I really find stuff that I have true interest and then try to kinda shape that position or shape that professional development opportunity to kinda really be 100% fully engaged. And I've also always been open to opportunity even when it maybe there was uncertainty. So in the idea of not knowing what possibly I might do or my next step, I always kind of rose to the idea that, hey, let me try this new opportunity out. What's the worst that could happen? And it's ultimately kinda worked out for me.

Joshua Allred [00:37:03]: My name is Joshua Allred. I work at Louisiana State University in the College of Agriculture as their manager of student services. I think when I think about uncertainty, I try to find in any job that I apply for or when I choose to stay where I'm at. Most recently, it's all been about the people that I work with. And so if I have strong leadership and I feel really comfortable with that leadership, that uncertainty feels a little bit more easy to navigate because I feel a lot of strength in that leadership.

Kelley O'Neal [00:37:30]: Hello. Kelley O'Neal. I am at Texas A&M University, and I am the executive director of the Marylin Kent Burns Student Success Center. So one of the things I continue to do is try to be innovative and think what's next? What more can I do to support students and support student success? I don't wanna come in and do the same programs over and over again. I want to do my best to collaborate, whether it's with my partners in academic affairs or my partners in student affairs. But whenever uncertainty comes, then that says, how do I make sure that students are successful? Because in uncertainty, they wanna make sure that what you're doing is supporting student success. So that's what I do.

Kelley O'Neal [00:38:19]: I would say recently, the strategies that I've employed is really falling to networking and mentorship. In early career, I don't think I valued those two pieces as much as I do in my later stages of my career, and finding mentors that can help me shape my career trajectory for the last part of my career, and taking advantage of things like the Institute For Aspiring VP's here at NASPA, as well as other maybe smaller regional conferences and conferences within the graduate school community to help create that next plan for my career, but definitely mentoring and networking.

Katie Caponera [00:39:03]: I'm Katie Caponera, director of student life at Harvard Divinity School. I think the biggest approach to approaching uncertainty has just been to remain open to new ideas and new possibilities and never get too attached or set into what's traditional or what's always this is how we've always done it. That can be a challenge at a place that is as old and has as much history as Harvard and one of its affiliates, But being one of the smaller schools at Harvard, we've we have the ability to try some new approaches and some new directions with a little bit more fluidity given that we're kind of in the corner and small, but just not not being precious about how things have been done in the past, but really engaging, you know, what ideas the students are bringing to us because they're the best indicators of what they need on campus.

Kathy Dilks [00:39:58]: My name is Kathy Dilks, and I am the director of graduate student and post doctoral affairs at the Icahn School of Medicine, the Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. I think the strategy that I always employ is staying connected with my colleagues and being open and honest with my peers. I rely on the people around me to help me navigate certain waters and certain uncertainties, and I rely on other people to help me gain valuable insight.

Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:40:30]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, vice president for student success for the University of Indiana University. It's not really a system. It's a multi campus university, but we can say Indiana University System if that's easier for folks to kind of place the role. When I think about strategies employed to embrace uncertainty, you know, this may sound a little bit trite, maybe not. I just constantly important because, you know, there are elements of ethics and integrity that are woven into the how, but there are multiple ways to get there. And so when it feels uncertain or it feels strange, if I can go back to what it is at my core or as an organization, the mission or the purpose, I think it really helps to ground you and then you can move forward through that uncertainty.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:17]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:58]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

**Breaking Ground as a First-Generation Trailblazer** 

In this episode of SA Voices From The Field Dr. Jill Creighton had the chance to speak with Alejandra Campoverdi, a formidable force advocating for women's health and an inspiration for many first-generation college students. Her memoir, 'First Gen: A Memoir,' beautifully encapsulates the emotional complexities that accompany the breaking of generational barriers, a theme that resonates deeply with many of our podcast's listeners.

Alejandra's narrative is both personal and universal, detailing her own struggle with panic attacks and other challenges as she navigated the social ladders of legacy-based institutions. Her experience in the White House, and the pivotal role mentors played in her journey, offers a powerful testament to the lasting impact of educators and advocates across different walks of life.

**Legacy and the Emotional Rhyme of Generations**

Alejandra poetically introduces the concept of 'generational rhyming,' drawing lines between the past and present experiences. By reflecting on the courage of women in her family—those who confidently stepped away from chaotic relationships while carrying the burden of pregnancy—Alejandra emphasizes the inheritance of resilience and the personal choice to either continue or modify the legacy we carry forward.

**The Cultural Tapestry of Health and Sacrifice**

This episode also delves into Alejandra's advocacy for women's health, illustrating the interweaving of cultural expectations and individual wellness. Her frank discussion on BRCA mutation and confronting a familial pattern of breast cancer underscores the critical necessity of breaking cycles, not only socially and economically but also health-wise.

**Systemic Issues and the Imposter Experience**

Alejandra's views on 'imposter syndrome' are particularly enlightening, challenging the notion that it stems solely from personal insecurity rather than also being rooted in systemic disparities. This perspective invites a broader conversation on the structural changes needed to support and validate the experiences of those breaking new ground.

**Connecting with Alejandra Campoverdi**

Listeners can reach out to Alejandra Campoverdi via her DMs on Instagram, LinkedIn, or her website. Her gracious acknowledgment of her mentors, including her former White House boss, and her thanks to the NASPA family and Dina from the First Gen Center, that manifests an ecosystem of support that many 'firsts' heavily rely on. 

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back essay voices. It was amazing to run into so many of you at the annual conference, and thank you again for continuing to listen to us. Today, we're gonna be releasing the first of several annual conference episodes, and we were thrilled to sit down with the closing keynote speaker, Alejandra Campaverdi. Alejandra is a nationally recognized women's health advocate, best selling author, founder, producer, and former White House aide to President Obama.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: Alejandra's memoir, First Gen: A Memoir, examines the often unacknowledged emotional tolls of being a trailblazer. A national bestseller, 1st Gen is the winner of the California Independent Booksellers Alliance Golden Poppy Martin Cruz Smith Award and long listed for the outstanding works of literature award for the 1st year experience. 1st Gen is also the 2024 Opportunity Matters book club selection for the Council For Opportunity in Education, a national book club for 1st generation and low income students at colleges and universities across the country. Previously, Alejandra served in the Obama White House as the 1st White House deputy director of Hispanic Media. She produced and appeared in the groundbreaking PBS documentary, Inheritance, and founded the Latinos and BRCA Awareness Initiative in partnership with Penn Medicine's Master Center for BRCA. Alejandra holds a master in public policy from Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government and graduated cum laude from USC. She currently serves on the boards of Harvard's Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy, and the California Community Foundation. I hope you enjoy our conversation.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:50]: We were able to have this one live in person, so you may notice some slight audio differences in quality. Please enjoy and we're also going to be bringing you couple more bonus episodes throughout the next couple of weeks. Alejandra, welcome to SA Voices.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:02:03]: Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:05]: I am really excited to get to know you a little bit and we really appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to talk to SA Voices here in Seattle.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:02:12]: I know. It's fun to be in Seattle. Right?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:13]: Is this your first time?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:02:14]: No. I was actually here a few weeks ago for another conference, but I had so much fun eating my way through the city.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: Oh, what was your favorite thing?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:02:22]: That was a lot. The crumpets over at the Pike Place Market, incredible.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: Crumpets. Okay. That's a new one. Most of my friends say Top Pot Donuts is their their jam or, I haven't been to the crumpet spot.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:35]: This is my hometown so it's always fun for me to see people discover it through fresh eyes.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:02:39]: Nice. Well, you have to give us your tips then.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:42]: Really, it's just don't eat downtown. I think it's my biggest tip. Most of my friends and family enjoy restaurants kind of more out in the community. But we are glad to have you here as our closing keynote speaker for NASPA 2024 here in Seattle. On our theme of transitions, you were just an excellent guest to have to talk about all the transitions you've gone through in your life. Your book right now is 1st Gen, a memoir, and that has been just a really beautiful read. I've been able to take a look at least the first couple of chapters and and really kind of get to know you through that lens. But I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about your journey as you've written about it.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:03:17]: Well, thank you for reading it, Amy. I feel really honored to be invited to speak at NASPA. As I say in the book, the reason why I felt compelled to write it really was because, you know, as someone who was a Pell Grant recipient myself and grew up in a lot of pipeline programs and nonprofits, when I would go and speak to young people, especially students even before this book was even an idea in my mind, I noticed that there seemed to be a lot kind of hanging in the air. Some mixed emotions and almost like looks on folks' faces that I recognize on my own face at these kind of transitional achievement moments that should kind of be 1 dimensional but kind of weren't. And as I noticed that, I started kind of changing the way that I would speak and the kinds of stories I would share. And the more vulnerable I was about how it was harder than many times we're led on to believe in inspirational speeches, really helped crystallize for me how much of not only my own experience but a lot of our experiences have some shame around them that there are conflicting emotions that we don't always share even though they're so completely widespread. And a lot of it namely about the emotional toll of social mobility and the American dream as it's been presented to us. And, you know, in the book, I really talk about how it's for first and only.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:04:45]: I call us first and only because it isn't just this gatekeeper definition of who has a right to kinda like that first gen experience. I understand that in in academia and in different institutions, you need to have a definition of who qualifies and doesn't qualify. But for this emotional experience in the book, it's about being as inclusive as possible because this experience of cycle breaking and that emotional toll transcends race and gender and and so many different experiences. So that was a lens that I discussed this with, and I really use my own story growing up, you know, as the daughter of a single mom who had immigrated from Mexico a few years before I was born to kind of be the companion of walking through a lot of these different dynamics.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:33]: You talk about generational rhyming in your book as part of that transition story. Can you talk to us about what you mean by that?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:05:39]: Well, as a part of this book, I named something called the trailblazer tool. And I don't name that from a position of authority as someone who is a trauma specialist or an academic or a specialist in psychology or so on. The reason why I do that is because as I mentioned, you can't heal from that which you don't name. Mhmm. And so how do we create space for this holistic view that doesn't only include imposter syndrome but includes the way that being a cycle breaker first and only moves throughout our entire life even before we get to school and for many, many years after. You know, once by the time you're a 1st gen student, you've been 1st gen already many times over and you'll continue to be 1st gen. And so to that point, how is it that this even began pre birth? When you're thinking about generational inheritance and emotional inheritances, when you're looking for those answers, they say history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. Mhmm.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:06:35]: Well, what is the rhyme that is coming from our family? And they're not just negative. Many are positive. It's not just about generational trauma. It's about emotional inheritances and those I call them invisible inheritances. Many times they're intertwined. Many times, you know, you're looking at the fact in my instance, I have a great grandmother and a mother who both left very chaotic borderline abusive relationships while they were pregnant. Mhmm. Now that's not an inheritance that I would wanna continue.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:07:06]: Yet if you say it a little differently, I have 2 women in my family that left these relationships while they were pregnant. I mean, think of the strength and fortitude it takes to do something like that. So, I mean, I'm proud to be a a beneficiary of that inheritance. And then the third part is the inheritances that we choose to perpetuate as our own future ancestors right now. You know, every day, we have a choice to become a better ancestor. Mhmm. So those are the rhymes that not only we're coming into these lives with, but the rhymes that we're choosing to continue and be intentional about and maybe tweak a little bit. That intentionality is a lot of the end game because I don't have all the answers and this book doesn't pretend like it has all the answers.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:07:51]: But it's about validating and acknowledging a lot of what as first and only is we almost feel like we don't know have the privilege too many times.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:58]: I'm wondering if you can talk to us a bit about being a first generation student who entered collegiate spaces that are really legacy based institutions where maybe you're entering with classmates who have multiple generations of people who went to those institutions who know how they work, who understand the nuance and the subtleties of social culture and enter with a lot more social capital on how to engage in those worlds and how you found yourself evolving into those spaces and ultimately thriving in them.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:08:25]: Well, just how Invisible Inheritance is kind of where we start, you know, a couple steps forward is what I call chutes and social ladders. And I don't know if you remember the board game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chutes and Ladders. And the reason why I named it that was because that's what it kind of felt like to me. You know, you land on the right spot.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:08:44]: You do everything just right and you shoot into this different social class, into this different just like societal plane that feels so foreign, yet if you've messed up, God forbid don't do it just perfectly, you can backslide completely out of it. Right? Yeah. Without warning sometimes. Absolutely. And it feels really precarious. And to me, that made sense to me as a way to look at it. In the book, I talk about the familial chaos that I was in, this kind of pressure cooker, as well as in the romantic relationship that I highlight in the book. That's also something else that was, you know, leading to a lot of personal angst.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:09:25]: Mhmm. Yet the way that I was dealing with that was in a lot of ways of trying to kind of stabilize and have some semblance of control in my life by overachieving. Mhmm. You know, how that overachieving and sometimes that perfectionism can be as well as ambition, but can also be a coping mechanism for trauma. Right? And so I was making myself a really good college applicant at the same time as I was really struggling with a lot of issues around this kind of dynamics in my home and my relationships. So by the time I get to USC, it was one blurry summer apart from a very different kind of cultural experience where if anything, I was teased for, quote, acting white because I would get good grades. But then you get to college, and I remember by then, I was already struggling very much with panic attacks and panic disorder, and I had my mom be on campus with me. I grew up under 20 miles from USC's campus but had never visited.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:10:27]: You know, you don't visit colleges. Who does that? Like, what is that? So my mom is there with me pushing this running stroller around with my little sister, and I just didn't want her to be out of my sight because I felt so much pressure. Like, a lot of these students I know. I hear from them. I'm traveling around the country right now talking to them. So much pressure that not only did I have to do this to kind of this was my chance to, you know, break that cycle of poverty, but this was also my chance to help my mom, to help my family. You know, it was this kinda like double layer of stress. And my mom went to the parent orientation and I'm sitting there and feeling that, and all of a sudden, my ears start ringing.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:11:05]: Everything starts getting spinny, and I run out of Boulevard Auditorium in USC and pass out in the middle of campus. So when I came to, somebody had gone to get my mom, and we went to the health center, and then they gave me a prescription and, you know, sent me on my way. And I remember sitting on a bench with her and thinking, oh my god. Am I gonna be able to do this? I worked so hard to be able to get there, and it felt like everything was within grasp that I had dreamed of, that we had dreamed of. But I didn't know if I could physically do it because all of these experiences and these emotional experiences that we're talking about had started catching up with me. Mhmm. You know, and that's that's not something that's unique to me. Right? Because there's a saying I point to in the book, when you're skating over thin ice, your speed is your safety.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:11:52]: Mhmm. And many times that's what it feels like when you're cycle breaking and you're kind of trying to adjust to these new kinda stratosphere jumps, you don't have time to really process what's happening. You're just kind of surviving and morphing and adapting however you can. And there was a lot that was coming up for me at that time. I was fortunate that, you know, my mom was able to help me kind of navigate a little bit but in a lot of ways I ended up experiencing a whole another big jump that was difficult to recalibrate. At the time, my mom, not knowing any better, encouraged me to get involved with the Greek system.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:30]: Okay.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:12:30]: And we can imagine at that time, USC in the late nineties, early 2000, you know, that was like taking me to the most extreme example of kind of world jumping and recalibrating and understanding what that meant for my Latinidad and how it expressed itself on campus. How I was able to show up and fit into a system that had experiences that were beyond my comprehension and how it is that I was able to do that and manage all that while at the same time trying to keep up with grades. And it it was a lot. And I go into this a lot deeper in the book about what that felt like, but I definitely don't. And I'm not saying now nor do I say in the book that I figured it all out. Mhmm. The point was that I was white knuckling it. The point was that I was surviving in that space in those spaces as best I could, but not really understanding a lot of the dynamics that they weren't personal to me.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:32]: Like many women of color who are leading in new spaces, you've had transitions in this academic space, you've had transitions with health, and you've had transitions in career. So I wanna talk a little bit about your transitions in health because you're well known as a women's health advocate. When you were going through your own health transitions, how did you balance that with everything else that was going on in the world?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:13:53]: Well, I didn't know that I because I'm a BRCA mutation carrier, hereditary cancer in my family, but I didn't know that until I was in my thirties. So what I did know was that women in my family tended to all get breast cancer. And until my mom's generation, they would pass away from breast cancer. So it was especially when my mom was diagnosed and I was in my early twenties, that was a really pivotal time as far as just graduating from school and trying to figure out, I call it the lonely hustle, how to kind of go after my dreams without any safety net.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:28]: Mhmm.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:14:28]: When my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer, I realized I didn't really have the privilege to do that. I had a little sister that I assumed I was gonna be a single mom too. And so I went home to help take care of my mom during that time and, you know, slept on the air mattress in her living room. And as far as I was concerned, that was it. Your parents, a lot of times, you feel like they sacrifice so much for you to have these opportunities and that feels especially in the dynamics and the cultural dynamics in a lot of our communities that that's a collectivist mindset about what it means when you drop everything to be able to take care of the family unit. And so I didn't realize back then that that was something that I was also going to have to face. Mhmm. But breast cancer has been an ongoing drumbeat throughout my entire life.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:15:17]: You know, I don't go into my own journey with breast cancer in this book because this book ends before that happens. But, you know, when you're thinking about cycle breaking even with our own bodies, you know, how it is we disrupt these cycles in our families and the choice that I made to have preventative surgery at the time, not knowing that when it was after the fact of the surgery, we would discover in retrospect that actually I did have an active breast cancer already developing, which validated that choice. But all that to say is our health is another way that we're able to try to break some of these cycles. And I always say, you know, like one of the the biggest cycles that we can break and we don't always think about is to give ourselves the privilege of rest and balance and that kind of wellness on every different level because we can break cycles of poverty. We can be the first to go to college. We can be the first to have a job or buy a house or so on. But unless we do some of this inner work, one of the biggest cycles that can lead to illness in our body but for sure in our minds and our emotional health is not gonna get broken. 

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:32]: When you think about cycle break in your own life, what advice do you give to others on how they can also engage in that work?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:16:36]: I think that the first step is to be conscious of it, to acknowledge it. And that's the energy that this book is written in for us to know ourselves and for us to know each other and for us to know that we're not alone in these experiences because a lot of it feels so isolating and a lot of it feels just really personal. And if I I've learned anything I mean, I've been to dozens of colleges now across the country. I've been really blessed to speak to so many educators as well. And it's the same experience of nodding everywhere that I go. Mhmm. Nodding in tears and acknowledgement. And sometimes people will raise their hands and I remember I was speaking in Miami, and this gentleman raised his hand.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:17:17]: He said, how do you deal with, like, the loneliness? And he started crying. And I looked out at the crowd, and I and I tell you, there were so many people crying. And I told them, I said, well, take a look around. Do you feel alone? Look at all these people that that are feeling the same thing you're feeling. And that's what the energy that this book is hopefully calling us to, which is to take a look around and acknowledge all the nodding heads.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:45]: I think one of the most powerful things you do in this book is give voice to a common experience that a lot of people are afraid to talk about or afraid to say out loud because we live in a capitalist society. We're fearful of being perceived as, you know, not always out in front of things sometimes. So I really appreciate that you're naming a lot of this, and it's clearly resonating with audiences around the country, and I'm sure will be very resonant for our NASPA members here, especially for our professionals who are 1st and onlys or are there 1st gen in their family to attain a university degree and then likely an advanced degree, and now we're all working in this field where a lot of people don't really understand our work. It's kind of an ongoing joke in student affairs that even our own parents don't understand what we do on a daily basis.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:18:26]: And I write about that in the book that that's a loneliness inducing experience as as well that I write about when you go home. And I mean, I would come home from the White House and I wouldn't get questions about my work, and that's at a neutral level. Then there's the hands of the students where they raise their hands and say, I'm dissuaded from doing these things. They're told, like, why are you doing this? Why don't you get a more job where you make more money? Why would you study abroad? That's a waste of your time. Almost kind of getting this negative messaging. But to your point, that's why I feel so honored to be speaking here at NASPA because on so many different levels, a, you guys are the ones on the ground. You guys are the ones on the ground with these students every day working so hard and doing so much to support the leaders of the future. And also because I see very clearly how many of the educators I'm speaking to are literally these students who also had the same experience.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:19:23]: You know, we get called to the work that we do, whether it's writing books or being an educator because of something usually very personal. We're called to something because of the empathy many times that we have for experiences. And like I said earlier, the book is written not just about that part of the student experience. There's many many chapters about what happens when you're on the other side of the sausage maker, which is all of us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:49]: Mhmm.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:19:50]: And you're gonna spit out the other side and you're like, okay, woah, what happened? Because there is a point where you're the arc of the first gen experience kind of concludes. That doesn't mean that you don't have ambitions for the future and you don't have all these other things you wanna accomplish, but that initial kind of ascension into breaking out of certain cycles, same things that originally was driving me? Are they the same things or have they shifted? And if they've shifted, then how is it that I show up differently? You also name feelings of imposter syndrome in

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:31]: the book, especially when you're first invited into the White House spaces and during your process of getting top secret security clearance and all of those things. How did you work through those feelings of imposter syndrome even though you're sitting in some of the most powerful spaces in the world at that point in time and knowing that so many of our listeners are facing impostor syndrome in their own careers even though, you know, we're all qualified to be in the spaces we're in?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:20:53]: Well, one of the things that I really make a point to highlight in the book is I actually really have a problem with the idea of impostor syndrome as it was presented to me. I'll make it personal, as I've seen it be presented also in general, is the idea that it really is about this crisis of confidence singularly and not about the second part of it, the other side of the coin, which is no matter how confident we are, how it is that the way that we show up or we're received in these spaces and in these kind of constructs that is reflected back to us sometimes that we don't belong in ways that are subtle and not so subtle at times.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:29]: I think imposter syndrome syndrome's a system issue personally. Right? It's 2 ways.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:21:34]: Exactly. I mean, it's 2 ways. We we still have to acknowledge our contributions and show up in that space and there's systemic issues at play too. And so that's the lens through which I talk about it at that time at the White House and not just at the White House, but that nuance, I think, is helpful because I know when I used to blame myself for feeling a lack of confidence, it's not fair on top of everything else. It's also we're pointing the arrow directly back at students to just feel more confident and not acknowledging the dynamics with which they're operating.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:14]: Is there anything else you want our NASPA membership to hear from you today? Just that

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:22:18]: I had several inflection points that I talk about in the book that really had to do with either an educator or a mentor, someone in a position of power saying something, doing something that completely changed my life. And I wasn't someone who had mentors that would follow my life for decades. You know, it was these angels that sometimes would step in and sometimes would derail, you know. Sometimes people help you in ways that are positive and negative to kinda get you back on track. Mhmm. But the point is that these people in my life and certain things they said and didn't encourage me to do changed everything. And so I like I said, my message is gratitude to this community for being the in the spaces between the bullet points because that's what I call it in the book. That's what the book is.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:23:08]: I wanted to write something that didn't just look at the bullet points on my resume or in my bio the same way that all of us have our schools and our achievements and our jobs, but that's not where the real story lies. It's really in the spaces between those bullet points and that's where you guys are. That's where the whole story goes one way or another. And so it's just expressing my gratitude for the work that you do and for the way that you're changing lives every day. Before we go to our break, I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:37]: would be remiss if I didn't ask how cool is it to be on Air Force

