For Kj Swanson, an upbringing in Christian purity culture did not metabolize as trauma. It wasn’t until her queer awakening that she realized just how much it aligned with her identity. As an academic working in theology, Kj has always been interested in the heart of matters. This week, she discusses with John the various ways this commitment to meaning permeates her entire personality, including an emerging language signaling her place apart from compulsory sexuality. Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
 Music by Mason Neely
 Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll Contact: [email protected]
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For our first guest in years, John speaks with his friend Caleb Williams, a fellow psychotherapist in Seattle. Over dinner, they discuss Caleb’s affinity to the British psychoanalyst Neville Symington, their thoughts on narcissism and the neediness of masculinity. Less of an interview and more a study in the relationship of friend/colleague, John and Caleb reminisce about their own camaraderie and make meaning of the current discourse as two oldest brothers grappling with their own ambivalence. Contact: [email protected]
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/
 Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
 Music by Mason Neely
 Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

In the premiere of season five, our host John Totten checks in with co-producer Mason Neely as they reflect on the last season of Between Us, the hiatus that followed, and the boundaries of the therapeutic purview. In a meandering conversation, John and Mason look inward at their own creative and family lives and forward to the upcoming season, a collection of dialogues and reflections that, in spite of an aimless production, emerged as far more thematic than intended. 
Contact: [email protected]
Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/
Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely
Music by Mason Neely
Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

In the finale of our fourth season, John discusses therapeutic stance with Dr. Anton Hart who views openness as a key component of healing in the treatment room, especially in regard to societal trauma. Dr. Hart makes the case that foreknowledge is in opposition to curiosity and that curiosity is necessary to introduce new prospects to the therapeutic relationship. As a psychoanalyst, teacher and co-producer of the documentary Black Psychoanalysts Speak, Anton has a unique perspective on the usefulness of our language and how important it is to embrace complexity in a process that, when conducted with a posture of openness and curiosity, leads down endless paths of possibility. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: [email protected] Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

Carlos Padrón personifies the concept of psychoanalysis as applied philosophy. As a Venezuelan living in New York, he has witnessed both the horrors of the pandemic and the projections of the immigrant experience. Both phenomena challenge our American fantasies of purity and pit us face to face with that which unsettles us as the uncanny takes form. In a broad-ranging interview recorded last summer, Carlos discusses the political potentiality of psychoanalysis, its invitation to new possibilities, and how it shatters the illusion of ahistorical origins. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: [email protected] Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

Dr. Jonathan Shedler is dissatisfied. As both a researcher and a practitioner, he is frustrated with the misinformation that permeates the counseling field, much of it promulgated by an academia with little clinical experience. His contrarian voice is best known for his deconstruction of so-called “evidence-based therapy,” its research methods, and his staunch defense of psychodynamic psychotherapy. Since a seminal paper, a decade ago, he has separated himself from the psychological establishment, to educate everyday clinicians and the lay public on the tenets of psychoanalysis, the importance of the working alliance, and how the therapeutic relationship doesn’t require an instruction manual in order to transform lives. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: [email protected] Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

As we investigate the role of the therapist-as-citizen, John pauses to interview his own therapist, Lane Gerber, about their relationship and what it means to be useful- useful to our patients, useful to academia, and useful to our interpersonal worlds. Lane describes his experience growing up in a community of Jewish immigrants, what it was like to rebel against his family’s plan for his life, and how he made use of his time learning from renowned theorists Carl Rogers and Heinz Kohut as a young psychology student. In our first instance of a patient interviewing their own therapist, we explore the dynamics of therapist’s disclosure and what it means to each member of this particular dyad. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: [email protected] Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

This week we continue our conversation with Dr. Medria Connolly and Dr. Bryan Nichols on the psychological case for reparations. From white privilege and its deconstruction to the fantasy of American democracy, Dr. Connolly and Dr. Nichols shed light on some of our more provocative cultural issues, making it clear that we are not living in one America, that we have unfinished business as a society, and that even in their own academic origin stories, the systems in this country are replete with playing fields that require expansion. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: [email protected] Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

Dr. Bryan Nichols and Dr. Medria Connolly had collaborated for several decades when their discovery of Ta-Nehisi Coates shifted the course of their work to making the psychological case for reparations to the descendants of African-American slaves. As psychologists of color, they were intimately aware of the ghosts that haunt our society, even within their own field. What they discovered was a rich potential for healing that extends to Americans of all races, but not without the difficult confrontation of a vile history and the stubborn defenses of white America. Part one of a two-part discussion. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: [email protected] Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

It’s impossible to watch the news without witnessing the horrors sustained by people of color in America. The psychological traumas take a physical toll as well. Never has that been more clear than the covid-19 pandemic which has lowered African-American lifespan more than any other group of people. Ashley McGirt is a therapist and educator who works at the intersection of Black bodies and Black minds as a hospice counselor. Her experiences in a nursing facility and her dedication to her community led her to start the Washington Therapy Fund, a nonprofit that pays for the mental health treatment of Black folks in Washington state. She sat down with John last autumn to discuss that work and how she has taken the tragedies and traumas that have effected her family and community and turned those into action and advocacy. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: [email protected] Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

Between Us returns with Dr. Usha Tummala-Narra, an author and professor of counseling at Boston College. Dr. Tummala-Narra is our first guest in a series of interviews that ask the question, “Does psychotherapy address what is happening in the news?” Psychoanalysis has not always welcomed issues of culture and diversity. She believes there are theories that need updating and makes the case for a deeper investigation into how cultural narrative is experienced both consciously and unconsciously by the patient. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: [email protected] Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll