A panel discussion on 37signals' first ONCE product, the launch of Campfire ("pay for it once, install it, and run it on your own server"). Ian Landsman, Tyler Tringas, and Justin Jackson share what they expected to happen before the launch, what did happen, and what it means for indie hackers and bootstrappers who want to launch SaaS companies. Is this the end of SaaS?

Links:

• Once landing page
• Campfire sales page
• DHH's tweet: "ONCE/Campfire hasn't even been for sale for a week, but we've already sold more than quarter of a million dollars."
• Tyler Tringas's video

I want to hear your thoughts:

If you listen to the episode, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts:

• Can you think of a low-price, pay-once, on-prem software product that's succeeded? (The only one I could think of was ​Statamic CMS​)
• Do you think a different Once product might have made more sales? What kinds of products do you think might work?
• Did you buy Campfire? What did you buy it for? Are you using it as a chat tool for your company?
• Other thoughts on our discussion.

👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​

🐦 Reply on Twitter

Timestamps:

• (00:00:00) - "I appreciate that 37signals exists."
• (00:01:58) - 37signals' influence in the bootstrapped startup space
• (00:03:58) - What did we expect from the Campfire/Once launch?
• (00:06:23) - DHH's tweet on Campfire sales – is that what we expected?
• (00:09:49) - The Once model, philosophy, and Campfire's history
• (00:17:21) - Misconceptions about what IT Managers want
• (00:19:49) - How Campfire was marketed and positioned
• (00:26:01) - Basecamp's PR, virality, and audience 
• (00:28:29) - Can you do customer research to validate demand?
• (00:32:01) - The volume of sales as a success metric
• (00:33:33) - The Potential for Campfire's expansion
• (00:37:37) - Distribution opportunities with hosting providers
• 00:39:31) - The intuition behind HEY Email's success
• (00:43:42) - The Value of an Audience and Customer Overlap
• (00:45:12) - The Compounding Advantage of Longevity
• (00:49:54) - Scorecard

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
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★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Fast Company called Acquired "the #1 tech podcast sensation." I've been a huge fan of the show for years. So, I was surprised when they contacted me and wanted to switch to Transistor for podcast hosting!

Since switching, they've had a breakout year. Their clips started showing up everywhere on my social media feed; they had chart-topping episodes on Nintendo, Nike, and Costco, and they interviewed the CEOs of NVIDIA, Uber, and Charlie Munger. 

And this was the year that Ben Gilbert and David Rosenthal (the co-hosts) both went full-time on the podcast. Podcasting is now their job.

With all of that activity, I thought Build your SaaS listeners would be interested in hearing my interview with David about their entire story:

• How they got started, how they built momentum over time,
• how they were able to double their audience every single year since 2015, 
• And how that momentum ended up Attracting an incredibly valuable audience that they've now monetized through sponsorships. 

This interview has so much that podcasters, creators, and indie entrepreneurs will find super helpful and inspirational.

🔥 Key moments:

• (0:00:00) – A breakout year for Acquired
• (0:01:45) – What is the Acquired podcast about?
• (0:02:40) – How the Acquired podcast got started (origin story)
• (0:07:23) – How Ben and David's co-hosting relationship works
• (0:09:00) – The 3 big goals that made them want to start Acquired
• (0:11:38) – How did listeners respond to the first episodes?
• (0:14:55) – The best reason to start a podcast
• (0:15:30) – The secret to how Acquired attracts new listeners
• (0:18:13) – How they got featured in Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Pocket Casts, and Spotify
• (0:24:18) – How they got their first podcast sponsors (and why it wasn't about making money)
• (0:27:58) – Why they give their sponsors a white glove, 11-star experience
• (0:34:13) – How to get more word-of-mouth referrals for your podcast
• (0:37:00) – Acquired's unconventional approach to podcast ads
• (0:41:54) – How the Acquired podcast's growth machine works
• (0:48:05) – Why their NVIDIA podcast episode went viral
• (0:50:48) – Why they switched from Libsyn to Transistor for podcast hosting
• (0:57:18) – The rise of the "independent, boutique podcaster."
• (1:02:27) – "The future of podcasting doesn't belong to Gimlet, NYT, NPR..."
• (1:06:22) – David Rosenthal's advice to aspiring podcasters

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

The whole team is on the show! Jon, Helen, Jason, Josh, and Justin are on the mics to discuss our recent team retreat to Nashville, Tennessee. If you're wondering what a retreat looks like for a remote team, you'll get a lot out of this episode. We also reveal some of our exploits in Music City:

"Going to a Tiki Bar is usually a mistake."

Highlights

• (00:10) - Welcome
• (01:15) - Highlights of our retreat in Nashville
• (13:00) - It's not easy to get everyone together
• (20:31) - Our schedule for the retreat
• (26:42) - Electrolytes are a good idea
• (32:08) - Things to improve or tips for other teams

"For 51 weeks, our small team works efficiently. Our team retreat week is a culmination of celebrations, milestones, birthdays, and holidays we might have missed. It's special to condense these moments into one week and see everyone in person to celebrate our achievements from the previous year." – Helen

Links:

• Photos from our trip to Nashville. 
• PhotoWalk Nashville service.
• SurfOffice Location Finder: "Discover the optimal location to meet with your remote team. Results are sorted by average travel time per person, number of stopovers, and overall price."
• How to plan a team retreat: Planning a retreat can be a daunting task, so we wanted to share our learnings in the hopes that it’ll be helpful for other remote teams out there.

Takeaways:

• The city you choose for your retreat will significantly influence the team's productivity and leisure activities.
• Be intentional and set aside time for planning and product discussions.
• A retreat is a great time for a remote team to celebrate milestones and achievements.
• Have a balance between work activities and fun activities.
• Simple activities like games or cards can be as fulfilling as fancy events.

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Justin catches up with his old internet friend Paul Jarvis. Today, Paul co-founded Fathom Analytics with Jack Ellis: a simple alternative to Google Analytics. Paul is also the author of the book "Company of One," which has influenced a whole generation of indie entrepreneurs (and has been reviewed by Cal Newport, Chris Guillebeau, Ben Chestnut, Tiago Forte, and more). Previously, Justin and Paul did a weekly mastermind, where they supported and encouraged each other around our indie businesses. They decided to do a catch-up call and recorded it so you could listen in. 👍

Highlights:

• (00:10) - Intro
• (02:20) - Being off the internet
• (03:58) - What's a typical day for Paul?
• (06:21) - Looking back at our Mastermind call
• (08:08) - There's no beginning and no end
• (10:36) - Things that are out of your control affect your business
• (13:08) - Does Justin's surfing metaphor make sense to a surfer?
• (16:11) - How would you start an indie business in 2023?
• (22:05) - You've got to get in motion
• (25:08) - Using products in your category for a long time
• (27:53) - Is there still any room in Saas?
• (31:56) - The act of making the bet
• (38:45) - Is freelancing still viable in 2023?
• (42:55) - Company design is lifestyle design
• (45:00) - Worrying about being stagnant
• (47:20) - How do you handle customer feature requests?
• (52:08) - It's ok to be late to a shift in the market
• (58:24) - Caring is an indie advantage
• (01:05:05) - Collaboration is what gets us anywhere

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

Links:

• Fathom Analytics (get $10 off)
• Book: Company of One
• Article: How to Start a Mastermind
• Wayback Machine: Mint Analytics
• Article: Why we moved from courses to SaaS
• Self-Publishing Hangout: Paul Jarvis, Nathan Barry, Sacha Greif, Justin Jackson

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Tim reached out after the Aaron Francis episode: "I wanted to pitch you on the idea of coming on the podcast and sharing my journey of building side projects for the last decade while raising a family. I can also share the guardrails I put in place before finally going full-time on T.LY."

Highlights:

• (00:12) - Welcome
• (01:18) - Who is Tim Leland?
• (03:25) - What guardrails did you put in place?
• (06:29) - What's the sales funnel?
• (08:18) - Family as a motivator
• (16:26) - How would you describe your effort during this process?
• (20:11) - What about family boundaries?
• (23:30) - How do you manage your thoughts?
• (31:20) - How have you been able to manage the effort level?
• (34:49) - The pressure of cutting the cord from your job
• (38:21) - What's it been like being full time on t.ly?
• (40:04) - What's your SEO magic touch?

Links:

• Tim's startup: T.LY
• Tim's Twitter
• Tim's blog: tools for marketers

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

This week Jon and Justin are joined by Marcella Chamorro. Previously, she worked in startup marketing but has recently transitioned to coaching founders and teams. We discussed how startup founders and their team members can realize their full potential.

Here are some highlights:

• (00:24) - Introducing Marcella
• (03:08) - How do you define your coaching?
• (05:15) - What do you see with rising stars?
• (09:42) - Do you navigate team dynamics or individual work?
• (14:45) - Any advice for founder's stress
• (23:27) - Personal lives do come to work
• (33:02) - The ability to have difficult conversations
• (47:23) - A lot of value in speaking to someone who's not you
• (50:44) - How can people reach out Marcella?

Quote:"I think people who choose to do coaching want to be really good at what they do and they want to have a really good life. They are looking to optimize their time on planet Earth."  – Marcella

Links:

• Subscribe to Marcella's newsletter
• Marcella’s coaching website
• Check out Marcella's articles
• Marcella on LinkedIn
• Marcella on Twitter

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this podcast episode, Michele Hansen (Geocodio) gives us an update on Section 174 and provides her take on "bootstrapping with kids."

Michele explains you can be a part of the Small Software Business Alliance, and fight Section 174. If you're in the USA, please contact Congress!

In the second half of the episode, Justin and Michele talk about the challenges of balancing starting a business while you have young kids. For more on this topic, check out the last episode with Aaron Francis.

For more context on Section 174, check out our previous episode with Michele.