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:23:40]: There's nothing cooler.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:43]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:49]: Thanks so much, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world. And today, I am really excited to be able to share some amazing news. If you missed it, an email was sent out after the annual conference that NASPA has selected a new president. We are thrilled to share with you that the outcome of the national search of the NASPA president has concluded. And after a thoughtful and deliberate process spanning the past 6 months, the NASPA board of directors have selected Dr. Amelia Parnell as the next President of NASPA. You may know Amelia the from her work as vice president for research and policy at NASPA, a position that she's held since 2015. In this role, she has selected the association's research policy and publications portfolio, providing critical thought and support to the membership. She oversees large scale projects, represents NASPA globally, is speaking engagements in the media, and leads analysis of applicable federal and state legislation and regulatory developments.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:53]: Over the past 8 years, Amelia has secured over $22,000,000 in philanthropic funding, represented NASPA through service to over 20 organizations, including the US Department of Education, and served as the chair of the governing board for the Higher Ed Equity Network and Chair of the Finance and Investment Committee for the EDUCAUSE Board of Directors. Additionally, she has led an 18 month examination of the future of student affairs, overseeing a large volunteer and staff task force and engaging in listening sessions with NASPA members. Prior to NASPA, Amelia served as Director of Research Initiatives at the Association For Institutional Research and Director of National Survey Research for the Association For Institutional Research. From 2005 to 2012, she served as education policy analyst for the Florida Legislature. Amelia has authored numerous scholarly articles and has been regularly quoted in national and trade publications. She is author of the recent book, You Are a Data Person, Strategies for Using Analytics on Campus, which has sold over 3,000 copies to date and is widely used by institutions across the country. She is also a faculty member for the Institute on ePortfolios of the American Association of Colleges and Universities. Amelia holds a BS and MBA in Business Administration from Florida A&M University and a PhD in Higher Education from Florida State University.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:21]: Beyond Amelia's credentials and organizational knowledge, the search committee and the board were most impressed by her vision for continuing to position NASPA as an indispensable organization serving the student affairs profession and higher education more broadly. Her collaborative leadership style combined with her extensive experience and genuine commitment to student success set her apart in a strong and diverse field of applicants for the position. Emilia will begin her tenure as president on July 1, 2024, at which time Kevin Kruger will become president emeritus. As we continue to move toward this next chapter in NASPA's story, we wanna thank the NASPA president search committee and especially the co chairs, Betty Simmons, retired vice president of student development enrollment management at County College of Morris and Pat Whiteley, senior vice president for student affairs and alumni engagement at the University of Miami. These volunteers gave so much of their time to ensure that the next leader of NASPA would be someone who can build on the successes of the last 12 years and position the organization to help its members face the challenges that we know lie ahead. In selecting Amelia, they have done exactly that. We would also like to extend our thanks to the team at Korn Kari for their counsel and support in this search. Our largest congratulations go out to doctor Amelia Parnell, past guest of the show, and we will be having her in the future to talk about that vision for NASPA.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:47]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:12]: Chris, thank you so much for this week's edition of NASPA World. We always appreciate you keeping us updated on what's going around in and around NASPA. And, Alejandra, we have our lightning round questions now. I've got 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:29:26]: Okay. Let's go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:27]: Alright. Question number 1. Since you are a conference keynote speaker, if you got to choose your entrance music, what would it be?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:29:33]: Well, I don't know if it's a known fact but First Gen has a playlist cause each chapter title is a song. So I'm gonna pick one of the songs off of the playlist which is Fast Car, Tracy Chapman version though.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:46]: Oh, she just performed recently.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:29:47]: Oh, so good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:47]: Love her. So good. I'm gonna sidetrack us and say where can people find your playlist?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:29:51]: It's on Spotify and in the back of the book, there's a link.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:54]: Alright. Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:29:58]: When I was 5 years old, I wanted to be Cinderella. I actually write about that in the book.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:05]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:30:08]: My most influential professional mentor was my boss at the White House for a lot of reasons and I I actually there's a whole scene in the book about the way she modeled to me what true leadership was like and really had the power to be able to either support me or not support me in a very pivotal moment at the beginning of the book. And she, to this day, is somebody who's still in my life and threw me a book party when the book came out, which meant a lot. So I would have to say her.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:38]: Number 4, your essential higher education read. I'd be remiss

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:30:41]: if I didn't say 1st gen. Come on.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:43]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:30:47]: I watched Breaking Bad again.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:48]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:30:51]: the last year. So because I actually, over the past year, have been so crazy promoting the book. I haven't listened to a lot of podcast. I'm gonna give a shout out to this one.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:00]: Thank you.

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:31:02]: So SA Voices from the Field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:04]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? I just like to

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:31:08]: thank the NASPA family for welcoming me and of course to Dina over at the First Gen Center. I've had such an incredible experience getting to know folks in this world and a lot of the folks in student affairs and 1st gen programs. And so shout out to everyone here and the work that they're doing and to you for having me. I appreciate it. Again, the

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:28]: book is First Gen, a memoir by Alejandra Campoverdi. You can pick it up in the NASPA bookstore or wherever you buy books. Now if folks would like to book you for a speaking tour on their campus or reach you otherwise, how can they find you? Well,

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:31:40]: I'm super in my DMs. So you could DM me on Instagram or send me a LinkedIn message or on my website. There's an email that you can also reach out to me there.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:50]: And what's your website?

Alejandra Campoverdi [00:31:51]: Alejandracampoverdi.com. Thank you

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:54]: so much, for sharing your voice with us today. Thank you. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at nasa dotorg or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:26]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

**Advancing DEI Values**

In an enlightening new episode of SA Voices From The Field Dr. Jill Creighton invites Shawntal Brown, an advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), to share her insights on driving institutional support for these crucial values. Shawntal emphasizes how integrating DEI into the fabric of higher education is not just beneficial but essential for creating welcoming and inclusive environments.

**The Research Journey**

Shawntal's research journey reveals a strategic pivot from focusing on staff insights to exploring university presidents' role in championing DEI. This shift underscores the importance of leadership buy-in for effective DEI initiatives

**Navigating Complex Social Landscapes**

Proactive DEI work is emerging as a priority in contemporary academia. Dr. Jill and Shawntal discuss the challenges posed by today's charged social and political climates, emphasizing the need for steadfast commitment to DEI principles.

**Legislative Impacts on DEI**

Texas Senate Bill 17's severe restrictions on diversity trainings and resources present significant hurdles. Shawntal offers a poignant analysis of the bill's consequences, exploring the complex task of reconciling legislative compliance with DEI values.

**Staying True to DEI Amidst Legal Challenges**

Transitioning DEI efforts to align with new legislation while adhering to core values is a delicate balance. Shawntal reflects on her time in the school of engineering, bringing a personal touch to her professional dedication to supporting students.

**Self-Care for DEI Professionals**

Shawntal wisely advises her peers to prioritize self-care while traversing the treacherous waters of DEI work, advocating for a strong support system amidst the current landscape.

**Professional Development and Community Building** Promising initiatives like the NASPA 2024 Mid Level Administrators Conference and the Women's Leadership Institute provide pivotal growth and networking opportunities for DEI professionals. **Resources Against Regressive Legislation** Sharing resources and staying informed are vital for navigating legislative impacts on higher education, as Shawntal passionately discusses.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, essay voices. Welcome back for our next episode. And today, I'm very excited to introduce you to Shawntal Brown. Shawntal aims to advance the values of diversity, equity, and inclusion and promote servant leadership through her research, service, and formal academic appointments. In her current appointment as senior outreach program coordinator for initiatives for campus support in the division of campus and community engagement at the University of Texas at Austin, Shawntal builds connections with students, staff, and faculty so the campus community members can experience a welcoming and inclusive campus climate.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:57]: She enjoys a research based approach to community building, including leveraging campus climate assessment findings to develop resources and strategically approach campus outreach to support equitable environments at the university. Her equity lens is also evident in her service and accolades. Shawntal is the co-president of the Texas Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education or TADAHE for short and provides TADAHE administrators with professional and personal development opportunities in alignment with the mission, envision, and equity and inclusive experience of the organization. Additionally, she received the NASPA Region 3 DEI Mosaic Award for her passion and support of diversity, equity, and inclusion through her advocacy and research. Shawntal's doctoral research focuses on university presidents and their commitments to DEI through their organizational perspective. Her work, mapping pleasure and pain of women's bodies, Southern Black feminist geographic interventions in the journal Gender, Place, and Culture. And Additionally, she has co authored with doctor Michael a Goodman in ACPA developments called It'll Be Like Biden and Harris, a Black Woman's Conundrum in Collegiate Student Government. To bridge research and practice across disciplines, Shawntal regularly presents at different conferences, including National Women's Studies Association, the Texas Association College and University Student Personnel Administrators or TCUPSA Group, and with NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:16]: Hope you enjoy our conversation. Before this episode moves forward today, I want to ensure that we clarify the timeline for the conversation. Shawntal and I had the pleasure of speaking in mid February 2024. This was prior to the layoffs happening at the University of Florida in the DEIB space. So if you don't hear us reference it or you're confused why something sounds a little different than your expectations, it's because that particular action simply had not occurred yet when this conversation was recorded. If you are a person at the University of Florida who's been impacted by the legislation and by job loss, just want to say that I'm thinking about you and hope that you're able to progress forward in a way that is meaningful and also still helps our students feel included, not just feel included, but become included in our collegiate spaces. I appreciate all of the work that you all are doing and have done. Shawntal, we are thrilled to welcome you to SA Voices.

Shawntal Brown [00:03:14]: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited for today.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:17]: And in our theme of transitions, we're going to be talking about your transitions primarily as a diversity educator and student activist all the way through to professional who's supporting students who are engaging in activism. And we always love to get to know our guests by asking you how you got to your current seat.

Shawntal Brown [00:03:34]: Yes. So I think going back, I am originally from Oklahoma City. So transferred to Austin, Texas for my master's in women's and gender studies. And so while I was a master's student, I was just trying to find my way of, like, you know, what do I wanna do as a career? What do I want to, like, focus on? And I found myself being in spaces that primarily supported minority student populations. And so first started out in a center called the Gender and Sexuality Center, supported LGBTQIA students, women students within that space, and led different opportunities like a feminist Friday, where we talked about different topics focused on, like, you know, feminist theory, talking about occurring events, things like that. Just supporting folks who are like in different organizations. And so as I was in that space, I was like, I kinda like this. This is like a really cool space to be in.

Shawntal Brown [00:04:23]: I really enjoyed just working along the different program programs that they did, events that were had. And I was like there's there's something about this that I like and so after I finish that internship, I started working at the international office at my institution at the University of Texas at Austin, and I was working with, like, different students from different, countries. So from, like, China, Germany, you name it. We were working with those student populations. And to do that event, I was considered a assistant program coordinator then. And before, I'm not formally trained in, you know, student theory, higher education, and that sends for my master's degree. And so I was like, I wonder how this could pan out as a job in the future. And so slowly but surely continue to do that work, working with different student groups, whether they're international, whether they were, like, you know, minoritized populations, campus.

Shawntal Brown [00:05:17]: And then I found myself, like, I think this is, like, the career path that I wanna go down. And so I was applying for positions that are specifically working with underrepresented students, especially women students. I wanted to, you know, continue to do that work. And after a while, I was able to become a student program coordinator in an engineering office that supported underrepresented students, which was an amazing opportunity because I, like, advise student groups, a lot of professional groups like the National Society of Black Engineers, Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers. I was able to put on programs to welcome, like, prospective students. I did a lot of recruitment work, and then also did, like, classes, taught, like, research research course, getting students it really interested in graduate school, especially underrepresented students because I was just like, you in this space are so important to have as a potential, like, faculty member, as a mentor for, like, future students that are coming behind you. And so I was really passionate about doing that work. But really in that role is doing, like, a little bit of everything, becoming like a Swiss army knife, if you will, in, the space.

Shawntal Brown [00:06:18]: So really getting to know different skills that I was building and helping folks academically, helping folks professionally, you know, all those different realms for those student groups. And so after a while, I was like, this has been a really great opportunity just to really get to know these students, seeing them grow in their different ways. And so that was, like, my first full time position to really see, like, this is a really great opportunity to work with these students. And so now my current role as a senior outreach program coordinator, I work in a division of the of campus and community engagement. It's more focused on the broader campus community as supporting students, staff, and faculty to make sure they have a welcoming and accessible, like, experience at the institution. But really, my pathway kind of just helping support underrepresented groups has been really just like the foundation of where I found myself at the institution and just really enjoy the work that I do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:09]: And I'll give you a shout out for your work for our listeners. As we mentioned in the bio, Shawntal actually received a NASPA award region 3 for, the DEI Mosaic award supporting diversity, equity, and inclusion. So can you tell us about what work led to that recognition?

Shawntal Brown [00:07:24]: Yeah. Oh, goodness. I would just also wanna shout out the folks who willingly nominated me. I was like, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. The it was really like a lot of the work that I have done has really been focused on, just supporting the professionals in my role with the Techs Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education. A mouthful I know, but we call it TADAA here, was really the opportunity for me to really branch out and network with other DEI professionals rather in the state of Texas.

Shawntal Brown [00:07:51]: And so that was kind of, like, one of the many things that folks saw me doing. I'm currently the co president for that. And so that has kind of, like, led to to that recementing my foundation within DEI. I think just also the support of, underrepresented students, like I've mentioned, has really just been, like, the cracks that people can see that connection building that I really love to just put forth with people. And let me see. I think I'm trying to remember one more. I feel like I'm forgetting one more, but I think folks see the overall research. And I'm also doing my my doctorate part time, doing my research focusing on diversity, equity, inclusion.

Shawntal Brown [00:08:28]: And I think people see that that's something that's really just a core value to my, like, higher ed professional life profile. And so I think the folks who nominated me really saw and let that shine through when they wrote those nominations. So I'm really appreciative for them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:44]: And the work that you were doing for that recognition, also extremely important and kind of unique to tie into higher education. Can you talk a little bit about how you found your research topic? Because I know that is a major question for almost every doctoral student on the planet. Everyone's either on this very big mind space of wanting to study everything, maybe a little bit lost on not knowing what to study.

Shawntal Brown [00:09:06]: Yeah. That's a great question. I think I really started out with, like, the crux of, like, I'm really interested in DEI in my research, but where do I go here? And initially, I was trying to focus more on, like, the staff perspective of, like, flipping it. Like, what could staff do to make DEI more cemented in their goals and their, like, you know, opportunities and things like that. But then I was, like, really sitting with it's bigger than this because my personal opinion in thinking about the institution, I feel like DEI should be really just linked up into, like it should be fully embedded into the infrastructure of the institution. So I was, like, thinking, how can that happen? What does that look like? And read through, like, the literature that I have gone through at this point. They talked about chief diversity officers as, like, really important people to have in these roles, really important to have in these spaces to really amplify that voice. But then in the case of my research specifically, I was like, you know what? Let's shift it.

Shawntal Brown [00:10:00]: Like, what does it mean to have a university president who really supports this? And so that's kind of the perspective I'm taking up. Like, what does it mean for your leadership up above to support the values of diversity and inclusion, whether it be in their state of union addresses and strategic plans. Like what does that mean for them to do this work? And so it was something that it took me a while to get there. I think I kind of, like, was taking the different angles. I think of it as like a diamond. I was like, I'm on this face of the diamond, but I I need to just go over to this face to this face. And now I'm like, oh, I kind of hit where I wanna be. And it's really interesting.

Shawntal Brown [00:10:34]: I might nerd out a little bit on researching because I'm really excited about it to really look at one specific, president that is at the University of Texas at Boston who had a really amazing legacy that I've heard so far, who was William c Powers, who just really did a lot of great work and really amplified diversity, equity, inclusion here. And so I'm kind of curious, how did he do this work? How did he get here? And so I'm very excited to start get to the process of, like, interviewing, chatting with folks to kinda hear about the experiences that people may have had with him. So I'm I'm really excited just to see what does this mean for other future university presidents? What does it mean for folks who are, like, aspiring for this role who also love diversity, equity, inclusion, or value diversity, equity, inclusion too? So I'm really excited for this.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:15]: I think that's really important work to look at that narrative perspective on what it actually looks like in practice. I know that our NASPA colleagues put out a publication not too long ago about campus statements in response to acts of racial aggression or ethnic aggression or marginalized identity based aggression and what they looked like, some of their impact and things like that that came out, I wanna say, maybe couple of years ago. It was post the murder of George Floyd, but it was, I think, still during the pandemic when that came out. So that maybe kind of losing a little steam in terms of age as we all know research does, but I appreciate that I think what you're doing is carrying that forward and looking a little bit deeper at one individual perspective. But I'm wondering as a professional in the DEI realm, what you're seeing in terms of transitioning the work that you're doing because I feel like for a long time, the field was in reactive mode because there was so much happening. And now maybe we're swinging back to being more proactive. What do you see?

Shawntal Brown [00:12:13]: No. I think that's really important now, especially with, like, the social political climate happening, you know, states like Texas, very conservative states with the anti DEI legislature that's going on. And so I think it's an opportunity for professionals who are trying to, 1, remain in compliance with, like, you know, the new law. But then, 2, for folks who are, like, needing to really resubmit and reaffirm the work that they're doing. And so it's definitely, like, a difficult balance right now because to think more broadly about what's going on, folks of the AI professionals or, you know, the new spaces that folks are in trying to still support the new type of work that we're doing is a really tough place. It's definitely like a lot of losses happened, but I think it's more important now than ever to learn how to be proactive in the spaces, especially That's a generous word. Yeah. It's a unique time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:11]: That's a generous word.

Shawntal Brown [00:13:13]: Yeah. It's a unique time. And so I think it I think there is, like, a future of what we can do to continue to support a version of diversity work and what it can be. But I think it's definitely like a we're kinda rolling with the punches. And I think the proactive piece will definitely it still needs to be there, but I think it'll just have to be a different way of shaping it for it to be still present in our values in of itself, if that makes sense.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:42]: So the unique thing always about the US is that depending on which state you're in, the rules shift drastically. We also have quite a few national members who are not within the United States. So can you please elucidate a little bit what's going on in Texas with the law?

Shawntal Brown [00:13:56]: Yes. No. That's important to just kind of get out of my US centric perspective. So in Texas specifically, there was a bill passed called 7 senate bill 17. It's more colloquially described as, like, the anti DEI bill. And so with this, the bill asked for many different things to be discontinued, such as, like, diversity trainings, opportunities to have specific affinity groups, ally trainings, different types of statements made by individuals. So, like, diversity statements are no longer able to be offered by faculty who are looking into precisions at their institutions. But many all of it did really say that is trying to aim towards, like, a color blind, gender neutral approach to things that happens at the institution, which is very difficult because a lot of the current DEI offices in Texas specifically have to go through undergo a lot of changes.

Shawntal Brown [00:14:49]: And some of these changes resulted a lot of them were resolved. And then an office that, you know, had to come back with something that was gonna abide by the current law of senate bill 17. And so it's definitely been a lot of upheaval just like not specifically I would say upheaval watching it as a professional at my institution, but also looking at the broader, like, Texas institutions and seeing how the different changes are happening. And that's definitely been, like, a really tough time overall just kind of navigating the the spaces and how everyone's kind of doing things a little bit differently. So it's been tough in that front.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:25]: I think Texas, Utah, and Florida are all kind of in the same space right now. How are you transitioning your work on a day to day basis from what maybe you would have done last year or things like trainings or just general inclusion in your campus community? And how do you work towards that now given it feels like it's a little bit antithesis to the new law?

Shawntal Brown [00:15:50]: Yeah. I think I'll I'll highlight Tadee because I think it is a moment where us as an organization, we really wanna provide resources to staff in those spaces and really help them kind of understand the new law and also building community with each other. Because since we Texas is so big, so spread out, there's so many institutions here. And so it's really, like, important to have, like, the community building, like, resource offering to folks because, like I mentioned, like, everyone's doing things a little bit differently, understanding the the law a little bit differently. And so that makes it really tough. I can empathize and, like, relate to, like, the feeling of, like, isolation in some ways of, oh my goodness. We're this little hub here, and we're doing this in this way. And then watching, like, a little hub there, and they're doing it that way.

Shawntal Brown [00:16:40]: And so I think I am fortunate to be in a role with Tati just to kind of be a support system in this time and just really try to bring together the conversations with individuals. Like, we're having our annual summit that's coming up in the summertime, and so we're really trying to bring people, like, let's chat about this. Let's understand it. How can we work together in this time? How can we support each other in this time? And so that's our main push right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:04]: And what are you seeing that's working?

Shawntal Brown [00:17:06]: I feel like, you know, in the in the broader sense, I think the resource sharing has been more, this is our key. We need to chat about this. We need to talk about these conversations. So resource sharing has been very helpful. Just to understand what's happening at other campuses because we're this is still new. We're about, what, a month in to this new legislature. So it's kind of like, oh, yeah. We need to chat with each other.

Shawntal Brown [00:17:27]: We need to talk to each other. And so definitely, like, receiving articles, keeping up with the news, reading about what's changing, what's happening across the country, across the state, it's been really important during this time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:38]: And anyone in particular who's been implementing practice differently now in terms of being able to do the work and stay in alignment with what the legislature expects?

Shawntal Brown [00:17:48]: Yeah. I think that's a really great question. And I think a lot of the work that we used to do within our spaces cannot continue. And that's really been tough for us as higher ed professionals to learn the restrictions and the confines that we have to navigate with this new law. And so it really hurts because there's great losses that hasn't been acknowledged enough. I would say just to know that there are centers that are closed that used to support LGBTQ students. There are positions that are being let go of at different institutions. And so there's a lot of grieving that is happening right now amid these different anti DEI laws.

Shawntal Brown [00:18:31]: And so it makes the work that we try to do within the confines of this law much more difficult because we are trying to make sure that we are in compliance to new law. So there's a lot of barriers to us now. And so it does impede a lot of the progress that was made in prior years that we're trying to, you know, we were trying to advance towards equity, and now we can't. And so it's definitely very much antithetical to the work that was previously done, and it's making it more difficult for higher ed professionals to continue to do this work. And so, yeah, that's been really tough and really difficult to just sit with currently.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:09]: Yeah. Let's talk about your students as well or the students in the state of Texas because, you know, we we think about the impact to the profession. We think about, you know, the impact to how our faculty colleagues are also responding. But at the end of the day, the number one population impacted is probably the students who will either no longer be receiving this type of education or who maybe relied on services or communities, that are no longer either allowed or at least recognizable under this new law. So how is that playing out?