• (00:12) - Welcome
• (01:44) - Quick refresher on section 174
• (05:42) - Updates since last episode
• (09:09) - You can still help raise awareness
• (14:03) - What's happening next?
• (17:35) - How does this work on the accounting side?
• (20:24) - Anything else people can do?
• (22:41) - What advice do you give to people with families wanting to start a business?
• (26:44) - Did you try a few things on the side?
• (29:04) - Definition of success at the start
• (31:20) - Developing a business while raising a baby
• (35:13) - Survivorship bias in stories from new parents
• (37:52) - What should you consider when starting a business?
• (45:39) - Avoid magical thinking
• (51:44) - Some things are hard to think about until you experience them

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this episode, Justin speaks with Aaron Francis about being a new parent and trying to bootstrap a startup. Aaron argued the other side of Justin's tweet thread: "Wait until your kids are older to start a company." Aaron is well-positioned to talk about this because he has twins and is also bootstrapping Hammerstone with his co-founder Colleen. The whole conversation is a nuanced take on the topic and full of important insights, especially on:

• the risks involved (especially if you're not working a full-time job)
• the kind of foundation (mentally, financially, emotionally, relationally) you need to be able to take the risk

Highlights from this episode:

• (00:12) - Welcome Aaron
• (01:10) - Topic introduction
• (02:22) - What's Aaron's story?
• (05:28) - What is a maximum effort era?
• (10:56) - What are you willing to sacrifice?
• (15:17) - What's your daily routine like?
• (17:30) - Context matters in all of this
• (28:01) - Are you sacrificing social connections?
• (30:53) - Blind spots can affect you on your journey
• (33:23) - Pain vs risk
• (37:43) - Being on the same page as your partner
• (41:47) - Going to therapy sooner
• (43:51) - Building a good foundation
• (48:51) - Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats
• (53:54) - Sometimes it's easier to try getting a better job
• (01:02:42) - Where can people reach Aaron?

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Jon and Justin welcome Joshua Anderton to the Transistor team! Josh is an amazingly talented full-stack web developer (Laravel, Rails, Tailwind CSS, Alpine, and more!) He's been helping us as a part-time contractor since Oct 2022, and we're excited to have him on board full-time! In this episode, we discuss why we hired another person and how we think about hiring at Transistor.

• (00:28) - 150!
• (01:32) - Trials into paid customers
• (09:22) - Hiring philosophy
• (27:45) - Hiring Josh
• (31:39) - Hiring people you know
• (40:35) - Product updates
• (43:54) - Patreon supporter thanks

Links:

• Joshua's personal site
• Joshua's podcast: Getting to Ramen
• Jason Cohen's article
• Acquired.fm is now on Transistor!

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Michele Hansen (co-founder of Geocodio) is raising the alarm about Section 174. This legislation could dramatically increase your tax bill this year if you're a small software company in the USA. Michele is organizing a response through the Small Software Business Alliance.

👉 ACT NOW:

1. Sign up for Michele's list
2. US citizens: tweet and call your Senators today. They need to know that this is a small business issue and that small businesses in their state are hurt by Section 174.
3. Share the ssballiance.org URL with your founder friends.

In this episode:

• (01:37) - What is section 174?
• (04:42) - What's the benefit to the government for this change?
• (09:03) - Section 174 is bad for every company that builds software
• (11:28) - Disclaimer: We're not tax accountants
• (12:21) - What is the SSB Alliance?
• (14:05) - Small businesses are the cute puppies of the policy world
• (22:05) - A practical example
• (25:30) - This is going to impact small software businesses
• (28:36) - What can we do?

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Jon's back from his first real vacation in years. In this episode, we discuss how we've been removing inactive accounts on Transistor, SVB, Section 174, Revin is shutting down their Merchant of Record service, SaaS sales tax compliance:

• (00:37) - Jon in vacation mode
• (02:35) - Kicking off inactive accounts
• (04:35) - Silicon Valley Bank
• (06:11) - What is Mercury bank?
• (13:21) - Section 174 in the USA
• (19:23) - Sales tax compliance update
• (26:14) - What could we do?
• (32:31) - Patreon integration update
• (35:15) - MyPodStudios
• (36:52) - Patreon Thanks

Links:

• Matt Levin's excellent summary of the Silicon Valley Bank run
• Ian Landsman: "This is why I don't use startup-friendly banks (Mercury, etc)"
• Section 174: join ssballiance.org
• Revin has shut down its Merchant of Record service
• Flurly (another Merchant of Record) was shut down by Stripe

From the Revin email:

“The most relevant reason [we are closing] is that the Merchant of Record model is too risky for both sellers and the MOR operator. Sellers bear the risk of platform shutdown (as seen in the example of Flurly & Stripe), and the MOR operator could potentially become involved in illicit or illegal activities quickly, which could lead to all sorts of problems.

Furthermore, it became increasingly clear that the Merchant of Record model primarily appeals to small-scale sellers or businesses with questionable and high-risk business models. This presents a significant challenge as we strive to move up the market.

The recent change in Stripe's risk behavior has caused us to experience issues with keeping Stripe accounts live.”

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Dan Buda
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★