Shawntal Brown [00:19:44]: I think in the sense of this law, the students have really stepped up in some ways. And I know that's kind of a tricky thing because I know my personal, like, soap boxes that students came to the institution to learn and not have to do so much advocacy work. And so I hold a bit of tension with it in some ways. But I also say that they have a lot of voice in what they can do and make institutional leaders know, like, this is a problem. We're missing this. We're hurting. We want to make sure that you understand this loud and clear. And I think, like, you know, throughout social media, throughout, like, my personal experience of, like, what I'm seeing broadly is, like, I think that student voice is really important right now.

Shawntal Brown [00:20:24]: It's critical right now, and it's so needed because they are being heard. They are, you know, doing their own organizing. And there are groups that are even outside of the institution that are doing their organizing that, you know, are putting their own resources together to really band with each other, which is really important too. And so I really admire and appreciate what they're doing because it's really gonna be something that's, 1, gonna be important in when we look back at this time to see the work that they've done and acknowledge that work. But then, 2, it's gonna be something that we may need to think about in the future sense too of, like, you know, how can we make sure that students, in a broader sense, kind of get information that's gonna be helpful for them prior to, like, the bills coming up. Maybe more of a, how can we think about legislative, like, education and advocacy for our students? Like, how can that be built into our to our programming and our systems, like, in the future too? So it's kind of like a thought that I hadn't missed about this kind of reflecting the experiences.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:20]: And you were a student activist before becoming a professional in the DEI space. How has your take on the work changed from being a student in the space to being a professional who's leading others in the space?

Shawntal Brown [00:21:32]: I think in my experience, I guess, like for context, I went to the University of Oklahoma for my alma mater. And so there is a unfortunately, a racist incident that happened at the institution that is known as the Sigma Alpha Epsilon, incident. Institution that is known as the Sigma Alpha Epsilon, incident or SAE. It had a lot of, like, press CNN, a lot of, like, you know, large global and local news kind of took over it. And, essentially, it really alienated black students on campus because the fraternity didn't want black men to be part of their organization. And so it was something where in that student activist perspective, I was like, my voice, I feel like I need to share something. Like, my voice is needed in this conversation, and I wanna be able to contribute. And so to really do a lot of work of, like, making your voice known at that time was really important and also engaging in different conversations that people were having.

Shawntal Brown [00:22:24]: So whether it was me on social media talking about, you know, this is why this isn't, you know, this is the article, current events. This is what I think about it. We need to kind of think about how we can incorporate this at the institution is one way I kinda contribute my voice in the conversation. And also showing up to, like, meetings with senior leadership as well as a way to kind of put the face and name, help them understand how we can better improve the experiences for black students specifically at the campus, but also like black faculty to consider them and black staff to consider them. And I think that was really important during that time in addition to there's already a, like, a student activist group called O You and Her that I always tell folks, like, I feel like I was at the 2nd wave of that organization. And the 1st wave of folks were really doing the work, and the 2nd wave was kind of thinking more of, like, how can we make this work be expansive than just this time frame that we're having now. And so to think about all those different experience as a student activist that I've had and coming into this role as, like, being a full time professional, it was interesting to think about when 2020 did happen and then the murder of George Floyd did occur, that there was a lot of student voice that was happening when I was in my role in the the school of engineering. And I was like, oh, when I was in my role in the the school of engineering. And I was like, oh my goodness. This is very reminiscent. This feels familiar. And it was a moment for me to kind of think about, like, where do I step in and where do I step back? Because I know as a professional, there's, like, all the different layers of, like, you know, you cannot represent, like, the institution. You can't represent your department, but how else can you support these students? And so really to be like the the listening ear or the person who's signing, like the list of demands that they had to kind of like cosign with them. If I was able to do that with them, then that was something that I was, like, I feel good about supporting you in this way or folks that, like, wanting to talk about advice about navigating the space or what made sense or who to talk to.

Shawntal Brown [00:24:13]: I think that's kind of how it shifted in a way of from the student perspective, I felt more, I guess, I don't wanna say without restriction, but I guess, like, there's a freeness around, like, you know, how I can, like, express my voice and how I can express my opinion and thoughts and things of that way. But as a staff member, I had to kinda reflect on my sense of, like, power and privilege and kind of, like, know when I can, like, step up in that space and, like, help support or need to step back and let the students kind of lead that and let me be in the background. And so I think that perspective overall has really kind of helped better understand or I guess better empathize really when students do use their voice or, you know, need support in using their voice and kinda think about how the greater picture of, like, what can change at an institution really look like overall with those two perspectives in mind?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:00]: That is a really important lesson that I think a lot of us in campus based higher education need to relearn often, which is in student affairs, we are more often than not the primary advocate and voice for student needs within a university's administration. And that voice has a lot of power, but also it can be marginalized at an institution in a lot of cases. And so often I I think about how much power our students really do have compared to staff, and it is a very different balance. And deciding to sign on to a position statement with students is an interesting balance of choice that we all have to make when presented with that choice. Can you talk a little bit about how you make that choice, to determine whether you're signing on to something that your students are advocating for versus not?

Shawntal Brown [00:25:50]: I think that's a delicate balance. And truthfully, I think I'm still learning. I think in that space of thinking about when I was in engineering, I was appreciative that other staff members were willing to do that same thing for students. And so I felt that since the community from trusted folks who were, like, signing on to their to their positionality statements and speaking up in that way. And I think it was more of a communal thing of, like, you know, yes, we agree with you. We see you. We see the work that you're doing. I think in in now, I think in some ways, I still do that.

Shawntal Brown [00:26:22]: But sometimes I'm used like a personal email, for example, as a way to still kind of do that work because I feel, you know, there is I think I've hear this so many times, like, there's power in numbers and it's really important. And so if I can still provide that support and maybe it's more of a perfect like a personal like, I personally feel like this is something critical that the institution needs to listen to. I will do that work because I want to see the institution or whatever the department, the office change for the better. And once it changes for the better, it changes for everyone. And it's a it's a win for everyone, I feel. And so I think that's like the subtle way I have done it. There's probably other ways that folks probably have thought through it, but I think that's the my catch for all that balancing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:07]: Especially if you're a public employee choosing to use a personal email is a big thing. Right? So I think everyone would be smart to check with their local regulations on what that means for public records and whole bunch of other things. But, yeah, it's it's definitely an interesting balance. And then at some point in your career as you grow, that letter's being sent to you as opposed to you being asked to sign on to it. And then we're in a position to decide how we engage in dialogue and actions and how we determine what's actionable and not actionable. What's usually, everything is quite reasonable, but what is actionable is a different question given budget and time and, human resources and all those things. I absolutely have so much respect for what's going on for DEI professionals. And as like I said, in Texas, Utah, Florida, you all are on the forefront of what could be a policy trend.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:01]: And then on the other side, you know, we've got states that are instituting protective measures for these efforts instead. Do you have any advice for DEI professionals who are out there navigating these waters on a daily?

Shawntal Brown [00:28:14]: I guess one thing is please take care of yourself during this time because it's hard. It has definitely been hard. I think that that has been the biggest thing that I feel like I'm still in some ways learning of, like, needing to step away for a moment as much as I'm able to and kind of step back. Because at the end of the day, it's like it's a very large thing that's happening, like, across the United States, across specific states. And I think if you have the support to lean on someone else or to tap in someone else to kind of be there for you as you kind of, like, take that moment to yourself is really important. I think it's a tricky thing, but I think that's something that I wish I kinda had that person, like, in the midst of things changing or learning about the legislation. I kinda wish I had a tap and being like, hey, Shawntal, you need to go sit down for a moment. You need to rest for a moment.

Shawntal Brown [00:29:04]: And that has been something that I feel like that is at the core now. For me, it's just kind of slowing down, taking the step away, reading a book, meditating, whatever I need to to kind of repour my cup for myself and to kind of still understand the the current landscape that we're in.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:20]: It's such simple and beautiful advice, but so hard to actually do. The delivery of that is really challenging, I think, in the hustle and bustle of our present day.

Shawntal Brown [00:29:30]: Yes. But it's a good like a reminder. So check-in, it's kind of like check-in like, Hey, how are you doing? And then really kind of assess like, what makes sense for you to like, continue in the day.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:41]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:47]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and a lot of things happening. Though we're past the NASPA annual conference, there's a number of other professional development opportunities that are coming up. One such event is the 2024 NASPA Mid Level Administrators Conference. The early registration for this conference closes on Friday, March 29th. Join us in Indianapolis, Indiana for a transformative professional development experience tailored for mid level student affairs professionals like you. Discover cutting edge strategies for organizational leadership, master the art of managing from the middle, and unlock your full potential in influencing change. Connect with peers, exchange insights, and build a robust network of allies to support your growth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:32]: Don't miss out on this opportunity to level up your skills and take your career to new heights. Register now and embark on a journey of growth, learning, and connection at mlac 2024. The conference itself runs from June 13th to June 15th in Indianapolis, Indiana. If you want more information, go to the NASPA website and find out more. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is running from December 10th through 13th in San Diego, California. ACUI, Association of College Unions International, and NASPA are partnering to bring you an experience focused on women leaders in higher education. This institute offers strategies for women who plan to lead with lasting impact. ACUI and NASPA are seeking programs that will inspire participants to become an inspirational and effective leader.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:23]: The program is designed by women for women. If you have a program that you would like to submit, submit it on the NASPA website by April 26th to be considered for this. Some of the topics that the Leadership Institute looks to cover include supervision and performance management, strategic planning, financial well-being, upskill, reskill the bridge to the future, delegating and giving away, picking up new skills and putting things down among others. Again, the deadline to submit your program is April 26, and I encourage you to go to the NASPA website to find out more. Volume 25 of the Journal of College and Character is out. And as a NASPA member, you have access to the Journal of College and Character among a number of other great journals that will help you in your own professional development. This peer reviewed publication has a number of amazing articles that are in it. And in this issue, there are a ton of peer reviewed articles as well as some specific focus areas on student engagement with spiritual and secular world views, diversity and social justice and interfaith cooperation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:36]: I highly encourage you to check out the Journal of College and Character for yourself. If you've never checked out the journals, go to the NASPA website, highlight publications, and go down to the Journal of College and Character. You'll also see the other 3 journals that are available for NASPA members, the Journal of First Generation Student Success, the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, and the Journal of Women short course that is happening between March 25th April 26th on basic counseling skills. This short course is a primer on the fundamental critical topic of mental health and how to support students on your campus and beyond tailored for non clinical professionals. The program will focus on hands on skills needed for empathetic listening and effective referral making based on NASBA's book, Basic Counseling Skills for Higher Education Professionals, topics include anxiety and depression, sexual assault and violence, well-being and burnout, current trends in student mental health, making referrals, student support, and more. You can register for this short course on the NASPO website. This course is set up as 5 60 minute live sessions that'll be held every Wednesday at 1 PM EST. They're scheduled for March 27th, April 3rd, April 10th, April 17th, and April 24th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:02]: Again, go to the NASPA website and learn more. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents, association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:25]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:30]: Chris, we really appreciate you always updating us on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Shawntal, that means we have made it to our lightning round of our show. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Feeling ready?

Shawntal Brown [00:35:44]: I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:45]: Alright. Let's roll. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Shawntal Brown [00:35:50]: Because I'm gonna say Texas Hold. I'm gonna be Beyonce.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:52]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Shawntal Brown [00:35:56]: An astronaut.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:56]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Shawntal Brown [00:35:59]: Oh my goodness. I would say doctor Sophia Morin at the University of Oklahoma.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:05]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Shawntal Brown [00:36:08]: Not necessarily within student affairs, but I would say Set Boundaries, Find Peace by Nedra Glover Tawab.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:15]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Shawntal Brown [00:36:18]: Oh, goodness. I watch a lot of true crime, so that's probably what was something I was watching during that time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:24]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Shawntal Brown [00:36:28]: Oh, that is You Need to Hear This by Metro Global Chihuahua. Wonderful, wonderful podcast.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:33]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Shawntal Brown [00:36:37]: Oh, goodness. I like to thank my husband, Cody. He's always there listening to me, listening ear. I'll shout it out to my family in Oklahoma and all the folks that I have made friends with and and who have supported me in the state of Texas. There's a lot of people, but I hope they all know who they are.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: Well, it's been wonderful to learn from you today, Shawntal, and to hear your perspective on the evolution of DEI work in these states that are becoming more challenging to deliver that work in on a daily. If anyone would like to find community with you after the show, how can they reach you?

Shawntal Brown [00:37:09]: Yes. I'm really active on Twitter. It is @ShawntalBrown, capital s, capital b. You can find me there. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And then I also have a Instagram, Shawntal_ or Shawntal_brown_22. So happy to connect with folks on all those platforms.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:27]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Shawntal Brown [00:37:29]: Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:14]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr.Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

The annual NASPA conference, a gathering of student affairs professionals, is a platform for networking, learning, and sharing experiences. In a recent episode of the "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" podcast, host Dr. Jill Creighton provides insight into the themes and focus areas of the conference, as well as the importance of engaging in discussions related to navigating uncertainty, care amidst chaos, and inclusion and belonging within the field of student affairs.

Opportunities in Uncertainty:

The theme of "navigating the opportunities of uncertainty" acknowledges the ever-evolving landscape of higher education. Student affairs professionals often grapple with constant changes, whether it be in policies, technology, or the needs of the student population. Embracing uncertainty can lead to growth, innovation, and adaptability within the field. As Dr. Creighton points out, this theme encourages professionals to find the silver lining in times of ambiguity, recognizing that within uncertainty lies the potential for transformation and positive change.

Care in Chaos:

The second focus area, "care in chaos," resonates deeply with those working in student affairs, especially during turbulent times. Practicing self-care and extending empathy towards students and colleagues is pivotal in maintaining a healthy and supportive work environment. The theme highlights the significance of prioritizing mental health, fostering resilience, and promoting a culture of care within the student affairs community. Dr. Creighton's emphasis on nurturing individuals amidst chaos underscores the importance of emotional well-being while navigating the complexities of the profession.

Justice, Equity, Diversity, Inclusion, and Belonging:

The conference's third focus area amplifies the ongoing dialogue surrounding justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging (JEDIB). Creating inclusive environments where all individuals feel valued and represented is essential in student affairs. Dr. Creighton underscores the importance of actively engaging in conversations about systemic injustices, promoting diversity, and advocating for equity within the field. The theme serves as a reminder of the continuous work required to dismantle barriers and foster environments of genuine belonging for all members of the academic community.

Recognition and Appreciation:

In addition to discussing the conference themes, Dr. Creighton takes a moment to acknowledge the tremendous contributions of her co-host, Dr. Chris Lewis, who has been awarded the Pillar of the Profession award from NASPA. This recognition not only celebrates Dr. Lewis's leadership and dedication but also underscores the spirit of collaboration and mentorship within the student affairs community. It serves as a reminder of the impact that individuals can make on the profession and the importance of honoring their influence and achievements.

Conclusion and Call to Action:

The podcast episode concludes with an invitation for attendees to engage with the "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" team during the conference, expressing interest in sharing their voices on the aforementioned focus areas. Dr. Creighton encourages listeners to connect with the show through feedback, topic suggestions, and spreading the word to colleagues. This call to action emphasizes the power of collective participation and dialogue, highlighting the significance of community engagement and knowledge-sharing within the student affairs profession.

In summary, the NASPA conference provides an invaluable platform for professionals to delve into critical topics, engage in meaningful discourse, and draw inspiration from each other's experiences. The podcast episode not only sheds light on the conference's themes but also serves as a catalyst for ongoing conversations and collaborative efforts within the vibrant tapestry of student affairs.

The "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" podcast exemplifies the commitment to amplifying diverse perspectives and fostering a sense of community within the profession, ultimately contributing to the continuous advancement of student affairs.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, essay voices. Dropping in with a quick note to let you know that we will not be releasing a regular episode this week. It is the annual conference and Chris and I are both making our way to Seattle, Washington where we hope to engage with so many of you about the profession, about your thoughts, and about where we are right now. This year's conference has 3 focus areas on which all of the programming submissions were centered. The first is navigating the opportunities of uncertainty.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: The second is care in chaos. And the third is justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging. Like in years past, Chris and I will be moving about the conference with our portable audio recorders asking you to contribute your voice to this show on those three topic areas. So if you happen to come across one of us, please feel free to approach us and let us know that you would love to share your voice. We would love to feature you. After we've done that, you'll hear from us following the conference with an episode featuring all of your stories. I also wanna take a moment to give a mega huge shout out to Dr. Chris Lewis. He is receiving the Pillar of the Profession award this year from NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:29]: And I just wanna say a personal thank you to Chris for his partnership in creating this podcast and for all of his leadership within the profession. Many of you may not know that Chris actually founded the Student Affairs Partnering with Academic Affairs Knowledge Community, or I think it's SAPA for short. So if that's an area of interest for you, that's also a great area for you to connect with us on. So we hope to see so many of you in Seattle. Have a very safe journey and we will be back with regular episodes next week. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:15]: If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5-star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:53]: Catch you next time.

Transitioning Toward Inclusivity and Excellence in Student Affairs

Student affairs professionals are essential to the fabric of higher education, guiding students through their transformational college journey while grappling with their own career advances. Dr. Anna Gonzalez, NASPA's incoming board chair, brings her extensive experience in higher education to the forefront in a recent episode of the Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast. As a first-generation college student and Filipino immigrant, she not only shares the lessons of her personal history but also sets the stage for the future of student affairs.

Embracing Identity and Leading with Inclusion

A journey marked by immigration at a young age, the pursuit of education, and ultimately, a leadership role in NASPA, Dr. Gonzalez's story is one of overcoming barriers and bringing true diversity to student affairs. Her advocacy for first-generation students, her stride in higher education policy, and her commitment to fostering diversity enrich the conversation around transitions within the student affairs profession.

Pioneering Change Amidst Global Challenges

In these times of global connectivity and unforeseen challenges, such as the COVID-19 pandemic, Dr. Gonzalez's experience transitioning to a significant role at WashU and her decision to accept the position as NASPA chair are testaments to adaptability and resilience. The interview, spanning two continents, showcases the transformative power of leaders who embrace change and prioritize the well-being of their colleagues and students.

Fostering Well-Being and Job Satisfaction in Student Affairs

The podcast delves into the crucial role of mid-level professionals in student affairs and the specific, intentional support they require. Dr. Creighton and Dr. Gonzalez emphasize the importance of strong supervision and staff recognition, addressing job satisfaction, workforce diversity, and benefits to cultivate healthy work-life balance. The ongoing dialogue underscores the necessity of redefining expectations for salaried employees in higher education and promoting a culture that appreciates the indispensable contributions of student affairs professionals.

The Path Forward: Advocacy and Policy in Higher Education

The episode not only celebrates the trajectory of Dr. Gonzalez but also presents crucial touchpoints for the future of student affairs, including advocacy in higher education policy. It illuminates the structural changes needed to recognize the value of student affairs and its impact on students and the civic health of society at large. Dr. Gonzalez's presidency promises to bring these concerns to the forefront, ensuring that higher education remains a pillar of opportunity and empowerment for all students.

Conclusion: A Call to Action for Student Affairs Professionals

Dr. Anna Gonzalez's reflections offer a beacon of inspiration and a call to action for student affairs professionals to advocate for change, recognize their value, and create inclusive environments for learning and growth. Her leadership in NASPA champions these principles, urging educators and policymakers alike to consider the significant influence they have in shaping the future of higher education.

Listening to the SA Voices from the Field podcast offers an enriching perspective on the multifaceted roles of student affairs professionals. To capture the full essence of Dr. Gonzalez's insights and guidance, tune in to the podcast and join in the conversation around student affairs transformation.  

 

TRANSCRIPTS

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to essay voices from the field where today we are thrilled to welcome NASPA's incoming board chair, doctor Ana Gonzalez. Doctor Gonzalez leads successful student affairs operations with a particular commitment to fostering diversity and inclusion in all aspects of student life. With 30 years of experience in higher education, she previously held positions at the University of California Irvine, the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, and at Lewis and Clark College where she was a founding faculty member and program director for the master's program in student affairs administration in the Graduate School of Counseling and Education. Doctor Gonzalez most recently came from Harvey Mudd College, an institution within the Claremont Colleges consortium where she served as the vice president for student affairs as well as the program director and faculty member at the Claremont Graduate University. Her research interests are focused on first generation students, immigrant students, equity and diversity, higher education policy and governance, student affairs administration, and higher education finance.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: A 1st generation college student who immigrated to the US at the age of 10, doctor G graduated from Loyola Marymount University with a bachelor's degree in international business. She earned her master's in doctoral degrees, both in education, from Claremont Graduate University. Anna, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:40]: Hi. How are you doing, Jill?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:42]: I'm so glad to be speaking with you. We are spread wide apart on the globe today with you calling in from Hawaii, and I am currently sitting in Paris, France. So we appreciate the accommodation of the time zone action.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:01:54]: This is fantastic. This is how our world is now, actually. We are global at all kinds of time zones, so it's fantastic.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: And I think fairly representative of how NASPA's growing too anyway.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:02:06]: I definitely believe so. I think so. We'll definitely see it at the conference too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:09]: Well, we've made a tradition out of interviewing the incoming NASPA board chair since Chris and I started collaborating on the show. So I believe you are the 5th board chair that we've had the pleasure of having on the show to talk about your transition, but this is the 1st time that our season has been themed to transitions while the board chair transition was happening. So we're we're right on point today.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:02:33]: That's great. And I love the theme. I think that's perfect in terms of my life and my career, so I love it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:39]: We've had probably the most outpouring of support for this particular theme. It's the 1st time we're ever doing a double season on the theme because so many people relate to the stories of transition that we've been sharing. And so I'm hoping yours will also be one that people can relate to today. We always like to start kind of with a big open question, though, which is, how did you get to your current seat? And that could be either as board chair or at WashU or both and or anywhere else in between.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:03:06]: Well, I'll talk a little bit. I think about the WashU transition, and then I'll actually go into my job I mean, my NASPA chairmanship. The WASHI transition was something that happened. I was not looking for a change. I was at Harvey Mudd, small college, university, about 900 students in Southern California where I'm from, and I graduated from the Claremont Colleges. And so I thought I would stay there forever. The pandemic happened, which was a big transition for all of us globally, and I was, one of the people in charge of transitioning through the pandemic and afterwards. And I think that really gave me pause and thought of as the as I learned about the position at WashU, am I ready to go back to an in person with in a small school, which I loved, or am I ready to think about a bigger challenge in terms of the number of students in the middle of the country where there were so many things happening where the issue of my vote would matter.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:04:08]: My my vote would matter in California, but I think my vote would matter more in the middle of the country at a place like Missouri. And I decided that I was ready for another transition. I survived. At times, I even weirdly thrived during the pandemic, and so I thought I had one more big oomph to give back to the higher education community as well as my own passions for being engaged in communities outside of higher ed, some were different, and so I decided to take the plunge and transition to WashU. My transition to NASH was so fascinating. I've been into organization active since, I think, 1994 when I was a new professional. Never thought I would be the NASPA chair. A lot of people say that.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:04:51]: I never thought that. I never thought that's gonna be me, in large part because the people who I saw who were chairs didn't look like me. I think they were almost all male at that time and white. And so that just was this didn't seem like a place for me. I also worked at a cross cultural center. So I was in multicultural affairs. Loved, loved, loved it and, again, never saw people like me in those roles. And then people like Lori White, Doris Ching, and others started taking on this role of leading our wonderful organization.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:23]: And that's when I thought, oh, it can happen. It can happen to someone with similar experiences like me. And over time, I decided to, I was nominated for different, leadership roles at NASPA. I also volunteered for others and eventually transitioned to this role.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:39]: Would you mind sharing some of your identities since this is an audio only podcast? And you mentioned not being able to see yourself represented, it'd be great if you'd be willing to share who you are in that space.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:05:49]: Oh, thanks so much, Jill. Yes. I'm born in the Philippines, so Filipino by birth. I always tell people culturally, my family, just the way we grew up, was so much connected with both Filipino, East Asian, and actually Chicano identities, being where I was in Southern she, her. Grew up as 1st gen limited income and went through college, really. 1st gen limited income through all that went to a significant part. And then I immigrated, so an immigrant to the United States as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:30]: That's a lot of transitions. How have your transitions of identity being in your country of birth for a little while and then coming to the United States at kind of a younger age, how has that experience and that transition impacted your worldview on higher education?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:06:46]: I first came to the United States, I told people and, oh, actually, we were at that time, I guess, we were undocumented too and didn't really have an understanding of that. Right? So as a child coming to United States, they didn't wanna tell people why we were coming. Right? That was a whole danger to that. So there had to be lots of secrecy. And so we literally were told we're just gonna go on this trip or a vacation to see the rest of our family again and be reunited with my parents. And so we went on a plane, came as immigrants, as young children, 10 and 6, my brother and I, and didn't really know. We were made to feel safe by our immediate family. We all lived together, my uncles and aunts.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:07:23]: I think it was 17 people in a 3 bedroom house for a while even when we first came. Yeah.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:29]: That's crowded.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:07:30]: It was kinda crowded, but, you know, it was kind of a big summer party. Right? But, yes, it was crowded. I think the adults probably felt it more than the children. And so it was wonderful to grow up with cousins and my grandmother, in particular, who really took care of us, and she made such a significant impact in my life. And so went through that, and I remember not knowing. But I remember my aunts and, like, would always say, don't tell people about how you came here. Like, you just came, and we never talked about paper or being legal. It was when I first wanted to work that they said you can't get a job when I was in in my teens.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:08:02]: Other people could start working, and they couldn't get a permit. And I remember oh my gosh. And then there was the amnesty that both Republicans and Democrats came together back in the day in 19 eighties, and they actually passed an amnesty for people like me who were in the country for a significant period of time, who were able to get to that whole transition of all of a sudden ruining the shadows to, I have my paper. And what did that green that that green card mean was hugely significant and transformative for my family, but we were doing the same things. We were obeying the laws. We were working. Everyone was working. Right? Paying taxes, actually.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:08:38]: Right? Some of them were working in offices. And then all of a sudden, you get this green card and you get this sense of relief. But, really, I thought that was just the weirdest thing. At at 15 and 16, I remember thinking, this is weird, that that somehow that 1 piece of paper by 1 act would change our whole life when we were living and doing the same things. I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:58]: think that's such an important story within student affairs because we talk so much about supporting our students through their journey for documentation or journey for, you know, financial aid that those stories are also amongst us in the profession.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:09:19]: Yeah. And I didn't really know how to talk about it. I actually learned a lot from students and staff who I work with who are undocumented and or who are DACA, and they're so brave. And I remember that they talk about it. They advocate for rights, and I just honor that. I honor their experiences. It it's similar to mine, but I didn't know how to voice it or talk about it until I listened to their stories.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:43]: Did you move towards citizenship after your green card?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:09:45]: Yes. That took a while because I actually wasn't sure. So that one, my family let us make the choice, which I love my dad and my mom, and I I love my family for allowing us as children. Right? We were still under 18 to make that choice for ourselves. But so I didn't become a citizen until after I could vote until, gosh, I was already a full time staff member. I really had to think about it and what that would mean for me. And finally, it was about voting, and I wanted to vote. It was important, and it was actually at a time when a lot of propositions in California were trying to take away rights, like affirmative action, like services to undocumented peoples, and even really immigrants in California that was happening.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:10:25]: And so I thought, you know what? I need to become a citizen so I can vote.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:29]: Tell us about that transition from being a green cardholder to being able to have that right to vote.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:10:34]: Oh my gosh. You know, the privilege that you get as a citizen of the United States, the the privilege to vote, it is a right and a privilege, I have to say, but also like traveling. Many places that I could go to I remember I worked for a semester at sea. I took 4 voyages, a semester at sea, and some people had to get visas and other things. And I was like, oh, there's all these countries where if you're a US citizen, you don't have to do any of that. I'm like, oh my gosh. What's that mean? Or being asked questions showing documentation. I could say, yes, I was not born in the United States, but I could show them my passport, and it was like a big easy check.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:11:06]: And so there was definitely a lot of privilege that I felt that I never take for granted because I used to not have that. And so I always honor that, and I I try to be a good citizen, I think. So

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:18]: I think as American citizens, we often don't have the awareness that, you know, we hold I think it's right now the 7th most powerful passport in the world. There are quite a few ahead now, but that has to do with, you know, being able to enter other nations without applying for a visa or paying for a visa or simply just being allowed access instead of being denied think, puts us in an interesting position.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:11:46]: Yes. It does. It really does. And I'm not sure we talk about this as much as we should in terms of even in higher education or in other places that we should talk about. Is what does that mean for us, the great responsibility that we should think about having the citizenship. There's the privilege, but also this great responsibility that we need to, like, discuss and really engage in and own, and we need to own it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:09]: Let's talk more about responsibility, which is your NASPA board chairship. Every time we've had on a NASPA board chair, the one big theme that I can draw a line through each of you is that you're really occupying a space of stewardship for the organization rather than driving a personal agenda forward. And I think that's a big shift that happened when NASA shifted from electing a president to electing a board chair. But I'm wondering if you can talk about what you're hoping, the board you will lead will be able to achieve across the next year.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:12:40]: I think that's a great question. I've been thinking a lot. You know, when I ran from NASPA board chair for the listeners, I'll remind them that I ran on 3 things. I still am thinking about that. But the first is, and it is not in any order, healthy excellence. That means in terms of, like, what does well-being look like for our profession and not just the students. Right? We love the students, but this one is more us. This is more us as practitioners.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:13:03]: It's time for us to think about how do we thrive in our roles, which I love, given all my work life in NASPA in term and student affairs, right, in terms of this is my profession, has always just been. I chose to be in it. But how do we thrive and be healthy, and how do we think of well-being when we have events that we go to? I mean, when you go to a national conference, it's like, oh, yay. 6 AM till, like, 2 AM. Right? Some people go that route. That is not healthy. You know? And and what does that mean? What does that look like? So even things like that. I really want us to engage in our work, in what we do, both the organization and our profession.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:13:40]: I think the second one is of the mid level. That is our largest as a constituent single constituent. It is the largest membership of our organization. And what does a mid level mean? What competencies? And to break that group down further, right, into, like a mid level could be someone 7 years and someone, like, 28 years in the profession. And I think that's a huge, big gap. And so what does that look like, and how do we both break that down a little bit, and how do we honor the mid level. Right? People are wanna sometimes they're like, I'm happy where I'm at, but I wanna gain different skills. I wanna continue having an amazing life in the work that I do, but what does that mean? But some people in the mid level wanna be like, I wanna become a vice president or I wanna become president.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:14:24]: Right? And what does that mean? Mid level also for me transitions. Do I stay in the field? Do I leave the field? Right? I think that's where we really have to engage our folks. So mid level for me is huge. And then the 3rd piece is and it's so important now is why higher education.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:38]: Yeah. That's a big one for the US.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:14:40]: It is. And the impact of higher education, the impact of student affairs in the purpose of students' lives, in young people's lives, and in countries in the civic health of our nation? And I think the answer is higher education. And I think student affairs is actually the the big the change agent and the why of higher ed. I think it's what we do and what we, as professionals, teach our students. And so those are my big three for NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:08]: Let's touch back on that midlevel piece because I think a lot about to the transitions that can feel very, very large in the midlevel from assistant director to associate director to director to perhaps senior executive director. Each of those levels within the midlevel carry their own transitions, their own responsibility differences, and their own growth. So we I think we tend to look at the mid level as a little bit of a bigger monolith than perhaps it actually is within student affairs. I think it's probably you know, there's smaller pieces within it. But what are you hoping for those mid level professionals

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:15:49]: chunk, but we just call them 1 big, big level. Like, the mid level institute. Okay. That gives literally anyone. I mean, what does that actually mean? And so you I wanna make sure that we'd look at the breakdown of what what that is. And what does that mean for NASPA? I think it's being more intentional, not looking at the size of an event, but saying, you know what? We're gonna have mid level based on up to 10 years of experience, and that's gonna be a smaller group, and that's okay. Right? And we're going to look at the competencies that you need based on that versus, like, the competencies that you need. If you were a director executive director mid level, but only with with 12 years experience, but that's completely different than the previous group.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:16:32]: So it's gonna have to it's gonna have to be that our association, our board, our regions, and even our divisions have to look critically at what we're doing for the mid level because we have lumped them too big, I think. And so it's just like, oh, the mid level. And that's, like, kinda the catchall. It shouldn't be the catchall.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:48]: And some of our mid level professionals don't supervise other professionals but supervise students. Some of our mid level professionals supervise large teams, which can include professionals, graduate students, and undergraduate students. It's it's a wide band. And I think my one major complaint with our development as professionals really throughout my entire career is that there's really a lack of education on how to be a strong supervisor. And if you wanna go find that work, you really have to seek it for yourself, and I'd really love to see us develop more of that for our professionals anyway.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:17:21]: I agree. That's great. See, me too. I'm excited. Gonna jump on the bandwagon. Let let's do this. I Let's go. Let's go.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:17:27]: Let's go. I love it. I think it's if I could really leave anything the mid level is the big question, and I just wanna make sure. I walk around NASPA, and I'm like, you're a mid level. You're a mid level. You're a mid level. And what does that mean?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:41]: Yeah. Absolutely. You also mentioned health and well-being as a priority, for our profession. I think that I've been seeing a real slide in terms of balance or integration with work life as of late. We did okay for some, but not for others in the pandemic. And now that we're coming out the other side, it feels like budgets are, you know, constantly being squeezed. People are being asked to do more with less or more people to jobs for the same amount of pay. So how are you hoping to promote that well-being knowing that there's a there you know, let's name it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:15]: There's been of a bit of a morale hit to the profession as of late.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:19]: Yes. No. I agree. It's I think it was already happening definitely before the pandemic. I think it got exacerbated during the pandemic, and it's still here. I told someone, it's not necessarily the money that you throw at people in terms of making them satisfied at their position. The way that things are, I I get it. If you're an entry level, it's not you're not gonna get 6 figures your 1st year.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:42]: I mean, that's not and even for many, it's not gonna be that way necessarily for for a while.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:47]: Or possibly ever in this profession. Yeah.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:18:49]: Right. Or possibly ever. Thank you. Like, thanks for saying that. And at the end of the day, even if that were that's not necessarily the only thing that's gonna give people job satisfaction. It is being noted for the good work that we do. It doesn't help when you turn on the news and the newspapers, and you're, like, working so hard. You're a resident you're a RCD.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:19:13]: You just stayed up all night helping save a student's life. You know you made an impact, and then you turn on the news and you have people say, let's close down colleges and universities. Like, okay. No. Don't do that. Right? They just did something great. That doesn't help either to work in a field where people are saying they don't trust you. So one is, like, how do we honor and celebrate our staff, our our fantastic staff members.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:19:36]: Right? And we have fantastic staff members. I think too is how do we engage it so that the work doesn't become routine? Because there is a boredom factor to it. It's like the same old, same old. I'm not saying necessarily we're gonna make up a new job for someone, but how does it become exciting? How do we make sure that our staff equitably get opportunities to serve, for example, on different committees? So once it you know, so one day, it'll be your turn to serve on a building project. How exciting is that to be the capital projects? Not necessarily just people with titles. There's gonna be opportunities for everyone in different ways. And, also, because one day, they may wanna become director of housing, and you really can't be director of housing without having some kind of capital experience. Or how do we get a staff member to even rotationally supervise other staff? Because we can't make up staff members.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:20:27]: I get it. But instead of them supervising an undergrad, can we say, hey. This year, you're the one that's gonna supervise the graduate students to get more of that experience? Those are the things. And then, also, what kind of benefits, childcare benefits can we give our staff? Tuition benefits. Not every school does tuition benefits. Partner benefits. You know? Kind of we gotta think creatively to get people noted that these are difficult and transformative jobs and that we need to invest in our people.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:55]: Absolutely. I think one of the most radical things that I've seen happen as of late is, you know, the the state of Washington has their overtime laws that have gone into effect, which I'm very, very pro. And those laws, even for salaried employees, have limits on how many hours you can work per month, but it's requiring those institutions to redefine what a salaried employee is expected to do, and I think that's really good for the field.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:21:19]: Yep. I agree. And, also, the other piece, it's on us too. How do we allow ourselves? How do how do I, vice chancellor, like, just tell people it's okay to not check email every day? Sometimes sometimes I I'll talk for myself. I do that. Right? I check it constantly. And one time, I got really sick, and and I did not check it at all because I just couldn't. I couldn't physically check it.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:21:42]: It would not have been good for me to check it. And then it was fine. The job was fine. My students thrived. It was 2 or 3 days of just really barely, like, looking at my email and barely were really not working. And I realized, okay. Wait a second. It's gonna be okay.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:21:56]: So it's also teaching ourselves. Give ourselves grace, and we're not gonna work we're not gonna make ourselves work and think work 20 4/7.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:03]: And that really comes straight from the top. It has to start with your president empowering your vice chancellor, vice president to do that, and your vice chancellor, vice president really saying, hey. This is the culture we're gonna set for the organization.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:22:15]: I love it. Unless there's an absolute emergency, my boss does not send this email. So, like, he came in to WashU, and he talked about how he doesn't expect he's not going himself going to do, like, email past a certain time. Like, I wasn't there when it happened, but people talk about that. And it really shifted something, like, past 5 or 6 or, you know, not on weekends. It's fantastic. And I thought it was really sharing a vulnerability for him to talk about the fact that he has a life, and he has a family, and that's important.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:40]: And now the 3rd priority you mentioned was really anchoring into the value of higher education. And I think one of the most important things that NASPA does is advocacy in Washington, DC. So I'll give a shout out to the public policy division and also Diana Ali, who is the policy person with one of the policy people, anyway, within NASBA as well as Jill Dunlap. And they do some incredible work to track all sorts of state policies that are impacting higher education. We just saw a weird bill in Utah that is kind of mirroring what had been going on in Florida, which is also wild to me because I don't understand how it's not being challenged as a violation of the First Amendment in more intense ways right now, but that's a whole other conversation. But I'm wondering, Anna, how you envision NASPA telling the story of higher education or advocating for the value in your year as board chair.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:23:31]: No. I think that's great. I you know, I think for me, there's several things that we need to do. The importance of the why of college, one of the reasons why I went to college was to help transform my family's future. Right? And, yes, it is about jobs and careers. One of the big reasons that I went to college. I think if I told my dad I was going to go to college, but not really sure what that would mean, he would have been like, wait. We're gonna pulling in all our money to have you go, see how you do so that the rest of your cousins and your brother could go.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:23:57]: And you're not really sure why your our time and our talent and your time and your money is not gonna I'm like, it would have been unfathomable for my family and for my my background. So I think the why is one of them is the kinds of careers and opportunities for people because of their college degree. When you graduate from college versus when you don't, the wealth accumulation over time, the opportunities is greater. I mean, that is one of the things. But it's not about your major in terms of what your career is going to be. It is about the things that student affairs also does. Right? It's not just one thing. It's about the leadership training that we give them, the empathy that we teach them through experiential things, like being a club and organization president is one way.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:24:42]: Communication skills that we teach them. Right? We engage them to think of differences, like what we have at WashU, dialogue across differences. And what does that mean? To dialogue with someone is something that we in student affairs engage and teach them to live with someone from a completely different background and then to be able to share. Sharing is caring. And then to think about your well-being, right, in different ways. The things that we teach in student affairs allows for an individual to go through college and learn those skills and to be an amazing leader outside in the world, to look at their careers in profound ways. Not just, I'm just gonna work and get my pay, but I'm gonna work. I'm gonna transform.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:25:24]: I'm gonna be a leader. I'm gonna be engaged in community. And a lot of that is because of the 4 years or so that we have taught them in colleges, whether it's a 2 year college or a 4 year college or even, you know, doctoral programs. Right? So I think that we hold the key, and we don't talk about, we don't share those stories. I think student affairs, we are so humble, and we make sure that we lift up our students. But in doing so, I think we've forgotten to lift up the profession itself and explain what we do. We need to explain what we do. I don't think that we should celebrate the fact that our own parents don't know what we do.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:26:00]: My parents don't know what I do. Right? Right? And we and we, yeah, and we laugh, and we celebrate it. Like, this is that career, and it's like, no. That's not good. People know what other people do. We should talk about what we do.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:10]: And I think I'd be one of the very first to say that the degree is important, but it doesn't define the future as much as some of the soft skills do. I think I've shared on the show before, but my bachelor's degree is in music performance, and it's not something that I anchor into daily for the skills that I need in my job.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:26:27]: I should have you sing for us, though. Yeah. I'll be sending.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:31]: Well, I'll share kind of a secret. If you look hard enough, you can find me singing on TikTok and YouTube. But you have to look really hard, and it's not under my real name.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:26:41]: It's kinda funny. I mean, I don't really use those 2 apps as much, but okay. What is that?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:47]: What was your bachelor's in honor?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:26:49]: International visits, actually. And I and I'd use those skills that I learned today. I've always used it. I've learned so many things about balance sheets and what matters. And it's funny because when I say that, it's not necessarily that money matters. It's actually what matters in terms of the values that you put into time and treasure. And so that's what I learned. But so I utilize it a lot in my in my daily work, but I'm not in a business career.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:27:15]: Does that if that makes sense?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:17]: Are there any words of wisdom, wishes, or thoughts that you'd like to share with the NASPA membership in general?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:27:24]: Someone I learned this as a faculty member from a participant at the last APIDA Leadership Institute. And I wanna say, I remember this person said, and I wish I would I could know who it is, but I wanna honor the person who who said this. She said someone told her once to fall in love with her staff, and I've been thinking about that a lot. And for me, for my words of wisdom would be fall in love with the field. Remember why you chose it because we chose this field, and fall in love with it. And if you're thinking that, you know, I'm having a really hard time right now. I fell in love with it once, but I'm thinking of a breakup or a break. That's okay.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:28:05]: But then find support and help about that and think through, do you stay with it, which is fine. Do you leave it, which is also fine. But if you're gonna stay with it, learn, and relearn how to fall in love with it. Because for me, that's what helped me thrive every day. For some of us, falling in love with it means really loving our student. But for others, it really is the actual work, itself. And so whatever it is, remember it and fall in love with it again because that's ultimately what's gonna keep you engaged and thriving in this profession.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:37]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:43]: Thanks so much, Joe. Glad to be back in the NASPA world. And this week, I wanna share a few policy updates that we've heard from our policy division at NASPA. Many of you may have heard that president Biden has issued another continuing resolution keeping the government funded through March. And so at this point, Congress has not reached a compromise to formalize a spending bill for the 2023 fiscal year. For the 2023 fiscal year, as funding expired at the end of September, the Department of Education held negotiated rulemaking sessions on federal Title IX program integrity, and institutional quality and trio eligibility in the month of January. During the subcommittee session on program funding funding involving funding connected to student meal plans and including books and supplies costs as a part of tuition and fees. Several members of the trio subcommittee expressed reservations about expanding eligibility for college prep trio programs to undocumented students due to tenuous political climate due to the tenuous political climate.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:58]: NASPA believes that extending trio programs to undocumented students is an important step in setting a federal precedent for equitable college access. The Office of Postsecondary Education is seeking comments from institutions on effective strategies for college student mental health and substance use and substance use disorders. This request includes how higher education institutions have transformed campus cultures with inclusive support strategies, how state agencies have supported behavioral health, identified challenges in implementing solutions, and information to guide future work of the Department of Education. Comments are due by February 25th. The Department of Education has also issued a request for information to assess sexual violence on campus. The RFI seeks responses on best practices for sexual assault prevention and response in education in educational institution in educational institutions. Topics include forming response teams, providing survivor resources, preventing and responding to sexual and dating violence, developing sex education and staff training programs, culturally responsive support approaches, engaging communities in prevention efforts and federal support of these initiatives. Comments are due by March 11th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]: Finally, the Biden administration has highlighted key topical issues in relation to priorities for the 2024 presidential election year. Earlier this month marked the 51st the 51st anniversary of Roe v Wade in and the White House and the White House task force on reproductive health care access released a fact sheet on new actions to increase contraception care coverage. This includes a continued stance that the administration will support the FDA the FDA approval of medication abortion, which is currently which is under current scrutiny by the Supreme Court. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you wanna give back. Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:46]: I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:19]: Chris, we always appreciate you sharing what's going on in and around in NASPA. And, Anna, we have reached our lightning round, so I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to roll?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:30]: I'm ready.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:30]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:36]: Beyonce's new song.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:37]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:40]: A doctor.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:41]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:43]: Doris Ching.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:45]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:47]: Oh my gosh. It is Elizabeth Witt's The Tapestry, the Culture book that I can't remember the actual title, but love, love, love that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:55]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:33:58]: Oh my goodness. That is a good one. Is it awful to say Dexter?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:03]: Everyone had their thing. That was a that was a time in our lives. Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:34:11]: I think this one, actually. I did. I'm not a I have to say I'm not a podcast person, but I was like, I'm gonna listen to this one because this is my field.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:19]: We appreciate that. And then finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:34:24]: Oh, just saying hi to personal is my family. Thank you so much for your support. I appreciate you. And then my professional, my chosen NASPA family, you are all amazing. I love you all, and I can't wait to see you at all the future events conferences, including my speech when I take the gavel at NASPA in Seattle.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:42]: Anna, we know you're gonna have an incredibly busy year ahead, but if anyone in the membership would like to reach you personally, how can they find you?

Dr. Anna Gonzalez [00:34:49]: Oh, sure. They can actually go into my social media, Instagram, AKGonzales 327, and also my email, anna.gonzales, with a z at the end, atwustl, w u s t l, dotedu.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:01]: Anna, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Thank you. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at essay voices at NASPA .org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:34]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support support